Resist the ‘Climate Change’ Power Grab

Andre Jute

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Jan 20, 2023, 5:24:29 PM1/20/23

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A powerful article about the danger false prophets pose to humanity:
Resist the ‘Climate Change’ Power Grab by Laura Hollis:
https://townhall.com/columnists/laurahollis/2023/01/20/resist-the-climate-change-power-grab-n2618519
>
Andre Jute
Carefree since 1990. How many cars have you hypocrites got?
>

Lou Holtman

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Jan 20, 2023, 5:29:36 PM1/20/23

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On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 11:24:29 PM UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:

> Andre Jute
> Carefree since 1990. How many cars have you hypocrites got?

If I have to believe your other stories you have had your share of polluting cars if that what you mean.

Lou

sms

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Jan 20, 2023, 7:38:08 PM1/20/23

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He did not say he was car-free. He said that he was carefree. Big
difference.

Andre Jute

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Jan 22, 2023, 4:24:05 PM1/22/23

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On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 11:21:49 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:

I finally looked under "climate denier" and found Dr. John Christy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZzYAAB0nkU

Tom Kunich

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Jan 22, 2023, 4:33:36 PM1/22/23

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I meant to do that but got distracted. But looking at the Slime Stream Media made up of "journalists" without the slightest training in science tells us that the real scientists are "climate deniers"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz45fETw078

I guess this means that as usual Krygowski is a moronic idiot that cannot stop himself from demonstrating his ignorance with every posting

Tom Kunich

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Jan 22, 2023, 4:56:47 PM1/22/23

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To point this out - the Model that is being used by the IPCC shows temperature changes more than 500% from actual measured temperature. This is ALSO why Michael Mann counterfeited the actual temperature record. Seems like the sort of thing that Krygowski approves of since he has misrepresented what he was teaching all along.

Lou Holtman

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Jan 22, 2023, 5:46:23 PM1/22/23

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I am not sure what you are trying to say or what you suggest to do given the current climate situation. ‘Just carry on and we deal with it as it comes along’? Just for my understanding. If we agree that the climate is changing we are only discussing whether it is caused by human behavior or not. If it is people that believe that say it can be solved by reducing our carbon footprint at huge cost and an enormous change in the way we live. If it is not the case how we are going to deal with it? What I see is that nothing is happening and 2035 is some kind of magical milestone.

Lou

Jeff Liebermann

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Jan 22, 2023, 5:54:58 PM1/22/23

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On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 12:58:19 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The "history" on my computer has literally thousands of entries
>per day making looking back just in the recent past impossible.

That would be true if you were searching the operating system logs
which are both numerous and voluminous. However, if you had followed
Frank's recommendation and searched your browser history <Ctrl-H>, you
probably would have found the web page. Since you are using a browser
(probably Chrome) to read rec.bicycles.tech, you will find a better
history at:
<https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity?pli=1>
It lists both your browser and YouTube activity. There's a search box
on literally every history page including the MyActivity page.

For searching YouTube history, just go to:
<https://www.youtube.com/feed/history>
Use the search box in the upper right of the screen, not the browser
search.

"Thousands of entries per day" requires a minimum of 2,000 entries to
be plural. For an assumed 12 hr day at your computer, your activity
would be:
12 hrs/day * 3600 seconds/hr / 2,000 pages/day = 21.6 seconds/page
You must be a very fast reader. In the future, please try to contrive
numbers that are believable.

>He very obviously has absolutely nothing more to do than monitor
>bicycles.tech whereas I have so many things going on that finding
>that specific entry is nearly impossible.

Would you like for me to calculate how many hours per day you spend
reading RBT? It's quite easy (but tedious) to do.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann

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Jan 22, 2023, 6:05:32 PM1/22/23

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On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 13:24:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I finally looked under "climate denier" and found Dr. John Christy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZzYAAB0nkU

The video is from Mar 31, 2011. That's 12 years ago and thoroughly
out of date.

The video is also before the "House Committee on Science, Space and
Technology" which is not the same as a Senate sub-committee:
"...video of an actual climate scientist with credentials

galore speaking to a Senate sub-committee on climate change."

Google couldn't find a Senate committe on climate change:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=senate+committee+on+climate+change>
If Google can't find it, it doesn't exist.

Perhaps you meant the Democrats Senate committee?
<https://www.democrats.senate.gov/about-senate-dems/climate>

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 22, 2023, 6:19:29 PM1/22/23

to

Do you have a link to a more current paper published by Christy? Brief
testimony from 12 years ago containing lots of "may be" statements is
far from convincing. There's nothing there to critically examine.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 22, 2023, 6:21:10 PM1/22/23

to

On 1/22/2023 4:33 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> But looking at the Slime Stream Media made up of "journalists" without the slightest training in science tells us that the real scientists are "climate deniers"

Hmm. I forget what was your training in science. Care to tell us?

I thought I remembered you were a high school dropout and a guy who
changed jobs every two years or so. Am I remembering wrong?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich

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Jan 22, 2023, 6:23:32 PM1/22/23

to

Lou, The "Climate Crisis" was a man-made panic designed to frighten people because frightened people are much easier to control. We know that most of this was entirely manufactured by "Dr." Michael Mann entirely out of whole cloth so that he could gain government grants to support himself in the manner he wished to live. This then because a political tool used by the Democrat Party and their war machine. With control of the government they had control of the purse Strings and just as President Eisenhower (The Supreme Allied Commander who is the reason YOU are alive today) said in his fairwe3ll speech, the military-industrial complex and the scientific-academic complex see themselves as superior to normal people and will do absolutely anything to accomplish that.

Getting a DENTIST (trained scientist in the eyes of the common man) to agree that there is global warming has absolutely nothing to so with whether anything like that is happening. The SCIENCE is whether you can predict the future by referring to the past. Well, the models presented by the IPCC are 500+% wrong about predicting what actually happened. So why would you believe for one second that it can predict the future. PLUS every single thing that is being attributed to "climate change" is perfectly normal and easily predictable by simple observation of the elliptical orbit of the Earth around the Sun which has (I believe) a 232 year cycle. And as science goes along they discover more things like sun spot activities and large meteor strikes that have additional things to add or subtract from the climate. The meteor strike in South America may very well have caused the end of the Age of Dinosaurs.

When you give people the money and the capacity to give themselves a better life simply by taking advantage of false profits that is exactly what they do as shown especially by the Dark Ages history.

All this was, was Dr. John Christy showing that the actual climate boar no resemblance to the models.

pH

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Jan 22, 2023, 9:25:13 PM1/22/23

to

I've had good luck finding things I could once find via google but no longer
by using "yandex" (yandex.com)

pH in Aptos

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Jan 23, 2023, 9:29:47 AM1/23/23

to

+1

The returned hits from duck searches seem less edited in
that I can quickly find things others using gurgle cannot.

Lou Holtman

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Jan 23, 2023, 10:46:47 AM1/23/23

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Countries commited themselves to a certain reductions before 2030 or 2035 during one of the kumbaya summits. As we see now that this reduction is not feasible so the governments committed themselves to something they can't realize (they need the people for that) and now the climate people sue the government and win. Governments now spend enormous amounts of money on crazy/panic measurements in order to try to meet their unrealistic promises just the judge said so. Example: to reduce our carbon footprint the people in the Netherlands should not use gas anymore to warm their houses. German people have to use gas to improve their carbon footprint (coming from coal or 'bruinkool') and fun fact they use our gas as a result of longterm contracts. I calculated that I have to spend 40000 euro to make my house ready to get rid of gas. How crazy is that? The rich European countries have to help poorer European countries in their effort to reduce their carbon footprint just because we fix that date of 2030-2035. From 2035 all new cars shopuld be electric. I can't see how this is going to work in my street when every car has to be plugged in and when I ask they say 'we are going to fix that before that time. How? What is your plan? Solar panels can be connected to the grid because the grid is not ready for that. Etc. etc. The only way is that everyone has the change the way of living and people are not prepare to do that and all the poor bastards in India, Africa etc want the same things we have here at the moment and I can't blame them. This means that we are going in the wrong direction. So what is the solution?

Lou

AMuzi

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Jan 23, 2023, 11:14:04 AM1/23/23

to

On 1/23/2023 9:46 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 3:01:19 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/22/2023 4:46 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 10:24:05 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 11:21:49 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 7:06:51 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/22/2023 12:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... Yesterday I attempted to find that again and it could not be found on YouTube and Google wouldn't show a climate scientist with any negative opinions of climate change....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your browser has a History section. You can use that to find any page
>>>>>> you've actually visited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, browser history doesn't cover what you've merely imagined; or
>>>>>> in your case, "remembered."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>
>>>>> You really are a nasty piece of shit, aren't you, Franki-boy?
>>>>>>
>>>> I finally looked under "climate denier" and found Dr. John Christy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZzYAAB0nkU
>>>

>>> I am not sure what you are trying to say or what you suggest to do given the current climate situation. Ã¢â‚¬ËœJust carry on and we deal with it as it comes alongÃ¢â‚¬â„¢? Just for my understanding. If we agree that the climate is changing we are only discussing whether it is caused by human behavior or not. If it is people that believe that say it can be solved by reducing our carbon footprint at huge cost and an enormous change in the way we live. If it is not the case how we are going to deal with it? What I see is that nothing is happening and 2035 is some kind of magical milestone.

>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>
>> 2035 absolutely. It will probably be like the 'widespread
>> famine and cities under water' back in 2010, predicted in 1992.
>>
>> pfffft.
>>
>
> Countries commited themselves to a certain reductions before 2030 or 2035 during one of the kumbaya summits. As we see now that this reduction is not feasible so the governments committed themselves to something they can't realize (they need the people for that) and now the climate people sue the government and win. Governments now spend enormous amounts of money on crazy/panic measurements in order to try to meet their unrealistic promises just the judge said so. Example: to reduce our carbon footprint the people in the Netherlands should not use gas anymore to warm their houses. German people have to use gas to improve their carbon footprint (coming from coal or 'bruinkool') and fun fact they use our gas as a result of longterm contracts. I calculated that I have to spend 40000 euro to make my house ready to get rid of gas. How crazy is that? The rich European countries have to help poorer European countries in their effort to reduce their carbon footprint just because we fix th
at date of 2030-2035. From 2035 all new cars shopuld be electric. I can't see how this is going to work in my street when every car has to be plugged in and when I ask they say 'we are going to fix that before that time. How? What is your plan? Solar panels can be connected to the grid because the grid is not ready for that. Etc. etc. The only way is that everyone has the change the way of living and people are not prepare to do that and all the poor bastards in India, Africa etc want the same things we have here at the moment and I can't blame them. This means that we are going in the wrong direction. So what is the solution?
>
> Lou
>

Thank you, all good points.

Then we have sheer pernicious effects besides. While
unwinding the extractive and manufacturing industries of
western culture we get misallocation of capital,
unemployment and reduced growth, even lower GDP.

The other side of that is to effectively outsource resource
extraction to second tier or third world countries with no
control of pollution whatsoever (and some with slavery
besides). Then we consume manufactures from china with
absolutely no restraints on pollution, a large and growing
coal-fired electric system and more CO2 emissions than USA
and Europe combined (+growing!). Extra points for slave
labor and organ harvesting from living prisoners for those
sensitive types who want to wreck our own industry.

Tom Kunich

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Jan 23, 2023, 11:38:04 AM1/23/23

to

The solution is to admit that as I have outlined - CO2 has so little effect on atmospheric heating that it has all been used up and any increases in CO2 have no further effect. I am not going to outline why CO2 has no further effect to have moronic idiots like Liebermann say I am lying by my showing the scientific proof. I will just say that the energy absorption banders of CO2 are filled and besides that, the average Earth's temperature is so low that energy transfer from the surface to the Ionosphere occurs NOT by radiation but by conduction. Look at the surface of a parking lot on a warm sunny day and you will see the wavy lines of heat conduction through the atmosphere.

I could go through all of this but I am sure that Krygowski would chime in that NOAA and NASA who are STILL using their same computer models and are still claiming that this has been the hottest year on record despite the world wide weather reports to the contrary know more than I do.

I could even explain the fine details of how energy in the ionosphere radiates into space but it is sort of pointless unless people are willing to listen. But according to Flunky, Scharf, Liebermann and Krygowski, I don't know anything and a demonstrably incorrect climate change model is absolutely and without doubt correct.

Europe wishes to be governed by a cabal of power hungry dictators so either you resist or go along with it despite your losing over half of your living standard.

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 12:18:16 PM1/23/23

to

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:51:09 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/23/2023 10:46 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 3:01:19 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/22/2023 4:46 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 10:24:05 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 11:21:49 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 7:06:51 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/22/2023 12:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... Yesterday I attempted to find that again and it could not be found on YouTube and Google wouldn't show a climate scientist with any negative opinions of climate change....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your browser has a History section. You can use that to find any page
>>>>>>> you've actually visited.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, browser history doesn't cover what you've merely imagined; or
>>>>>>> in your case, "remembered."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really are a nasty piece of shit, aren't you, Franki-boy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>> I finally looked under "climate denier" and found Dr. John Christy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZzYAAB0nkU
>>>>

>>>> I am not sure what you are trying to say or what you suggest to do given the current climate situation. ‘Just carry on and we deal with it as it comes along’? Just for my understanding. If we agree that the climate is changing we are only discussing whether it is caused by human behavior or not. If it is people that believe that say it can be solved by reducing our carbon footprint at huge cost and an enormous change in the way we live. If it is not the case how we are going to deal with it? What I see is that nothing is happening and 2035 is some kind of magical milestone.

>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>
>>> 2035 absolutely. It will probably be like the 'widespread
>>> famine and cities under water' back in 2010, predicted in 1992.
>>>
>>> pfffft.
>>>
>>
>> Countries commited themselves to a certain reductions before 2030 or 2035 during one of the kumbaya summits. As we see now that this reduction is not feasible so the governments committed themselves to something they can't realize (they need the people for that) and now the climate people sue the government and win. Governments now spend enormous amounts of money on crazy/panic measurements in order to try to meet their unrealistic promises just the judge said so. Example: to reduce our carbon footprint the people in the Netherlands should not use gas anymore to warm their houses. German people have to use gas to improve their carbon footprint (coming from coal or 'bruinkool') and fun fact they use our gas as a result of longterm contracts. I calculated that I have to spend 40000 euro to make my house ready to get rid of gas. How crazy is that? The rich European countries have to help poorer European countries in their effort to reduce their carbon footprint just because we fix
>that date of 2030-2035. From 2035 all new cars shopuld be electric. I can't see how this is going to work in my street when every car has to be plugged in and when I ask they say 'we are going to fix that before that time. How? What is your plan? Solar panels can be connected to the grid because the grid is not ready for that. Etc. etc. The only way is that everyone has the change the way of living and people are not prepare to do that and all the poor bastards in India, Africa etc want the same things we have here at the moment and I can't blame them. This means that we are going in the wrong direction. So what is the solution?
>
>I have little patience with people who pretend there is no problem, or
>that humanity has nothing to do with the problem. But I'm very
>pessimistic about finding a solution.
>
>At this point, one analogous question is this: "Did the passengers of
>the Titanic have a moral obligation to bail water using their teacups?"

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Jan 23, 2023, 2:15:21 PM1/23/23

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We are the second largest export country of agricultural products. We can’t deny that this has a big impact on the environment for a small country. One problem is the NOx deposit of the intensiv bio-industry; cows, pigs, chickens, goats leading to a decline of the bio diversity. In some parts of the country this is a problem. OK therefore some farmers should stop, an enormous decision for ofter family farms. Some farmers give up. Farmers have a certain NOx budget so if they don’t use that anymore this should be good news for the bio diversity I would think. But….today also in the news a farmer sold his NOx budget to Schiphol AirPort so they can increase the number of planes that can take off or land. From the farmers point of view understandable but WTF? How does this help the bio diversity. What do you think the other farmers think whom the government are telling them they have to stop. This is crazy.

Lou

Catrike Rider

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Jan 23, 2023, 3:19:51 PM1/23/23

to

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Jan 23, 2023, 8:11:23 PM1/23/23

to

I particularly liked the leftist phrase "farming pollution". Let's see what he thinks of that when he can't eat.

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 23, 2023, 9:15:11 PM1/23/23

to

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 1:19:18 PM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I think it is not to frighten us. The networks are competing with each other and the journalists are too stupid to ask any relevant questions also partly because the viewers are too dumb or too bored to be interested in the answers. With all that shallow coverage of the big problems the only thing you get is more polarization. That is what we see on almost every difficult to solve problem now and also here.

I remember a comic series from years ago, set inside a TV news show. One day's
episode had the news director talking to one of the on-air personalities. He said something
like "This issue is important and complicated. Take time to explain it thoroughly. Give it the
full 30 seconds."

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 23, 2023, 9:31:09 PM1/23/23

to

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 2:42:44 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Strange that I haven't seen Krygowski apologizing for his comments indicating that I was lying about that there was a video showing that the NASA, NOAA model was over 500% incorrect.

Um... I don't remember saying that, but I may have forgotten. Much more important is this question:
Where's the link to the video you're talking about?

> Well, NOAA and NASA have CONTINUED to use that model despite the fact that world wide mean global average temperature has fallen two years in a row. They continue to tell us that THIS year is the hottest on record. Despite records dating to the 1930s showing FAR HIGHER temperatures that caused the dust bowl. https://www.thequint.com/climate-change/1200-scientists-claim-that-climate-change-is-not-real-heres-the-truth

Tom, did you read that article? Did you not understand it? It's arguing against you.

> Now, I will ask you, HOW many scientists do you think that this field supports? FACT: a couple of thousand in the entire world. Now if 1200 disagree with man-made climate change where are they getting 97% agreement? By asking scientists that have nothing to do with geological climate and only take the word of the noisiest. Do you sup\pose that Krygowski would EVER apologize for saying (for 10 years now) that 97% of scientists agree? Krygowski is a pitiful excuse for a human being.

Tom, you're forgetting things, you're imagining things, you're misunderstanding what you read.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 23, 2023, 9:43:27 PM1/23/23

to

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > >
> I have time after time showed via the science of chromatography which Lieberman and Krygowski claim does not exist, that there is no way that CO2 could have any but the slightest deleterious effects that are far offset by their large salubrious effects.

No, Tom, you have not "shown" that. You may have claimed that, but that's not the same as
actually "showing" or proving that.

But no matter! Again, if you, as a high school dropout and a person with no real science
education, a person who seldom held a job for more than two years... if you really have
scientific proof that so many climate scientists are totally wrong, why not get your work
published somewhere other than rec.bicycles.tech? As I've said, you can make yourself
even richer than you now claim to be, and certainly more famous.

Go for it! Don't waste your time here!

- Frank Krygowski

Andre Jute

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Jan 23, 2023, 11:53:22 PM1/23/23

to

>
Yo, Franki-boy, you're carrying on your futile flame wars in my thread, again. Fuck off, will you. You're not wanted here.
>
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 2:43:27 AM UTC, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:

Lou Holtman

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Jan 24, 2023, 3:12:10 AM1/24/23

to

It is complicated. Farmers are not without blame for their situation. As an example as soon as it was announced that the milk quota would be abolished all the farmers increased their stock in advance taking the fines into account because it takes time before the cows produce milk and they all wanted to be the first. All this knowing that the whole situation was already bad. All this was encouraged by the farmers bank (RABO bank, former sponsor of the pro cycling team) but the farmers were sometime happy to do so or sometimes forced by the bank (otherwise no credit anymore). Surprise, suprise 2 years later we produced too much milk and the prices went down dramatically and the farmers started complaining and asking the government for help. WTF. Its a combination of false promises of the government, farmers willingly taking risks or even cheating and the bank forcing the farmers to expand and make more debts. Cancel all the subsidies (European and local) and no government funding after an outbreak of swine flu or bird flu and make the rules clear I would say. It will sort itself out.

Lou

funkma...@hotmail.com

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Jan 24, 2023, 6:21:25 AM1/24/23

Jan 25, 2023, 11:47:28 AM1/25/23

to

On 1/25/2023 1:27 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> When the power went out during last weeks storms...

>
> Drivel: Although I have a generator, I only used it a few hours per
> day to keep the food in the fridge from spoiling. For lighting, I
> used two Coleman fuel lanterns and one Coleman propane lantern.

I still have a Coleman fuel lantern hanging in the basement. It needs
repair, but I'm not motivated to do that.

During our last hours-long power outage (last summer, IIRC) I found that
several cheap (or sometimes free) Harbor Freight worklights did the job
very well.
https://www.harborfreight.com/144-lumen-ultra-bright-portable-led-worklightflashlight-63878.html

I supplemented with a similarly cheap Harbor Freight headlamp and an
antique kerosene lamp (once my grandmother's).

I happen to have three motorcycle-size 12V lead acid batteries stored
and maintained in my shop. During that last power outage, I thought that
it might make sense to rig those with LEDs for the next power outage.
But our power is boringly reliable.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

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Jan 25, 2023, 10:40:20 PM1/25/23

to

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:05:55 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have time after time showed via the science of chromatography which Lieberman
>and Krygowski claim does not exist,

Chromatography literally means "color writing". Do your amazing facts
more accurately resemble facts by writing them in color?

>that there is no way that CO2 could have any but the slightest deleterious
>effects

Try breathing a greater than normal concentration of CO2 to get a
first hand experience with deleterious effects. Normal outdoor air is
about 400 ppm. You will start feeling rather lousy above about 700
ppm.

>that are far offset by their large salubrious effects.

Salubrious means "health-giving". Please provide one of the health
giving effects of CO2. If you're going to use technical terms, I
suggest that you research their meanings and use the terms
appropriately.

>I have also shown that water vapor in the form of clouds IS the
>greenhouse and little else

Water vapor is the greenhouse what? Please complete your sentence so
I have a clue what amazing facts you're proclaiming.

>despite laboratory tastings of Methane

Ahem. I don't believe that there is a taste test for methane.

>(which rapidly converts to ethane which is harmless since it
>rapidly breaks down to CO2 and water).

It's more complexicated than that.
"NASA-Funded Study Helps Untangle Methane Mystery"
<https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/earth20120828.html>
"The scientists found that the long-term decline in the global
concentration of atmospheric ethane has closely matched the long-term
decline of the global growth rate of atmospheric methane."

>Clouds reflect solar radiation back into space which is a large percentage of that received by the Sun. The solar radiation that reaches the Earth's surface is converted almost immediately to low infrared There is insufficient power in this to radiate so the ONLY way for it to move back into space to retain the one-to-one energy-in to energy-out relationship is to conduct the infrared into the upper ionosphere where direct solar radiation can excite the gases to the point where they THEN radiate. Simple geometry then tells you that MOST of the radiation goes back into space

I can do simple geometry. Kindly show me how simple geometry
demonstrates that most solar radiation is reflected back to space by
clouds. The current estimate is 29% is reflected:
<https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/EnergyBalance/page4.php>
"About 29 percent of the solar energy that arrives at the top of the
atmosphere is reflected back to space by clouds, atmospheric
particles, or bright ground surfaces like sea ice and snow. This
energy plays no role in Earth’s climate system..."
The article is rather old (Jan 2009) but is accurate enough for this
discussion.

>The Earth is covered in oceans, the water source by which the
>heating of the planet occurs until clouds and atmospheric density
>balance the energy.

Nope. Water and atmospheric density (whatever that might be) absorbs
solar energy. See above NASA link.

>Timed for Krygowski to prove his scientific training by denying
>this is so without any alternative and Liebermann to quote a
>Google author from the far far left.

Time for Tom to cite a far right author from TownHall.com. You made a
mess of citing a medical research article from <http://mdpi.com>. Try
to do a better job citing links from Town Hall.

What's a "Google author"? Google does have its blogs and opinion
sites, but those are not what I like to quote.

That's zero out of 10 correct. Well, to be fair, 2 might be less than
half correct and 2 are hair splitting. Even so, I would still give
you zero out of 10 for this train wreck.

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Jan 25, 2023, 10:50:10 PM1/25/23

to

DuckDuckGo is more private than most browsers, but is far from
perfect:

"DuckDuckGo browser allows Microsoft trackers due to search agreement"
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/duckduckgo-browser-allows-microsoft-trackers-due-to-search-agreement/>
"...while performing a security audit of the DuckDuckGo Privacy
Browser, security researcher Zach Edwards discovered that while the
browser blocks Google and Facebook trackers, it allowed Microsoft
trackers to continue running."

"Further tests showed that DuckDuckGo allowed trackers related to the
bing.com and linkedin.com domains while blocking all other trackers."

"While DuckDuckGo has been transparent regarding the advertisement
partnership with Microsoft, it is not clear why they did not disclose
the allowing of Microsoft trackers until a security researcher
discovered it."

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Jan 25, 2023, 11:22:46 PM1/25/23

to

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 13:15:04 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I keep forgetting to make DuckDuckGo my regular search engine.

Why bother? The links you've provided all pointed to TownHall.com.
Just use the TownHall.com search page. It's the magnifying glass icon
in the upper right of any TownHall.com page. DuckDuckGo might protect
your searching habits, but it doesn't do anything if view the web
pages it suggests. For example, the TownHall.com home page provides
tracking information to 41 trackers. If I try various pages on
TownHall.com, Firefox adds Twitter and some other social media
trackers. This is with Firefox "Enhanced Tracking Protection"
enabled. Incidentally, a VPN service won't help.

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Jan 26, 2023, 1:19:47 PM1/26/23

to

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 11:47:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/25/2023 1:27 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> When the power went out during last weeks storms...
>>
>> Drivel: Although I have a generator, I only used it a few hours per
>> day to keep the food in the fridge from spoiling. For lighting, I
>> used two Coleman fuel lanterns and one Coleman propane lantern.

>I still have a Coleman fuel lantern hanging in the basement. It needs
>repair, but I'm not motivated to do that.

If you're planning on storing the Coleman fuel lantern for many years,
I suggest you drain the fuel out. The fuel will last a long time, but
it also attracts water, which will corrode the steel parts. A few
years ago, I bought a new looking Coleman camp stove where the
previous owner had left fuel in the tank. The bottom on the pump
assembly on the tank was badly rusted and not repairable. The same
thing can happen to fuel lanterns.

>During our last hours-long power outage (last summer, IIRC) I found that
>several cheap (or sometimes free) Harbor Freight worklights did the job
>very well.
>https://www.harborfreight.com/144-lumen-ultra-bright-portable-led-worklightflashlight-63878.html

I have a few of those. Free is always good, until you need to buy
batteries. Alkaline batteries will leak, usually when you're not
paying attention. I use NiMH rechargeable cells:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/125336642045>
for about $1.25/ea in small quantities.

I've also modified such small lights by installing a LiPo pocket cell
battery in place of the three AAA cells. It's not as bright as
alkaline but good enough for emergency use. The big advantage of LiPo
and LiIon is LSD (low self discharge). You can charge the battery
once per year, and it will be ready to use a year later. NiMH cells
are a close second because the better cells (Eneloop) also offer LSD.
The problem is that the generic NiMH cells, like the one's I buy, will
self discharge more rapidly than I would consider acceptable for an
emergency light. (Remember that bad old days of Zinc-Carbon D cells
in incandescent flashlights? Whenever I needed an emergency light,
there was always one available, with dead batteries inside).

>I supplemented with a similarly cheap Harbor Freight headlamp and an
>antique kerosene lamp (once my grandmother's).

I have several LiIon headlights. I live in the deep dark forest,
where walking to the neighbors at night requires lighting. Carrying a
load of firewood is much easier with a headlight.

I gave up on kerosene long ago. Lots of disadvantages compared to
other methods of lighting, with no advantages.

>I happen to have three motorcycle-size 12V lead acid batteries stored
>and maintained in my shop. During that last power outage, I thought that
>it might make sense to rig those with LEDs for the next power outage.
>But our power is boringly reliable.

Our power is a little better than 3rd world power, but not much. The
local utility, PG&E, is paranoid that they might get sued again into
yet another bankruptcy. Any disturbance in the local distribution
system, and they turn off large areas to prevent fires. Since the CZU
fire in Aug/Sept 2020, outages have been numerous. To insure maximum
customer irritation, PG&E decided that it needed to physically inspect
all the lines before turning the power back on. For about a year,
that meant if the power died at night, it would not be restored until
the following morning. Typical outages lasted 4 or more hours. PG&E
has recently returned to some level of sanity after they were
convinced that fires were unlikely while it was wet or raining. Every
time the power goes out, I can count on at least one local service
call for a generator that won't start.

I have some AGM batteries that run my cable modem, wi-fi router, Ooma
phone, ham radios, laptop, smartphone chargers, cordless phone,
weather station and some small LED lights. All these run on 12V and
without a 120VAC inverter. It all works reasonably well, but the
batteries are now 23 years old and almost dead. I have two 12V 100A
LiFePO4 batteries that will eventually replace the AGM batteries.

Most of the neighbors have purchased various "power station" models:
<https://www.amazon.com/s?k=power+station>
I don't have a recommended model, but if you decide to go shopping, I
suggest something that uses LiFePO4 batteries instead of LiIon. These
are initially more expensive, but the batteries last for many more
charge cycles. If you plan to power your entire house, buy a propane,
natural gas, gasoline, or maybe diesel generator. Here's mine:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/Generators/DuroMax%20XP4400e/DuroMax%20XP4400E.jpg>
It runs 3 hrs per gallon of gasoline. The most common mistake is to
buy too large a generator. Ask me first (via email).

Of course, you could live without electricity:
"Living Alone in the Wild Siberian Forest for 20 years (-71蚓, -96蚌)
Yakutia"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOltGIaDPlY>

Frank Krygowski

unread,

Jan 26, 2023, 2:11:08 PM1/26/23

to

On 1/26/2023 1:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 11:47:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I still have a Coleman fuel lantern hanging in the basement. It needs
>> repair, but I'm not motivated to do that.
>
> If you're planning on storing the Coleman fuel lantern for many years,
> I suggest you drain the fuel out. The fuel will last a long time, but
> it also attracts water, which will corrode the steel parts. A few
> years ago, I bought a new looking Coleman camp stove where the
> previous owner had left fuel in the tank. The bottom on the pump
> assembly on the tank was badly rusted and not repairable. The same
> thing can happen to fuel lanterns.

Sounds like good advice. I just checked and found to my surprise that
the Coleman lantern plus two Coleman camp stoves all have a bit of fuel
in their tanks. I'll drain those soon.

All are left over from our days of car camping with a tent, very long
ago. The Coleman stove was last used at least 10 years ago, when I last
mixed up a batch of chain lube paraffin wax. I don't anticipate using
these things until Tom's predicted total social collapse occurs. ;-)

> I've also modified such small lights by installing a LiPo pocket cell
> battery in place of the three AAA cells. It's not as bright as
> alkaline but good enough for emergency use. The big advantage of LiPo
> and LiIon is LSD (low self discharge). You can charge the battery
> once per year, and it will be ready to use a year later. NiMH cells
> are a close second because the better cells (Eneloop) also offer LSD.
> The problem is that the generic NiMH cells, like the one's I buy, will
> self discharge more rapidly than I would consider acceptable for an
> emergency light. (Remember that bad old days of Zinc-Carbon D cells
> in incandescent flashlights? Whenever I needed an emergency light,
> there was always one available, with dead batteries inside).

I remember those days. For a while in the Zinc-Carbon days, I kept spare
batteries in the refrigerator to slow self discharge. That raised some
eyebrows among guests.

I've thought some about maintaining a "just in case" supply of
rechargeables by using a tiny solar panel. But a small commercial unit,
4 AAs, for just that purpose failed to work when I tested it just a
couple months ago. Maybe 15 year old Ni-Cads aren't really worth
keeping? ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

Catrike Rider

unread,

Jan 26, 2023, 2:27:12 PM1/26/23

to

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 14:11:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski

I have a small gas powered generator from back in my sailing days when
I needed to keep the beer cold and the nav system working. The boat
had "house" batteries, but the fridge and the nav system would drain
it in a day. Running the boat's diesel just to charge the batteries
was a terrible waste of fuel.

Now it'll keep the fridge running along with a few lights... which
reminds me that I have to refill it's gas tank and the one gallon can,
check that it fires up and then clean out the carb.

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Jan 26, 2023, 2:50:55 PM1/26/23

to

Notice that I didn't mention NiCd batteries for backup power. I spent
many years dealing with 2-way radio handhelds that were powered by
NiCd batteries. In my never humble opinion, NiCd batteries are junk
even when new. Due to the NiCd battery ban by the EU in 2016, use of
NiCd batteries in Europe is limited to emergency and some lighting
devices. Some NiCd cells can still be found in the US, but not in
bulk quantities and certainly not for new designs. NiCd is likely to
be banned eventually.

I suggest that you properly dispose of your collection of NiCd cells
and batteries and switch to something safer, less toxic, and offers
better performance.

"Home Depot: How to Dispose of Batteries"
<https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/how-to-dispose-of-batteries/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90124a115f1>

If you want some kind of cheap and simple battery backup, I suggest
you look into various "battery bank" systems designed for powering and
charging cell phones. The 5V USB-A and USB-C connectors are fairly
standard for powering and charging a wide variety of personal gizmos.
The 5V USB connector is quite good for powering emergency LED lights.

"How to make a Powerful USB LED Lamp For Laptop, Mobile Charger &
Power Bank"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PoyTq_laug> (2:40)

However, if you want something that's dynamo powered:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=hand+crank+dynamo&tbm=isch>

Frank Krygowski

unread,

Jan 26, 2023, 7:42:09 PM1/26/23

to

On 1/26/2023 2:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 14:11:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I've thought some about maintaining a "just in case" supply of
>> rechargeables by using a tiny solar panel. But a small commercial unit,
>> 4 AAs, for just that purpose failed to work when I tested it just a
>> couple months ago. Maybe 15 year old Ni-Cads aren't really worth
>> keeping? ;-)
>
> Notice that I didn't mention NiCd batteries for backup power. I spent
> many years dealing with 2-way radio handhelds that were powered by
> NiCd batteries. In my never humble opinion, NiCd batteries are junk
> even when new. Due to the NiCd battery ban by the EU in 2016, use of
> NiCd batteries in Europe is limited to emergency and some lighting
> devices. Some NiCd cells can still be found in the US, but not in
> bulk quantities and certainly not for new designs. NiCd is likely to
> be banned eventually.
>
> I suggest that you properly dispose of your collection of NiCd cells
> and batteries and switch to something safer, less toxic, and offers
> better performance.

Most of mine really do need to go. A fair number of AAA size were
salvaged from the solar yard lights that charm my wife, then become
repair projects for me. Others are really, really old and saved just
because I tend to save things that look potentially useful.

>
> "Home Depot: How to Dispose of Batteries"
> <https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/how-to-dispose-of-batteries/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90124a115f1>

Not a problem here. I can ride down to our library and put them in their
battery recycling bin.

> If you want some kind of cheap and simple battery backup, I suggest
> you look into various "battery bank" systems designed for powering and
> charging cell phones. The 5V USB-A and USB-C connectors are fairly
> standard for powering and charging a wide variety of personal gizmos.
> The 5V USB connector is quite good for powering emergency LED lights.
>
> "How to make a Powerful USB LED Lamp For Laptop, Mobile Charger &
> Power Bank"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PoyTq_laug> (2:40)

And I've got some USB connectors I could use. But when the power is out,
that scheme won't work!

As I said, I've got three small lead acid 12V batteries down in my shop.
One is sized for my motorcycle, one is for the riding lawnmower that the
guy across the street has in his shed. I give each of those a trickle
charge from time to time to keep them alive.

But the most intriguing one was part of a backup system for my previous
modem/router. AT&T shipped me a replacement last year and asked for the
original back, but they said nothing about the backup unit. It's a
Belkin BU3DC001-12V, 12V 3A max output. The battery is a Yuasa NPW36-12,
sealed lead acid. It looks too fancy to throw out or recycle. I've kept
it plugged in, and the battery seems fine. I'm waiting for inspiration.

Perhaps I'll just buy a 12V LED array to attach to it in case the power
goes out. But again, that's such a rare event here I'm not very motivated.

> However, if you want something that's dynamo powered:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=hand+crank+dynamo&tbm=isch>

Ah yes. One of the kids gave me a flashlight some years ago, solar cell
plus hand crank. Unfortunately, it lasted no more than a year.

BTW, I've noticed kids roller skates and skateboards with LED lit
wheels, obviously dynamo powered.

--
- Frank Krygowski

pH

unread,

Jan 27, 2023, 12:00:25 AM1/27/23

to

On 2023-01-25, Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 1/25/2023 1:27 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> When the power went out during last weeks storms...
>>
>> Drivel: Although I have a generator, I only used it a few hours per
>> day to keep the food in the fridge from spoiling. For lighting, I
>> used two Coleman fuel lanterns and one Coleman propane lantern.
>
> I still have a Coleman fuel lantern hanging in the basement. It needs
> repair, but I'm not motivated to do that.
>

I hope you don't throw it out, but give it to a good home when you decide to
part with it.

I have far too many of them and was using one of my Model 220's this
evening. (Green dual mantle). This one is a 220E

Can you describe yours? Ie: how many mantles, colour of ventilator and
tank, etc? (green, red, black, blue, nickel are all possibilities).

Or just the model number if you know that. The date can usually be found
satamped on the bottom of the thank (month/year).
If the tank is nickel, it can be found to the left/right of the Coleman
logo.

If this is all too much trouble, you can just ignore it all, too and I won't
bother you further.

A Coleman Lantern can be used while you work on your BICYCLE at night.
There, I'm on topic.

pH in Aptos

<SNIP>

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 27, 2023, 11:49:38 AM1/27/23

to

No problem. Two mantles, green tank and "lid" (is that the ventilator?),
model 228H

THE COLEMAN COMPANY INC.
WICHITA, KANSAS U.S.A.
9 73

> A Coleman Lantern can be used while you work on your BICYCLE at night.

If there's a power outage!

> There, I'm on topic.

Good job!

(I'm guessing it needs a generator tube. It's been years since I tried
diagnosing it.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

pH

unread,

Jan 27, 2023, 1:57:28 PM1/27/23

to

Thank-you for indulging me. The 228 is the "big hat" version of the 220.
They are nicer when on the table reading. Just a larger diameter ventilator
*(lid) than the 220.

I have four or five stoves...a couple model 500's, which is like a burner
mounted atop a 228 tank. And a few two burner stoves.
I got rid of my three burner...just too big to cart around.

I take my grandfather's (now mine) 415C stove on our camping trips. Yes,
still tent and there a few newer ones.

Bicycle, to stay on topic.

pH

Tom Kunich

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Jan 27, 2023, 6:22:07 PM1/27/23

to

I have a complete camping setup - tent, lantern, stove etc. that I would donate to homeless but they would simply sell it for fentanyl.

Frank Krygowski

unread,

Jan 27, 2023, 6:52:46 PM1/27/23

to

On 1/27/2023 1:57 PM, pH wrote:
>
> Thank-you for indulging me. The 228 is the "big hat" version of the 220.
> They are nicer when on the table reading. Just a larger diameter ventilator
> *(lid) than the 220.
>
> I have four or five stoves...a couple model 500's, which is like a burner
> mounted atop a 228 tank. And a few two burner stoves.
> I got rid of my three burner...just too big to cart around.
>
> I take my grandfather's (now mine) 415C stove on our camping trips. Yes,
> still tent and there a few newer ones.

I love that your grandfather's stove still works. I have this low level
fantasy that when a person buys a device, it should work forever, with
perhaps just a bit of periodic maintenance.

We stopped using these Coleman units way back when we bought a tiny
pop-up camping trailer in 1986. I think our kids have borrowed them a
few times for their own tent camping, but otherwise they've just sat in
basement storage. Well, except for cooking up some chain wax.

> Bicycle, to stay on topic.

The reason for my last sentence above! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

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Jan 29, 2023, 10:41:46 PM1/29/23

to

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 05:00:22 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOS...@gmail.org>
wrote:

>Can you describe yours? Ie: how many mantles, colour of ventilator and
>tank, etc? (green, red, black, blue, nickel are all possibilities).
>
>Or just the model number if you know that. The date can usually be found
>satamped on the bottom of the thank (month/year).
>If the tank is nickel, it can be found to the left/right of the Coleman
>logo.
>

The difficult part was finding where all the lanterns were hiding.

Model Date Type Mantles Notes
290A900 12/88 fuel 2 with case
288 06/84 fuel 2 with case, no globe
5152D700T 10/81 propane 2 no globe
288 10/85 fuel 2
288A 07/90 fuel 2
275A 02/82 fuel 2
Northstar 2500 03/98 propane 1
Unknown model ?? propane 2 Possible clone

When I gave away or sold many of my lanterns, I kept the best for
myself. Most of the above are in almost new condition, except the
275A, which has a design error and is dangerous to operate, and the
"unknown model" which might be a Coleman clone.

None of my lanterns are nickel plated. Drew's Used Tools has several
nickel lanterns in good condition for about $150(?) and painted fount
lanterns for $25 to $50:
<https://www.drewsusedtools.com>

I also have some camp stoves. There's too well buried for me to get
the dates and general condition. All of them need work:

Model Date burners
424 2
425F 2
413F 3
414 3

I also have 4 different backpacking (fuel) stoves including a Coleman
Peak 1 mdoel 400 and a Coleman 530 (1941). They're too well buried
for me to extract them right now.

I'll try to throw together a photo album, but will probably find
something more important to do instead. While you're waiting, this
site has quite a few photos of old Coleman lanterns:
<https://terry-marsh.com>
<https://terry-marsh.com/coleman-us-lanterns-1971-1980/>
<https://terry-marsh.com/coleman-us-lanterns-1981-2000/>

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Jan 29, 2023, 10:58:55 PM1/29/23

to

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 11:49:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/27/2023 12:00 AM, pH wrote:
>No problem. Two mantles, green tank and "lid" (is that the ventilator?),
>model 228H

<https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/files/diagram_page/49/228F.pdf>

The "tank" is called a "fount" and the "lid" is called the "vent".

>THE COLEMAN COMPANY INC.
>WICHITA, KANSAS U.S.A.
>9 73

The date code shows that it was made in Sept 1973.

>(I'm guessing it needs a generator tube. It's been years since I tried
>diagnosing it.)

It probably just needs a cleaning. If it doesn't hold pressure, some
rubber parts replaced.

Lots of tutorials on YouTube:
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=coleman+228+repair>

Parts and pieces:
<https://www.oldcolemanparts.com>

For help, ask here:
<https://www.colemancollectorsforum.com/viewforum.php?f=5>
<https://www.colemancollectorsforum.com>

Frank Krygowski

unread,

Jan 29, 2023, 11:10:28 PM1/29/23

to

On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 10:58:55 PM UTC-5, je...@cruzio.com wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 11:49:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 1/27/2023 12:00 AM, pH wrote:
> >No problem. Two mantles, green tank and "lid" (is that the ventilator?),
> >model 228H
> <https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/files/diagram_page/49/228F.pdf>
>
> The "tank" is called a "fount" and the "lid" is called the "vent".
> >THE COLEMAN COMPANY INC.
> >WICHITA, KANSAS U.S.A.
> >9 73
> The date code shows that it was made in Sept 1973.
> >(I'm guessing it needs a generator tube. It's been years since I tried
> >diagnosing it.)
> It probably just needs a cleaning. If it doesn't hold pressure, some
> rubber parts replaced.

IIRC it does hold pressure. The cleaning advice is too late, since the replacement
generator is on the way. And our niece is very enthusiastic about getting it,
once I fix it!

- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

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Jan 29, 2023, 11:29:10 PM1/29/23

to

On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:41:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

I found another lantern. It looks almost identical to the "unknown
model". Revised list of lanterns.

Model Date Type Mantles Notes
290A900 12/88 fuel 2 with case
288 06/84 fuel 2 with case, no globe
5152D700T 10/81 propane 2 no globe
288 10/85 fuel 2
288A 07/90 fuel 2
275A 02/82 fuel 2
Northstar 2500 03/98 propane 1

5154A700 ???? propane 2
5154A700 ???? propane 2

The last two are new in original boxes. The date code is hidden
between layers of plastic and metal and can only be accessed by
disassembly. There's one more lantern here somewhere...

Jeff Liebermann

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Jan 29, 2023, 11:41:53 PM1/29/23

to

On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:10:27 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>IIRC it does hold pressure. The cleaning advice is too late, since the replacement
>generator is on the way. And our niece is very enthusiastic about getting it,
>once I fix it!

Very good. If you don't like pumping the built in air pump, you can
replace the fuel filler cap with one that has a Schrader valve and use
your floor pump.
<https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/select-your-model-here/SELECT-LANTERN-MODEL/200-thru-220/228-s/228H/Filler-Cap-Tire-Valve-Brass-R261.html>
Made by the Amish. I have two, but have only used them for testing.
If you need to replace the valve core for some reason, be sure to get
a replacement with a fuel resistant Viton seal.

Frank Krygowski

unread,

Jan 30, 2023, 11:44:58 AM1/30/23

to

On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 11:41:53 PM UTC-5, je...@cruzio.com wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:10:27 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >IIRC it does hold pressure. The cleaning advice is too late, since the replacement
> >generator is on the way. And our niece is very enthusiastic about getting it,
> >once I fix it!
> Very good. If you don't like pumping the built in air pump, you can
> replace the fuel filler cap with one that has a Schrader valve and use
> your floor pump.

Our ancient pop-up camping trailer has a sink whose faucet handle acts as a pump for those times we're not
connected to a hose at a campsite. Eventually I put a Schrader valve in the cap of its water tank
to pressurize that system using a tire pump. It worked pretty well for remote camping.

- Frank Krygowski

pH

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Jan 30, 2023, 3:56:32 PM1/30/23

to

I've been wanting to divest myself of some 220's. Tried Craigslist once but
becomes too involved and odd.

I agree that the 275's have a problem with that Schrader-type valve in their
design.
I once got one, fueled it up to test it and it would not turn off! I was
not about to loosen the cap to relieve the pressure, so let it go all night
and use up the fuel.

I suppose if I'd been thinking I could have put it in my small steel trash
can (for coleman emergencies) and pluck it out after it had used up the O2
and extinguished itself.

I'm off topic...I'll stop now and go on a BIKE RIDE.

pH in Aptos

pH

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Jan 30, 2023, 3:57:53 PM1/30/23

to

It pleases me to see these go to a good home rather than the recycle bin.

pH

Jeff Liebermann

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Feb 2, 2023, 5:41:47 PM2/2/23

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On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:56:29 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOS...@gmail.org>
wrote:

>I agree that the 275's have a problem with that Schrader-type valve in their
>design.
>I once got one, fueled it up to test it and it would not turn off! I was
>not about to loosen the cap to relieve the pressure, so let it go all night
>and use up the fuel.

Was yours a Coleman 275 or 275A? The large embossed label on the
fount will say 275 for both models, but the tiny model number printed
on the silver colored band around the valve area will have the correct
model. (There's also a 275-710). As The difference between the 275
and the 275A is that the 275 used a control rod in the air tube to
control the Schrader valve, while the 275A just uses the Schrader
valve as an on/off switch. The problem was that the rod would put
some side pressure on the Schrader valve core, causing it to jam in
the open position. The hook at the end of the control rod insured
that it would stick open. See photos near the bottom of:
<https://terry-marsh.com/coleman-us-lanterns-1971-1980/>
I believe it's possible to fix the 275 by simply making sure that the
control rod is not bent. The 275A doesn't have the problem because
there's no control rod. However, both models could benefit by
replacing the Schrader valve core with one that's designed to operate
in a petroleum environment:
<https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/275-Valve-Core-S66.html>

>I suppose if I'd been thinking I could have put it in my small steel trash
>can (for coleman emergencies) and pluck it out after it had used up the O2
>and extinguished itself.

I have a galvanized steel bucket that I use for removing ashes from
the woodburner. With a lid, it works well at smothering glowing
embers mixed into the ashes. I've haven't tried extinguishing a
lantern fire using this bucket. If you decide to attempt it, please
let me know if you survive.

>I'm off topic...I'll stop now and go on a BIKE RIDE.

Umm... we're talking about bicycle valve cores used in Coleman 275
lanterns. That's somewhat near to bicycle tech.

pH

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Feb 3, 2023, 10:06:47 PM2/3/23

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On 2023-02-02, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

Boy, I don't remember now after all this time. I ended up getting rid of it
promptly.

>>I suppose if I'd been thinking I could have put it in my small steel trash
>>can (for coleman emergencies) and pluck it out after it had used up the O2
>>and extinguished itself.
>
> I have a galvanized steel bucket that I use for removing ashes from
> the woodburner. With a lid, it works well at smothering glowing
> embers mixed into the ashes. I've haven't tried extinguishing a
> lantern fire using this bucket. If you decide to attempt it, please
> let me know if you survive.
>

Luckily, I have not had to use it. I had a model 500 stove that began
leaking fuel at the light/run mixture valve while heating some water.

It was outside and my kids notified me "Hey Dad! There's lots of fire out
there!" I was able to blow it out but it occurred to me that I had been
real lucky. So I got the trash can just in case.

Offtopic: there was a post on ba.mountain-folk. Hope you weigh in.

pH in Aptos

Joy Beeson

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Feb 3, 2023, 11:01:30 PM2/3/23

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On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 04:04:58 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOS...@gmail.org>
wrote:

> I don't have a cellular phone when I ride my bike.
> (Don't have one at all, but had to say 'bike' to stay on topic.)

And I use my cell phone only when riding my bike.

I do carry it whenever I leave the house, even when travelling with
the only person who has the number.

I lie. Just last week I called from Aldi to ask which beers to buy.
I'd gone by car so I could stock up on heavy things.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

John B.

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Feb 4, 2023, 12:28:34 AM2/4/23

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On Fri, 03 Feb 2023 23:01:25 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 04:04:58 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOS...@gmail.org>
>wrote:
>
>> I don't have a cellular phone when I ride my bike.
>> (Don't have one at all, but had to say 'bike' to stay on topic.)
>
>And I use my cell phone only when riding my bike.
>
>I do carry it whenever I leave the house, even when travelling with
>the only person who has the number.
>
>
>I lie. Just last week I called from Aldi to ask which beers to buy.
>I'd gone by car so I could stock up on heavy things.

It's probably a bit on the horror story side but I always carried a
phone when riding a bike. I crashed and broke my pelvis and was
laying there in agony, unable to do more then crawl using my hands and
arms. I crawled off the highway and called my wife who came with the
pickup truck and loaded me and my bike into the truck and drove me to
the hospital.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Jeff Liebermann

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Feb 4, 2023, 12:49:41 AM2/4/23

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On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 03:06:44 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOS...@gmail.org>
wrote:

>I had a model 500 stove that began
>leaking fuel at the light/run mixture valve while heating some water.

The graphite valve stem packing had probably turned to dust.
<https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/select-your-model-here/SELECT-STOVE-MODEL/models-500-and-higher/500-and-500A/Small-valve-stem-packing-P2.html>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/113212489955>

>Offtopic: there was a post on ba.mountain-folk. Hope you weigh in.

Not yet. I saw the posting from Captain Scruggs and your reply. I
ruined the day doing battle with computers, printers and dealing with
firewood. I'm too tired to write a clever reply tonight. Maybe ask
him how to extinguish a Coleman stove fire. I usually have a box of
baking soda handy but have never needed to use it to extinguish a fuel
fire.