Re. Re. Paleo-etymology (Final 400)
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Daud Deden
Oct 14, 2022, 1:26:07 AM10/14/22
to
Not sure, I think there are 4 Paleo-etymology threads of about 1,000 posts.
I aim to add 400 more posts here, total of about 6,000 posts & comments.
I aim to add 400 more posts here, total of about 6,000 posts & comments.
Daud Deden
Oct 14, 2022, 7:08:17 AM10/14/22
to
Cont'd from lace tlaca tlapa
rope (n.)
Middle English rop, from Old English rap "strong, heavy cord of considerable thickness," from Proto-Germanic *raipaz (source also of Old Norse reip, West Frisian reap, Middle Dutch, Dutch reep "rope," Old Frisian silrap "shoe-thong," Gothic skauda-raip "shoe-lace," Old High German, German reif "ring, hoop"). Technically, only cordage above one inch in circumference and below 10 (bigger-around than that is a cable). Nautical use varies. Finnish raippa "hoop, rope, twig" is a Germanic loan-word.
It is attested by early 14c. as "a noose, a snare".
(xyuambua)tlachyah trace trap rap tali
---
cord (n.)
c. 1300, corde, "a string or small rope composed of several strands twisted or woven together; bowstring, hangman's rope," from Old French corde "rope, string, twist, cord," from Latin chorda "string of a musical instrument, cat-gut," from Greek khorde "string, catgut, chord, cord," from PIE root *ghere- "intestine".
Coiled
1610s, "to wind, gather into rings one above the other" (trans.), from French coillir "to gather, pick," from Latin colligere "to gather together" from assimilated form of com "together" (see co-) + legere "to gather," from PIE root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather." Intransitive sense "to form rings or spirals
rope (n.)
Middle English rop, from Old English rap "strong, heavy cord of considerable thickness," from Proto-Germanic *raipaz (source also of Old Norse reip, West Frisian reap, Middle Dutch, Dutch reep "rope," Old Frisian silrap "shoe-thong," Gothic skauda-raip "shoe-lace," Old High German, German reif "ring, hoop"). Technically, only cordage above one inch in circumference and below 10 (bigger-around than that is a cable). Nautical use varies. Finnish raippa "hoop, rope, twig" is a Germanic loan-word.
It is attested by early 14c. as "a noose, a snare".
(xyuambua)tlachyah trace trap rap tali
---
cord (n.)
c. 1300, corde, "a string or small rope composed of several strands twisted or woven together; bowstring, hangman's rope," from Old French corde "rope, string, twist, cord," from Latin chorda "string of a musical instrument, cat-gut," from Greek khorde "string, catgut, chord, cord," from PIE root *ghere- "intestine".
Coiled
1610s, "to wind, gather into rings one above the other" (trans.), from French coillir "to gather, pick," from Latin colligere "to gather together" from assimilated form of com "together" (see co-) + legere "to gather," from PIE root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather." Intransitive sense "to form rings or spirals
Daud Deden
Oct 14, 2022, 9:11:45 AM10/14/22
to
(elicit ex + licire lacere)
How did laz/laq/lash/tlaca/tali exchange to lap/tlapa/w.rap/raipaz/rope?
Laqz > lapzh > rapaiz > rope?
-tlachyah > rapia? Unresolved.
> lace (n.)
> early 13c., laz, "cord made of braided or interwoven strands of silk, etc.," from Old French laz "a net, noose, string, cord, tie, ribbon, or snare" (Modern French lacs), from Vulgar Latin *lacium, from Latin laqueum (nominative laqueus) "a noose, a snare" (source also of Italian laccio, Spanish lazo, English lasso), a trapping and hunting term, probably from Italic base *laq- "to ensnare" (compare Latin lacere "to entice").
>
> Later also "net, noose, snare" (c. 1300); and "piece of cord used to draw together the edges of slits or openings in an article of clothing" (late 14c., as preserved in shoelace). In Middle English it mostly had the sense "cord, thread," especially for tying or binding. It was used of fishing lines and perhaps the gallows rope, crossbeams in architecture, and the net Vulcan used to catch Venus in adultery.
>
> Lash leash let (go)? Rete/net leak? Knot? Light? laquer? Lacks? Lox? loosen
> Tlaca tlapa drape tape track/trek/trace/lace drag.net
Release lease relate? Latch, lock? tendon ligament drawstring
Tali @Mly: rope, string, lace
(xyuambua)TLACHYAh
How did laz/laq/lash/tlaca/tali exchange to lap/tlapa/w.rap/raipaz/rope?
Laqz > lapzh > rapaiz > rope?
-tlachyah > rapia? Unresolved.
> lace (n.)
> early 13c., laz, "cord made of braided or interwoven strands of silk, etc.," from Old French laz "a net, noose, string, cord, tie, ribbon, or snare" (Modern French lacs), from Vulgar Latin *lacium, from Latin laqueum (nominative laqueus) "a noose, a snare" (source also of Italian laccio, Spanish lazo, English lasso), a trapping and hunting term, probably from Italic base *laq- "to ensnare" (compare Latin lacere "to entice").
>
> Later also "net, noose, snare" (c. 1300); and "piece of cord used to draw together the edges of slits or openings in an article of clothing" (late 14c., as preserved in shoelace). In Middle English it mostly had the sense "cord, thread," especially for tying or binding. It was used of fishing lines and perhaps the gallows rope, crossbeams in architecture, and the net Vulcan used to catch Venus in adultery.
>
> Lash leash let (go)? Rete/net leak? Knot? Light? laquer? Lacks? Lox? loosen
> Tlaca tlapa drape tape track/trek/trace/lace drag.net
Release lease relate? Latch, lock? tendon ligament drawstring
Tali @Mly: rope, string, lace
(xyuambua)TLACHYAh
Daud Deden
Oct 15, 2022, 12:47:22 AM10/15/22
to
On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 9:11:45 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> (elicit ex + licire lacere)
Elicit (v.)
> (elicit ex + licire lacere)
"to draw out, bring forth or to light," 1640s, from Latin elicitus, past participle of elicere "draw out, draw forth," from ex "out" (see ex-) + -licere, combining form of lacere "to entice, lure, deceive" (related to laqueus "noose, snare;" see lace (n.))
Explicit (adj.)
1610s, "open to the understanding, not obscure or ambiguous," from French explicite, from Latin explicitus "unobstructed," variant past participle of explicare "unfold, unroll, unravel, explain," from ex "out" (see ex-) + plicare "to fold" (from PIE root *plek- "to plait"
Oddly, elicit, explicit and illicit are all used in references to sex, as is licentiousness.
-
Daud Deden
Oct 15, 2022, 10:59:49 AM10/15/22
to
Explicit
Implicit imply ply poly play prow plow pluvial umbel embellish
explyn explain expel born buang buah buat
xyuambuatlachyah uambuatlay wombelle embowel bowl-nest
--
Daud Deden
Oct 15, 2022, 4:42:18 PM10/15/22
to
Are there any words in any language spoken in Taiwan that may derive from now-extinct indigenous aboriginal people?
ABSTRACT
Taiwan is known as the homeland of the Austronesian-speaking groups, yet other populations already had lived here since the Pleistocene. Conventional notions have postulated that the Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers were replaced or absorbed into the Neolithic Austronesian farming communities. Yet, some evidence has indicated that sparse numbers of non-Austronesian individuals continued to live in the remote mountains as late as the 1800s. The cranial morphometric study of human skeletal remains unearthed from the Xiaoma Caves in eastern Taiwan, for the first time, validates the prior existence of small stature hunter-gatherers 6000 years ago in the preceramic phase. This female individual shared remarkable cranial affinities and small stature characteristics with the Indigenous Southeast Asians, particularly the Negritos in northern Luzon. This study solves the several-hundred-years-old mysteries of ‘little black people’ legends in Formosan Austronesian tribes and brings insights into the broader prehistory of Southeast Asia.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00438243.2022.2121315
ABSTRACT
Taiwan is known as the homeland of the Austronesian-speaking groups, yet other populations already had lived here since the Pleistocene. Conventional notions have postulated that the Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers were replaced or absorbed into the Neolithic Austronesian farming communities. Yet, some evidence has indicated that sparse numbers of non-Austronesian individuals continued to live in the remote mountains as late as the 1800s. The cranial morphometric study of human skeletal remains unearthed from the Xiaoma Caves in eastern Taiwan, for the first time, validates the prior existence of small stature hunter-gatherers 6000 years ago in the preceramic phase. This female individual shared remarkable cranial affinities and small stature characteristics with the Indigenous Southeast Asians, particularly the Negritos in northern Luzon. This study solves the several-hundred-years-old mysteries of ‘little black people’ legends in Formosan Austronesian tribes and brings insights into the broader prehistory of Southeast Asia.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00438243.2022.2121315
Ross Clark
Oct 15, 2022, 8:17:58 PM10/15/22
to
words which have that origin. Identifying them is another matter.
I don't know of anybody who has claimed to do so.
In the Philippines, where there are still physically Negrito populations
(though they speak Austronesian languages), I think Laurie Reid has
claimed to find some "Negrito vocabulary". (It's a little like the
arguments about "Pygmy vocabulary" in Africa.)
L.A.Reid, Possible non-Austronesian lexical elements in Philippine
Negrito languages. Oceanic Linguistics 33:37-72 (1994).
Daud Deden
Oct 15, 2022, 11:14:19 PM10/15/22
to
Philippine negritos eg. Mambawa have Denisovan admixture, as do Papuans and Australian aboriginals, while Malayan and Andaman aborigines do not.
I think the original Jomon in southern Japan were negritos, who mixed heavily with later Ainu and then still later Korean migrants.
I'll seek Reid's article.
Ruud Harmsen
Oct 16, 2022, 3:12:10 AM10/16/22
to
Sat, 15 Oct 2022 20:14:18 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> L.A.Reid, Possible non-Austronesian lexical elements in Philippine
>> Negrito languages. Oceanic Linguistics 33:37-72 (1994).
>
>Thanks, interesting. Isn't Austronesian closest related to Tai-Kradai, both from southern China (or perhaps the now submerged land between China and Taiwan)?
>Philippine negritos eg. Mambawa have Denisovan admixture, as do Papuans and Australian aboriginals, while Malayan and Andaman aborigines do not.
>I think the original Jomon in southern Japan were negritos, who mixed heavily with later Ainu and then still later Korean migrants.
>I'll seek Reid's article.
So now, in these non directly linguistic matters, you do accept
serious mainstream science, and you do not make up your own
fantasy research, as you do do for etymology? Why? Why this
difference? I sincerely don't understand.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> L.A.Reid, Possible non-Austronesian lexical elements in Philippine
>> Negrito languages. Oceanic Linguistics 33:37-72 (1994).
>
>Thanks, interesting. Isn't Austronesian closest related to Tai-Kradai, both from southern China (or perhaps the now submerged land between China and Taiwan)?
>Philippine negritos eg. Mambawa have Denisovan admixture, as do Papuans and Australian aboriginals, while Malayan and Andaman aborigines do not.
>I think the original Jomon in southern Japan were negritos, who mixed heavily with later Ainu and then still later Korean migrants.
>I'll seek Reid's article.
serious mainstream science, and you do not make up your own
fantasy research, as you do do for etymology? Why? Why this
difference? I sincerely don't understand.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
Oct 16, 2022, 3:46:32 PM10/16/22
to
>Thanks, interesting. Isn't Austronesian closest related to
>Tai-Kradai, both from southern China
You routinely ignore relatedness of languages, and you deny the
>Tai-Kradai, both from southern China
relevance of it. So I refuse to answer this question, even if I knew
anything about the subject, which I do not. See Wikipedia.
Daud Deden
Oct 16, 2022, 8:40:19 PM10/16/22
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Daud Deden
Oct 16, 2022, 8:42:50 PM10/16/22
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Daud Deden
Oct 16, 2022, 8:44:07 PM10/16/22
to
Daud Deden
Oct 16, 2022, 10:15:35 PM10/16/22
to
*pā-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to protect, feed."
It forms all or part of: antipasto; appanage; bannock; bezoar; companion; company; feed; fodder; food; forage; foray; foster; fur; furrier; impanate; pabulum; panatela; panic (n.2) "type of grass;" pannier; panocha; pantry; pastern; pastor; pasture; pester; repast; satrap.
It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Greek pateisthai "to feed;" Latin pabulum "food, fodder," panis "bread," pasci "to feed," pascare "to graze, pasture, feed," pastor "shepherd," literally "feeder;" Avestan pitu- "food;" Old Church Slavonic pasti "feed cattle, pasture;" Russian pishcha "food;" Old English foda, Gothic fodeins "food, nourishment
Company xyuambuatlay
Daud Deden
Oct 18, 2022, 7:29:53 PM10/18/22
to
On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:17:58 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
Andrew comes up with a few connections.
Daud Deden
Oct 18, 2022, 7:36:07 PM10/18/22
to
Hominoids
Great apes have 24 pair chromosomes, humans have 23. When did this split occur? Claims reach from 13ma to .9ma, but generally consensus is about 5ma, human and chimp divergence. This new computation indicates that early Homo erectus had ape-like chromosome count of 24 pairs, then mutated just before neanderthals and denisovans split off.
-
HSA2 fusion 23 paired chrom. Homo, 24 in great apes
BMC Genomics volume 23, Article number: 616 (2022)
Abstract
Background
The reduction of the chromosome number from 48 in the Great Apes to 46 in modern humans is thought to result from the end-to-end fusion of two ancestral non-human primate chromosomes forming the human chromosome 2 (HSA2). Genomic signatures of this event are the presence of inverted telomeric repeats at the HSA2 fusion site and a block of degenerate satellite sequences that mark the remnants of the ancestral centromere. It has been estimated that this fusion arose up to 4.5 million years ago (Mya).
Results
We have developed an enhanced algorithm for the detection and efficient counting of the locally over-represented weak-to-strong (AT to GC) substitutions. By analyzing the enrichment of these substitutions around the fusion site of HSA2 we estimated its formation time at 0.9 Mya with a 95% confidence interval of 0.4-1.5 Mya. Additionally, based on the statistics derived from our algorithm, we have reconstructed the evolutionary distances among the Great Apes (Hominoidea).
Conclusions
Our results shed light on the HSA2 fusion formation and provide a novel computational alternative for the estimation of the speciation chronology
https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12864-022-08828-7
Great apes have 24 pair chromosomes, humans have 23. When did this split occur? Claims reach from 13ma to .9ma, but generally consensus is about 5ma, human and chimp divergence. This new computation indicates that early Homo erectus had ape-like chromosome count of 24 pairs, then mutated just before neanderthals and denisovans split off.
-
HSA2 fusion 23 paired chrom. Homo, 24 in great apes
BMC Genomics volume 23, Article number: 616 (2022)
Abstract
Background
The reduction of the chromosome number from 48 in the Great Apes to 46 in modern humans is thought to result from the end-to-end fusion of two ancestral non-human primate chromosomes forming the human chromosome 2 (HSA2). Genomic signatures of this event are the presence of inverted telomeric repeats at the HSA2 fusion site and a block of degenerate satellite sequences that mark the remnants of the ancestral centromere. It has been estimated that this fusion arose up to 4.5 million years ago (Mya).
Results
We have developed an enhanced algorithm for the detection and efficient counting of the locally over-represented weak-to-strong (AT to GC) substitutions. By analyzing the enrichment of these substitutions around the fusion site of HSA2 we estimated its formation time at 0.9 Mya with a 95% confidence interval of 0.4-1.5 Mya. Additionally, based on the statistics derived from our algorithm, we have reconstructed the evolutionary distances among the Great Apes (Hominoidea).
Conclusions
Our results shed light on the HSA2 fusion formation and provide a novel computational alternative for the estimation of the speciation chronology
https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12864-022-08828-7
ex falso quodlibet
Oct 18, 2022, 9:09:35 PM10/18/22
to
On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 12:26:07 AM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> Not sure, I think there are 4 Paleo-etymology threads of about 1,000 posts.
> I aim to add 400 more posts here, total of about 6,000 posts & comments.
This is just a test
> Not sure, I think there are 4 Paleo-etymology threads of about 1,000 posts.
> I aim to add 400 more posts here, total of about 6,000 posts & comments.
Daud Deden
Oct 20, 2022, 2:07:27 AM10/20/22
to
The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
This ksar remains a historical enigma.
Built in the middle of an ocean of sand dunes, in the middle of nowhere, it has never revealed its secrets.
Some Algerian archaeologists and historians have looked into its history, as have many foreign archaeologists, but its stones and soil have remained silent.
Double-walled tall stone circular crenulated fortress / caravanserai far from coast
Ksar, ksour plural @Berber/Arabic related to castle, perhaps to kota @ Mly, Khotan fort
Draa is a watershed in Morocco's Atlas mountains where the relic Dades trout live, but I don't know the meaning, possibly drain, draw (hydrau?).
https://www.archeotravelers.com/en/2020/11/06/the-mysterious-ksar-of-draa-in-timimoun/
(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
This ksar remains a historical enigma.
Built in the middle of an ocean of sand dunes, in the middle of nowhere, it has never revealed its secrets.
Some Algerian archaeologists and historians have looked into its history, as have many foreign archaeologists, but its stones and soil have remained silent.
Double-walled tall stone circular crenulated fortress / caravanserai far from coast
Ksar, ksour plural @Berber/Arabic related to castle, perhaps to kota @ Mly, Khotan fort
Draa is a watershed in Morocco's Atlas mountains where the relic Dades trout live, but I don't know the meaning, possibly drain, draw (hydrau?).
https://www.archeotravelers.com/en/2020/11/06/the-mysterious-ksar-of-draa-in-timimoun/
Ruud Harmsen
Oct 20, 2022, 9:28:01 AM10/20/22
to
Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksar Look at how it is written in
Arabic.
Reflexes of it are seem in numerous geographical names like Alcázar in
Spanish, and e.g. Alcácer do Sal (the "Salt Castle") in Portugal.
>This ksar remains a historical enigma.
>Built in the middle of an ocean of sand dunes, in the middle of nowhere, it has never revealed its secrets.
>Some Algerian archaeologists and historians have looked into its history, as have many foreign archaeologists, but its stones and soil have remained silent.
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksar Look at how it is written in
Arabic.
Reflexes of it are seem in numerous geographical names like Alcázar in
Spanish, and e.g. Alcácer do Sal (the "Salt Castle") in Portugal.
>This ksar remains a historical enigma.
>Built in the middle of an ocean of sand dunes, in the middle of nowhere, it has never revealed its secrets.
>Some Algerian archaeologists and historians have looked into its history, as have many foreign archaeologists, but its stones and soil have remained silent.
Daud Deden
Oct 21, 2022, 12:47:56 AM10/21/22
to
On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
citadel (n.)
> Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
"fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
Daud Deden
Oct 21, 2022, 5:38:00 AM10/21/22
to
On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> citadel (n.)
> "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
It bears comparing cita to kota, both modern words meaning 'defended populated concentrations' cf canada (containment of people (maybe surrounded by a palisade (tall fence of sharp-tipped poles))) which links back to canastros/cannister and kantong/kampong @ Mly.
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> citadel (n.)
> "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 21, 2022, 8:54:09 AM10/21/22
to
On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>
> citadel (n.)
> "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>
> I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>
> citadel (n.)
> "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>
> I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
Daud Deden
Oct 21, 2022, 3:02:54 PM10/21/22
to
Ruud Harmsen
Oct 22, 2022, 5:10:53 AM10/22/22
to
Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
article I earled you to.
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>
>> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>> >
>> > citadel (n.)
>> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
>> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>> >
>> > I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
>> k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
>
>No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.
The Berber is ALSO written and transcribed for you in the Wikipedia
>On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>
>> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>> >
>> > citadel (n.)
>> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
>> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>> >
>> > I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
>> k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
>
>No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.
article I earled you to.
Daud Deden
Oct 22, 2022, 7:47:17 AM10/22/22
to
On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:10:53 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>
> >> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> >> >
> >> > citadel (n.)
> >> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> >> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
That brings up a music group from Paris: https://www.uncut.co.uk/reviews/album/al-qasar-who-are-we-139879/
> Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>
> >> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> >> >
> >> > citadel (n.)
> >> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> >> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
Qasr @Arb: castle
Casa @Spn: house
Citta citadel ciuadela civitatem khotan kota hut huis hostel hotel
Metaphorically, a city is a campsite stoned, as if on steroids (bigger, beefier, heavier). Still just a shelter, from leaf & twig domeshield.
> >> >
> >> > I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
> >> k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
> >
> >No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.
> The Berber is ALSO written and transcribed for you in the Wikipedia
> article I earled you to.
https://dbpedia.org/page/Ksar
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 22, 2022, 10:50:34 AM10/22/22
to
Berber also has both k and q.
Ruud Harmsen
Oct 22, 2022, 12:07:59 PM10/22/22
to
Sat, 22 Oct 2022 04:47:16 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
actually possible that these two are related.
>Citta citadel ciuadela civitatem khotan kota hut huis hostel hotel
Casa and huis look like they could easily be related. I checked a week
or so ago, and I think they were. Wiktonary knows almost everything.
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:10:53 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>
>> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> >> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >>
>> >> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>> >> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>> >> >
>> >> > citadel (n.)
>> >> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
>> >> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>That brings up a music group from Paris: https://www.uncut.co.uk/reviews/album/al-qasar-who-are-we-139879/
>
>Qasr @Arb: castle
>Casa @Spn: house
The Arabic word, via Aramaic, comes from a Latin source, so it is
>On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:10:53 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>
>> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> >> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >>
>> >> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>> >> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>> >> >
>> >> > citadel (n.)
>> >> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
>> >> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>That brings up a music group from Paris: https://www.uncut.co.uk/reviews/album/al-qasar-who-are-we-139879/
>
>Qasr @Arb: castle
>Casa @Spn: house
actually possible that these two are related.
>Citta citadel ciuadela civitatem khotan kota hut huis hostel hotel
or so ago, and I think they were. Wiktonary knows almost everything.
Ruud Harmsen
Oct 22, 2022, 12:10:32 PM10/22/22
to
Sat, 22 Oct 2022 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
Yes, and qaHqaHa means "to cough". Daud Deden will of course think
these two are related. And they are.
>Berber also has both k and q.
>
>> > > > https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksar Look at how it is written in
>> > > > Arabic.
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
these two are related. And they are.
>Berber also has both k and q.
>
>> > > > https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksar Look at how it is written in
>> > > > Arabic.
wugi
Oct 22, 2022, 12:39:43 PM10/22/22
to
Op 22/10/2022 om 18:07 schreef Ruud Harmsen:
They aren't:
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=house
https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/huis1
--
guido wugi
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=house
https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/huis1
--
guido wugi
Daud Deden
Oct 22, 2022, 12:49:26 PM10/22/22
to
Qalb ~ lub, lobe, leaf ngo-ngo.lu shingle (cf cardio<=> cortex? re. Kupharigolu coracle coverbowl(waterproof)
> Berber also has both k and q.
Daud Deden
Oct 22, 2022, 12:55:41 PM10/22/22
to
On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 12:10:32 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Sat, 22 Oct 2022 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 3:02:54 PM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> > On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> > > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >> > > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >
> >> > > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >> > > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> >> > > citadel (n.)
> >> > > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> >> > > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
> >> > > I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
> >> > k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
> >>
> >> No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.
> >
> >Arab. kalb = dog, qalb = heart
> Yes, and qaHqaHa means "to cough". Daud Deden will of course think
> these two are related. And they are.
Prettiest arabic word I've seen: qahwa = coffee so floral & symmetrical!
> Sat, 22 Oct 2022 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 3:02:54 PM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> > On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> > > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >> > > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >
> >> > > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >> > > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> >> > > citadel (n.)
> >> > > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> >> > > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
> >> > > I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
> >> > k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
> >>
> >> No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.
> >
> >Arab. kalb = dog, qalb = heart
> Yes, and qaHqaHa means "to cough". Daud Deden will of course think
> these two are related. And they are.
قهوة
Daud Deden
Oct 22, 2022, 7:58:50 PM10/22/22