Re: Hurricane Expert Calls Al Gore's Theory "Ridiculous"

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hanson

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Oct 15, 2007, 11:14:38 AM10/15/07
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"tadchem" <tad...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1192409703.6...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
On Oct 14, 8:27 pm, Traveler <trave...@noasskissers.net> wrote:
This story was submitted a while ago to Slashdot by DrWho520 but in
spite of its popularity on Slashdot's Firehose, it has yet to make it
to the front page.
>>
http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/gore-gets-a-cold-shoulder/2007...
>>
"ONE of the world's foremost meteorologists has called the theory that
helped Al Gore share the Nobel Peace Prize "ridiculous" and the
product of "people who don't understand how the atmosphere works".
Dr William Gray, a pioneer in the science of seasonal hurricane
forecasts, told a packed lecture hall at the University of North
Carolina that humans were not responsible for the warming of the
earth."
>>
Gray's website:

http://typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu/forecasts/
>>
Slashdot's Firehose:
>>
http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl
>>
Louis Savain
>> ----------
Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
>
>
"tadchem" <tad...@comcast.net> wrote
Steven Milloy is tracking the progress of the "Global Warming" fraud
(among others) in excruciating detail at:
http://www.junkscience.com/
>
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
>
adding new NGs
>

Message has been deleted

Tunderbar

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Oct 15, 2007, 3:07:28 PM10/15/07
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On Oct 15, 12:17 pm, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
> hanson wrote:
> > Dr William Gray
>
> Senile Emeritus Crackpot.

Hey kT, do you have any real evidence that the fellow is either senile
or a crackpot or are you just slinging mud out of frustration that a
real honest-to-goodness highly-respected-in-his-field climate
scientist is exercising his right to free speech and clearly shows
that Gore is a putz and an unscientific loser?

hanson

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Oct 15, 2007, 3:52:06 PM10/15/07
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Thomas Elifritz aka "kT" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in
message news:2vLQi.27$SQ2...@newsfe12.lga...
>
hanson cited from a post:
Dr William Gray
>
Thomas Elifritz said:
Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
>
[hanson]
ahahaha.. just like you, Thomas, huh.
Only Gray sounds still rational, unlike you who doesn't... ahahaha...
>

------- original post ----------

Bill Habr

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Oct 15, 2007, 4:53:54 PM10/15/07
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"kT" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in message news:2vLQi.27$SQ2...@newsfe12.lga...
> hanson wrote:
>
> > Dr William Gray
>
> Senile Emeritus Crackpot.


You really should try to make a case that Gray is wrong otherwise it is you, "kT", that
looks like a Crackpot.


Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

davee

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Oct 15, 2007, 5:59:57 PM10/15/07
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On Oct 16, 11:25 am, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:

> Tunderbar wrote:
> > On Oct 15, 12:17 pm, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
> >> hanson wrote:
> >>> Dr William Gray
> >> Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
>
> > Hey kT
>
> Oh look, another nut. This one gets paid to sell nuts.

I am particularly fond of almonds and are apparently are a hunger
suspressant, good for those long hours feeding my
google group addiction.

hanson

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Oct 15, 2007, 7:04:19 PM10/15/07
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ahahaha... Thomas Elifritz aka "kT" <cos...@lifeform.org>
now he shows himself off as a class 3 enviro as he wrote in

message news:2vLQi.27$SQ2...@newsfe12.lga...
>
hanson cited from a post:
Dr William Gray
>
Thomas Elifritz said:
Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
>
[hanson]
ahahaha.. just like you, Thomas, huh.
Only Gray sounds still rational, unlike you who doesn't... ahahaha...
>
Thomas Elifritz said:
Oh look. A nut, defending a nut.
Oh my, the squirrels are busy this year.
>
[hanson]
.... ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... Now, now Thomas, your
2-liner above does sound severely senile and globally
warmed under your collar... doesn't it. ... Is your sorry
condition due to **environmental** factors? ... ahahaha...
What are you going to do about it, Thomas?... ahahaha..
ahahahaha... ahahahanson
Message has been deleted

kwag...@hotmail.com

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Oct 15, 2007, 9:08:22 PM10/15/07
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On Oct 15, 1:17 pm, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
> hanson wrote:
> > Dr William Gray
>
> Senile Emeritus Crackpot.

A 'has been' to your 'will never be'? Why do you spew these lame ad
homina when your own credentials are a piss up a rope by comparison?

kwag...@hotmail.com

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Oct 15, 2007, 9:09:59 PM10/15/07
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On Oct 15, 9:12 pm, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
> hanson wrote:
> > Dr William Gray
> > Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
> > Oh look. A nut, defending a nut.
> > Oh my, the squirrels are busy this year.
> > Now, now Thomas, your 2-liner above does sound
>
> immortal, doesn't it? Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
>
> I do believe I have immortalized that phrase by now.

Yes, you've beaten it to death so soundly it has achieved unlife.


Message has been deleted

Tunderbar

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Oct 15, 2007, 10:20:42 PM10/15/07
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On Oct 15, 6:25 pm, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
> Tunderbar wrote:
> > On Oct 15, 12:17 pm, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
> >> hanson wrote:
> >>> Dr William Gray
> >> Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
>
> > Hey kT
>
> Oh look, another nut. This one gets paid to sell nuts.

Didn't think so. Nutbar.

hanson

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Oct 16, 2007, 1:21:38 AM10/16/07
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ahahaha... Thomas Elifritz lables himself as "The Senile Emeritus Crackpot"

aka "kT" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in message
news:dtSQi.28$Qz4...@newsfe04.lga...


Bill Habr

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Oct 16, 2007, 12:08:05 PM10/16/07
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"kT" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in message news:uQQQi.24$lu...@newsfe02.lga...
> Now why the fuck would I care what a senile emeritus crackpot thinks of
> next year's hurricane season? I am intimately familiar with the basin.
>
> Think : five days. That's plenty of time if you're prepared.


You don't care what someone says just how many names you can call him/her/it. That is the
way of the troll.


Message has been deleted

Lloyd

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Oct 16, 2007, 3:17:57 PM10/16/07
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On Oct 15, 4:53 pm, "Bill Habr" <billh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "kT" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in messagenews:2vLQi.27$SQ2...@newsfe12.lga...

> > hanson wrote:
>
> > > Dr William Gray
>
> > Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
>
> You really should try to make a case that Gray is wrong otherwise it is you, "kT", that
> looks like a Crackpot.

He's as much a crackpot as someone who claims the earth is 6000 years
old and the center of the universe. That you cannot see it makes you
just plain dumb.

Bill Habr

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Oct 16, 2007, 6:03:05 PM10/16/07
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"Lloyd" <lpa...@emory.edu> wrote in message
news:1192562277.4...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

Well, if he were you would argue against what he said. That you didn't means that you
can't.


HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 16, 2007, 9:12:14 PM10/16/07
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"Bill Habr" <bill...@sbcglobal.net> wrote

> You really should try to make a case that Gray is wrong

How many hurricanes did the old coot predict this year? 12? How many were
there? 4

Ahahahahahahaha....


Bawana

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Oct 16, 2007, 9:49:07 PM10/16/07
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On Oct 15, 9:23 pm, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
> I only applied the the brand spanking new BCS-BOSE theory to chemistry,
> and discovered something, before the BCS-BOSE theory was fashionable,
> before the demonstration of Atomic Bose-Einstein Condensation (BEC),
> before the demonstration of Feshbach resonances in BECs, and before the
> confirmation of the BCS-BOSE model as a definitive theory of nature.

Prove it, kunT.

And

How did you become a nut-job internet troll?

Inhaling glue from your space models?

Phil.

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Oct 16, 2007, 10:03:04 PM10/16/07
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On Oct 16, 6:03 pm, "Bill Habr" <billh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Lloyd" <lpar...@emory.edu> wrote in message

Well his assertion that the failure of the number of US landfalling
hurricanes to correlate with 'global' temperature is somehow
meaningful is unsupported by any evidence. A Poisson analysis
indicates that the difference he points out isn't statistically
significant.

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 16, 2007, 10:41:05 PM10/16/07
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<kwag...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> > Dr William Gray

How many hurricanes did he predict for this year? 12? How many were
there? 4?

Ahahahahah.. Ya, I'm going to listen to that Loser.

tadchem

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Oct 17, 2007, 10:12:55 AM10/17/07
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On Oct 16, 10:41 pm, "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"
<Just...@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:
> <kwag7...@hotmail.com> wrote

The AGW crowd said that we would be having even more and stronger
hurricanes because of global warming. Gore himself blames Hurricane
Katrina on global warming and says things will only get worse.

The sun has recently entered a period of no sunspot activity at all,
prompting an "All Quiet Alert"
http://sidc.oma.be/products/quieta/

Historically, low sunspot activity has been associated with a less
active, cooler sun. The Maunder minimum coincided with the Little Ice
Age.

We appear to be entering a period in which the AGW predictions of a
warmer earth will be empirically tested against the theories of those
who believe that the sun drives the earth's climate.

The difference should be measurable over one single sunspot cycle -
about 11 years. Let's just hope that the world's economies can
withstand the multi-trillion dollar efforts that may be made to act on
AGW theory before it is empirically validated.

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

Message has been deleted

Bill Habr

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Oct 17, 2007, 11:27:51 AM10/17/07
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"Phil." <fel...@princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:1192586584.1...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

Good for you, but that doesn't mean that Lloyd could argue that.


Benj

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Oct 17, 2007, 12:55:42 PM10/17/07
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tadchem wrote:
>
> We appear to be entering a period in which the AGW predictions of a
> warmer earth will be empirically tested against the theories of those
> who believe that the sun drives the earth's climate.
>
> The difference should be measurable over one single sunspot cycle -
> about 11 years. Let's just hope that the world's economies can
> withstand the multi-trillion dollar efforts that may be made to act on
> AGW theory before it is empirically validated.

As if any proof were needed, given that Algore is a AGW major figure,
that AGW is politics and not science, the spending of multi-trillion
dollars on totally unproven theories is IT! I believe that the
argument is that "the sky is falling" so we HAVE to do SOMETHING!!!
Who cares if it makes sense or not? Sort of like bouncing a basketball
to cure cancer.

More proof of politics is the name change from simply "Global Warming"
used instead of the milder "climate change", to AGW where the A stands
for Anthropogenic meaning "man-generated". I believe that is called
"begging the question" where the assumed answer is included right in
the definition.

More political evidence:
FACT: They gave Algore the Nobel prize for saying that CO2 as a
"greenhouse gas" causes global warming.
FACT: There is NO WAY that CO2 could have enough effect to cause AGW.
Even the AGW bunch have backed off and admit that now going with a new
"feedback" theory.
FACT: Rising CO2 levels is from oceans giving off dissolved gasses due
to heating.
FACT: Algore claimed rising CO2 levels CAUSE ocean heating. He
reversed cause and effect.

Bottom line. Algore got the prize for telling lies. However, I don't
wish to take away from the job Gore DID do which was to bring the
problems of Climate Change to the public interest. Various kinds of
pollution are issues that need to be rapidly addressed as well. But
creating public awareness using lies is not such a great idea. We all
remember the story of the boy who cried "Wolf", don't we?

Puppet_Sock

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Oct 17, 2007, 1:28:47 PM10/17/07
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I find it telling that the first thing you reach for is religion.
Socks

mommy...@gmail.com

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Oct 17, 2007, 1:55:28 PM10/17/07
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On Oct 15, 2:07 pm, Tunderbar <tdcom...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 15, 12:17 pm, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
> > hanson wrote:
> > > Dr William Gray
>
> > Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
>
> Hey kT, do you have any real evidence that the fellow is either senile
> or a crackpot or are you just slinging mud out of frustration that a
> real honest-to-goodness highly-respected-in-his-field climate
> scientist is exercising his right to free speech and clearly shows
> that Gore is a putz and an unscientific loser?

Gray is 76 years old and has been retired for a while. His original
claim to fame were seasonal hurricane forecasts which have fallen into
disrepute due to a lack of predictive capability. For years, perhaps
decades, Gray has been ascribing all sorts of climate changes and
hurricane cycles to fluctuations in the Thermohaline Circulation
(THC), an overturning circulation in the Atlantic ocean associated
with formation of deep water in the North Atlantic. None of the
assertions are based on rigorous statistical associations,
oceanographic observations; it is all seat-of -the-pants stuff. The
heart of the problem with Gray's new version of the THC story is that
he labors under the misconception that the THC primarily upwells in
the tropics, so that any reduction in the THC cools the North Atlantic
but warms the tropics. This conception is at least 50 years out of
date. Gray's grand answer to the riddle of global warming is
evaporation, presumably modulated by changes in the THC. Again, Gray
simply doesn't seem to understand energy conservation. Evaporation
does not create heat; it does not add any heat to the climate system
or take it away. It is an energy transfer that moves heat from a moist
surface (like the ocean's) into the atmosphere. That severely
constrains what evaporation changes can do to climate. In contrast,
changes in CO2 concentration affect the top of atmosphere radiation
budget directly, and change the rate at which the whole climate system
loses energy.Because he has been unable to document by rigorous
statistical methods or via ocenaograhic observation any of his
assertions the community at large began to question his theories.
Andrew Dressler a climate scientist at Texas A&M noted

"Bill Gray is [often] excoriated in public, rightfully in my opinion,
because he's essentially accused the entire scientific community of
fraud ... and for no other reason that I can figure out other than he
didn't get the funding he feels he deserves. As a scientist, he knows
that the type of conspiracy theories he's suggesting simply cannot
actually occur. This has led to a real loss of respect within the
community for him."

Translated to terms easily understand he threw a temper tantrum
because he didn't get funded

mommy...@gmail.com

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Oct 17, 2007, 2:34:31 PM10/17/07
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On Oct 15, 2:52 pm, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
> Thomas Elifritz aka "kT" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in
> messagenews:2vLQi.27$SQ2...@newsfe12.lga...
>

> hanson cited from a post:
> Dr William Gray
>
> Thomas Elifritz said:
> Senile Emeritus Crackpot.
>
> [hanson]
>

Gray is 76 years old and has been retired for a while. His original

Translated to terms easily understood he threw a temper tantrum

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 17, 2007, 3:33:27 PM10/17/07
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"Puppet_Sock" <puppe...@hotmail.com> wrote

> I find it telling that the first thing you reach for is religion.

I find it telling that the first thing the Bush Failure reaches for is the
bottle.

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 17, 2007, 3:52:19 PM10/17/07
to

"tadchem" <tad...@comcast.net> wrote

> The AGW crowd said that we would be having even more and stronger
> hurricanes because of global warming.

And we are.

"tadchem" <tad...@comcast.net> wrote


> Gore himself blames Hurricane Katrina on global warming and says things
> will only get worse.

Nope. You are lying.

Gore used Katrina as an example of what stronger hurricanes are like. He
did not claim (contrary to the RepubliKKKan lie) that Katrina was caused by
global warming.

> The sun has recently entered a period of no sunspot activity at all,
> prompting an "All Quiet Alert"
> http://sidc.oma.be/products/quieta/
>
> Historically, low sunspot activity has been associated with a less
> active, cooler sun. The Maunder minimum coincided with the Little Ice
> Age.

And global tempertures continue to rise.

So much for your linkage between sunspots and contemporary global
temperatures.

1998 14.57 *********************o*****
1999 14.33 *****************>>>>o
2000 14.33 *****************>>>>>o
2001 14.48 ************************o
2002 14.56 *************************o**
2003 14.55 **************************o*
2004 14.49 *************************>>o
2005 14.63 *****************************o**
2006 14.54 ***************************>>>o

Look at all those "o"'s lined up there. The trend is up, Up, UP.


HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 17, 2007, 4:23:19 PM10/17/07
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NASA finds evidence of widespread Antarctic melting
Last Updated: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 | 10:04 AM ET

Rising temperatures two years ago led to widespread melting of snow cover in
west Antarctica, according to scientists examining the impact of global
warming on the icy continent.

The melting of snow cover in regions in January 2005 was the most
significant Antarctic melting seen since satellites began observing the
continent three decades ago, NASA said Tuesday.

NASA's QuikScat satellite detected extensive areas of snowmelt, shown in
yellow and red, in west Antarctica in January 2005.
(NASA/JPL) It was also the first major melting detected using NASA's
QuikScat satellite, which can measure both accumulated snowfall and
temperatures in various regions.

The team of scientists found evidence of melting in regions not normally
affected: up to 900 kilometres inland from the open ocean, farther than 85
degrees south (within 500 kilometres of the South Pole) and higher than
2,000 metres above sea level.

QuikScat found maximum air temperatures at the time of melting were
unusually high, reaching more than 5 C in one of the areas. These maximum
temperatures remained above the melting point for approximately a week.

The researchers were led by Son Nghiem of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory
and Konrad Steffen, the director of the Co-operative Institute for Research
in Environmental Sciences at the University of Colorado. They published
their results in a book, Dynamic Planet.

"Antarctica has shown little to no warming in the recent past, with the
exception of the Antarctic Peninsula, but now large regions are showing the
first signs of the impacts of warming as interpreted by this satellite
analysis," said Steffen in a statement.

"Increases in snowmelt, such as this in 2005, definitely could have an
impact on larger-scale melting of Antarctica's ice sheets if they were
severe or sustained over time."

The 2005 melt was extensive enough to create a layer of ice when the water
refroze, but was not long enough for the water to flow to the sea. Steffen
said if enough water from melted snow is created, it could slip through the
cracks of the continent's ice sheets and potentially affect their movement.

The Antarctic ice mass is the Earth's largest freshwater reserve, and
changes in its condition can have an impact on sea levels, ocean salinity
and water currents.

"We need to know what's coming in and going out of the ice sheets," said
Ngheim.

"QuikScat data, combined with data from NASA's IceSat and Gravity Recovery
and Climate Experiment satellites, along with aircraft and ground
measurements, all contribute to more accurate estimates of how the polar ice
sheets are changing."


HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 17, 2007, 4:23:32 PM10/17/07
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HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 17, 2007, 4:23:47 PM10/17/07
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HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 17, 2007, 4:24:30 PM10/17/07
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hanson

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Oct 17, 2007, 4:40:38 PM10/17/07
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<mommy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192646071.6...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
hanson cited in this link a post form
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/a3550db59b8a609f
"tadchem" <tadc...@comcast.net> who wrote about Dr William Gray....
>>
[mommy caller]
Gray is 76 years old and ... he threw a temper tantrum
because he didn't get funded....
>
[hanson]
... "to throw temper tantrums to get funded" ....
Well, that is what environmentalism is all about.
So, in their typical green greed some green
shits wanna deny William Gray that same right.
So, typical... ... Right?... ahahaha.... Listen...

** Environmentalism is for $$$$$$$, the environment is the come-on **
*** Environmentalism "makes the Rich richer and the Poor poorer!" ***

****The GREEN BIBLE & its enviro Theology ***** in this link says that:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/70ed6372eccc32ba

= "It doesn't matter what is true ... it only matters what people
= believe is true. -- Paul Watson, Sea Shepard/ex-Greenpeace, &...
= "A lot of environmental [sci/soc/pol] messages are simply not
= accurate. We use hype." -- Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, UoW, and...
= "If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it
= up on the spot ... for the mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant."
= -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's Guide to Strategy.
= "We make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little
= mention of any doubts we may have [about] being honest."
= -- Stephen Schneider (Stanford prof. who first sought fame as
= a global cooler, but has now hit the big time as a global warmer)
= "It is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presen-
= tations" -- Al Gore, Chairman, Gen. Investment Management Bank.
>
>
Modern, attributal definitions of enviro classifications:
========= enviro Class (1) --- the Green shit(s):
C1 are the ones who advocate, promote, support, legalize,
institute and extort the permit charges, the user fees, the
enviro surtaxes and the CO2/Carbon tax, all reflected in
HIGHER PRICES of goods and services!, ...and being
responsible for much of the OUT-SOURCING!
========= enviro Class (2) -- the Green turd(s):
C2 are the ones who are recipients and beneficiaries from
the lootings of (1), directly or indirectly.
========= enviro Class (3) -- the Little green idiot(s):
C3 are the unpaid, well-meaning ones, in "environmental
groups" who think they do something for the "environment",
when in fact they are only the enablers and facilitators for
(2) who are harvesting the green $$$ that (1) has extorted.

A lot of class 1 & 2 enviros are calling themselves no longer
"environmentalists" but *"conservationists"* now, such as
foundations, corporations, lawyers, celebs, politicians and
RICH fat cats who say that they are "conserving" those
lands for future generations,... really do mean that the "save"
it for future development by their OWN descendants/heirs,
while all the 'non-family" little green idiots do the hard and
dirty work for them & pay now!
Make no mistake, Greenism crosses all political party lines.
Some of the biggest class 2 enviros are from the far Right
>
Now go, you little green idiots and enjoy your AGW & enviro
fanaticism and make some rich green bastards even richer
ahahahaha... Thanks for the laughs, you fools!... ahahaha...
ahahaha... ahahahanson
>

-------- The 40 year old scheme of the Green Scam ----------

=1= In June 05 USDA/FDA aired/published that they will
no longer endorse green products that are labeled "organic"!
=2= The FBI and Homeland Security/DHS has declared
enviros to be the number one terrorist threat to the nation.
=3= Myriads of good, rational & HARD WORKING folks had
enough from environmentalism and began to raise their voices
as did E. Gisin in news:d8j4d...@enews1.newsguy.com...
wherein it sounds like this: "Fucking greens should be shot...."

...and as an encore do never forget that

= Pure politics is driving dozens of public health issues, notably
= global warming, green shit, tobacco & meds now. Great lies
= in service for/of a "noble cause" do trump now truth & fact.
=
= Enviros use the same great lies of yore. Only the color changed.
= (A) Environmentalism is Communism in Green...
= (B) Environmentalism is Nazism in Green...
= (C) Environmentalism makes the Poor poorer and the Rich richer.

Environmentalism is nothing but green pornography,
pimped by green orgs like NRDC, Sierra club, Green Piss, etc.,
whored and hookered by green bureaucrats from EPA down,
johned, pole- and lapdanced by the hordes of little green idiots
and paid for by extorting the money from hardworking taxpayers.

Environmentalism is a malignant, parasitic socio-pathology,
promulgated by opportunistic ex-communists and misogynic,
unemployable perverts, who have succeeded in generating
enviro taxes, permit fees and user surcharges, from which these
useless, enviro-pushers and eco-fanatics draw their welfare checks
and demand grants to generate more enviro shit.

ahahahaha... BTW, do copy and use these above clarifications
often and profusely. There is no permit charge or user fee
associated with it. and nobody will accuse you of plagiarism.
It's a free public service announcement... Use it. Have fun!
ahahahaha... ahahahanson


HangEveryRepubliKKKan

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Oct 17, 2007, 5:00:56 PM10/17/07
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Soot Sped Up Arctic Ice Melt, Study Says
Dating Back To 1850, Residue From Forest Fires Darkened Snow Caused
Increased Absorption Of Sunlight

The researchers analyzed black carbon levels in ice from Greenland, covering
the last 215 years. They found that the older soot samples contained
vanillic acid, an indicator of burning conifer trees. (AP / file)

(AP) Around the middle of the 19th century the Arctic took a sooty turn for
the worse, according to researchers studying how humans have affected the
climate.

Soot can darken the snow, causing it to absorb sunlight, warm up and melt.
That, in turn, can add to local climate warming by exposing darker ground
which absorbs energy from the sun that the white snow would have reflected.

Ice cores from before about 1850 show most soot came from forest fires. But
since then, black soot in the snow has increased several times over and most
now comes from industrial activities, according to a paper in Thursday's
online edition of the journal Science.

In a separate paper in that journal, a team of British researchers forecast
that climate warming will slow for about a decade, then bound back to
record-setting temperatures.

That group added new detail to improve the accuracy of complex computer
models that calculate changes in weather and climate to come up with their
new outlook.

The soot study was done by a team led by Joseph R. McConnell of the Desert
Research Institute in Reno, Nevada.

The researchers analyzed black carbon levels in ice from Greenland, covering
the last 215 years.

They found that the older soot samples contained vanillic acid, an indicator
of burning conifer trees.

In the more recent years the soot was seven times more common and contained
a larger concentration of non-ocean sulfur, an indicator of industrial
emissions.

Soot concentrations peaked in 1906-1910 and remained high for decades.
Sulfur emissions declined following the Clean Air Act in 1970, they noted.

In the early 20th century the Arctic warmed more than anywhere else on
Earth, Richard B. Alley of the California Institute of Technology observes
in a commentary on the report, noting a "broad correspondence between the
soot peak and the observed warming."

Doug M. Smith and colleagues at the British Meteorological Office produced
the improved climate model.

They added the effects of natural climate changes, such as the El Nino
phenomenon in the Pacific Ocean, fluctuations in ocean circulation and
anomalies in ocean heat content to their computer models. In general,
climate models have focused on the impact of outside factors such as solar
radiation, atmospheric aerosols and greenhouse gases.

The new outlook calls for a slowdown in warming for the next few years, but
then an increase again.

They forecast that at least half of the years after 2009 will be warmer than
1998, the warmest year to date according to the Met Office. The U.S.
National Climate Data Center ranked 2005 in a virtual tie with 1998.

The arctic soot research was supported by the U.S. National Science
Foundation, the Desert Research Institute, Office of Naval Research and
NASA. The climate forecasters were supported by the United Kingdom
Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the U.K. Government
Meteorological Research Programme.

Traveler

unread,
Oct 17, 2007, 5:02:35 PM10/17/07
to
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:40:38 GMT, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:

>Environmentalism is nothing but green pornography,
>pimped by green orgs like NRDC, Sierra club, Green Piss, etc.,
>whored and hookered by green bureaucrats from EPA down,
>johned, pole- and lapdanced by the hordes of little green idiots
>and paid for by extorting the money from hardworking taxpayers.
>
>Environmentalism is a malignant, parasitic socio-pathology,
>promulgated by opportunistic ex-communists and misogynic,
>unemployable perverts, who have succeeded in generating
>enviro taxes, permit fees and user surcharges, from which these
>useless, enviro-pushers and eco-fanatics draw their welfare checks
>and demand grants to generate more enviro shit.
>
>ahahahaha... BTW, do copy and use these above clarifications
>often and profusely. There is no permit charge or user fee
>associated with it. and nobody will accuse you of plagiarism.
>It's a free public service announcement... Use it. Have fun!
>ahahahaha... ahahahanson

ahahaha... This is funny as hell, Hanson. You do have a way with
insults. Yep, I agree. It's all about making money and controlling
people. Social fascism and classism (we know what's good for you, you
don't). ahahaha...

Louis Savain

Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

unread,
Oct 17, 2007, 6:13:55 PM10/17/07
to

"Benj" <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote

> As if any proof were needed, given that Algore is a AGW major figure,
> that AGW is politics and not science, the spending of multi-trillion
> dollars on totally unproven theories is IT!

Hay Chicken Little... Where do you get this multi-trillion dollar
nonsense?

We have seen your KKKonservative Proclamations of DOOM before. Some of us
here remember the KKKonservative claim tha banning CFC's was going to cost
the global economy 100 trillion dollars and cost the lives of over 1/3rd of
the human race.

Well Chicken Little.. Guess What. CFC's have been banned and there was
no mass death of 1/3rd of humanity and it didn't destroy the Global Economy
and it didn't cost 100 trillion dollars.

Now we see the same KKKonservative Losers making the same Losing
KKKonservative proclaimations of Economic DOOM again.

Ahahahahaha.... You KKKonservatives are a bunch of Pathetic, Lying,
Losers.

kdt...@yahoo.com

unread,
Oct 17, 2007, 9:41:17 PM10/17/07
to

That means that it is a primary part of overall energy in the ocean
and it's temperature. Once the energy is transfered to the atmosphere,
it is released when the water condenses, and this heat rapidly is lost
through the atmosphere into space. Otherwise this energy would remain
in the ocean causing it's temperature to be much higher.

">That severely
'> constrains what evaporation changes can do to climate. In contrast,
'> changes in CO2 concentration affect the top of atmosphere radiation
'> budget directly, and change the rate at which the whole climate
system
'> loses energy.

Bunch of bullshit. If CO2 affects top of the atmosphere radiation
budget, how does it affect ocean temperatures?
There is no actual mechanism that you have for CO2 affecting
temperature of the oceans.

This would only be be increasing the quantity of energy as radiation
that is returned to the surface by the CO2.
But this is theoretical conjecture. This can be disproved by the same
instruments that are used to supposedly analyze the radiation returned
by trace gases.

Water vapor exists in much different concentrations in different
areas, and at different times in the same local. The effect different
water vapor upon atmospheric radiation can be seen with the
instruments. Yet the fact is that a higher dewpoint reduces afternoon
high temperatures. Concentrations of water vapor can change by as much
as 1% of the volume of the air. Yet you cannot demonstrate that this
increase of this gas returns energy to the surface. At lower
altitudes, the effect of nighttime low temperatures being higher with
higher water vapor is not evident.

http://www.climate-zone.com/climate/united-states/arizona/yuma/
http://www.climate-zone.com/climate/united-states/texas/austin/

The importance of these statistics of these two cities which are about
the same elevation and lattitude, is the low temperatures, the high
temperatures and the average relative humidity. Absolutely no evidence
of higher water vapor content returning energy to the surface and
causing higher temperatures.

The effect of reduced cooling of nighttime temperatures is more due to
the effect of water vapor existing in layers of the air and reducing
convective cooling with the surface. This also cannot be demonstrated
to be caused by returned radiation that travels otherwise unhindered
through the O2 and N2 gases.

Water absorbs 40,600 Joules per mol when it evaporates.
The ocean loses more heat by evaporation than by radiation. The ocean
brings the temperature of the air near to it's temperature. This means
that the air is returning near equivelent energy to the ocean and the
net lose of heat from the ocean is very low. The ocean in the tropics
recieves about 1000Wm-2 of solar energy with the sun at less than
30degrees. Without the constant process of evaporative cooling, the
temperature of the ocean would be very much higher. Slight increase of
temperature of the air has a negative effect on ocean temperatures as
it increases rate of evaporation.

A significant role in the ice ages may be the melting polar ice, which
allows much more ocean surface area for evaporation.

KDeatherage
CO2Phobia is a psychological disease.

Whata Fool

unread,
Oct 17, 2007, 9:47:46 PM10/17/07
to
Kd wrote:

>A significant role in the ice ages may be the melting polar ice, which
>allows much more ocean surface area for evaporation.
>KDeatherage

If evaporation is what causes frost on my windshield,
why wouldn't it cause the ocean surface to freeze faster? :-)


Message has been deleted

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

unread,
Oct 18, 2007, 12:19:35 AM10/18/07
to

"Whata Fool" <wh...@fool.ami> wrote

> If evaporation is what causes frost on my windshield,
> why wouldn't it cause the ocean surface to freeze faster? :-)

For the same reason your mashed potatoes don't go green when you put them
in a tinfoil lined box in your microwave oven.

hanson

unread,
Oct 19, 2007, 12:08:16 PM10/19/07
to
...... AHAHAHAHAHA... Good one!... ahahahaha... AHAHA...
"Traveler" <trav...@noasskissers.net> wrote in message
news:b0uch3lll63t7v2ed...@4ax.com...

> ahahaha... This is funny as hell, Hanson. You do have a way with
> insults. Yep, I agree. It's all about making money and controlling
> people. Social fascism and classism (we know what's good
> for you, you don't). ahahaha...
>
> Louis Savain
>
> Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
> http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
>
[hanson]
ahahaha.. What do you mean by insults? There are no insults.
I merely held up a mirror to show the fanatics what deeds they
had performed.
Naturally, it goes without saying that whenever aberrants
and fanatics are confronted with their own shit, of course, they
do feel grievously insulted... as is seen in the E-Dinglerries', in
religious NG zealot's or in enviros' behavior... as is exemplified
by poster....
>
Scott Nudds aka Vendicar Decarian aka GOD aka Scuttle Nutts
who proudly proclaimed that he had "warped and tiny mind in
his brain the size of a planet"... ahaha... and whose current nym
is "HangEveryRepubliKKKan" or "ExterminateAllRepubliKKKans"
<LynchTheBushTriator at AngryMob.com> or
<Justice at ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> ... ... ahahahaha...
>
VD Scotty reminds me of a pinko green E-Dingleberry... in his
poverty stricken fanaticism... ... ahahaha..
>
So, let me post it again for the benefit of VD Scotty's so that he
can Scuttle his Nutts again in his hope for "Death to AmeriKKKa"
to go anarchist first and in the process to destroy the IRS of the
"AmeriKKKan State" which hounds him for the collection of his
past and still unpaid tax bills... ahahahaha.. a situation which VD
Scotty never has denied.... ahahahaha....
>
>
---- [hanson to an earlier poster who called his "mommy"] ----
who said:... "to throw temper tantrums to get funded" ....
hanson: Well, that is what environmentalism is all about.

Environmentalism is nothing but green pornography,

hanson

unread,
Oct 19, 2007, 12:08:18 PM10/19/07
to
ahahahaha... Poster Scott Nudds aka VD Scotty who urges daily to
"HangEveryRepubliKKKan" <Jus...@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com>
now says in his news:TlCOi.5214$9F1....@read1.cgocable.net...
>
> Mass Murder is the RepubliKKKan way of life.
>
[hanson]
... AHAHAHA... ahahaha... Pot/Kettle... ahahaha...
Scotty, this one is just as good as when you posted:
:: VD:: "Where any governance = Excessive governance"
& then a few weeks later you loudly advocated that
:: VD:: "Environmentalism" ... "More [regulation] is needed"...
>
So much for the reasoning and mentation of the "warped &
tiny mind" of Scott Nudds aka Vendicar Decarian, who just
posted an old stale newspaper article because he did not
want to hear the following which is reposted for his benefit:

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

unread,
Oct 20, 2007, 1:24:55 AM10/20/07
to

>> Oh look, another nut. This one gets paid to sell nuts.


"Tunderbar" <tdco...@gmail.com> wrote
> Didn't think so. Nutbar.

Tunderbar comes in two varieties. Plain - Kdthrge and Peanut - Tunderbar.
The Original Tunderbar.


HangEveryRepubliKKKan

unread,
Oct 21, 2007, 3:08:04 PM10/21/07
to

"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote nothing of consequence

Meanwhile, as the Globe continues to warm....

Large Moulins in Greenland causing an Alarm - 2007
http://global-warming.accuweather.com/


A moulin is the name for a giant hole in a glacier in which millions of
gallons of melt water can cascade through to the rocky surface underneath
the glacier during the melt season.

Why am I bringing this up now? Well, on a recent trip to Greenland a group
of scientists and journalists were alarmed at the size and number of these
moulins that they saw on the Greenland ice cap. Some of the moulins in
Greenland run on the scale of Niagra Falls and are helping the glaciers to
move at three times the rate that they did previously.

Scientists say the acceleration of melting and subsequent speeding up of
giant glaciers could be catastrophic in terms of sea level rise and make
previous predictions published this year by the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change (IPCC) far too low, according to the article from AlterNet,
which is a progressive news website.

Professor Robert Correll, chairman of the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment
said that newly invented ice penetrating radar showed that the melt water
was pouring through to the bottom of the glacier creating a melt water lake
500 metres deep causing the glacier "to float on land. "These melt water
rivers are lubricating the glacier, like applying oil to a surface and
causing it to slide into the sea. It is causing a massive acceleration which
could be catastrophic." Correll stated that one particular glacier puts
enough fresh water into the sea in one day to provide drinking water for a
city the size of New York for a year.

Correll believes that the estimates of a 20 to 60 centimeter sea level rise
this century from the IPCC report in February had been "conservative" and
feels that it would be at the upper end of this range at a minimum. Some
scientists fear that number could be 2 metres (200 centimeters), which would
obviously have catastrophic effects for European and U.S. coastlines.

hanson

unread,
Oct 21, 2007, 7:40:57 PM10/21/07
to
> "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote nothing of consequence
... says Poster Scott Nudds aka VD Scotty who urges daily to

"HangEveryRepubliKKKan" <Jus...@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com>
now says in his news:TlCOi.5214$9F1....@read1.cgocable.net...
>
> Mass Murder is the RepubliKKKan way of life.
>
[hanson]
... AHAHAHA... ahahaha... Pot/Kettle... ahahaha...
Scotty, this one is just as good as when you posted:
:: VD:: "Where any governance = Excessive governance"
& then a few weeks later you loudly advocated that
:: VD:: "Environmentalism" ... "More [regulation] is needed"...
>
So much for the reasoning and mentation of the "warped &
tiny mind" of Scott Nudds aka Vendicar Decarian, who just
posted an old stale newspaper article because he did not
want to hear the following which is reposted for his benefit:
>
>
[mommy caller]
Gray is 76 years old and ... he threw a temper tantrum
because he didn't get funded....
>
[hanson]
... "to throw temper tantrums to get funded" ....

kwag...@hotmail.com

unread,
Oct 22, 2007, 5:37:22 PM10/22/07
to
On Oct 17, 10:23 am, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:

> tadchem wrote:
> > The AGW crowd said that we would be having even more and stronger
> > hurricanes because of global warming.
>
> That was in 2005, after two 'hard' years.

That was at the beginning of this and the last hurricane seasons which
produced far fewer storms than expected. Check your facts.

kwag...@hotmail.com

unread,
Oct 22, 2007, 9:00:16 PM10/22/07
to
On Oct 16, 10:41 pm, "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"
<Just...@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:
> <kwag7...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >> > Dr William Gray
>
> How many hurricanes did he predict for this year? 12? How many were
> there? 4?
>
> Ahahahahah.. Ya, I'm going to listen to that Loser.

The season is over?

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

unread,
Oct 23, 2007, 10:50:51 PM10/23/07
to

<kwag...@hotmail.com> wrote

> That was at the beginning of this and the last hurricane seasons which
> produced far fewer storms than expected. Check your facts.

How sad that your denialist Hero William Grey, was so pathetic in his
predictions of the count.

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

unread,
Oct 23, 2007, 10:51:36 PM10/23/07
to

>> How many hurricanes did he predict for this year? 12? How many were
>> there? 4?
>>
>> Ahahahahah.. Ya, I'm going to listen to that Loser.


<kwag...@hotmail.com> wrote
> The season is over?

Did it every really start?

KKKonservative = Liar
KKKonservative = Loser


HangEveryRepubliKKKan

unread,
Oct 24, 2007, 12:40:09 AM10/24/07
to

"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote Nothing of Consequence

Meanwhile as the Globe continues to warm...

HangEveryRepubliKKKan

unread,
Oct 24, 2007, 12:42:51 AM10/24/07
to
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote Absolutely Nothing
Meanwhile as the globe conutines to warm...
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