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only God can see the world as one
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Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 12, 2019, 2:14:08 AM12/12/19
to
BIR meaning fur again - word branching - answering a reproach -
only God can see the world as one - multi-dimensional approach -
Indo-Uralic (Leiden 21)
***
The secret of Magdalenian is to look at language the other way, not from
the present backward in time, instead from a remote past forward in time.
I find ever more derivatives of Magdalenian words almost every week.
Last week a further derivative of KOD meaning tent, hut, namely Swiss
Gade (final 'e' a schwa) 'shed, small barn'. And this week another
derivative of BIR meaning fur, namely -wear- -wor- in swear sworn
that may preserve a Stone Age ritual of taking an oath on a ceremonial
fur, later on replaced by a flag or the Bible, in sci.lang by textbooks.
Not being a sworn believer in sound algebra I am an Old Norse vargr
'felon, criminal; wolf' from *h2/3wergh- '+- commit a crime' - someone
who does not take an oath, or broke his oath, or swore on a wolf fur
instead of the ceremonial fur of a shaman or shamaness, meaning I don't
swear on them holy textbooks. I read and consult and estimate textbooks
but I don't consider them the whole truth, Latin veritas 'truth' one
more reference to the ceremonial BIR fur ver-, so I am regarded as
black sheep having a fur of different color, if not as a wolf wearing
a sheepskin.
***
Sworn believers in sound algebra can't look at language my way. Another
derivative of BIR meaning fur is English _for_ that originally named an
exchange: I give you a fur for this or that ... Furs had been a bare necessity
in the Ice Age, and if I remember correctly, sabel furs had been an official
currency in Poland until the early 20th century. BIR is also present in purse
and German Börse 'stock exchange'. Then of course in wear, wearing a fur coat,
and in bear, to bear a fur or leather bag, Greek byrsa 'hide, fur, leather'.
Semitic Bir and Beer named wells as places where fur and leather bags had been
filled with water, Beersheba 'village of the Seven Wells'. Consider also German
Brunnen 'well, spring, fountain'. A next generation of linguists will have
no problem looking at language that way, and will enjoy following the semantic
ramifications of early words. Young ones who can still remember the pleasure
they found in playing with words when they had been children.
The pioneers of Indo-European discovered that words in different languages
can have the same origin. After centuries of IE and PIE studies we may go
further and discover that also varieties of words in one and the same language
can share a common origin. In that sense Magdalenian is the natural expansion
of PIE.
I don't believe that several ten thousands of PIE roots had been created
ex nihilo; my understanding is that a few early words branched into the marvel
of present language, parallel to the evolution of material culture.
A language is a collective work of art, shaped by millions of people who
always liked to play with words, happily invented numerous variations,
tried out combinations, and preserved the best among both of them.
***
The structuralists from the middle of the past century understood language
as exchange. I'd say language mediates exchange, and a witness to that notion
is English for German für Dutch voor. If you buy something you give money,
in former times furs for what you want or need. If you go forward you echange
the former position for a new one, step by step by step. If you go backward
you regain the former positions, going in the direction of your back, Old
English rycc, German Rücken 'back' rückwärts 'backward'. German vorsichtig
'cautious, with caution' says that conditions have changed: instead of a free
way there is now an obstacle or a danger. Pre- in English precaution derives
from the permutation group of PIR meaning fire, PRI meaning turning smoke,
wherefrom Greek peri 'round about' and English pre- in precaution: you walk
around the obstacle or danger. I think the good old structuralists were right
about their deep notion of exchange. Their model was the exchange of women
between tribes; mine are furs traded for something one needed or wanted.
***
You can bear a fur bag. A pregnant woman bears a child, then gives birth to
a child called bairn in Scottland. The Vinca (Vincha) people in the Neolithic
Balkans worshiped a divine bear mother and bear nurse, with hundreds of
figurines, imploring the fierce protection of a bear mother for her cubs.
From Hellenistic Greece we know the custom of placing a newborn on a bear
fur, a custom that survived in parts of the Slavic world until the 20th century.
The opposite is the end of life. English bier and German Bahre suggest that
also dead people were laid on a bear fur, in the hope that the goddess might
give birth to a worthy soul in a heavenly beyond.
Marija Gimbutas: The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: "The image of the
Great Goddess of Life, Death and Regeneration in anthropomorphic form with
a projection of her powers through insects and animals - bee, butterfly, deer,
bear, toad, turtle, hedgehog and dog - was the outward symbol of a community
concerned with the problems of the life and death cycle."
The mortality of children and women in childbirth had been high in the Stone
Age, the blessings of modern medicine unknown and undreamed of, so people
implored the help and blessing of the Great Goddess of many shapes, among
them the divine bear mother.
Sound algebra works in an abstract way; Magdalenian requires empathy.
***
When you follow words backward in time along sound laws you end up with
isolated roots, for example the six homonyms *bher-. When I start from
a hypothetical early word like BIR meaning fur I see it branch into many
derivatives. BIR explains all six homonyms *bher-, as demonstrated in 2008,
and again recently. Also German Form und Farbe 'shape and color' derive
from BIR, furs having colors, mostly brown (*bher- 'brown') but also white,
gray, black, and reddish, and they have a distinct form, the four legs
accounting for English four German vier (*kwetwores 'four' from KOD BIR
naming a tent or hut KOD made from or covered with a hide BIR of four legs).
The Stone Age people cooked their meat and vegetabilia in a pit laid out
with a hide, whereupon hot stones from a nearby fire place were rolled into
the water and made it boil (*bher- 'boil'). The Norse berserks applied
hallucinogenic herbs mixed with fat to the inside of their fur coats,
the drug was absorbed by the skin and made them go wild before a battle
(BIR ber-). From this ghastly practice we can infer a healing method,
shamans and shamanesses mixing medical herbs with fat and smearing the
ointment on the inside of a warming fur and covering a patient (*bher-
'heal'). English virgin suggests BIR GYN meaning fur woman, maidens
helping the shamaness by gathering herbs and berries, leaves, bark and
roots, carrying them in fur bags, and using them for making medicines,
ointments, and beverages. Chewing seeds of grasses, later on grains of
cereals, spitting them into a fur bag and making them germinate was the
origin of beer German Bier. Hungarian bor 'wine' indicates berry wine
made in the same way. The emblem of the shamaness GYN BIR who taught
and guided her maiden helpers would have been juniper from which Gin is
made, preserved in the female given name Ginevra Jennifer. Their goddess
would haven been the divine fur giver BIR GID whose sisters had been the
fire giver PIR GID and fertility giver BRI GID. All three of them became
the powerful Celtic triple-goddess Brigid. While BRI GID alone became the
Greek love goddess
BRI GID aBRI GIDe Aphrodite
BRI also accounts for English free German frei. Google employees are free
to spend one fifth of their working time on ideas and projects of their own,
which results in precious contributions benefitting the company.
***
Answering the reproach that I offer "nothing that anyone has ever found
useful"
My reconstructions of early and very early mathematical methods were
useful when I gave free lessons for two care organizations. They are useful
in establishing a fair history of civilization. My interpretations of art works
from various epochs will be useful for art historians. And my linguistic
work will become useful for a next generation of linguists who can also
read visual language, estimate the rich legacy of the Stone Age in the form
of cave art and rock art and mobile art, recognize symbols also in early
literature, and apply the methods of early mathematics when it comes to
calendars and symbolical numbers for example in the Bible.
Here again my triangle of language, a cultural program in nuce, summary
of half a century of studies and work in several fields. Language can be
seen as a triangle whose corners are
life with needs and wishes
mathematics as logic of building and maintaining
based on the formula a = a
art as human measure in a technical world
following the logic of equal unequal
Goethe: 'All is equal, all unequal ...'
a formula known to artists of all times
But of course my work is useless for worshippers of holy textbooks who
believe to own the Truth.
While the natural sciences make enourmous progress the humanities,
caught in a feudalistic bubble, wobble along behind the present (and
sci.lang behind the humanities, proactively ignoring decades old insights
from the humanities in academe). I aspire to lessen the gap, a fair
history of civilization being a sine qua non of a prospering global society.
Considering the size of the task with all the massive obstacles in the way
I came far, so far that others can take over.
Once again: I don't write for sci.langers who can only argue on meta-levels
and drop verdicts from above.
***
Galilei famously wrote that the book of nature is written in the language of
mathematics ... God may understand all of nature in mathematical terms,
while we deciphered only the first lines on the first page of the first volume
on the first shelf in the first hall of the divine library.
Next to the mathematical logic of a = a we need the logic of equal unequal.
Do we have a free will? or is our will determined by the laws of physiology,
neurology, economy, and so on?
Leonardo da Vinci posed a version of this question in his mural of the Last
Supper in the former refectory of the monastery Santa Maria delle Grazie
at Milan. Jesus announced that one of his disciples will betray him. They
are shocked. Who is the culprit? While asking for his name they reveal him
as if coincidentally with glances and gestures. Peter, turning toward John
the Younger, even places the knob of his knife on Judas' back and presses
him toward the table, as if trying to push him out of the picture space,
yet the long table holds him back as a barrier - also the traitor was needed
in God's plan of saving humankind.
The virtual picture space is a perfect prolongation of the real space,
however, the lines of the perspectives coincide only when seen from a special
viewpoint: some nine meters before the wall painting (no fresco), in a height
of some four and a half meters, opposite of Christ - only he can see the world
as one. From every other vantage point accessible to a visitor the lines of
the perspective are breaking.
The same notion can be gleaned from the background of the Mona Lisa,
an allegory of seeing. On either side of her appears a lake, but while we
look at the front of the lake on the left side, we look down on the lake
on the right side. So we have two perspectives which are incompatible
and made an art critic assume that Leonardo was a schizophrenic. No,
he made a philosophical statement: we can't see the world as one.
Light as a physical phenomenon has a double nature: wave and particle stream.
Relativity theory and quantum dynamics are still incompatible. The dream of
a Theory Of Everything remains an illusion. If we ever get something like it,
an alternative theory will arise ... Only God can see the world as one.
Sound algebra leads backward in time, whereas Magdalenian proceeds from a
remote past forward in time. Also these are contradictory and complementary
perspectives. We can't solve all problems with a single method, and if it is
a most successful one - in the given case the comparative method.
By the way, the Last Supper by Leonardo is a perfect illustration of equal
unequal. The virtual picture space is of a strict symmetry, while one wall
is dark, the other bright. We see Christ in the middle at the long table,
beside him six and six disciples, groups of three and three men, the
outer groups acting collectively, the figures of the inner groups close
to Christ individually. There is great variation in the way they behave
and reveal the traitor unconsciously. Jacobus the Elder points with his
index finger to the back of the head of Judas, if only in the reduction of
the virtual space to the picture plane. One second later John the Younger
will open his eyes and look directly at Judas, traitor of the Lord.
***
Goethe favored a multi-dimensional approach
Willst Du ins Unendliche schreiten
Geh nur im Endlichen nach allen Seiten
If you wish to get an idea of the infinite, explore the finite in all directions.
Currently I study Leiden 21 on the Indo-Anatolian and Indo-Uralic hypotheses.
My own approach is very different. I go for simple words of a way older
language, the grammar of body language and involving direct context,
rely on cave art and rock art and mobile art, legacy of the Stone Age,
and use early mathematics for the reconstruction of calendars.
My Magdalenian experiment began with an amazing lunisolar calendar
in early 2005, reconstructed from symbols in the Lascaux cave, moon bull
and sun horse and a pair of opposing midwinter ibices (Marie E.P. König),
and from accompanying ideograms. This calender made me recognize the
axial gallery of Lascaux as representation of a year, from the midwinter
niche (König) to the glorious midsummer rotunda (logical counterpart)
and back again, and helped me find names for the sun horse
CA LAB meaning sky CA cold LAB
naming the winter sun horse,
accounting for gallop, and German Klepper
for an old and tired horse
CA BEL or CA BEL IAS
meaning sky CA warm BEL healing IAS,
naming the lovely spring sun horse,
the warm sun of spring healing
ailments of a long and harsh winter
CA BAL meaning sky CA hot BAL
naming the summer sun horse,
accounting for Latin caballus 'horse'
(etymology unexplained says my dictionary)
Hear them run
CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB ...
CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL ...
CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL ...
Postscript. I like the book mentioned above (Leiden 21) and found
a precious information. Petri Kallio says in his paper that a Finn by
the name of Daniel Europaeus 'truly launched' the Indo-Uralic hypothesis.
He was from Savitaipale in SE Finland, while the family of his father
probably came originally from Äyrääpä Latinized Europa Europaeus.
Äyrääpä goes along with OIR OC CO Europa AIR OC CO Europa in the
context of Syrian / Minoan astronomy. Lunisolar calendars are the spine
of Magdalenian. Two of them are encoded in the myth of Minotaur and
in the round stone kernos in the royal court of Mallia. Minoan bull leaping
had been the symbol of astronomy
http://www.seshat.ch/home/lasco23.htm origin of Europa
Early mathematics and visual language are integral parts of the alternative
approach called Magdalenian.
***
Daniel Europaeus, credited with having 'truly launched' the Indo-Uralic
hypothesis (Petri Kallio, Leiden 21), in a clinch with academe he called
'ossified', can partly be confirmed from my side.
Finnish aurinko 'sun' and a dive into the Kalevala (to which Europaeus
contributed the Kullervu cycle) told me that the Proto-Finns had once
come from the Goebekli Tepe region via the Aral Sea and settled in the
Middle Ural, region of Perm and Jekaterinburg, geographical latitude
ca. 58 degrees.
In the Bronze Age, a flat horizon provided, the midsummer sun rose 50
degrees north of due east, while the northern lunar extreme was 60 degrees
north of due east.
Angles of 60 degrees (and regular polygons of six corners and sides)
are easily constructed. 50 degrees north of due east means 40 degrees
east of due north. Angles of 40 degrees (and regular polygons of nine
corners and sides) can be obtained by means of the rectangle 7 by 10.
Draw the diagonals. Their angles are practically 70-110-70-110 degrees.
Now subtract 70 from 110 and you get 40 degrees.
Years earlier I derived a Pashupati lunisolar calendar from the Goebekli
Tepe calendar: 90 days of the tiger, 90 days of the elephant, 3 midsummer
days of Pashupati, 90 days of the rhinoceros, 90 days of the buffalo,
2 and occasionally 3 midwinter days of Pashupati's wife, in all 365 days
of a regular year, and 366 days of an occasional leap year. While 21
continuous periods of 90 days are 1,890 days and correspond to 64
lunations or synodic months.
Looking out for stars representing the four seasons (along my story of
Golden Boy) made me find Algol as eye of the tiger, Vega as eye of the
elephant, Arcturus as eye of the rhinocerso, and Procyon as eye of the
buffalo.
Draw the connecting lines Algol-- Arcturus and Vega--Procyon and you find
practically the angles 110-70-110-70 degrees, while the two lines intersect
closely above Thuban, then pole star, abode of Pashupati.
The angles of these lines correspond to the diagonals of the rectangle
7 by 10.
And now one more surprise. Daniel Europaeus "regarded the numerals for
'7', '10', '100' and '1000' as his strongest evidence for Indo-Uralic"
(Petri Kallio). 7 and 10 - numbers of a heavenly geometry.
***
Considering the rectangle 7 by 10 in the context of the previous message
we may have a look at Finnish tivas 'heaven' kymmenen '10' seitsemän '7'
and maa 'earth'.
Finnish tivas Hieroglyphic Luwian taipas 'heaven' can suggest Magdalenian
TYR PAS meaning the one who overcomes in the double sense of rule and give
TYR everywhere (in a plain) PAS, here, south and north of me, east and
west of me, under and above me (on earth but also from a god in the sky),
in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all, every' pente penta- 'five' and
Finnish viisi 'five'. TYR became emphatic Middle Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos
Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus. The shift
from Y to EY might have a parallel in Y > ai in Luwian taipas 'heaven'.
Another Luwian derivative of TYR PAS is Taruwisa 'Troy', ancient overcomer
on the crossing of once important tradeways (S-N, E-W). TYR PAS in the
sense of TYR SsEYR Sseus Zeus everywhere PAS has a strongly polished
derivative in French temps 'time, weather' that overcome everybody anywhere.
Inverse PAS TYR became English weather, while (TYR PA)Sää may have
become Finnish sää 'weather'
MUC named a bull, inverse CUM a group of bull hunters, and MAN originally
the right hand, preserved in Latin manus French main, and as pars pro toto
in English man, for example farm hand. MUC CUM may have named a group
of
ten bull hunters, the master bull hunter MAS carrying out the all deciding
first blow (a small man before a huge bull drawn in the cave Le Gabillou)
whereupon the others closed in. CUM MAN Finnish kymmenen 'ten (men
in a bull hunting group or 'company')'. The bull was also a symbol of the moon,
bull hunting became a symbol of astronomy, and bull leaping the symbol of
Minoan astronomy.
PAS means everywhere (in a plain), inverse SAP everywhere (in space), here,
south and north of me, east and west of me, under and above me, in all seven
places, wherefrom words for seven in many languages. SAP MAN might have
become Finnish seitsemän, indicating the seven places of human activities,
not only the five places in a plain, also mines below, hills or mountains
above. MAN DhAG meaning hand MAN able DhAG names the mind formed
by what we do with our hand, and the experiences we gained by being active
with our hands enable us to make a picture of the world in all seven places
in the mind. This might be the meaning of Finnish seitsemän 'seven'.
Magdalenian AMA means mother, DOM AMA TYR a Magdalenian camp DOM
ruled by a wise elder mother AMA in the function of the overcomer TYR.
Her divine emanation would have been Demeter, ruler of the earth and what
it brings forth, counterpart of TYR in the sky. DOM AMA TYR in the short form
of AMA could have become Finnish (A)MAa for the mother earth maa.
The alternative approach called MAgdalenian Mgdalenian is open and flexible,
of a poetic genius, and strong enough to carry the weight of an imposing language
tree (a higher-dimensional metaphorical tree allowing super-position).
***
only God can see the world as one - multi-dimensional approach -
Indo-Uralic (Leiden 21)
***
The secret of Magdalenian is to look at language the other way, not from
the present backward in time, instead from a remote past forward in time.
I find ever more derivatives of Magdalenian words almost every week.
Last week a further derivative of KOD meaning tent, hut, namely Swiss
Gade (final 'e' a schwa) 'shed, small barn'. And this week another
derivative of BIR meaning fur, namely -wear- -wor- in swear sworn
that may preserve a Stone Age ritual of taking an oath on a ceremonial
fur, later on replaced by a flag or the Bible, in sci.lang by textbooks.
Not being a sworn believer in sound algebra I am an Old Norse vargr
'felon, criminal; wolf' from *h2/3wergh- '+- commit a crime' - someone
who does not take an oath, or broke his oath, or swore on a wolf fur
instead of the ceremonial fur of a shaman or shamaness, meaning I don't
swear on them holy textbooks. I read and consult and estimate textbooks
but I don't consider them the whole truth, Latin veritas 'truth' one
more reference to the ceremonial BIR fur ver-, so I am regarded as
black sheep having a fur of different color, if not as a wolf wearing
a sheepskin.
***
Sworn believers in sound algebra can't look at language my way. Another
derivative of BIR meaning fur is English _for_ that originally named an
exchange: I give you a fur for this or that ... Furs had been a bare necessity
in the Ice Age, and if I remember correctly, sabel furs had been an official
currency in Poland until the early 20th century. BIR is also present in purse
and German Börse 'stock exchange'. Then of course in wear, wearing a fur coat,
and in bear, to bear a fur or leather bag, Greek byrsa 'hide, fur, leather'.
Semitic Bir and Beer named wells as places where fur and leather bags had been
filled with water, Beersheba 'village of the Seven Wells'. Consider also German
Brunnen 'well, spring, fountain'. A next generation of linguists will have
no problem looking at language that way, and will enjoy following the semantic
ramifications of early words. Young ones who can still remember the pleasure
they found in playing with words when they had been children.
The pioneers of Indo-European discovered that words in different languages
can have the same origin. After centuries of IE and PIE studies we may go
further and discover that also varieties of words in one and the same language
can share a common origin. In that sense Magdalenian is the natural expansion
of PIE.
I don't believe that several ten thousands of PIE roots had been created
ex nihilo; my understanding is that a few early words branched into the marvel
of present language, parallel to the evolution of material culture.
A language is a collective work of art, shaped by millions of people who
always liked to play with words, happily invented numerous variations,
tried out combinations, and preserved the best among both of them.
***
The structuralists from the middle of the past century understood language
as exchange. I'd say language mediates exchange, and a witness to that notion
is English for German für Dutch voor. If you buy something you give money,
in former times furs for what you want or need. If you go forward you echange
the former position for a new one, step by step by step. If you go backward
you regain the former positions, going in the direction of your back, Old
English rycc, German Rücken 'back' rückwärts 'backward'. German vorsichtig
'cautious, with caution' says that conditions have changed: instead of a free
way there is now an obstacle or a danger. Pre- in English precaution derives
from the permutation group of PIR meaning fire, PRI meaning turning smoke,
wherefrom Greek peri 'round about' and English pre- in precaution: you walk
around the obstacle or danger. I think the good old structuralists were right
about their deep notion of exchange. Their model was the exchange of women
between tribes; mine are furs traded for something one needed or wanted.
***
You can bear a fur bag. A pregnant woman bears a child, then gives birth to
a child called bairn in Scottland. The Vinca (Vincha) people in the Neolithic
Balkans worshiped a divine bear mother and bear nurse, with hundreds of
figurines, imploring the fierce protection of a bear mother for her cubs.
From Hellenistic Greece we know the custom of placing a newborn on a bear
fur, a custom that survived in parts of the Slavic world until the 20th century.
The opposite is the end of life. English bier and German Bahre suggest that
also dead people were laid on a bear fur, in the hope that the goddess might
give birth to a worthy soul in a heavenly beyond.
Marija Gimbutas: The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: "The image of the
Great Goddess of Life, Death and Regeneration in anthropomorphic form with
a projection of her powers through insects and animals - bee, butterfly, deer,
bear, toad, turtle, hedgehog and dog - was the outward symbol of a community
concerned with the problems of the life and death cycle."
The mortality of children and women in childbirth had been high in the Stone
Age, the blessings of modern medicine unknown and undreamed of, so people
implored the help and blessing of the Great Goddess of many shapes, among
them the divine bear mother.
Sound algebra works in an abstract way; Magdalenian requires empathy.
***
When you follow words backward in time along sound laws you end up with
isolated roots, for example the six homonyms *bher-. When I start from
a hypothetical early word like BIR meaning fur I see it branch into many
derivatives. BIR explains all six homonyms *bher-, as demonstrated in 2008,
and again recently. Also German Form und Farbe 'shape and color' derive
from BIR, furs having colors, mostly brown (*bher- 'brown') but also white,
gray, black, and reddish, and they have a distinct form, the four legs
accounting for English four German vier (*kwetwores 'four' from KOD BIR
naming a tent or hut KOD made from or covered with a hide BIR of four legs).
The Stone Age people cooked their meat and vegetabilia in a pit laid out
with a hide, whereupon hot stones from a nearby fire place were rolled into
the water and made it boil (*bher- 'boil'). The Norse berserks applied
hallucinogenic herbs mixed with fat to the inside of their fur coats,
the drug was absorbed by the skin and made them go wild before a battle
(BIR ber-). From this ghastly practice we can infer a healing method,
shamans and shamanesses mixing medical herbs with fat and smearing the
ointment on the inside of a warming fur and covering a patient (*bher-
'heal'). English virgin suggests BIR GYN meaning fur woman, maidens
helping the shamaness by gathering herbs and berries, leaves, bark and
roots, carrying them in fur bags, and using them for making medicines,
ointments, and beverages. Chewing seeds of grasses, later on grains of
cereals, spitting them into a fur bag and making them germinate was the
origin of beer German Bier. Hungarian bor 'wine' indicates berry wine
made in the same way. The emblem of the shamaness GYN BIR who taught
and guided her maiden helpers would have been juniper from which Gin is
made, preserved in the female given name Ginevra Jennifer. Their goddess
would haven been the divine fur giver BIR GID whose sisters had been the
fire giver PIR GID and fertility giver BRI GID. All three of them became
the powerful Celtic triple-goddess Brigid. While BRI GID alone became the
Greek love goddess
BRI GID aBRI GIDe Aphrodite
BRI also accounts for English free German frei. Google employees are free
to spend one fifth of their working time on ideas and projects of their own,
which results in precious contributions benefitting the company.
***
Answering the reproach that I offer "nothing that anyone has ever found
useful"
My reconstructions of early and very early mathematical methods were
useful when I gave free lessons for two care organizations. They are useful
in establishing a fair history of civilization. My interpretations of art works
from various epochs will be useful for art historians. And my linguistic
work will become useful for a next generation of linguists who can also
read visual language, estimate the rich legacy of the Stone Age in the form
of cave art and rock art and mobile art, recognize symbols also in early
literature, and apply the methods of early mathematics when it comes to
calendars and symbolical numbers for example in the Bible.
Here again my triangle of language, a cultural program in nuce, summary
of half a century of studies and work in several fields. Language can be
seen as a triangle whose corners are
life with needs and wishes
mathematics as logic of building and maintaining
based on the formula a = a
art as human measure in a technical world
following the logic of equal unequal
Goethe: 'All is equal, all unequal ...'
a formula known to artists of all times
But of course my work is useless for worshippers of holy textbooks who
believe to own the Truth.
While the natural sciences make enourmous progress the humanities,
caught in a feudalistic bubble, wobble along behind the present (and
sci.lang behind the humanities, proactively ignoring decades old insights
from the humanities in academe). I aspire to lessen the gap, a fair
history of civilization being a sine qua non of a prospering global society.
Considering the size of the task with all the massive obstacles in the way
I came far, so far that others can take over.
Once again: I don't write for sci.langers who can only argue on meta-levels
and drop verdicts from above.
***
Galilei famously wrote that the book of nature is written in the language of
mathematics ... God may understand all of nature in mathematical terms,
while we deciphered only the first lines on the first page of the first volume
on the first shelf in the first hall of the divine library.
Next to the mathematical logic of a = a we need the logic of equal unequal.
Do we have a free will? or is our will determined by the laws of physiology,
neurology, economy, and so on?
Leonardo da Vinci posed a version of this question in his mural of the Last
Supper in the former refectory of the monastery Santa Maria delle Grazie
at Milan. Jesus announced that one of his disciples will betray him. They
are shocked. Who is the culprit? While asking for his name they reveal him
as if coincidentally with glances and gestures. Peter, turning toward John
the Younger, even places the knob of his knife on Judas' back and presses
him toward the table, as if trying to push him out of the picture space,
yet the long table holds him back as a barrier - also the traitor was needed
in God's plan of saving humankind.
The virtual picture space is a perfect prolongation of the real space,
however, the lines of the perspectives coincide only when seen from a special
viewpoint: some nine meters before the wall painting (no fresco), in a height
of some four and a half meters, opposite of Christ - only he can see the world
as one. From every other vantage point accessible to a visitor the lines of
the perspective are breaking.
The same notion can be gleaned from the background of the Mona Lisa,
an allegory of seeing. On either side of her appears a lake, but while we
look at the front of the lake on the left side, we look down on the lake
on the right side. So we have two perspectives which are incompatible
and made an art critic assume that Leonardo was a schizophrenic. No,
he made a philosophical statement: we can't see the world as one.
Light as a physical phenomenon has a double nature: wave and particle stream.
Relativity theory and quantum dynamics are still incompatible. The dream of
a Theory Of Everything remains an illusion. If we ever get something like it,
an alternative theory will arise ... Only God can see the world as one.
Sound algebra leads backward in time, whereas Magdalenian proceeds from a
remote past forward in time. Also these are contradictory and complementary
perspectives. We can't solve all problems with a single method, and if it is
a most successful one - in the given case the comparative method.
By the way, the Last Supper by Leonardo is a perfect illustration of equal
unequal. The virtual picture space is of a strict symmetry, while one wall
is dark, the other bright. We see Christ in the middle at the long table,
beside him six and six disciples, groups of three and three men, the
outer groups acting collectively, the figures of the inner groups close
to Christ individually. There is great variation in the way they behave
and reveal the traitor unconsciously. Jacobus the Elder points with his
index finger to the back of the head of Judas, if only in the reduction of
the virtual space to the picture plane. One second later John the Younger
will open his eyes and look directly at Judas, traitor of the Lord.
***
Goethe favored a multi-dimensional approach
Willst Du ins Unendliche schreiten
Geh nur im Endlichen nach allen Seiten
If you wish to get an idea of the infinite, explore the finite in all directions.
Currently I study Leiden 21 on the Indo-Anatolian and Indo-Uralic hypotheses.
My own approach is very different. I go for simple words of a way older
language, the grammar of body language and involving direct context,
rely on cave art and rock art and mobile art, legacy of the Stone Age,
and use early mathematics for the reconstruction of calendars.
My Magdalenian experiment began with an amazing lunisolar calendar
in early 2005, reconstructed from symbols in the Lascaux cave, moon bull
and sun horse and a pair of opposing midwinter ibices (Marie E.P. König),
and from accompanying ideograms. This calender made me recognize the
axial gallery of Lascaux as representation of a year, from the midwinter
niche (König) to the glorious midsummer rotunda (logical counterpart)
and back again, and helped me find names for the sun horse
CA LAB meaning sky CA cold LAB
naming the winter sun horse,
accounting for gallop, and German Klepper
for an old and tired horse
CA BEL or CA BEL IAS
meaning sky CA warm BEL healing IAS,
naming the lovely spring sun horse,
the warm sun of spring healing
ailments of a long and harsh winter
CA BAL meaning sky CA hot BAL
naming the summer sun horse,
accounting for Latin caballus 'horse'
(etymology unexplained says my dictionary)
Hear them run
CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB ...
CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL ...
CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL ...
Postscript. I like the book mentioned above (Leiden 21) and found
a precious information. Petri Kallio says in his paper that a Finn by
the name of Daniel Europaeus 'truly launched' the Indo-Uralic hypothesis.
He was from Savitaipale in SE Finland, while the family of his father
probably came originally from Äyrääpä Latinized Europa Europaeus.
Äyrääpä goes along with OIR OC CO Europa AIR OC CO Europa in the
context of Syrian / Minoan astronomy. Lunisolar calendars are the spine
of Magdalenian. Two of them are encoded in the myth of Minotaur and
in the round stone kernos in the royal court of Mallia. Minoan bull leaping
had been the symbol of astronomy
http://www.seshat.ch/home/lasco23.htm origin of Europa
Early mathematics and visual language are integral parts of the alternative
approach called Magdalenian.
***
Daniel Europaeus, credited with having 'truly launched' the Indo-Uralic
hypothesis (Petri Kallio, Leiden 21), in a clinch with academe he called
'ossified', can partly be confirmed from my side.
Finnish aurinko 'sun' and a dive into the Kalevala (to which Europaeus
contributed the Kullervu cycle) told me that the Proto-Finns had once
come from the Goebekli Tepe region via the Aral Sea and settled in the
Middle Ural, region of Perm and Jekaterinburg, geographical latitude
ca. 58 degrees.
In the Bronze Age, a flat horizon provided, the midsummer sun rose 50
degrees north of due east, while the northern lunar extreme was 60 degrees
north of due east.
Angles of 60 degrees (and regular polygons of six corners and sides)
are easily constructed. 50 degrees north of due east means 40 degrees
east of due north. Angles of 40 degrees (and regular polygons of nine
corners and sides) can be obtained by means of the rectangle 7 by 10.
Draw the diagonals. Their angles are practically 70-110-70-110 degrees.
Now subtract 70 from 110 and you get 40 degrees.
Years earlier I derived a Pashupati lunisolar calendar from the Goebekli
Tepe calendar: 90 days of the tiger, 90 days of the elephant, 3 midsummer
days of Pashupati, 90 days of the rhinoceros, 90 days of the buffalo,
2 and occasionally 3 midwinter days of Pashupati's wife, in all 365 days
of a regular year, and 366 days of an occasional leap year. While 21
continuous periods of 90 days are 1,890 days and correspond to 64
lunations or synodic months.
Looking out for stars representing the four seasons (along my story of
Golden Boy) made me find Algol as eye of the tiger, Vega as eye of the
elephant, Arcturus as eye of the rhinocerso, and Procyon as eye of the
buffalo.
Draw the connecting lines Algol-- Arcturus and Vega--Procyon and you find
practically the angles 110-70-110-70 degrees, while the two lines intersect
closely above Thuban, then pole star, abode of Pashupati.
The angles of these lines correspond to the diagonals of the rectangle
7 by 10.
And now one more surprise. Daniel Europaeus "regarded the numerals for
'7', '10', '100' and '1000' as his strongest evidence for Indo-Uralic"
(Petri Kallio). 7 and 10 - numbers of a heavenly geometry.
***
Considering the rectangle 7 by 10 in the context of the previous message
we may have a look at Finnish tivas 'heaven' kymmenen '10' seitsemän '7'
and maa 'earth'.
Finnish tivas Hieroglyphic Luwian taipas 'heaven' can suggest Magdalenian
TYR PAS meaning the one who overcomes in the double sense of rule and give
TYR everywhere (in a plain) PAS, here, south and north of me, east and
west of me, under and above me (on earth but also from a god in the sky),
in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all, every' pente penta- 'five' and
Finnish viisi 'five'. TYR became emphatic Middle Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos
Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus. The shift
from Y to EY might have a parallel in Y > ai in Luwian taipas 'heaven'.
Another Luwian derivative of TYR PAS is Taruwisa 'Troy', ancient overcomer
on the crossing of once important tradeways (S-N, E-W). TYR PAS in the
sense of TYR SsEYR Sseus Zeus everywhere PAS has a strongly polished
derivative in French temps 'time, weather' that overcome everybody anywhere.
Inverse PAS TYR became English weather, while (TYR PA)Sää may have
become Finnish sää 'weather'
MUC named a bull, inverse CUM a group of bull hunters, and MAN originally
the right hand, preserved in Latin manus French main, and as pars pro toto
in English man, for example farm hand. MUC CUM may have named a group
of
ten bull hunters, the master bull hunter MAS carrying out the all deciding
first blow (a small man before a huge bull drawn in the cave Le Gabillou)
whereupon the others closed in. CUM MAN Finnish kymmenen 'ten (men
in a bull hunting group or 'company')'. The bull was also a symbol of the moon,
bull hunting became a symbol of astronomy, and bull leaping the symbol of
Minoan astronomy.
PAS means everywhere (in a plain), inverse SAP everywhere (in space), here,
south and north of me, east and west of me, under and above me, in all seven
places, wherefrom words for seven in many languages. SAP MAN might have
become Finnish seitsemän, indicating the seven places of human activities,
not only the five places in a plain, also mines below, hills or mountains
above. MAN DhAG meaning hand MAN able DhAG names the mind formed
by what we do with our hand, and the experiences we gained by being active
with our hands enable us to make a picture of the world in all seven places
in the mind. This might be the meaning of Finnish seitsemän 'seven'.
Magdalenian AMA means mother, DOM AMA TYR a Magdalenian camp DOM
ruled by a wise elder mother AMA in the function of the overcomer TYR.
Her divine emanation would have been Demeter, ruler of the earth and what
it brings forth, counterpart of TYR in the sky. DOM AMA TYR in the short form
of AMA could have become Finnish (A)MAa for the mother earth maa.
The alternative approach called MAgdalenian Mgdalenian is open and flexible,
of a poetic genius, and strong enough to carry the weight of an imposing language
tree (a higher-dimensional metaphorical tree allowing super-position).
***
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 12, 2019, 2:21:13 AM12/12/19
to
On 2019-12-12 07:14:06 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
> Answering the reproach that I offer "nothing that anyone has ever found
> useful"
>
> My reconstructions of early and very early mathematical methods were
> useful when I gave free lessons for two care organizations.
We know that _you_ think your musings are useful. But you've never
> Answering the reproach that I offer "nothing that anyone has ever found
> useful"
>
> My reconstructions of early and very early mathematical methods were
> useful when I gave free lessons for two care organizations.
offered any evidence that anyone else thinks so.
> They are useful
> in establishing a fair history of civilization. My interpretations of
> linguisticwork will become useful ...
You're speculating about the future; my comment referred to the past.
--
athel
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 12, 2019, 2:55:32 AM12/12/19
to
piece of that Stone Age legacy means.
Marie E.P. König identifies the bull of Lascaux as moon bull, the horse
as sun horse, the descending small black horses in the niche at the rear
end of the axial gallery as winter sun horse, the pair of opposing ibices
as midwinter emblem, hence the niche as midwinter symbol.
Having studied menhirs and then the Lascaux cave for years I found an
amazing lunisolar calendar encoded in two ideograms of the midwinter niche
(in early 2005), and this calendar turned the axial gallery with the
midwinter niche (König) and the rotunda (logical counterpart) into the
representation of a year.
The Lascaux horse is not a common horse but a mythological creature
of the sky. What could have been the word for sky?
Richard Fester compiled a map of the Guyenne and Lower Rhône Valley
with about two hundred dots for villages whose names end on -ac or -acq,
for example Rouffignac and Cognac. He proposed AC or ACQ as word for water.
I adopted AC for an expanse of land with water, more generally for Earth.
Inverse CA may then have named the sky, Old Latin ca(elum) and English
he(aven).
Is there a word for the horse beginning on CA ? Yes, Spanish caballo
French cheval from Latin caballus (of unexplained etymology, says my
Latin dictionary. What can -ballo mean? Richard Fester compiled words
that vary BAL for heat and BEL for warm. So we have CA BAL meaning
sky CA hot BAL that became Latin caballus and survives in Spanish
caballo and French cheval. CA BAL would have named the red mare of
the early midsummer morning rising above the horizon of the ledge
in the glorious rotunda of Lascaux.
Inverse forms have related meanings (first law of Magdalenian). The inverse
of BAL for hot is then LAB for cold. CA LAB meaning sky CA cold LAB would
thus be the winter sun horse, evoking gallop, and German Klepper for an
old and tired horse - the descending line of horses in the midwinter niche.
What about the lovely pair of 'Chinese' horses (Prjewalski horses) in the
axial gallery, coming from the midwinter niche, heading for the midsummer
rotunda? Richard Fester mentions Basque BELLE 'warmth'. Hence we get
CA BEL meaning sky CA warm BEL for the spring sun horse. This was confirmed
one year later (in 2006) when I found the development ABelios AFelios
Helios, the Greek sun god with a quadriga of horses (probably in one of
the Proceedings of the Annual UCLA Indo-European Conference). We have
then CA.BEL ABelios AFelios Helios indicating an alternative longer name
for the spring sun horse, CA BEL IAS, the warm spring sun healing IAS
ailments of a long and harsh winter, the inverse of IAS being SAI for life.
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 12, 2019, 6:13:37 AM12/12/19
to
Le jeudi 12 décembre 2019 08:14:08 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> BIR meaning fur again - word branching - answering a reproach -
> only God can see the world as one - multi-dimensional approach -
> Indo-Uralic (Leiden 21)
>
> ***
>
> The secret of Magdalenian is to look at language the other way, not from
> the present backward in time, instead from a remote past forward in time.
> I find ever more derivatives of Magdalenian words almost every week.
> Last week a further derivative of KOD meaning tent, hut, namely Swiss
> Gade (final 'e' a schwa) 'shed, small barn'.
Interesting,
> BIR meaning fur again - word branching - answering a reproach -
> only God can see the world as one - multi-dimensional approach -
> Indo-Uralic (Leiden 21)
>
> ***
>
> The secret of Magdalenian is to look at language the other way, not from
> the present backward in time, instead from a remote past forward in time.
> I find ever more derivatives of Magdalenian words almost every week.
> Last week a further derivative of KOD meaning tent, hut, namely Swiss
> Gade (final 'e' a schwa) 'shed, small barn'.
is there a received etymology for Swiss Gade "shed"?
Personally, I would rather compare with English shed < earlier shadde and Italian casa (with devoicing).
If the comparanda are accepted, then English is from s-ghadh- with s- mobile, which means all these words are Kartveloid substratic words.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 12, 2019, 7:39:38 AM12/12/19
to
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 2:55:32 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> You can only transform cave art into words when you know what a coherent
> piece of that Stone Age legacy means.
>
> Marie E.P. König identifies the bull of Lascaux as moon bull, the horse
> as sun horse, the descending small black horses in the niche at the rear
> end of the axial gallery as winter sun horse, the pair of opposing ibices
> as midwinter emblem, hence the niche as midwinter symbol.
I wonder whether the vaunted Swiss Radio has brought Franz the news of
> You can only transform cave art into words when you know what a coherent
> piece of that Stone Age legacy means.
>
> Marie E.P. König identifies the bull of Lascaux as moon bull, the horse
> as sun horse, the descending small black horses in the niche at the rear
> end of the axial gallery as winter sun horse, the pair of opposing ibices
> as midwinter emblem, hence the niche as midwinter symbol.
cave art from Indonesia dating tens of thousands of years earlier than
any known from Europe ... with a several-meter-long narrative painting
and figures combining human and animal characteristics.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 13, 2019, 3:22:31 AM12/13/19
to
> Finnish tivas Hieroglyphic Luwian taipas 'heaven' can suggest Magdalenian
> TYR PAS meaning the one who overcomes in the double sense of rule and give
> TYR everywhere (in a plain) PAS, here, south and north of me, east and
> west of me, under and above me (on earth but also from a god in the sky),
> in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all, every' pente penta- 'five' and
> Finnish viisi 'five'. TYR became emphatic Middle Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos
> Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus. The shift
> from Y to EY might have a parallel in Y > ai in Luwian taipas 'heaven'.
> Another Luwian derivative of TYR PAS is Taruwisa 'Troy', ancient overcomer
> on the crossing of once important tradeways (S-N, E-W). TYR PAS in the
> sense of TYR SsEYR Sseus Zeus everywhere PAS has a strongly polished
> derivative in French temps 'time, weather' that overcome everybody anywhere.
> Inverse PAS TYR became English weather, while (TYR PA)Sää may have
> become Finnish sää 'weather'
>
presence of divine powers that overcome in the double sense of rule
and give. TYR PAS has another Luwian derivative in Taruwisa 'Troy',
an overcomer of the Bronze Age, on the crossing of important
tradeways (S-N and E-W), early Troy identified as Pleasant Scherie
in Homer by Eberhard Zangger, helping foreign sailors navigate
through the perilous waters of the Dardanelles. TYR emphatic Middle
Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm
Larfeld) Homeric Zeus overcame everybody everywhere PAS in weather
and time. A strongly polished version of TYR PAS is French temps
'weather, time', while PAS TYR is present in English weather,
and (TYR PA)sää might have named the Finnish weather sää.
If TYR PAS became Finnish taivas, then maybe TYR CA aika 'time'.
TYR CA names the overcomer TYR in the sky CA who overcomes
everybody everywhere PAS in weather and time that rule our lives
but are also given to us in order that we make the best of them.
A further correction: Daniel Europaeus contributed the _Kullervo_ cycle
of oral Poems to the Finnish national Epic Kalevala.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 13, 2019, 3:31:14 AM12/13/19
to
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 12:13:37 PM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>
> Interesting,
> is there a received etymology for Swiss Gade "shed"?
> Personally, I would rather compare with English shed < earlier shadde and Italian casa (with devoicing).
> If the comparanda are accepted, then English is from s-ghadh- with s- mobile, which means all these words are Kartveloid substratic words.
You may look up the Idiotikon, which is the large dictionary of my Swiss
>
> Interesting,
> is there a received etymology for Swiss Gade "shed"?
> Personally, I would rather compare with English shed < earlier shadde and Italian casa (with devoicing).
> If the comparanda are accepted, then English is from s-ghadh- with s- mobile, which means all these words are Kartveloid substratic words.
language. I etymologized Gade for myself. KOD for tent, hut must be a very
ancient word, present in English cot and cottage, hut, house, castel, city,
coast (the shores 'housing' an island or continent, and of course in the
modest shed, German Hütte and Kate 'Hut', Sanskrit kuda 'fortress', and
a plethora of Tamil and other southeastern words for village (can render
a list, considered non-IE words). Then there are many metaphorical derivatives
like hut and hide and hood, hood as abbreviation of neighborhood returning
to the original meaning in the context of housing.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 13, 2019, 3:40:32 AM12/13/19
to
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 1:39:38 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> I wonder whether the vaunted Swiss Radio has brought Franz the news of
> cave art from Indonesia dating tens of thousands of years earlier than
> any known from Europe ... with a several-meter-long narrative painting
> and figures combining human and animal characteristics.
Hand impressions and negatives from Indonesia are 60,000 years old, and then we
>
> I wonder whether the vaunted Swiss Radio has brought Franz the news of
> cave art from Indonesia dating tens of thousands of years earlier than
> any known from Europe ... with a several-meter-long narrative painting
> and figures combining human and animal characteristics.
have Neanderthal cave paintings, most puzzling. Yesterday I heard (on the radio)
that language is either a million (or maybe twenty million) years old, see
an article in Science Advanced. Baboons in half liberty were observed and
showed signs of proto-vowels, i e a o as I remember, their larynx has
been lowered, so they had enough volume to both breath and 'speak' - the phone
connection of the radio moderator with the author of that paper was very bad,
I understood only a part of what he said. You can find the interview online
under RTR (radio de la Suisse Romande) program cqfd (ce qui'l fallait
démonstrer, quod erat demonstrandum) from December 12, 2019. Or look up
Science Advanced, maybe online. Further papers on the topic will follow.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 13, 2019, 3:48:21 AM12/13/19
to
https://www.rts.ch/play/radio/cqfd/audio/les-origines-de-la-parole?id=10900646
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 13, 2019, 4:18:16 AM12/13/19
to
Le vendredi 13 décembre 2019 09:31:14 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 12:13:37 PM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> >
> > Interesting,
> > is there a received etymology for Swiss Gade "shed"?
> > Personally, I would rather compare with English shed < earlier shadde and Italian casa (with devoicing).
> > If the comparanda are accepted, then English is from s-ghadh- with s- mobile, which means all these words are Kartveloid substratic words.
>
> You may look up the Idiotikon, which is the large dictionary of my Swiss
> language.
Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does not sound that good...
> On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 12:13:37 PM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> >
> > Interesting,
> > is there a received etymology for Swiss Gade "shed"?
> > Personally, I would rather compare with English shed < earlier shadde and Italian casa (with devoicing).
> > If the comparanda are accepted, then English is from s-ghadh- with s- mobile, which means all these words are Kartveloid substratic words.
>
> You may look up the Idiotikon, which is the large dictionary of my Swiss
> language.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 14, 2019, 3:10:16 AM12/14/19
to
On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>
> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does not sound that good...
>
It's always good for a joke. The word comes from Greek idiotaes meaning
>
> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does not sound that good...
>
private. In the 19th century many dictionaries were called Idiotikon.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 14, 2019, 3:26:00 AM12/14/19
to
Sylvain Levi Jean Prazyluski
University of Calcutta 1929,
reprint 'Scholar select'
Munda words for village - Santali ato, Mahde ato, Mundari hatu, Birhar hato,
Danghar hato - suggesting *katu for village.
Indonesian kuta 'capital, fortress, town, village. In Java kuta 'court,
royal habitation'. Malay and Achin kuta, Minangkabao koto, Batak huta.
Munda terms from *katu, and Indonesian terms from kuta.
Sanskrit kudja 'wall' and kuta 'fortress' - added by Sylvain Levi "to the
already long list of Indo-Aryan words borrowed from the non-Aryan languages."
---
In my opinion those words and names derive from Magdalenian KOD meaning
tent, hut, a word of very many derivatives, also present in Kut- of Kutaisi
in Georgia (Caucasus).
The index of my not very large world atlas counts 96 (ninety-six) towns Kot-,
beginning with Kota in India.
Finnish katta 'roof, ceiling' kata 'Suomi hut' koti 'home, house, flat'
kotiin 'homeward, home' kotona 'at home'.
Ir-kut-sk and other towns in the region of Lake Baikal and adjacent Mongolia.
Years ago someone in sci.lang told me that qud names a municipal district
in China.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 14, 2019, 3:37:28 AM12/14/19
to
white bull symbolizing a full moon coinciding with the summer solstice
(our June 21), ideal start of an eight-year cycle in the lunisolar
calendar of Lascaux.
The summer sun horse would have been called CA BAL meaning sky CA hot BAL,
and the full moon CA LUN, sky CA of the full round form LUN, Latin luna
'moon' and Greek selaenae 'moon'. The inverse form LUN CA might perhaps
account for Finnish lenkki 'ring, loop', and LUN for Latin plenus 'full',
LUN -len- also present in English plenty.
And then we have the calendar, from Latin Calendae naming the first day
of each month, when taxes were due. A month had originally been a lunar
period of time, a lunation or synodic month counted in the 30 29 30 mode.
Yes, we can find words for symbols in cave art - provided we know what they
mean.
CA LAB winter sun horse
CA BEL spring sun horse CA BEL IAS
CA BAL summer sun horse
CA LUN full moon
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 14, 2019, 3:47:19 AM12/14/19
to
> of Kutaisi
> in Georgia (Caucasus).
>
> The index of my not very large world atlas counts 96 (ninety-six) towns Kot-,
> beginning with Kota in India.
>
> Finnish katta 'roof, ceiling' kata 'Suomi hut' koti 'home, house, flat'
> kotiin 'homeward, home' kotona 'at home'.
>
> Ir-kut-sk and other towns in the region of Lake Baikal and adjacent Mongolia.
>
> Years ago someone in sci.lang told me that qud names a municipal district
> in China.
And Al Quds Al Sharif?
> in Georgia (Caucasus).
>
> The index of my not very large world atlas counts 96 (ninety-six) towns Kot-,
> beginning with Kota in India.
>
> Finnish katta 'roof, ceiling' kata 'Suomi hut' koti 'home, house, flat'
> kotiin 'homeward, home' kotona 'at home'.
>
> Ir-kut-sk and other towns in the region of Lake Baikal and adjacent Mongolia.
>
> Years ago someone in sci.lang told me that qud names a municipal district
> in China.
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 14, 2019, 4:00:08 AM12/14/19
to
On 2019-12-14 08:10:14 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
> On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>
>> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does
>> not sound that good...
>>
>
> It's always good for a joke.
Once again showing your deafness about language. You think dictionaries
> On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>
>> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does
>> not sound that good...
>>
>
> It's always good for a joke.
are jokes?
> The word comes from Greek idiotaes meaning
> private. In the 19th century many dictionaries were called Idiotikon.
would transliterate as idiotaes.
--
athel
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 14, 2019, 4:03:31 AM12/14/19
to
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek
> would transliterate as idiotaes.
Idiotaes means private person, as in English private for a private soldier,
> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek
> would transliterate as idiotaes.
and Idiotika were dictionaries of private languages, apart from the standard
language.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 14, 2019, 4:17:09 AM12/14/19
to
On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
>> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>
> Idiotaes means private person,
Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
>> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>
> Idiotaes means private person,
in Liddell and Scott.
> as in English private for a private soldier,
> and Idiotika were dictionaries of private languages, apart from the standard
> language.
usage. Not what I would call "many dictionaries".
--
athel
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 14, 2019, 5:44:22 AM12/14/19
to
Le samedi 14 décembre 2019 10:17:09 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>
> > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
> > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >
> >> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
> >
> > Idiotaes means private person,
>
> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> in Liddell and Scott.
yes, it's obvious idiotaes is just as impossible a Greek word as Sseyr...
> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>
> > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
> > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >
> >> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
> >
> > Idiotaes means private person,
>
> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> in Liddell and Scott.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 14, 2019, 6:53:23 AM12/14/19
to
Sat, 14 Dec 2019 00:10:14 -0800 (PST): Franz Gnaedinger
<fr...@bluemail.ch> scribeva:
True and I knew.
<fr...@bluemail.ch> scribeva:
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 14, 2019, 6:56:27 AM12/14/19
to
Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:00:05 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>On 2019-12-14 08:10:14 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>
>> On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does
>>> not sound that good...
>>>
>>
>> It's always good for a joke.
>
>Once again showing your deafness about language. You think dictionaries
>are jokes?
You seem to be deafer than Franz here.
>> The word comes from Greek idiotaes meaning
>> private. In the 19th century many dictionaries were called Idiotikon.
>
>I suppose you mean ?????????, which only someone ignorant of Greek
>would transliterate as idiotaes.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiotikon
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Idiotikon
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/idioticon
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>On 2019-12-14 08:10:14 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>
>> On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does
>>> not sound that good...
>>>
>>
>> It's always good for a joke.
>
>Once again showing your deafness about language. You think dictionaries
>are jokes?
>> The word comes from Greek idiotaes meaning
>> private. In the 19th century many dictionaries were called Idiotikon.
>
>would transliterate as idiotaes.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiotikon
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Idiotikon
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/idioticon
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 14, 2019, 7:07:51 AM12/14/19
to
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>
> > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
> > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >
> >> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
> >
> > Idiotaes means private person,
>
> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> in Liddell and Scott.
ιδιώτης
> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>
> > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
> > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >
> >> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
> >
> > Idiotaes means private person,
>
> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> in Liddell and Scott.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%8E%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
Possibly sources in German, seeing that Greek η in a remote past was pronounced as a long, open e sound, transcribe this in Latin script using a sign ä, inspired by German words like prägen and schräg, which (in some people’s pronunciation) have such a sound.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 14, 2019, 7:09:40 AM12/14/19
to
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 1:07:51 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
> >
> > > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
> > > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > >
> > >> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
> > >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
> > >
> > > Idiotaes means private person,
> >
> > Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> > in Liddell and Scott.
>
> ιδιώτης
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%8E%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
>
> Possibly sources in German, seeing that Greek η in a remote past was pronounced as a long, open e sound, transcribe this in Latin script using a sign ä, inspired by German words like prägen and schräg, which (in some people’s pronunciation) have such a sound.
>
> > > as in English private for a private soldier,
So the recommendation to Franz is, as before, to use Greek script for Greek words, Hebrew script for Hebrew words, etc. etc. It avoids misunderstandings.
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
> >
> > > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
> > > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > >
> > >> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
> > >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
> > >
> > > Idiotaes means private person,
> >
> > Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> > in Liddell and Scott.
>
> ιδιώτης
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%8E%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
>
> Possibly sources in German, seeing that Greek η in a remote past was pronounced as a long, open e sound, transcribe this in Latin script using a sign ä, inspired by German words like prägen and schräg, which (in some people’s pronunciation) have such a sound.
>
> > > as in English private for a private soldier,
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 14, 2019, 7:10:23 AM12/14/19
to
Sat, 14 Dec 2019 02:44:20 -0800 (PST): Arnaud Fournet
<fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
>Le samedi 14 décembre 2019 10:17:09 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>
>> > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
>> > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> >
>> >> I suppose you mean ?????????, which only someone ignorant of Greek>
<fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
>Le samedi 14 décembre 2019 10:17:09 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>
>> > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel
>> > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> >
>> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>> >
>> > Idiotaes means private person,
>>
>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
>> in Liddell and Scott.
>
>yes, it's obvious idiotaes is just as impossible a Greek word as Sseyr...
idiòtès.
>> >
>> > Idiotaes means private person,
>>
>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
>> in Liddell and Scott.
>
>yes, it's obvious idiotaes is just as impossible a Greek word as Sseyr...
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 14, 2019, 7:14:46 AM12/14/19
to
Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:56:24 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
scribeva:
>Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:00:05 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
><acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
>>On 2019-12-14 08:10:14 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>
>>> On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does
>>>> not sound that good...
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's always good for a joke.
>>
>>Once again showing your deafness about language. You think dictionaries
>>are jokes?
>
>You seem to be deafer than Franz here.
Coz the joke here, possible yet silly, is of course to assume or
suggest that an idioticon is a lexicon for idiots, which in fact it is
not.
scribeva:
>Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:00:05 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
><acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
>>On 2019-12-14 08:10:14 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>
>>> On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does
>>>> not sound that good...
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's always good for a joke.
>>
>>Once again showing your deafness about language. You think dictionaries
>>are jokes?
>
>You seem to be deafer than Franz here.
suggest that an idioticon is a lexicon for idiots, which in fact it is
not.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 14, 2019, 8:34:52 AM12/14/19
to
On 2019-12-14 11:56:24 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
> Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:00:05 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
>> On 2019-12-14 08:10:14 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>
>>> On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does
>>>> not sound that good...
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's always good for a joke.
>>
>> Once again showing your deafness about language. You think dictionaries
>> are jokes?
>
> You seem to be deafer than Franz here.
You think so? Franz is saying that calling a dictionary a joke is funny.
> Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:00:05 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
>> On 2019-12-14 08:10:14 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>
>>> On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 10:18:16 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I would not have chosen the word "Idiotikon", which does
>>>> not sound that good...
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's always good for a joke.
>>
>> Once again showing your deafness about language. You think dictionaries
>> are jokes?
>
> You seem to be deafer than Franz here.
>
>>> The word comes from Greek idiotaes meaning
>>> private. In the 19th century many dictionaries were called Idiotikon.
>>
>> I suppose you mean ?????????, which only someone ignorant of Greek
>> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiotikon
> https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Idiotikon
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/idioticon
Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
>>> The word comes from Greek idiotaes meaning
>>> private. In the 19th century many dictionaries were called Idiotikon.
>>
>> I suppose you mean ?????????, which only someone ignorant of Greek
>> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiotikon
> https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Idiotikon
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/idioticon
them, and neither can my computer.
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 14, 2019, 8:38:42 AM12/14/19
to
On 2019-12-14 12:09:38 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 1:07:51 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel
>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel> > >
>>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>> >
>>>>> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>>>>
>>>> Idiotaes means private person,
>>>
>>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that>
>>> > in Liddell and Scott.
>>
>> ιδιώτης
You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word is
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 1:07:51 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel
>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel> > >
>>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>> >
>>>>> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>>>>
>>>> Idiotaes means private person,
>>>
>>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that>
>>> > in Liddell and Scott.
>>
>> ιδιώτης
from Modern Greek?
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%8E%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
>>
>> Possibly sources in German, seeing that Greek η in a remote past was
>> pronounced as a long, open e sound, transcribe this in Latin script
>> using a sign ä, inspired by German words like prägen and schräg, which
>> (in some people’s pronunciation) have such a sound.
>>
>>>> as in English private for a private soldier,
>
> So the recommendation to Franz is, as before, to use Greek script for
> Greek words, Hebrew script for Hebrew words, etc. etc. It avoids
> misunderstandings.
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 14, 2019, 9:48:55 AM12/14/19
to
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 7:09:40 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> So the recommendation to Franz is, as before, to use Greek script for Greek words, Hebrew script for Hebrew words, etc. etc. It avoids misunderstandings.
But if he does that, you can't quote it -- see the mess you made of
> So the recommendation to Franz is, as before, to use Greek script for Greek words, Hebrew script for Hebrew words, etc. etc. It avoids misunderstandings.
Athel's silly attemp8t to come up with the underlying Greek.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 14, 2019, 9:52:07 AM12/14/19
to
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 8:34:52 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
> them, and neither can my computer.
Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to
> Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
> them, and neither can my computer.
be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 14, 2019, 11:32:02 AM12/14/19
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 14, 2019, 11:58:55 AM12/14/19
to
On 2019-12-14 16:32:01 +0000, Arnaud Fournet said:
> Le samedi 14 décembre 2019 15:52:07 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
pages that don't include any such word?
It might have been less obscure if he had written ä, but then he might
have been hit by the Swiss diacritic tax. Classical αι is traditionally
written as ae in English borrowings, η never is in my experience.
>
> Rien à branler des boches.
--
athel
> Le samedi 14 décembre 2019 15:52:07 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 8:34:52 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>>> Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og> >
>>> them, and neither can my computer.
>>
>> Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to>
>> be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
And what about my computer, should it be able to find "idiotaes" on web
>>
>>> Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og> >
>>> them, and neither can my computer.
>>
>> Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to>
>> be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
pages that don't include any such word?
It might have been less obscure if he had written ä, but then he might
have been hit by the Swiss diacritic tax. Classical αι is traditionally
written as ae in English borrowings, η never is in my experience.
>
> Rien à branler des boches.
--
athel
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 3:12:14 AM12/15/19
to
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 2:38:42 PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2019-12-14 12:09:38 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>
> > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 1:07:51 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel
> >> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
> >>>
> >>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel> > >
> >>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>> >
> >>>>> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
> >>>>
> >>>> Idiotaes means private person,
> >>>
> >>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that>
> >>> > in Liddell and Scott.
> >>
> >> ιδιώτης
>
> You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word is
> from Modern Greek?
I copied it 'as is' from Wiktionary, where it doesn’t have a breathing either. I know there isn’t a default in full diacritics Greek, but I think there should have been: no breathing means just the plain vowel, no h prepended.
> On 2019-12-14 12:09:38 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>
> > On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 1:07:51 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel
> >> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
> >>>
> >>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel> > >
> >>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of Greek>> >
> >>>>> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
> >>>>
> >>>> Idiotaes means private person,
> >>>
> >>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that>
> >>> > in Liddell and Scott.
> >>
> >> ιδιώτης
>
> You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word is
> from Modern Greek?
> >> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%8E%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
> >>
> >> Possibly sources in German, seeing that Greek η in a remote past was
> >> pronounced as a long, open e sound, transcribe this in Latin script
> >> using a sign ä, inspired by German words like prägen and schräg, which
> >> (in some people’s pronunciation) have such a sound.
>
> Maybe, but Franz was trying to write in English.
>
> >>
> >>>> as in English private for a private soldier,
> >
> > So the recommendation to Franz is, as before, to use Greek script for
> > Greek words, Hebrew script for Hebrew words, etc. etc. It avoids
> > misunderstandings.
>
> Do you think he knows how to do that?
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 3:13:36 AM12/15/19
to
2) Athel’s attempt wasn’t silly.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 3:19:44 AM12/15/19
to
Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:32:01 -0800 (PST): Arnaud Fournet
<fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
Foei, ga je mond spoelen!
(I find as an assembled translation: I don’t f***ing care the pins.
O wait, boches, not broches.
https://www.ensie.nl/scheldwoordenboek/boche
I don’t effing care about Huns. That’s what it means.)
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
<fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
(I find as an assembled translation: I don’t f***ing care the pins.
O wait, boches, not broches.
https://www.ensie.nl/scheldwoordenboek/boche
I don’t effing care about Huns. That’s what it means.)
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 3:26:27 AM12/15/19
to
Sat, 14 Dec 2019 14:34:48 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>>> I suppose you mean ?????????, which only someone ignorant of Greek
>>> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>>
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiotikon
>> https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Idiotikon
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/idioticon
>
>Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
>them, and neither can my computer.
I gave the etymology from Wiktionary, as a possible and hopeful step
towards maybe also solving the riddle of where 'idiotaes' might come
from. Usenet was originally a communication system between scholars
trying to exchange ideas and achieve results from concerted efforts.
Do you remember? I do.
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>>> I suppose you mean ?????????, which only someone ignorant of Greek
>>> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>>
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiotikon
>> https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Idiotikon
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/idioticon
>
>Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
>them, and neither can my computer.
towards maybe also solving the riddle of where 'idiotaes' might come
from. Usenet was originally a communication system between scholars
trying to exchange ideas and achieve results from concerted efforts.
Do you remember? I do.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 15, 2019, 3:27:54 AM12/15/19
to
On 2019-12-15 08:12:12 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 2:38:42 PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2019-12-14 12:09:38 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>>
>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 1:07:51 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel> >>
>>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel> > >> >>>>
>>>>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of
>>>>>>> Greek>> >> >>>>> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Idiotaes means private person,
>>>>>
>>>>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that>>
>>>>> >>> > in Liddell and Scott.
>>>>
>>>> ιδιώτης
>>
>> You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word
>> is> from Modern Greek?
>
> I copied it 'as is' from Wiktionary, where it doesn’t have a
> breathing either. I know there isn’t a default in full diacritics
> Greek, but I think there should have been: no breathing means just the
> plain vowel, no h prepended.
Tell that to any ancient Greek that you meet.
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 2:38:42 PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2019-12-14 12:09:38 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>>
>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 1:07:51 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel> >>
>>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>> On 2019-12-14 09:03:30 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:00:08 AM UTC+1, Athel> > >> >>>>
>>>>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suppose you mean ἰδιωτικός, which only someone ignorant of
>>>>>>> Greek>> >> >>>>> >> would transliterate as idiotaes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Idiotaes means private person,
>>>>>
>>>>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that>>
>>>>> >>> > in Liddell and Scott.
>>>>
>>>> ιδιώτης
>>
>> You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word
>> is> from Modern Greek?
>
> I copied it 'as is' from Wiktionary, where it doesn’t have a
> breathing either. I know there isn’t a default in full diacritics
> Greek, but I think there should have been: no breathing means just the
> plain vowel, no h prepended.
>
>>>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%8E%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
>>>>
>>>> Possibly sources in German, seeing that Greek η in a remote past was>
>>>> >> pronounced as a long, open e sound, transcribe this in Latin script>
>>>> >> using a sign ä, inspired by German words like prägen and schräg,
>>>> which> >> (in some people’s pronunciation) have such a sound.
>>
>> Maybe, but Franz was trying to write in English.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>> as in English private for a private soldier,
>>>
>>> So the recommendation to Franz is, as before, to use Greek script for>
>>> > Greek words, Hebrew script for Hebrew words, etc. etc. It avoids> >
>>> misunderstandings.
>>
>> Do you think he knows how to do that?
>
> Copy and paste works in all modern programs, in any script.
--
>>>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%8E%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
>>>>
>>>> Possibly sources in German, seeing that Greek η in a remote past was>
>>>> >> pronounced as a long, open e sound, transcribe this in Latin script>
>>>> >> using a sign ä, inspired by German words like prägen and schräg,
>>>> which> >> (in some people’s pronunciation) have such a sound.
>>
>> Maybe, but Franz was trying to write in English.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>> as in English private for a private soldier,
>>>
>>> So the recommendation to Franz is, as before, to use Greek script for>
>>> > Greek words, Hebrew script for Hebrew words, etc. etc. It avoids> >
>>> misunderstandings.
>>
>> Do you think he knows how to do that?
>
> Copy and paste works in all modern programs, in any script.
athel
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 3:28:09 AM12/15/19
to
Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:58:52 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>>> Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to>
>>> be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
>
>And what about my computer, should it be able to find "idiotaes" on web
>pages that don't include any such word?
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>>> Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to>
>>> be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
>
>And what about my computer, should it be able to find "idiotaes" on web
>pages that don't include any such word?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 15, 2019, 3:28:47 AM12/15/19
to
--
athel
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 3:37:12 AM12/15/19
to
Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:27:59 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>>> You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word
>>> is> from Modern Greek?
>>
>> I copied it 'as is' from Wiktionary, where it doesn’t have a
>> breathing either. I know there isn’t a default in full diacritics
>> Greek, but I think there should have been: no breathing means just the
>> plain vowel, no h prepended.
>
>Tell that to any ancient Greek that you meet.
I will, thank you.
In fact, Real Ancients Greeks (RAGs) scratched & carved uppercase
characters into some substrate, without ANY breathings or sing-song
indicators at all. Those were only invented in hindsight, centuries
later.
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>>> You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word
>>> is> from Modern Greek?
>>
>> I copied it 'as is' from Wiktionary, where it doesn’t have a
>> breathing either. I know there isn’t a default in full diacritics
>> Greek, but I think there should have been: no breathing means just the
>> plain vowel, no h prepended.
>
>Tell that to any ancient Greek that you meet.
In fact, Real Ancients Greeks (RAGs) scratched & carved uppercase
characters into some substrate, without ANY breathings or sing-song
indicators at all. Those were only invented in hindsight, centuries
later.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 3:39:01 AM12/15/19
to
Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:28:08 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
scribeva:
>Usenet was originally a communication system between scholars
>trying to exchange ideas and achieve results from concerted efforts.
And not for catching each other off flies.
Does such an expression exist? It does in Dutch.
scribeva:
>Usenet was originally a communication system between scholars
>trying to exchange ideas and achieve results from concerted efforts.
Does such an expression exist? It does in Dutch.
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 15, 2019, 5:52:49 AM12/15/19
to
Le dimanche 15 décembre 2019 09:19:44 UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen a écrit :
> Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:32:01 -0800 (PST): Arnaud Fournet
> <fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
>
> >Le samedi 14 décembre 2019 15:52:07 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> >> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 8:34:52 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>
> >> > Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
> >> > them, and neither can my computer.
> >>
> >> Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to
> >> be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
> >
> >Rien à branler des boches.
>
> Foei, ga je mond spoelen!
>
> (I find as an assembled translation: I don’t f***ing care the pins.
> O wait, boches, not broches.
> https://www.ensie.nl/scheldwoordenboek/boche
Interesting !
> Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:32:01 -0800 (PST): Arnaud Fournet
> <fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
>
> >Le samedi 14 décembre 2019 15:52:07 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> >> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 8:34:52 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>
> >> > Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
> >> > them, and neither can my computer.
> >>
> >> Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to
> >> be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
> >
> >Rien à branler des boches.
>
> Foei, ga je mond spoelen!
>
> (I find as an assembled translation: I don’t f***ing care the pins.
> O wait, boches, not broches.
> https://www.ensie.nl/scheldwoordenboek/boche
I was not aware that (shortened) boche < (slang) alboche < allemand.
The original word has disappeared...
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 15, 2019, 9:57:52 AM12/15/19
to
could put a modicum of effort into figuring out what an umlaut-free
Swiss was doing.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 15, 2019, 10:00:13 AM12/15/19
to
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 3:37:12 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:27:59 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
> >>> You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word
> >>> is> from Modern Greek?
> >>
> >> I copied it 'as is' from Wiktionary, where it doesn’t have a
> >> breathing either. I know there isn’t a default in full diacritics
> >> Greek, but I think there should have been: no breathing means just the
> >> plain vowel, no h prepended.
> >
> >Tell that to any ancient Greek that you meet.
>
> I will, thank you.
>
> In fact, Real Ancients Greeks (RAGs) scratched & carved uppercase
> characters
No, just characters. "Upper" vs. "lower" case wouldn't exist for
> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:27:59 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
> >>> You forgot the breathing: you're surely not suggesting that the word
> >>> is> from Modern Greek?
> >>
> >> I copied it 'as is' from Wiktionary, where it doesn’t have a
> >> breathing either. I know there isn’t a default in full diacritics
> >> Greek, but I think there should have been: no breathing means just the
> >> plain vowel, no h prepended.
> >
> >Tell that to any ancient Greek that you meet.
>
> I will, thank you.
>
> In fact, Real Ancients Greeks (RAGs) scratched & carved uppercase
> characters
centuries yet, and "majuscules" and "minuscules" wouldn't be named
for "cases" until after printing with type sorts kept in two cases,
one above and one below, was invented.
> into some substrate, without ANY breathings or sing-song
> indicators at all. Those were only invented in hindsight, centuries
> later.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 15, 2019, 10:01:20 AM12/15/19
to
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 3:39:01 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:28:08 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> scribeva:
> >Usenet was originally a communication system between scholars
> >trying to exchange ideas and achieve results from concerted efforts.
>
> And not for catching each other off flies.
>
> Does such an expression exist? It does in Dutch.
No doubt _such an_ expression exists, but what it is, I can't say unless
> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:28:08 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> scribeva:
> >Usenet was originally a communication system between scholars
> >trying to exchange ideas and achieve results from concerted efforts.
>
> And not for catching each other off flies.
>
> Does such an expression exist? It does in Dutch.
you tell me what it means.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 10:07:51 AM12/15/19
to
Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:00:11 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
Ancient Greek was a tone language.
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 10:08:40 AM12/15/19
to
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 15, 2019, 10:10:39 AM12/15/19
to
Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:01:19 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
https://context.reverso.net/translation/dutch-english/elkaar+vliegen+afvangen
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 15, 2019, 12:12:48 PM12/15/19
to
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 15, 2019, 12:14:00 PM12/15/19
to
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 16, 2019, 3:29:47 AM12/16/19
to
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> in Liddell and Scott.
I learned it in school, more than half a century ago. Idiotaes means
>
> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> in Liddell and Scott.
private person in contrast to the community, also a private soldier
in contrast to a heavily armed hoplitaes, and then a duffer, wherefrom
our idiot.
> As far as I can tell by looking it up it is mainly or only a Swiss
> usage. Not what I would call "many dictionaries".
No, there have also been German Idiotika, dictionaries of dialects.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 16, 2019, 3:41:42 AM12/16/19
to
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 9:47:19 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> And Al Quds Al Sharif?
>
Arabic has quds for sanctuary, while Kadesh Barnea in the Negev, desert of
Zin, keeps a memory of the tent KOD of the able one DhAG, short form of
ShA.CA DhAG.CA JHWH Jahwe, rider of clouds, ruler ShA in the sky CA,
able one DhAG in the sky CA - KOD DhAG Kadesh and qodesh kadosh 'holy'.
> And Al Quds Al Sharif?
>
Arabic has quds for sanctuary, while Kadesh Barnea in the Negev, desert of
Zin, keeps a memory of the tent KOD of the able one DhAG, short form of
ShA.CA DhAG.CA JHWH Jahwe, rider of clouds, ruler ShA in the sky CA,
able one DhAG in the sky CA - KOD DhAG Kadesh and qodesh kadosh 'holy'.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 16, 2019, 4:00:00 AM12/16/19
to
> By the side of the red mare of the early midsummer morning runs a proud
> white bull symbolizing a full moon coinciding with the summer solstice
> (our June 21), ideal start of an eight-year cycle in the lunisolar
> calendar of Lascaux.
>
> The summer sun horse would have been called CA BAL meaning sky CA hot BAL,
> and the full moon CA LUN, sky CA of the full round form LUN, Latin luna
> 'moon' and Greek selaenae 'moon'. The inverse form LUN CA might perhaps
> account for Finnish lenkki 'ring, loop', and LUN for Latin plenus 'full',
> LUN -len- also present in English plenty.
>
> And then we have the calendar, from Latin Calendae naming the first day
> of each month, when taxes were due. A month had originally been a lunar
> period of time, a lunation or synodic month counted in the 30 29 30 mode.
>
> Yes, we can find words for symbols in cave art - provided we know what they
> mean.
>
> CA LAB winter sun horse
> CA BEL spring sun horse CA BEL IAS
> CA BAL summer sun horse
> CA LUN full moon
Another prominent animal in the Lascaux cave is the stag.
A big roaring stag appears in the axial gallery, near the rotunda, calling
out to the pair of approaching spring sun horses. He may symbolize the
astronomer and calendar shaman. Latin cervus French cerf 'stag' and the
Celtic god Cernunnos wearing stag antlers indicate CER for stag and shaman,
also hind and shamaness.
Megaceroi (giant stags) would have represented wandering arch shamans and
arch shamanesses holding together the Magdalenian Proto-society.
Five swimming stags crossing a river drawn in the nave symbolize (in my
opinion) shamans from all over the Guyenne meeting in the region of
Montignac on the occasion of the midsummer festival celebrated every eighth
year when a long calendar cycle was completed and a new one began.
Further stags can be seen before the red mare of the midsummer sun rising
above the horizon of the ledge and the white bull of a full moon by her
side. These have been Divine Stags guarding the exits from (and entrances
to) the Underworld passed by the sun horse and moon bull.
Their large antlers evoke trees. Oak trees branch in a similar way as
stag antlers, nearly at a right angle. So the oak tree may have been
the emblematic tree of the Divine Stag, patron of astronomer shamans.
Latin quercus 'oak tree' and Gaulish érkos 'oak forest' may indicate
CER KOS for the cosmic stag. His antlers may have been seen in in the
summer constellations we know as Sagittarius and Scorpio.
Sagittarius 'Archer' goes along with hunting signs, in the Lascaux cave
ideograms of astronomical observation.
Present-day astronomers are *hunting* planets. Within ten years the
satellite Kepler found some 2,500 planets, and the satellite Cheops
- a marvel of Swiss precision, to be launched tomorrow, December 17,
2019 - shall examine 300 specific planets, discern between gas and stone
planes, identify planets in the habitable zone, and in the best case
detect chemical markers of conditions that make life possible.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 16, 2019, 7:33:57 AM12/16/19
to
Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:12:46 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
difficult language.
After consulting British dictionary: nonsense:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/sing-song
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 10:07:51 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:00:11 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> >On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 3:37:12 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
>> >> In fact, Real Ancients Greeks (RAGs) scratched & carved uppercase
>> >> characters
>> >No, just characters. "Upper" vs. "lower" case wouldn't exist for
>> >centuries yet, and "majuscules" and "minuscules" wouldn't be named
>> >for "cases" until after printing with type sorts kept in two cases,
>> >one above and one below, was invented.
>> >> into some substrate, without ANY breathings or sing-song
>> >> indicators at all. Those were only invented in hindsight, centuries
>> >> later.
>> >"sing-song"?
>>
>> Ancient Greek was a tone language.
>
>"Sing-song" is an insult.
Sorry, I didn't know. Even after all these years, English is a very
>On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 10:07:51 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:00:11 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> >On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 3:37:12 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
>> >> In fact, Real Ancients Greeks (RAGs) scratched & carved uppercase
>> >> characters
>> >No, just characters. "Upper" vs. "lower" case wouldn't exist for
>> >centuries yet, and "majuscules" and "minuscules" wouldn't be named
>> >for "cases" until after printing with type sorts kept in two cases,
>> >one above and one below, was invented.
>> >> into some substrate, without ANY breathings or sing-song
>> >> indicators at all. Those were only invented in hindsight, centuries
>> >> later.
>> >"sing-song"?
>>
>> Ancient Greek was a tone language.
>
>"Sing-song" is an insult.
difficult language.
After consulting British dictionary: nonsense:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/sing-song
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 16, 2019, 7:37:45 AM12/16/19
to
Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:29:45 -0800 (PST): Franz Gnaedinger
<fr...@bluemail.ch> scribeva:
>On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
>> in Liddell and Scott.
>
>I learned it in school, more than half a century ago. Idiotaes means
>private person in contrast to the community, also a private soldier
>in contrast to a heavily armed hoplitaes, and then a duffer, wherefrom
>our idiot.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BD%81%CF%80%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
*) Sounds like a non-existent word. Why not?
>> As far as I can tell by looking it up it is mainly or only a Swiss
>> usage. Not what I would call "many dictionaries".
>
>No, there have also been German Idiotika, dictionaries of dialects.
<fr...@bluemail.ch> scribeva:
>On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
>> in Liddell and Scott.
>
>I learned it in school, more than half a century ago. Idiotaes means
>private person in contrast to the community, also a private soldier
>in contrast to a heavily armed hoplitaes, and then a duffer, wherefrom
>our idiot.
Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
*) Sounds like a non-existent word. Why not?
>> As far as I can tell by looking it up it is mainly or only a Swiss
>> usage. Not what I would call "many dictionaries".
>
>No, there have also been German Idiotika, dictionaries of dialects.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 16, 2019, 7:38:19 AM12/16/19
to
Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:13:59 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 10:10:39 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:01:19 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> >On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 3:39:01 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:28:08 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
>> >> scribeva:
>
>> >> >Usenet was originally a communication system between scholars
>> >> >trying to exchange ideas and achieve results from concerted efforts.
>> >> And not for catching each other off flies.
>> >> Does such an expression exist? It does in Dutch.
>> >No doubt _such an_ expression exists, but what it is, I can't say unless
>> >you tell me what it means.
>>
>> https://context.reverso.net/translation/dutch-english/elkaar+vliegen+afvangen
>
>Ok, don't tell me.
I did.
>On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 10:10:39 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:01:19 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> >On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 3:39:01 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:28:08 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
>> >> scribeva:
>
>> >> >Usenet was originally a communication system between scholars
>> >> >trying to exchange ideas and achieve results from concerted efforts.
>> >> And not for catching each other off flies.
>> >> Does such an expression exist? It does in Dutch.
>> >No doubt _such an_ expression exists, but what it is, I can't say unless
>> >you tell me what it means.
>>
>> https://context.reverso.net/translation/dutch-english/elkaar+vliegen+afvangen
>
>Ok, don't tell me.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 16, 2019, 7:46:57 AM12/16/19
to
On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 7:37:45 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
>
> *) Sounds like a non-existent word. Why not?
because expected
> Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
>
> *) Sounds like a non-existent word. Why not?
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 17, 2019, 2:18:54 AM12/17/19
to
On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 1:37:45 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
> Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
>
Greek epsilon is pronounced /e/ and aeta /ä or ae or as in French tête/
>
> Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
>
so they are different sounds, and I render them accordingly, although
the aeta is most often given as eta. I go on writing aeta and ae.
As for idiotaes, there are more meanings, also layman, and the plural
means the people in contrast to the government.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 17, 2019, 2:40:30 AM12/17/19
to
can't be explained here.
Across the sky from the summer constellations of Sagittarius and Scorpio
- seen as antlers of the cosmic stag - is the winter constellation ORE EON Orion, she on the beautiful ORE bank or shore EON of the heavenly CA
stream or lake LAK overformed by Galaxy 'Milky Way'. She was the Orion
Woman, her characteristic hourglass figure indicated by the arcs of the
horns and heads of the opposing ibices in the niche at the rear end of the axial gallery, identified as midwinter emblem and niche by Marie E.P. König.
The alter ego of the Orion Woman was the Divine Hind of Altamira, a large
beautiful hind licking the horns of a small bison under her
http://www.seshat.ch/home/hind1.JPG
She called life into existence, also moon bulls, thus creating time,
lunations or synodic months, periods of 30 29 30 29 30 29 30 29 30 29 30 ...
days, represented by the compact and often rounded bulls painted on the
walls and ceilings of the Altamira cave.
Her name could have been CER -: I -: or CER LIL (pronounce the lip lick
-: by touching both lips with the tip of the tongue). Derivatives of
CER -: I -: are cow-eyed Hera, wife of Zeus, and NW Proto-Indo-European
*kerdeh- 'herd, series'. Derivatives of -: I -: alone are a call of
Celtic herdsmen surviving in the locally famous lyoba call of herdsmen
in the Swiss Canton of Fribourg; German Leben Liebe English love life;
Latin libido 'desire'; lip (licking the lips would once have been a sign
of desire, still indicates appetite); Ugaritic dd 'loved (by)', Phoenician
Dido 'Beloved One'; Ukrainian lyalka 'doll'; the female given name Lily
and the flower lily; German Laub 'foliage' and Laube 'arbor, bowery'
(some of the Altamira bulls have tails in the shape of fir twiglets,
indicating arbors made from fir branches in honor of the goddess);
and maybe also articles that call the subsequent nouns into existence.
The Divine Stag CER KOS and and his consort CER -: I -: would have been
a couple of Magdalenian mythology and cosmology.
--
How can we hope to not only receive but also decipher messages of an
extra-terrestrian civilization when we don't even understnad the legacy
of our ancient forebears from the Stone Age, the marvel of cave art?
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 17, 2019, 4:51:40 AM12/17/19
to
Le mardi 17 décembre 2019 08:18:54 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 1:37:45 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >
> > Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> > expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
> >
>
> Greek epsilon is pronounced /e/ and aeta /ä or ae or as in French tête/
> so they are different sounds, and I render them accordingly, although
> the aeta is most often given as eta. I go on writing aeta and ae.
How do you write the diphthong ae then?
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 1:37:45 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >
> > Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> > expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
> >
>
> Greek epsilon is pronounced /e/ and aeta /ä or ae or as in French tête/
> so they are different sounds, and I render them accordingly, although
> the aeta is most often given as eta. I go on writing aeta and ae.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 17, 2019, 8:09:11 AM12/17/19
to
Tue, 17 Dec 2019 01:51:39 -0800 (PST): Arnaud Fournet
<fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
Doesn't occur in Greek.
Nevertheless, I repeat and insist that writing eta with ae is unusual,
confusing and unclear.
<fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
Nevertheless, I repeat and insist that writing eta with ae is unusual,
confusing and unclear.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 17, 2019, 8:12:57 AM12/17/19
to
Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:09:06 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
scribeva:
scribeva:
>Nevertheless, I repeat and insist that writing eta with ae is unusual,
>confusing and unclear.
Not a trace of "ae" here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eta .
>confusing and unclear.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 17, 2019, 8:56:41 AM12/17/19
to
On 2019-12-17 13:12:54 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
> Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:09:06 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> scribeva:
>> Nevertheless, I repeat and insist that writing eta with ae is unusual,
>> confusing and unclear.
>
> Not a trace of "ae" here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eta .
And conflicts with the traditional transliteration of αι. Americans, of
> Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:09:06 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> scribeva:
>> Nevertheless, I repeat and insist that writing eta with ae is unusual,
>> confusing and unclear.
>
> Not a trace of "ae" here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eta .
course, usually misspell words like paedophile (leaving out the a), and
that may explain why Peter wasn't able to grasp what was wrong with
Franz's representation of η.
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 17, 2019, 10:10:48 AM12/17/19
to
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 2:18:54 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 1:37:45 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> > expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
>
> Greek epsilon is pronounced /e/ and aeta /ä or ae or as in French tête/
no, "tête" does not have the sound of eta in it.
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 1:37:45 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> > expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
>
> Greek epsilon is pronounced /e/ and aeta /ä or ae or as in French tête/
> so they are different sounds, and I render them accordingly, although
> the aeta is most often given as eta.
to see diacritics.
> I go on writing aeta and ae.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 17, 2019, 10:12:42 AM12/17/19
to
to him.
His pretense that English should be spelled like Greek is archaic.
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 17, 2019, 12:17:21 PM12/17/19
to
Le mardi 17 décembre 2019 16:10:48 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 2:18:54 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> > On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 1:37:45 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
> > > Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> > > expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
> >
> > Greek epsilon is pronounced /e/ and aeta /ä or ae or as in French tête/
>
> no, "tête" does not have the sound of eta in it.
I disagree,
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 2:18:54 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> > On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 1:37:45 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
> > > Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> > > expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
> >
> > Greek epsilon is pronounced /e/ and aeta /ä or ae or as in French tête/
>
> no, "tête" does not have the sound of eta in it.
there used to be a time when French ê in tête was about the same as the vowel Eta. Some French people still have it, though not me.
>
> > so they are different sounds, and I render them accordingly, although
> > the aeta is most often given as eta.
>
> No, it is not. We do realize that as a Swiss you are apparently unable
> to see diacritics.
>
> > I go on writing aeta and ae.
>
> EVERYONE "renders them" differently. Your way of doing so is stupid.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 18, 2019, 3:27:10 AM12/18/19
to
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 2:12:57 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
> Not a trace of "ae" here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eta .
Wikipedia is not the gospel, for example transporting all the academic
>
> Not a trace of "ae" here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eta .
prejudices about early (pre-Greek) mathematics. I contribute essentially
to Graekology and so take the liberty of writing aeta ae as spoken.
- The Greeks and Hellenes had originally been miner tribes on the southern
slopes of the Alai Mountains in Central Asia, part of the first Indo-European
homeland on the middle course of the Amu Darya. The earliest layer of Greek
mythology tells the story of the first IE homeland and its neighbors,
transposed from Central Asia to the southern Balkans.
- The Phaistos Disc as deciphered by Derk Ohlenroth keeps a memory of the
agrarian revolution in the Argolis of the Middle Helladic period of time.
- I achieved a coherent interpretation of Homer's Odyssey: the phantastic
travels are dreams that bring the hero back to Troy, Troy in disguise and
blended with other places and periods of time, while the Battle in the Hall
is the punishment of those who profit from the land without meeting their
obligations.
With my contributions I am entitled to make a correction of eta e,
it is aeta ae.
- And a further contribution: the Ionian alphabet renders a midsummer day
from sunrise to sunrise.
There are still many things to discover in the Greek legacy.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 18, 2019, 3:31:46 AM12/18/19
to
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 4:10:48 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> no, "tête" does not have the sound of eta in it.
>
For once I agree on Wikipedia
>
> no, "tête" does not have the sound of eta in it.
>
Η η eta, ήτα [ɛː] ê as in French tête
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 18, 2019, 4:03:31 AM12/18/19
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 18, 2019, 4:23:26 AM12/18/19
to
--
athel
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 18, 2019, 5:20:51 AM12/18/19
to
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 18, 2019, 10:20:17 AM12/18/19
to
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:27:10 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 2:12:57 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Not a trace of "ae" here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eta .
>
> Wikipedia is not the gospel, for example transporting all the academic
> prejudices about early (pre-Greek) mathematics. I contribute essentially
> to Graekology and so take the liberty of writing aeta ae as spoken.
As spoken in Switzerland alone.
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 2:12:57 PM UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Not a trace of "ae" here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eta .
>
> Wikipedia is not the gospel, for example transporting all the academic
> prejudices about early (pre-Greek) mathematics. I contribute essentially
> to Graekology and so take the liberty of writing aeta ae as spoken.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 18, 2019, 10:27:40 AM12/18/19
to
differences between epsilon and eta include timbre, [ɛ] vs.[e], which
might compare with French è and é respectively; but that "tête" has
[ɛ:], not [e:] as in the English borrowing "tête-a-tête", which has [e]s
("tate-a-tait).
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 18, 2019, 10:56:04 AM12/18/19
to
Franz Gnaedinger
Dec 20, 2019, 3:44:10 AM12/20/19
to
like French tête. You dern scatologist started an attack on my Magdalenian
publishing thread. Now I end all conversation with you.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 20, 2019, 3:54:40 AM12/20/19
to
On 2019-12-20 08:44:09 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:
> On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 10:03:31 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>> Le mercredi 18 décembre 2019 09:31:46 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
>>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 4:10:48 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>
>>>> no, "tête" does not have the sound of eta in it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> For once I agree on Wikipedia
>>>
>>> Η η eta, ήτα [ɛː] ê as in French tête
>>
>> No, French is just /tɛt/, and in bygone days when French had a length
>> contrast many speakers had /te:t/ in this word. /tɛ:t/ is not French in
>> general, it's an archaic Parisian pronunciation.
>
> I quoted from Wikipedia, letter seven of the Greek alphabet is pronounced
> like French tête.
And you think some unknown person on Wikipedia knows better than a
> On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 10:03:31 AM UTC+1, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>> Le mercredi 18 décembre 2019 09:31:46 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
>>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 4:10:48 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>
>>>> no, "tête" does not have the sound of eta in it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> For once I agree on Wikipedia
>>>
>>> Η η eta, ήτα [ɛː] ê as in French tête
>>
>> No, French is just /tɛt/, and in bygone days when French had a length
>> contrast many speakers had /te:t/ in this word. /tɛ:t/ is not French in
>> general, it's an archaic Parisian pronunciation.
>
> I quoted from Wikipedia, letter seven of the Greek alphabet is pronounced
> like French tête.
native speaker of French how French is pronounced?
> You dern scatologist
What does "dern" mean? Is it an example of Swiss scatology?
Fun fact: "scatology" and "eschatology" are both "escatología" in Spanish.
> started an attack on my Magdalenian
> publishing thread. Now I end all conversation with you.
How about ending all posting to this group?
--
athel
Arnaud Fournet
Dec 20, 2019, 5:01:51 AM12/20/19
to
If you hate discussion, just don't show up here.
> Now I end all conversation with you.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 20, 2019, 11:36:36 AM12/20/19
to
or the shortness.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 21, 2019, 12:32:55 AM12/21/19
to
Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:36:35 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 10:56:04 AM UTC-5, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>> Le mercredi 18 décembre 2019 16:27:40 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> > On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:46 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
>> > > On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 4:10:48 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> > > > no, "tęte" does not have the sound of eta in it.
>> > might compare with French č and é respectively; but that "tęte" has
>> > [?:], not [e:] as in the English borrowing "tęte-a-tęte", which has [e]s
>> > ("tate-a-tait).
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, bęte when emphatically said is /be:t/ not /b?:t/, otherwise it's /b?t/. As far as I'm concerned, neither /me:tR/ not /m?:tR/ makes any sense for maître. Only /m?tR/ does.
through it. In many regions including Paris.
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 10:56:04 AM UTC-5, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>> Le mercredi 18 décembre 2019 16:27:40 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> > On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:46 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
>> > > On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 4:10:48 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> > > For once I agree on Wikipedia
>> > > ? ? eta, ??? [??] ę as in French tęte
>> > Traditionally we are told that (besides the difference in length) the
>> > differences between epsilon and eta include timbre, [?] vs.[e], which
>> > might compare with French č and é respectively; but that "tęte" has
>> > [?:], not [e:] as in the English borrowing "tęte-a-tęte", which has [e]s
>> > ("tate-a-tait).
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, bęte when emphatically said is /be:t/ not /b?:t/, otherwise it's /b?t/. As far as I'm concerned, neither /me:tR/ not /m?:tR/ makes any sense for maître. Only /m?tR/ does.
>
>That doesn't sound like what we're taught in French class -- either the /e/
>or the shortness.
French is currently in a process of change, of has already gone
>That doesn't sound like what we're taught in French class -- either the /e/
>or the shortness.
through it. In many regions including Paris.
Ruud Harmsen
Dec 21, 2019, 1:18:56 AM12/21/19
to
>>On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 10:56:04 AM UTC-5, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>>> As far as I'm concerned, bête when emphatically said is /be:t/ not /b?:t/,
>>> otherwise it's /b?t/. As far as I'm concerned, neither /me:tR/ not /m?:tR/ makes
>>> any sense for maître. Only /m?tR/ does.
>>> any sense for maître. Only /m?tR/ does.
>>That doesn't sound like what we're taught in French class -- either the /e/
>>or the shortness.
Sat, 21 Dec 2019 06:32:53 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
>>or the shortness.
scribeva:
>French is currently in a process of change, of has already gone
>through it. In many regions including Paris.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prononciation_du_fran%C3%A7ais#Voyelles_2
>through it. In many regions including Paris.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prononciation_du_fran%C3%A7ais#Variantes_dialectales
António Marques
Dec 22, 2019, 8:03:22 PM12/22/19
to
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 8:34:52 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
>> them, and neither can my computer.
>
> Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to
> be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
>
It's true that âh is German for [E:], but to go from there to use ar as a
transliteration for eta is quite a leap.
> On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 8:34:52 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> Where do any of these include "idiotaes"? I can't find it on any og
>> them, and neither can my computer.
>
> Even an enzyme kineticist, at least one who haunts sci.lang, ought to
> be able to reverse-engineer ae < a-umlaut < long-e (e-macron) < Gk eta.
>
It's true that âh is German for [E:], but to go from there to use ar as a
transliteration for eta is quite a leap.
The G*d In Forces
Mar 26, 2020, 7:50:18 AM3/26/20
to
On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 2:22:31 AM UTC-6, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> >
> > Finnish tivas Hieroglyphic Luwian taipas 'heaven' can suggest Magdalenian
> > TYR PAS meaning the one who overcomes in the double sense of rule and give
> > TYR everywhere (in a plain) PAS, here, south and north of me, east and
> > west of me, under and above me (on earth but also from a god in the sky),
> > in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all, every' pente penta- 'five' and
> > Finnish viisi 'five'. TYR became emphatic Middle Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos
> > Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus. The shift
> > from Y to EY might have a parallel in Y > ai in Luwian taipas 'heaven'.
> > Another Luwian derivative of TYR PAS is Taruwisa 'Troy', ancient overcomer
> > on the crossing of once important tradeways (S-N, E-W). TYR PAS in the
> > sense of TYR SsEYR Sseus Zeus everywhere PAS has a strongly polished
> > derivative in French temps 'time, weather' that overcome everybody anywhere.
> > Inverse PAS TYR became English weather, while (TYR PA)Sää may have
> > become Finnish sää 'weather'
>
> TYR PAS Hieroglyphic tipas Finnish taivas may name heaven as omni-
> presence of divine powers that overcome in the double sense of rule
> and give. TYR PAS has another Luwian derivative in Taruwisa 'Troy',
> an overcomer of the Bronze Age, on the crossing of important
> tradeways (S-N and E-W), early Troy identified as Pleasant Scherie
> in Homer by Eberhard Zangger, helping foreign sailors navigate
> through the perilous waters of the Dardanelles. TYR emphatic Middle
> Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm
> Larfeld) Homeric Zeus overcame everybody everywhere PAS in weather
> and time. A strongly polished version of TYR PAS is French temps
> 'weather, time', while PAS TYR is present in English weather,
> and (TYR PA)sää might have named the Finnish weather sää.
> If TYR PAS became Finnish taivas, then maybe TYR CA aika 'time'.
> TYR CA names the overcomer TYR in the sky CA who overcomes
> everybody everywhere PAS in weather and time that rule our lives
> but are also given to us in order that we make the best of them.
>
> A further correction: Daniel Europaeus contributed the _Kullervo_ cycle
> of oral Poems to the Finnish national Epic Kalevala.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang/zQKrV4CeN8I
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang/aRMXjoGPDbU
They say you Died.
Is that True?
TGIF
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang/aRMXjoGPDbU
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang/zQKrV4CeN8I
They say you Died.
Is that True?
TGIF
> >
> > Finnish tivas Hieroglyphic Luwian taipas 'heaven' can suggest Magdalenian
> > TYR PAS meaning the one who overcomes in the double sense of rule and give
> > TYR everywhere (in a plain) PAS, here, south and north of me, east and
> > west of me, under and above me (on earth but also from a god in the sky),
> > in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all, every' pente penta- 'five' and
> > Finnish viisi 'five'. TYR became emphatic Middle Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos
> > Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus. The shift
> > from Y to EY might have a parallel in Y > ai in Luwian taipas 'heaven'.
> > Another Luwian derivative of TYR PAS is Taruwisa 'Troy', ancient overcomer
> > on the crossing of once important tradeways (S-N, E-W). TYR PAS in the
> > sense of TYR SsEYR Sseus Zeus everywhere PAS has a strongly polished
> > derivative in French temps 'time, weather' that overcome everybody anywhere.
> > Inverse PAS TYR became English weather, while (TYR PA)Sää may have
> > become Finnish sää 'weather'
>
> TYR PAS Hieroglyphic tipas Finnish taivas may name heaven as omni-
> presence of divine powers that overcome in the double sense of rule
> and give. TYR PAS has another Luwian derivative in Taruwisa 'Troy',
> an overcomer of the Bronze Age, on the crossing of important
> tradeways (S-N and E-W), early Troy identified as Pleasant Scherie
> in Homer by Eberhard Zangger, helping foreign sailors navigate
> through the perilous waters of the Dardanelles. TYR emphatic Middle
> Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm
> Larfeld) Homeric Zeus overcame everybody everywhere PAS in weather
> and time. A strongly polished version of TYR PAS is French temps
> 'weather, time', while PAS TYR is present in English weather,
> and (TYR PA)sää might have named the Finnish weather sää.
> If TYR PAS became Finnish taivas, then maybe TYR CA aika 'time'.
> TYR CA names the overcomer TYR in the sky CA who overcomes
> everybody everywhere PAS in weather and time that rule our lives
> but are also given to us in order that we make the best of them.
>
> A further correction: Daniel Europaeus contributed the _Kullervo_ cycle
> of oral Poems to the Finnish national Epic Kalevala.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang/zQKrV4CeN8I
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang/aRMXjoGPDbU
They say you Died.
Is that True?
TGIF
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang/aRMXjoGPDbU
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang/zQKrV4CeN8I
They say you Died.
Is that True?
TGIF
Doctor VICTOR Denkenstein
Mar 27, 2020, 7:03:46 AM3/27/20
to
The God In Forces
Apr 2, 2020, 3:12:54 AM4/2/20
to
edi...@archaeologyuk.org
On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 6:37:45 AM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:29:45 -0800 (PST): Franz Gnaedinger
> <fr...@bluemail.ch> scribeva:
>
> >On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>
> >> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> >> in Liddell and Scott.
> >
> >I learned it in school, more than half a century ago. Idiotaes means
> >private person in contrast to the community, also a private soldier
> >in contrast to a heavily armed hoplitaes, and then a duffer, wherefrom
> >our idiot.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BD%81%CF%80%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
>
> >> As far as I can tell by looking it up it is mainly or only a Swiss
> >> usage. Not what I would call "many dictionaries".
> >
> >No, there have also been German Idiotika, dictionaries of dialects.
On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 6:37:45 AM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:29:45 -0800 (PST): Franz Gnaedinger
> <fr...@bluemail.ch> scribeva:
>
> >On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:17:09 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>
> >> Where did you get that from? I can't find a word that looks like that
> >> in Liddell and Scott.
> >
> >I learned it in school, more than half a century ago. Idiotaes means
> >private person in contrast to the community, also a private soldier
> >in contrast to a heavily armed hoplitaes, and then a duffer, wherefrom
> >our idiot.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BD%81%CF%80%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82
>
> Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
>
> *) Sounds like a non-existent word. Why not?
> Writing the eta as "ae", or even "ä", is an understandable and
> expectable *) source of misunderstandings. So please don’t.
>
>
> >> As far as I can tell by looking it up it is mainly or only a Swiss
> >> usage. Not what I would call "many dictionaries".
> >
> >No, there have also been German Idiotika, dictionaries of dialects.
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