Some People have all the luck

[Tom Kunich]

I opened Craigslist and saw a set of Campy Shamal wheels fir sale CHEAP. So I contacted the guy and went down and picked them up. So I got a set of $1300 wheels, with $120 in Continental tires in my size on them for $300. These are the best none carbon wheels that Campy makes.

I'm sure that people that love to throw shovels full of bullshit around will tell me they were stolen. But the guy knew all about the wheels and it was clear that he was a beginner and bought an expensive bike that had these on and decided that he needed flashier Enve wheels. He even told me that he does most of the braking with his rear wheel which is common among people like Russell.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 8 May 2022 16:39:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I opened Craigslist and saw a set of Campy Shamal wheels fir sale CHEAP. So I contacted the guy and went down and picked them up. So I got a set of $1300 wheels, with $120 in Continental tires in my size on them for $300. These are the best none carbon wheels that Campy makes.
>
>I'm sure that people that love to throw shovels full of bullshit around will tell me they were stolen.

That would be me. Not stolen but rather counterfeit. Did you check?
<https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/CampyWorld/Corporate/campagnolo_against_forgery>
<https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Wheels/certilogo_2>
<https://www.certilogo.com>

>But the guy knew all about the wheels and it was clear that he was a beginner and bought an expensive bike that had these on and decided that he needed flashier Enve wheels. He even told me that he does most of the braking with his rear wheel which is common among people like Russell.

What's wrong with this picture? The seller is a beginner who knows
all about high end Campy wheels and who sells you $1,420 worth of
unspecified "best" Campy wheels for $300 (20% of cost). My guess(tm)
is that the tag and sticker on the rear wheel are missing.

You're welcome.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/8/2022 8:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 8 May 2022 16:39:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I opened Craigslist and saw a set of Campy Shamal wheels fir sale CHEAP. So I contacted the guy and went down and picked them up. So I got a set of $1300 wheels, with $120 in Continental tires in my size on them for $300. These are the best none carbon wheels that Campy makes.
>>
>> I'm sure that people that love to throw shovels full of bullshit around will tell me they were stolen.
>
> That would be me. Not stolen but rather counterfeit. Did you check?
> <https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/CampyWorld/Corporate/campagnolo_against_forgery>
> <https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Wheels/certilogo_2>
> <https://www.certilogo.com>
>
>> But the guy knew all about the wheels and it was clear that he was a beginner and bought an expensive bike that had these on and decided that he needed flashier Enve wheels. He even told me that he does most of the braking with his rear wheel which is common among people like Russell.
>
> What's wrong with this picture? The seller is a beginner who knows
> all about high end Campy wheels and who sells you $1,420 worth of
> unspecified "best" Campy wheels for $300 (20% of cost). My guess(tm)
> is that the tag and sticker on the rear wheel are missing.
>
> You're welcome.
>

Sounds very likely to me.

But I'm curious what Tom is going to accomplish with those wheels,
whether or not they turn out to be genuine. Will he float up the
inclines, faster than ever before, chortling at his poor fatigued riding
partners? Will he time trial home in record time, shaving a full minute
off his previous best effort? Will the wheels otherwise transform his
riding experience?

Or will they be yet another step in his constant churning of equipment
and bikes?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 6:39:16 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> I opened Craigslist and saw a set of Campy Shamal wheels fir sale CHEAP. So I contacted the guy and went down and picked them up. So I got a set of $1300 wheels, with $120 in Continental tires in my size on them for $300. These are the best none carbon wheels that Campy makes.
>
> I'm sure that people that love to throw shovels full of bullshit around will tell me they were stolen. But the guy knew all about the wheels and it was clear that he was a beginner and bought an expensive bike that had these on and decided that he needed flashier Enve wheels. He even told me that he does most of the braking with his rear wheel which is common among people like Russell.

Guess what Tommy boy? I own a set of Campagnolo Shamal wheels. The somewhat original Shamal wheels. Back when the Shamal name meant the best Campagnolo wheels. 50 mm deep shiny bright aluminum rims. 12 spoke wheels. Pink Shamal logo.

I bought my Shamal wheels in early 2000s. 2001 or 2002 I think. Bike Nashbar had a super sale on rear wheels. Rear only. No front wheels. So I bought two rear wheels. They are beautiful wheels. I disassembled one of the wheels. Just used the rim. Bought a 36 hole Veloce hub. Somehow figured out what length of spokes to use with the 36 hole hub and 12 spoke rim. Radial lacing. Also had to buy the special Campagnolo nut driver spoke nipple tool. The Shamal wheels used internal nipples that were a nut. Some half mm size. I had a hard time finding the tool. But its needed to go into the hole in the rim bed to reach down to the nipple nut. Later found out Snap-On sold the same size nut driver. But they no longer offer that half mm size nut driver. I assembled my own personal Shamal front wheel. Rims match between the wheels. My Shamal wheels are on my Waterford bike. Burgundy red color. Silver Chorus 9 speed aluminum groupset. Bright silver Shamal wheels. Beautiful beautiful beautiful bike.

Tommy, this is what my Shamal wheels look like.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384736405896?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=384736405896&targetid=1262749490862&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9017849&poi=&campaignid=14859008593&mkgroupid=130497710760&rlsatarget=pla-1262749490862&abcId=9300678&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1N2TBhCOARIsAGVHQc7ZJNd_H4w_t2RAQ0hNUF3Awag73csGjTNFFAcEsbt0OWlRXBRVWi8aAkD4EALw_wcB

And Tommy, I brake almost exclusively with my front brake. Just in case you want to know that for some reason.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 8 May 2022 16:39:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I opened Craigslist and saw a set of Campy Shamal wheels fir sale CHEAP. So I contacted the guy and went down and picked them up. So I got a set of $1300 wheels, with $120 in Continental tires in my size on them for $300. These are the best none carbon wheels that Campy makes.
> >
> >I'm sure that people that love to throw shovels full of bullshit around will tell me they were stolen.
> That would be me. Not stolen but rather counterfeit. Did you check?
> <https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/CampyWorld/Corporate/campagnolo_against_forgery>
> <https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Wheels/certilogo_2>
> <https://www.certilogo.com>
> >But the guy knew all about the wheels and it was clear that he was a beginner and bought an expensive bike that had these on and decided that he needed flashier Enve wheels. He even told me that he does most of the braking with his rear wheel which is common among people like Russell.
> What's wrong with this picture? The seller is a beginner who knows
> all about high end Campy wheels and who sells you $1,420 worth of
> unspecified "best" Campy wheels for $300 (20% of cost). My guess(tm)
> is that the tag and sticker on the rear wheel are missing.
>
> You're welcome.
>

Well, there _is_ a sucker born every minute.....

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 9 May 2022 10:50:42 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Well, there _is_ a sucker born every minute.....

I beg to differ somewhat. I don't believe that people are born as a
sucker or chronic victim. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
known DNA sequence that will produce a tendency for someone to be
susceptible to fraudulent claims, spectacular bargains and excessive
trust. Such traits are learned and taught up to about age 8, applied
and tested up to about age 18, and ossified into permanent habits
after that. In other words, suckers are not born. They are the
product of upbringing, education, experience, testing and applied
logic.

One sucker per minute is a gross underestimate. The world population
is growing at the rate of 81 million people per year:
<https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/>
There are 525,600 minutes per year. Therefore, 154 people are born
every minute. What percentage of those 154 turn out to be suckers is
not known, but I suspect that it's a fairly large percentage. To be
safe, a more accurate observation might be:
"There are between 1 and 154 people available every minute, which can
eventually be educated into suckers".

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 2:25:09 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 10:50:42 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, there _is_ a sucker born every minute.....
> I beg to differ somewhat. I don't believe that people are born as a
> sucker or chronic victim. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
> known DNA sequence that will produce a tendency for someone to be
> susceptible to fraudulent claims, spectacular bargains and excessive
> trust. Such traits are learned and taught up to about age 8, applied
> and tested up to about age 18, and ossified into permanent habits
> after that. In other words, suckers are not born. They are the
> product of upbringing,

I do not know what upbringing Tommy boy had. He has talked frequently about his tough life as a kid in Oakland. I doubt that is a good upbringing. He has also regaled us about his east European immigrant family too.

> education,

High school dropout for Tommy.

> experience,

How many jobs did you find on Tommy's resume? 68 different jobs of a few months or so? And he was an experienced toolbox carrier in the mechanic department in the Air Force.

> testing

Testing? For Tommy? Did he take the GED test or failed to take it because the administrator said he wasn't eligible?

> and applied logic.

Tommy? Logic? Ha Ha Ho Ho.

[John B.]

On Mon, 09 May 2022 12:25:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 9 May 2022 10:50:42 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
><funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, there _is_ a sucker born every minute.....
>
>I beg to differ somewhat. I don't believe that people are born as a
>sucker or chronic victim. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
>known DNA sequence that will produce a tendency for someone to be
>susceptible to fraudulent claims, spectacular bargains and excessive
>trust. Such traits are learned and taught up to about age 8, applied
>and tested up to about age 18, and ossified into permanent habits
>after that. In other words, suckers are not born. They are the
>product of upbringing, education, experience, testing and applied
>logic.
>
>One sucker per minute is a gross underestimate. The world population
>is growing at the rate of 81 million people per year:
><https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/>
>There are 525,600 minutes per year. Therefore, 154 people are born
>every minute. What percentage of those 154 turn out to be suckers is
>not known, but I suspect that it's a fairly large percentage. To be
>safe, a more accurate observation might be:
>"There are between 1 and 154 people available every minute, which can
>eventually be educated into suckers".

Well... you brag about brushing your teeth with out toothpaste.

In India people drink their own urine as a health factor and will
argue fervently that they are correct in doing so.

In early Greece athletes ate bull's testicles to improve strength.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I doubt that is healthy. Urine is the waste products filtered out by the kidneys. The poison and water removed from your body. And you are putting the poison back into your body? Not very logical. Of course the acid in your stomach may kill off most of the poisons and the small intestine will receive the water from the urine. It will work for a short while. But not long term. And requires a large amount of extra water too.

>
> In early Greece athletes ate bull's testicles to improve strength.

Not exactly sure how not using toothpaste and drinking urine and eating testicles is related. But I have heard about eating testicles. Bulls I presume. People eat cow livers. And the liver helps filter the blood and produces bile. So maybe testicles are actually better to eat than liver.



>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

[John B.]

I didn't say it was healthy, I said that people in India (largely) do
it.

>>
>> In early Greece athletes ate bull's testicles to improve strength.
>
>Not exactly sure how not using toothpaste and drinking urine and eating testicles is related. But I have heard about eating testicles. Bulls I presume. People eat cow livers. And the liver helps filter the blood and produces bile. So maybe testicles are actually better to eat than liver.

I must be too subtle in my old age (:-) I was equating drinking urine
with "one born every minute"
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/9/2022 3:25 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> I beg to differ somewhat. I don't believe that people are born as a
> sucker or chronic victim. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
> known DNA sequence that will produce a tendency for someone to be
> susceptible to fraudulent claims, spectacular bargains and excessive
> trust. Such traits are learned and taught up to about age 8, applied
> and tested up to about age 18, and ossified into permanent habits
> after that. In other words, suckers are not born. They are the
> product of upbringing, education, experience, testing and applied
> logic.

Sorry, I must disagree. I believe they are more likely the product of a
_lack_ of those factors. Low logic, never testing anything, lack of
relevant experience, lack of education (for example, not managing to
complete high school) and poor upbringing.

As always, normal curves apply. There are exceptions. But Tom does not
seem to be an exception.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 3:25:09 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 10:50:42 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, there _is_ a sucker born every minute.....
> I beg to differ somewhat. I don't believe that people are born as a
> sucker or chronic victim. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
> known DNA sequence that will produce a tendency for someone to be
> susceptible to fraudulent claims, spectacular bargains and excessive
> trust. Such traits are learned and taught up to about age 8, applied
> and tested up to about age 18, and ossified into permanent habits
> after that. In other words, suckers are not born. They are the
> product of upbringing, education, experience, testing and applied
> logic.
>
> One sucker per minute is a gross underestimate. The world population
> is growing at the rate of 81 million people per year:
> <https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/>
> There are 525,600 minutes per year. Therefore, 154 people are born
> every minute. What percentage of those 154 turn out to be suckers is
> not known, but I suspect that it's a fairly large percentage. To be
> safe, a more accurate observation might be:
> "There are between 1 and 154 people available every minute, which can
> eventually be educated into suckers".
> --

+1

[Jeff Liebermann]

Don't be sorry. We all learn from questions, debate, and
disagreement. The planet would die an early and horrible death if
everyone agreed about everything:
"Question Authority" (Socrates and Timothy Leary)

I agree that the lack of a proper education and related experience
will produce undesirable results. Whether these undesirable results
are more likely among those without an education, as with those who
are the final product of todays politicized education system, is
unknown. As Tom and Andre have both mentioned, receiving a diploma
does not guarantee that someone will be productive, creative,
efficient, rational, or functional. Much of todays educational system
is designed to teach students how to become "better consumers". Of
course, better consumers are expected to consume the sponsors and
donors products. They could just as easily be turned into suckers.

It isn't just Tom who might be a sucker for glittering bicycle
components. I still get phone calls and email from former customers
asking me if it's ok to buy something online, or if some advertisement
is a great deal, or a scam. It's usually easy to tell, but even after
I show them how it's done and what to look for, the questions keep
coming. It seems that "better consumer" education is far more
powerful than common sense, logic, and even experience. Tom often
presents himself as a victim. In this case, he might be right. His
upbringing, education and experience may have been applied badly, or
simply lacking, where both extremes can produce similar results.

[Frank Krygowski]

I agree, in the sense that life has very few guarantees. It does have
lots of normal curves, though, and the normal curve for degreed
individuals is quite a bit better than the normal curve for those
without degrees. Only an uneducated fool would say that a well-chosen,
well-earned college degree has no value.

Having said that, I do think that college degrees are over promoted.
There are many, many people who should not attempt them, and many
careers for which they should not be necessary. But for employers, the
degree is a good indicator that a candidate for employment has a
relatively high level of personal discipline and intelligence, and will
not stop working when things get tough.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Andre Jute]

Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.

Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.

But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum

Andre Jute
Occam’s Razor.

[Tom Kunich]

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.
>
> Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.
>
> But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum

I installed them on my Di2 Colnago and did a 38 mile ride and 2,000 feet of climbing yesterday. Those wheels were very impressive but I think that I will move them over to the C50. The CLX3.0 is a 58 cm bike and now feels a little too small after riding the Trek and C50 which are both 60 cm. I was having neck pains until the road tilted up. I had a final 600 foot climb and on the descent I hit 40 mph. There was very strong (25 mph with 40 mph gusts) winds and the bike held a perfectly straight course without moving about in the gusts.

I was sent a email that said that Russell claimed that he had a set of Shamal wheels of the old 8 speed sort. Ebay add showed a 9 speed freehub on it but the axle would have had to be replaced to run a 9 speed on it. I traded a set of those very rare clincher types to a commercial house painter who painted my house for a Masi with them mounted on it. He is a short guy and sold the frameset and kept the wheels. All of the other 8 speed Shamal's I saw were tubular. By this time street riding on a set of those would have worn the braking surface down to the point where they are in danger of popping the brake track off if you hit a pothole hard.

By the way - I replaced the carbon brake pads for aluminum rim Zukka brake shoes and pads. These if you forgive my language are pure crap. They slowed so badly that you had to plan well ahead of time to get the bike stopped at a light. So I will replace the Shamals on my CLX3.0 with the original carbon clincher aero wheels and replace the blue carbon pads with the Campy carbon pads. The blue pads stopped OK but not especially good but are worn down.

[Tom Kunich]

It has been so long since I've had to set up brakes that I forgot the proper procedure. I was so intent on getting the fore and aft alignment correct, that I didn't get the vertical alignment correct. After installing new carbon brake shoes of the correct sort and changing the 11 speed Shimano cassette back over to the carbon wheels, reinstalling the Dura Ace brake shoes with the carbon pads in them. And getting the alignment correct. I hung the CLX from the ceiling again and started cleaning up. As I picked up the Zukka shoes and pads, I looked at them and realized that I had missed a step in the alignment procedure upon installing them and they were only contacting the braking surface over 25% of the braking surface. I had reinstalled the carbon brakes correctly and had remembered all of the proper alignment procedures.

What all this boils down to is that the poor braking I was having was due entirely to back alignment of the brakes. I would imagine that they will work pretty good with the proper alignment. I bought them from Amazon to get some shoes and additional refills overnight and then never used them. While installing the carbon pads in the Dura Ace shoes I also must have remembered the proper method for that because the new shoes which weren't from Campy but from Amazon also, slid right in 2/3rds of the way easily by hand and I only had to use the bench vice for the final quarter inch. The lock screw easily went in and out and locked easily against the shoe. I made aluminum pads for the steel vice many years ago so the shoes received no markings when the final pushing of the shoe to insert the pads occurred.

Unlike Frank, Flunky and Russell I don't mind saying that I made a mistake. Those fools absolutely refuse to admit that they make a mistake. They won't even admit that this demented fool of a President was elected entirely via election fraud. See "2000 Mules" coming to a theater near you. I already read a New York Times article that said that the placement of a cell phone can't be determined all that accurately. It is almost hysterically funny how people that don't know the advancements in the cell phones talk so knowledgably about them. Everyone is carrying at LEAST a 4G phone now and those Mules were carrying up to date phones that could be placed within inches of their position via their GPS tracking. Maybe you missed that Google Maps only runs on phones with GPS. My phone can show the difference in my position from the family room and the computer room - a displacement of 12 feet. During a map direction it calls out the turns exactly on schedule. It is so accurate it can tell what lane I am in. This is what some horses ass in the New York Times says "isn't very accurate". The Military mode of GPS can get accuracy within fractions of an inch. How exactly do you think that cruise missiles are aimed? So you can be absolutely certain that the GPS positioning of those Mule's phones is +/- a couple of feet. If, as we know, they are right next to a ballot drop box in 27 locations even in adjacent states, you can be absolutely certain what they are doing. Yes, people ARE allowed to drop multiple legal ballots into ballot boxes in some states, but in every state, being paid for it is illegal. I want to underscore that this wasn't simply ballot harvesting where the leftist radicals claim that they simply went to rest homes and got people to vote and then turned in their "legal" ballots. In one part of the video they saw a woman with arms full of ballots to shove into a drop box. She looked down at them and then took them back to her car where you could clearly watch her pick up each counterfeit ballot and sign each and every one of them herself and then bring them back and insert them into the drop box. This is Democracy to the Democrats.

A vote for a Democrat is a vote to allow election fraud not only to be continued but to be expanded as Gavin Loathsome has made these types of wide spread unmonitored drop boxes completely legal in California now.

[John B.]

But Tommy, I keep telling you... The Democrats got away with it! Or in
other words the Republicans were too dumb to catch them.

Are you arguing that you want to be ruled by the dumb Republicans as
opposed those clever Democrats?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/11/2022 8:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> It has been so long since I've had to set up brakes that I forgot the proper procedure. I was so intent on getting the fore and aft alignment correct, that I didn't get the vertical alignment correct.

So many mistakes! So many problems!

> Unlike Frank, Flunky and Russell I don't mind saying that I made a mistake. Those fools absolutely refuse to admit that they make a mistake.

Tom, if I made one tenth the number of bike mistakes that you make, I'd
give away my bike tools and start hauling the bike to a competent mechanic.

Seriously, you don't realize how terrible you are. Give it up. Get help.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:59:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.
> >
> > Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.
> >
> > But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum
> I installed them on my Di2 Colnago and did a 38 mile ride and 2,000 feet of climbing yesterday. Those wheels were very impressive but I think that I will move them over to the C50. The CLX3.0 is a 58 cm bike and now feels a little too small after riding the Trek and C50 which are both 60 cm. I was having neck pains until the road tilted up. I had a final 600 foot climb and on the descent I hit 40 mph. There was very strong (25 mph with 40 mph gusts) winds and the bike held a perfectly straight course without moving about in the gusts.
>
> I was sent a email that said that Russell claimed that he had a set of Shamal wheels of the old 8 speed sort. Ebay add showed a 9 speed freehub on it but the axle would have had to be replaced to run a 9 speed on it. I traded a set of those very rare clincher types to a commercial house painter who painted my house for a Masi with them mounted on it. He is a short guy and sold the frameset and kept the wheels. All of the other 8 speed Shamal's I saw were tubular. By this time street riding on a set of those would have worn the braking surface down to the point where they are in danger of popping the brake track off if you hit a pothole hard.
>

I have my original Shamal wheels (50mm or so deep shiny aluminum rims) on my 9 speed Chorus bike. It has a 9 speed Campagnolo cassette. I presume you are insinuating the aluminum cassette body would need to be replaced to run a 9 speed cassette. Not the axle. No, my Shamal wheels work just fine with a 9 speed cassette.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 7:06:50 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 10:59:14 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.
> > >
> > > Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.
> > >
> > > But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum
> > I installed them on my Di2 Colnago and did a 38 mile ride and 2,000 feet of climbing yesterday. Those wheels were very impressive but I think that I will move them over to the C50. The CLX3.0 is a 58 cm bike and now feels a little too small after riding the Trek and C50 which are both 60 cm. I was having neck pains until the road tilted up. I had a final 600 foot climb and on the descent I hit 40 mph. There was very strong (25 mph with 40 mph gusts) winds and the bike held a perfectly straight course without moving about in the gusts.
> >
> > I was sent a email that said that Russell claimed that he had a set of Shamal wheels of the old 8 speed sort. Ebay add showed a 9 speed freehub on it but the axle would have had to be replaced to run a 9 speed on it. I traded a set of those very rare clincher types to a commercial house painter who painted my house for a Masi with them mounted on it. He is a short guy and sold the frameset and kept the wheels. All of the other 8 speed Shamal's I saw were tubular. By this time street riding on a set of those would have worn the braking surface down to the point where they are in danger of popping the brake track off if you hit a pothole hard.
> >
> > By the way - I replaced the carbon brake pads for aluminum rim Zukka brake shoes and pads. These if you forgive my language are pure crap. They slowed so badly that you had to plan well ahead of time to get the bike stopped at a light. So I will replace the Shamals on my CLX3.0 with the original carbon clincher aero wheels and replace the blue carbon pads with the Campy carbon pads. The blue pads stopped OK but not especially good but are worn down.
> It has been so long since I've had to set up brakes that I forgot the proper procedure. I was so intent on getting the fore and aft alignment correct, that I didn't get the vertical alignment correct. After installing new carbon brake shoes of the correct sort and changing the 11 speed Shimano cassette back over to the carbon wheels, reinstalling the Dura Ace brake shoes with the carbon pads in them. And getting the alignment correct. I hung the CLX from the ceiling again and started cleaning up. As I picked up the Zukka shoes and pads, I looked at them and realized that I had missed a step in the alignment procedure upon installing them and they were only contacting the braking surface over 25% of the braking surface. I had reinstalled the carbon brakes correctly and had remembered all of the proper alignment procedures.
>
> What all this boils down to is that the poor braking I was having was due entirely to back alignment of the brakes. I would imagine that they will work pretty good with the proper alignment. I bought them from Amazon to get some shoes and additional refills overnight and then never used them. While installing the carbon pads in the Dura Ace shoes I also must have remembered the proper method for that because the new shoes which weren't from Campy but from Amazon also, slid right in 2/3rds of the way easily by hand and I only had to use the bench vice for the final quarter inch. The lock screw easily went in and out and locked easily against the shoe. I made aluminum pads for the steel vice many years ago so the shoes received no markings when the final pushing of the shoe to insert the pads occurred.
>
> Unlike Frank, Flunky and Russell I don't mind saying that I made a mistake.

Then why don't you say that? You make so many mistakes that you would have to immediately respond to every single post you make on this forum with a statement of "Tommy is WRONG".

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:14:45 AM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 7:06:50 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 10:59:14 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > > Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.
> > > >
> > > > But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum
> > > I installed them on my Di2 Colnago and did a 38 mile ride and 2,000 feet of climbing yesterday. Those wheels were very impressive but I think that I will move them over to the C50. The CLX3.0 is a 58 cm bike and now feels a little too small after riding the Trek and C50 which are both 60 cm. I was having neck pains until the road tilted up. I had a final 600 foot climb and on the descent I hit 40 mph. There was very strong (25 mph with 40 mph gusts) winds and the bike held a perfectly straight course without moving about in the gusts.
> > >
> > > I was sent a email that said that Russell claimed that he had a set of Shamal wheels of the old 8 speed sort. Ebay add showed a 9 speed freehub on it but the axle would have had to be replaced to run a 9 speed on it. I traded a set of those very rare clincher types to a commercial house painter who painted my house for a Masi with them mounted on it. He is a short guy and sold the frameset and kept the wheels. All of the other 8 speed Shamal's I saw were tubular. By this time street riding on a set of those would have worn the braking surface down to the point where they are in danger of popping the brake track off if you hit a pothole hard.
> > >
> > > By the way - I replaced the carbon brake pads for aluminum rim Zukka brake shoes and pads. These if you forgive my language are pure crap. They slowed so badly that you had to plan well ahead of time to get the bike stopped at a light. So I will replace the Shamals on my CLX3.0 with the original carbon clincher aero wheels and replace the blue carbon pads with the Campy carbon pads. The blue pads stopped OK but not especially good but are worn down.
> > It has been so long since I've had to set up brakes that I forgot the proper procedure. I was so intent on getting the fore and aft alignment correct, that I didn't get the vertical alignment correct. After installing new carbon brake shoes of the correct sort and changing the 11 speed Shimano cassette back over to the carbon wheels, reinstalling the Dura Ace brake shoes with the carbon pads in them. And getting the alignment correct. I hung the CLX from the ceiling again and started cleaning up. As I picked up the Zukka shoes and pads, I looked at them and realized that I had missed a step in the alignment procedure upon installing them and they were only contacting the braking surface over 25% of the braking surface. I had reinstalled the carbon brakes correctly and had remembered all of the proper alignment procedures.
> >
> > What all this boils down to is that the poor braking I was having was due entirely to back alignment of the brakes. I would imagine that they will work pretty good with the proper alignment. I bought them from Amazon to get some shoes and additional refills overnight and then never used them. While installing the carbon pads in the Dura Ace shoes I also must have remembered the proper method for that because the new shoes which weren't from Campy but from Amazon also, slid right in 2/3rds of the way easily by hand and I only had to use the bench vice for the final quarter inch. The lock screw easily went in and out and locked easily against the shoe. I made aluminum pads for the steel vice many years ago so the shoes received no markings when the final pushing of the shoe to insert the pads occurred.
> >
> > Unlike Frank, Flunky and Russell I don't mind saying that I made a mistake.
> Then why don't you say that? You make so many mistakes that you would have to immediately respond to every single post you make on this forum with a statement of "Tommy is WRONG".

Be careful, the phrase "tom is wrong, of course" is trade marked by SMS

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 8:06:50 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Unlike Frank, Flunky and Russell I don't mind saying that I made a mistake.

Right, like you did when you claimed that campagnolo made special non-stretch cables?
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/csOVQ3qa2ko/m/cNk0bQ07AQAJ
That's just on example of the literally hundreds on mistakes you've made.

<snipped unhinged political rant....Yawn....>

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:09:42 AM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:59:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.
> > >
> > > Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.
> > >
> > > But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum
> > I installed them on my Di2 Colnago and did a 38 mile ride and 2,000 feet of climbing yesterday. Those wheels were very impressive but I think that I will move them over to the C50. The CLX3.0 is a 58 cm bike and now feels a little too small after riding the Trek and C50 which are both 60 cm. I was having neck pains until the road tilted up. I had a final 600 foot climb and on the descent I hit 40 mph. There was very strong (25 mph with 40 mph gusts) winds and the bike held a perfectly straight course without moving about in the gusts.
> >
> > I was sent a email that said that Russell claimed that he had a set of Shamal wheels of the old 8 speed sort. Ebay add showed a 9 speed freehub on it but the axle would have had to be replaced to run a 9 speed on it. I traded a set of those very rare clincher types to a commercial house painter who painted my house for a Masi with them mounted on it. He is a short guy and sold the frameset and kept the wheels. All of the other 8 speed Shamal's I saw were tubular. By this time street riding on a set of those would have worn the braking surface down to the point where they are in danger of popping the brake track off if you hit a pothole hard.
> >
> I have my original Shamal wheels (50mm or so deep shiny aluminum rims) on my 9 speed Chorus bike.
> It has a 9 speed Campagnolo cassette. I presume you are insinuating the aluminum cassette body would
> need to be replaced to run a 9 speed cassette. Not the axle. No, my Shamal wheels work just fine with a 9 speed cassette.

You're correct about that, but there is a curious claim in the ad that in claims the wheel can run 8 though 11 with no problem. When campy moved to 9 speed systems the spline changed, an 8 speed cassette simply will not fit on the same hub as a 9 speed cassette. Of course there may be some after-market 8 speed cassettes with a 9 speed spline, but I'm unaware of them (maybe from Miche? Maybe Andrew knows) but Campy themselves never made an 8 speed cassette that would fit on a 9 speed hub. Shamals were made with both types of hubs.

This might be what tom thought he was trying to write, but as usual got it all wrong.

[AMuzi]

On 5/12/2022 2:09 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:59:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>>> Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.
>>>

>>> But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum

>> I installed them on my Di2 Colnago and did a 38 mile ride and 2,000 feet of climbing yesterday. Those wheels were very impressive but I think that I will move them over to the C50. The CLX3.0 is a 58 cm bike and now feels a little too small after riding the Trek and C50 which are both 60 cm. I was having neck pains until the road tilted up. I had a final 600 foot climb and on the descent I hit 40 mph. There was very strong (25 mph with 40 mph gusts) winds and the bike held a perfectly straight course without moving about in the gusts.
>>
>> I was sent a email that said that Russell claimed that he had a set of Shamal wheels of the old 8 speed sort. Ebay add showed a 9 speed freehub on it but the axle would have had to be replaced to run a 9 speed on it. I traded a set of those very rare clincher types to a commercial house painter who painted my house for a Masi with them mounted on it. He is a short guy and sold the frameset and kept the wheels. All of the other 8 speed Shamal's I saw were tubular. By this time street riding on a set of those would have worn the braking surface down to the point where they are in danger of popping the brake track off if you hit a pothole hard.
>>
>
> I have my original Shamal wheels (50mm or so deep shiny aluminum rims) on my 9 speed Chorus bike. It has a 9 speed Campagnolo cassette. I presume you are insinuating the aluminum cassette body would need to be replaced to run a 9 speed cassette. Not the axle. No, my Shamal wheels work just fine with a 9 speed cassette.
>
>
>
>
>
>> By the way - I replaced the carbon brake pads for aluminum rim Zukka brake shoes and pads. These if you forgive my language are pure crap. They slowed so badly that you had to plan well ahead of time to get the bike stopped at a light. So I will replace the Shamals on my CLX3.0 with the original carbon clincher aero wheels and replace the blue carbon pads with the Campy carbon pads. The blue pads stopped OK but not especially good but are worn down.

Your yet-current EXA cassette body can run as a 9, 10, 11 or 12.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

Speaking of such things: How amazing that in this bike tech discussion
group, Tom almost daily posts evidence of his bike tech incompetence. So
many mistakes! So many problems with what are actually fairly simple
machines!

Yet Tom somehow expects us to believe he has tremendous expertise
regarding much more complicated issues, like politics. And economics.
And epidemiology. And history. And genetics. And climate science.

From what I can tell, nobody here is impressed with Tom. But consistent
with the above, he seems incapable of understanding that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

I'm not clear on what you mean. Certainly my Shamal wheels have a 11 speed Shimano compatible freehub. But 10 speed Shimano freehubs will not mount an 11 speed cassette. I bought a set of supposed DT 10 speed wheels. I sent a message to DT Swiss to get an 11 speed freehub body. They wanted a picture so I sent them one. They said that it was DT Swiss rims but they had no idea what the hubs were. So what do I do with those wheels? I sell them to someone that has a 9 or 10 speed
Shimano setup. Perhaps you can try many 11 speed freehubs if you have a collection and maybe one of them will fit. But there are differences in Shimano 10 and 11 speed freehubs.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:06:48 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Unlike Frank, Flunky and Russell I don't mind saying that I made a mistake.

Everything you know is wrong. Admitting that you've made a mistake is
only the first step in recovering from a mistake. You also need to
correct the mistake and provide the correct factual information also
known as a retraction. Apologizing to the readers for the
misinformation is another important step. I do all that, as do most
other people in RBT. You don't, preferring instead to change the
topic. I've provided fact checking on some of your postings. I'm
rather appalled at the large number of mistakes you make. Mostly,
they're technical details that indicate you don't understand the topic
or lack experience. However, nobody could be so consistently wrong by
accident. I suspect it's intentional. Yes, we all make grammatical
and spelling errors. Sometimes things get mangled by dubious sources
with an agenda. These make good excuses, but they still require
providing corrections. The problem is that you make so many mistakes,
it would take you all day to research a single posting and probably
another day to post a believable retraction and correction. It's
possible that your habit of ignoring your detractors and critics
through "filtering" might be a way of buying additional time for
retractions, but instead seems to be wasted on fabricating additional
amazing facts and dubious claims.

[AMuzi]

On 5/12/2022 10:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 7:39:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/12/2022 2:09 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:59:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>> Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.
>>>>>

>>>>> But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum

>>>> I installed them on my Di2 Colnago and did a 38 mile ride and 2,000 feet of climbing yesterday. Those wheels were very impressive but I think that I will move them over to the C50. The CLX3.0 is a 58 cm bike and now feels a little too small after riding the Trek and C50 which are both 60 cm. I was having neck pains until the road tilted up. I had a final 600 foot climb and on the descent I hit 40 mph. There was very strong (25 mph with 40 mph gusts) winds and the bike held a perfectly straight course without moving about in the gusts.
>>>>
>>>> I was sent a email that said that Russell claimed that he had a set of Shamal wheels of the old 8 speed sort. Ebay add showed a 9 speed freehub on it but the axle would have had to be replaced to run a 9 speed on it. I traded a set of those very rare clincher types to a commercial house painter who painted my house for a Masi with them mounted on it. He is a short guy and sold the frameset and kept the wheels. All of the other 8 speed Shamal's I saw were tubular. By this time street riding on a set of those would have worn the braking surface down to the point where they are in danger of popping the brake track off if you hit a pothole hard.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have my original Shamal wheels (50mm or so deep shiny aluminum rims) on my 9 speed Chorus bike. It has a 9 speed Campagnolo cassette. I presume you are insinuating the aluminum cassette body would need to be replaced to run a 9 speed cassette. Not the axle. No, my Shamal wheels work just fine with a 9 speed cassette.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> By the way - I replaced the carbon brake pads for aluminum rim Zukka brake shoes and pads. These if you forgive my language are pure crap. They slowed so badly that you had to plan well ahead of time to get the bike stopped at a light. So I will replace the Shamals on my CLX3.0 with the original carbon clincher aero wheels and replace the blue carbon pads with the Campy carbon pads. The blue pads stopped OK but not especially good but are worn down.
>> Your yet-current EXA cassette body can run as a 9, 10, 11 or 12.
>
> I'm not clear on what you mean. Certainly my Shamal wheels have a 11 speed Shimano compatible freehub. But 10 speed Shimano freehubs will not mount an 11 speed cassette. I bought a set of supposed DT 10 speed wheels. I sent a message to DT Swiss to get an 11 speed freehub body. They wanted a picture so I sent them one. They said that it was DT Swiss rims but they had no idea what the hubs were. So what do I do with those wheels? I sell them to someone that has a 9 or 10 speed
> Shimano setup. Perhaps you can try many 11 speed freehubs if you have a collection and maybe one of them will fit. But there are differences in Shimano 10 and 11 speed freehubs.
>

I replied to Mr Seaton who has a Campagnolo EXA cassette
body (not to you regarding your HG-whatever cassette body)

[Tom Kunich]

My apologies. The freehub difference between Campy and Shimano is very odd. The fact that 11 speed cassettes of both have the same spacing seems to me weirs but handy since it doesn't matter which freehub I buy, they will work with either Shimano or Campagnolo. But add an additional speed and the entire game changes.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:39:36 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/12/2022 2:09 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:59:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>> Wow! A bunch of vicious monkeys drooling with their schadenfreude.
> >>>
> >>> Personally, I think that it is at least quite a bit more likely than not that Tom picked up a bargain.
> >>>
> >>> But you worthless clowns clearly wish not. You’re scum
> >> I installed them on my Di2 Colnago and did a 38 mile ride and 2,000 feet of climbing yesterday. Those wheels were very impressive but I think that I will move them over to the C50. The CLX3.0 is a 58 cm bike and now feels a little too small after riding the Trek and C50 which are both 60 cm. I was having neck pains until the road tilted up. I had a final 600 foot climb and on the descent I hit 40 mph. There was very strong (25 mph with 40 mph gusts) winds and the bike held a perfectly straight course without moving about in the gusts.
> >>
> >> I was sent a email that said that Russell claimed that he had a set of Shamal wheels of the old 8 speed sort. Ebay add showed a 9 speed freehub on it but the axle would have had to be replaced to run a 9 speed on it. I traded a set of those very rare clincher types to a commercial house painter who painted my house for a Masi with them mounted on it. He is a short guy and sold the frameset and kept the wheels. All of the other 8 speed Shamal's I saw were tubular. By this time street riding on a set of those would have worn the braking surface down to the point where they are in danger of popping the brake track off if you hit a pothole hard.
> >>
> >
> > I have my original Shamal wheels (50mm or so deep shiny aluminum rims) on my 9 speed Chorus bike. It has a 9 speed Campagnolo cassette. I presume you are insinuating the aluminum cassette body would need to be replaced to run a 9 speed cassette. Not the axle. No, my Shamal wheels work just fine with a 9 speed cassette.

> Your yet-current EXA cassette body can run as a 9, 10, 11 or 12.
>

> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

OK. So the original Shamal wheels I bought, way back in early 2000s, came from the factory with a Campagnolo cassette body, EXA, that could take 9 and up cassettes. I am 110% positive I just put the 9 speed cassette on and it fit and worked perfectly. Guessing it was a 9 speed Chorus cassette but maybe I cheaped out with a 9 speed Veloce cassette. After Tommy's posting, I did look up on Google and found several discussions talking about my 12 spoke wheels, front and rear, that only took 8 speed cassettes. And that did not apply to my wheels. So I was a bit confused. Maybe my 12 spoke Shamal wheels were at the end of the run and they had already switched to this new EXA cassette body to take 9 and up cassettes. Shamal wheels started during 8 speed cassette but 9 speed cassette came out while still in production. The 12 spoke Shamal models. I never tried to figure out what year of wheels I bought. Sometime in the 1990s. They are beautiful 50mm deep shiny gloss aluminum Campagnolo Shamal wheels. The rear anyway. I had to "make" my own front wheel. Campagnolo knows how to make beautiful components.