YAWP - Finally, after 10 years!

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andrew...@gmail.com

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Oct 23, 2005, 12:13:42 PM10/23/05
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Back when I was in college in the mid 90s, I made a list of everything
I wanted to do before I died. Since I'd just started playing this game
called Angband (I belive it was 2.7.x then), I whimsically added "beat
Angband without cheating death" to the list. That may seem silly, but
I'm not the only one to put "beat my favorite roguelike" on a list like

that:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/a84fa28533a99982/c085385c16e7b15b?q=%22things+to+do%22+before&rnum=10&hl=en

Well, today I finally can post a YAWP! Took me ~10 years. Granted, I
didn't play continuously during that time...usually I'd pick it up for
a few months, get a couple YASDs, and set it aside for a year or so.
This summer I decided to make a concerted effort.

Here are a few recent YASDs from my summer/fall campaign:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_thread/thread/fd91716b1511fc4c/07680bd4ce0b4731
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_thread/thread/f2274411956662de/411a71b775f61fef

This was the first time I'd ever been below 3000'.

Sherrinford the Dunadan Ranger did very well. Wielded a Short Sword
of +2 Extra Attacks until about 2500', then found Eowyn, which made
2500-3500 much easier when I started running into the nastier undeads.

Didn't find any decent bows until ~3500, when the Amrod and the
Bard...up to that point I was wielding a +9/+9 long bow! So sad for
a Ranger.

I'd say one big key to this character's win was finding lots of
reusable healing. I found three rods of healing by 3000', plus
Elessar (and Gondor later). That's five reusable heals, which allowed
me to stockpile Healing, *Healing*, and Life potions. I still ended
up using lots of potions for some of the late uniques, who'd knock me
down to the point where I'd think "well, there's some small activation
risk, which might mean seeing a tombstone, or I can drink a potion at
the risk of having to replenish my supplies...let's drink the potion"
but for creatures that wear you down slowly over time, it was great
for staying in battle vs. teleporting away. The 3.0.x rod-stacking
code really enables this behaviour. Once carrying capacity was no
longer an issue, I was carrying a stack of Teleport Other rods as well.

Another big key was finding lots of speed items. I was drowning in
rings of speed - throwing away +8s and +9s routinely. I think from
about 2500' on, I never was less than +25 perm speed, and I'd go into
battle at +35. Add in 3 shots/round for a Ranger and it made it easy
to slice through monsters. At the end, my base speed was +33 perm,
but it could have been +53 perm because I had two +10 rings of speed
sitting at home. Might have been fun to face Morgoth at +63 (yeah, I
know how the speed code works, which is why I didn't bother). As I
found perm speed items (all those little +2s that add up), I wore
rings of damage. Once I maxed out my stats, I was usually doing 5
blows @ +50 to +65 per turn.

I found most of the uniques easy. Seriously - even Sauron. Between
Eowyn and Ringil, I just walked up and melee'd most of them. I'd
detect them on the screen and then
- read a scroll of Holy Chant
- mdc to Haste Self
- mee to Shield
- med to Resistance
- mha to Heroism
and just go in and start wailing, using my Healing apparatus to get
me back to health. For some of the insane summoners, I had to use
some anti-summoning tactics...typically I'd find them, mcc (Stone to
Mud) or tunnel back into the wall, and then shoot an arrow to wake
them up. Keep shooting until they get close and then wail on them
with Eowyn to finish 'em off.

Now here's the interesting thing...I found Morgoth REALLY HARD!
Everyone always says he's anticlimactic. Not me! He was very tough.

As I said, I'd been cruising through the Uniques, and Sauron was
really easy, so I was tempted to just go in. But I spent a little
time at 4950' scumming for more potions. I had about 15 Healing, 6
*Healing*, 3 Life, and 13 Restore Mana going in. For arrows, I had
a dozen Slay Evil arrows (+11,+15), about two dozen +15,+20 Holy
Might seekers, and about four dozen assorted Acid, Venom, and other
self-braded Seekers and Mithrils. I also took four Banishment
scrolls, but completely forgot them in the heat of battle!

I found the One Ring at 4950' on the floor. I put it on just for
kicks. Having Immunity to Cold was helpful to protect potions,
though I could have worn Nenya for this. BTW, why does the One
Ring aggravate? I would think just the opposite if it makes you
invisible ;)

So I got down to 5000', polished off some snagas (sheesh, at
5000' - snagas!), and began laying out a Sea of Runes. Here comes
this dark P screaming across the screen at me - bamfed him away. By
the time I had my circle setup, I'd teleported him away several
times and I was down to about 6 Restore Mana. I was set in the middle
and here came Mr. P again - I began pelting him with my Holy Might.
He did a lot of mana storms (drank *Healing* and Life) but only
summoned a couple times. I was worried because it said he "shrugged
off the attack" which I thought meant arrows weren't effective, but
I finally saw a star disappear.

Now, I took my Long Bow of Extra Attacks and lots of Potions of
Speed to try to get an edge on Morgoth's +30...in retrospect, I
calculate each turn looked optimally like this:

(4d4 x 3) + 20 from arrows + 23 from bow + 59 from bonuses =
about 126 points average,
times four per turn is 504
20,000 / 504 = about 40 turns

Did I have (40 * 4 = ) 160 arrows? No.
If we think 50% missed, did I have 320 arrows? No.
Did I think about that going in? No.

So I took Morgoth down to about 50% and was running low on arrows.
I teleported him away, and did lots of teleport other to get to a
point where I could rush out and scoop up my arrows before he came
back. He does and summons back to back just as he gets into the
room, before I could teleport him away. Now I'm awash in Demons
and Reavers with no Runes. No choice but to teleport myself away
and start rebuilding. I got to work and teleported Mr. P away a
couple times, built a fresh Sea, and was out of restore mana
potions. Now Morgy comes again, he's healed up to back over 50%,
and he's still on a summoning spree. The entire little room I'm
in is filled with monsters. The screen is a mosaic of brightly-
colored Us, Ds, and Ls, with with a patchwork of dark Ws. I'm
shooting at Morgoth but now other creatures are getting in the way
and Runes are breaking. He's not mana-storming at all, he's just
summoning more and more. My circle is now a tattered mess
and I suddenly see "You have nothing to fire."

He's down to one red star, there's a Lesser Balrog between me and
him (PU@), my Runes are nearly gone, I'm surrounded on all sides
by Demons, and I'm out of arrows. Well I didn't come all this way
just to go back to 4950' and scum for more potions! I couldn't
teleport other the Balrog because that would teleport Morgoth as
well and if we started over somewhere else I might be in a worse
predicament. So I just started wailing on the Balrog with Ringil.
I was sucking down potions fast and furiously but the Balrog fell
quickly and then I jumped forward and tagged Morgoth. One round of
combat was all it took - he was very near death and cowering behind
a little Balrog like a girl!

He dropped his Crown and I stayed another turn or two to fight to
the point where I could snatch it (I recovered a few arrows fighting
my way there), then teleported away. I was so mana-drained that I
had to step up to 4950' to rest up to the point where I could recall
home. The dump below is before I put the Crown on and my stats went
to 18/1480 ;)

BTW, I loved the post-retirement screen. I guess it's tradition
not to describe it, but it was neat.

All in all, a fun game. Now that I have finally played it all the
way through, I would comment:

(*) 3500'-4950' is kind of pointless. There's no new monsters. I
played cautiously down to 3500', then sampled down to 4000', then
realized it was just going to be more of the same all the way to
the bottom, so I just skipped down to Sauron.

(*) This took 12.5 million turns. I could probably do the next one a
lot faster, now that I know what's coming.

(*) I think the Ranger has some definite advantages - that bow speed
is just killer. I had problems with Mages in the past because lots
of Uniques resist their best spells ("it resists fire, cold, etc.")
With a Ranger, you get all the great utility/defensive/buffing spells,
plus good melee, plus great archery. The only thing that might be
better is a Priest - with all those Heals. Oh, BTW, I tried for the
longest time not to kill Smeagol...I thought it would be funny if
Morgoth summoned him. But I accidentally bumped into him and his
frail little bag of bones exploded on Eowyn...

[Angband 3.0.6 Character Dump]

Name Sherrinford Self RB CB EB
Best
Sex Male Age 59 STR! 18/100 +1 +2 +13
18/260
Race Dunadan Height 81 INT! 18/100 +2 +2 +8
18/220
Class Ranger Weight 150 WIS! 18/100 +2 +0 +13
18/250
Title ***WINNER*** Status 32 DEX! 18/100 +2 +1 +12
18/250
HP 1002/1002 Maximize Y CON! 18/100 +3 +1 +11
18/250
SP 100/351 Preserve Y CHR! 18/100 +2 +1 +10
18/230

Level 50 Armor [44,+125] Saving Throw
Heroic
Cur Exp 15136562 Fight (+65,+59) Stealth Very
Good
Max Exp 15136562 Melee (+83,+79) Fighting
Legendary
Adv Exp ******** Shoot (+87,+23) Shooting
Legendary
MaxDepth 5000 ft Blows 5/turn Disarming
Superb
Gold 1608044 Shots 4/turn Magic Device
Heroic
Burden 318.2 lbs Perception
Fair
Speed +33 Infra 0 ft Searching
Fair

You are one of several children of a Yeoman. You are a credit to the
family. You have brown eyes, curly brown hair, and an average
complexion.


abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:...*...++.... Blind:...+.....+...
Elec:..**...++.... Confu:......+..+...
Fire:...*+..+++... Sound:......+..+...
Cold:+..*...+++... Shard:......+......
Pois:..+++..+..... Nexus:......+....+.
Fear:+..++........ Nethr:...+.........
Lite:+....+...+... Chaos:......+..+...
Dark:.....+....... Disen:..++..+......

abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:+.+...+...... Stea.:.............
Feath:..+.......... Sear.:.............
PLite:+........+... Infra:.............
Regen:+.++..+..+... Tunn.:.............
Telep:...+......... Speed:+.+++....+.+.
Invis:+.++.+...+... Blows:.............
FrAct:+.+...+...... Shots:.+...........
HLife:..+..+....... Might:.............


[Character Equipment]

a) The Long Sword 'Ringil' (4d5) (+18,+20) (+10 to speed)
It increases your speed by 10. It slays trolls, undead, and all
evil
creatures, and is especially deadly against demons. It is branded
with
frost. It provides resistance to cold, fear, and light. It is
blessed
by the gods, slows your metabolism, lights the dungeon around you,
and
speeds your regeneration. It grants you immunity to paralysis and
the
ability to see invisible things. It activates for frost ball (100)
every 40 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
b) a Long Bow of Extra Shots (x3) (+22,+23) (+1)
It increases your shooting speed by 1.

*** This was a very good bow, which I found at 4950'.
Would have been even better if it was +2 shots ;)

c) The Ring of Power 'Vilya' (+10,+10) (+3)
It increases all your stats by 3. It increases your speed by 3. It
provides immunity to lightning. It provides resistance to poison,
disenchantment, and life draining. It sustains your strength,
dexterity, and constitution. It slows your metabolism, makes you
fall
like a feather, and speeds your regeneration. It grants you
immunity
to paralysis and the ability to see invisible things. It activates
for
large lightning ball (250) every 20+d20 turns. It cannot be harmed
by
the elements.
d) The Ring of Power 'The One Ring' (+15,+15) (+5) {cursed}
It increases all your stats by 5. It increases your speed by 5. It
provides immunity to acid, lightning, fire, and cold. It provides
resistance to poison, fear, blindness, nether, and disenchantment.
It
sustains all your stats. It speeds your regeneration. It grants
you
the power of telepathy and the ability to see invisible things, but
it
also aggravates creatures around you, drains experience, and is
permanently cursed. It activates for bizarre things every 30+d30
turns.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
e) The Elfstone 'Elessar' (+7,+7) [+10] (+2) (charging)
It increases your strength, wisdom, and charisma by 2. It increases
your speed by 2. It provides resistance to fire, poison, and fear.
It
activates for heal (500) every 200 turns. It cannot be harmed by
the
elements.
f) The Arkenstone of Thrain
It provides resistance to light, dark, and life draining. It lights
the dungeon around you. It grants you the ability to see invisible
things. It activates for detection every 30+d30 turns. It cannot
be
harmed by the elements.
g) The Balance Dragon Scale Mail 'Mediator' (-4) [30,+25]
It provides resistance to confusion, sound, shards, nexus, chaos,
and
disenchantment. It slows your metabolism and speeds your
regeneration.
It grants you immunity to paralysis, but it also aggravates
creatures
around you. It activates for star ball (150) every 50 turns. It
cannot be harmed by the elements.

*** I found of the major armors - Arvedui, Rohirrim, Isildur, etc.
I wore Balance DSM for a long time and then found this at 4950',
which was slightly better enchanted, and for Morgy I didn't care
about aggrevation. Never found a PDSM.

h) The Cloak 'Colluin' [1,+8]
It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, and poison.
It
activates for resistance (20+d20 turns) every 111 turns. It cannot
be
harmed by the elements.
i) The Large Metal Shield of Anarion [5,+20]
It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, and cold. It
sustains
all your stats. It cannot be harmed by the elements.

*** Used Thorin for the longest time - switched to this for the final
battle because of AC. Didn't really need its sustains since I wore

the One Ring.

j) The Golden Crown of Gondor [0,+14] (+3)
It increases your strength, wisdom, and constitution by 3. It
increases your speed by 3. It provides resistance to fire, cold,
light,
blindness, confusion, sound, and chaos. It lights the dungeon
around
you and speeds your regeneration. It grants you the ability to see
invisible things. It activates for heal (500) every 250 turns. It
cannot be harmed by the elements.
k) The Set of Cesti of Fingolfin (+7,+7) [5,+17] (+4)
It increases your dexterity by 4. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
It might have hidden powers.

*** Sheesh, didn't realize I'd never *ID'd* this.

l) The Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Feanor [3,+16] (+15)
It increases your speed by 15. It provides resistance to nexus. It
activates for haste self (20+d20 turns) every 200 turns. It cannot
be
harmed by the elements.

*** Major speed boost - let me get rid of rings of speed and put
on rings of damage and later the power rings.


[Character Inventory]

a) 7 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m2@b2!d!d!t!t!v!v}
b) 8 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2@b2!d!d!t!t!v!v}
c) 7 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions]
{@m3@b3!d!d!t!t!v!v, 9}
d) 8 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations]
{@m4@b4!d!d!t!t!v!v, 50% o}
e) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Resistances of Scarabtarices]
{@m5@b5!d!d!t!t!v!v}
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
f) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Raal's Tome of Destruction]
{@m6@b6!d!d!t!t!v!v}
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
g) 5 Books of Magic Spells [Mordenkainen's Escapes]
{@m7@b7!d!d!t!t!v!v}
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
h) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Tenser's Transformations]
{@m8@b8!d!d!t!t!v!v}
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
i) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Kelek's Grimoire of Power]
{@m9@b9!d!d!t!t!v!v}
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
j) 34 Chartreuse Potions of Speed
k) 14 Bubbling Potions of Healing
l) 3 Green Speckled Potions of *Healing*

*** Should have had more potions! Next time I won't go without a lot
more Restore Mana and a lot more Life and *Healing*

m) 27 Scrolls titled "ornmic fa" of Holy Chant {25% off}
n) 4 Scrolls titled "orgrog nelgab" of Banishment
o) 3 Pewter Rods of Healing (2 charging)
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
p) a Cast Iron Rod of Restoration
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
q) 7 Nickel-Plated Rods of Teleport Other
r) 4 Rosewood Staffs of Teleportation (9 charges)

*** The staff/rod-stacking code really made this character sing.
A lot of uniques were easy because I had 7 Teleport Others
ready to get rid of anything summoned, and a bunch of non-
potion healing. Also, with stacked Staves of Teleportation,
you can save a slot because you don't need to carry Scrolls.

s) 3 Arrows of Slay Evil (1d4) (+11,+15)
It slays all evil creatures.

*** Picked up as I reached for the crown.


[Home Inventory]

a) 24 Scrolls titled "wergpay khore" of *Identify* {10% off}
b) 2 Scrolls titled "od nis pood" of Mass Banishment
c) 2 Granite Rings of Damage (+13)
d) 2 Tiger Eye Rings of Speed (+10)
It increases your speed by 10.
e) The Ring of Tulkas (+4)
It increases your strength, dexterity, and constitution by 4. It
cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have hidden powers.
f) The Ring of Power 'Narya' (+6,+6) (+1)
It increases all your stats by 1. It increases your speed by 1. It
provides immunity to fire. It provides resistance to fear and
nether.
It sustains your strength, wisdom, constitution, and charisma. It
slows your metabolism and speeds your regeneration. It grants you
immunity to paralysis and the ability to see invisible things. It
activates for large fire ball (120) every 20+d20 turns. It cannot
be
harmed by the elements.
g) The Ring of Power 'Nenya' (+8,+8) (+2)
It increases all your stats by 2. It increases your speed by 2. It
cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have hidden powers.
h) Balance Dragon Scale Mail (-2) [30,+17]
It provides resistance to sound, shards, chaos, and disenchantment.
It
activates for breathe balance (250) every 300+d300 turns. It cannot
be
harmed by the elements.
i) The Full Plate Armour of Isildur [25,+22] (+1)
It increases your constitution by 1. It provides resistance to
acid,
lightning, fire, cold, confusion, sound, and nexus. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
j) The Small Metal Shield of Thorin [3,+22] (+4)
It increases your strength and constitution by 4. It provides
immunity
to acid. It provides resistance to fear, sound, and chaos. It
grants
you immunity to paralysis. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
k) The Large Leather Shield of Celegorm [4,+17]
It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, light, and
dark.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
l) The Jewel Encrusted Crown of Numenor [0,+14] (+3)
It increases your intelligence, dexterity, and charisma by 3. It
increases your searching and speed by 3. It provides resistance to
cold, light, dark, blindness, sound, and shards. It lights the
dungeon
around you. It grants you immunity to paralysis and the ability to
see
invisible things. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
m) The Metal Cap of Celebrimbor [3,+18] (+3 to searching)
It increases your intelligence, dexterity, and charisma by 3. It
increases your searching by 3. It cannot be harmed by the elements.

It might have hidden powers.
n) The Iron Helm of Dor-Lomin [5,+20] (+4)
It increases your strength, dexterity, and constitution by 4. It
cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have hidden powers.
o) The Pair of Metal Shod Boots of Thror [6,+18] (+3)
It increases your strength and constitution by 3. It increases your

speed by 3. It provides resistance to fear. It cannot be harmed by
the elements.
p) The Bastard Sword of Eowyn (4d4) (+11,+15) (+4 to stealth)
It increases your strength and charisma by 4. It increases your
stealth and speed by 4. It slays animals, giants, and all evil
creatures, and is especially deadly against undead. It provides
resistance to cold, fear, dark, and nether. It cannot be harmed by
the
elements.

*** A special place in my heart for this guy. Slays evil and
*Slays* undead, plus it boosts stealth. Awesome blade for
mid-game.

q) The Long Bow of Bard (x3) (+6,+10) (+2)
It increases your dexterity by 2. It increases your speed and
shooting
power by 2. It grants you immunity to paralysis. It cannot be
harmed
by the elements.

*** Look how sad the Bard got! Too many disenchants.

r) a Long Bow of Extra Might (x3) (+14,+26) (+1)
It increases your shooting power by 1.
s) a Long Bow of Power (x3) (+19,+22)
t) a Long Bow of Power (x3) (+16,+23)

*** Found all of these at 4950', in back-to-back-to-back levels.
It was a tossup between Extra Shots and Extra Might for Morgy.

u) The Light Crossbow 'Cubragol' (x3) (+10,+14) (+10)
It increases your speed by 10. It cannot be harmed by the elements.

It might have hidden powers.
v) 21 Arrows of Slay Evil (1d4) (+8,+10)
It slays all evil creatures.


[Options]

Adult: Allow purchase of stats using points : yes (adult_point_based)
Adult: Allow specification of minimal stats : no (adult_auto_roller)
Adult: Maximize effect of race/class bonuses : yes (adult_maximize)
Adult: Preserve artifacts when leaving level : yes (adult_preserve)
Adult: Restrict the use of stairs/recall : no (adult_ironman)
Adult: Restrict the use of stores/home : no (adult_no_stores)
Adult: Restrict creation of artifacts : no (adult_no_artifacts)
Adult: Randomize some of the artifacts (beta): no
(adult_rand_artifacts)
Adult: Don't stack objects on the floor : no (adult_no_stacking)
Score: Peek into object creation : yes (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation : yes (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation : yes (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else : yes (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info : yes (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death : no (score_live)

pete mack

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Oct 23, 2005, 2:09:42 PM10/23/05
to

andrew...@gmail.com wrote:
> Back when I was in college in the mid 90s, I made a list of everything
> I wanted to do before I died. Since I'd just started playing this game
> called Angband (I belive it was 2.7.x then), I whimsically added "beat
> Angband without cheating death" to the list. That may seem silly, but
> I'm not the only one to put "beat my favorite roguelike" on a list like
>

Congrats! And the fight with Morgoth would have been a lot easier if
you'd used those last two scrolls of Mass Banishment.

About using all your mana: I'm not convinced that Rune of Protection
is better than Phase Door, in vanilla at least.


For future reference: you chose the wrong bow.

> b) a Long Bow of Extra Shots (x3) (+22,+23) (+1)
> It increases your shooting speed by 1.
>
> *** This was a very good bow, which I found at 4950'.
> Would have been even better if it was +2 shots ;)

1152 damage/round with Holy Might arrows.

> q) The Long Bow of Bard (x3) (+6,+10) (+2)
> It increases your dexterity by 2. It increases your speed and

Ouch. Only 1050 damage/round

> r) a Long Bow of Extra Might (x3) (+14,+26) (+1)
> It increases your shooting power by 1.

This is a better bow. It does an extra 3*4*3 damage per round and uses
25% fewer arrows. The decrease in accuracy doesn't mean much to a
ranger, and you can overcome it using Superhero along with the spells
you were using.

3*4*(26+4*2.5+15)*2 = 1224 damage/round (with holy might)

R. Dan Henry

unread,
Oct 24, 2005, 2:35:09 AM10/24/05
to
On 23 Oct 2005 09:13:42 -0700, andrew...@gmail.com wrote:

>Back when I was in college in the mid 90s, I made a list of everything
>I wanted to do before I died. Since I'd just started playing this game
>called Angband (I belive it was 2.7.x then), I whimsically added "beat
>Angband without cheating death" to the list. That may seem silly, but
>I'm not the only one to put "beat my favorite roguelike" on a list like
>
>that:
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/a84fa28533a99982/c085385c16e7b15b?q=%22things+to+do%22+before&rnum=10&hl=en
>
>Well, today I finally can post a YAWP! Took me ~10 years.

Congratulations! Now you can die happy.

--
R. Dan Henry
danh...@inreach.com

David

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Oct 24, 2005, 4:19:46 AM10/24/05
to
Nice work! I long for my first clean win, playing on off for 10
years... recently convertet to ToME.

Werner Bär

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Oct 24, 2005, 1:17:00 PM10/24/05
to

<andrew...@gmail.com> schrieb...

> but for creatures that wear you down slowly over time, it was great
> for staying in battle vs. teleporting away. The 3.0.x rod-stacking
> code really enables this behaviour.

Not really.
You could have stacks of rods in your inventory before.
They only needed several slots while recharging.
So no problem, unless you already filled your inventory completely
with loot (which is unusual deep down).
And then, the rod drops to the floor, which still isn't a problem
as long as you don't monsters with mana storm (yours or theirs)

> I also took four Banishment
> scrolls, but completely forgot them in the heat of battle!

That was what made your final fight quite hard.
And much worse, you forgot your srcolls of Mass Banishment at home.

> BTW, why does the One
> Ring aggravate? I would think just the opposite if it makes you
> invisible ;)

The monsters sense that the ring is near, and awake. Sounds reasonable
to me.

> So I got down to 5000', polished off some snagas (sheesh, at
> 5000' - snagas!), and began laying out a Sea of Runes.

Is this worth the effort?
I recently had a mage win, and didn't bother with runes at all.
But my mana storms are able to hit Morgoth behind his summons.

> I couldn't
> teleport other the Balrog because that would teleport Morgoth as
> well and if we started over somewhere else I might be in a worse
> predicament.

Why?
Most probbly there aren't that much demons in other places.
Ooops, i forgot, you teleportet away lots of stuff.

Well, nontheless, i would have teleported Morgoth away, and then
teleported around myself until i find a nice spot.
Morgoth will find me there.

> (*) I think the Ranger has some definite advantages - that bow speed
> is just killer. I had problems with Mages in the past because lots
> of Uniques resist their best spells ("it resists fire, cold, etc.")

THe best spell of a mage is mana storm. Nothing resists.
With my my pre-3.0 pure spellcaster mages, i had to avoid about a dozen
uniques until i found Raals. Now in 3.x, you can kill most monsters
with rift or some other nice spells (what was the one that does
sound damage?)

> Oh, BTW, I tried for the
> longest time not to kill Smeagol...I thought it would be funny if
> Morgoth summoned him.

If you play a character with ball attacks (mage, priest), better
let some orc or troll uniques alive. They have big non-dangerous
escorts.

> b) a Long Bow of Extra Shots (x3) (+22,+23) (+1)
> It increases your shooting speed by 1.
>
> *** This was a very good bow, which I found at 4950'.
> Would have been even better if it was +2 shots ;)

> [Character Inventory]


>
> k) 14 Bubbling Potions of Healing
> l) 3 Green Speckled Potions of *Healing*
>
> *** Should have had more potions! Next time I won't go without a lot
> more Restore Mana and a lot more Life and *Healing*

More than enough for the end of the battle.

Werner.


Timo Pietilä

unread,
Oct 25, 2005, 3:33:56 AM10/25/05
to
Werner Bär wrote:
>
> <andrew...@gmail.com> schrieb...

>> BTW, why does the One
>> Ring aggravate? I would think just the opposite if it makes you
>> invisible ;)
>
> The monsters sense that the ring is near, and awake. Sounds reasonable
> to me.

Invisibles like ringwraiths could see the wearer, but mortals could not.
maybe "aggravate undead".

Timo Pietilä

Pasi 'donalde' Vartiainen

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Oct 25, 2005, 1:36:37 PM10/25/05
to

If I remember correctly, also Tom Bombadil could see wearer of One ring.
Tom was either Maia or Vala. Balrogs were also Maia's before Morgoth
corrupted them. So, maybe high level demons and undead should 'see'
wearer. Infravision doesn't help to see wearer, since in Hobbit Bilbo
walked pass of guarding dwarf. Also, orc's couldn't see Isildur, while
he was wearing One ring.

- donalde -

camlost

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Oct 25, 2005, 2:31:51 PM10/25/05
to

Tom Bombadil identity is unknown; there is no great body of evidence to
support that he is a Valar or Maiar. Some people suspect he's a Mother
Nature or Father Time figure, but it's all pretty much supposition.

As for game mechanics, aggravation makes some sense; the ring does
advertise it's presence, and although it makes mortals invisible,
vanilla doesn't implement that feature -- TOME and Sangband (among
others) do.

R. Dan Henry

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Oct 25, 2005, 8:38:32 PM10/25/05
to

Well, for realism, the invisibility/wraithing effect of the rings of
power appears to only effect humans (which includes halflings). It also
is quite possible that someone who mastered the One enough to get the
nifty effects bestowed in Angband would have gained control of the whole
invisibility thing. Point is, in Angband, the only one who counts is the
controlling will of the entire inhabiting force (minus a few uberminions
like Sauron and the Balrogs who won't be fooled by invisibility rings),
Morgoth. He'll detect your fancy artifact and he'll set his forces on
you.

Timo Pietilä

unread,
Oct 26, 2005, 3:25:46 AM10/26/05
to
camlost wrote:
>
> Tom Bombadil identity is unknown; there is no great body of evidence to
> support that he is a Valar or Maiar. Some people suspect he's a Mother
> Nature or Father Time figure, but it's all pretty much supposition.

There are few clues.

First there is Gandalfs note that he is not reliable guardian and Sauron
could be able to destroy him. That rules out Valar and Eru. So he could
be maia.

Second clue comes from Tom himself. He told story to hobbits that he
were there _before_ Dark Lord came from _outside_. As for that I suggest
that he was talking about Melkor/Morgoth, not Sauron. That would mean
that he was there before Ainur came to world.

Only solution I can figure out is that he is very powerful spirit of
nature that came to be immediately when Eru created world based on song
Ainur made in beginning of time. That he existed before Valar came down
into earth.

Timo Pietilä

Mondkalb

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Oct 26, 2005, 3:42:41 AM10/26/05
to

Timo Pietilä schrieb:

There ist a very good article in the Encyclopedia of Arda:
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp?url=http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/t/tombombadil.html

So there may be no final answer to this question.

I think he ist just a beloved charakter from Tolkien's earlier writings
who made it finally into the LOTR.

Julian Lighton

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Oct 26, 2005, 3:45:14 AM10/26/05
to
In article <djnb1q$1h$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>,

Timo Pietilä <timo.p...@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>camlost wrote:
>> Tom Bombadil identity is unknown; there is no great body of evidence to
>> support that he is a Valar or Maiar. Some people suspect he's a Mother
>> Nature or Father Time figure, but it's all pretty much supposition.
>
>There are few clues.
>
>First there is Gandalfs note that he is not reliable guardian and Sauron
>could be able to destroy him. That rules out Valar and Eru.

Assuming that Gandalf is correct in what he believes of Tom.

>So he could
>be maia.
>
>Second clue comes from Tom himself. He told story to hobbits that he
>were there _before_ Dark Lord came from _outside_. As for that I suggest
>that he was talking about Melkor/Morgoth, not Sauron. That would mean
>that he was there before Ainur came to world.
>
>Only solution I can figure out is that he is very powerful spirit of
>nature that came to be immediately when Eru created world based on song
>Ainur made in beginning of time. That he existed before Valar came down
>into earth.

Nature spirits really don't fit too well in the cosmology.

Not that Tom's the only thing that doesn't seem to have an
origin. Ungoliant is another.

And I was never too sure where hobbits came from.
--
Julian Lighton jl...@fragment.com
/* You are not expected to understand this. */

Timo Pietilä

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Oct 26, 2005, 4:15:52 AM10/26/05
to
Julian Lighton wrote:
> In article <djnb1q$1h$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>,
> Timo Pietilä <timo.p...@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
>>camlost wrote:
>>
>>>Tom Bombadil identity is unknown; there is no great body of evidence to

>>First there is Gandalfs note that he is not reliable guardian and Sauron

>>could be able to destroy him. That rules out Valar and Eru.
>
> Assuming that Gandalf is correct in what he believes of Tom.

That's right. Gandalf does seem to know Tom quite well, though.

>>Only solution I can figure out is that he is very powerful spirit of
>>nature that came to be immediately when Eru created world based on song
>>Ainur made in beginning of time. That he existed before Valar came down
>>into earth.
>
> Nature spirits really don't fit too well in the cosmology.

There are few things that suggest that certain places/unliving things
have powers and are aware of surroundings. Tolkien world is more "alive"
than real world.

Tom OTOH has humanoid form, which doesn't fit in this. He certainly is
enigma.

> Not that Tom's the only thing that doesn't seem to have an
> origin. Ungoliant is another.

I'm pretty sure Ungoliant was maia. Just not very "humankind". But that
is only quess.

> And I was never too sure where hobbits came from.

They are probably humans. Hobbits are mortals with very similar life
span as humans. So my guess is that they were humans, just much smaller
than average human.

Timo Pietilä

Chris Kern

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Oct 26, 2005, 8:06:37 AM10/26/05
to
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:45:14 -0000, jl...@fragment.com (Julian Lighton)
posted the following:

>Nature spirits really don't fit too well in the cosmology.

Tom Bombadil was created long before even the Hobbit was written -- he
was inserted into LotR during a time when JRRT had very little idea of
what the story was going to be about, and he was just inserting
"adventures" in there that didn't really fit into the big picture. He
said in a later letter that Tom did not fit with the world and that he
remained in the story because he represented something important to
Tolkien. Much earlier letters suggest that this "something" is the
vanishing rural countryside of England.

>Not that Tom's the only thing that doesn't seem to have an
>origin. Ungoliant is another.

How about the "nameless things" that "gnaw" the world.

-Chris

R. Dan Henry

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Oct 26, 2005, 12:47:45 PM10/26/05
to
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:45:14 -0000, jl...@fragment.com (Julian Lighton)
wrote:

>And I was never too sure where hobbits came from.

They're just another branch of humanity. Probably deliberately meant by
Eru as ring-bearers. They can be traced back to the vales of the Anduin,
but whether they originated there or migrated from some earlier home
already in halfling form is unknown.

Nick McConnell

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Oct 26, 2005, 7:28:54 PM10/26/05
to
On 2005-10-26 10:15:52, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Timo_Pietil�?=
<timo.p...@helsinki.fi> wrote:

> Julian Lighton wrote:

> > Nature spirits really don't fit too well in the cosmology.
>
> There are few things that suggest that certain places/unliving things
> have powers and are aware of surroundings. Tolkien world is more "alive"
> than real world.

Yes, indeed. I see the entire Silmarillion/LotR/other writings as the
elvish-human tradition of middle-earth; there are certainly hints throughout
that other powers and beings existed, but were not central to the
narrative.

So Tom Bombadil seems not quite to fit in the tradition as it's presented,
but maybe that's because it's a fairly narrow path through a wide world.

Nick.

ulrich...@yahoo.com

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Oct 26, 2005, 8:15:51 PM10/26/05
to
> So Tom Bombadil seems not quite to fit in the tradition as it's presented,
> but maybe that's because it's a fairly narrow path through a wide world.

If I recall correctly, the Elves called Tom "Oldest and Fatherless".
I'm not sure what that makes him other than hard to categorize though.

That's a good point about the narrow view of a wide world though. LOTR
and The Hobbit are all pretty much from a hobbit's vantage point. The
Silmarilian would be more from an Elven perspective.

I've also read theories that just as The One had no effect on Tom, Tom
could not wield the power of the ring. (Can't remember if that came
from Gandalf, or just someone theorizing on Middle Earth.) I think
that was a large part of his unreliability as a gaurdian of the ring.
He'd be as likely to leave it ungaurded or simply discard it as he
would be to protect it.

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