RSS World Class XI [12th edition] - Vote!

[milivella]

GK
RB
CB/SW [name at least two]
LB
DM
CM
RW/RM
AM/SS
LW/LM
CF

Name, for each position, the player that you are sure will be the best
in the world in a year.

You can only vote a player under his main position according to
www.transfermarkt.com . Below you will find a shortlist of the ten
highest-valued player in each position on Transfermarkt, but you can
vote for players not listed there; just check their main position on
Transfermarkt. If you vote for a player out of position, the vote will
be transferred to the same player in his "official" position.

For each position, you can pick one or more player. You'll give one
point to each in any case.

3 days to vote.

Shortlist
=========

GK
Alisson
Courtois
Donnarumma
Ederson
Maignan
Emi Martinez
Edouard Mendy
Oblak
Pickford
Ramsdale
Simon
ter Stegen

RB
Alexander-Arnold
Calabria
Cancelo
Castagne
Di Lorenzo
Emerson Royal
Hakimi
Reece James
Mukiele
Pavard
Ricardo Pereira
Porro
Semedo
Tomiyasu
Walker
Wan-Bissaka

CB/SW [name at least two]
Alaba
Bastoni
Diego Carlos
Ruben Dias
van Dijk
Gimenez
Lucas Hernandez
Koulibaly
Kounde
Laporte
de Ligt
Maguire
Marquinhos
Militao
Skriniar
Soyuncu
Pau Torres
Tomori
Upamecano
Varane
de Vrij

LB
Chilwell
Davies
Gaya
Guerreiro
Theo Hernandez
Nuno Mendes
Ferlan Mendy
Robertson
Shaw
Tierney

DM
Brozovic
Casemiro
Fabinho
Jorginho
Kante
Kimmich
Ndindi
Neves
Partey
Phillips
Rice
Rodri
Soucek
Tchouameni

CM
Barella
Bellingham
Camavinga
Foden
Goretzka
Frenkie de Jong
Marcos Llorente
Milinkovic-Savic
Pedri
Pogba
Fabian Ruiz
Tielemans
Valverde
Verratti

RW/RM
Asensio
Chiesa
Coman
Gnabry
Greenwood
Lozano
Mahrez
Messi
Pulisic
Raphinha
Rodrygo
Salah
Ferran Torres

AM/SS
De Bruyne
Dybala
Felix
Bruno Fernandes
Griezmann
Havertz
Maddison
Mount
Musiala
Nkunku
Olmo
Bernardo Silva
Wirtz
Zielinski

LW/LM
Grealish
Mane
Neymar
Oyarbazal
Rashford
Sancho
Sane
Son
Sterling
Vinicius Junior

CF
Jonathan David
Gabriel Jesus
Haaland
Kane
Lewandowski
Lukaku
Lautaro Martinez
Mbappe
Osimhen
Richarlison
Vlahovic
Werner

Past editions
=============

April 2011

GK Neuer
RD Bosingwa / Maicon
CD Vidic
CD Alex / Carvalho
LD Cole
DM Busquets
CM Xavi
RAM Cristiano Ronaldo / Messi
CAM van der Vaart
LAM Arshavin / Iniesta / Modric / Oezil
ST Rooney or Tevez

Poll:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/da4c3cabfed764a0/
Results:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/2e51b8cade3f4204/

---

January 2012

GK Neuer
RD Puyol
CD Pique
CD Kompany / Thiago Silva
LD Lahm
DM Busquets
CM Xavi
RAM Messi
CAM Iniesta
LAM Silva
ST Cristiano Ronaldo

Poll:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/d3469c85418120d6/
Results:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/b81e74f03b580578/

---

January 2013

GK Hart
RD Lahm
CD Thiago Silva
CD Pique
LD Alba
DM Busquets
CM Pirlo / Xavi
RAM Goetze
CAM Messi
LAM Cristiano Ronaldo
ST Falcao

If one could clone players:
GK Hart
RD Lahm
CD Thiago Silva
CD Pique
LD Alba
DM Busquets
CM Pirlo / Xavi
* RAM Cristiano Ronaldo / Goetze
CAM Messi
LAM Cristiano Ronaldo
* ST Messi

Poll:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/IoMxsHBSDLY
Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/-HfLOJx5b7M

---

January 2014

GK Neuer
RD Lahm
CD Thiago Silva
CD Kompany / Marquinhos / Pique
LD Alaba
DM Yaya Toure
CM Schweinsteiger
RAM Cavani / Thomas Mueller / Silva
CAM Rooney
LAM Bale / Cristiano Ronaldo
ST Messi / Suarez

If one could clone players:

GK Neuer
RD Lahm
CD Thiago Silva
CD Kompany / Marquinhos / Pique
LD Alaba
DM Yaya Toure
* CM Schweinsteiger / Yaya Toure
* RAM Cavani / Thomas Mueller / Cristiano Ronaldo / Silva
CAM Rooney
LAM Bale / Cristiano Ronaldo
ST Messi or Suarez

Poll: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/f7MMLAiYqMs
Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/iM5KyjH7FBc

---

January 2015

GK Neuer
RD Lahm
CD Boateng
CD Benatia / Marquinhos / Ramos / Varane
LD Alaba
DM Matic
CM Kroos
RAM Di Maria / Robben
CAM James Rodriguez
LAM Bale / Thomas Mueller / Cristiano Ronaldo
ST Messi

Poll: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/e4HnzeR_rRs
Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/K1KY3nz3l8w

Experimental edition:
- Poll: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/ZJs16SC50LE
- Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/8AvyguY0ns8

---

January 2016

GK Neuer
RB Lahm
CD Pique
CD Boateng
LB Alaba
WM Bale
CM Iniesta
WM De Bruyne
FW Messi
FW Suarez
FW Neymar

Poll: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/P5pdR0Uc8yM
Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/o4MWf3MH8kU


---

January 2017

GK de Gea
RB Carvajal
CB/SW Bonucci
CB/SW Ramos
LB Alaba
DM Kante
CM Kroos / Modric
RW/LM Messi
AM/SS De Bruyne
LW/LM Cristiano Ronaldo
CF Suarez

Poll: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/6UWN6ktrqbM
Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/rpcAwSMM32w

---

January 2018

GK de Gea
RB Carvajal / Kimmich
CB/SW Ramos
CB/SW Varane
LB Marcelo
DM Kante
CM Kroos / Modric / Pogba
RW/RM Messi
AM/SS De Bruyne
LW/LM Neymar
CF Cristiano Ronaldo / Kane

Poll: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/RTWgAAq1XYU
Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/8fgIJv6B0Bg

---

January 2019

GK de Gea
RB Kimmich
CB/SW van Dijk
CB/SW Varane
LB Marcelo / Mendy
DM Busquets
CM Kante
RW/RM Messi
AM/SS De Bruyne
LW/LM Hazard / Cristiano Ronaldo
CF Kane

Poll: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/6-4fQUsuu-E
Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/9k-30BqDpfQ

---

February 2020

GK Alisson
RB Alexander-Arnold
CB/SW van Dijk
CB/SW de Ligt
LB Robertson
DM Casemiro
CM Kante
RW/RM Messi
AM/SS De Bruyne
LW/LM Mane
CF Lewandowski

Poll: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/KyXKA0E-Mz8
Results:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.soccer/b-ORao8xhng

---

February 2021

GK Oblak
RB Alexander-Arnold / Reece James
CB/SW Dias
CB/SW van Dijk
LB Robertson
DM Kimmich
CM Gundogan
RW/RM Bernardo Silva / Messi
AM/SS Bruno Fernades
LW/LM Neymar
CF Haaland

Poll: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.soccer/c/6YvNwJlZ44o
Results: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.soccer/c/dLO1Kilz7aI

--
Cheers
milivella

[milivella]

Just to get the ball rolling:

> GK

Edouard Mendy

> RB

Alexander-Arnold

> CB/SW [name at least two]

Ruben Dias, van Dijk, Marquinhos

> LB

Theo Hernandez, Robertson

> DM

Kante, Kimmich

> CM

Pedri, Valverde

> RW/RM

Salah

> AM/SS

De Bruyne

> LW/LM

Vinicius Junior

> CF

Benzema, Haaland, Lewandowski, Mbappe

--
Cheers
milivella

[Blueshirt]

milivella wrote:

> GK
> RB
> CB/SW [name at least two]
> LB
> DM
> CM
> RW/RM
> AM/SS
> LW/LM
> CF
>
> Name, for each position, the player that you are sure will be the
> best in the world in a year.
>
> You can only vote a player under his main position according to
> www.transfermarkt.com . Below you will find a shortlist of the ten
> highest-valued player in each position on Transfermarkt, but you
> can vote for players not listed there; just check their main
> position on Transfermarkt. If you vote for a player out of
> position, the vote will be transferred to the same player in his
> "official" position.
>
> For each position, you can pick one or more player. You'll give one
> point to each in any case.
>
> 3 days to vote.

Okay...

> GK

Edouard Mendy

> RB

Reece James

> CB/SW [name at least two]

Kounde, Laporte

> LB

Robertson

> DM

Kimmich, Rodri

> CM

Foden

> RW/RM

Mo Salah, Pulisic

> AM/SS

De Bruyne

> LW/LM

Vinicius Junior, Sancho

> CF

Haaland, Mbappe

[MH]

On 2022-01-06 17:26, milivella wrote:
> GK
> RB
> CB/SW [name at least two]
> LB
> DM
> CM
> RW/RM
> AM/SS
> LW/LM
> CF
>
> Name, for each position, the player that you are sure will be the best
> in the world in a year.

This is the difficult part for me. "in a year". First of all I think
most people ignore this in their selections. Second, as a scientist, I
can't be "sure" of anything. All my selections could quite easily suffer
devastating injuries, loss of form, deep-seated unresolved emotional
conflicts or whatever. The pressure to conform to a fixed formation and
positions is also a problem - and the way you slice it up here is
probably worse than Kicker's. At least kicker does not fixate on which
side of the field the wide players operate.

With those caveats:

GK: Courtois, Ramsdale
LB: Davies, Tierney
RB: Alexander Arnold, Hakimi
CD: Van Dijk, Ruben Dias, Upamecano
DM: Kimmich, Rodri, Fabinho, Rice
CM: Your short list is awfully unimpressive. Some of the ones listed as
DM would be better than any here. Goretzka I guess. Mount too, though
he is listed elsewhere. Pedri ?
AM/SS : Bernardo Silva, De Bruyne, Nkunku
LW: Neymar, Vinicius Junior
RW: Salah, Chiesa
S: Haaland, Mbappe

>
> You can only vote a player under his main position according to
> www.transfermarkt.com . Below you will find a shortlist of the ten
> highest-valued player in each position on Transfermarkt, but you can
> vote for players not listed there; just check their main position on
> Transfermarkt. If you vote for a player out of position, the vote will
> be transferred to the same player in his "official" position.
>
> For each position, you can pick one or more player. You'll give one
> point to each in any case.
>

> 3 days to vote.of

[Alberto Vella]

GK: Donnarumma

RB: Cancelo
CB/SW: Ruben Dias - Koulibaly
LB: Davies

DM: Jorginho
CM: Barella

RW/RM: Salah
AM/SS: De Bruyne

LW/LM: Sterling

CF: Lewandowski

[Binder Dundat]

As a non Scientist, who does not trust the science -but not like a Fox news guy- my predictions, for whom I think will play goodly in 2022, here are my totally non scientific picks.


GK: Donarumma
LB: Davies
RB: Alexander Arnold
CD: Upamecano
DM: Kimmich
CM: Szoblasi (the hungarian kid who plays for Red bull)
AM/SS : Jao Felix
LW: Wirtz
RW: Chiesa
S: Haaland

SuperSub: Marko Marin

I hope none of them are over 25, but yeah, no reason tothink that guys like Salah, Lewa, Van Diyk etc still wont be the best next year. So my picks are more young stars, I eman who knows, maybe Chouppo Motting has a great season and wins the African Cup and UCL this year and is top scorer in both.

[Jay Kat]

GK - Donnarumma
RB - Hakimi
CB/SW - Koulibaly, de Ligt
LB - Theo Hernandez
DM - Jorginho
CM - Barella, Fabian Ruiz
RW/RM - Chiesa
AM/SS - De Bruyne
LW/LM - Neymar
CF - Haaland

[Al Kamista]

> Donnarumma
> Edouard Mendy

> RB
> Alexander-Arnold
> Cancelo
> Reece James

>
> CB/SW [name at least two]

> Ruben Dias

>
> LB
> Davies

>
> DM
> Casemiro
> Fabinho
> Kante

>
> CM
> Verratti
>
> RW/RM
> Salah
>
> AM/SS
> Bernardo Silva
>
> LW/LM
> Vinicius Junior
>
> CF
> Haaland
> Lewandowski

[Futbolmetrix]

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 2:26:56 AM UTC+2, milivella wrote:

> GK
Donnarumma, Alisson

>
> RB
Alexander-Arnold, Cancelo

> CB/SW [name at least two]

Bastoni, Van Dijk, Marquinhos

> LB
Theo Hernandez

>
> DM
Casemiro, Kante, Rice, Rodri

>
> CM
Pogba

>
> RW/RM

Salah

>
> AM/SS
De Bruyne

>
> LW/LM

Son

>
> CF
Haaland, Lewandowski, Mbappe

The first time in ages that I didn't include either Messi or Ronaldo?

[Werner Pichler]

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 1:26:56 AM UTC+1, milivella wrote:
> GK

Neuer, Alisson

> RB

Alexander-Arnold, Cancelo (11 matches this season)

> CB/SW [name at least two]

Alaba, Ruben Dias, van Dijk

> LB

Davies, Cancelo (17 matches this season)

> DM

Kimmich

> CM

Gündoğan

> RW/RM

Salah

> AM/SS

Foden (slots in better here, doesn't he?)

> LW/LM

Vinícius Júnior

> CF

Lewandowski, Haaland, Mbappé, Benzema

> Name, for each position, the player that you are sure will be the best
> in the world in a year.
>
> You can only vote a player under his main position according to
> www.transfermarkt.com . Below you will find a shortlist of the ten
> highest-valued player in each position on Transfermarkt, but you can
> vote for players not listed there; just check their main position on
> Transfermarkt. If you vote for a player out of position, the vote will
> be transferred to the same player in his "official" position.
>
> For each position, you can pick one or more player. You'll give one
> point to each in any case.
>
> 3 days to vote.

I think you should extend that to one week.


Ciao,
Werner

[milivella]

Following Werner' suggestion (thanks!), the deadline for voting is moved
to January 13, 23:59 GMT.

Il 07/01/2022 01:26, milivella ha scritto:
> GK
> RB
> CB/SW [name at least two]
> LB
> DM
> CM
> RW/RM
> AM/SS
> LW/LM
> CF
>
> Name, for each position, the player that you are sure will be the best
> in the world in a year.
>
> You can only vote a player under his main position according to
> www.transfermarkt.com . Below you will find a shortlist of the ten
> highest-valued player in each position on Transfermarkt, but you can
> vote for players not listed there; just check their main position on
> Transfermarkt. If you vote for a player out of position, the vote will
> be transferred to the same player in his "official" position.
>
> For each position, you can pick one or more player. You'll give one
> point to each in any case.

[milivella]

MH:

> On 2022-01-06 17:26, milivella wrote:
>> GK
>> RB
>> CB/SW [name at least two]
>> LB
>> DM
>> CM
>> RW/RM
>> AM/SS
>> LW/LM
>> CF
>>
>> Name, for each position, the player that you are sure will be the best
>> in the world in a year.
>
> This is the difficult part for me.

I'm replying to each point separately, but there are some general points
that I can put here:
- First of all, thanks for sharing your opinion!
- I was already aware of your doubts/criticisms, and I have already
considered them. I haven't been able to find a better format than the
one I have posted. Of course this doesn't mean that I'm not trying to
improve it further.
- I'd like to see one or more alternative polls based on different
points of view. If people will prefer another poll, I'll happily pass
the "RSS World Class XI" baton to such poll.

> "in a year". First of all I think
> most people ignore this in their selections.

It may be. I'll bold it next time. Let's hope it will be enough.

> Second, as a scientist, I
> can't be "sure" of anything. All my selections could quite easily suffer
> devastating injuries, loss of form, deep-seated unresolved emotional
> conflicts or whatever.

Right. Would changing it to "most sure" be better? I'll change it next year.

> The pressure to conform to a fixed formation and
> positions is also a problem - and the way you slice it up here is
> probably worse than Kicker's.  At least kicker does not fixate on which
> side of the field the wide players operate.

This makes a lot of sense. The only virtue I can find in my method is
that it seems to me the simplest possible method to have a realistic XI.
(Of course I may be wrong and there is a simpler method. Also, in any
case, it all depends on what one means by "realistic".)

--
Cheers
milivella

[Al Kamista]

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:31:08 AM UTC-5, MH wrote:
> On 2022-01-06 17:26, milivella wrote:
> > GK
> > RB
> > CB/SW [name at least two]
> > LB
> > DM
> > CM
> > RW/RM
> > AM/SS
> > LW/LM
> > CF
> >
> > Name, for each position, the player that you are sure will be the best
> > in the world in a year.
> This is the difficult part for me. "in a year". First of all I think
> most people ignore this in their selections.

Indeed. I never noticed that part. I assumed it was for the best player in the last year! Doh.

I'll resubmit.

[Al Kamista]

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 7:26:56 PM UTC-5, milivella wrote:

Updated list. Ignore previous one.

>
> Shortlist
> =========
>
> GK
> Alisson

> Edouard Mendy

>
> RB
> Alexander-Arnold
> Cancelo
> Reece James

>

> CB/SW [name at least two]

> Ruben Dias
> van Dijk

>
> LB
> Davies
> Robertson

>
> DM
> Casemiro
> Fabinho

>
> CM
> Foden (though he's not a CM, but slim pickins in this category)
> Pedri

>
> RW/RM
> Salah

> AM/SS
> De Bruyne

> Bernardo Silva

>
> LW/LM
> Vinicius Junior
>
> CF
> Haaland

> Mbappe

[MH]

Actually I thought the fact that ROnaldo and Messi were not considered
by most to be evidence that people were finally paying attention to this
part.

[MH]

Might help

>
>> Second, as a scientist, I can't be "sure" of anything. All my
>> selections could quite easily suffer devastating injuries, loss of
>> form, deep-seated unresolved emotional conflicts or whatever.
>
> Right. Would changing it to "most sure" be better? I'll change it next
> year.

The player or players who you are most confident that, provided they
stay healthy, will be the best in the world at their position by Jan 1
(Feb 1 ?) 2023.
,

>
>> The pressure to conform to a fixed formation and positions is also a
>> problem - and the way you slice it up here is probably worse than
>> Kicker's.  At least kicker does not fixate on which side of the field
>> the wide players operate.
>
> This makes a lot of sense. The only virtue I can find in my method is
> that it seems to me the simplest possible method to have a realistic XI.
> (Of course I may be wrong and there is a simpler method. Also, in any
> case, it all depends on what one means by "realistic".)

For wingers (whatever those are), they always switch sides enough that
they would be easy enough to fit in on either side which helps in years
where there are many outstanding options who play primarily on the right
for their club, and not so many on the left.

This year, though, Cancelo was only available as RB, when in fact he
plays more often on the left. De Bruyne was only available as AM/SS
when he is equally effective, and often deployed, as a Central
Midfielder (or even a false nine).

Foden is almost never a CM. AM or LW.

I know it is extra work, but I wonder if you asked people to fill out
multiple formations that are in common use, you would not come up with
something interesting

3-4-3

3-5-2

4-4-2

4-3-3

4-3-1-2

4-2-3-1

That should just about cover it.



>
> --
> Cheers
> milivella

[Bruce Scott]

On 2022-01-07, milivella <mili...@gmail.com> wrote:
> GK
> RB
> CB/SW [name at least two]
> LB
> DM
> CM
> RW/RM
> AM/SS
> LW/LM
> CF
>
> Name, for each position, the player that you are sure will be the best
> in the world in a year.

> [...]

Unfortunately, I do not see enough games for this... sorry.

ciao, Bruce

[milivella]

MH:

> The player or players who you are most confident that, provided they
> stay healthy, will be the best in the world at their position by Jan 1
> (Feb 1 ?)  2023.

Thanks, I'll use it. I'll just change "stay healthy" to "are healthy",
because the former wording may seem to exclude currently injured players
(am I wrong?).

> For wingers (whatever those are), they always switch sides enough that
> they would be easy enough to fit in on either side which helps in years
> where there are many outstanding options who play primarily on the right
> for their club, and not so many on the left.
>
> This year, though, Cancelo was only available as RB, when in fact he
> plays more often on the left.   De Bruyne was only available as AM/SS
> when he is equally effective, and often deployed, as a Central
> Midfielder (or even a false nine).
>
> Foden is almost never a CM. AM or LW.

If I'll have time, I'll check if I find a better source for positions
than Transfermarkt.

[Thinking out loud] Transfermarkt has secondary positions, e.g.
- Salah: main RW, other SS, CF
- Vinicius Junior: main LW, other RW
- Cancelo: main RB, other RM LW
- De Bruyne: main AM, other CM
- Foden: main CM, other AM LM
I could use these secondary positions. But how? One way is to have a
ranking of dozens of players, and then putting them in a XI in a way
that maximize the rank of the picked players (of course a player could
only go in one of his positions, main or not).

> I know it is extra work, but I wonder if you asked people to fill out
> multiple formations that are in common use, you would not come up with
> something interesting
>
> 3-4-3
>
> 3-5-2
>
> 4-4-2
>
> 4-3-3
>
> 4-3-1-2
>
> 4-2-3-1
>
> That should just about cover it.

It would be interesting for sure. I like it simpler, though.

We may have a meta-poll about the most preferred poll format.

--
Cheers
milivella