RMCR: on 22 February 2024 the carnival is over

[Roland van Gaalen]

I am now almost 66 years old and started posting in this USENET newsgroup REC.MUSIC.CLASSICAL.RECORDINGS (RMCR) almost three decades ago, on 27 December 1995, at age 37. As far as I am concerned, Google's decision to not support any further USENET content from 22 February 2024 onwards means the end of RMCR as an easily accessible open forum. All things considered, I enjoyed participating in RMCR much more than in Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. I will post only a few more messages here but you can find me on Bluesky.

The Seekers - 'The Carnival Is Over' - Extended Fan Version https://youtu.be/aiA0XeGduG4

Roland van Gaalen
The Netherlands
Bluesky: @rolandvangaalen.bsky.social

[Dan Koren]

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 2:19:56 PM UTC-8, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
> I am now almost 66 years old and started posting in this USENET
> newsgroup REC.MUSIC.CLASSICAL.RECORDINGS (RMCR) almost
> three decades ago, on 27 December 1995, at age 37. As far as I am
> concerned, Google's decision to not support any further USENET
> content from 22 February 2024 onwards means the end of RMCR
> as an easily accessible open forum. All things considered, I enjoyed
> participating in RMCR much more than in Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.
> I will post only a few more messages here but you can find me on Bluesky.
>
> The Seekers - 'The Carnival Is Over' - Extended Fan Version https://youtu.be/aiA0XeGduG4

Time for The Requiem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPxHEN9lXCU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddmkkkstpcc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8OT2HVx23g

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kZVgViHnq163VIbBkgn2hBS_fc3ZzjnOM

Dvorak''s requiem is to my ears the requiem to end
all requiems. It makes all other requiems sound
almost like entertainmant. Honorable mentions
also to Verdi and to Fauré.

Cheers!

[Richard Kaplan]

So, what is the net effect for users of RMCR? I'm not sure what USENET is.

[PPeso]

On 2/16/2024 6:24 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> Time for The Requiem:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPxHEN9lXCU
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddmkkkstpcc
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8OT2HVx23g
>
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kZVgViHnq163VIbBkgn2hBS_fc3ZzjnOM
>
> Dvorak''s requiem is to my ears the requiem to end
> all requiems. It makes all other requiems sound
> almost like entertainmant. Honorable mentions
> also to Verdi and to Fauré.
>
> Cheers!
>
>

And for the requiem to start all requiems:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDcrY7cuHYw

[Pluted Pup]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 22:13:05 -0800, Richard Kaplan wrote:

> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 5:24:12?PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:

With usenet I can see your headers. Google denies
you seeing the headers that all usenet posts have:

Path: border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2024 22:13:05 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To:<bacf1582-5a60-4615...@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:1702:1e50:6a90:8817:5e29:8c90:94c2;
posting-account=8RA1uwoAAADU2obBI0wrJX7zVoE87AYS
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:1702:1e50:6a90:8817:5e29:8c90:94c2
References:<46c02a66-99e2-4b23...@googlegroups.com><bacf1582-5a60-4615...@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID:<9f01679a-3afe-46d9...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: RMCR: on 22 February 2024 the carnival is over
From: Richard Kaplan <richard.a...@gmail.com>
Injection-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 06:13:06 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bytes: 3167
Lines: 33

[Frank Berger]

This has been explained a zillion times. When you read or post to RMCR you are using USENET. Your interface may be Google groups or a USENET reader such as Thunderbird. Giving up because it's too complicated is ridiculous.

[Frank Berger]

Giving up is ridiculous is use still find value in RMCR. Subscribe to a USENET server, download a reader and you are good to go.

[Dan Koren]

And the headers allow you to find out
if the poster is Jewish? Amazing! You
don't need no headers for this!

Cheers!

[Owen Hartnett]

On Feb 17, 2024 at 1:13:05 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"

<richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 2:19:56 PM UTC-8, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
>>> I am now almost 66 years old and started posting in this USENET
>>> newsgroup REC.MUSIC.CLASSICAL.RECORDINGS (RMCR) almost
>>> three decades ago, on 27 December 1995, at age 37. As far as I am
>>> concerned, Google's decision to not support any further USENET
>>> content from 22 February 2024 onwards means the end of RMCR
>>> as an easily accessible open forum. All things considered, I enjoyed
>>> participating in RMCR much more than in Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.
>>> I will post only a few more messages here but you can find me on Bluesky.
>>>
>>> The Seekers - 'The Carnival Is Over' - Extended Fan Version
>>> https://youtu.be/aiA0XeGduG4
>>

> So, what is the net effect for users of RMCR? I'm not sure what USENET is.

To continue to use RMCR you need to subscribe to a service that provides
usenet. And you also need a usenet client. I like Usenapp client, but it is
only available for Mac. Thunderbird is free and available for mac & pc but
harder to use. I use supernews.com, but it's on the pricy side. There are also
some free usenet servers, but, in many cases, you get what you pay for.

-Owen

[Roland van Gaalen]

Op zondag 18 februari 2024 om 19:49:43 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:

REC.MUSIC.CLASSICAL.RECORDINGS has been dying a slow death, although there are now a few fairly lively active threads reminiscent of the good old days. Moreover, it won't be an easily accessible group anymore. That nails the coffin shut; RMCR just can't and won't be the same if you have to subscribe to a USENET server and download a reader to be able to read it and participate. Yes, enough people used to do that a few decades ago (I vaguely remember subscribing to a server located in Berlin and reading RMCR from DOS using UNIX commands, but times have changed.) Looking back, the decline and fall of RMCR makes me sad — in its heyday, having access to this open, unmoderated forum, with a variety of knowledgeable, distinguished, brilliant contributors as well as ordinary mortals participating , was truly wonderful, at least from my perspective as a simple CD buyer without any musical training or background. It felt like a privilege. I don't remember ever being talked down to. (In that respect, RMCR was similar to the famous chess café Gambit in Amsterdam, where players of all levels were welcome, certified masters as well as beginners, and even played together in speed chess tournaments! It closed in 2005, and nothing has replaced it.)

[Paul Goodman]

Roland van Gaalen <rolandv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> REC.MUSIC.CLASSICAL.RECORDINGS has been dying a slow death, although
> there are now a few fairly lively active threads reminiscent of the good
> old days. Moreover, it won't be an easily accessible group anymore. That
> nails the coffin shut; RMCR just can't and won't be the same if you have
> to subscribe to a USENET server and download a reader to be able to read
> it and participate. Yes, enough people used to do that a few decades ago
> (I vaguely remember subscribing to a server located in Berlin and reading
> RMCR from DOS using UNIX commands, but times have changed.) Looking
> back, the decline and fall of RMCR makes me sad — in its heyday, having
> access to this open, unmoderated forum, with a variety of knowledgeable,
> distinguished, brilliant contributors as well as ordinary mortals
> participating , was truly wonderful, at least from my perspective as a
> simple CD buyer without any musical training or background. It felt like
> a privilege. I don't remember ever being talked down to. (In that
> respect, RMCR was similar to the famous chess café Gambit in Amsterdam,
> where players of all levels were welcome, certified masters as well as
> beginners, and even played together in speed chess tournaments! It closed
> in 2005, and nothing has replaced it.)
>
> Roland van Gaalen
> The Netherlands

Roland, the server in Berlin you used before was probably
<news.individual.net> and it is still functioning. After you get past the
hassle of setting up the newsreader the first time, it will be just as
easy, if not easier, to read and respond to this group than it was with
Google. So I’m thinking that if you still enjoy being her and want to
continue, you may find this whole thing a lot easier to deal with than you
think. It is obviously up to you, but I hope you stay.

—
Paul Goodman

[Dan Koren]

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 2:43:12 PM UTC-8, Paul Goodman wrote:
>
> Roland, the server in Berlin you used before was probably
> <news.individual.net> and it is still functioning. After you get past the
> hassle of setting up the newsreader the first time, it will be just as
> easy, if not easier, to read and respond to this group than it was with
> Google. So I’m thinking that if you still enjoy being her and want to
> continue, you may find this whole thing a lot easier to deal with than you
> think. It is obviously up to you, but I hope you stay.

What if Roland does not want to be "her" ?!? ;-)

Cheers

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 10:49:43 PM UTC+4, Frank Berger wrote:

> Giving up is ridiculous is use still find value in RMCR.

Agreed. The problem is that there's very little value to be found here these days. I certainly don't find enough to justify going back to a newsreader. (I obviously don't judge others who feel differently.) I visit now mostly out of habit.

Those of you from the old days who are still here: take care, and best of luck!

Matty

[Oscar]

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 10:49:43 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Giving up is ridiculous is use still find value in RMCR. Subscribe to a USENET server, download a reader and you are good to go.

I know you use Thunderbird, Frank, but to which server do you subscribe? Pray tell.

[Herman]

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 10:25:31 PM UTC+1, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
>
> > >
> REC.MUSIC.CLASSICAL.RECORDINGS has been dying a slow death, although there are now a few fairly lively active threads reminiscent of the good old days. Moreover, it won't be an easily accessible group anymore. That nails the coffin shut;

Roland has it exactly right, why enlist in an ancient technology, just to be witness to an ever shrinking group of people mostly talking about peripheral matters, such as that one track in a 80 CD box that was cut off too soon or, indeed, about why you need to get a usenet server. I don't know how many times this tautological topic has been discussed over the years; it's like talking about repairing a 1880 tricycle to somebody who asked for the way to the restaurant. There are plenty of music groups online with people who actually talk about music.

It would make more sense to start a new RMCR on current technology, a tiny migration, but RMCR has become a haven for people attached to their recording heroes from the Fifties, a completely random and likewise to this fifty-year old usenet technology. Thinking Inside the Box would be a great title.

There used to be people on RMCR who really loved music and knew what they were talking about. People who were curious and interested instead of forever reiterating their imprint versions from way back. Mandryka and Todd are the last ones. Most people have been driven out by phony blowhards like DK who needs to be on every topic, posting derogatory comments about whatever people are listening to, or ‘jokes’ only funny to himself. I mean when even the notorious gggg gggg decides the RMCR climate is too harsh….

Like Roland says, when RMCR is no longer easily accessible via google, no new people will join the conversation and eventually it’ll be just Frank, DK and this guy in his grandpa's Hitlerjugend shorts. A trio made in heaven, but who needs it?

For the remaining members who genuinely liked music the antisemitism campaign DK started out of sheer boredom has been RMCR’s death knell. The way it got to be standard m.o. to accuse members of being antisemite. The war in Gaza finished it.

The funny thing is Roland and I probably live within earshot from each other. So who needs usenet? Wishing all my friends from RMCR well, this is goodbye.

[Chris J.]

On 18 Feb 2024 Paul Goodman wrote:

> Roland, the server in Berlin you used before was probably
> <news.individual.net> and it is still functioning. After you get past
> the hassle of setting up the newsreader the first time, it will be just
> as easy, if not easier, to read and respond to this group than it was
> with Google. So I’m thinking that if you still enjoy being her and want
> to continue, you may find this whole thing a lot easier to deal with
> than you think. It is obviously up to you, but I hope you stay.

I agree. And it will cost Roland only the price of a couple of beers or
coffees in his favourite hipster hangout.:-)

About news.individual.net:

"Spam (e.g. unsolicited advertisements) is filtered out automatically by
the server.
[...]
Our server does not publish any personal information about the user in
posting headers that the user does not publish himself. In particular, the
user's IP address is not visible to third parties.
[...]
"How much is an account?
10 EUR per year, including the applicable VAT. Contract duration is one
year, after which the subscription can be renewed for another year by
paying 10 EUR again (we will remind you in time). Cancellation is not
necessary.[...]
You can choose from the following payment options: The online payment
service provider PayPal, as well as payment by bank transfer to a German
bank account of Freie Universität Berlin (with IBAN and BIC)."

https://news.individual.net/overview.php

Detailed configuration guides for Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, Android and
iPhone/iPad:
https://news.individual.net/config.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Usenet_newsreaders#Free/Open-
source_software

Chris

[Herman]

And it will cost Roland only the price of a couple of beers or
> coffees in his favourite hipster hangout.:-)
>

He just explained a big factor for him (and others) is that this ancient technology will make RMCR inaccessible to new people. The attrition has been severe, and the RMCR experience has become increasingly claustrophobic, which is why Roland used the word "coffin".

He mentioned his age.

There comes an age you start to think is getting called names like antisemite the best use of my remaining time.

[Mandryka]

Symphonyshare still has some of the feel of the old rmcr, and indeed many of its members still post there. I appreciate that it isn't possible for everyone to join. Some of the people who left rmcr still contribute there.

But really it doesn't matter. There are other places online to discuss music with people. They are admittedly moderated and not open, but that isn't a great problem IMO. On the contrary, what has happened to rmcr suggests that the open unmoderated model is no longer viable.

A few days ago I looked at an old discussion I started on rmcr about Debussy's preludes book 2 - I started it in 2010. The discussion was pretty good IMO. I then resurrected it in 2022 and the discussion was poor. If you look at the thread, who contributed, it'll maybe become clearer what the cause of the attrition and decline was.

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/YWN1dH-wM30/m/RGPcQCs3AgAJ

[Todd M. McComb]

In article <677c32f2-d8a9-4402...@googlegroups.com>,

Herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>He just explained a big factor for him (and others) is that this
>ancient technology will make RMCR inaccessible to new people.

And I think that getting away from Google will make everything more
pleasant. Of course, I don't just state that as a fact. I also
expect more web interfaces to appear.

[Gerard]

Op maandag 19 februari 2024 om 19:09:03 UTC+1 schreef Todd M. McComb:

The interface by Thunderbird always has been more pleasant than Google Groups.
Before that there have been other more pleasant interfaces like Outlook Express.
I don't think that any company wil invest anything in such the old outoffashion medium Usenet is. It's amost dead - Google helps it dying.
BTW RMCR - as it is now - is not worth the effort of switchting to another interface than Google Groups.

[Mandryka]

There'll be less spam without google -- but spam was never the problem here. When rmcr was doing well there was lots of spam.

[Todd M. McComb]

In article <56f663f6-d6d8-41b5...@googlegroups.com>,

Gerard <cbc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't think that any company wil invest anything in such the old
>outoffashion medium Usenet is.

Well, this is really the thing. Usenet is about being a distributed
system, with no one in control. Meanwhile, for-profit tech companies
want monopolistic platforms & total control. So no, they won't be
looking into Usenet.

[Oscar]

On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 2:18:09 AM, herman wrote:
>
> The funny thing is Roland and I probably live within earshot from each other. So who needs usenet? Wishing all my friends from RMCR well, this is goodbye.

Very sorry to hear that, herman. My IG handle, for you and all, is oethree, should you like to look at photos of me and my interests. Wherever I am in an online forum my handle is usually OE3, oethree or Oscar.

Since 2005 I have been a contributor at Steve Hoffman Forums, but my contributions there fell off c.2009/10, around the time I found r.m.c.r. to be a more appealing forum. Loved the openness here, and the contributors, in general, were more erudite and knowledgable, far more than me. The SH Forums 'Classical Music Corner' is a thread within the SH Forums Music Forum and it was 'founded' in 2008. Some contributors to r.m.c.r. are also there, and it is a pretty good bunch. I will probably migrate back there, but alas, not the same. Also: I will endeavor to configure my devices to the 'true' r.m.c.r. Usenet experience. But the inaccessibility to newcomers really does make it seem like stepping into quicksand in the dark. Still, I will fight the good fight.

[Oscar]

P.S. herman, my invitation to you still stands: If you ever need a pick-up at LAX I will be happy to do so. I want to hear the entire story, unabridged, about seeing that great hippie band, Moby Grape (with Skip Spence), in San Francisco.

[Oscar]

On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 10:34:49 AM, Gerard wrote:
>
> BTW RMCR - as it is now - is not worth the effort of switching to another interface than Google Groups.

Very sorry to hear that, Gerard. You have been a stalwart contributor and took heaps of abuse from teedee in the old days.

[Herman]

On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 9:09:55 PM UTC+1, Oscar wrote:
> P.S. herman, my invitation to you still stands: If you ever need a pick-up at LAX I will be happy to do so. I want to hear the entire story, unabridged, about seeing that great hippie band, Moby Grape (with Skip Spence), in San Francisco.

Oscar, I'm going to miss your way with words, believe me.

As to Moby Grape, I did not catch them in their home town, but on their Febr 1969 European tour. They were a quartet back then, Skip Spence was out, unfortunately. You don't want to know how underage I was at the time... If it helps I went to two no-show Jimi Hendrix concerts at the time, too. Did get to see the original Peter Green Fleetwood Mac.

One of the Grape guys was wearing a short fur coat as was fashionable for rock guitarists (see Brian Jones et al), no matter how hot the lights were. They looked real uptight and there wasn't a whole lot of spoken word between the songs.

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 2:52:02 AM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
>
> There comes an age you start to think is
> getting called names like antisemite the
> best use of my remaining time.

Better than pretending you play the violin!
And definitely more accurate.

Cheers

[Frank Berger]

Supernews.

[Oscar]

Less than 36 hours to go! Godspeed, my friends! I will see you on Usenet. May take me a little bit of time to acquire and configure the programs necessary to get there, but alas, I shall do so.

"Thanks for the memory." -Bob Hope (1903-2003)

[Owen Hartnett]

To all:

Best of luck to anyone here jumping ship without a lifeboat. It's sad when old
friends depart.

I'll still be here, along with others. We'll find out how many soon.

-Owen

[palsing]

https://news.novabbs.com/arts/thread.php?group=rec.music.classical.recordings

[Oscar]

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 2:45:21 PM, palsing wrote:
>
> https://news.novabbs.com/arts/thread.php?group=rec.music.classical.recordings

Wow! I hope others see this fella link, mr. palsing. Access to Usenet and r.m.c.r. from the www with no other 'stuff' to download? Looks like it is that easy.

[Herman]

Well, talk about old technology!
These New Abs look like stone age, too!
Hilarious.

[Dan Koren]

?!? You are neither "here" nor "there".
In internet/usenet groups have no
"here" or "there". All the content is
everywhere.

If one equates "here" with Google
groups, one cannot "stay here" no
matter what one does.

See you all over "there"! ;-)

Cheers!

dk