Google Groups to cut off Usenet

[Futbolmetrix]

Now at the top of the page when one opens Google Groups:

"Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical data will still be supported as it is done today."

:-(

[Mark]

I'm not sure I understand what that means. Does it mean that nothing posted from newsreaders will show up on Google groups at all? But stuff from before Feb 15 will still be there? So, from Feb 15, either we've all got to use google groups or we've all got to use newsreaders, otherwise we won't be able to see everybody's messages?

[Blueshirt]

Mark wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I understand what that means. Does it mean that
> nothing posted from newsreaders will show up on Google groups at
> all? But stuff from before Feb 15 will still be there? So, from Feb
> 15, either we've all got to use google groups or we've all got to
> use newsreaders, otherwise we won't be able to see everybody's
> messages?

No, it means if you want to access Usenet you've got to use a proper
news service provider, there will be no Google Groups.

Finally Google have done something sensible. <claps>

[Blueshirt]

Why the sad face? Download a newsreader and sign up to a free nntp
service - I recommend www.eternal-september.org - and you can have a
proper Usenet experience...

It's time for happy faces!!!

[Blueshirt]

Mark wrote:

> On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 2:51:17 AM UTC, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > Now at the top of the page when one opens Google Groups:
> >
> > "Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer
> > support new Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be
> > disallowed, and new content from Usenet peers will not appear.
> > Viewing and searching of historical data will still be supported
> > as it is done today."
>

> I'm not sure I understand what that means. Does it mean that
> nothing posted from newsreaders will show up on Google groups at
> all? But stuff from before Feb 15 will still be there? So, from Feb
> 15, either we've all got to use google groups or we've all got to
> use newsreaders, otherwise we won't be able to see everybody's
> messages?

If you want to continue accessing Usenet, download a free newsreader,
sign up for a free news service... as mentioned, I recommend
www.eternal-september.org - and away you go. If you need help setting
a newsreader up, ask..

Or you can stay on Google Groups and only have access to Google's own
groups... or the Usenet archive pre-February 2024. No fresh content
from Usenet will appear and you won't be able to post to RSS via the
Google Groups interface.

[Werner Pichler]

Well I guess with no web-based client available anymore the chances, already slim, that somebody
new will discover this - or any - newsgroup by chance are virtually nil. The decline has been inexorable
regardless, but this will hasten it. And despite all its shortcomings, using Google Groups was comfortable,
especially with the same account on various devices. I for one will no longer be able to access Usenet
on my work computer without it.

Also, after February Google won't add any new messages to the archives anymore, and there's no
replacement for that, is there?


Ciao,
Werner

[Futbolmetrix]

On 12/15/2023 3:58 AM, Blueshirt wrote:

> Why the sad face? Download a newsreader and sign up to a free nntp
> service - I recommend www.eternal-september.org - and you can have a
> proper Usenet experience...

Do you have any advice on free newsreaders? I'm using
Thunderbird/Eternal September here, but was having trouble installing it
on another computer.

[Blueshirt]

Futbolmetrix wrote:
>
> Do you have any advice on free newsreaders? I'm using
> Thunderbird/Eternal September here, but was having trouble
> installing it on another computer.

Thunderbird is very popular, try a Thunderbird support newsgroup if
you want to stick with that. You should be able to install it on a
second computer.

For other newsreaders...


I am using XanaNews, available here...

https://xananews.software.informer.com/

Microplanet Gravity is available here...

https://sourceforge.net/projects/mpgravity/

Pan can be found here...

http://pan.rebelbase.com/

Microplanet Gravity is probably the best of those three, I only use
XanaNews as I've used it for years (off and on) and it suits my needs
and I don't like change! But they will all do the job.

[Blueshirt]

alt.comp.software.thunderbird

[Futbolmetrix]

On 12/15/2023 5:55 AM, Werner Pichler wrote:

>
> Well I guess with no web-based client available anymore the chances, already slim, that somebody
> new will discover this - or any - newsgroup by chance are virtually nil.

How long has it been since we have had any real new blood in this
newsgroup? Probably more than 5 years...

> The decline has been inexorable
> regardless, but this will hasten it. And despite all its shortcomings, using Google Groups was comfortable,
> especially with the same account on various devices. I for one will no longer be able to access Usenet
> on my work computer without it.

Yep, same here.

> Also, after February Google won't add any new messages to the archives anymore, and there's no
> replacement for that, is there?

:-(

[Binder Dundat]

Going back to newsreaders? What's next? Dial up internet? Wired keyboards? DOS commands?

[The Doctor]

In article <nnd$1210acc8$2b1aecf0@e5f015fc2f454487>,

I.E. GG is admitting incompetence.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nk.ca Ici doc...@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

[The Doctor]

In article <nnd$69f54f32$071fe4bc@06e52b3eed543989>,

Great options!

[The Doctor]

In article <nnd$69f54f32$071fe4bc@2c52aa28dfb49e56>,

busy times!

[Blueshirt]

Binder Dundat wrote:

> Going back to newsreaders? What's next?

Some people don't need to 'go back' anywhere, we've been happily
sailing away on the good ship Usenet and avoiding the rocks caused by
Google spammers! :-)

[Blueshirt]

That's the sad face of ignorance... there are other Usenet archives
out there, ye all just got too lazy with all the Google shit! Clearly
nobody has heard of Narkive...

There has been a thriving Usenet community outside of Google Groups
but people preferred the crutch of the Big G.

This is the RSS narkive... bookmark it for February 2024! ;-)

https://rec.sport.soccer.narkive.com/

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <nnd$69f54f32$071fe4bc@2c52aa28dfb49e56>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Futbolmetrix wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/15/2023 3:58 AM, Blueshirt wrote:
> >>
> >> > Why the sad face? Download a newsreader and sign up to a free
> >> > nntp service - I recommend www.eternal-september.org - and you
> >> > can have a proper Usenet experience...
> >>
> >> Do you have any advice on free newsreaders? I'm using
> >> Thunderbird/Eternal September here, but was having trouble
> >> installing it on another computer.
> >
> > alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>
> busy times!

Now's the time to offer the people here free Usenet from your NetKnow
NNTP servers in Canada Dave!!!

Be the hero for once... :-)

[The Doctor]

In article <nnd$50ce4059$45804a2a@f639fba16782b202>,

rock!!

[The Doctor]

In article <nnd$6e64c992$5f601058@26ab9b65034db816>,

I need them to pay the small monthly fee!

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <nnd$6e64c992$5f601058@26ab9b65034db816>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > Now's the time to offer the people here free Usenet from your NetKnow
> > NNTP servers in Canada Dave!!!
> >
> > Be the hero for once... :-)
> >
>
> I need them to pay the small monthly fee!

Define small ...

[The Doctor]

In article <ulibl5$21q2u$1...@dont-email.me>,

C$10 / month!

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <ulibl5$21q2u$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> > The Doctor wrote:
> >
> >> In article <nnd$6e64c992$5f601058@26ab9b65034db816>,
> >> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Now's the time to offer the people here free Usenet from your
> >> > NetKnow NNTP servers in Canada Dave!!!
> >> >
> >> > Be the hero for once... :-)
> >>
> >> I need them to pay the small monthly fee!
> >
> > Define small ...
>
> C$10 / month!

news.individual.net is €10... for the whole year!!!

[Mark]

I'm still unsure what this all means. After Feb 15 2024, will I be able to access rss using google groups?

[Blueshirt]

Mark wrote:

> On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 8:40:30 AM UTC, Blueshirt wrote:
> > Mark wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I understand what that means. Does it mean that
> > > nothing posted from newsreaders will show up on Google groups
> > > at all? But stuff from before Feb 15 will still be there? So,
> > > from Feb 15, either we've all got to use google groups or we've
> > > all got to use newsreaders, otherwise we won't be able to see
> > > everybody's messages?
> >
> > No, it means if you want to access Usenet you've got to use a
> > proper news service provider, there will be no Google Groups.
> >
>

> I'm still unsure what this all means. After Feb 15 2024, will I be
> able to access rss using google groups?

No Mark, you won't.

You will need a news service (i.e. somebody who provides access to
Usenet) and a newsreader of some sort.

If you are interested...


Free News servers:

https://www.eternal-september.org/


https://solani.org/


Free Newsreaders:

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-GB/


https://mpgravity.sourceforge.net/index.html

[Mark]

How do I download a newsreader? I tried eternal September and there's no information about how to download it, even in the FAQ. So I'm completely stuck already. See? I told you I was technophobic.

[Jesus Petry]

In Thunderbird's page there's a link to download and install the
newsreader. It's a really big button, you cannot miss it.

Tchau!
Jesus Petry

[Blueshirt]

You'll need a newsreader to access eternal-september, which is the
provider of the Usenet service and thousands of newsgroups. You don't
download that, you just register with their service. So go to the
eternal-september site and register with them... use this link. You will
need the password they send you when you register.

http://www.eternal-september.org/RegisterNewsAccount.php?language=en

Then download Thunderbird, using the link above (or a. n. other newsreader
if you prefer) click download, then install it like you would any other
piece of software, and get back to us...

[Real Mardin]

All valid points.

I wonder has the time come to revisit the idea of transferring rss to a web based forum? Or at least utilising a more visible platform such as twitter / X or Facebook to promote rss and attract new members?


RM

[Blueshirt]

Real Mardin wrote:
>
> I wonder has the time come to revisit the idea of transferring rss to a
> web based forum?

A web based forum? ... cough... splutter... <shocked face> !

Sacrilege!

[Werner Pichler]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the narkive
archives were a bit sketchy. And I might be overlooking something,
but where's the search function?


Also, I found another site that offers a similar service:

https://www.novabbs.com/sport/thread.php?group=rec.sport.soccer

and what I find interesting here is that the owner of the site has
apparently hand-picked those Usenet groups that still carry significant
traffic up to this day. They do still number in the dozens, if not
hundreds.


Ciao,
Werner

[MH]

>
> All valid points.
>
> I wonder has the time come to revisit the idea of transferring rss to a web based forum? Or at least utilising a more visible platform such as twitter / X or Facebook to promote rss and attract new members?

I don't do X or Bookface or tikTok or Instagram. If the group migrates
to a web based forum, I will not migrate with it.

>
>
> RM
>

[Blueshirt]

Werner Pichler wrote:

> On 15/12/2023 17:38, Blueshirt wrote:
> >
> > This is the RSS narkive... bookmark it for February 2024! ;-)
> >
> > https://rec.sport.soccer.narkive.com/
>
>
> I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the narkive
> archives were a bit sketchy. And I might be overlooking something,
> but where's the search function?

Yeah, it's not the finished article compared to Google Groups. Google
had twenty two years since it purchased DejaNews to get the archive
where it is today. I think we'll see more projects and finesse from
the Usenet community once Google leaves the scene as you won't be the
only one wanting a decent searchable archive. I believe Narkive is
still being worked on and IIRC it is only a one man operation.

For reading RSS posts online post February 2024 from a work computer
or something Narkive will do the job. For looking for a specific post
on RSS from 'Red Devil' in 2002 it might be a bit of a chore! ;-)

[The Doctor]

In article <ulqhf6$3mvgi$1...@dont-email.me>,

Exactly!

[Mark]

i CAN'T GET PAST THE CAPTCHA (and I've forgotten to turn caps lock off after typing in 5 different captcha things).

It does say near the top of the page "Error creating user account:68 Already exists". Could this mean I have successfully registered and they just didn't tell me?

[Ion Saliu]

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 7:51:22 PM UTC+2, Mark wrote:
>
> How do I download a newsreader? I tried eternal September and there's no information about how to download it, even in the FAQ. So I'm completely stuck already. See? I told you I was technophobic.

M’ritser, Axiomatics, Axiomatiques, Axiomatischen, Axiomáticos, Assiomatici, Axiomaticilor et al.:

The Google Groups service is still ALIVE. Google decided to kill only the USENET groups that the behemoth archived. An example is this very rec.sport.soccer (abbreviated RSS by the likes of M’ritser and Bintser and Doktor-Patient).

Google has offered also GROUPS in the manner of FORUMS. I created such a forum, totally moderated. I moderate each and every post. Virtually, it’s only me who posts in that Google group. Google will NOT eliminate such groups/forums (for how long?) Just click on the link, as you would do on any webpage, or email message, or Word document –
• https://groups.google.com/g/gamblingscience

You too can create such a group. But you must access Google Groups (GG) via a web interface (e.g. browser):
• https://groups.google.com/

Click ‘Create group’ at the top of the page. You can create an UNMODERATED group as well (the way RSS has always been).

There is a grave danger to the Usenet groups, including those accessible via Google Groups: SPAM-SPAM-SPAM! That’s what killed them GGs! Look at a newsgroup dedicated to AI programming:
• https://groups.google.com/g/comp.ai.neural-nets

A post every minute! Hundreds of posts a day (many in the Thai language)! They gobble up gazillions of megabytes! Not even gigantic corporations like Google can keep up with the cosmic deluge of bytes! Microsoft abandoned their group services a few years ago for the same reason.

A moderated group, however, can easily combat the pests. The moderators simply DELETE them “Thai spams” and BLOCK the spammers for good! But the moderators should have the guts to let group members post the way they do now in this RSS. Allow disputes, as they build bridges:
• https://saliu.com/bbs/messages/123.html
• Disputes in newsgroups can stimulate creativity.

Speaking of AI – Are the governments behind this outrageous SPAM-SPAM-SPAM deluge of Biblical proportions? Methinks along those lines. The governments are extremely hostile now towards AI. The hostility started with Usenet and aggravated with Facebook and social media. Those social platforms became LOUD, UNCENSORED social platforms. The governments don’t like that — never did, and never will.

There are three major forms of government today. All have ‘Fascism’ in their denomination — i.e., hostility to FREE free-speech). The difference from Communism: Fascism allows for private property.
• Fascist Liberalism (USA, European Union)
• Fascist Communism (China)
• Communist Fascism (Russia).

One still popular Usenet group is rec.gambling.lottery (abbreviated RGL by the likes of Kokostirk and Kotkoduck and Parpaluck). You can read similar comments regarding the “The Death of Usenet Posting Via Google Groups”.

• https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.lottery/c/V2cvQHuxxws
• World Lottery Championship RIP?

• https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.lottery/c/H9MyPpIUiEY
• Usenet Auschwitz

To me, Usenet existed only via Google Groups. It was convenient and clean. Not to mention the posts were INDEXED by the Google search engine. It’ll stay that way.


Ion “Axiomatic Parpaluck” Saliu
Founder of Philosophical Science of Posting
• https://saliu.com/ai-chatbots-ion-saliu.html

[Mark]

I'm in favour of a web based forum.

Btw since that message appeared at the top in Google groups, I'm having problems scrolling right down to the bottom of the page for some bizarre reason. Are other people having that problem? And has anyone got any idea why, or what can be done to solve the problem? Even finding where to click "Post message" can be difficult!

[Ion Saliu]

M’ritser:

Axiomático, it happens to everybody in the GG interface — most of the time, that is. There is a trick to bypass the problem: the TAB key. The key might appear as a double-arrow on some keyboards. The TAB key is located leftmost, 3rd row, on the US-based keyboard.

Go to the last (most recent) message. Click on the first line.
• Press the TAB key repeatedly, until you reach the end of the page. You’ll see also quite a bit of blank space!
• If you don’t see the ‘Reply’ button, press simultaneously Shift+TAB.

Btw — If you are “in favour of a web-based forum/newsgroup”, I suggest you create your own. See my previous post. Then, make an announcement right here. I’ll join your group.

[HASM]

Mark <Pammie...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:


> It does say near the top of the page "Error creating user account:68
> Already exists". Could this mean I have successfully registered and
> they just didn't tell me?

Do they have a "forgot password" link?

-- HASM

[Werner Pichler]

On 19/12/2023 14:06, Mark wrote:
>
>
> Btw since that message appeared at the top in Google groups, I'm having problems scrolling right down to the bottom of the page for some bizarre reason. Are other people having that problem? And has anyone got any idea why, or what can be done to solve the problem? Even finding where to click "Post message" can be difficult!

It's not just you, and simply emblematic of the crappy way Google Groups
has been handled these last fifteen years or so. They've put in the
banner message on top and don't care one bit whether that hampers usability.


Ciao,
Werner

[Futbolmetrix]

On Tuesday, December 19, 2023 at 8:06:44 AM UTC-5, Mark wrote:

> Btw since that message appeared at the top in Google groups, I'm having problems scrolling right down to the bottom of the page for some bizarre reason. Are other people having that problem? And has anyone got any idea why, or what can be done to solve the problem? Even finding where to click "Post message" can be difficult!

Yes, I'm having the same problem.

[Blueshirt]

Don't wait until February, start the transition now...

[The Doctor]

In article <ult6m2$7qag$1...@dont-email.me>,

I back you there!

[Jesus Petry]

It was not all bad, though.
Their previously friendly mobile interface allowed me to post on rss
from a World Cup game (Nigeria - Argentina) back in 2014.

Tchau!
Jesus Petry

[Mark]

On Tuesday, December 19, 2023 at 1:53:43 PM UTC, HASM wrote:

> Mark writes:
>
>
> > It does say near the top of the page "Error creating user account:68
> > Already exists". Could this mean I have successfully registered and
> > they just didn't tell me?
> Do they have a "forgot password" link?
>
> -- HASM

Yes, I just tried it and it doesn't seem to have worked though. So it doesn't look as if I have successfully registered. Does my userID have to be unique? I chose Mark because that's what everybody knows me as on here. Could that be the problem?

[Mark]

Thanks. That seems to be working.

>
> Btw — If you are “in favour of a web-based forum/newsgroup”, I suggest you create your own. See my previous post. Then, make an announcement right here. I’ll join your group.

Who else will though? Maybe we should have some kind of poll to see how many people would prefer a web based forum/newsgroup, and how many would prefer to use newsreaders. I'm getting the impression most people would prefer newsreaders though.

[HASM]

> Does my userID have to be unique?

One needs the username/password to access the nntp server, thus it
better be unique.

> I chose Mark because that's what everybody knows me as on here.

Probably already taken, but no one will see your eternal-september ID.
Mine is not HASM.

You can customize your newsreader with a from address (I use a phony
one), signature signature (I don't have one) and those do not need to be
unique.

-- HASM

[Blueshirt]

Correct. Newsreaders allow you to put a custom name, custom e-mail
address and/or a signature (if required), for display ... for
instance, my registered name with eternal-september is not Blueshirt,
and I registered with them using a proper e-mail address not
blue...@indigo.news. Indigo News stopped being a real news service
many years ago, so the e-mail address displayed with my posts is
[now] a fake e-mail address. (So definitely no spam!)

You register with your real name and chose your posting Identity, be
it "HASM", "Mark" or "Blueshirt"!

[HASM]

Mark <Pammie...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:


> Maybe we should have some kind of poll to see how many people would
> prefer a web based forum/newsgroup, and how many would prefer to use
> newsreaders.

Don't like web based forums. Probably wouldn't like most newsreaders either.

Any interface where I have to take my hands off the "classic" part of
the keyboard, to reach for the mouse, arrows, page up/down, home/end,
delete keys sucks too.

Emacs/Gnus for news, I can navigate news with my fingers sitting on a
few keys. Ditto with emacs/mh-e for email.

-- HASM

[Ion Saliu]

>> Who else will though? Maybe we should have some kind of poll to see how many people would prefer a web-based forum/newsgroup, and how many would prefer to use newsreaders. I'm getting the impression most people would prefer newsreaders though.

M’ritser:

Axiomático, this is the proverbial case of “De gustibus non disputandum”. “most people”, as you put it so eloquently, means a couple dozen or so. Most of them, serios members with a keen interest in the philosophical art of soccer.

But I can tell you for a fact that a much larger of readers in this group are LURKERS. They get here via Internet searches. Google and other search engines INDEX worthy postings in Usenet. There will be no more indexing after February 15, 2024. All Usenet messages will be treated as the email messages. They are DEAD on a few people’s PCs. And all messages will be deleted after a while due to storage restraints!

The newsreaders are also FLOODED WITH A LOT OF GARBAGE. Like it or not, the newsreaders will throw junk down your throat.

There are huge advantages to web-based forums such as those offered by Google Groups.

• Membership is on an approval-basis only. Obvious spammers are ruled out from the start.

• Spamming messages are rooted out by the owners/moderators. They can also block the spammers for good.

• The messages can be formatted like in Google Documents or Microsoft Office. Available: font selection, image and video inserting, link inserting, etc.

Just take a look at this web-based Google group:
• • https://groups.google.com/g/gamblingscience

And look how flexible the group setting are:

• Who can see group: Anyone on the web
• Who can join group: Anyone on the web (pending approval)
• Who can view conversations: Anyone on the web
• Who can post: Group members
• Who can view members: Group managers
• Who is group content suitable for? If you choose Adults only, you can't change this later.
• Who can contact group owners: Anyone on the web

• Posting policies
• • Allow Email Posting
• • Allow web posting
• • Allow users to post to the group on the web.

• Conversation history
• • Keep conversations in Google Groups and let members get email digests (required for Collaborative Inbox).
• • ON
• • OFF

• Who can reply privately to authors: Group members
• Who can attach files: Group members

• Message moderation: Choose whether to moderate messages before delivery

• New member restrictions
• • Restrictions can be removed for individual members in member management.

• Spam message handling
• Notify senders when posts are rejected
• • ON
• • OFF

Etc., etc., etc.


Ion “Axiomatic Parpaluck” Saliu
Founder of Philosophical Science of Argumentative Posting
• https://saliu.com/argumentum.html

[Blueshirt]

Ion Saliu wrote:
>
> But I can tell you for a fact that a much larger of readers in this
> group are LURKERS. They get here via Internet searches. Google and
> other search engines INDEX worthy postings in Usenet. There will be
> no more indexing after February 15, 2024. All Usenet messages will
> be treated as the email messages. They are DEAD on a few people’s
> PCs. And all messages will be deleted after a while due to storage
> restraints!
>
> The newsreaders are also FLOODED WITH A LOT OF GARBAGE. Like it or
> not, the newsreaders will throw junk down your throat.
>
> There are huge advantages to web-based forums such as those offered
> by Google Groups.

Personally, I think that's a load of nonsense. The Google crutch has
been removed, walk or get left on the ground. There are other web
based Usenet access points. More will almost certainly spring up post
February 2024.

Too many people have spent the last decade thinking Google IS the
internet and Google Groups IS Usenet, and nothing exists outside of
it's grubby tentacles...

The good ship Usenet is proceeding full steam ahead and come February
Usenet posters will be on the decks waving back at the Google Groups
users who are standing on the pier with their handkerchiefs in their
hands...