This may be a rabbit trail, but as I work my way through the troubleshooting tips offered yesterday to help me get my H8 to boot from my H37 controller and 3.5” floppy, I noticed that my motherboard uses the older tin connectors.
I would like to eventually purchase a new motherboard (or chassis, if these can be found) but for now, I wonder if the buss could be the cause of my boot issues?
Should I use Deoxit to clean the contacts? Any other advice/tips to get me running?
I believe the main symptom that you’d see with the tinned connectors would be intermittent bad behavior. Reseating the board would presumably make the problem go away, for a while (until oxide built up).
I defer to others but to me this *does* seem like the kind of situation where deoxit is appropriate to use, as its intent is to remove oxidation film off contacts.
I think in a previous post Norberto made the interesting comment that it was easy to replace the pins. I think that all depends on whether you have the right de-soldering tools and expertise – for me it always seemed like a formidable task.
10 years ago Les Bird developed a KiCad design for a modern equivalent (pix here, kicads here). I actually have one of these (in “Rusty”) and it has been 100% solid. Les added a few nice features including the ability to use a modern ATX switching power supply plus six extra positions to accommodate short or low clearance cards (handy for some of the newer boards that Norberto has designed). Les also cites the spec’s (0.318”) for the pins (available from Phoenix Enterprises here).
It would be a worthy idea to put this on your “to do” list (either replacing the pins or the whole backplane) but I think you can eliminate this from consideration as the source of your H37 problem by simply reseating the board or moving it to a different slot (and possibly using deoxit or some other cleaner).
It has been quite a while since there was any organized order of Les’ old boards – there might be considerable interest from people on this list in organizing a group purchase as this is a worthwhile investment for improving any old H8 system…
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector pins,
how important to upgrade these?
From: "eric.mack" <Eric...@FasterAtWork.com>
Date: Thu, September 26, 2019 11:05 am
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
My first objective is to get my existing Z80 H8 running as it was years ago. Then, I will look to build out the set of upgraded boards.--This may be a rabbit trail, but as I work my way through the troubleshooting tips offered yesterday to help me get my H8 to boot from my H37 controller and 3.5” floppy, I noticed that my motherboard uses the older tin connectors.I would like to eventually purchase a new motherboard (or chassis, if these can be found) but for now, I wonder if the buss could be the cause of my boot issues?Should I use Deoxit to clean the contacts? Any other advice/tips to get me running?
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
From: "eric.mack" <Eric...@FasterAtWork.com>
At lunch I'll pull and reseat the boards. Someday, I would probably replace the motehrboard rather than try to desolder and install new pins.As I said, I knew this could be a rabbit trail, but always fun to learn.Thanks, Glenn,
On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 12:43:00 PM UTC-7, Glenn wrote:
I believe the main symptom that you’d see with the tinned connectors would be intermittent bad behavior. Reseating the board would presumably make the problem go away, for a while (until oxide built up).I defer to others but to me this *does* seem like the kind of situation where deoxit is appropriate to use, as its intent is to remove oxidation film off contacts.I think in a previous post Norberto made the interesting comment that it was easy to replace the pins. I think that all depends on whether you have the right de-soldering tools and expertise – for me it always seemed like a formidable task.10 years ago Les Bird developed a KiCad design for a modern equivalent (pix here, kicads here). I actually have one of these (in “Rusty”) and it has been 100% solid. Les added a few nice features including the ability to use a modern ATX switching power supply plus six extra positions to accommodate short or low clearance cards (handy for some of the newer boards that Norberto has designed). Les also cites the spec’s (0.318”) for the pins (available from Phoenix Enterprises here).It would be a worthy idea to put this on your “to do” list (either replacing the pins or the whole backplane) but I think you can eliminate this from consideration as the source of your H37 problem by simply reseating the board or moving it to a different slot (and possibly using deoxit or some other cleaner).It has been quite a while since there was any organized order of Les’ old boards – there might be considerable interest from people on this list in organizing a group purchase as this is a worthwhile investment for improving any old H8 system…
- Glenn
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of eric.mack
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 2:05 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector pins, how important to upgrade these?
My first objective is to get my existing Z80 H8 running as it was years ago. Then, I will look to build out the set of upgraded boards.This may be a rabbit trail, but as I work my way through the troubleshooting tips offered yesterday to help me get my H8 to boot from my H37 controller and 3.5” floppy, I noticed that my motherboard uses the older tin connectors.I would like to eventually purchase a new motherboard (or chassis, if these can be found) but for now, I wonder if the buss could be the cause of my boot issues?Should I use Deoxit to clean the contacts? Any other advice/tips to get me running?
--
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Norberto: what’s the trick to doing this? How do you de-solder those 25-pin connectors? I’ve got one old backplane somewhere that I’d like to upgrade but I don’t have the de-soldering tools or skills I guess?
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
From: "Glenn Roberts" <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, September 26, 2019 2:39 pm
To: <se...@googlegroups.com>
Norberto: what’s the trick to doing this? How do you de-solder those 25-pin connectors? I’ve got one old backplane somewhere that I’d like to upgrade but I don’t have the de-soldering tools or skills I guess?From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 5:31 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector pins, how important to upgrade these?
The H8 backplane that you have can be fixed easily with gold plated connectors. It is about two hrs job.
Norberto-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector pins,
how important to upgrade these?
From: "eric.mack" <Eric...@FasterAtWork.com>
Date: Thu, September 26, 2019 11:05 am
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>My first objective is to get my existing Z80 H8 running as it was years ago. Then, I will look to build out the set of upgraded boards.This may be a rabbit trail, but as I work my way through the troubleshooting tips offered yesterday to help me get my H8 to boot from my H37 controller and 3.5” floppy, I noticed that my motherboard uses the older tin connectors.I would like to eventually purchase a new motherboard (or chassis, if these can be found) but for now, I wonder if the buss could be the cause of my boot issues?Should I use Deoxit to clean the contacts? Any other advice/tips to get me running?--
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
--
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Good conversation and these are helpful steps and tips.
I can’t help but wonder if there is any advantage to just having another PCBOARD made from Les’ plans and populating that from scratch? (Assuming it’s possible to order just one inexpensively?)
Or, am I understanding Norberto to suggest that Les’ new motherboard has no benefit over an original H8 motherboard once upgraded with gold pins (apart from the power supply options?)
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
From: "eric.mack" <Eric...@FasterAtWork.com>
Date: Thu, September 26, 2019 4:31 pm
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Do you have a preferred supplier (part#) for the pins and for the large bag of 10-pin Molex KK? If so, i can order some... Otherwise, I'll use Google :-)
On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:00:37 PM UTC-7, Lee wrote:
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
From: "eric.mack" <Eric...@FasterAtWork.com>
I can’t help but wonder if there is any advantage to just having another PCBOARD made from Les’ plans and populating that from scratch? (Assuming it’s possible to order just one inexpensively?)Or, am I understanding Norberto to suggest that Les’ new motherboard has no benefit over an original H8 motherboard once upgraded with gold pins (apart from the power supply options?)
On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:43:54 PM UTC-7, Norby wrote:
Great feedback!I do have a minor change to your procedure and that is to pre-heat the plastic body with the heat gun and take out the plastic with the pliers. Then as you melt the solder on each pin, it just fall off easily (gravity takes care of that) along with the solder.Then insert the new gold header and follow Heath procedure to keep alignment in check.
Norberto
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
From: "eric.mack" <Eric...@FasterAtWork.com>
Date: Thu, September 26, 2019 5:37 pm
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Got it. I guess the other benefit is for folks who want to build a complete H82K from scratch.
Thanks for that helpful explanation.
On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-7, Norby wrote:
The only benefit to Les' H8 motherboard is if you decided to use a PC power supply or if you decide to developed half cards that can plug between boards. I have two H8 and one is using the Tryonix motherboard and the other is using the Heath board with the updated gold pins.
Les H8 motherboards are good for those H8's chassis that are missing the power supply or the motherboard.
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Note to self: never buy more than one of any of Norberto’s boards because by the time you get around to building out the second one Norberto will have come up with something even better!
I think it would be really cool to have a “short chassis” H8 and would be interested in helping with prototyping such a design.
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:06 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
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Yes Norberto has long been thinking about how to put the H19 terminal function on a board and, as you say, just attach keyboard and LCD screen. I’ve lost a few of the CRTs over the years so my working population of H19s is dwindling! The trend will continue and probably accelerate… Another approach, of course, is to use a PC and H19 emulator – we’ve got some pretty good ones now.
While no front panel is necessary given the new Z80 board design and H89 style ROM interface its certainly an important design feature of the H8. I would be reluctant to remove the front panel from my systems, however I could envision an LED-less front panel H8 system that would look something like the H11 did:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/heath11.jpg
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It would still be a fun build – almost like “the old days”. It is getting hard to find some of the older chips though…
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of John Evans
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2019 8:12 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector pins, how important to upgrade these?
No kidding. I've got an entire set of the H8 2K boards with parts I've collected in a box, in my crawlspace, waiting for a good time to begin work.
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
From: "Glenn Roberts" <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, September 27, 2019 5:09 am
To: <se...@googlegroups.com>
Note to self: never buy more than one of any of Norberto’s boards because by the time you get around to building out the second one Norberto will have come up with something even better!
I think it would be really cool to have a “short chassis” H8 and would be interested in helping with prototyping such a design.
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:06 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector pins, how important to upgrade these?
What I will like to do in the near future is to build out a Mini-H8 4-slot H8 backplane for new designs as Les provides a solution to build out a complete H8 system (H82K) from scratch. I expect the Z80 CPU will go thru another spin soon to support on-board 512KB as 64KB is not enought for future expansion (see attached picture).Slot 1 - CPU - No front panel - with 512KB of RAM - DUART/USBSlot 2 - NetworkSlot 3 - Storage (H17/H37/H67) or IDESlot 4 - H19 TERMNorberto
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
From: "eric.mack" <Eric...@FasterAtWork.com>
Date: Thu, September 26, 2019 5:37 pm
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Got it. I guess the other benefit is for folks who want to build a complete H82K from scratch.
Thanks for that helpful explanation.
On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-7, Norby wrote:
The only benefit to Les' H8 motherboard is if you decided to use a PC power supply or if you decide to developed half cards that can plug between boards. I have two H8 and one is using the Tryonix motherboard and the other is using the Heath board with the updated gold pins.Les H8 motherboards are good for those H8's chassis that are missing the power supply or the motherboard.Norberto
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
From: "eric.mack" <Eric...@FasterAtWork.com>
Date: Thu, September 26, 2019 4:55 pm
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
I can’t help but wonder if there is any advantage to just having another PCBOARD made from Les’ plans and populating that from scratch? (Assuming it’s possible to order just one inexpensively?)Or, am I understanding Norberto to suggest that Les’ new motherboard has no benefit over an original H8 motherboard once upgraded with gold pins (apart from the power supply options?)
On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:43:54 PM UTC-7, Norby wrote:
Great feedback!I do have a minor change to your procedure and that is to pre-heat the plastic body with the heat gun and take out the plastic with the pliers. Then as you melt the solder on each pin, it just fall off easily (gravity takes care of that) along with the solder.Then insert the new gold header and follow Heath procedure to keep alignment in check.Norberto
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] My H8 motherboard appears to have tin connector
pins, how important to upgrade these?
--
There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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No apologies. your innovative spirit, enthusiasm and follow-through are amazing. Who’d know this is just a “hobby” for you!? always fun to see what the coming attractions are!
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