list test
Chris Elmquist
seen any new traffic for a month, last was a post from Norberto,
Subject: RE: [sebhc] H8-Z80-64K-Duart Rev 4.0 board
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 21:03:47 +0000
Anyone else getting new traffic?
Thanks,
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Chris Elmquist
Hopefully everyone is just too busy with their Heathkit machines to
write to the list!
Chris
Joseph Travis
Traffic here has been low which I partially attribute to the season (people busy dealing with weather conditions -or- still playing with the "new toys" received over the past holidays).
There's a bit more activity on discord but even that has been low lately.
Joe
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Geo Monroe
glenn.f...@gmail.com
The last time we discussed Discord here many of you pointed out concerns you have about privacy or other issues. I respect those concerns. For what it's worth I personally have not experienced any negative side effects from Discord participation and find the general mode of operation very well-suited to classic computing discussions, but others have different opinions and experiences.
Currently there are 396 members on the google group and Discord is showing about 77 active contributors to the SEBHC server.
I think we should all be aware that there are many valued and long-standing contributors on the Google list, which goes back 20 years, originating with Jack Rubin and including respected contributors like Gene Buckle, Dwight Elvey, Bob Groh, Lee Hart, Dave Dunfield, Pat Swayne, and many more
https://sebhcmaillist.heathkit.garlanger.com/sebhc/2004-March/thread.html
I suggest we all try to make sure we tap into these great minds and be as inclusive as possible in our discussions.
Thanks Chris for the wakeup call...
- Glenn
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Randy E (OoMOR)
glenn.f...@gmail.com
Randy: When you get into the nitty-gritty back-and-forth debugging of this hardware you may find the Discord channel a more responsive source for discussion and deep dive, meanwhile here are my thoughts:
You may be surprised at the ability to restore the H17 drives. I’ve tackled 16 of these drives over the years and only four have (so far) been unrepairable (I suspect I can succeed on these with some more time and effort). My definition of “repaired” is the ability to successfully perform three passes of the (extensive) HDOS TEST17 program’s general drive diagnostic.
Where you may be more challenged is finding media for these (the H17 controller requires 10-hard sectored disks). One option is to punch extra holes in single-holed media (some members here have punches for this and may be able to help). Another option is to use a Virtual Sector Generator (VSG) or Hard-sector floppy emulator (Norberto’s H8 Computer ) to simulate the missing index holes, but these may not work well with the old original drives (not enough speed accuracy). The more modern drives the better (including 3.5” ones). I have some Used Old Stock 10-sectored disks that have proven to be pretty reliable (especially BASF and 3M brands), but even those you don’t want to depend on. The H17 is best for occasional use or demonstration at vintage festivals. For day-to-day use you’ll want some kind of solid-state storage.
There are plenty of resources on the SEBHC site explaining how to start from scratch to build an HDOS system once you have working drives.
The H-8-5 serial/cassette board will interface with the H19 of course, but you may experience issues running at 9600 BAUD. There have been reports here of difficulty pushing that board to its limits due to the optical coupling used in the RS-232 interface…
Keep us posted!
- Glenn
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/c1bcb9ec-0fae-43a7-875e-7a42f641cef0n%40googlegroups.com.
Randy E (OoMOR)
Randy E (OoMOR)
glenn.f...@gmail.com
My punch is worn out. Leaves “hanging chads” that end up making the disk noisy and scrape at the inner lining of the casing. Norberto had some of the disk punches left over from Ken Owen’s bulk purchase. Not sure if there are any left… (?) seems like he sent out an email a while back and people claimed them.
Anyone able to help randy punch some disks??
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/639f6e15-f9fb-47a2-a428-0234fd798e8dn%40googlegroups.com.
Randy E (OoMOR)
Benjamin Hansen
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/076301db8d4e%24b551bd00%241ff53700%24%40gmail.com.
Glenn Roberts
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/CAE9N4dawqfucqgEfkgCKNTgL1R0gJdWW%2BhGoW9rtQEaVEpUchg%40mail.gmail.com.
Dave McGuire
> While I am not really a contributor to this group beyond occasional
> comment, I do enjoy staying up to speed on the latest developments in
> the work of my first computer that started my digital journey in 1978.
>
> So if this group decides to go fully discord then I will regrettably not
> follow.
like to keep track of what's going on and have access to the Heath
expertise if I need it. I love my own Heathkit systems, and I maintain
the ones at LSSM too.
If someone is retired and doesn't have a lot going on it might be a
different story, but I'm a very busy person and just don't have time to
poll a hundred topics on a hundred Discord channels, wading through
heavy JavaScript soup the whole time.
Mailing lists are great. Something appears in my inbox, I see it on
whatever connected device I happen to be in front of, I deal with it,
and move on. Nice and efficient.
And what happens to all of the archived content, threads, files etc
on Discord when they decide that it isn't in their financial interest to
maintain it? Right. That has happened before, but we forget quickly.
Mailing lists are archived in a dozen different places.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
glenn.f...@gmail.com
Google: https://groups.google.com/g/sebhc
And Mark has archived the earlier ones:
https://sebhcmaillist.heathkit.garlanger.com/sebhc/
-----Original Message-----
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2025 9:41 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] list test
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Dave McGuire
The collective knowledge that those archives represent is huge. And
let's also not forget that those, too, are a part of Heathkit computing
history: the part of it that we are all making now. I think we don't
really think of it as such, but it is.
-Dave
Chris Elmquist
on Discord ever but I do dedicate time to reading this list and many
others when I am not doing the day job. I notice pretty quickly when
the traffic stops coming in.
I haven't contributed much lately but I did join the list back in 2008
and soon after worked with Les to get the HSFE going and the first
generation of the floppy punches manufactured.
Retirement is in view yet this year so hopefully I'll get more time to
play with these machines and I can contribute more to the conversations
on this list.
Thanks for keeping it alive!
cje
--
Chris Elmquist
Randy E (OoMOR)
glenn.f...@gmail.com
The h-8-4 was the main interface board that went with the H19. The H-8-5 was an earlier board (even though it had a higher number!) and was typically used with an H9 or Teletype or similar early terminal interface (TV typewriter??)…. The H-8-4 has four Intel 8250 UARTS. In HDOS that would typically give you one for the console (350Q), one for a serial printer (340Q), one for a modem (330Q) and one to spare, perhaps for an AUX: device (320Q) (e.g. plotter or whatever)
Unfortunately, I don’t know that I can point you to an available modern clone of the H-8-4. Norberto has recently been building in the 350Q & 340Q interfaces using a “DUART” daughterboard that mounts directly on one of his modern CPU clones. Les Bird has certainly developed clones of the H-8-4 (going all the way back to 2009 and his first version (H8-2000 Construction Notes) but these PC boards are not currently “in production” (i.e. available through Todd Goodman.) I imagine Les would probably share the info to order some blank boards through a PCB fab.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/7ff67578-3cf8-48c0-8bc2-39b2f9fe25b1n%40googlegroups.com.
Randy E (OoMOR)
Glenn Roberts
On Mar 5, 2025, at 5:38 PM, 'Randy E (OoMOR)' via SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/0211a9e7-2941-492a-b4c8-a71564278ee9n%40googlegroups.com.
Randy E (OoMOR)
glenn.f...@gmail.com
The reed relays for the motor control may set you back a little 😊 JWD-171-25 TE Connectivity / P&B | Mouser
Is the BOM missing from norberto’s site? I found the attached on my machine.
Looks like I built mine about 2 years ago…
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JjMhJZMK4DXurbkW9
good luck!
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/9a467e77-23d0-4c2f-9445-beb3b79f1845n%40googlegroups.com.
norberto.collado koyado.com
Glenn,
I have in the queue to develop an H8-4 equivalent board with the TTY interface as well. I’m planning in using the 16C550- PLCC-44 USART as they are widely available.
From July 2023 email:
Updated Features:
- Add I/O Wait state generator. Jumper selectable.
- H89-Z-89-11 parallel printer support (82C55). Include RTC from the new H89 board design supported by Joe. Note: Use correct parallel port footprint during layout.
- 2x 82C51A H8T support and console (Note: add /INT fix to boot HDOS for console). I/O Ports: 370Q-371Q, 372Q-373Q. Use same H8-4 pin headers
- 2X 16C550 – DCE/DTE I/O Ports: 350Q, 340Q, 300Q, 310Q, 320Q, & 330Q. Use same H8-4 pin headers
- Called it “H8-Multi-IO"
- Add current loop circuit for ASR33s printers. Use jumpers instead of a switch to control current loop.
Norberto
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/028301db8e1b%246263cb10%24272b6130%24%40gmail.com.
norberto.collado koyado.com
Updates:
- Add Wait state generator to run at 16MHz
- H89-Z-89-11 parallel printer support (82C55)
- 2x 82C51A H8T support and console
- Use MAX and 10 pin headers (4 cables needed + parallel port cable)
- Add only 3 UART’s (console, modem, printer) as in the H89 design
- Add I2C RTC
- Called it “H8-Z4-Multi-IO Board"
- Add current loop circuit for ASR33s printers. Use jumpers instead of a switch to control current loop. Just on the 16C550.
Norby
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/SA3PR01MB7918B64220C2187A94540807F7CA2%40SA3PR01MB7918.prod.exchangelabs.com.
norberto.collado koyado.com
My bad on the BOM. I will fix it tonight. Jameco has the reed relays and cheaper.
Norby
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of glenn.f...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2025 4:49 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] list test
The reed relays for the motor control may set you back a little 😊 JWD-171-25 TE Connectivity / P&B | Mouser
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/02e001db8e31%247d10db40%24773291c0%24%40gmail.com.
glenn.f...@gmail.com
Yeah. WAY cheaper. Tx!
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/SA3PR01MB79188EAB27D2331AE233E3EDF7CA2%40SA3PR01MB7918.prod.exchangelabs.com.
Les Bird
Glenn Roberts
On Mar 7, 2025, at 10:36 AM, Les Bird <lesb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Info for all of my H8 boards is on the Wiki: https://github.com/sebhc/sebhc/wiki
I have Gerbers for all of the boards posted there so you can send them to JLCPCB and get 5 boards (their minimum order quantity) for pretty cheap: https://jlcpcb.com/Best way to find them is to follow the links on the index table to the right of the main Wiki page:
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/04ceeb3e-9109-4555-9997-f7d3923e9f2dn%40googlegroups.com.
<Screenshot 2025-03-07 083004.png>
glenn.f...@gmail.com
(thread renamed from “list test”…)
I’m prepping for VCF East. I plan to show off the H8, H9 and H19 all with “backlit” keys (huge shout out to Terry Smedley for the engineering work on these!). I’ve got a system set up with two serial boards: an H-8-4 (for the H19/console) and an H-8-5 (to drive the H9 and run some of the original Heath software). This works as expected. HDOS prioritizes the H8-4 and if it sees one it will assume that as the console. If you move the jumper on the H8-4 to disable the board it boots up with the H8-5 as the console. Great! I can thus boot/run old programs (that were designed only for the H-8-5) and should also be able to use the Tape Memory Image software (HUG #885-1061) to load and run old tape image software, and of course with the H8-4 enabled can run full HDOS and show off the dual CF capabilities and performance (very peppy even on a 2mhz 8080 CPU! – this is the newer version 2.1)
But this machine is pretty full, and I need to leave at least one open slot where we plan to demonstrate the Votrax board that Joe is bringing.
So I thought I could use the new H8-Z5-4 board to replace the H8-4 and H8-5 with a single dual-use board, thus freeing up a slot. So far I have not had complete luck with this. I can fully emulate the H8-5 (console and H8T functions), and I can configure the board as an H8-4 console (port 350Q) but when I try to enable both functions simultaneously I’m running into problems. I haven’t taken detailed notes and have been focusing on getting demonstrations ready. Part of the problem may be that we never set up a full document for this board and for the jumpers (of which there are many).
So for now I’m ok but if I could free up another slot I could add some other feature to the demo. It’s amazing how quickly 8 slots get used up! (1: Original 8080 CPU with Norberto’s EEPROM adapter and XCon-8 plus Dual CF boot code; 2: 64K RAM; 3: Dual CF board; 4: Votrax board; 5: RTC; 6: VDIP; 7: H8-5; 8: H8-4)
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/0211a9e7-2941-492a-b4c8-a71564278ee9n%40googlegroups.com.
norberto.collado koyado.com
Glenn,
For HDOS to work properly with the H8-Z5-4 board the following rework needs to be done. The 8251A does not have interrupts, so the added logic to Pin 14 and Pin 24 allows to mimic interrupts that can be disabled or enabled by software.
Spare parts: U112 pins 13-12, U18 pins 4,5,6, U11 pins 11-10.
Cut trace between at 8251A pin 14. Wired as above schematic.
OLD Circuit:
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/07c101db8fce%2412b6dad0%2438249070%24%40gmail.com.
glenn.f...@gmail.com
Ok. I’ll study that. thanks.
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of norberto.collado koyado.com
Sent: Saturday, March 8, 2025 5:05 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/SA3PR01MB7918EC25B4DAE70E778A631AF7D42%40SA3PR01MB7918.prod.exchangelabs.com.
norberto.collado koyado.com
I updated the website with such changes. New schematics, and new Gerber files for Todd to pick them up once stock is depleted.
http://koyado.com/heathkit/New-H8-Website/h8-z5-4-serial-console-cassette-io.html
I will create a rework file today for the current boards. This is something Scott found during his testing. This is needed to be 100% compatible with the original H8-5 Heath board.
Thanks,
Norberto
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/0cd601db907e%245bacc550%2413064ff0%24%40gmail.com.
Glenn Roberts
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/SJ2PR01MB7933DA0A162A0EC876124860F7D42%40SJ2PR01MB7933.prod.exchangelabs.com.
norberto.collado koyado.com
OK, please let me know in case we have another rework.
Attached is the Interrupt rework for the 8251 to have software control.
Norberto
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/CACkv5mAG8A92P-rZ2XTj-KY6WLi-0%2BfKc-pf%2B-QC%3DEuQRc3owA%40mail.gmail.com.
glenn.f...@gmail.com
I believe I’ve found the problem. I initially had the board equipped with a TI TL16c550CN UART. I have a boot sequence that works fine with the original H8-4 and H8-5 boards installed. When I execute that with the Z5 board and the TI 16c550 I observe on the front panel that the CPU is in a loop from 52.004 to 52.010. I disassembled these instructions with results as follows:
LOOP IN SC.ACE+UR.LSR ; Read line status register on Console port
ANI UC.TSE ; Transmitter shift register empty?
JNZ LOOP ; no, loop…
So it never sees the TSE condition…!
I then substituted a National Semiconductor NS16550AN and all seems to be well. The system can boot HDOS2, HDOS3 and CP/M 2.2.04. I am also able to use MEMCON.ABS and GET.ABS (from HUG 885-1061) to load and run older TMI (Tape Memory Image) files. This lets us demonstrate the H9 and the 8251 interface. (GET loads the TMI at location 040.100 [clobbering HDOS in the process] and transfers control).
I have a feeling of DeJa’Vu. I think if you search the SEBHC listings you’ll find some other issues I had with these TI UARTs (something to do with the auto-baud code that asks for the SPACE key??) They’re somehow different. I should just throw them away lest this comes back to bite me again in a few years 😊
So I decided to try booting HDOS on the H9. I pulled the jumper to disable the 16550. HDOS will look for both consoles but if it doesn’t find the 8250 (or 16550) it reverts to the older 8251 code. I discovered that I can boot and run all three operating systems! I have NOT implemented the modification recently posted here by Norberto. What I did find is that if I boot HDOS 2 or HDOS 3 I must not hit the RETURN key when prompted <BOOT>. If I let it time out the boot will proceed and when finished everything seems to work fine.
If I don’t wait for the time out and hit RETURN at the <BOOT> prompt the front panel LEDs go out and the ION LED is dimly illuminated. This is true for both HDOS 2 and 3.
So I can’t explain it all but that’s what I’m seeing.
The good news is I can now just use the one serial card for both consoles (though I may take the older two boards as a backup!)
- Glenn
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/SA3PR01MB79181DAE3B99E8910FBF63F4F7D72%40SA3PR01MB7918.prod.exchangelabs.com.
Joseph Travis
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/0d8a01db909a%245486df10%24fd949d30%24%40gmail.com.
Glenn Roberts
<image001.png>
OLD Circuit:
<image002.png>
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/CAGQDgBAF74KFLM1wDHKBEdH7-ZAwBnWBpWrgX7kktVav3vM7Dw%40mail.gmail.com.
norberto.collado koyado.com
Great finding!
Norberto
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/56CA986A-2FD9-4622-B611-A80D406FD8B2%40gmail.com.
Randy E (OoMOR)
FYI, I live in Long Beach and work in the Anaheim/Placentia area of Southern California. However, I have no problem with driving a reasonable distance and will be driving to Las Vegas in April.On Tuesday, March 4, 2025 at 5:31:08 PM UTC-8 glenn.f...@gmail.com wrote:My punch is worn out. Leaves “hanging chads” that end up making the disk noisy and scrape at the inner lining of the casing. Norberto had some of the disk punches left over from Ken Owen’s bulk purchase. Not sure if there are any left… (?) seems like he sent out an email a while back and people claimed them.
Anyone able to help randy punch some disks??
- Glenn
From: 'Randy E (OoMOR)' via SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2025 8:16 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] list test
Will do. I guess I will need to find someone local to SoCal to punch some Soft Sector disks or even better, find someone selling punches. I have a lot of old 5.25 floppies, but doubt they are still viable, so will probably buy some from FloppyDisc.com unless anyone has a better suggestion.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/639f6e15-f9fb-47a2-a428-0234fd798e8dn%40googlegroups.com.
glenn.f...@gmail.com
Great! My experience with the H17: 1) I’ve had a high rate of success (80% or more) in getting the old Siemens and/or Wangco drives to work reliably; 2) they almost certainly *will* need servicing – the bearings dry out and worm gear gets stiff over time.
I had the best of intentions of doing a writeup on my experiences cleaning/restoring these old drives. The farthest I’ve gotten so far is to share the pictures, so for what they’re worth:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kuANXjEqk6eefXXW7
good luck. Happy to answer questions…
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/1501acfc-db6c-46b4-85f3-fd955a2f818cn%40googlegroups.com.
Randy E (OoMOR)
1: Sewing Machine Oil
2: White Lithium Grease
3: Q-Tips, LOTS of Q-Tips (or generic cotton tip applicators so I don't get accused of trademark infringement)
4: Chamois Swabs or Tape Head Cleaning Swabs for head cleaning
5: Potentially, replacement felt pressure pads (or DIY it with a leather punch and industrial felt or Tape Head Cleaning Swabs).
6: IPA (for head cleaning)
glenn.f...@gmail.com
I used a pin oiler (e.g. https://a.co/d/cvlp4Hr) but I think any lightweight oil will do. I used a very tiny amount of lithium grease on the worm drive but I would think any lightweight grease would suffice. Go sparingly. Others here may have other suggestions. The key to knowing the worm gear is in good shape is if you can manually move the head mechanism back and forth and have it turn the screw drive. I often find all three bearings (for the drive shaft) to be in poor shape (dried up lube). I soaked them in a solvent and used the pin oiler to lubricate. You should be able to spin the flywheel and have the mechanism spin freely for many turns.
Good luck – let us know how it goes!
From: 'Randy E (OoMOR)' via SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 8:19 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] list test
If I understand correctly, my shopping list should include;
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norberto.collado koyado.com
Hello Randy,
Sorry for the late reply as I was checking all my storage for additional puncher. I only found the one I used for several disks. You can have it for $20.00 if interested.
I do not needed it anymore as I used the HSFE build in onto the H17 controller for the H8 and the H89 using 3.5” Floppies. With the H8 H37 soft sectored board you can do better in capacity for storage.
Also, you can attached the GOTEK to the H17 controller for read only operations.
Thanks,
Norberto
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of glenn.f...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 4:29 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/01d301db9214%243a9de870%24afd9b950%24%40gmail.com.
Randy E (OoMOR)
Glenn Roberts
On Mar 20, 2025, at 12:20 AM, 'Randy E (OoMOR)' via SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
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norberto.collado koyado.com
Just send the payment thru PayPal as friends: norberto...@koyado.com
Joe and Rick are the experts in getting the “Dual CF Storage Controller” working with the Heath 8080A CPU and the Heath Z80 CPU as well. This controller makes it easy to boot CP/M and HDOS2/3.
Also, you will need to add the H8 VDIP1 (USB) tiny board, designed and supported by Terry S (Terry Smedley te...@tsmedley.net) . With this board you can transfer files between a Windows laptop to the H17 disk or the CF cards. No need to use a modem program for file transfer. This is a simple and powerful configuration to keep you busy for years to come.
Norberto
From: 'Randy E (OoMOR)' via SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2025 9:20 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] list test
Norberto,
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Randy E (OoMOR)
norberto.collado koyado.com
Thanks!
From: 'Randy E (OoMOR)' via SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 8:16 AM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] list test
Norberto,
I have sent the funds via Paypal. I have also sent a separate email with my shipping info.
Thanks, Randy
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norberto.collado koyado.com
I’m also sending you two new and sharp punch ends that Ken gave me. This is what is left from this equipment.
My best regards to Ken for putting all this together for this group.
Norberto
From: norberto.collado koyado.com
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2025 2:50 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] list test
Thanks!
norberto.collado koyado.com
Joe,
Can you take a picture of the assembly instructions on how to put this puncher together? I was not able to find them or a copy.
Norberto
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/SA3PR01MB79184F9CFD1AEE4F40AC2C1BF7A42%40SA3PR01MB7918.prod.exchangelabs.com.
Joseph Travis
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norberto.collado koyado.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2025 7:34:39 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: Puncher End.