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Mother of Eleanor Peshale
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fowler...@gmail.com
Dec 21, 2021, 8:23:54 AM12/21/21
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Dear Newsgroup
The record of the inquisition post mortem for Elizabeth Hopton held on 3 October 1564 states as follows:
"Hopton, Elizabeth, ob. 3 Jan. 6 Eliz. - Inq.at Salop 3 Oct. 6 Eliz. - Salop - John Hopton, s. & h. of his father & mother, aet. 50 years".
"Inquisitiones post mortem," The Genealogist 29 (New Series 1913); digital images, Internet Archive (https://archive.org/) 123.
This would appear to relate to Elizabeth née Wolryche, widow of Edward Hopton, and daughter of Humphrey Wolryche and Eleanor Peshale (see the pedigree of Hopton of Hopton, and Canon Frome, co. Hereford in the Visitation of Shropshire, II 256-259).
Marlon Lewis (without citing a source) estimates the date of marriage for Edward Hopton and Elizabeth Wolryche as 1524. If the age of 50 for John Hopton (born c. 1514) given in the inquisition is remotely accurate, the estimated date should be much earlier which, in turn, brings into question his estimated date for the marriage of Humphrey Wolryche and Eleanor Peshale (1504) (https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p2986.htm#i89686).
Eleanor Peshale was the daughter of Humphrey Peshale (died 1498), a relationship confirmed by the 1515-1518 TNA case record:
"Plaintiffs: John Blount, esquire, son and heir of Thomas Blount, knight, and Katherine, his wife, granddaughter and heir of Humphrey Peshall, esquire. Defendants: Humphrey Wolriche and Eleanor, his wife, Hugh, son of Joan Sandford (Sawford), and Richard Alesop, and Elizabeth, his wife. Subject: Detention of deeds relating to the manors of Knightley, Hopton, Theyne, Blythwood, Little Onn, Caldon, and Waterfall, messuages and land there, and one-third of the manor of Allstonefield, late of the said Humphrey, father of the said Eleanor, Joan, and Elizabeth. Staffordshire, Shropshire".
The National Archives (www.discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk), Blount v Wolriche: 1515-1518: TNA C 1/385/1.
The original pleadings are available at Anglo-American Legal Tradition but I am unable to read the images which are very faint.
The inquisitions post mortem taken after the death of Humphrey Peshale show that he had two wives, the first not known and the second Lettice Harcourt. He had a son Hugh Peshale by his first marriage who predeceased his father and whose daughter Katherine, by then married to John Blount, was 21 or more at the date of the inquisition (1502). The inquisitions also confirm that Humphrey had a son Richard Peshale by Lettice Harcourt born c. 1498 (aged 3 in 1502).
Cal. IPM, Henry VII 2 (1915): 122, 369-370 and History and genealogy of the Pearsall family in England and America at p. 747 (which includes details of the IPM vol. 16, no. 9), available on Ancestry.com.
It is also perhaps of note that there was some doubt about the findings of the inquisitions which, if traversed, would have led to John Blount obtaining custody of the lands of Humphrey Peshale (C.P.R. 1494-1509, 351).
There do not appear to be any firm dates for the birth and first marriage of Lettice Harcourt. Her brother Robert Harcourt was born c. 1468, 19 at the time of the inquisition post mortem for his father, John Harcourt (3 November 1487). John Harcourt was born c. 1450 (20 in 1470) and died on 26 June 1484. Cal. IPM, Henry VII 1, no. 329.
Is there any evidence that confirms that Eleanor Peshale (and her sisters) were the daughters of Lettice Harcourt, rather than children of the first marriage of Humphrey Peshale? A timeline for Lettice which leads to the birth of a great-grandson c. 1514 or great-great-grandson for John Harcourt looks very tight, the more so if the births of the daughters are not distanced from the birth of the son Richard in 1498. It is also perhaps worth noting that one of the parties to the 1515-1518 case was a grandson, Hugh son of Joan Sandford. I accept that this query is predicated primarily on the accuracy of the 1564 inquisition summary for Elizabeth Hopton where the age of the son John may be materially misstated.
Oliver Fowler
The record of the inquisition post mortem for Elizabeth Hopton held on 3 October 1564 states as follows:
"Hopton, Elizabeth, ob. 3 Jan. 6 Eliz. - Inq.at Salop 3 Oct. 6 Eliz. - Salop - John Hopton, s. & h. of his father & mother, aet. 50 years".
"Inquisitiones post mortem," The Genealogist 29 (New Series 1913); digital images, Internet Archive (https://archive.org/) 123.
This would appear to relate to Elizabeth née Wolryche, widow of Edward Hopton, and daughter of Humphrey Wolryche and Eleanor Peshale (see the pedigree of Hopton of Hopton, and Canon Frome, co. Hereford in the Visitation of Shropshire, II 256-259).
Marlon Lewis (without citing a source) estimates the date of marriage for Edward Hopton and Elizabeth Wolryche as 1524. If the age of 50 for John Hopton (born c. 1514) given in the inquisition is remotely accurate, the estimated date should be much earlier which, in turn, brings into question his estimated date for the marriage of Humphrey Wolryche and Eleanor Peshale (1504) (https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p2986.htm#i89686).
Eleanor Peshale was the daughter of Humphrey Peshale (died 1498), a relationship confirmed by the 1515-1518 TNA case record:
"Plaintiffs: John Blount, esquire, son and heir of Thomas Blount, knight, and Katherine, his wife, granddaughter and heir of Humphrey Peshall, esquire. Defendants: Humphrey Wolriche and Eleanor, his wife, Hugh, son of Joan Sandford (Sawford), and Richard Alesop, and Elizabeth, his wife. Subject: Detention of deeds relating to the manors of Knightley, Hopton, Theyne, Blythwood, Little Onn, Caldon, and Waterfall, messuages and land there, and one-third of the manor of Allstonefield, late of the said Humphrey, father of the said Eleanor, Joan, and Elizabeth. Staffordshire, Shropshire".
The National Archives (www.discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk), Blount v Wolriche: 1515-1518: TNA C 1/385/1.
The original pleadings are available at Anglo-American Legal Tradition but I am unable to read the images which are very faint.
The inquisitions post mortem taken after the death of Humphrey Peshale show that he had two wives, the first not known and the second Lettice Harcourt. He had a son Hugh Peshale by his first marriage who predeceased his father and whose daughter Katherine, by then married to John Blount, was 21 or more at the date of the inquisition (1502). The inquisitions also confirm that Humphrey had a son Richard Peshale by Lettice Harcourt born c. 1498 (aged 3 in 1502).
Cal. IPM, Henry VII 2 (1915): 122, 369-370 and History and genealogy of the Pearsall family in England and America at p. 747 (which includes details of the IPM vol. 16, no. 9), available on Ancestry.com.
It is also perhaps of note that there was some doubt about the findings of the inquisitions which, if traversed, would have led to John Blount obtaining custody of the lands of Humphrey Peshale (C.P.R. 1494-1509, 351).
There do not appear to be any firm dates for the birth and first marriage of Lettice Harcourt. Her brother Robert Harcourt was born c. 1468, 19 at the time of the inquisition post mortem for his father, John Harcourt (3 November 1487). John Harcourt was born c. 1450 (20 in 1470) and died on 26 June 1484. Cal. IPM, Henry VII 1, no. 329.
Is there any evidence that confirms that Eleanor Peshale (and her sisters) were the daughters of Lettice Harcourt, rather than children of the first marriage of Humphrey Peshale? A timeline for Lettice which leads to the birth of a great-grandson c. 1514 or great-great-grandson for John Harcourt looks very tight, the more so if the births of the daughters are not distanced from the birth of the son Richard in 1498. It is also perhaps worth noting that one of the parties to the 1515-1518 case was a grandson, Hugh son of Joan Sandford. I accept that this query is predicated primarily on the accuracy of the 1564 inquisition summary for Elizabeth Hopton where the age of the son John may be materially misstated.
Oliver Fowler
fowler...@gmail.com
Dec 21, 2021, 1:33:24 PM12/21/21
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The inquisition post mortem for Richard Peshale (Persall) may shed some further light on the matter. The details are contained in The Parshall Family, A.D. 870-1913 : a collection of historical records and notes to accompany the Parshall pedigree by Horace Field Parshall (1915, F. Edwards, London) at p. 109:
Sir Humphrey's son Richard died in 1520, as shown by the following : 'Inquisition taken at Brewood, co. Staff. 17 Nov. 16 Henry VIII. (1524) to enquire after the death of Richard Persall. The jurors say that Richard Pessall was seized of a messuage and lands in Stafford borough. The said Richard died 10 August, 12 Henry VIII. (1520) and Richard Appulby, gent., son of Joan sister of Humfrey Pessall father of said Richard and Alice Lytelton, widow, daughter of Katherin, sister of the said Humfrey Pessall are next of kin of said Richard and his heirs and Richard Appulby is aged 60 years and Alice is aged 60 years. John Blunt Esq. has taken the issues and profits of the lands since Richard's death, but by what right the jurors know not'.
If Eleanor (Peshale) Wolryche, Joan (Peshale) Sandford and Elizabeth (Peshale) Alsop had been the sisters of Richard, would not they or their descendants have been the heirs of Richard?
Oliver Fowler
Sir Humphrey's son Richard died in 1520, as shown by the following : 'Inquisition taken at Brewood, co. Staff. 17 Nov. 16 Henry VIII. (1524) to enquire after the death of Richard Persall. The jurors say that Richard Pessall was seized of a messuage and lands in Stafford borough. The said Richard died 10 August, 12 Henry VIII. (1520) and Richard Appulby, gent., son of Joan sister of Humfrey Pessall father of said Richard and Alice Lytelton, widow, daughter of Katherin, sister of the said Humfrey Pessall are next of kin of said Richard and his heirs and Richard Appulby is aged 60 years and Alice is aged 60 years. John Blunt Esq. has taken the issues and profits of the lands since Richard's death, but by what right the jurors know not'.
If Eleanor (Peshale) Wolryche, Joan (Peshale) Sandford and Elizabeth (Peshale) Alsop had been the sisters of Richard, would not they or their descendants have been the heirs of Richard?
Oliver Fowler
Douglas Richardson
Dec 21, 2021, 7:12:06 PM12/21/21
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Oliver ~
As you have noted, the IPM of Richard Peshale taken in 1524 stipulates that his heirs were his two first cousins, children of his Peshale aunts. This was doubtless because Richard's sisters, Eleanor, Joan, and Elizabeth Peshale, were his heirs of the half-blood. Another heir of the half-blood to Richard Peshale would be his great-nephew, John Blount, Esq. In this time period, heirs of the half-blood were excluded from inheritance, which practice commenced back in the reign of King John.
Given this evidence, it would appear that Eleanor, Joan, and Elizabeth Peshale were the children of Humphrey Perhsale, Esq. (died 1498), by his 1st unknown wife, not by his 2nd wife, Lettice Harcourt.
I trust this answers your question.
Douglas Richardson
As you have noted, the IPM of Richard Peshale taken in 1524 stipulates that his heirs were his two first cousins, children of his Peshale aunts. This was doubtless because Richard's sisters, Eleanor, Joan, and Elizabeth Peshale, were his heirs of the half-blood. Another heir of the half-blood to Richard Peshale would be his great-nephew, John Blount, Esq. In this time period, heirs of the half-blood were excluded from inheritance, which practice commenced back in the reign of King John.
Given this evidence, it would appear that Eleanor, Joan, and Elizabeth Peshale were the children of Humphrey Perhsale, Esq. (died 1498), by his 1st unknown wife, not by his 2nd wife, Lettice Harcourt.
I trust this answers your question.
Douglas Richardson
Darrell E. Larocque
Dec 21, 2021, 9:42:18 PM12/21/21
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I have been working on Sybil (Pierrepoint) de Ufford and I have questions regarding the timeline from her back to Isabel (le Strange of Blackmere) Lovel regarding ages. Could you look at it for me and offer any assistance (link to the thread here is below)?
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/WfMi1rOFsQY/m/xep_rJ6kCgAJ
Thank you so much!
Darrell E. Larocque
fowler...@gmail.com
Dec 21, 2021, 10:25:35 PM12/21/21
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It does indeed. Thank you for your reply and the explanation.
Oliver Fowler
Johnny Brananas
Dec 22, 2021, 1:05:23 PM12/22/21
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https://www.google.com/books/edition/Notes_and_Queries/Y6AgAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22humphrey+peshall%22&pg=PA204&printsec=frontcover
Johnny Brananas
Dec 22, 2021, 1:44:04 PM12/22/21
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fowler...@gmail.com
Dec 23, 2021, 6:16:55 AM12/23/21
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Oliver Fowler
Johnny Brananas
Dec 23, 2021, 1:51:36 PM12/23/21
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