I like Google usenet group better than VEKN.net forums, Amenophobis
Aaron Clark
Google usenet is great because it doesn't put topics into categories.
You can scan the last 30 topics without having to click around to
different links. The Discussions page is clear and easy to read and
use. The plain white is nicer to look at than black. The VEKN.net
forum page has a bunch of different subtopics, many of which could be
easily combined. The current topics list only shows a limited number
of topics at a time.
I don't think the online community is so big we need lots of
subtopics. I'm been on RPG boards like ENWorld that yes, needed them
because of the thousands of users and multitude of products being
discussed. For VTES I think it's nice for everything to be on one
screen as much as possible. The volume of discussions is too low to
support multiple categories. The low volume makes discussions
manageable on the Google usenet group.
I would like to see VEKN used mainly for tournament schedules, which
is what I used to use the White Wolf site for, and BGG used for rules
questions, because it has to be for the time being, while general
discussions and tournament reports coming here.
Also the use of pseudonyms is more offputting to me at VEKN.net. I've
learned a lot of the pseudoyms on the Google group, and now I'm faced
with a bunch of new unfriendly (to me) pseudoyms. This is VTES - a
lot of us have met each other. What is gained from anonymity? I
appreciate it when a poster's pseudonym contains elements of their
real name or nickname. Some pseudonyms like The Lasombra are almost
universally known of course, but most others, such as Amenophobis, are
not.
Jozxyqk
> Google usenet
Please don't call it "Google usenet".
That's such an abomination of terminology I have to scream and shout.
It's "usenet" or "the newsgroup".
Google Groups is just one of many interfaces to newsgroups.
That is all.
</petpeeve>
John McGlynn
"You can scan the last 30 topics without having to click around to
different links. The Discussions page is clear and easy to read and
use. The plain white is nicer to look at than black."
You know he is talking specifically about the Google Groups interface
(which is awesome btw) right?
--
John McGlynn
cant we all just get along
Jozxyqk
> You know he is talking specifically about the Google Groups interface
> (which is awesome btw) right?
Yes, but google has nothing to do with hosting the content and I hate
when people get that confused.
If the vekn.net coders so desired, they could probably pull the usenet
feed into their own webforum interface, to seamlessly integrate it.
(and RSS feeds from BoardGameGeek, for that matter)
But that's probably not a high priority for them.
John McGlynn
This is weird, haven't we talked to Jussi about this in #vtes?
COME TO #VTES
TorranceCircle
I usually go to the vtesinla discussion board page and look at the
listed topics from usenet, vtesinla, and extrala. I do like to look at
a longer list of all recent posts too. Has anyone mentioned this to
VEKN.net admin. I think they have done a great job so far.
-Andy
Damnans
> and better than BGG, too.
>
> Google usenet is great because it doesn't put topics into categories.
> You can scan the last 30 topics without having to click around to
> different links.
You can also scan recent topics on vekn.net by clicking on "Forum" and
then on "Recent Topics":
http://www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/recent
[...]
--
Damnans
http://www.vekn.net
http://www.almadrava.net/damnans
http://www.vtes.net
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/vteshispania/
http://iuturna.sorcery.net (IRC channel: #vtes)
Peter D Bakija
> and better than BGG, too.
>
> Google usenet is great because it doesn't put topics into categories.
> You can scan the last 30 topics without having to click around to
> different links. The Discussions page is clear and easy to read and
> use. The plain white is nicer to look at than black. The VEKN.net
> forum page has a bunch of different subtopics, many of which could be
> easily combined. The current topics list only shows a limited number
> of topics at a time.
I'm completely with you. Vekn.net is not bad, as far as webforums go,
but I find a lot of the time, I just don't click on different forums
and miss a lot of discussion, just 'cause I don't want to click on a
separate forum button. Which is irrational but something that happens
with that kind of forum. I've pretty much completely given up on BGG,
as it is still very low in traffic and the ads/flashing crap never
stops being irritating.
I miss usenet. I mean, yeah, I'm a cranky old man who wants kids off
my lawn, so usenet is clearly my speed. But still, usenet strikes me
as infinitely superior to web forums. But sadly, the rest of the world
disagrees.
-Peter
librarian
@ Peter and Aaron -
First of all, for BGG, you can create a link to subscribe to all new posts
in the VTES forum, and then just click on that to see any new posts that
have happened since the last time you were there. Nice and easy. These
new posts in your subscriptions remain until you either go into the forum
thread, or mark it as read. What is really nice about this is you can mark
something as read just by the subject of the thread - ie I don't read most
deck discussions.
There is similar functionality on the VEKN site as well, the recent topics
link brings up all the most recent topics based when you last logged in,
with a little "New" tag next to them. Downside of this is that as soon as
you have looked at this page, your new tag setting resets, and all of those
posts are not "new" anymore, so if you navigate away or log off, all the
new tabs are gone, regardless of whether you have looked at the threads or
not. Honestly, I am not a fan of the VEKN interface myself, but most
traffic seems to be there.
Agree with Aaron - Black background is annoying to read. Also agree with
annoyance at learning new "nicks". At least with a lot of Usenet posts,
you not only see the nick, but the e-mail behind it, which lets you parse
who it might be in real life.
chris aka librarian
DeathInABottle
Another assenting voice: I much prefer Google Groups as a medium, and
I'm getting a little tired of drifting between BGG, VEKN, and here,
not to mention Extrala and all the other blogs. Don't get me wrong -
I'm going to keep doing it - but that's because I'm a huge nerd.
JEH
I subscribe to the RSS feeds on the Google Groups and the VEKN.net
forum.
I find it easy then to see if a subject goes by that I'm interested.
Meej
> I mean, yeah, I'm a cranky old man who wants kids off
> my lawn
Peter Bakija: Neighborhood Watch Commander.
JH
1) The categories are there for a reason. If you want to just scan the latest topics, regardless of category, you can go to http://www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/recent
2) VEKN.net forum also has an RSS feed, if you prefer to read your stuff that way. There's one feed for the whole forum and one feed for each category
Whole forum: http://www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/rss
News and Announcements: http://www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/10-news-and-announcements/rss
Generic V:TES Discussion: http://www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/5-generic-vtes-discussion/rss
... and so on ...
3) We will do something about the styles, once we get everything essential done. The Black/Red color scheme will stay, but background might be changed to white. That's actually one of the biggest concerns people have had with the site. And it might be possible to even let you choose from some predetermined color schemes in the future. No promises though. This is very low on priority right now. We want to get the tournament system ready first.
4) It would be possible to include at least RSS feeds from BGG on the site. Not certain about usenet posts. There aren't any ready components to Joomla! for retrieving usenet posts. Well, if someone serves this as an RSS feed, we could tap into that. We could put a feeds section at some point on site, where we could include many of the more common blogs and other RSS-compatible content.
5) Some people want to be anonymous when talking online. We will have that opportunity on site. People have also the opportunity to announce who they are, by either their username or signature.
Jussi Hattara
Webmaster of VEKN.net
Personal note: I also would prefer the Usenet, but people have voted with their feet. People have apparently been kept here mainly by LSJ's authority, and now that LSJ is at BGG, there's not that much incentive for those non-usenet-fond people to visit here. As for VEKN.net vs BGG... That's also where people have voted with their feet. BGG doesn't seem so friendly for VTES, whereas VEKN.net will serve the community the best we can.
Jozxyqk
> Not certain about usenet posts...Well, if someone serves this as an RSS feed, we could
> tap into that.
You could always use the google groups rss feed for the newsgroup.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml
JH
Thanks Josh. I'll store that link somewhere.
Aaron Clark
> I'll try to address here all the stuff presented in here that concerns vekn.net
>
Another reason I made my post was because the poster called
Amenophobis (whose real name I don't know) was replying to all the
significant posts here and suggesting the poster "also" post on
Vekn.net. I think people should be able to post here without being
pressured to conform to the current "party line."
I looked at the RSS feed for VEKN.net, and it's not for me.
And as for the categories on VEKN.net, yes, some of them make sense,
like "Trading". However "News and Announcements" and "Event
Announcements" could easily be combined. I think "Generic VTES
Discussion", "Deck Clinic", "Rules Questions", and likely "Event
Reports and TWD" should all be combined as these are all generic VTES
discussions to me.
I'm not sure why there is a separate Rules Questions section on the
site, since LSJ is on BGG. I'm sure this has been discussed
elsewhere, but the fact that the rules authority is on BGG and not
VEKN.net means that VEKN.net does not have the position of being the
authoritative forum for VTES.
It also looks like you don't need a Lackey section - one section for
online play would suffice I think (sorry Brandon!)
JH
> I looked at the RSS feed for VEKN.net, and it's not for me.
Are there some specific reason(s) why the RSS feed isn't for you? The RSS template could be modified, if people have ideas how-to modify it.
Amenophobis
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
But why the hostility? I mean, we all play VTES and love this game,
and some of us put more effort into it than others.
Jussi does a great job constructing and maintaining the VEKN.NET site.
It's a lot of work, and it's a great resource for players. So far,
almost 500 players are registered there, and the discussions are good.
It has way more traffic than BGG or the NG nowadays.
I acknowledge that the layout (it's a bit too dark) could be improved,
but Jussi already responded to that in this thread.
You like having no sub-categories and everything in one list. Fine.
Others do not, me included. I have been here on the NG for almost 16
years, but now that we have that excellent new website, I'm happy to
spend a lot of time there.
WW links directly to VEKN.NET from their website. Which is a boon to
new players.
What we need on VEKN.NET is more content like the draft-strategy
article, and such. It's really no major pain in the ass, to post there
*too*. It takes just about 2 minutes, at best, and a lot of players
can make good use of it and discuss it.
The VTES-community is not really huge. A common place to go to and
have discussion is good. In the past the NG served that purpose, now
the emerging VEKN.NET site should take that role. If we get new
players, they will be younger than we are, and those young people like
to have nice-looking forums with lots of options and gadgets. We
should accomodate them and move on to the "new age".
About the pseudonyms: they have *always* been here on the NG, that's
absolutely nothing new. It's the internet, and it could be very
sensible to *not* post with your real name. Some companies check the
internet for information about people looking for a job with them.
Having them find something related with "Jyhad" might lead to
questions, at best.
And as you were attacking me directly, I am the VEKNs NC for Austria,
and I'm known. You can check Lasombra's site for players on cards, to
know who I am in real life. I have never been to the US, but I have
met a lot of players in my life at ECs and tournaments.
Peter D Bakija
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
> But why the hostility?
I don't think anything in that post was remotely hostile.
It was very straight forward and pointing out what the poster thought
were pros of usenet and cons of the web forum. But nothing in it was
hostile.
> About the pseudonyms: they have *always* been here on the NG, that's
> absolutely nothing new. It's the internet, and it could be very
> sensible to *not* post with your real name. Some companies check the
> internet for information about people looking for a job with them.
> Having them find something related with "Jyhad" might lead to
> questions, at best.
No, no, his issue was mostly that they were now all *new* pseudonyms
that need to be learned all over.
> And as you were attacking me directly, I am the VEKNs NC for Austria,
Again, I'm pretty sure no one was attacking anyone. He was just
bringing up your name as it was a pseudonym that not everyone knows
who it is in real life (I have no idea who you are in real life. Most
folks who have interacted with me on in internet have at least a vague
idea of who I am in real life--i.e. they is no mystery at all as to
what my name actually is, for example).
-Peter
Aaron Clark
Well, first, unfamiliarity, which isn't an excuse. And then, from
what I can tell, the RSS allows you to read every post to the site in
order. I can see that it's okay if you are following most of the
discussions or if you plan on checking often to follow certain ones.
But you have to sort through the discussions you aren't interested
in.
The template is probably fine, but the RSS feed has a different
purpose than a straight list of current topics. I don't necessarily
want to sort through all the posts in one forum.
Aaron Clark
Well, there is a bit of hostility on my part, and I explained in a
previous post:
>"Another reason I made my post was because the poster called
>Amenophobis (whose real name I don't know) was replying to all the
>significant posts here and suggesting the poster "also" post on
>Vekn.net. I think people should be able to post here without being
>pressured to conform to the current "party line." "
I get it, Amenophobis wants to promote VEKN.net, which is not a bad
site. It makes sense to have one main English-language discussion
site for VTES. I just don't like it as well as the Google group, so I
would like to be able to go to the Google group without someone
telling everyone to go to VEKN.net instead.
If you want to make VEKN.net the premiere VTES forum, make it so good
and authoritative that everyone will want to go there naturally.
You know, I was browsing the VEKN in France forum - http://veknfrance.com/forum/
, and I thought it was a very good example of how to do category-based
forum.
The principal discussion section has only three main categories: Play
(or Game), Rules, and Tournaments (plus a fourth category, an
International Forum in English). Under Rules, posters simply title
each post with the name of the card they are asking about. Very
straightforward and easy to browse. A limited number of
administrative topics are listed farther down in subcategories.
The color scheme is an eye-pleasing silver-blue.
They don't use sidebars there. Something I didn't mention before is
that I don't like the presence of the menu sidebar in the VEKN.net
forum. VEKN.net's page feels "cramped." Other forums, like the
Google group or VEKN.France's, use the length of the entire screen for
the topic description. Forum pages that use the entire screen for the
item description are much nicer to use. And ultimately I am going to
go to forum pages that I find nice to use.
Robert Scythe
> I get it, Amenophobis wants to promote VEKN.net, which is not a bad
> site. It makes sense to have one main English-language discussion
> site for VTES. I just don't like it as well as the Google group, so I
> would like to be able to go to the Google group without someone
> telling everyone to go to VEKN.net instead.
He doesn't seem to be saying "go there instead" but 'go there also'.
However I think Amenophobis can advertise for VEKN.net just as easily
by reposting on that site and letting the OP know that that's been
done and then people may start to check VEKN.net for any other
discussion points and answers to the original posts, as opposed to
telling everybody here to post there as well.
> If you want to make VEKN.net the premiere VTES forum, make it so good
> and authoritative that everyone will want to go there naturally.
And my suggestion would be part of the process. So, Amen, don't just
tell people what to do, show by example. Like you stated "it doesn't
take that long" and you will get more people interested in checking it
out when they are not ordered to do so (even if you end it with please
and a smilie), my naturally rebellious nature has a bit of a problem
with that as well, though I have no problems with the site.
Robert Goudie
> On Mar 10, 12:24 pm, Aaron Clark <aamacl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I get it, Amenophobis wants to promote VEKN.net, which is not a bad
> > site. It makes sense to have one main English-language discussion
> > site for VTES. I just don't like it as well as the Google group, so I
> > would like to be able to go to the Google group without someone
> > telling everyone to go to VEKN.net instead.
>
> He doesn't seem to be saying "go there instead" but 'go there also'.
> However I think Amenophobis can advertise for VEKN.net just as easily
> by reposting on that site and letting the OP know that that's been
> done and then people may start to check VEKN.net for any other
> discussion points and answers to the original posts, as opposed to
> telling everybody here to post there as well.
Not a bad idea.
I still like accessing Usenet via Google but the lack of traffic here
is making VEKN.NET a necessity if you actually want more than a few
people to read and respond.
JH
> If you want to make VEKN.net the premiere VTES forum, make it so good
> and authoritative that everyone will want to go there naturally.
>
> You know, I was browsing the VEKN in France forum - http://veknfrance.com/forum/
> , and I thought it was a very good example of how to do category-based
> forum.
>
> The principal discussion section has only three main categories: Play
> (or Game), Rules, and Tournaments (plus a fourth category, an
> International Forum in English). Under Rules, posters simply title
> each post with the name of the card they are asking about. Very
> straightforward and easy to browse. A limited number of
> administrative topics are listed farther down in subcategories.
>
> The color scheme is an eye-pleasing silver-blue.
>
> They don't use sidebars there. Something I didn't mention before is
> that I don't like the presence of the menu sidebar in the VEKN.net
> forum. VEKN.net's page feels "cramped." Other forums, like the
> Google group or VEKN.France's, use the length of the entire screen for
> the topic description. Forum pages that use the entire screen for the
> item description are much nicer to use. And ultimately I am going to
> go to forum pages that I find nice to use.
We will take all feedback into account. If you post that feedback to the VEKN.net Site & Forum Feedback section it will get at least replied to and noted for the future development.
The site is still in it's infancy, and all that I can promise, is that many things will change, before we admins can be content with it.
Mark Petersen
> On Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:24:06 PM UTC+2, Aaron Clark wrote:
> > If you want to make VEKN.net the premiere VTES forum, make it so good
> > and authoritative that everyone will want to go there naturally.
>
> > , and I thought it was a very good example of how to do category-based
> > forum.
>
> > The principal discussion section has only three main categories: Play
> > (or Game), Rules, and Tournaments (plus a fourth category, an
> > International Forum in English). Under Rules, posters simply title
> > each post with the name of the card they are asking about. Very
> > straightforward and easy to browse. A limited number of
> > administrative topics are listed farther down in subcategories.
>
> > The color scheme is an eye-pleasing silver-blue.
>
> > They don't use sidebars there. Something I didn't mention before is
> > that I don't like the presence of the menu sidebar in the VEKN.net
> > forum. VEKN.net's page feels "cramped." Other forums, like the
> > Google group or VEKN.France's, use the length of the entire screen for
> > the topic description. Forum pages that use the entire screen for the
> > item description are much nicer to use. And ultimately I am going to
> > go to forum pages that I find nice to use.
>
> We will take all feedback into account. If you post that feedback to the VEKN.net Site & Forum Feedback section it will get at least replied to and noted for the future development.
>
> The site is still in it's infancy, and all that I can promise, is that many things will change, before we admins can be content with it.
It's weird to see people having reasonable discussion about
differences in opinion on the interweb. Vtes players are awesome.
-Merlin
Blooded Sand
Sob, where teeka with mah popcorn?
;)
Teeka
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
Nah, this is not popcorn worthy. I did find it very weird though how
at first, the simple honest complaints of the OP were being received/
reacted to as hostile/personal.
Besides, I've already said pretty much everything I wanted to say on
the subject. But I did really like Aaron's statement <quote> I think
people should be able to post here without being pressured to conform
to the current "party line." <quote>. Wish I'd thought of saying it
like that when I posted on the matter on BGG.