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50 years in the making

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Tom Kunich

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Jan 9, 2022, 1:27:18 PM1/9/22
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I was blessed by God to be at the center of the technical revolution. I did everything from work on the immediate forerunner of the Internet (even Jay showed you that) to personally design and program almost every modern medical instrument for everything from the detection of blood contaminated with HIV to almost every medical device that would make it impossible for you to be admitted to a hospital without using either the instruments I designed and/or programmed to virtually ALL of the detection devices of the modern world.

While the haters who have accomplished absolutely nothing continue to complain about that and say absolutely anything in denial, that is what has happened.

Am I bragging about this? Well, now that depends upon your viewpoint doesn't it. Is it bragging to say I did something? Is it bragging to say that because I did these things I have a far greater understanding of science than say, someone that is a book keeper? Or a college teacher whose knowledge hasn't advance whatsoever since he graduated?

Is it bragging to say I raced sailboats down the Pacific Coast and observed the dolphin dancing on the bow waves or a whale breaching entirely out of the water?

Perhaps it is bragging to say that I raced motorcycles and was the perennial 3rd place?

Is it bragging to say I serve in my country's military and was involved in a war that while MOST of us considered ill conceived and perhaps even illegal, was nevertheless a duty to my country? Would it have been better to stand aside and allow Ho Chi Minh to march through South Vietnam and murder all of the occupants as they eventually did?

Do you suppose that it is bragging to watch people here make racist claims about white people (all of whom are making these claims are white people themselves) when it was these same white people removed the chains of slavery? Can these same people suggest one civilization in history that didn't practice the fault of slavery? Is but one to be blamed?

People with absolute ignorance of history are perfectly willing here to pretend to know it. People with absolute ignorance of science are telling us that engineering isn't the application of practical science at its highest level.

As I say, I feel blessed to have been in one of the most active growths of science and technology in history and if there are those here so jealous of that fact that they want to deny it, do right ahead. It means nothing to me.

Of course we could always go with Russell's claim that burning coal caused man-made global warning. There you have the science of a bookkeeper.

Lou Holtman

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Jan 9, 2022, 1:51:49 PM1/9/22
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The ‘richest’ people are those who are content. You don’t have to be a Nobel prize winner for that.

Lou

Ralph Barone

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Jan 9, 2022, 2:01:17 PM1/9/22
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There’s a man who’s going to die happy.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 9, 2022, 5:45:00 PM1/9/22
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That indeed is the truth. Not to mention that after returning from the almost dead, it puts an entire light back on what you have done in your life. Although I can't say that I am a practicing Catholic, I can say that I never for a moment lost my faith. I think that perhaps coming from a close family helps. The belief that you have to impress every person in your family keeps you on the straight and narrow.

Mark Cleary

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Jan 9, 2022, 5:50:46 PM1/9/22
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Tom return to the Church and the sacraments it would be good for you and the Church.
Deacon Mark ( a catholic deacon too.)

Tom Kunich

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Jan 9, 2022, 6:00:27 PM1/9/22
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Deacon - I'm afraid that locally we have a monastery wherein I used to see each priest with a young boy. I know that is not what the church stands for but it is what it put up with. And traveling in France I was told that in order to gain office in the church for a very long time you had to be royalty. While many took their offices and their vows of chastity and poverty seriously, too many used their offices for the opposite. The world and man tends to corrupt all it touches.

ritzann...@gmail.com

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Jan 10, 2022, 1:43:29 AM1/10/22
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On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:27:18 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Of course we could always go with Russell's claim that burning coal caused man-made global warning. There you have the science of a bookkeeper.

Burning coal and oil/gasoline/diesel causes CO2 to be produced. Burning anything composed of carbon causes CO2 to be produced. Oxygen in the air gets combined with the carbon in the material being burned by the heat of the flames. CO2 is produced. CO2 is a reflector, insulator, for heat. The CO2 floats up into the sky and gets trapped in the atmosphere. It doesn't float away into outer space. CO2 stays up in the sky around the earth. The sun heats up the earth every day. And that heat gets trapped on the earth by the atmosphere full of CO2. Causing the earth to heat up over time. And melt the polar ice caps and glaciers.

Tommy, I know you are not educated at all. But it is a fairly simple and straight forward concept to understand. But some people think the earth is flat. Some people think Bigfoot is roaming around. Some people think there is a Loch Ness monster. Some people think Trump won.

sms

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Jan 10, 2022, 11:10:53 AM1/10/22
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On 1/9/2022 10:43 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> Tommy, I know you are not educated at all. But it is a fairly simple and straight forward concept to understand. But some people think the earth is flat. Some people think Bigfoot is roaming around. Some people think there is a Loch Ness monster. Some people think Trump won.

“Why look for conspiracy when stupidity can explain so much.” — Johann
Wolfgang von Goethe

“The good thing about Science is that it's true whether or not you
believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

sms

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Jan 10, 2022, 11:15:59 AM1/10/22
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On 1/9/2022 10:43 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
"Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys
the pig."

Tom Kunich

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Jan 10, 2022, 11:18:35 AM1/10/22
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We realize that the bookkeeper thinks that he is going to give a lesson in chemistry to someone that has worked with it. But I suggest you go back to your computer spread sheet. At least that is something that you can understand since you have no idea where pencils and pens come from and no idea how paper is made.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 10, 2022, 11:24:01 AM1/10/22
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Scharf, what do you know about science? When have you ever worked in it? I have 50 years in science with a list if accomplishments far beyond your thumb twiddling "F's" in college. Tell me you little nobody - what requires more education, 50 years of progressive accomplishment or you trying to get reelected for public office and failing miserably?

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 10, 2022, 12:45:37 PM1/10/22
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no narcissism there....

"I do not nor ever had a sense of self importance." - Tom Kunich

Tom Kunich

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Jan 10, 2022, 6:11:08 PM1/10/22
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Only a fool cold interpret that as anything other than it was. I was a project manager on many jobs. Seems like you're the only one that ever thought of me as narcissistic. Your type seem to see in others what you see when you look in a mirror.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 10, 2022, 6:14:18 PM1/10/22
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By the way - where is your proof that there is a covid-19 above average death rate? Or does your quiet sense of self worth prevent you from showing me up?

ritzann...@gmail.com

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Jan 10, 2022, 7:05:22 PM1/10/22
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On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 5:14:18 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> By the way - where is your proof that there is a covid-19 above average death rate? Or does your quiet sense of self worth prevent you from showing me up?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db427.htm
Key findings
Data from the National Vital Statistics System
Life expectancy for the U.S. population in 2020 was 77.0 years, a decrease of 1.8 years from 2019.
The age-adjusted death rate increased by 16.8% from 715.2 deaths per 100,000 standard population in 2019 to 835.4 in 2020.
Age-specific death rates increased from 2019 to 2020 for each age group 15 years and over.
Nine of the 10 leading causes of death in 2020 remained the same as in 2019, although 5 causes switched rank; heart disease and cancer remained the top 2 leading causes, and COVID-19 became the third leading cause of death in 2020.
The infant mortality rate decreased 2.9% in 2020 from 2019 to a record low of 541.9 infant deaths per 100,000 live births.

16.8% increase in deaths from 2019 to 2020 seems like an "above average death rate" to me. With 330 million people in the USA, you have to kill a LOT of extra people to move the rate by 16.8%. And that is what Covid 19 did. Kill lots of people in 2020 and 2021. Likely to kill lots more in 2022 too. The above website is from the CDC, Center for Disease Control. USA Federal Government. I recall you lauded them in a prior post. So they are a trustworthy source for data.

But at least we did decrease the number of babies dying in 2020 compared to 2019. Yeah!!!!! The USA has always been horrible for infant morbidity compared to Europe and every other modern, advanced civilization in the world. Maybe we are improving things.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 10, 2022, 7:32:10 PM1/10/22
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The lowly bookkeeper wants to explain to us about covid-19. Imagine him thinking that when you have a group of chair sitters given false data that they aren't going to reach false conclusions. Why do you think it is that government employees that are NOT attending patients say one thing and those that are are saying something else? In the meantime, the people that are actually pulling the real statistics out of the air are telling us something else entirely.

John B.

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Jan 10, 2022, 7:42:07 PM1/10/22
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My Goodness... A bloke talks about the Loch Ness Monster and Tommy
refutes this by saying "You no idea where pencils and pens come from".
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B.

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Jan 10, 2022, 7:46:44 PM1/10/22
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Schizophrenia is a severe mental disorder which is characterized by a
wide range of unusual behaviors: hearing voices (hallucinations) and
distorted or false perception, often bizarre beliefs.
Two of the most common symptoms are:
Delusions, beliefs that can persist even after they have been proved
to be false or unreasonable.
Disorganized thinking: Sometimes, the person is unable to think
clearly.
Their talk appears illogical, irrelevant or disconnected and this
makes
no logical sense to people around them.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 10, 2022, 7:54:14 PM1/10/22
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Not that you would EVER learn the error of your ways. But all it took was to look at that posting of yours to see it was a false conclusion. The normal average death rates for the US citizen population is 2.8 million. An increase of 85 deaths per 100,000 population would be 2,380. Now that just happens to be below the statistical relevance in a population of 2.8 million (85 thousandths of one percent) And for 2020, Fauci and the New York Times claimed a death rate of 400,000 people.

Since as a bookkeeper you are so familiar with number perhaps you can explain that little discrepancy?

Tell me - if you had a discrepancy of $2380 in $2.8 million. Would you start screaming theft or would you look for a mis-entry?

ritzann...@gmail.com

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Jan 10, 2022, 8:05:32 PM1/10/22
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Tommy boy, below is my recent post, reply, from the "Staying strong in old age" thread. Its right next to this thread in the list.


russell...@yahoo.com's profile photo
russell...@yahoo.com
6:35 PM (24 minutes ago)
to
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/deaths.htm
Mortality in the United States, 2020
Deaths 3,383,729
Age-adjusted death rate 835.4
Life expectancy 77.0

https://www.prb.org/usdata/indicator/deaths/chart/ (PRB is Population Reference Bureau)
Go down this page a little bit and you come to the total number of people dying in the USA and every state from 2013 to 2019. There is an increase of 20-30 thousand every year. Makes sense because the USA population increases by thousands every year. So a few thousand extra die every year too. Logical to have more deaths with more total population. But then 2020 comes along and you have an extra 500,000 dead people. 2,854,838 dead people in 2019 to 3,383,729 dead people in 2020. 528,891 extra dead people in 2020.

Tommy boy, when you have an EXTRA 528 thousand dead people in 2020, it means something is happening. Covid-19 maybe?


Only you would think an extra 528 thousand dead people in one year is a mis-entry. I suspect this is why you lost all your money during the Obama stock market escalation bonanza. You're a financial genius.

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 11, 2022, 6:02:14 AM1/11/22
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No, the fact that I have a rich full life in which camping out on RBT for your nonesense and lies keeps me from responding right away. And again, because it takes multiple hits upside his head before he realize he's being hit:
Enter yet another of tommy's character flaws - willful misrepresentation of facts (i.e, a fucking liar): If you were honest about presenting excess death data, you would have checked the button for "Excess deaths with and without COVID-19", not "Weekly Number of Deaths by Cause Group". Then it would be plain to anyone reading that the number of excess deaths due to covid 19 - very clearly represented by the blue columns - dramatically exceeds the upper bounds of the predictions (the red line).

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 11, 2022, 6:10:12 AM1/11/22
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The website he links shows the actual data, he willfully lies and tells us to read different data, then claims it's proof. The only thing it's proof of is that he's a slimy lying piece of shit. The CDC does _not_ show there were no excess deaths. He wants us to look at "Weekly counts of deaths due to select causes of death", not "the number of excess deaths", then claim the former is proof there were no excess deaths. Even the data he tells us to look at very clearly show a significant number of deaths over all other years in the data sets presented during the peak of the outbreak in april 2020, and the 2021 data shows a consistently higher number from august through october than the previous years. Enter yet another of tommy's character flaws - willful misrepresentation of facts (i.e, a fucking liar): If he was honest about presenting excess death data, he would have checked the button for "Excess deaths with and without COVID-19", not "Weekly Number of Deaths by Cause Group". Then it would be plain to anyone reading that the number of excess deaths due to covid 19 - very clearly represented by the blue columns - dramatically exceeds the upper bounds of the predictions (the red line).

Tom Kunich

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Jan 11, 2022, 11:52:36 AM1/11/22
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You don't have a life and you never had one. And from your nonsensical stupidity it is plain that you'll never have one. What burns you up is that you're a loser and you think the world owes you a living. Well, it ain't happening anytime in your short and broken down lifetime. You are so in love with Fauci that you're obviously queer for him. There are those preposterous numbers which were bullshit and there is you believing them completely. I showed the lie in action on the earlier CDC chart that had covid-19 deaths higher than those of pneumonia which is IMPOSSIBLE and no growth in total deaths at all. And then like the low life nobody moron you believe the new chart Fauci invented to make himself look like an important person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkqQIY7J0fQ - at least this man has an Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Tell everyone here what Fauci has? A LONG LONG history of being totally wrong about everything he has ever said. When is your tranny surgery? Or are you going to simply identify as a woman so that you can have an advantage in women's racing? Believe me, you at least have the sense to keep yourself hidden behind a pseudonym. Slimy coward.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 11, 2022, 11:52:46 AM1/11/22
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You are SUPPOSED to understand numbers as a bookkeeper: 3,383,729 deaths (referring to figure 4) / 100,000 = 33.8 x 85 = 2,876 deaths. Now explain to us what 528,000 extra deaths has to do with Covid-19? Not to mention that those numbers are absolutely false.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 11, 2022, 11:59:05 AM1/11/22
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One of the things that show you as such a fool is that I actually have had contact with that fool, I know what he thinks of himself. They say that government workers raise to their level of incompetence and he reached that the day he was hired.

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 11, 2022, 12:26:11 PM1/11/22
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Once again, you show no proof to support your claims ( no, sparky, what you've shown does not support your claims, what you've shown is a willful misinterpretation of the data). Shut the fuck up tommy.

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 11, 2022, 12:29:16 PM1/11/22
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Another lie. You've never met Fauci, you've never even seen him in person, you've had no contact with him whatsoever. Just another lie to try and get people to think you're less of a loser piece of shit than you obviously are. Shut the fuck up, tommy.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 11, 2022, 3:59:57 PM1/11/22
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I worked for Dr. Kary Mullis and I was roped into gathering data and filling out questionnaires for the CDC and Fauci. So yes, I met him and he is a god damned fool. I told everyone here what that son of a bitch did to queers. While I don't like queers after interviewing them for those questionnaires I wouldn't do to a dog what that asshole did to them. And not only was he completely wrong, the entire scientific community turned against him for that. The only people he was working for were the vaccine companies.

About a year ago, he said that he had made $9 million off of the covid-19, meaning I suppose from the pharmaceutical company stocks. This is called insider trading and is a felony. The last time I looked for that Google wouldn't show it anywhere. It was completely wiped off of the Internet. But DuckDuckGo found a reference to it. I originally read a story that quoted Fauci directly as saying he made $9 million off of covid-19 but was mysterious about what he meant. https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ot7rd4/if_this_story_is_true_about_fauci_making_9/

Why don't you tell us all about this since you're so brilliant. The more you comment the more your mind shrinks and the more people realize it,.

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 11, 2022, 5:06:55 PM1/11/22
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Lie #1

> So yes, I met him and he is a god damned fool.

Lie #2

> I told everyone here what that son of a bitch did to queers. While I don't like queers after interviewing them for those questionnaires

Lie #3

> I wouldn't do to a dog what that asshole did to them. And not only was he completely wrong,
> the entire scientific community turned against him for that. The only people he was working for were the vaccine companies.
>
> About a year ago, he said that he had made $9 million off of the covid-19, meaning I suppose from the pharmaceutical company stocks.

Lie #4

> This is called insider trading and is a felony. The last time I looked for that Google wouldn't show it anywhere.
> It was completely wiped off of the Internet.

Lie #5

> But DuckDuckGo found a reference to it. I originally read a story that quoted Fauci directly as saying
> he made $9 million off of covid-19 but was mysterious about what he meant.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ot7rd4/if_this_story_is_true_about_fauci_making_9/
>
> Why don't you tell us all about this since you're so brilliant. The more you comment the more your mind shrinks and the more people realize it,.

You post horse shit like this and claim _other_ peoples minds a shrinking? Shut the fuck up Tommy.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 11, 2022, 5:18:22 PM1/11/22
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Why don't you shut me up? You have my address since I'm living in the house my mother was living in when Jobst published her address and said that I lived here and all of the people like you drove by and broke bottles in the street or threw crap up on her porch. I beg you - please - you sleezy coward - PLEASE shut me up. But you might not like having your head torn off and me shitting down your neck. Your appearance here would constitute a challenge and give me the legal authority to break every bone in your body and laugh about it.

So I'll repeat, please come and shut me up. After all, you couldn't possibly have anything to worry about a 77 year old man.

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 12, 2022, 7:58:46 AM1/12/22
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You can't manage that yourself? imagine our surprise.

> You have my address since I'm living in the house my mother was living in

No, I don't, and don't really have any interest in looking for it.

> when Jobst published her address and said that I lived here

Sure, Jobst Brandt published your address. I find that extremely difficult to believe, but will certainly admit I could be wrong. If it's true you you should be able to produce a ink to that message rather easily. If not, it's just more of your whiny bullshit.

> and all of the people like you drove by and broke bottles in the street or threw crap up on her porch

LOL...sure, the RBT membership made pilgrimages to your mothers house at the behest of jobst brandt. More likely is that you pissed off enough neighbors that they were the ones harassing you. I couldn't imagine the hell that is being your neighbor. I'd imagine you drove them away and drove your property values down in the process. It must feel pretty nice to you to know that you single-handedly reverse-gentrified your neighborhood.

> I beg you - please - you sleezy coward - PLEASE shut me up. But you might not like having your head torn off and me shitting down your neck.

lol...sure, a 77-year old mentally and physically addled tough guy. I'm younger, stronger, faster, and smarter than you. Keep dreaming, sparky....

> Your appearance here would constitute a challenge and give me the legal authority to break every bone in your body and laugh about it.

Nope, because I've never threatened you. But remember yesterday when you wrote "Or better yet, give me your true name and I will come over and let you try to shut me up. How's that for a deal? It won't even cost you plane fare." Based on that statement alone, your appearance here would constitute a challenge and give me the legal authority to break every bone in your body and laugh about it. Are you figuring out how this works yet?

>
> So I'll repeat, please come and shut me up. After all, you couldn't possibly have anything to worry about a 77 year old man.

It isn't just any 77 year old I'm not worried about, it's you specifically, so shut the fuck up tommy.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 12, 2022, 1:05:09 PM1/12/22
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We know how stupid you are so we can show you: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/Bdcrb3q1i9w

At that time I was married and living in Fremont and working in Sunnyvale. All of the Jobst worshippers had to come by and throw shit etc. on my mother's porch. Seem the sort of thing that you would try.

Since you think that you could beat me up, why haven't you given us your address and real name? See how that works?

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 12, 2022, 6:41:12 PM1/12/22
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Here's a lesson in humility for you tommy, I wrote " I find that extremely difficult to believe, but will certainly admit I could be wrong." As such, I stand corrected.

>
> At that time I was married and living in Fremont and working in Sunnyvale. All of the Jobst worshippers had to come by and throw shit etc. on my mother's porch. Seem the sort of thing that you would try.

Nah, I'm sticking with "More likely is that you pissed off enough neighbors that they were the ones harassing you."

>
> Since you think that you could beat me up,

Where did I write that? (careful tommy, your inner 9-year-old sandbox bully is showing)

> why haven't you given us your address and real name?

I don't want to.

> See how that works?

Yup, another example of you making a claim that I wrote something that I didn't write, you slimy lying piece of shit. Shut the fuck up tommy.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 12, 2022, 7:59:02 PM1/12/22
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Hey, braindead, I'm waiting for an apology about your lying that Jobst didn't publish my mothers address claiming it was mine. Also why are you claiming the neighbors didn't like me and they were the ones throwing shit on my mother's porch and breaking bottles on the street when I didn't even live there? You are missing so many screws that someone could build a 409 Chevy with them.

John B.

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Jan 12, 2022, 8:49:34 PM1/12/22
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:58:58 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
So, are you claiming that because Jobst published your address that
swarms of folks from RBT came to town simply to strew trash and broken
bottles on your porch?

Frankly it sounds like an really over active imagination on your part.
Can you prove your allegations? Or is this just another of your
delusions?
--
Cheers,

John B.

ritzann...@gmail.com

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Jan 12, 2022, 8:50:41 PM1/12/22
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For fun I clicked on the link Tommy boy provided. And found the following post:


Tom Kunich's profile photo
Tom Kunich
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Dec 27, 2005, 6:57:37 PM
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"Jobst Brandt" <an...@anon.com> wrote in message
news:VIdsf.8097$hI1....@tornado.socal.rr.com...
Yeah, apparently you like a newgroup like this. Well, it's all yours.


So 16 years and 3 weeks ago Tommy boy said he was going to abandon, stop posting on rec.bicycles.tech. It is readily apparent how truthful, honest, steadfast Tommy boy is.

ritzann...@gmail.com

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Jan 13, 2022, 1:25:02 AM1/13/22
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One more comment from that thread 16 years and 3 weeks ago. Late December 2005. Several people in that thread referred to Tommy Kunich as an "A", then next letter "S", and the last letter "S". And several people in that thread from 16 years and 3 weeks ago said they kill filed all of Tommy's posts because they did not want to read his lies and nonsensical jibberish. And today, 16 years and 3 weeks later, in this thread and other current threads there are numerous people saying Tommy boy is an "A" followed by an "S" and the last letter is another "S". And several people mentioning they kill file Tommy's posts. 16 years and 3 weeks later, nothing has changed about our Tommy boy. He remains consistent. An "A" followed by an "S" and follow that with an "S" too.

Sir Ridesalot

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Jan 13, 2022, 4:45:39 AM1/13/22
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I've often wonder what those people who feel compelled to respnd to Tom would do if he ever stopped posting here. LOL

Cheers

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 13, 2022, 8:21:58 AM1/13/22
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Hey shitferbrains, https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/uSd2-zgKJGg/m/Qc8bmR0gAAAJ

> Also why are you claiming the neighbors didn't like me and they were the ones throwing shit on my mother's porch and breaking bottles on the street when I didn't even live there?

likely that you were such an asshole to them when you were visiting, or maybe your mother was just as much of an asshole as you are.

> You are missing so many screws that someone could build a 409 Chevy with them.

<snork> Hey Frank - tommy thinks he can build a 409 from leftover screws....

Tom Kunich

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Jan 13, 2022, 10:31:38 AM1/13/22
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Jobst is dead and soon you and Jeff and Frank and flunkmeister will be too. And I will be still posting. I suppose that is just too bad for you.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 13, 2022, 10:33:00 AM1/13/22
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And I often wonder why you think that you have even a passing thread of belief.

Ralph Barone

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Jan 13, 2022, 10:46:55 AM1/13/22
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And 16 years and 3 weeks later, people are still responding to his posts.
There’s remarkable consistency on both sides here.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 13, 2022, 10:53:40 AM1/13/22
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And the same minority who do not know anything about bicycle mechanics and do not ride continue to steal the conversation from people who have worked in real science all their lives.

In 1918 the world was scourged by the Spanish flu which killed something like a quarter of the world's population. This gave us a case of survival of the fittest and the remainder of the population were no longer very sensitive to influenza. There is NO NEED to fear this. It was simply used to allow the Democrats to commit election fraud. Believe that or not but it will be proven.
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