LSJ: Petra Resonance and empty crypt

[Blooded Sand]

This came up last night.

John plays Petra resonance, with only John and Mike left in the game.
Mike has no crypt left.
What happens?

I said the card fizzles as there is no vampires to reveal, so nothing
happens, but am unsure if it should not have been everyone burns one
pool, as there is a tie for the lowest and highest revealed vamp (the
only revealed vamp ties itself).

Petra Resonance
Type: Action
Requires: Malkavian
+1 stealth action. Not usable if any Methuselah's crypt is empty.
Each Methuselah reveals the top card of his or her crypt. If there is
a tie for highest or lowest cost among the revealed cards, every
Methuselah burns 1 pool. Otherwise, the Methuselah revealing the
highest cost steals 3 pool from the Methuselah revealing the lowest
cost. All Methuselahs shuffle their crypts afterward.

[Marko Lindroos]

Have you read the card? "Not usable if any Methuselah's crypt is empty."

[Vincent]

So quoting the card may prove itself useful (next step: re-read the
card ;))

[Abdul alHazred]

> card ;))- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -

What would happen if one of the Meths controlled Paul Cordwood and
burned his last crypt card for intercept, but the action is ?

I assume sure the action would fizzle due to card text, but felt the
question fit nicely with the thread.

Paul Cordwood
Clan: Tremere antitribu
Group: 4
Capacity: 8
Disciplines: obf pre AUS DOM THA

cheers Tomas

Sabbat bishop: Once each action, Paul can remove the top card of your
crypt from the game to get +1 intercept or +1 stealth.

[floppyzedolfin]

I'm not sure it would completely fizzle.
With similar cardtext ("Only usable if [...]"), there's this ruling
about Edge Vitiation and loosing the Edge:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2a438c49077bc5fa

Similarly, if a vampire untaps from Rutor's Hand, Temptation, or Earth
Meld + Obedience, I don't think his Force of Will bleed would fizzle.

I suppose that, if Petra Resonance follows the other rulings, at
successful resolution, all Methuselahs without an empty crypt would
reveal their top crypt card.
If there is a tie for highest or lowest or a highest and a lowest
(each of these requires two vampires at least revealed), then magic
happens for those revealing. Those not revealing are unaffected.

If only 1 vampire is revealed, there is no tie. I'm not sure it would
be meaningful to have the player steal 3 pool from herself, but if
that was how things happen, then even if the only Methuselah revealing
a vampire were on 1-2-3 pool, she'd survive this (as the gaining and
loosing is simultaneous) and there would be no alteration to the game
state.

If no crypt card is revealed (it could happen, in some extremely weird
cases), then... nothing happens.

[floppyzedolfin]

On Aug 18, 11:24 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Similarly, if a vampire untaps from Rutor's Hand, Temptation, or Earth
> Meld + Obedience, I don't think his Force of Will bleed would fizzle.

Earth Meld + Ambulance, of course.

[LSJ]

> about Edge Vitiation and loosing the Edge:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2a43...

>
> Similarly, if a vampire untaps from Rutor's Hand, Temptation, or Earth
> Meld + Obedience, I don't think his Force of Will bleed would fizzle.
>
> I suppose that, if Petra Resonance follows the other rulings, at
> successful resolution, all Methuselahs without an empty crypt would
> reveal their top crypt card.
> If there is a tie for highest or lowest or a highest and a lowest
> (each of these requires two vampires at least revealed), then magic
> happens for those revealing. Those not revealing are unaffected.
>
> If only 1 vampire is revealed, there is no tie. I'm not sure it would
> be meaningful to have the player steal 3 pool from herself, but if
> that was how things happen, then even if the only Methuselah revealing
> a vampire were on 1-2-3 pool, she'd survive this (as the gaining and
> loosing is simultaneous) and there would be no alteration to the game
> state.
>
> If no crypt card is revealed (it could happen, in some extremely weird
> cases), then... nothing happens.

Sounds great.

[Blooded Sand]

I might disagree with the only one revealed option, as the vampire
revealed is both highest and lowest capacity revealed, thus tied.
There is no specification that the set requires multiple members in
this borderline scenario

[floppyzedolfin]

Oxford English Dictionary:
tie
verb
(ties, tying, tied)
[...]
4 [no object] achieve the same score or ranking as another competitor
or team:
-> Norman needed a par to tie with Nicklaus
[with object] :
-> Muir tied the score at 5-5

The other cards using the word "tie" in V:tES (Cracking the Wall,
Malkavian Game) explicitely require another Methuselah. I'd say it's
not a tie if there's only 1 person in the challenge.

[LSJ]

> tie

> 4 [no object] achieve the same score or ranking as another competitor
>

> I'd say it's not a tie if there's only 1 person in the challenge.

Correct.

The card doesn't ask if the highest = the lowest. It asks if there is
a tie for highest (or a tie for lowest).
In this case, there is not. There is a single highest (no tie). And a
single lowest (no tie).

To claim that the series <8> has a tie is to claim that the series
<4,5,8> has a tie -- there are just as many "highest" capacities in
<4,5,8> as there are in <8>.

For instance, if I play solitare (bowling, say) and achieve a score of
47 (I'm really good at bowling :-), I win (since no one scored
higher). I am not tied for the win.

[BeAst]

Even when just playing with yourself.