Re. Re. Paleo-etymology (Final 400)

[Daud Deden]

Not sure, I think there are 4 Paleo-etymology threads of about 1,000 posts.
I aim to add 400 more posts here, total of about 6,000 posts & comments.

[Daud Deden]

Cont'd from lace tlaca tlapa

rope (n.)
Middle English rop, from Old English rap "strong, heavy cord of considerable thickness," from Proto-Germanic *raipaz (source also of Old Norse reip, West Frisian reap, Middle Dutch, Dutch reep "rope," Old Frisian silrap "shoe-thong," Gothic skauda-raip "shoe-lace," Old High German, German reif "ring, hoop"). Technically, only cordage above one inch in circumference and below 10 (bigger-around than that is a cable). Nautical use varies. Finnish raippa "hoop, rope, twig" is a Germanic loan-word.

It is attested by early 14c. as "a noose, a snare".

(xyuambua)tlachyah trace trap rap tali
---

cord (n.)
c. 1300, corde, "a string or small rope composed of several strands twisted or woven together; bowstring, hangman's rope," from Old French corde "rope, string, twist, cord," from Latin chorda "string of a musical instrument, cat-gut," from Greek khorde "string, catgut, chord, cord," from PIE root *ghere- "intestine".

Coiled
1610s, "to wind, gather into rings one above the other" (trans.), from French coillir "to gather, pick," from Latin colligere "to gather together" from assimilated form of com "together" (see co-) + legere "to gather," from PIE root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather." Intransitive sense "to form rings or spirals

[Daud Deden]

(elicit ex + licire lacere)

How did laz/laq/lash/tlaca/tali exchange to lap/tlapa/w.rap/raipaz/rope?
Laqz > lapzh > rapaiz > rope?
-tlachyah > rapia? Unresolved.

> lace (n.)
> early 13c., laz, "cord made of braided or interwoven strands of silk, etc.," from Old French laz "a net, noose, string, cord, tie, ribbon, or snare" (Modern French lacs), from Vulgar Latin *lacium, from Latin laqueum (nominative laqueus) "a noose, a snare" (source also of Italian laccio, Spanish lazo, English lasso), a trapping and hunting term, probably from Italic base *laq- "to ensnare" (compare Latin lacere "to entice").
>
> Later also "net, noose, snare" (c. 1300); and "piece of cord used to draw together the edges of slits or openings in an article of clothing" (late 14c., as preserved in shoelace). In Middle English it mostly had the sense "cord, thread," especially for tying or binding. It was used of fishing lines and perhaps the gallows rope, crossbeams in architecture, and the net Vulcan used to catch Venus in adultery.
>
> Lash leash let (go)? Rete/net leak? Knot? Light? laquer? Lacks? Lox? loosen
> Tlaca tlapa drape tape track/trek/trace/lace drag.net
Release lease relate? Latch, lock? tendon ligament drawstring
Tali @Mly: rope, string, lace
(xyuambua)TLACHYAh

[Daud Deden]

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 9:11:45 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> (elicit ex + licire lacere)

Elicit (v.)
"to draw out, bring forth or to light," 1640s, from Latin elicitus, past participle of elicere "draw out, draw forth," from ex "out" (see ex-) + -licere, combining form of lacere "to entice, lure, deceive" (related to laqueus "noose, snare;" see lace (n.))

Explicit (adj.)
1610s, "open to the understanding, not obscure or ambiguous," from French explicite, from Latin explicitus "unobstructed," variant past participle of explicare "unfold, unroll, unravel, explain," from ex "out" (see ex-) + plicare "to fold" (from PIE root *plek- "to plait"

Oddly, elicit, explicit and illicit are all used in references to sex, as is licentiousness.

-

[Daud Deden]

-
Explicit
Implicit imply ply poly play prow plow pluvial umbel embellish
explyn explain expel born buang buah buat
xyuambuatlachyah uambuatlay wombelle embowel bowl-nest

--

[Daud Deden]

Are there any words in any language spoken in Taiwan that may derive from now-extinct indigenous aboriginal people?

ABSTRACT
Taiwan is known as the homeland of the Austronesian-speaking groups, yet other populations already had lived here since the Pleistocene. Conventional notions have postulated that the Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers were replaced or absorbed into the Neolithic Austronesian farming communities. Yet, some evidence has indicated that sparse numbers of non-Austronesian individuals continued to live in the remote mountains as late as the 1800s. The cranial morphometric study of human skeletal remains unearthed from the Xiaoma Caves in eastern Taiwan, for the first time, validates the prior existence of small stature hunter-gatherers 6000 years ago in the preceramic phase. This female individual shared remarkable cranial affinities and small stature characteristics with the Indigenous Southeast Asians, particularly the Negritos in northern Luzon. This study solves the several-hundred-years-old mysteries of ‘little black people’ legends in Formosan Austronesian tribes and brings insights into the broader prehistory of Southeast Asia.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00438243.2022.2121315

[Ross Clark]

It's perfectly possible. In fact, there could be Proto-Austronesian
words which have that origin. Identifying them is another matter.
I don't know of anybody who has claimed to do so.

In the Philippines, where there are still physically Negrito populations
(though they speak Austronesian languages), I think Laurie Reid has
claimed to find some "Negrito vocabulary". (It's a little like the
arguments about "Pygmy vocabulary" in Africa.)

L.A.Reid, Possible non-Austronesian lexical elements in Philippine
Negrito languages. Oceanic Linguistics 33:37-72 (1994).

[Daud Deden]

Thanks, interesting. Isn't Austronesian closest related to Tai-Kradai, both from southern China (or perhaps the now submerged land between China and Taiwan)?
Philippine negritos eg. Mambawa have Denisovan admixture, as do Papuans and Australian aboriginals, while Malayan and Andaman aborigines do not.
I think the original Jomon in southern Japan were negritos, who mixed heavily with later Ainu and then still later Korean migrants.
I'll seek Reid's article.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Sat, 15 Oct 2022 20:14:18 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>> L.A.Reid, Possible non-Austronesian lexical elements in Philippine
>> Negrito languages. Oceanic Linguistics 33:37-72 (1994).
>
>Thanks, interesting. Isn't Austronesian closest related to Tai-Kradai, both from southern China (or perhaps the now submerged land between China and Taiwan)?
>Philippine negritos eg. Mambawa have Denisovan admixture, as do Papuans and Australian aboriginals, while Malayan and Andaman aborigines do not.
>I think the original Jomon in southern Japan were negritos, who mixed heavily with later Ainu and then still later Korean migrants.
>I'll seek Reid's article.

So now, in these non directly linguistic matters, you do accept
serious mainstream science, and you do not make up your own
fantasy research, as you do do for etymology? Why? Why this
difference? I sincerely don't understand.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

[Ruud Harmsen]

Sat, 15 Oct 2022 20:14:18 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>Thanks, interesting. Isn't Austronesian closest related to
>Tai-Kradai, both from southern China

You routinely ignore relatedness of languages, and you deny the
relevance of it. So I refuse to answer this question, even if I knew
anything about the subject, which I do not. See Wikipedia.

[Daud Deden]

Errata: Mamanwa not mambawa. Tai-Kadai not Tai-Kradai.

[Daud Deden]

We know you don't understand, you consistently prove that.

[Daud Deden]

There is one human language, there are many dialects, Dutch is an example.

[Daud Deden]

*pā-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to protect, feed."

It forms all or part of: antipasto; appanage; bannock; bezoar; companion; company; feed; fodder; food; forage; foray; foster; fur; furrier; impanate; pabulum; panatela; panic (n.2) "type of grass;" pannier; panocha; pantry; pastern; pastor; pasture; pester; repast; satrap.

It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Greek pateisthai "to feed;" Latin pabulum "food, fodder," panis "bread," pasci "to feed," pascare "to graze, pasture, feed," pastor "shepherd," literally "feeder;" Avestan pitu- "food;" Old Church Slavonic pasti "feed cattle, pasture;" Russian pishcha "food;" Old English foda, Gothic fodeins "food, nourishment

Company xyuambuatlay

[Daud Deden]

On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:17:58 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:

http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2022/10/paleo-formosans.html?m=1
Andrew comes up with a few connections.

[Daud Deden]

Hominoids
Great apes have 24 pair chromosomes, humans have 23. When did this split occur? Claims reach from 13ma to .9ma, but generally consensus is about 5ma, human and chimp divergence. This new computation indicates that early Homo erectus had ape-like chromosome count of 24 pairs, then mutated just before neanderthals and denisovans split off.
-

HSA2 fusion 23 paired chrom. Homo, 24 in great apes
BMC Genomics volume 23, Article number: 616 (2022)

Abstract
Background
The reduction of the chromosome number from 48 in the Great Apes to 46 in modern humans is thought to result from the end-to-end fusion of two ancestral non-human primate chromosomes forming the human chromosome 2 (HSA2). Genomic signatures of this event are the presence of inverted telomeric repeats at the HSA2 fusion site and a block of degenerate satellite sequences that mark the remnants of the ancestral centromere. It has been estimated that this fusion arose up to 4.5 million years ago (Mya).

Results
We have developed an enhanced algorithm for the detection and efficient counting of the locally over-represented weak-to-strong (AT to GC) substitutions. By analyzing the enrichment of these substitutions around the fusion site of HSA2 we estimated its formation time at 0.9 Mya with a 95% confidence interval of 0.4-1.5 Mya. Additionally, based on the statistics derived from our algorithm, we have reconstructed the evolutionary distances among the Great Apes (Hominoidea).

Conclusions
Our results shed light on the HSA2 fusion formation and provide a novel computational alternative for the estimation of the speciation chronology

https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12864-022-08828-7

[ex falso quodlibet]

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 12:26:07 AM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> Not sure, I think there are 4 Paleo-etymology threads of about 1,000 posts.
> I aim to add 400 more posts here, total of about 6,000 posts & comments.

This is just a test

[Daud Deden]

The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).

This ksar remains a historical enigma.
Built in the middle of an ocean of sand dunes, in the middle of nowhere, it has never revealed its secrets.
Some Algerian archaeologists and historians have looked into its history, as have many foreign archaeologists, but its stones and soil have remained silent.

Double-walled tall stone circular crenulated fortress / caravanserai far from coast

Ksar, ksour plural @Berber/Arabic related to castle, perhaps to kota @ Mly, Khotan fort

Draa is a watershed in Morocco's Atlas mountains where the relic Dades trout live, but I don't know the meaning, possibly drain, draw (hydrau?).

https://www.archeotravelers.com/en/2020/11/06/the-mysterious-ksar-of-draa-in-timimoun/

[Ruud Harmsen]

Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).

You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksar Look at how it is written in
Arabic.

Reflexes of it are seem in numerous geographical names like Alcázar in
Spanish, and e.g. Alcácer do Sal (the "Salt Castle") in Portugal.

>This ksar remains a historical enigma.
>Built in the middle of an ocean of sand dunes, in the middle of nowhere, it has never revealed its secrets.
>Some Algerian archaeologists and historians have looked into its history, as have many foreign archaeologists, but its stones and soil have remained silent.

[Daud Deden]

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).

citadel (n.)
"fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).

> You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:

I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.

[Daud Deden]

On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> citadel (n.)
> "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).

It bears comparing cita to kota, both modern words meaning 'defended populated concentrations' cf canada (containment of people (maybe surrounded by a palisade (tall fence of sharp-tipped poles))) which links back to canastros/cannister and kantong/kampong @ Mly.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

> > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>
> citadel (n.)
> "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>
> I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.

k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.

[Daud Deden]

No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden

<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>
>> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>> >
>> > citadel (n.)
>> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
>> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>> >
>> > I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
>> k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
>
>No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.

The Berber is ALSO written and transcribed for you in the Wikipedia
article I earled you to.

>> > > https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksar Look at how it is written in
>> > > Arabic.

[Daud Deden]

On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:10:53 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>
> >> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> >> >
> >> > citadel (n.)
> >> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> >> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:

That brings up a music group from Paris: https://www.uncut.co.uk/reviews/album/al-qasar-who-are-we-139879/

Qasr @Arb: castle
Casa @Spn: house
Citta citadel ciuadela civitatem khotan kota hut huis hostel hotel

Metaphorically, a city is a campsite stoned, as if on steroids (bigger, beefier, heavier). Still just a shelter, from leaf & twig domeshield.

> >> >
> >> > I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.

Some other site, I guess.

> >> k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
> >
> >No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.
> The Berber is ALSO written and transcribed for you in the Wikipedia
> article I earled you to.

Ok, now I see it. Something like ighre.m? ~ iglu/ngualua?
https://dbpedia.org/page/Ksar

[Peter T. Daniels]

Arab. kalb = dog, qalb = heart

Berber also has both k and q.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Sat, 22 Oct 2022 04:47:16 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden

<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:10:53 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>
>> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> >> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >>
>> >> > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
>> >> > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
>> >> >
>> >> > citadel (n.)
>> >> > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
>> >> > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
>That brings up a music group from Paris: https://www.uncut.co.uk/reviews/album/al-qasar-who-are-we-139879/
>
>Qasr @Arb: castle
>Casa @Spn: house

The Arabic word, via Aramaic, comes from a Latin source, so it is
actually possible that these two are related.

>Citta citadel ciuadela civitatem khotan kota hut huis hostel hotel

Casa and huis look like they could easily be related. I checked a week
or so ago, and I think they were. Wiktonary knows almost everything.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Sat, 22 Oct 2022 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

Yes, and qaHqaHa means "to cough". Daud Deden will of course think
these two are related. And they are.

>Berber also has both k and q.
>
>> > > > https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksar Look at how it is written in
>> > > > Arabic.

[wugi]

Op 22/10/2022 om 18:07 schreef Ruud Harmsen:

They aren't:
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=house
https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/huis1

--
guido wugi

[Daud Deden]

Kalb ~ Wolf, whelp, ku(alp/an) kuon
Qalb ~ lub, lobe, leaf ngo-ngo.lu shingle (cf cardio<=> cortex? re. Kupharigolu coracle coverbowl(waterproof)

> Berber also has both k and q.

Ok.

[Daud Deden]

On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 12:10:32 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Sat, 22 Oct 2022 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 3:02:54 PM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:54:09 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> > On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 12:47:56 AM UTC-4, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:28:01 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> > > > Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:07:26 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >> > > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >
> >> > > > >The mysterious and enigmatic "Ksar Draa", about fifty kilometers from the red city of Timimoun, in the middle of the Algerian Sahara.
> >> > > > >(Ksar in Berber or Arabic means fortified village or fort).
> >> > > citadel (n.)
> >> > > "fortress commanding a city," 1580s, from French citadelle (15c.), from Italian cittadella, diminutive of Old Italian cittade "city" (Modern Italian citta), from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas; also source of Portuguese citadella, Spanish ciuadela; see city).
> >> > > > You mean qaSar, a totally different and unrelated word:
> >> > > I pasted the defn. Ksar, qsar from that site.
> >> > k and q are NOT interchangeable in Arabic.
> >>
> >> No, but the site wrote them as if they are (ksar, qsar). Perhaps in Berber.
> >
> >Arab. kalb = dog, qalb = heart
> Yes, and qaHqaHa means "to cough". Daud Deden will of course think
> these two are related. And they are.

Prettiest arabic word I've seen: qahwa = coffee so floral & symmetrical!
قهوة

[Daud Deden]

Tete @Azt: dad (dada, daddy)

[Ruud Harmsen]

Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:55:39 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 12:10:32 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sat, 22 Oct 2022 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"

>> >Arab. kalb = dog, qalb = heart
>> Yes, and qaHqaHa means "to cough". Daud Deden will of course think
>> these two are related. And they are.
>
>Prettiest arabic word I've seen: qahwa = coffee so floral & symmetrical!

Not the same h, sounds very different. The other one is an
onomatopoeia.

[Daud Deden]

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 1:26:07 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Not sure, I think there are 4 Paleo-etymology threads of about 1,000 posts.
> I aim to add 400 more posts here, total of about 6,000 posts & comments.

we, an army and navy of Stsiugnil
are hunted and gathered here today
in the backwoods of the world's interior
to reconsider the past present and future
communication and community of humanity

?

[Daud Deden]

issue (n.)
c. 1300, "an exit," from Old French issue "a way out, a going out, exit; final event," from fem. past participle of issir "to go out," from Latin exire "go out, go forth; become public; flow, gush, pour forth" (source also of Italian uscire, Catalan exir), from ex- "out" (see ex-) + ire "to go," from PIE root *ei- "to go.

[Daud Deden]

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 9:43:19 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> issue (n.)
> c. 1300, "an exit," from Old French issue "a way out, a going out, exit; final event," from fem. past participle of issir "to go out," from Latin exire "go out, go forth; become public; flow, gush, pour forth" (source also of Italian uscire, Catalan exir), from ex- "out" (see ex-) + ire "to go," from PIE root *ei- "to go.

tissue (n.)
mid-14c., "band or belt of rich material," from Old French tissu "a ribbon, headband, belt of woven material" (c. 1200), noun use of tissu "woven, interlaced," past participle of tistre "to weave," from Latin texere "to weave, to make," from PIE root *teks- "to weave," also "to fabricate." The biological sense is first recorded 1831, from French, introduced c. 1800 by French anatomist Marie-François-Xavier Bichal (1771-1802). Meaning "piece of absorbent paper used as a handkerchief" is from 1929. Tissue-paper is from 1777, supposedly so called because it was made to be placed between tissues to protect them.

[Daud Deden]

-

Clarke's three laws

British science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke formulated three adages that are known as Clarke's three laws, of which the third law is the best known and most widely cited. They are part of his ideas in his extensive writings about the future.[1]

When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[Daud Deden]

caravanserai (n.)
1590s, carvanzara, "Eastern inn (with a large central court) catering to caravans," ultimately from Persian karwan-sarai, from karwan (see caravan) + sara'i "palace, mansion; inn," from Iranian base *thraya- "to protect" (from PIE root *tere- (2) "cross over, pass through,

xyua.mbuaTLA(ch)YAh open.pass.through pass/piss/pizzle, buatl bear-birth

[Daud Deden]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 at 19:31, DDeden <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:\

Are these similar words linked to cant? Seem so.
Lean cline climb clamber camber slant glance (off) de.cant scan land(?) scale scar scarf (scroll?) scarp(cliff geol.) carve en.grave scrive scribe scansorial
Skape shape landscape escarpment? Rift scar.ify

> scan (v.)
> late 14c., scannen, "to mark off verse in metric feet, analyze verse according to its meter," from Late Latin scandere "to scan verse," originally, in classical Latin, "to climb, rise, mount" (the connecting notion is of the rising and falling rhythm of poetry), from PIE *skand- "to spring, leap, climb" (source also of Sanskrit skandati "hastens, leaps, jumps;" Greek skandalon "stumbling block;" Middle Irish sescaind "he sprang, jumped," sceinm "a bound, jump").
>
> English lost the classical -d- probably by confusion with suffix -ed (compare lawn (n.1)). Intransitive meaning "follow or agree with the rules of meter" is by 1857. The sense of "look at point by point, examine minutely (as one does when counting metrical feet in poetry)" is recorded by 1540s. New technology brought the meaning "systematically pass over with a scanner," especially to convert into a sequence of signals (1928). The (opposite) sense of "look over quickly, skim" is attested by 1926.
> Cf ascent descent scale lean/cline/climb?
> Naik @Mly: asc. turun desc.
> Cant.or slant
>
> cant (n.1)
> "pretentious or insincere talk, ostentatious conventionality in speech," 1709. The earliest use is as a slang word for "the whining speech of beggars asking for alms" (1640s), from the verb in this sense (1560s), from Old North French canter (Old French chanter) "to sing, chant," from Latin cantare, frequentative of canere "to sing" (from PIE root *kan- "to sing"
>
> cant (n.2)
> slope, slant," late 14c., first in Scottish writing and apparently meaning "edge, brink," a word of uncertain origin. "words identical in form and corresponding in sense are found in many languages, Teutonic, Slavonic, Romanic, Celtic" [OED]. It was rare in English before c. 1600. Meaning "slope, slanting or tilting position" is from 1847
>
> Linked to lifting/lowering domeshield, tilt on edge, ground-hinged leverage, cant-hook
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cant_hook originally a spearbutt, then tomahawk?, then canthook or peavy for tilting logs to cut
>
> Perhaps via Old North French cant "corner" (itself perhaps via Middle Low German kante or Middle Dutch kant), from Vulgar Latin *canthus, from Latin cantus "iron tire of a wheel," which is possibly from a Celtic word meaning "rim of wheel, edge, brim" (compare Welsh cant "bordering of a circle, tire, edge," Breton cant "circle"). The ultimate connections of these are uncertain. Greek kanthos "corner of the eye," and Russian kutu "corner" sometimes are suggested, but there are difficulties (see Beekes)

Cantilever
Decant: decant (v.)
1630s, "pour off gently the clear liquid from a solution by tipping the vessel," originally an alchemical term, from French décanter, perhaps from Medieval Latin decanthare "to pour from the edge of a vessel," from de- "off, away" (see de-) + Medieval Latin canthus "corner, lip of a jug," from Latin cantus, canthus "iron rim around a carriage wheel" (see cant (n.2)). Related: Decanted

DD ~ David ~ Da'ud ~ Diode ~ ∆^¥°∆

[Ross Clark]

On 28/10/2022 12:39 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 at 19:31, DDeden <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:\
>
> Are these similar words linked to cant? Seem so.

Seem not, to me. Not all of them, anyway

cant, decant < Lat < Celtic *kantho < *kemb 'bend, turn'

cantilever (orign unknown)

lean, cline < *klei ‘lean’

slant (no cognates beyond English)

glance (off) < Lat glacies 'ice' < *gel 'cold'

climb, clamber ? < **gel? ‘grip’

camber < Lat camurus 'curved inwards'

scan, scansorial < *skand 'leap, climb'

land < *lendh 'open land'

This leaves us with a bunch that come from roots meaning 'cut, scratch' etc.

shape, landscape < *(s)kep cut, scrape, hack
(don't know what "Skape" is)

rift *rei 'scratch, tear, cut'

The following have a little more in common, namely velar stop + liquid
in the root:

carve < *gerbh 'scratch'

engrave < *ghrebh 'dig, bury, scratch'

scale < *(s)kel 'cut'


scarp(cliff geol.), escarpment, scarf [wood], scar [geol] < *(s)ker 'cut'

And these from extensions of *(s)ker:

scribe < *skrībh < *sker
(don't know what "scrive" is)

scroll < *skreu 'cut, cutting tool' < *sker 'cut'

All the above from Watkins plus a couple of dictionaries.

[Daud Deden]

-
Thanks, interesting. These 3 refer to a bound/bounce/reflection/angle/richochet, a bent path, close to decant & skand.

glance (v.)
mid-15c., of weapons, "strike obliquely without giving full impact," a nasalized form of glacen "to graze, strike a glancing blow" (c. 1300), from Old French glacier "to slip, make slippery" (compare Old French glaciere "part of a knight's armor meant to deflect blows"), from glace "ice" (see glacial). Sense of "look quickly" (first recorded 1580s) probably was by influence of Middle English glenten "look askance" (see glint (v.)), which also could account for the -n-.

glint (v.)
1787 (intransitive), from Scottish, where apparently it survived as an alteration of glent, from Middle English glenten "gleam, flash, glisten" (mid-15c.), from a Scandinavian source (compare Norwegian gletta "to look," dialectal Swedish glinta "to shine"), from the group of Germanic *gl- words meaning "smooth; shining; joyous," from PIE root *ghel- (2) "to shine," with derivatives referring to bright materials and gold. Reintroduced into literary English by Burns

graze (v.2)
"to touch lightly in passing," c. 1600, perhaps a transferred sense from graze (v.1) via a notion of cropping grass right down to the ground (compare German grasen "to feed on grass," used in military sense in reference to cannonballs that rebound off the ground

Discard land, unless linked to lend (bounce back to owner?)

Perhaps include (via camber?) akimbo and skip (stone on water)

[I thought (land)skape and scrive(ner) were words.]
-

[Daud Deden]

https://www.etymonline.com/word/glimpse
https://www.etymonline.com/word/glaze?ref=etymonline_crossreference

[Daud Deden]

Scart, scot-free, skeud
https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=56808#more-56808

[Daud Deden]

OT health

Mimic true smile to feel happy

concept of being able to influence our emotions by simply moving our facial muscles has long been debated by researchers, but until now, no test or theory has been globally agreed upon.

"In this study, we assembled a team of sceptics and a team of believers (called the 'Many Smiles Collaboration') to test a mutually agreed methodology, and what we found was reliable evidence that the physical formation of a smile can produce feelings of happiness."

The study tested three well-known techniques:

1) mimicking facial expressions of actors seen in photos;

2) moving the corners of their mouths to their cheeks using only their facial muscles; and

3) using the 'pen-in-mouth' technique which moves the facial muscles in a simulated smile shape.

"Two out of three of these conditions generated noticeable increases in happiness, providing a compelling argument that human emotions are linked to muscle movements," Dr Marmolejo-Ramos says.

"But as the pen-in-mouth technique didn't achieve the same mood changes (possibly because the simulated mouth shape wasn't as representative of a smile as we thought) we can't say with absolute certainty that one always causes the other.

"Still, the evidence is strong, and knowing that we can somewhat 'fake it 'til we make it', is definitely a reassuring proposal."

-

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/10/221027124012.htm

Sugar & sedentary => diabetes 2, obesity,

[Daud Deden]

Kwibuka @ Kinyarwanda : to remember
Ingat @ Moy : to remember

[Daud Deden]

On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:56:28 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Kwibuka @ Kinyarwanda : to remember

> Ingat @ Mly : to remember

We use remember but mean recollect.
Remember implies that a thing exists in the memory, not that it is actually present in the thoughts at the moment, but that it recurs without effort. Recollect means that a fact, forgotten or partially lost to memory, is after some effort recalled and present to the mind. Remembrance is the store-house, recollection the act of culling out this article and that from the repository. He remembers everything he hears, and can recollect any statement when called on. The words, however, are often confounded, and we say we cannot remember a thing when we mean we cannot recollect. Cent dict.

(re)collect = (en)gather ~ ingat?

[Daud Deden]

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=56853#more-56853

word ‘Ukraine’ itself. In most Slavonic languages, the letter ‘U’ – and written in Cyrillic as У – is a preposition of location; according to context it can be translated as ‘in’, ’on’ ‘at’ or ‘near’, and it is followed by nouns in the genitive case. In Ukrainian, the word Kray means ‘edge’ (although in Russian it means ‘land’ or ‘country’). So ‘U Krayu’ stands for ‘At the Edge’, and Ukraina for ‘the Land on the Edge’ or ‘Borderland’. It is very similar to the American idea of the ‘Frontier’.


The question ‘on the edge of what?’, however, sparks controversy. One answer, since the term first appears in mediaeval times when Ukraine lay within the Jagiellonian realms of Poland-Lithuania, would be: ‘the borderland of Poland-Lithuania’. Others might say that Ukraine was ‘the Edge of Christendom’ or possibly of civilised settlement before the endless steppe. Russians think that Ukraine is the borderland of Russia.

[Daud Deden]

https://www.etymology-online.com/ingathering
Recorded 1525
The Century Dictionary.
noun The act of gathering or collecting together; specifically, the gathering in or storing of a harvest

[Daud Deden]

Bengston & Ruhlen

MANA ‘to stay (in a place)’ < [xyuaMBUATLA, njaMBUANGDUALUA] > dwell; mongolu @ Mbuti : dome hut]

?Nilo-Saharan:
Tatoga
mi˙ n ‘to stand,’ Shabo ma Ñ -ka ‘to sit.’ [NSB, HF 12]

Afro-Asiatic:
Proto-Afro-Asiatic
*mn ‘to remain, be firm’; Ancient Egyp-tian mn ‘to remain,’ Coptic mun; Semitic: Proto-Semitic *’mn
‘to be firm,safe,’ Arabic ’munu ‘to be loyal to someone,’ ’manu ‘to be safe,’ Geez
’mn ‘to be faithful,’ Syriac ’am¯ın ‘firm,’ Classical Hebrew (n-)’mn
‘to be per-manent, safe’; Omotic: Gofa
min ‘to be firm, strong’; Cushitic: Oromo
man¯ a ‘house, home,’ Somali
m¯ın; Chadic: Musgu mine ‘to be.’ [CS 38, N287, UOL 192]
?Kartvelian:
Georgian mena
‘dwelling’ (possibly a borrowing from Iranian languages). [N 287]
Indo-European:
Proto-Indo-European
*men ‘to remain’; Indic: Sanskrit man ‘to linger, not budge from a place’; Iranian: Old Persian
man ‘to remain, wait for’; Armenian mnam
‘I remain, wait for’; Italic: Latin
man(-ere) ‘to remain’; Tocharian: Tocharian A
m˜ ne ‘waiting,’
m¨ask (< *men-sk ) ‘to be.’ [IE 729, N 287, UOL 192]
Dravidian:
Proto-Dravidian
*man ‘to remain in a place,’ Brahui
manning ‘to become, be,’ Malto mene, Kurux mann¯ a,
Kuwi man ‘to be, remain, stay,’ Konda man ‘to be, stay, dwell,’ Parji men ‘to be, stay,’ Telugu
manu ‘to live, exist,’ mannu
‘to last, be durable,’ Malayalam
mannuka ‘to standfast,’ Tamil man¯ n¯ u
‘to be permanent, remain long, stay.’ [D 4778, N 287]
Tungus:
Evenki m¯¨an¯¨a ‘to live settled, stay in camp for a long time in one place,’
Negidal m¨an¨aˇg¨a ‘to remain.’ [N 287]
Caucasian:
Proto-Caucasian
*
÷
i-ma(n)-
‘to stay, be,’ Hurrian
mann-
‘to be.’[
NSC 111
]
Basque
min
‘to place, set up, settle.’
Burushaski
m
ä
n(-
ä
s)
‘to be, become.’ [
B 257
]
Indo-Pacific:
South New Guinea: Makleu
man
‘to sit,’ Jab
m¨on
; Cen-tral New Guinea: Siane
min
‘to stay, sit,’ Gende
mina
‘stay,’ Mogei
mana(-munt)
‘to sit,’ Kuno
amen(-nyint)
; Northeast New Guinea: Lang-tub
min
‘to stay’; Unclassified New Guinea: Waruna
mana
‘to dwell,’Gogodala
mana
‘to sit, stay.’ [
IP 65
]
Amerind:
Almosan-Keresiouan: Nootka
ma-
‘dwell’; Penutian: Tsimshian
m¯ an
‘remain,’ Kalapuya
m¯ an
ì
-
‘wait,’ Maidu
ma
‘be,’ Zuni
÷
¯ıma
‘sit’;Hokan: Subtiaba
-ama
; Chibchan-Paezan: Cacaopera
ima
‘wait,’ Puruha
ma
‘be,’ Timicua
-ma
‘inside’; Andean: Cholona
-man
‘in,’ Aymara
mankxa
‘inside,’ Araucanian
minu,
Quechua
ma-
‘be,’ Yahgan
mani
‘be,’
jumanana
‘live,’
m¨oni
‘remain,’
kamani
‘stand’; Equatorial: Dzubucua
ma˜ ne
‘remain,’ Otomi
yamania
‘live,’ Paumari
gamanani
‘stand,’ Coche
xamnan
‘be’; Macro-Carib: Yameo
mune
‘sit down,’ Ocaina
m¯ un
÷
xo
‘re-main,’ Apiaca
umano
‘wait’; Macro-Panoan: Cashinawa
mana,
Shipibo
manei
‘remain,’ Chacobo
man-
‘wait,’ Panobo
manai,
Lule
-ma
‘in’; Macro-Ge: Botocudo
m¯en
‘remain,’ Crengez
moinj
‘to sit,’ Capoxo
moinjam,
Bororo
a¯ mu
∼
a¯ mi
‘to rest,’ Cayapo
kaimaniun
‘stand,’
kaman
‘inside,’Tibagi
ema
‘dwell,’ [
AM: G46, A 59, MG 99, AMN
]15 MANO ‘man’
?Niger-Congo:
Bantu: Mbudikum-Bamum
-mani
‘man,’ Rwanda
mana,
Nyanja
-muna,
Ci-ambo
-mna.
Nilo-Saharan:
East Sudanic: Me’en
m
è÷è
n-
‘person,’ Maban
m
è
n
@
n
@
u,
Tama
ma,
Ik
am,
Didinga
mat
s
‘male,’ Merarit
mo,
Dinka
mot
s
,
Maban: Mabang
ma-ˇsu
‘person.’ [
ES70, NSB
]
Afro-Asiatic:
Proto-Afro-Asiatic
*mn
‘male, man, person’; Ancient Egyp-tian
mnw
‘Min, a phallic deity,’ Old Egyptian
mnyw
‘herdsman’; Omotic:Wolamo
min¯ o
‘warrior,’ Janjero
mon¯ o
‘people’; Cushitic: Proto-Cushitic
*mn
‘man,’ Burji
m´een-a
‘people,’ Somali
mun
‘male,’ Hadiyya
manna
‘people,’
man-ˇco
‘person,’ Tembaro
mana,
Iraqw
ameni
‘woman’; Berber:
Zenaga
uman
‘kin,’ Ghadames
iman
‘person,’ Zwawa
iman,
Qabyle
iman
;Chadic: Proto-Chadic
*mn(j)
‘man,’ Proto-West Chadic
*mani
‘man, hus-band,’ Karekare
men
‘people,’ Kanakuru
minja,
Bata
m¯ ano
‘man,’ Musgu
muni
‘woman,’ Logone
m¯eni
‘man, person,’ Dari
m¯ anji
‘person.’ [
AA 78,N 292, OS 801, LN 292
]
Indo-European:
Proto-Indo-European
*manu(-s)
∼
*monu(-s)
‘man’; Indic:Sanskrit
m´anu
∼
m´anus .
‘man, person’; Iranian: Avestan
*manus
‘man’;Germanic: Gothic
manna,
Old High German
man,
English man (pl. men),woman (
<
wife + man); Slavic: Old Church Slavic
mo
ª
ˇz˘ı
(
<
*mon-g-jo-
),Russian
muˇz
‘husband.’ [
IE 700, N 292
]
Uralic:
Proto-Uralic (Illich-Svitych)
*m¨a´n´ce
‘man, person’; Ugric: Vogul
m
è
´n´ci
∼
ma´n´si
(self-name), Ostyak
ma´nt

∼
mo´nt

∼
m
ë
´s
∼
ma´s
(self-name of one Ostyak clan), Hungarian
magyar
(self-name); Finnic: Finnish
mies,
Estonian
mees.
[
U 114, N 292
]
Dravidian:
Kolami
m¯ as
‘man,’
m¯ ac
‘husband,’
m¯ aca
‘wife,’ Naikri
m¯ as
‘man,’
m¯ asal
‘woman,’ Naiki
m¯ as
‘husband,’
m¯ asa
‘wife,’ Parji
ma˜ nja
∼
ma˜ n˜ na
‘man,’ Gondi
manja
‘man, person,’ Konda
m¯ asi
‘husband,’ Kurux
m
¯˜
et
∼
m¯et
‘adult man, husband,’ Tamil
m¯ antar
‘people, men.’ [
D 4791;Illich-Svitych’s comparison (N 292) is with D 4774: Tamil
man¯
‘king, chief, husband,’etc. The two are probably related.
]
Japanese-Ryukyuan:
Old Japanese
(wo-)mina
‘woman’ (mod.
onna
). [
SY
]
Ainu
meno(-ko)
∼
mene(-ko)
‘woman.’
Caucasian:
Proto-Caucasian
*mVnxV
‘man, male.’ [
NSC 116
]
Yeniseian:
Proto-Yeniseian
*pix-
‘man.’ [
NSC 116
]
Indo-Pacific:
Bilakura
munan
‘man,’ Warenbori
mando,
Osum
aminika
‘woman,’ Ikundun
mundu
‘man.’ [
FS 92, 93, 106
]
Nahali
mancho
∼
manco
‘man,’
man-t.a
‘men.’ [
NA 89
]
Miao-Yao:
Proto-Miao-Yao
*hm
ë
n
‘person,’ Miao
hmo
Ñ
∼
hmu
Ñ
(self-nameof the Miao), Yao
man
∼
myen
∼
mun
(self-name of the Yao). [
PB 336
]
Amerind:
Almosan-Keresiouan: Bella Coola
man
‘father,’ Pentlatch
m¯ an,
Squamish
man,
Blackfoot
no-ma
‘husband’; Penutian: Coos
ma
‘per-son,’ Kalapuya
menami,
Nisenan
manai
‘boy,’ Rumsien
ama
‘person,’Hokan: Chumash
s-mano
∼
¬
-mano
‘man’; Chibchan-Paezan: Ayoman
ayoman
‘husband,’ Warrau
moana
‘people’; Andean: Iquito
komano
‘fa-ther,’ Yahgan
imun-
‘father,’
yamana
‘person’; Macro-Tucanoan: Yahuna
meni
‘boy,’
maneh˜e
‘husband,’ Yupua
manape
‹
,
Yuyuka
yemane,
Coto
¨omuna
‘man,’ Proto-Nambikwara
*m
¯˜
ın
‘father,’ Kaliana
m˜ın˜ o
‘man, per-son,’
imone
‘father-in-law,’ Wanana
meno
‘man,’
manino
‘her husband,’Waikina
emeno
‘man’; Equatorial: Guahibo
amona
‘husband,’
itsa-mone
‘person,’ Callahuaya
mana,
Achual
aiˇsman
‘man,’ Marawan
maki-b-mani
‘boy,’ Chamicuro
θ
amoni
‘my father,’ Manao
re-manao
‘person,’ Proto-

312
14. Global Etymologies
Tupi
*men
‘husband,’ Guarani
mena,
Guajajara
man
; Macro-Carib: Api-aca
moni
‘boy,’ Ocaina
moon
‘father,’ Paravithana
mei-moen
‘son,’ Mi-ranya
itse-meni
; Macro-Panoan: Moseten
moinˇci
‘person,’ Charrua
ito- jman
‘boy,’ Guana
emmanabie
‘man’; Macro-Ge: Cayapo
m¨an
‘person,’
mi¨an
‘husband,’ Chicriaba
aimaman
‘boy,’
mama
Ñ
‘father,’ Coroado
kuoy-man
‘man.’ [
AM 154, AMN

[Daud Deden]

Despite the similar sounds, I see no link between xyua- and Chinese xiâo- small.
From language log:

小乘, the Chinese equivalents of Mahāyāna and Hīnayāna, respectively as dàchéng and xiǎochéng. But that didn't make sense to me, since Mahayana means "Great Vehicle" and Hīnayāna means "Small Vehicle"
I'm I am familiar with the character for big, Da, as being part of Dawei/David.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Wed, 2 Nov 2022 20:05:30 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>Despite the similar sounds, I see no link between xyua- and Chinese xiâo- small.

Aha, so your "xyua" is actually a shwa, a neutral vowel! Cause if ye
pronounce it after the rules for PinYin Chinese, that's about what you
get, shywah, shewa, shwa.

[Daud Deden]

In Paleo-etymology, such details can help or hurt the search. Some sound evolution is expected, perfect matching sounds are rare. Schwa is just one, I don't know its history.
Xiâo = small
Xyua is possibly related to 'scale', as xyua(mbu)atla, as scand = cant.ilever.
Usually xyua ~ open(ing), thru. Perhaps an open mouth making a neutral vowel sound?
Xyua co(ver) cheye(nne) shi(loh) sky(over) ciel ...

[Daud Deden]

coherent (adj.) [Cf adhere]
1550s, "harmonious;" 1570s, "sticking together," also "connected, consistent" (of speech, thought, etc.), from French cohérent (16c.), from Latin cohaerentem (nominative cohaerens), present participle of cohaerere "cohere," from assimilated form of com "together" (see co-) + haerere "to adhere, stick" (see hesitation).


Entries linking to coherent
co-
in Latin, the form of com- "together, with" in compounds with stems beginning in vowels, h-, and gn-; see com-. Taken in English from 17c. as a living prefix meaning "together, mutually, in common," and used promiscuously with native words (co-worker) and Latin-derived words not beginning with vowels (codependent), including some already having it (co-conspirator).

hesitation (n.)
c. 1400, from Old French hesitacion or directly from Latin haesitationem (nominative haesitatio) "a hesitation, stammering," figuratively "irresolution, uncertainty," noun of action from past participle stem of haesitare "stick fast, remain fixed; stammer in speech," figuratively "hesitate, be irresolute, be at a loss, be undecided," frequentative of haerere (past participle haesus, first person perfect indicative haesi) "to adhere, stick, cling."

This is said by Watkins to be from PIE root *ghais- "to adhere, hesitate" (source also of Lithuanian gaišti "to delay, tarry, be slow"), but some linguists reject the proposed connection; de Vaan offers no etymology.

xua(mb)huatl > co-hais (g lost or silent, h from bh from b) go thru opening (constricted, bottleneck, chokepoint, doorway)

[Ruud Harmsen]

Thu, 3 Nov 2022 04:51:10 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden

<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:17:51 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Wed, 2 Nov 2022 20:05:30 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >Despite the similar sounds, I see no link between xyua- and Chinese xiâo- small.
>> Aha, so your "xyua" is actually a shwa, a neutral vowel! Cause if ye
>> pronounce it after the rules for PinYin Chinese, that's about what you
>> get, shywah, shewa, shwa.
>> --
>> Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
>
>In Paleo-etymology, such details can help or hurt the search. Some sound evolution is expected, perfect matching sounds are rare. Schwa is just one, I don't know its history.
>Xiâo = small
>Xyua is possibly related to 'scale', as xyua(mbu)atla, as scand = cant.ilever.

No, it objectively possibly is not.

>Usually xyua ~ open(ing), thru. Perhaps an open mouth making a neutral vowel sound?

No.

>Xyua co(ver) cheye(nne) shi(loh) sky(over) ciel ...

Incomprehensible.

[Daud Deden]

Ruud, your ignorance always speaks louder than your wisdom.

[Daud Deden]

Wikipedia wrong again: 1. Brachiators have short backs. FALSE! Gibbons and siamangs are the only true brachiators, and they have long backs, legs and achilles tendons, like humans but unlike great apes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brachiation
Currently, researchers classify gibbons and siamangs as the only true brachiators and classify the great apes as modified brachiators.[3]

[Daud Deden]

Wing = yì = ala = kepak

Yi is a genus of scansoriopterygid dinosaurs from the Late Jurassic of China. Its only species, Yi qi (Mandarin pronunciation: [î tɕʰǐ]; from Chinese: 翼; pinyin: yì; lit. 'wing' and 奇; qí; 'strange'), is known from a single fossil specimen of an adult individual found in Middle or Late Jurassic Tiaojishan Formation of Hebei, China, approximately 159 million years ago. It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger, that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also supported by a long, bony strut attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings similar in appearance to those of bats.

Yi
Temporal range:
Middle–Late Jurassic, 164–159 Ma

[Daud Deden]

Go, grade, wend, rate cognate/related to grate grid?

grade (n.) https://www.etymonline.com/word/grade
1510s, "degree of measurement," from French grade "grade, degree" (16c.), from Latin gradus "a step, a pace, gait; a step climbed (on a ladder or stair);" figuratively "a step toward something, a degree of something rising by stages," from gradi (past participle gressus) "to walk, step, go," from PIE root *ghredh- "to walk, go." It replaced Middle English gree "a step, degree in a series," from Old French grei "step," from Latin gradus.

go (v.)
Old English gan "to advance, walk; depart, go away; happen, take place; conquer; observe, practice, exercise," from West Germanic *gaian (source also of Old Saxon, Old Frisian gan, Middle Dutch gaen, Dutch gaan, Old High German gan, German gehen), from PIE root *ghē- "to release, let go; be released" (source also of Sanskrit jihite "goes away,"

A defective verb throughout its recorded history; the Old English past tense was eode, a word of uncertain origin but evidently once a different verb (perhaps connected to Gothic iddja); it was replaced 1400s by went, past tense of wenden "to direct one's way" (see wend). In northern England and Scotland, however, eode tended to be replaced by gaed, a construction based on go.

rate (n.)
early 15c., "estimated value or worth, proportional estimation according to some standard; monetary amount; a proportional part," from Old French rate "price, value" and directly from Medieval Latin rata (pars) "fixed (amount)," from Latin rata "fixed, settled," fem. past participle of reri "to reckon, think" (from PIE root *re- "to reason, count"

grate (n.)
late 14c., "grill for cooking;" early 15c., "iron bars or cagework across a door or window," from Anglo-Latin (mid-14c.), from Old French grate or directly from Medieval Latin grata "a grating, lattice," from Latin cratis "wickerwork

[Daud Deden]

Rete @Ltn : net
late 14c., "open-work metal plate affixed to an astrolabe," from Latin rete "net," a word of uncertain origin, perhaps related to Lithuanian rėtis "sieve" from (xyuamb)UATLA? Cf grate, gate

Integrate In.tact, Un.touched whole Cf sum/xyuambua/combo, cumulate; *tag ~ tek, textile, web-woven basket
1630s, "to render (something) whole, bring together the parts of," from Latin integratus, past participle of integrare "make whole," from integer "whole, complete," figuratively, "untainted, upright," literally "untouched," from in- "not" (see in- (1)) + root of tangere "to touch," from PIE root *tag- "to touch, handle

[Daud Deden]

Seems highly likely that g(r)a(d/t)e links to in.gather (collect) and ingat @Mly : recollect; a constrictable flow ~ sieve, shower/lluvia/flow.er-flou.r.

clade (n.)
"group of organisms evolved from a common ancestor," 1957, from Greek klados "young branch, offshoot of a plant, shoot broken off," from PIE *kele-, possibly from root *kel- "to strike, cut".

[Ross Clark]

On 5/11/2022 6:14 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> Wing = yì = ala = kepak
>
> Yi is a genus of scansoriopterygid dinosaurs from the Late Jurassic of China. Its only species, Yi qi (Mandarin pronunciation: [î tɕʰǐ]; from Chinese: 翼; pinyin: yì; lit. 'wing' and 奇; qí; 'strange'), is known from a single fossil specimen of an adult individual found in Middle or Late Jurassic Tiaojishan Formation of Hebei, China, approximately 159 million years ago.

"Found" here is hesitating between the two meanings of "is found"
(occurs) and "was found" (was discovered). I was anticipating a date of
discovery, but the time phrase at the end disabused me. (Actual date of
discovery early 2000's if I read Wiki aright.)
Also I would put a "the" before "Middle".

It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other
scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger,
that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made
of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also supported by a long, bony strut
attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane
is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings
similar in appearance to those of bats.
>
> Yi
> Temporal range:
> Middle–Late Jurassic, 164–159 Ma
>

But the real Fun Fact is:

"Yi is notable for having the shortest generic name of any dinosaur,
containing only two letters. Its binomial name, Yi qi, is also the
shortest possible under articles 11.8.1 and 11.9.1 of the International
Code of Zoological Nomenclature, at four letters. (It shares this
distinction with the great evening bat Ia io.)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)

[Daud Deden]

Clade/klados: shoot broken off of treestem => graft (botanical), stylus

Gradus grade graft

The original “graft” appeared in English in the late fifteenth century in the botanical sense—“To insert (a shoot from one tree) as a graft,” the OED says. In the mid-nineteenth century, “graft” was used to mean hard work, possibly from an earlier meaning as the “depth of earth that may be thrown up at once with a spade,” the OED says. A person doing a “graft” is a “grafter.”

Cf Skin graft -lyse cut? Glyc glaze glacial?

Etymology 1Edit

From Middle English graffe, from Old French greffe (“stylus”), from Latin graphium (“stylus”), from Ancient Greek γραφείον (grapheíon), from γράφειν (gráphein, “to write”); probably akin to English carve. So named from the resemblance of a scion or shoot to a pointed pencil

Cf trellis lattice ladder stepladder grafted (adhered) stick to another plant's stem (corrupting); possibly linked graf.t glue/glut/clod/clot/cloth, clods of sod & soil (bunchgrass & bound dirt) were the first bricks, layered around a hearth or as a round wall base of a hut, sunbaked or fireburnt til hard as rock.

an extension from Etymology 1, shifting from “a shoot or scion” to the notion of corruption through the idea of excrescence

[Daud Deden]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 4:23:12 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 5/11/2022 6:14 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > Wing = yì = ala = kepak
> >
> > Yi is a genus of scansoriopterygid dinosaurs from the Late Jurassic of China. Its only species, Yi qi (Mandarin pronunciation: [î tɕʰǐ]; from Chinese: 翼; pinyin: yì; lit. 'wing' and 奇; qí; 'strange'), is known from a single fossil specimen of an adult individual found in Middle or Late Jurassic Tiaojishan Formation of Hebei, China, approximately 159 million years ago.
> "Found" here is hesitating between the two meanings of "is found"
> (occurs) and "was found" (was discovered). I was anticipating a date of
> discovery, but the time phrase at the end disabused me. (Actual date of
> discovery early 2000's if I read Wiki aright.)
> Also I would put a "the" before "Middle".

Many articles about Chinese paleontology & paleoanthropology have slightly odd wording, often a mix of eastern and western "English" and also mixed with both scientese and pop culture terms. Fossil was found in a geologic layer dating to 159ma.

> It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other
> scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger,
> that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made
> of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also supported by a long, bony strut
> attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane
> is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings
> similar in appearance to those of bats.
> >
> > Yi
> > Temporal range:
> > Middle–Late Jurassic, 164–159 Ma
> >
> But the real Fun Fact is:
>
> "Yi is notable for having the shortest generic name of any dinosaur,
> containing only two letters. Its binomial name, Yi qi, is also the
> shortest possible under articles 11.8.1 and 11.9.1 of the International
> Code of Zoological Nomenclature, at four letters. (It shares this
> distinction with the great evening bat Ia io.)"
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)

Thanks, I pasted from sci.bio.paleontology group post on the 4 types of flying animals insects, pterosaurs, bats birds and this additional 5th type, the Yi qi.

https://groups.google.com/g/sci.bio.paleontology/c/5vUUrZETfzU
The last post there, as of today, by Peter N. was my source.
I'm actually surprised that of all the scientific names for dinosaurs, there isn't a single letter as a name. Imaginatively, T. x.

[Daud Deden]

rapport (n.) to carry something back, to return eg. news, report; to bring forth back again

1660s, "reference, relation, relationship," from French rapport "bearing, yield, produce; harmony, agreement, intercourse," back-formation from rapporter "bring back; refer to," from re- "again" (see re-) + apporter "to bring," from Latin apportare "to bring," from ad "to" (see ad-) + portare "to carry" (from PIE root *per- (2) "to lead, pass over"). The Old French noun was report "pronouncement, judgment," from reporter "to tell, relate".

*per- (1) forward, first, press through
Proto-Indo-European root forming prepositions, etc., meaning "forward," and, by extension, "in front of, before, first, chief, toward, near, against," etc.

*per- (2)

Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to lead, pass over." A verbal root associated with *per- (1), which forms prepositions and preverbs with the basic meaning "forward, through; in front of, before," etc.

*per- (3)

Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to try, risk," an extended sense from root *per- (1) "forward," via the notion of "to lead across, press forward

*per- (4)

Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to strike," an extended sense from root *per- (1) "forward, through

*per- (5)

Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to traffic in, to sell," an extended sense from root *per- (1) "forward, through" via the notion of "to hand over" or "distribute"

[Daud Deden]

lie (v.1)
"speak falsely, tell an untruth for the purpose of misleading," Middle English lien, from Old English legan, ligan, earlier leogan "deceive, belie, betray" (class II strong verb; past tense leag, past participle logen), from Proto-Germanic *leuganan (source also of Old Norse ljuga, Danish lyve, Old Frisian liaga, Old Saxon and Old High German liogan, German lügen, Gothic liugan), a word of uncertain etymology, with possible cognates in Old Church Slavonic lugati, Russian luigatĭ; not found in Latin, Greek, or Sanskrit.

xyuambuatLAchYAh laya lachya

Bohong @Mly: to lie
Tipu @Mly: to bluff

Doesn't seem linked to bluffing (swelling ~ wombelle, hill)

[Daud Deden]

bluffing (swelling ~ wombelle, hill)

Possibly linked to items covering eg. leaf, lathe, leather which lie over the family or individual; lies cover/hide the truth and shield vulnerability or behavior. Cf tipi hide ~ tipu

[Daud Deden]

Face faze pace phase feasible fee

https://kathleenwcurry.wordpress.com/2019/10/29/easily-confused-words-face-vs-phase/
https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/faze-phase/#:~:text=faze%2F%20phase,%2C%20to%20mean%20%22frighten.%22
https://wikidiff.com/pace/phase

Feasible and Doable
Feasible comes from faire, the French verb meaning “to do.” Doable and feasible therefore originally meant literally the same thing: “capable of being done.” Indeed, doable was formed with -able, the Latin-derived French ending meaning “capable of” combined, in this instance, with do, a word with roots in Old English and one of the most basic and useful of our verbs

https://www.etymonline.com/word/fee
Middle English, representing the merger or mutual influence of two words, one from Old English, one from an Old French form of the same Germanic word, and both ultimately from a PIE root meaning "cattle."

[Daud Deden]

Canaanite script on elephant ivory tusk lice comb, oldest written sentence.

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=57007#more-57007

[Daud Deden]

Har @Sskrt : color of new growth
Jar @ Serb : green spring season "yar", bright burning fury sun
Jahr @Grm: year
Year @ Egl: annum, annual cycle of growth & death
From Middle English yeer, yere, from Old English ġēar (“year”), from Proto-West Germanic *jār, from Proto-Germanic *jērą (“year”), from Proto-Indo-European *yóh₁r̥ (“year, spring”). Wiktionary

gear (West Saxon), ger (Anglian) "year," from Proto-Germanic *jēr "year" (source also of Old Saxon, Old High German jar, Old Norse ar, Danish aar, Old Frisian ger, Dutch jaar, German Jahr, Gothic jer "year"), from PIE *yer-o-, from root *yer- "year, season" (source also of Avestan yare (nominative singular) "year;" Greek hers "year, season, any part of a year," also "any part of a day, hour;" Old Church Slavonic jaru, Bohemian jaro "spring;" Latin hornus "of this year;" Old Persian dušiyaram "famine," literally "bad year"). Probably originally "that which makes [a complete cycle]," and from verbal root *ei- meaning "to do, make."

Hornus @Ltn: of this year ~ horos, Horus @Anc Egypt ~ holy.s? Whole solar cycle/seasonal circuit/wheel rotation (including bird/vogel migrations) ~ gulu @Chn: circle, dome ~ mongolu @Mbuti: dome hut ~ iglu @Inuit: dome hut; coracle cwrwgl @Welsh = qupharigolu kufa kippah teba gophar cover ferry fare !hxaro cup skyphos arigolu kudu @ Indic: basket fish trap kudu @Indonesian: region, province, realm; kudru @Tibet: coracle, chum @Evenk: tipi dome
-

https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/11/archaic-rider.html?m=1

The (ancient Serb) Sun God's name Jarilo (pronounced Yareelo) comes from the root "jar" (yar) meaning: spring, young, green (Life giving warm sun of green spring), but also brightly burning and raging, furious (Life destroying burning sun of yellow summer)...

Interestingly, in Sanskrit, har (cognate of jar, yar) can also mean green and yellow...

It is the Spring/Summer sun that makes plants grow and get green...

[Daud Deden]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 4:23:12 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:

> On 5/11/2022 6:14 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:

Wing = yì = ala = kepak = epapatela

-
Pterosaur from Angola
Epapatela otyikokolo wing lizard
African pterosaur
-likely spent time flying above open-water environments and diving to feed, like gannets and brown pelicans do today," Jacobs said. "Epapatelo otyikokolo was not a small animal, and its wingspan was approximately 4.8 m, or nearly 16 feet."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/11/221109151941.htm

The genus name 'Epapatelo' is the translation of the word from the Angolan Nhaneca dialect meaning "wing," and the species name "otyikokolo" is the translation of 'lizard.' The Nhaneca or Nyaneka people are an Indigenous group from Angola's Namibe Province, the region where the fossils were found

[Daud Deden]

Etymology of Canaan Possibly
Cf kantong, canastros, canal, canoe, channel, kayak, canada, kudu

'Contained (lowland valley)' between Lake Kineroth and Dead Sea

Kn'n, kinaahna, canaan, khanaan, khna

Etymology
The English term Canaan (pronounced /ˈkeɪnən/ since c. AD 1500, due to the Great Vowel Shift) comes from the Hebrew כנען‎ (knʿn), via Greek Χαναάν Khanaan and Latin Canaan. It appears as KUR ki-na-ah-na in the Amarna letters (14th century BC), and knʿn is found on coins from Phoenicia in the last half of the 1st millennium. It first occurs in Greek in the writings of Hecataeus as Khna(Χνᾶ). Scholars connect the name Canaan with knʿn, Kana'an, the general Northwest Semitic name for this region.

The etymology is uncertain. One explanation is that it has an original meaning of "lowlands", from a Semitic root knʿ "to be low, humble, depressed", in contrast with Aram, "highlands". An alternative suggestion derives the term from Hurrian Kinahhu, purportedly referring to the colour purple, so that Canaan and Phoenicia would be synonyms ("Land of Purple"), but it is just as common to assume that Kinahhu was simply the Hurrian rendition of the Semitic knʿn.

Descendants of Canaan

Locations of Canaan's descendants
According to the Table of Nations in Genesis 10 (verses 15–19), Canaan was the ancestor of the tribes who originally occupied the ancient Land of Canaan: all the territory from Sidon or Hamath in the north to Gaza in the southwest and Lasha in the southeast. This territory, known as the Levant, is roughly the areas of modern-day Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, western Jordan, and western Syria.

[Ruud Harmsen via Google Groups <google@rudhar.com>]

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 3:23:38 AM UTC+1, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> Har @Sskrt : color of new growth

Wrong. The Sanskrit cognate of English year is
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/y%C3%B3h%E2%82%81r%CC%A5#Descendants
paryāríṇī, “calving after a year”)

> Jar @ Serb : green spring season "yar", bright burning fury sun
> Jahr @Grm: year
> Year @ Egl: annum, annual cycle of growth & death
> From Middle English yeer, yere, from Old English ġēar (“year”), from Proto-West Germanic *jār, from Proto-Germanic *jērą (“year”), from Proto-Indo-European *yóh₁r̥ (“year, spring”). Wiktionary

So you knew, as you did look it up. Then why not click on from PIE to Sanskrit? Why speculate by superficial similarity, and have it all wrong?

> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/11/archaic-rider.html?m=1
>
> The (ancient Serb) Sun God's name Jarilo (pronounced Yareelo) comes from the root "jar" (yar) meaning: spring, young, green (Life giving warm sun of green spring), but also brightly burning and raging, furious (Life destroying burning sun of yellow summer)...
>
> Interestingly, in Sanskrit, har (cognate of jar, yar) can also mean green and yellow...

But it is unrelated:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BF#Sanskrit

[Daud Deden]

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 12:41:41 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen via Google Groups <goo...@rudhar.com> wrote:
> On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 3:23:38 AM UTC+1, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > Har @Sskrt : color of new growth
> Wrong. The Sanskrit cognate of English year is

Ruud, I did not identify that cognate, I identified the color of spring. You misunderstood.

> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/y%C3%B3h%E2%82%81r%CC%A5#Descendants
> paryāríṇī, “calving after a year”)

I presume par- = parting, parturition.

> > Jar @ Serb : green spring season "yar", bright burning fury sun
> > Jahr @Grm: year
> > Year @ Egl: annum, annual cycle of growth & death
> > From Middle English yeer, yere, from Old English ġēar (“year”), from Proto-West Germanic *jār, from Proto-Germanic *jērą (“year”), from Proto-Indo-European *yóh₁r̥ (“year, spring”). Wiktionary
> So you knew, as you did look it up. Then why not click on from PIE to Sanskrit?

No need, I was matching growth season to greening burning sun (god).

Why speculate by superficial similarity, and have it all wrong?

Again, you misunderstand the connection. Serbian 'jar' meant 'onset of spring', not 'entire year'.

> > https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/11/archaic-rider.html?m=1
> >
> > The (ancient Serb) Sun God's name Jarilo (pronounced Yareelo) comes from the root "jar" (yar) meaning: spring, young, green (Life giving warm sun of green spring), but also brightly burning and raging, furious (Life destroying burning sun of yellow summer)...
> >
> > Interestingly, in Sanskrit, har (cognate of jar, yar) can also mean green and yellow...
> But it is unrelated:
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BF#Sanskrit

What do you mean?

[Ruud Harmsen]

Fri, 11 Nov 2022 05:20:38 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 12:41:41 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen via Google Groups <goo...@rudhar.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 3:23:38 AM UTC+1, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Har @Sskrt : color of new growth
>> Wrong. The Sanskrit cognate of English year is
>
>Ruud, I did not identify that cognate, I identified the color of spring. You misunderstood.
>
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/y%C3%B3h%E2%82%81r%CC%A5#Descendants

>> pary?rí??, “calving after a year”)

>
>I presume par- = parting, parturition.
>
>> > Jar @ Serb : green spring season "yar", bright burning fury sun
>> > Jahr @Grm: year
>> > Year @ Egl: annum, annual cycle of growth & death

>> > From Middle English yeer, yere, from Old English ??ar (“year”), from Proto-West Germanic *j?r, from Proto-Germanic *j?r? (“year”), from Proto-Indo-European *yóh?r? (“year, spring”). Wiktionary

>> So you knew, as you did look it up. Then why not click on from PIE to Sanskrit?
>
>No need, I was matching growth season to greening burning sun (god).
>
>Why speculate by superficial similarity, and have it all wrong?
>
>Again, you misunderstand the connection. Serbian 'jar' meant 'onset of spring', not 'entire year'.
>
>> > https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/11/archaic-rider.html?m=1
>> >
>> > The (ancient Serb) Sun God's name Jarilo (pronounced Yareelo) comes from the root "jar" (yar) meaning: spring, young, green (Life giving warm sun of green spring), but also brightly burning and raging, furious (Life destroying burning sun of yellow summer)...
>> >
>> > Interestingly, in Sanskrit, har (cognate of jar, yar) can also mean green and yellow...
>> But it is unrelated:
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BF#Sanskrit
>
>What do you mean?

I give up. Read again. But it is hopeless.

You chose to enjoy yourself with silly folk etymologies based on
superficial similarities that just cannot hold true, seeing the
timescales and the natural rate of change in languages, as observed in
thousands of cases. You ignore those facts.

Real evidence based on realistic models and facts is available, and
you quote it AND ignore it as you see fit.

I really keeps annoying me. Being stupid and ignorant is not so bad.
Many people are, and they can’t help it. But being KNOWINGLY and
WILLFULLY stupid and ignorant, that annoys me to great end.

[Daud Deden]

So what you are really saying, is that I'm cleverly stupid. Ok, got it. There are a few other people on the internet that think the same. Not news.
This being a Paleo-etymology thread, I request adherence to the primary topic, Paleo-etymology. If your need to insult is so overwhelming, insert 'OT' initially in your response, as a courtesy notice to all present and future readers of an off-topic change in subject matter. Another even better option would be if you write a new thread lambasting my incredible stupidity, and leave Paleo-etymology threads as they are.
Please.

[Daud Deden]

Pissant peasant pheasant pleasant


THE ETYMOLOGY NERD
PISS ANT

The word pismire has experienced a two hundred-fold decrease in usage since its peak in the early 1800s. A very large majority of people today don't even know that it's an archaic word for "ant". And of those who do know, even less are aware of the fact that it's kind of redundant! It's a portmanteau of two words: pyss, meaning "urine" (and, yes, the forebear of modern piss), and mire, ironically also meaning "ant". So an old word for "ant" comes from "piss ant", making the pyss part completely useless. The connection to urine was apparently because of the pee-like smell of anthills. Now, mire comes from Old Norse maurr or myrr, with the same meaning. Then, through Proto-Germanic miuzijo, we can reconstruct it to Proto-Indo-European morwi, yes, still with the same definition. Now we just have to etymologize the word piss! It was a verb before it was a noun (and this transition is a fine instance of anthimeria). This comes from Old French pissier, from Latin pissiare, which also still meant the same thing. Allegedly, this is of imitative origin, meaning that the verb pissiare is supposed to sound like the action of micturition.
AUTHOR
Hello! I'm Adam Aleksic, a senior studying government and linguistics at Harvard University, where I co-founded the Harvard Undergraduate Linguistics Society. In addition to etymology, I also really enjoy trivia, politics, vexillology, geography, board games, conlanging, art history, and law.

pissant (n.)
1660s, "an ant," from first element of pismire (q.v.) + ant. Meaning "contemptible, insignificant person" is from 1903.

peasant (n.)
"rural person of inferior rank or condition," usually engaged in agricultural labor, early 15c., paisaunt, from Anglo-French paisant (early 14c.), Old French paisant, paisent "local inhabitant" (12c., Modern French paysan), earlier paisenc, from pais "country, region" (Modern French pays, from Latin pagus; see pagan) + Frankish suffix -enc "-ing." = Ital paisano?

pheasant (n.)
well-known game bird, long domesticated in Europe, c. 1300 fesaunt (mid-12c. as a surname), from Anglo-French fesaunt, Old French faisan (13c.) "pheasant," from Latin phasianus (Medieval Latin fasianus), from Greek phasianos "a pheasant," literally "Phasian bird," from Phasis, the river flowing into the Black Sea in Colchis, where the birds were said to have been numerous

pleasant (adj.)
late 14c., plesaunte (early 14c. as a surname), "pleasing or acceptable to God;" also "agreeable, desirable; delightful, delicious; satisfying to the mind or senses;" of persons, "charming, gracious," from Old French plaisant "pleasant, pleasing, agreeable" (12c.)

[Daud Deden]

-
Intricate/extricate, integrate/disintegrate

intricate (adj.)
early 15c., from Latin intricatus "entangled," past participle of intricare "to entangle, perplex, embarrass," from in- "in" (from PIE root *en "in") + tricae (plural) "perplexities, hindrances, toys, tricks," a word of uncertain origin (compare extricate).
It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is
rovided by: Sanskrit antara- "interior;" Greek en "in," eis "into," endon "within;" Latin in "in, into," intro "inward," intra "inside, within;" Old Irish in, Welsh yn, Old Church Slavonic on-, Old English in "in, into," inne "within, inside
Mbuti endura interior entry under;
Malay antarabangsa international

Integrate 1630s, "to render (something) whole, bring together the parts of," from Latin integratus, past participle of integrare "make whole," from integer "whole, complete," figuratively, "untainted, upright," literally "untouched," from in- "not" (see in- (1)) + root of tangere "to touch," from PIE root *tag- "to touch, handle"
Latin tangere "to touch," taxare "to touch, assess," tactus "touch," integer "intact, whole, complete, perfect; honest;" Greek tassein "to arrange"

[Daud Deden]

Tortfeasance (legal)
From Anglo-Norman tortfesance, from Old French tort (“a misdeed, a wrong”) + fesance (“act, action, deed”).
via *terkw\spin, turn; & facio\do make

[Daud Deden]

Mrak @Slovenian: dark
Mela Grk dark
Nigra Ltn dark
Mengelap Mly dark
Mongolu Mbuti dome hut (dark inside)

[Daud Deden]

Stoma Pore

stoma (n.)
"orifice, small opening in an animal body," 1680s, Modern Latin, from Greek stoma (genitive stomatos) "mouth; mouthpiece; talk, voice; mouth of a river; any outlet or inlet," from PIE root *stom-en-, denoting various body parts and orifices (source also of Avestan staman- "mouth" (of a dog), Hittite shtamar "mouth," Middle Breton staffn "mouth, jawbone," Cornish stefenic "palate"). Surgical sense is attested from 1937.

pore (n.)
late 14c., "minute opening, small orifice, or perforation" in the earth, a tree, the body of a human, animal, or insect, a bone, etc.," from Old French pore (14c.) and directly from Latin porus "a pore," from Greek poros "a pore," literally "passage, way," from PIE *poro- "passage, journey," suffixed form of PIE root *per- (2) "to lead, pass over."

xyuambuatla stom(b/p)ore(hole) coracle vs oracle vs bore vs pore vs ore vs (st.em/st.om)b(e)ryo firestick, socket/azocatl

[Daud Deden]

Interestingly, estomago/stomach links to Turkish tam(a)g(a)/stamp, and to gate-grate-grid, in the manner of a plate of soft clay punched/stamped with a grid of pores/bores/holes to facio/fashion/make a grill (before metallurgy) where thin flat stones were rare , as seen in primitive ceramic technology videos.

https://youtu.be/uZGFTmK6Yk4 round plate clay grate

https://youtu.be/2gmYRoIEhxo cheese-garlic-ginger grater

[Daud Deden]

Tailor cutter of stone or cloth, but links to grafting of twigs post-Ltn

tailor (n.)
c. 1300, from Anglo-French tailour, Old French tailleor "tailor," also "stone-mason" (13c., Modern French tailleur), literally "a cutter," from tailler "to cut," from Late Latin or old Medieval Latin taliare "to split" (compare Medieval Latin taliator vestium "a cutter of clothes"), from Latin talea "a slender stick, rod, staff; a cutting, twig."


Although historically the tailor is the cutter, in the trade the 'tailor' is the man who sews or makes up what the 'cutter' has shaped. [OED]
The post-Latin sense development would be "piece of a plant cut for grafting," hence a verb, "cut a shoot," then, generally, "to cut." Possible cognates include Sanskrit talah "wine palm," Old Lithuanian talokas "a young girl," Greek talis "a marriageable girl" (for sense, compare slip of a girl, twiggy), Etruscan Tholna, name of the goddess of youth.

Kent. ... You cowardly rascal, nature disclaims in thee; a tailor made thee.
Corn. Thou art a strange fellow: a tailor make a man?
Kent. Ay, a tailor, sir: a stone cutter, or a painter, could not have made him so ill, though they had been but two hours at the trade.
["King Lear"]
One who makes outer garments to order, as opposed to a clothier, who makes them for sale ready-made.

Something odd about these 'graft' words. C.Raft g.r.ate grade

[Daud Deden]

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=57074#more-57074
Zoroastrianism between Iranic and Sinitic
November 18, 2022 @ 4:22 pm · Filed by Victor Mair under Borrowing, Etymology, Historical linguistics, Language and religion

I've always been intrigued by this odd character: 祆. It's got a "spirit; cult" semantophore (radical; classifier) on the left (shì 礻) and a "heaven" phonophore (tiān 天) on the right. Read "xiān", it is customarily translated as "deity; divinity; Heaven" and is thought of as the central figure of Xiānjiào 祆教 ("xian doctrine / religion"). The traditional Chinese explanation of Xiānjiào 祆教 is Bàihuǒjiào 拜火教 ("fire-worshipping doctrine / religion"), which is rendered into English as "Zoroastrianism" or "Mazdaism". According to zdic, Xiān is Ormazda, god of the Zoroastrians; extended to god of the Manicheans.

One of the things about 祆 that puzzled me the most is how to get from the pronunciation of its phonophore, tiān 天 ("heaven; sky"), to its own pronunciation, xiān
-
XYUA.M(buatlachyah) open(ing) Zion Tian Tengeri Tuan(?) Sky Sun Surya Solar(?) Shine Zoroaster(?) Shamash Shaman(?)
There was a sun in the sky before there was a god to make it, or a religion to deify it.

[Daud Deden]

(xy)UAMBUATLA wamba wombelle bowl/bottle (unclosed/unclogged/clot-clod)
I don't know the Mbuti word for opening, doorway.

[Daud Deden]

"Va chier, mon tabarnak" ~ Go shit, asshole.

[Daud Deden]

https://www.answers.com/Q/Is_goosfraba_really_a_word_Eskimos_use_to_calm_their_children_or_was_this_word_completely_made_up_by_the_writers_of_the_movie_Anger_Management

Also

Tochter @ Dut: draftsman
Tochter @ Grm: daughter
Dochter @ Dut: daughter

[Daud Deden]

Conglobe: form globular, ball up
*gel @PIE: make round, ball up, freeze (snowball), glue congeal
From iglu, mongolu: make dome (hut), endu + monGOLu
Cf (men)gelap @ Mly: endarken, mela @ Grk
Gel: semi-solid(ify)
NjambuanGdUALua

[Daud Deden]

Thus enclose, globus, clot, clod, glob, claustr-, cluster are cognates; conceal ~ congeal (endome).

[Daud Deden]

Co- com- comh-
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/%E1%B8%B1%C3%B3m
From XYUA.Mbuatl sum/cum.ulate, apparently an open bowl/bottle; collect into basket( Cf cannister, kantong, canada)

Cf kom @Old Dutch: bowl, cup. Referring to the weaving or potting of a dome, basket or bowl
Cf kam @Dut comb, aligning fibers to weave

[Daud Deden]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 1:21:02 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 1:13:03 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:35:57 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > Go, grade, wend, rate cognate/related to grate grid?
> > >
> > > grade (n.) https://www.etymonline.com/word/grade
> > > 1510s, "degree of measurement," from French grade "grade, degree" (16c.), from Latin gradus "a step, a pace, gait; a step climbed (on a ladder or stair);" figuratively "a step toward something, a degree of something rising by stages," from gradi (past participle gressus) "to walk, step, go," from PIE root *ghredh- "to walk, go." It replaced Middle English gree "a step, degree in a series," from Old French grei "step," from Latin gradus.
> > >
> > > go (v.)
> > > Old English gan "to advance, walk; depart, go away; happen, take place; conquer; observe, practice, exercise," from West Germanic *gaian (source also of Old Saxon, Old Frisian gan, Middle Dutch gaen, Dutch gaan, Old High German gan, German gehen), from PIE root *ghē- "to release, let go; be released" (source also of Sanskrit jihite "goes away,"
> > >
> > > A defective verb throughout its recorded history; the Old English past tense was eode, a word of uncertain origin but evidently once a different verb (perhaps connected to Gothic iddja); it was replaced 1400s by went, past tense of wenden "to direct one's way" (see wend). In northern England and Scotland, however, eode tended to be replaced by gaed, a construction based on go.
> > >
> > > rate (n.)
> > > early 15c., "estimated value or worth, proportional estimation according to some standard; monetary amount; a proportional part," from Old French rate "price, value" and directly from Medieval Latin rata (pars) "fixed (amount)," from Latin rata "fixed, settled," fem. past participle of reri "to reckon, think" (from PIE root *re- "to reason, count"
> > >
> > > grate (n.)
> > > late 14c., "grill for cooking;" early 15c., "iron bars or cagework across a door or window," from Anglo-Latin (mid-14c.), from Old French grate or directly from Medieval Latin grata "a grating, lattice," from Latin cratis "wickerwork
> > Rete @Ltn : net
> > late 14c., "open-work metal plate affixed to an astrolabe," from Latin rete "net," a word of uncertain origin, perhaps related to Lithuanian rėtis "sieve" from (xyuamb)UATLA? Cf grate, gate
> >
> > Integrate In.tact, Un.touched whole Cf sum/xyuambua/combo, cumulate; *tag ~ tek, textile, web-woven basket
> > 1630s, "to render (something) whole, bring together the parts of," from Latin integratus, past participle of integrare "make whole," from integer "whole, complete," figuratively, "untainted, upright," literally "untouched," from in- "not" (see in- (1)) + root of tangere "to touch," from PIE root *tag- "to touch, handle
> Seems highly likely that g(r)a(d/t)e links to in.gather (collect) and ingat @Mly : recollect; a constrictable flow ~ sieve, shower/lluvia/flow.er-flou.r.
>
> clade (n.)
> "group of organisms evolved from a common ancestor," 1957, from Greek klados "young branch, offshoot of a plant, shoot broken off," from PIE *kele-, possibly from root *kel- "to strike, cut".

Grapple ~ pelastr/wrestlin gym@Grk

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=57079#more-57079

[Daud Deden]

Banheiro @Ptg: bathroom, toilet
Banyo @Spn: bathroom
Benjo @Jpn: bathroom
Inodoro @Spn: bathroom, urinal, toilet (odorless)

[Ross Clark]

On 24/11/2022 9:46 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>
> Banheiro @Ptg: bathroom, toilet
> Banyo @Spn: bathroom

Widespread European descendants of Latin balneum (< Greek balaneion) 'bath'.

Do not be confused by the American use of "bathroom" to mean "toilet".

> Benjo @Jpn: bathroom
Benjo (Sino-Japanese) originally means 'convenient place' and refers to
a toilet. (Compare the expression "(public) conveniences" meaning
'toilets' in NZ.)
Nothing to do with a bath (furo).

> Inodoro @Spn: bathroom, urinal, toilet (odorless)

'Odorless' obviously the original meaning here.
Looking this up in my little Sp-Eng dictionary led me to the word
"excusado" -- originally 'private, set apart', but also another word for
'toilet'!

Endlessly fascinating, the world of excretory euphemism.

[Daud Deden]

Grape from Grm grapon hook related to grab grapple grasp crab?
https://www.etymonline.com/word/grape?ref=etymonline_crossreference
That explains why it doesn't sound like berry, ball, wine.
Not linked to grate, grade, graph?

[Daud Deden]

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 7:13:14 PM UTC-5, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 24/11/2022 9:46 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > Banheiro @Ptg: bathroom, toilet
> > Banyo @Spn: bathroom
> Widespread European descendants of Latin balneum (< Greek balaneion) 'bath'.

Thanks, both new to me.

> Do not be confused by the American use of "bathroom" to mean "toilet".

Yes, that seems unique.

> > Benjo @Jpn: bathroom
> Benjo (Sino-Japanese) originally means 'convenient place' and refers to
> a toilet. (Compare the expression "(public) conveniences" meaning
> 'toilets' in NZ.)
> Nothing to do with a bath (furo).

Yes. Similarity coincidental.

> > Inodoro @Spn: bathroom, urinal, toilet (odorless)
> 'Odorless' obviously the original meaning here.
> Looking this up in my little Sp-Eng dictionary led me to the word
> "excusado" -- originally 'private, set apart', but also another word for
> 'toilet'!

I know i've heard others, but banyo is my standard, and benjo in Japan, and tandas in Malaya.

> Endlessly fascinating, the world of excretory euphemism.

Tabooish.

[Daud Deden]

Probably links to crampon, gorge?

cramp (n.1)
"involuntary and painful muscle contraction," late 14c., from Old French crampe (13c.), from a Frankish or other Germanic word (compare Old High German krapmhe "cramp, spasm," related to kramph "bent, crooked"), from Proto-Germanic *kramp-, forming many words for "bent, crooked," including, via French crampon

gorge (n.)
mid-14c., "throat," from Old French gorge "throat; a narrow passage" (12c.), from Late Latin gurges "gullet, throat, jaws," also "gulf, whirlpool," which probably is related to Latin gurgulio "gullet, windpipe," from a reduplicated form of PIE root *gwora- "food, devouring" re-gurgitate

[Daud Deden]

*Gwora sounds suspiciously similar to quaff ~ cup kufa, but might be coincidence.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Wed, 23 Nov 2022 17:00:49 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 7:13:14 PM UTC-5, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
>> On 24/11/2022 9:46 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>>>
>>> Banheiro @Ptg: bathroom, toilet
>>> Banyo @Spn: bathroom

Not Spanish. Baño is. Is banyo Catalan? No, that's bany.

>> Widespread European descendants of Latin balneum (< Greek balaneion) 'bath'.
>Thanks, both new to me.

It's only a few clicks away:
https://google.com/search?q=banho+wiktionary

So banho mean bath, the act of bathing or the act of showering, but
not the place where it happens. That would be banheiro.

[Daud Deden]

So banho means bathe, banheiro means bathing room. Baño, a word I haven't seen written on a door.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Thu, 24 Nov 2022 00:50:37 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden

<daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 2:28:31 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Wed, 23 Nov 2022 17:00:49 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 7:13:14 PM UTC-5, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
>> >> On 24/11/2022 9:46 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Banheiro @Ptg: bathroom, toilet
>> >>> Banyo @Spn: bathroom
>> Not Spanish. Baño is. Is banyo Catalan? No, that's bany.
>> >> Widespread European descendants of Latin balneum (< Greek balaneion) 'bath'.
>> >Thanks, both new to me.
>> It's only a few clicks away:
>> https://google.com/search?q=banho+wiktionary
>>
>> So banho mean bath, the act of bathing or the act of showering, but
>> not the place where it happens. That would be banheiro.
>
>So banho means bathe,

The verb? No, it does not.
https://dicionario.priberam.org/banho

It can mean "I bathe" though, a conjugated form of the verb banhar.

>banheiro means bathing room. Baño, a word I haven't seen written on a door.

[Daud Deden]

Acad edu paper
Who were the first Malagasy, and what did they speak?

Alexander Adelaar
draft, paper presented at Nalanda Institute, University of Singapore, 2 December 2013
887 Views
16 Pages
1 File ▾
Historical Linguistics,
Indian Ocean History,
History of Madagascar
Show more ▾
Paper showing that Malagasy most probably had already become a separate dialect/language before its speakers migrated to East Africa. This would have consequences for the social position in which the migrants found themselves vis-a-vis the Malay political centre in South Borneo. They may have been in a more advanced state of acculturation to that centre than other South East Barito speakers.

Who were the first Malagasy, and what did they speak?

Alexander Adelaar Netherlands Institute for Advanced StudyAsia Institute, niversity of Mel!ourne1"IntroductionMalagasy is an Austronesian language" It is a #e#!er of the South $ast %arito&henceforth S$%' language su!group &see (ree diagra#' and its ho#eland is in South%orneo &)ahl 1*+1 see Map 1'"Map 1 #ay appear so#ewhere here" -aption./Map 1 (he Malagasy ho#eland and location of $ast %arito languages in South %orneo"0It underwent the influence of Malay and avanese, the hege#onic languages parexcellence in insular South $ast Asia &henceforth IS$A', as well as of Sanskrit" In fact,the Sanskrit loanwords in Malagasy can !e shown to have !een !orrowed via Malay andavanese, and not directly fro# a source in South Asia" Malagasy also has loanwordsfro# other Indonesian languages such as Nga2u, which is spoken west of the %arito 3iver&Map 1', and languages fro# South Sulawesi &Map 4'"Map 4 #ay appear so#ewhere here &or further down'" -aption./Map 4 (he Indian 5cean region including $ast Africa, Madagascar and $ast Asia"0(he Malay and avanese loanwords testify to the fact that already at a very early period the Malays and avanese were passing on to other peoples in IS$A Indic culturalinfluences that had !een acculturated to their own local cultures" (his #ust already havehappened on a large scale around the ti#e that ancestors of the present6day Malagasy people !egan to #igrate to $ast Africa, which was possi!ly in the 7
th
century A)
4
, if notearlier &Map 4'" Malay loanwords also ena!le us to see that the ancestors of the Malagasywere in touch with Malays fro# different parts of the archipelago &Su#atra,%an2ar#asin
8
' and that they had !een so for a considera!ly long ti#e, starting fro# !eforethe first #igration&s'
9
to $ast Africa and continuing until after Isla# had !een introducedto the Indonesian archipelago &14
th
century A)?' &Adelaar 4::*'" ;oanwords fro# South
1 My research into the linguistic history of Madagascar is supported !y a )iscovery <rant&)=14:1::8*:' fro# the Australian 3esearch -ouncil" I wrote this paper in the Winter of 4:1864:19 during #ystay as a >ellow6in63esidence at the Netherlands Institute for Advanced Study &Wassenaar, Netherlands'" Iwould like to thank %ernard Sellato &-N3S, Aix6en6=rovence' and (o# oogervorst &3oyal Institute ofSoutheast Asian and -ari!!ean Studies, ;eiden' for their useful co##ents on previous drafts, and -handraayasuriya &cartographer at Mel!ourne niversity' for providing #aps" All