Wesendonck-Lieder
William Quentin (bloom)
Lipovsek and the Philadelphia Orchestra cond. by Wolfgang Sawallisch
(orchestrated by Hans Werner Henze) and Christa Ludwig and the
Philharmonia Orchestra cond. by Otto Klemperer (orchestrated by Felix
Mottl).
These are both excellent recordings, imo. Both Ludwig and Lipovsek
sing beautifully, Ludwig with a much larger voice and darker tone (and
maybe a bit too much vibrato), Lipovsek with a lighter touch and
clearer tone, reminding me of her great chamber performances (in
particular her Schumann disc with Graham Johnson). Obviously,
however, the biggest difference between these two recordings is in the
orchestration. Henze uses a small chamber orchestra, and a number of
inventive effects. It works very well. The Mottl orchestration (for
a full Tristan-style Wagnerian orchestra) is the much more well-known
of the two, obviously, and I certainly enjoy it; to be honest, though,
I tend to listen to Henze's version more frequently.
Anyway, of these two competing orchestrations, what other recordings
would you recommend? Also, are there any recordings of the
Wesendonck-Lieder in their original piano versions? I haven't spent a
lot of time looking; nevertheless, I haven't been able to find them if
they are out there. In particular, I'd love to hear Lipovsek singing
these songs in their original incarnations - she really has a way with
them.
-Billy
mazzolata
> Anyway, of these two competing orchestrations, what other recordings
> would you recommend?
I have Jessye Norman singing them with Colin Davis and the LSO. This is
on Philips, coupled with the excellent Strauss 'Vier Letzte Lieder';
also with Norman, but with Masur/Liepzig.
Paul Goldstein
>
>Anyway, of these two competing orchestrations, what other recordings
>would you recommend? Also, are there any recordings of the
>Wesendonck-Lieder in their original piano versions? I haven't spent a
>lot of time looking; nevertheless, I haven't been able to find them if
>they are out there. In particular, I'd love to hear Lipovsek singing
>these songs in their original incarnations - she really has a way with
>them.
Maureen Forrester sang the piano versions magnificently on an old London Stereo
Treasury LP that has AFAIK never made it to CD. Janet Baker's orchestral
versions are my favorite in that form.
Paul Goldstein
Edward A. Cowan
1948 for HMV (now EMI). This was reissued on CD on EMI 7 63030 2. In
the same year she made her first of two commercial recordings of the
Immolation Scene from _Götterdämmerung_ with Wilhelm Furtwängler and
the Philharmonia Orch. (This is also on the CD.) Flagstad also
recorded the Mottl orchestration in stereo with Hans Knappertsbusch
for Decca/London. This was also reissued on CD in some kind of
grab-bag CD with recordings by other sopranos. (Not sure of the
catalogue number.)
Other recordings with piano include: Tiana Lemnitz (w. Michael
Raucheisen), Margaret Price (w. G. Johnson), and Jessye Norman (w.
Irwin Gage).
Eileen Farrell recorded an incomparable version of these songs with
Leonard Bernstein and the NYPO (reissued by Sony), also the Mottl
version (as are most recordings). There had been an earlier Farrell
recording cond. Leopold Stokowski.
You will find an authoritative review by John Steane of recorded
versions of this cycle up to 1986 in Alan Blyth's _Song on Record_:
Vol.1, Lieder_, pp.210-218. This chapter also includes reviews of
individual songs from the cycle by a wide variety of singers
(including Franco Corelli, who recorded "Der Engel" in French!).
Curously, Steane's listing omits the Farrell/Bernstein mentioned
above.
Hope this helps... --E.A.C.
Stevevasta
>would you recommend?
I'm not sure which orchestration is used, but you ought to check out the
Farrell/Bernstein.
David7Gable
>would you recommend?
I had no idea there were orchestrations by Henze. (Presumably you know Träume
was orchestrated by Wagner.)
I have a voluptuous account of the Mottl versions with Boulez and Jessye Norman
on cassette, a live recording with the BBC SO from the early 80's that I think
has also made it to a Gala CD. Boulez is a lot more lively than Davis on his
commercial recording with Norman, and she's more alert and involved as well. I
also have Ludwig/Klemperer and Minton/Boulez. I love the Minton/Boulez, but
I'm not sure anybody else would. This is one of my favorite recordings, but I
really don't know why. Minton turns in a comparatively understated performance
with her characteristic directness, care, and distanced formality. Boulez
exerts a consummate technical control over the swirling figures in the
accompaniment of "Stehe still," and he's very careful in inscribing the
envelopes of Wagner's shapes throughout, but in general he's comparatively
reticent until the most ecstatic moments where his performance suddenly blooms
in a burst of clean smooth sound. (The orchestral sound is very clean and
smooth in the later if not the latest Boulez manner, although the recording
itself is less than perfect.) A somewhat strange performance, but I'm not
giving it up.
I haven't heard it in a long time, but there is also Flagstad/Knappertsbusch,
which on the face of it could be terrific, although it's from late in her
career. And speaking of legendary Wagnerian sopranos, if you've never heard
her, you might want to check out Frida Leider's Wesendonck songs (and much else
besides). Period sound, of course. I have this on LP somewhere, but Preiser
(and others?) has (have) issued it on CD.
>Also, are there any recordings of the
>Wesendonck-Lieder in their original piano versions?
Yes, there are, with singers as estimable as Maureen Forrester and Kirsten
Flagstad, although it's been years since I heard either one. There are surely
others, too. I've given up hoping for Forrester to turn up on CD.
-david gable
David7Gable
>Leonard Bernstein and the NYPO (reissued by Sony),
I completely forgot about that one, although I have it. In the Bernstein
"Royal Edition." For me, Bernstein is the star here. Wow!
>You will find an authoritative review by John Steane of recorded
>versions of this cycle up to 1986 in Alan Blyth's _Song on Record_:
>Vol.1, Lieder_, pp.210-218.
I regard E.A.C. as "authoratative." John Steane is knowledgeable but totally
deaf, and his writing style is annoying.
>(including Franco Corelli, who recorded "Der Engel" in French!).
You've got to be kidding. How can one come by that? Then again, I think both
of Maria Callas's recordings of the Liebestod are stunning, Italian or no
("Dolce e calmo").
-david gable
David7Gable
>Farrell/Bernstein.
Mottl. As with the overwhelming majority of performances. (When was the Henze
done?)
-david gable
Richard Bernas
> Anyway, of these two competing orchestrations, what other recordings
> would you recommend? Also, are there any recordings of the
> Wesendonck-Lieder in their original piano versions? I haven't spent a
> lot of time looking; nevertheless, I haven't been able to find them if
> they are out there. In particular, I'd love to hear Lipovsek singing
> these songs in their original incarnations - she really has a way with
> them.
>
> -Billy
I recently heard an early-ish performance by Marilyn Horne
(originally a Decca Phase Four, I think) which really surprised me. A
warm even sound, as you woud expect, but also subtle variety of colour
and great delivery of the text. Henry Lewis accompanied really well.
It's probably on its fifth re-packaging by now, so if you come across
it give it a try. It's a sleeper.
Richard
William Quentin (bloom)
According to Barry Millington in the notes that accompany my CD, Henze
made the orchestration in 1976. Here's what Millington says about it:
"The orchestration by Hans Werner Henze... is a remarkably sensitive
reworking of the songs. Henze's chamber forces include an alto flute,
cor anglais, bass clarinet, double bassoon and harp, in addition to
the more usual flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon (one of each), two horns
and strings. He generally leaves the original harmonies intact, but
adds little counterpoints and colorations that subtly enhance the
setting of the text. The strings are often divided into several
parts, producing sumptuously rich textural effects."
Wolfgang Sawallisch has this to say:
"Special effects - such as harp or divisi strings, and even flageolett
solos - create, to my mind, a more aesthetically pleasing fidelity to
the spirit of these wonderful songs which blossom in a new light and
lose any semblance of bombast."
I have to say, I agree with both Sawallisch and Millington. ;-)
Throw in Marjana Lipovsek's beautiful singing, and this is a recording
which I'm glad I tracked down via ebay. It's an EMI release, and
along with the Faust and Rienzi overtures, it also has the overture to
Das Liebesverbot and Wagner's Symphony in E (all played by the
Philadelphia Orchestra and Wolfgang Sawallisch). Overall, it's a very
interesting disc (the Wesendonck-Lieder are definitely the highlight).
I actually emailed you about this disc a couple of days ago, David.
Hopefully that email got through to you, what with all the spam flying
around here of late. ;-)
-Billy
william d. kasimer
> Maureen Forrester sang the piano versions magnificently on an old London Stereo
> Treasury LP that has AFAIK never made it to CD. Janet Baker's orchestral
> versions are my favorite in that form.
Isn't this it?:
Bill
Paul Goldstein
says...
Very likely so, given the presence of John Newmark, who was the accompanist on
the LP, and the fact that Forrester/Newmark Wesendoncks are also listed (that
was the flip side of the LP). Good catch, Bill!
Paul Goldstein
Paul Goldstein
And, listening to the excerpts, this is indeed it.
Paul Goldstein
David7Gable
>Hopefully that email got through to you, what with all the spam flying
>around here of late. ;-)
Billy, I was infected with the SoBig virus for the second time this month over
the weekend, but I've just answered your e-mail. (And it's not SoBig that
delayed my response.)
-david gable
Simon Roberts
>Lipovsek and the Philadelphia Orchestra cond. by Wolfgang Sawallisch
>(orchestrated by Hans Werner Henze) and Christa Ludwig and the
>Philharmonia Orchestra cond. by Otto Klemperer (orchestrated by Felix
>Mottl).
>
>These are both excellent recordings, imo. Both Ludwig and Lipovsek
>sing beautifully, Ludwig with a much larger voice and darker tone (and
>maybe a bit too much vibrato), Lipovsek with a lighter touch and
>clearer tone, reminding me of her great chamber performances (in
>particular her Schumann disc with Graham Johnson). Obviously,
>however, the biggest difference between these two recordings is in the
>orchestration. Henze uses a small chamber orchestra, and a number of
>inventive effects. It works very well. The Mottl orchestration (for
>a full Tristan-style Wagnerian orchestra) is the much more well-known
>of the two, obviously, and I certainly enjoy it; to be honest, though,
>I tend to listen to Henze's version more frequently.
>
>Anyway, of these two competing orchestrations, what other recordings
>would you recommend?
Are there other recordings of the Henze? Either way, I would start with Regine
Crespin's recording on EMI (part of an EMI Crespin box).
Simon
Simon Roberts
>
>>Anyway, of these two competing orchestrations, what other recordings
>>would you recommend?
>
>I had no idea there were orchestrations by Henze. (Presumably you know Träume
>was orchestrated by Wagner.)
>
>I have a voluptuous account of the Mottl versions with Boulez and Jessye Norman
>on cassette, a live recording with the BBC SO from the early 80's that I think
>has also made it to a Gala CD. Boulez is a lot more lively than Davis on his
>commercial recording with Norman, and she's more alert and involved as well. I
>also have Ludwig/Klemperer and Minton/Boulez. I love the Minton/Boulez, but
>I'm not sure anybody else would.
I'm very keen on it (as I am about most Minton recordings).
Changing tack more than a little, I would also direct anyone with an
appropriately sick sense of humour to Rene Kollo's recording....
Simon
William Quentin (bloom)
>
>Are there other recordings of the Henze? Either way, I would start with Regine
>Crespin's recording on EMI (part of an EMI Crespin box).
>
>Simon
That's a good question. I haven't done any extensive searching, but
it's looking like the Sawallisch disc might be the only one. Of
course, I think it's out of print now. ;-)
-Billy
David7Gable
recordings).
>
Hope it's not your only exposure to Boulez's Wagner or Mahler, Simon, although
I like the Wagner songs pretty much. (The Rückert Lieder are even more laid
back than the Wesendonck's and I swear they're less well recorded than the
Wesendonck songs although it's hard to imagine them not coming from the same
sessions. There's not a lot of power or lapel-grabbing fervor from the brass
in "Um Mitternacht.")
-david gable
Simon Roberts
MHS may still have it, or have they ditched it too?
Simon
Simon Roberts
>
>>I'm very keen on it [Minton/Boulez Wesendonck's] (as I am about most Minton
>recordings).
>>
>
>Hope it's not your only exposure to Boulez's Wagner or Mahler, Simon, although
>I like the Wagner songs pretty much.
No - I have his Ring, which I like (in fact I like all his Wagner I've
encountered despite some of the singers).
Simon
David R L Porter
from e.c...@comcast.net (Edward A. Cowan) contains these words:
> Kirsten Flagstad recorded the Wesendonck-Lieder with Gerald Moore in
> 1948 for HMV (now EMI). This was reissued on CD on EMI 7 63030 2. In
> the same year she made her first of two commercial recordings of the
> Immolation Scene from _Götterdämmerung_ with Wilhelm Furtwängler and
> the Philharmonia Orch. (This is also on the CD.) Flagstad also
> recorded the Mottl orchestration in stereo with Hans Knappertsbusch
> for Decca/London. This was also reissued on CD in some kind of
> grab-bag CD with recordings by other sopranos. (Not sure of the
> catalogue number.)
She also sang them at her farewell concert at Carnegie Hall on 20 March
1955, with the Symphony of the Air conducted by Edward McArthur. The
concert was recorded and issued on LP as World Record Club T366/7 - this
presumably means there was an EMI version before it? I only have the WRC
version, in mono,
The programme included 2 excerpts from Act I of Walkure, the Immolation
Scene from Gotterdammerung, and the Prelude and Liebestod from Tristan,
as well as the Wesendock Lieder.
Flagstad sings the songs movingly, but I dislike McArthur's
contribution. Also, one track of the LPs is a mediocre Siegfried's Rhine
Journey. Goodness knows why, when Flagstad was making her farewell
appearance, they did a solely orchestral track - maybe Flagstad needed a
rest.
--
Best wishes,
David
david....@zetnet.co.uk
Visit us at www.porterfolio.com
Raymond Hall
news:20030924014654...@mb-m11.aol.com...
I have got Boulez's Ring on LP. Impressive looking black boxes, in an Opera
haul I acquired recently, of twelve operas (Bizet, Verdi, Puccini,
Beethoven, Strauss) but the Wagner looks very imposing.
Now, when I get a turntable ... do I expose myself to Wagner? Have I got the
time? Is it going to be worth while? I'll flip a coin when the time comes.
But this time, I'm keeping any vinyl, having (with hindsight) realised
sadly, that I wish I hadn't disposed of my complete vinyl collection around
1990.
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)
Ray, Taree, NSW
William Quentin (bloom)
<haxxr...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>Now, when I get a turntable ... do I expose myself to Wagner? Have I got the
>time? Is it going to be worth while?
Yes to all three. ;-)
-Billy
gggg...@gmail.com
If you can believe it, Bocelli has recorded "Der Engel".
gggg...@gmail.com
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-wagner-recordings
gggg...@gmail.com
Julia Varady: Wesendonck-Lieder by Wagner
Andy Evans
Farrell/Stokowski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KudYk6iW8y0
Crespin/ONRF/Pretre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSsLtVQ3qKE
Don't like Varady much.
gggg...@gmail.com
gggg...@gmail.com
Lawrence Kart
Nilsson/Colin Davis also has more than its moments, but the music could have been written for Farrell and Stokowski.
Larry Kart
gggg...@gmail.com
jrsnfld
Just yesterday I tried Schwanewilms/ORF/Cornelius Meister. Highly refined, slightly cool. Such a beautiful voice, beautiful recording--enough so that I didn't miss more impassioned or voluptuous versions.
--Jeff
gggg...@gmail.com
5 Gedichte fur eine Frauenstimme, "Wesendonck Lieder" (arr. F. Mottl) : No. 4. Schmerzen (Pain)
Mark Zimmer
Mark