'Gold Standard' Review Puts The Final Nail In The Coffin For Masks

[Andre Jute]

Yup! Tom is right again. The mindless clowns in the Krygowski street corner gang who made RBT a sewer for years now with their foolish, failed pursuit of Tom were always wrong, and are still wrong:
Latest 'Gold Standard' Review Puts The Final Nail In The Coffin For Masks
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/scottmorefield/2023/02/05/latest-gold-standard-review-puts-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-for-masks-n2619180
>
Don't hold your breath for apologies from this mannerless scum.
>
Andre Jute
Now listen to the monkeys screech in outrage to have their evil point pointed out and confirmed.
>

[Catrike Rider]

Even with snowbird season in effect here in Florida, face diapers are
rarely seen.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 9:45:38 PM UTC-5, Andre Jute wrote:
> Yup! Tom is right again. The mindless clowns in the Krygowski street corner gang who made RBT a sewer for years now

Who's making this forum a sewer with ignorant political rants? lol.....try the mirror skippy...

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 11:09:54 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/986D_mm3Twk/m/NTbOFqXWAQAJ
>
> This Group would be a far better place without the Stupid five..
> The cite would return to information MOSTLY but not entirely about bicycles as it was when Jobst moderated it.

> with their foolish, failed pursuit of Tom were always wrong, and are still wrong:
> Latest 'Gold Standard' Review Puts The Final Nail In The Coffin For Masks
> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/scottmorefield/2023/02/05/latest-gold-standard-review-puts-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-for-masks-n2619180
> >
> Don't hold your breath for apologies from this mannerless scum.

The only apology that should be offered to this forum should be from your mother.

[John B.]

Way down at the bottom of the actual study referred to by the
afro-Irishman there is a statement:

"What are the limitations of the evidence?
Our confidence in these results is generally low to moderate for the
subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness..."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 06 Feb 2023 18:03:24 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Need to "prove" something? Pay someone to do a study.

[Andre Jute]

We had good advice here on RBT from day one of that unseemly even if worldwide panic known as the COVID Pandemic or the Chinese Plague or whatever you want to call it. But Tom, who'd actually worked in the field, was shouted down by the Krygowski Slime and hounded for not genuflecting to the Credential Commies. Now bit by bit the truth is coming out from the professional literature, and we discover Tom was always right and the RBT clowns were, as always wrong. But from the deafening silence you won't even suspect that these monkeys were smacked in the face with a fish already three days dead. Suddenly it's old news. They don't even have the decency to congratulate Tom on being right so often, never mind to apologise for some of the unforgivable things they said to and about Tom.
>
Andre Jute
Are you surprised I describe them as scum?
>

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 06:51:54 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute

I believe there's going to be some investigations about the mandates
and the lockdowns. although I don't expect any meaningful results.

[Tom Kunich]

After the stupid 4 tell us that I didn't know anything about masks having not only their ineffectiveness shoved in their stupid faces the only answer they will be able to come up with is "this is a bicycle group." This is especially funny when not one of them has the slightest idea how to hold a wrench in their hand.

I would like to see the expressions on their face after the treatment I received at the hands of the stupid 4 when I said that Paul Pelosi was well known in the gay community in the Tenderloin, Then they release the lapel camera footage and there is this guy who obviously had picked up the hammer at the sound of an unexpected doorbell, and Paul Pelosi in their underwear holding hands. The Pelosi went into denial mode and the other guy, shocked hit Pelosi in the head as he walked away from their homosexual interlude.

So the truth will out and one or the other used a "marriage" as cover for their positions of power. Which Family do you suppose had the money before Nancy was elected?

Who do you suppose felt the power of everyone wearing masks, as Gavin Loathsome knowing that masks were useless` went to his upper class luncheon at the French Laundry maskless? I';ll bet that Frank wears a mask around his house and watching TV so that he knows that he is a humble and devoted follower of the great leaders of his party.

[Tom Kunich]

1. The covid-19 virus is 200 times smaller than the breathing pores in an operating room mask
2. The virus is AIRBORNE
3. Lesser masks have not only absolutely NO effect on the virus but are breeding grounds for bacteria and have led to excess deaths among children in the 5t to 18 years old group whose immune systems are still developing.
4 Fauci and the Democrats/Marxists couldn't care less about elevated deaths of children. They wanted masks as nothing more than another NAZI salute.
5. As I've said before this relatively harmless disease was purposely released into the public as the only proof of success of Gain-Of-Function success in increases infectiousness. They never considered that it might be the most infectious disease ever. And they didn't care because normal healthy people were safe from it and only those with serious respiratory problems (this includes heart diseases) would be at risk.
6. None of the vaccines save ANYONE. The claim that the vaccines made the disease less lethal was merely marketing. The LARGE number of excess deaths shows that the vaccines opened pathways for death unseen. the Liver converting the mRNA to DNA means that your body is under constant bombardment of the covid-19 initial variant spike protein. This is poison for your heart and also causes continuing damage to your immune system much like HIV causes AIDS. And like AIDS you get excess deaths that continue to grow as each person's immune system finally fails.

Argue about masks all you like, but they were nothing more than a NAZI salute. If you think that ANY of the upper classes were vaccinated you're quite wrong.

[AMuzi]

+1
Same here, rarely seen in the past three years.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tim R]

On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 10:58:23 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> 1. The covid-19 virus is 200 times smaller than the breathing pores in an operating room mask
> 2. The virus is AIRBORNE

Don't know about the rest of it but I know this is deliberate BS. (Telling an untruth knowingly.)

The virus is small but nobody sneezes viruses. They sneeze gobs of snot with whatever viruses may be present. Potentially a mask will catch some percentage of those. They cough a spray of wet droplets. The reason we get more respiratory illness in the winter is because indoor humidity is lower; the droplets evaporate to smaller sizes that stay airborne longer.

> Argue about masks all you like, but they were nothing more than a NAZI salute. If you think that ANY of the upper classes were vaccinated you're quite wrong.

No. Whether they worked or not, they were a visible expression of caring and compassion for our fellow earth dwellers. Being a good person is not a class distinction. No True Christian went without a mask.

[Frank Krygowski]

We had our semi-annual dentist visits last week. The dentist and all his technicians were wearing masks.

Our physician and his various nurses and assistants still wear masks. And when we get together to play
music, my research virologist friend who's a medical school professor still wears one.

How odd that the medically trained people so often disagree with r.b.tech's right wing!

- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

There is much dissension among medical facility staff but
they do not make the rules and unemployment is the alternate
to compliance.

This is a real and serious situation of opposed values but
resolution is not a scientific pursuit.

[Catrike Rider]

Medical people have to deal with sick people. I don't.

[sms]

On 2/6/2023 3:03 AM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> Way down at the bottom of the actual study referred to by the
> afro-Irishman there is a statement:
>
> "What are the limitations of the evidence?
> Our confidence in these results is generally low to moderate for the
> subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness..."

Then it's perfect evidence for Tom!

I received his business card last week, impressive:
<https://i.imgur.com/WXBWVd9.png>.

--
“How beautiful it is to stay silent when someone expects you to be
enraged.” ― Giada De Laurentiis

[Frank Krygowski]

There certainly is dissension and opposed values, including among
medical staff. But the great bulk of the dissension is ideology based,
not science based.

Last year I had to have a fairly minor medical procedure at a hospital
that's out of our area. During my initial visit a nurse was tasked with
getting my medical history, weight, blood pressure, etc. The
conversation was very pleasant as she did that, until she mentioned her
upcoming vacation to a certain city that was then labeled a COVID hot
spot. When I quietly asked about that, she turned into a Kunich clone,
starting with COVID was all exaggerated, it's all just a conspiracy,
then moving into other Kunich-y topics like immigration, welfare and
more. The transition was astonishing. We gave her no feedback, which
allowed her to rant on. It was obvious she wasn't forming her opinion
based on her medical training.

Skepticism about masks, vaccines and COVID in general correlates very
well with rightward political leanings. And while I haven't seen data, I
suspect the less scientific training a person has, the more skepticism.
Certainly the scientists and physicians I know have all taken COVID and
relevant precautions very seriously.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Since you bring it up:
https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/

"The CDC has admitted it is withholding large portions of
COVID-19 data."

and of course:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/the-experts-lied-to-us-about-masks/

https://reason.com/2022/02/07/that-study-of-face-masks-does-not-show-what-the-cdc-claims/

[John B.]

On the other hand, Thailand where wearing masks is effectively 100% -
I can't remember the last time I saw someone on the street without a
mask - has a Covid sickness rate of 67,457 per 1 million population
and a death rate of 483 per 1 million. While the U.S., in contrast,
has a sickness rate of 312,131/1 million and a death rate of 3,394/1
million. That is nearly 5 times as many cases and 7 times as many
deaths.

And no this is not simply a matter of mask wear but certainly masks
did contribute to the lower sickness and death rate.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

"... because it fears the information could be misinterpreted."

Gosh, ya think? ;-)

> and of course:
> https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/the-experts-lied-to-us-about-masks/
>
> https://reason.com/2022/02/07/that-study-of-face-masks-does-not-show-what-the-cdc-claims/

I'd be more interested in actual professional journal articles, instead
of right-leaning editorials. Those actual journal articles are among the
things my medical professional friends pay attention to.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[pH]

Would this qualify?
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

I have no past knowledge of the cochrane library.

And here is one featuring a European Union committee embarking on some sort
of investigation about the past few years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrbWNfsrMmg
Starts at about the 6:30 mark.

I've never been a masketeer myself, but everyone can do as he likes.

Masks can pre-warm air when BICYCLING in cold weather....ON TOPIC!

pH "Not Really Wanting to Fan Any More Flames" in Aptos

[Catrike Rider]

They could simply report the factual data. Interpreting a fact
requires additional input, or in this case, withholding some of the
data.

It's the CDC that's misinterpreting the data.

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 5:31:07 AM UTC, pH wrote:
>
>Masks can pre-warm air when BICYCLING in cold weather....ON TOPIC!
>

And that's what makes them lethal when they fog up your spectacles at 50kph on a potholed downhill. -- AJ
>

[Andre Jute]

Here we go again with that clown Krygowski's delusion that he has a godgiven presumption to be a gatekeeper, in this case to recast the terms of the conversation to his own advantage.
>
This is a voluntary group, Franki-boy. If you don't like the sources you're given, you can compare them with the sources you prefer and try to prove a lie. You can't, so you whine that you'd rather have sources you prefer, that most won't read, so that you can pretend they agree with your prejudices.
>
The crudity of your motives are pretty transparent to sophisticate people, Franki-boy. We tried your debating tactics in junior high and then left them behind.That these teenage debating trade tricks are now the currency of the Donkey Party -- and yours -- is no skin off us. But you should remember that you're not lecturing to a class of kids who can't wait to have their ticket punched so they can get away from you. We will pull you up short. Shape up or ship out, as you're so fond of telling everyone else.
>
And guess what, this thread is headed in the opening post by a link which in its second par gives a link to a professional overview of professional articles in professional magazines, an example of the everyday professional currency of people who investigated masks instead of just waffling on about them, as Franki-boy has now been doing for years. But that clown Krygowski apparently also has a memory shorter than his credibility as "a spokesman for bicycles" -- and takes a tone of whiny personal outrage about being given what he already has been given. Here's a direct link just for you, Franki-boy, as everyone else has already seen it:
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
I also see that pH in Aptos has given this link, and several others bearing out the same information or supporting information. Everybody can put their hands on the information, except Franki-boy Krygowski!
>
>Andre Jute
I wonder if this worthless jerk Krygowski is deaf as well as obnoxious. Surely someone has told him before not to be so childish?
>

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 8:11:41 AM UTC, Catrike Rider wrote:
>
> They [the CDC] could simply report the factual data. Interpreting a fact

> requires additional input, or in this case, withholding some of the
> data.
>
> It's the CDC that's misinterpreting the data.
>

There's a truism in public relations and in statistics in virtually the same form: "Lying is so much more work, and creates so much extra work to cover up when you're inevitably found out, that professionals of any experience just learn to handle the unpopularity of invariably telling the truth. Those are the survivors in trades that eat their children." There are politer ways of stating it (that one is from a speech I gave to a professional cross-disciplinary body of economists and psychologists in Helsinki more years ago than I care to remember) but it is a widely accepted as the basis for surviving in business or industry.
>
The problem with the CDC is that it is part-financed by the government, so it lies like the government. It is also part-financed by Big Pharma, so it lies like Big Pharma does. Now, I had clients from Big Pharma, but they were stiff-backed family-owned Swiss who were very much aware of their social and humanistic duties, who wouldn't dream of doing what other American and European firms did in the Chinese Plague for their quarterly profits, which is what drives the people for whom CDC lied.
>
The saddest thing here isn't that health bureaucrats lied -- we expect that to such an extent that Tom all along was certain of it -- but that nobody will be punished for lying to the ultimate paymasters, the public.
>
Andre Jute
The Hippocratic Oath includes the commandment and promise: "First of all, do no harm." (Primum non nocere, in a C17 edition I just looked it up in.) Big Pharma apparently read it as, "First of all, look to your quarterly profits."

[Catrike Rider]

When looking at any presentation, it's important to make note of who
benefits from what is being presented.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 6:07:09 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
>

> Need to "prove" something? Pay someone to do a study.

Look no further than andre's link to prove that axiom

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 9:51:56 AM UTC-5, Andre Jute wrote:
>
> >
> We had good advice here on RBT from day one of that unseemly even if worldwide panic known as the COVID Pandemic or the Chinese Plague or whatever you want to call it.

Yup, but it wasn't from you or tom

> But Tom, who'd actually worked in the field

No, he didn't. He was an electronic technician that did some work on motor drives for medical electronics in an electronics lab. He's no more qualified than you to comment, which is to say not at all.

> was shouted down by the Krygowski Slime and hounded for not genuflecting to the Credential Commies. Now bit by bit the truth is coming out from the professional literature

Need to "prove" something? Pay someone to do a study.

> and we discover Tom was always right and the RBT clowns were, as always wrong.

"What are the limitations of the evidence? Our confidence in these results is generally low to moderate for the subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness..."

> But from the deafening silence you won't even suspect that these monkeys were smacked in the face with a fish already three days dead. Suddenly it's old news. They don't even have the decency to congratulate Tom on being right so often, never mind to apologise for some of the unforgivable things they said to and about Tom.

Not only am I not going to congratulate him or apologize, I'll reiterate. You're a useless hypocritical old twat and the only thing tom has more of than ignorance is arrogance. You're both blights to this forum and to society in general.

> >
> Andre Jute
> Are you surprised I describe them as scum?

Fuck off, scum, you're not wanted here.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

That you know of....

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 4:07:29 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> On 2/6/2023 3:03 AM, John B. wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Way down at the bottom of the actual study referred to by the
> > afro-Irishman there is a statement:
> >
> > "What are the limitations of the evidence?
> > Our confidence in these results is generally low to moderate for the
> > subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness..."
> Then it's perfect evidence for Tom!
>
> I received his business card last week, impressive:
> <https://i.imgur.com/WXBWVd9.png>.
>

HAH!...Nice!

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Which makes it pretty clear you've never descended any hill at 50KPH, potholed or not. Moving at even a moderate speed on a bicycle creates enough airflow to prevent glasses from getting fogged up. Yes this is from experience - mountain biking in the woods in the winter wearing a 'gator' mask for warmth, transitioning from single digit paces to much higher - once you're moving the glasses clear. IOW - you know little more about cycling than you do about....pretty much anything.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:46:43 AM UTC-5, Andre Jute wrote:
>
> so you whine that you'd rather have sources you prefer, that most won't read, so that you can pretend they agree with your prejudices.

Talk about irony!

> >
> And guess what, this thread is headed in the opening post by a link which in its second par gives a link to a professional overview of professional articles in professional magazines, an example of the everyday professional currency of people who investigated masks instead of just waffling on about them

and concludes "What are the limitations of the evidence? Our confidence in these results is generally low to moderate for the subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness..."

As usual, the angry little afro-irish troll sharts a link that distorts fact to agree with his prejudices.

, as Franki-boy has now been doing for years. But that clown Krygowski apparently also has a memory shorter than his credibility as "a spokesman for bicycles" -- and takes a tone of whiny personal outrage about being given what he already has been given. Here's a direct link just for you, Franki-boy, as everyone else has already seen it:
> https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
> I also see that pH in Aptos has given this link, and several others bearing out the same information or supporting information. Everybody can put their hands on the information, except Franki-boy Krygowski!

Oh, You mean the report that concludes:
"The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect."

Yeah, that's all the proof anyone needs!

Gawd yer a fucking idiot - and an asshole at that.

> >Andre Jute
> I wonder if this worthless jerk Krygowski is deaf as well as obnoxious.

unlike you?

> Surely someone has told him before not to be so childish?

Grow the fuck up, you naive little rube.

> >

[Andre Jute]

Well, that may be your experience, or it may be "experience" you've conveniently invented in your compulsion to prove everything I say wrong, but it meaningless to me on my bike when I can't see where I'm going because the mask directs my breath onto my spectacles. See, you've given me a ton of reasons not to trust you if you said "Water is wet."
>
Unsigned out of contempt for a netstalker.
>

[Roger Meriman]

Or used a correctly fitted mask to be honest, if your glasses are misting
up it’s fairly obvious that the mask isn’t fitted right, might need to try
a different mask even if lower level if that fits correctly.

But yes might get running eyes, but not misting at speed!

Roger Merriman

[Andre Jute]

> Roger Merman
>
I know, I've tried several types of masks. I even contemplated trying contact lenses again, but they were painful. Anyhow, that's now in the past, as the mask-wearing regulations are. -- AJ
>

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 12:08:48 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:

I could barely tolerate the damned things during the two months my
county required them in grocery stores. I don't understand how anyone
could wear them as they ride bikes.

[Catrike Rider]

Mask wearing regulations *outdoors?* Really? I am so glad I live in
Florida.

[AMuzi]

OK then how about the #1 outlet for international communism
then?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/health/covid-cdc-data.html

[AMuzi]

Besides cyclists, muggers and robbers embrace masks as well.

[AMuzi]

I have never worn one. There are advantages to living in a
redoubt of pre-socialist civilization.

[Catrike Rider]

Dane county or Madison never mandated masks for businesses?

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 6:19:15 AM UTC-5, the angry little afro-irish troll sharted:

> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 11:03:12 AM UTC, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Which makes it pretty clear you've never descended any hill at 50KPH, potholed or not. Moving at even a moderate speed on a bicycle creates enough airflow to prevent glasses from getting fogged up. Yes this is from experience - mountain biking in the woods in the winter wearing a 'gator' mask for warmth, transitioning from single digit paces to much higher - once you're moving the glasses clear. IOW - you know little more about cycling than you do about....pretty much anything.
> >
> Well, that may be your experience,

It's anyone's experience whose ever ridden in the cold wearing a mask

> or it may be "experience" you've conveniently invented in your compulsion to prove everything I say wrong

Inventing experience is your and tommy's shtick, not mine.

> but it meaningless to me on my bike when I can't see where I'm going because the mask directs my breath onto my spectacles.

'you must be andre, you're doing it wrong'

> See, you've given me a ton of reasons not to trust you if you said "Water is wet."

Again, your shtick, not mine.

> >
> Unsigned out of contempt for a netstalker.

ON NO!!! NOT UNSIGNED OUT OF CONTEMPT!!!!!

lol - sure skippy, I'm the netstalker, yet your the one who has your lackey "frequently analyze my posts":

In https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cIy0DJaWYMg/m/Q1zbKmVxBAAJ the angry little afro-irish troll sharted

"5. Etc. Frequency analysis of his posts by my assistant (who's now got her PhD and is preparing to move on to her grand new job in Frankfurt, so I have to find papers on my own, for which inconvenience I'll kick Flunky in the nuts every time I see him, irrational but that's how he treats people) revealed a long list of his fears, but they're pretty obvious, so I won't bore you with the full list, which is in a file drawer somewhere."

I'll be in Brandon this fall. You'll get your chance, poofter.

[Roger Meriman]

I wouldn’t after all ventilation works! In many ways masks are cheap and
probably less effective than buildings having good ventilation.

If I was going from shop to shop during those times I tended to keep the
mask on as well I’m used to them from work, and less hassle than consistent
putting on/off.

Roger Merriman

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Yes, in Ireland where he lives. And remember, he said very recently "I like where I live" - masking regulations, strict gun control, "Green" legislation, socialized medicine - a virtual commie pinko's paradise.

> I am so glad I live in
> Florida.

so am I.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 06:04:55 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"

<grin>

[Rolf Mantel]

Skiing in Austria, FFP2 masks were required in the ski lifts where
you're unable to keep 4ft distance from random strangers.
Several people quickly realized that a mask was a reasonably good
substitute for a face scarf when skiing at moderate effort.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 15:21:56 +0100, Rolf Mantel <ne...@hartig-mantel.de>
wrote:

I can understand that. I have worn a ski mask while downhill skiing.

[AMuzi]

Moved my business ten years ago. And sold my house. I almost
never cross that county line now.

[Tom Kunich]

On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 3:58:47 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Feb 2023 13:34:27 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 2/6/2023 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

> >> On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 11:24:36 AM UTC-5, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 10:58:23 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> 1. The covid-19 virus is 200 times smaller than the breathing pores in an operating room mask
> >>>> 2. The virus is AIRBORNE
> >>> Don't know about the rest of it but I know this is deliberate BS. (Telling an untruth knowingly.)
> >>>
> >>> The virus is small but nobody sneezes viruses. They sneeze gobs of snot with whatever viruses may be present. Potentially a mask will catch some percentage of those. They cough a spray of wet droplets. The reason we get more respiratory illness in the winter is because indoor humidity is lower; the droplets evaporate to smaller sizes that stay airborne longer.
> >>>> Argue about masks all you like, but they were nothing more than a NAZI salute. If you think that ANY of the upper classes were vaccinated you're quite wrong.
> >>> No. Whether they worked or not, they were a visible expression of caring and compassion for our fellow earth dwellers. Being a good person is not a class distinction. No True Christian went without a mask.
> >>

> >> We had our semi-annual dentist visits last week. The dentist and all his technicians were wearing masks.
> >>
> >> Our physician and his various nurses and assistants still wear masks. And when we get together to play
> >> music, my research virologist friend who's a medical school professor still wears one.
> >>
> >> How odd that the medically trained people so often disagree with r.b.tech's right wing!
> >>
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >>
> >
> >There is much dissension among medical facility staff but
> >they do not make the rules and unemployment is the alternate
> >to compliance.
> >
> >This is a real and serious situation of opposed values but
> >resolution is not a scientific pursuit.

> On the other hand, Thailand where wearing masks is effectively 100% -
> I can't remember the last time I saw someone on the street without a
> mask - has a Covid sickness rate of 67,457 per 1 million population
> and a death rate of 483 per 1 million. While the U.S., in contrast,
> has a sickness rate of 312,131/1 million and a death rate of 3,394/1
> million. That is nearly 5 times as many cases and 7 times as many
> deaths.
>
> And no this is not simply a matter of mask wear but certainly masks
> did contribute to the lower sickness and death rate.

John, rather than arguing with me about this I suggest you look at the video's of Dr. Been on you tube who shows the shocking numbers that a natural infection of the unvaccinated gives you up to 97% protection for a year and at least 3 years before that immunity drops to 30%. The BEST immunity from the vaccines is 30% and sinking to -10% in three months. That means that the vaccines make you both more liable to get covid-19 if you are vaccinated and more likely to get both long term and serious covid-19. Talking about masks in a largely unvaccinated population doesn't get you anywhere. And remember, more than half the people are asymptomatic infected and the rest other than a very small group only suffer symptoms very like a cold. My infection was symptomatic for 3 days and then perhaps another 4 days feeling punk.

[Tom Kunich]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 12:11:41 AM UTC-8, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 21:28:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski

> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 2/6/2023 5:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 2/6/2023 3:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

> >>> On 2/6/2023 2:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 2/6/2023 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We had our semi-annual dentist visits last week. The
> >>>>> dentist and all his technicians were wearing masks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Our physician and his various nurses and assistants still
> >>>>> wear masks. And when we get together to play
> >>>>> music, my research virologist friend who's a medical
> >>>>> school professor still wears one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How odd that the medically trained people so often
> >>>>> disagree with r.b.tech's right wing!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> There is much dissension among medical facility staff but
> >>>> they do not make the rules and unemployment is the
> >>>> alternate to compliance.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a real and serious situation of opposed values but
> >>>> resolution is not a scientific pursuit.
> >>>

> They could simply report the factual data. Interpreting a fact

> requires additional input, or in this case, withholding some of the
> data.
>
> It's the CDC that's misinterpreting the data.

> >> and of course:
> >> https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/the-experts-lied-to-us-about-masks/
> >>
> >> https://reason.com/2022/02/07/that-study-of-face-masks-does-not-show-what-the-cdc-claims/
> >
> >I'd be more interested in actual professional journal articles, instead
> >of right-leaning editorials. Those actual journal articles are among the
> >things my medical professional friends pay attention to.

That is completely beyond the understanding of Frank. Studies on masks have been common and comprehensive. All he would have to do is look them up. Before covid-19 the entire consensus was that masks don't work and even Fauci was recorded saying that. After Biden took office suddenly dozens of studies showed exactly the opposite of the previous studies. Even the Biden EPA got in on the lies with results that strangely mirrored the results of the Quatar study on the effectiveness of the vaccines 28 days after the first two shots. But then Krygowski suffers from the inability to disagree with the Biden administration. He still is firmly believing their claim that that was nothing more than a Chinese weather balloon blown off course.

[Tom Kunich]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 1:46:43 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:

> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 2:29:02 AM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/6/2023 5:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >
> > > Since you bring it up:
> > > https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/
> > >
> > > "The CDC has admitted it is withholding large portions of COVID-19 data."
> > "... because it fears the information could be misinterpreted."
> >
> > Gosh, ya think? ;-)

> > > and of course:
> > > https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/the-experts-lied-to-us-about-masks/
> > >
> > > https://reason.com/2022/02/07/that-study-of-face-masks-does-not-show-what-the-cdc-claims/
> > I'd be more interested in actual professional journal articles, instead
> > of right-leaning editorials. Those actual journal articles are among the
> > things my medical professional friends pay attention to.
> >

> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> Here we go again with that clown Krygowski's delusion that he has a godgiven presumption to be a gatekeeper, in this case to recast the terms of the conversation to his own advantage.
> >
> This is a voluntary group, Franki-boy. If you don't like the sources you're given, you can compare them with the sources you prefer and try to prove a lie. You can't, so you whine that you'd rather have sources you prefer, that most won't read, so that you can pretend they agree with your prejudices.
> >
> The crudity of your motives are pretty transparent to sophisticate people, Franki-boy. We tried your debating tactics in junior high and then left them behind.That these teenage debating trade tricks are now the currency of the Donkey Party -- and yours -- is no skin off us. But you should remember that you're not lecturing to a class of kids who can't wait to have their ticket punched so they can get away from you. We will pull you up short. Shape up or ship out, as you're so fond of telling everyone else.
> >
> And guess what, this thread is headed in the opening post by a link which in its second par gives a link to a professional overview of professional articles in professional magazines, an example of the everyday professional currency of people who investigated masks instead of just waffling on about them, as Franki-boy has now been doing for years. But that clown Krygowski apparently also has a memory shorter than his credibility as "a spokesman for bicycles" -- and takes a tone of whiny personal outrage about being given what he already has been given. Here's a direct link just for you, Franki-boy, as everyone else has already seen it:

> https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
> I also see that pH in Aptos has given this link, and several others bearing out the same information or supporting information. Everybody can put their hands on the information, except Franki-boy Krygowski!
> >

> >Andre Jute
> I wonder if this worthless jerk Krygowski is deaf as well as obnoxious. Surely someone has told him before not to be so childish?
> >

This is simply because Krygowski love Biden to the point that he would marry him if he were not previously taken. Biden cannot do anything wrong and that is all there is for him to say. So he will lie about anything and everything in an attempt to protect his one true love in life.

[Tom Kunich]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 2:13:08 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 8:11:41 AM UTC, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >
> > They [the CDC] could simply report the factual data. Interpreting a fact

> > requires additional input, or in this case, withholding some of the
> > data.
> >
> > It's the CDC that's misinterpreting the data.
> >

> There's a truism in public relations and in statistics in virtually the same form: "Lying is so much more work, and creates so much extra work to cover up when you're inevitably found out, that professionals of any experience just learn to handle the unpopularity of invariably telling the truth. Those are the survivors in trades that eat their children." There are politer ways of stating it (that one is from a speech I gave to a professional cross-disciplinary body of economists and psychologists in Helsinki more years ago than I care to remember) but it is a widely accepted as the basis for surviving in business or industry.
> >
> The problem with the CDC is that it is part-financed by the government, so it lies like the government. It is also part-financed by Big Pharma, so it lies like Big Pharma does. Now, I had clients from Big Pharma, but they were stiff-backed family-owned Swiss who were very much aware of their social and humanistic duties, who wouldn't dream of doing what other American and European firms did in the Chinese Plague for their quarterly profits, which is what drives the people for whom CDC lied.
> >
> The saddest thing here isn't that health bureaucrats lied -- we expect that to such an extent that Tom all along was certain of it -- but that nobody will be punished for lying to the ultimate paymasters, the public.
> >
> Andre Jute
> The Hippocratic Oath includes the commandment and promise: "First of all, do no harm." (Primum non nocere, in a C17 edition I just looked it up in.) Big Pharma apparently read it as, "First of all, look to your quarterly profits."

The Hypocritic Oath has never stopped Fauci or so much as slowed him down.

[Tom Kunich]

On his best day Flunky's IQ has never reached average.

[Tom Kunich]

N95 masks 3ere never meant to protect the wearer. They were meant to be used in operating rooms to protect a patient from a OR doctor coughing bacteria into an open wound.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 9:01:16 AM UTC-5, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> ON NO!!! NOT UNSIGNED OUT OF CONTEMPT!!!!!

:-)

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 11:31:43 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 21:28:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > >I'd be more interested in actual professional journal articles, instead
> > >of right-leaning editorials. Those actual journal articles are among the
> > >things my medical professional friends pay attention to.
> That is completely beyond the understanding of Frank. Studies on masks have been common and comprehensive. All he would have to do is look them up.

All you would have to do is give proper citations. But you never do that, do you?

- Frank Krygowski

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

For once tommy got something right. I've never dipped below the 99.8th percentile.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

I'm quite sure the Hypocritic Oath never had any effect on Fauci. You seem to be rather loyal to it, however.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Yeah John, you better watch yourself. IF you don't get back to criticizing Frank tommy's gonna put you back on the "stupid" list!

[Frank Krygowski]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 12:31:07 AM UTC-5, pH wrote:

> On 2023-02-07, Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > I'd be more interested in actual professional journal articles, instead
> > of right-leaning editorials. Those actual journal articles are among the
> > things my medical professional friends pay attention to.
> >

> Would this qualify?
> https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
>
> I have no past knowledge of the cochrane library.

I do. Cochrane studies are aggregations of other studies. The hope is more or less that
by collecting data from a wide range of studies, the overall results may overcome the various
weaknesses of individual studies. I'm a bit skeptical of the fundamental idea, in part because
I'm aware of Cochrane studies whose authors aggregated studies they agreed with, but
rejected studies they didn't agree with. The sampling of studies itself was biased. Selection
criteria for studies are always stated, but it's possible to deliberately obscure bias. And even
without deliberate bias, it's possible for a couple of badly done studies to "outvote" a well done study.

In this case, it's noteworthy that the authors of the study stated "The high risk of bias in the trials,
variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the
studies hampers drawing firm conclusions" and later "The observed lack of effect of mask wearing
in interrupting the spread of influenza‐like illness (ILI) or influenza/COVID‐19 in our review has many
potential reasons, including: poor study design; insufficiently powered studies arising from low viral
circulation in some studies; lower adherence with mask wearing, especially amongst children... [etc.]"
I don't doubt that if few people wear masks, masking will seem ineffective.

And to state my position: I'm not one who believes masks are magic. I did use them when and where
I was asked to. (I think a retail outlet has the right to ask that, just as they ask for shirts and shoes to
be worn.) And I have been in situations where more careful people did wear them, yet I did not. To me,
it's yet again a question of benefits vs. detriments. The benefits may have been smaller than hoped
(and that's not yet clear) but the personal detriments were very close to zero.

> And here is one featuring a European Union committee embarking on some sort
> of investigation about the past few years.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrbWNfsrMmg
> Starts at about the 6:30 mark.

Sorry, that's a fact-free rant.

- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

It's been three years already of the same results in many
iterations. Facts have not changed, wishes notwithstanding.

Here's a recent one:
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

[sms]

On 2/7/2023 2:56 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:

<snip>

> HAH!...Nice!

Unfortunately, it changes as we learn that he is an expert on even more
issues, <https://i.imgur.com/GZQSTp4.png>.
--
“How beautiful it is to stay silent when someone expects you to be
enraged.” ― Giada De Laurentiis

[Tom Kunich]

I will explain this again. Because of the large percentage of a population that are asymptomatic you cannot assume masks work by using population studies. The Swedish entire population study was an exception. They did not wear masks except small numbers voluntarily and their incidence of covid-19 was no different than Finland that did wear masks. Common people, common weather, common incidence of infection. Why do you suppose that Flunky, Krygowski, Liebermann and Scharf have an internal need for a piece of paper to protect them from illness?

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

And the conclusion didn't change either "The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect."

IOW - there's no 'there' there.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 3:23:36 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> On 2/7/2023 2:56 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > HAH!...Nice!
>
> Unfortunately, it changes as we learn that he is an expert on even more
> issues, <https://i.imgur.com/GZQSTp4.png>.

The list goes on - we could add Light Line specialist and PWM Cable testing, but those might be a bit esoteric. Tommy's gonna need a bigger wallet to carry that card around.

[Catrike Rider]

There's no Yellow Jersey on State Street any more? Well, I wouldn't
have a business there either.

[Radey Shouman]

Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com> writes:

> funkma...@hotmail.com <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:17:16 AM UTC-5, Andre Jute wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 5:31:07 AM UTC, pH wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Masks can pre-warm air when BICYCLING in cold weather....ON TOPIC!
>>>>
>>> And that's what makes them lethal when they fog up your spectacles at
>>> 50kph on a potholed downhill. -- AJ
>>>>
>> Which makes it pretty clear you've never descended any hill at 50KPH,
>> potholed or not. Moving at even a moderate speed on a bicycle creates
>> enough airflow to prevent glasses from getting fogged up. Yes this is
>> from experience - mountain biking in the woods in the winter wearing a
>> 'gator' mask for warmth, transitioning from single digit paces to much
>> higher - once you're moving the glasses clear. IOW - you know little more
>> about cycling than you do about....pretty much anything.
>>
> Or used a correctly fitted mask to be honest, if your glasses are misting
> up it’s fairly obvious that the mask isn’t fitted right, might need to try
> a different mask even if lower level if that fits correctly.
>
> But yes might get running eyes, but not misting at speed!

I think Mr. Jute favors a sedate, dignified pace, so I can believe him.

Last Saturday I went for a short ride, it was about -7F. Having
recently packed up my closet so that some flooring could be installed, I
could not find my goggles. My mask did cause my glasses to frost up, to
the point that I had to take them off. Perhaps there are masks that are
sufficiently well fitted to prevent this, but I have never had one.
Goggles, on the other hand, are highly recommended for seriously cold
weather.

I wasn't going 50 kph, or, probably, even 20 kph. At 50 kph I'm sure I
would have been frostbit.

It rose above 40F the next day, good for those who like variety.

[Radey Shouman]

AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:

> On 2/6/2023 11:31 PM, pH wrote:
>> On 2023-02-07, Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>>> On 2/6/2023 5:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:

>>>> On 2/6/2023 3:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

>>>>> On 2/6/2023 2:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/6/2023 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We had our semi-annual dentist visits last week. The
>>>>>>> dentist and all his technicians were wearing masks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our physician and his various nurses and assistants still
>>>>>>> wear masks. And when we get together to play
>>>>>>> music, my research virologist friend who's a medical
>>>>>>> school professor still wears one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How odd that the medically trained people so often
>>>>>>> disagree with r.b.tech's right wing!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is much dissension among medical facility staff but
>>>>>> they do not make the rules and unemployment is the
>>>>>> alternate to compliance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a real and serious situation of opposed values but
>>>>>> resolution is not a scientific pursuit.
>>>>>

>>>>> There certainly is dissension and opposed values, including
>>>>> among medical staff. But the great bulk of the dissension is
>>>>> ideology based, not science based.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last year I had to have a fairly minor medical procedure at
>>>>> a hospital that's out of our area. During my initial visit a
>>>>> nurse was tasked with getting my medical history, weight,
>>>>> blood pressure, etc. The conversation was very pleasant as
>>>>> she did that, until she mentioned her upcoming vacation to a
>>>>> certain city that was then labeled a COVID hot spot. When I
>>>>> quietly asked about that, she turned into a Kunich clone,
>>>>> starting with COVID was all exaggerated, it's all just a
>>>>> conspiracy, then moving into other Kunich-y topics like
>>>>> immigration, welfare and more. The transition was
>>>>> astonishing. We gave her no feedback, which allowed her to
>>>>> rant on. It was obvious she wasn't forming her opinion based
>>>>> on her medical training.
>>>>>
>>>>> Skepticism about masks, vaccines and COVID in general
>>>>> correlates very well with rightward political leanings. And
>>>>> while I haven't seen data, I suspect the less scientific
>>>>> training a person has, the more skepticism. Certainly the
>>>>> scientists and physicians I know have all taken COVID and
>>>>> relevant precautions very seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>

>>>> Since you bring it up:
>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/
>>>>
>>>> "The CDC has admitted it is withholding large portions of COVID-19 data."
>>>
>>> "... because it fears the information could be misinterpreted."
>>>
>>> Gosh, ya think? ;-)
>>>
>>>> and of course:
>>>> https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/the-experts-lied-to-us-about-masks/
>>>>
>>>> https://reason.com/2022/02/07/that-study-of-face-masks-does-not-show-what-the-cdc-claims/
>>>

>>> I'd be more interested in actual professional journal articles, instead
>>> of right-leaning editorials. Those actual journal articles are among the
>>> things my medical professional friends pay attention to.
>>>
>>

>> Would this qualify?
>> https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
>>
>> I have no past knowledge of the cochrane library.
>>

>> And here is one featuring a European Union committee embarking on some sort
>> of investigation about the past few years.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrbWNfsrMmg
>> Starts at about the 6:30 mark.
>>

>> I've never been a masketeer myself, but everyone can do as he likes.

>>
>> Masks can pre-warm air when BICYCLING in cold weather....ON TOPIC!
>>

>> pH "Not Really Wanting to Fan Any More Flames" in Aptos
>>
>
> Besides cyclists, muggers and robbers embrace masks as well.

They were a boon for mostly peaceful arsonists.

[John B.]

Somewhere I read about that, "Now it's O.K. to go into a bank with a
mask on" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

OK I'll give you that methodology for mask effectiveness is
wanting on all counts, inherently.
Then again there wasn't evidence for a positive result either.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertpearl/2021/08/10/what-the-cdc-isnt-telling-you-about-masks-is-terrifying/

Uncertainty didn't stop The Powers That Be from proclaiming,
"You don't need a mask[1]" then "You should wear a mask[2]"
and then even, "Two Masks[3]".

https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals-1596703

Followed by various State and local martinets who adopted
mandatry face rag rules.



[1] Dr Fauci, Feb. 4, 2020, "I do not recommend that you
wear a mask"
[2] Dr Fauci, Mar 8, 2020, “There’s no reason to be walking
around with a mask”
[3] Dr Fauci, January 25, 2021,"Two face masks are better
than one." Also that date, "CDC recommends that people wear
masks that have 'two or more layers of washable, breathable
fabric.'

https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/fauci-emails-show-his-flip-flopping-on-wearing-masks-to-fight-covid/

https://nypost.com/2021/01/25/fauci-wearing-two-masks-is-better-than-one/

This is exemplary disinformation and effective social
control but it is surely unrelated to scientific inquiry.

[John B.]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 07:29:53 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/7/2023 6:42 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 12:08:48 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>

>>> funkma...@hotmail.com <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:17:16 AM UTC-5, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 5:31:07 AM UTC, pH wrote:
>>>>>>

>>>>>> Masks can pre-warm air when BICYCLING in cold weather....ON TOPIC!
>>>>>>

>>>>> And that's what makes them lethal when they fog up your spectacles at
>>>>> 50kph on a potholed downhill. -- AJ
>>>>>>
>>>> Which makes it pretty clear you've never descended any hill at 50KPH,
>>>> potholed or not. Moving at even a moderate speed on a bicycle creates
>>>> enough airflow to prevent glasses from getting fogged up. Yes this is
>>>> from experience - mountain biking in the woods in the winter wearing a
>>>> 'gator' mask for warmth, transitioning from single digit paces to much
>>>> higher - once you're moving the glasses clear. IOW - you know little more
>>>> about cycling than you do about....pretty much anything.
>>>>
>>> Or used a correctly fitted mask to be honest, if your glasses are misting
>>> up it’s fairly obvious that the mask isn’t fitted right, might need to try
>>> a different mask even if lower level if that fits correctly.
>>>
>>> But yes might get running eyes, but not misting at speed!
>>>

>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I could barely tolerate the damned things during the two months my
>> county required them in grocery stores. I don't understand how anyone
>> could wear them as they ride bikes.
>>
>
>I have never worn one. There are advantages to living in a
>redoubt of pre-socialist civilization.

No Social Security, No Aid to Unwed Mothers, No Unemployment, No
Medicare (whatever you call it), No forgiving collage loan repayments,
No Food Stamps?

Where is it that you reside? The Moon?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Yes, that's right.
You might, since you carry. I don't any longer, no need.
No one wants to become George Zimmerman.

[John B.]

and way down at the bottom of the report there are comments such as:

"The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome
measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions

during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. "

"There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to

moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect
estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from
the observed estimate of the effect. "

"There is a need for large, well-designed RCTs addressing the
effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and
populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness,
especially in those most at risk of ARIs."

"Key messages
We are uncertain whether wearing masks or N95/P2 respirators helps to
slow the spread of respiratory viruses based on the studies we
assessed."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2023 06:20:28 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

My county, Pasco, had a couple months of mask mandates in public
businesses, but shopping some of the more rural counties to the north
did not.

[John B.]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 08:16:11 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 3:58:47 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Feb 2023 13:34:27 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2/6/2023 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 11:24:36 AM UTC-5, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>> On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 10:58:23 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>> 1. The covid-19 virus is 200 times smaller than the breathing pores in an operating room mask
>> >>>> 2. The virus is AIRBORNE
>> >>> Don't know about the rest of it but I know this is deliberate BS. (Telling an untruth knowingly.)
>> >>>
>> >>> The virus is small but nobody sneezes viruses. They sneeze gobs of snot with whatever viruses may be present. Potentially a mask will catch some percentage of those. They cough a spray of wet droplets. The reason we get more respiratory illness in the winter is because indoor humidity is lower; the droplets evaporate to smaller sizes that stay airborne longer.
>> >>>> Argue about masks all you like, but they were nothing more than a NAZI salute. If you think that ANY of the upper classes were vaccinated you're quite wrong.
>> >>> No. Whether they worked or not, they were a visible expression of caring and compassion for our fellow earth dwellers. Being a good person is not a class distinction. No True Christian went without a mask.
>> >>

>> >> We had our semi-annual dentist visits last week. The dentist and all his technicians were wearing masks.
>> >>
>> >> Our physician and his various nurses and assistants still wear masks. And when we get together to play
>> >> music, my research virologist friend who's a medical school professor still wears one.
>> >>
>> >> How odd that the medically trained people so often disagree with r.b.tech's right wing!
>> >>
>> >> - Frank Krygowski
>> >>
>> >
>> >There is much dissension among medical facility staff but
>> >they do not make the rules and unemployment is the alternate
>> >to compliance.
>> >
>> >This is a real and serious situation of opposed values but
>> >resolution is not a scientific pursuit.

>> On the other hand, Thailand where wearing masks is effectively 100% -
>> I can't remember the last time I saw someone on the street without a
>> mask - has a Covid sickness rate of 67,457 per 1 million population
>> and a death rate of 483 per 1 million. While the U.S., in contrast,
>> has a sickness rate of 312,131/1 million and a death rate of 3,394/1
>> million. That is nearly 5 times as many cases and 7 times as many
>> deaths.
>>
>> And no this is not simply a matter of mask wear but certainly masks
>> did contribute to the lower sickness and death rate.
>
>John, rather than arguing with me about this I suggest you look at the video's of Dr. Been on you tube who shows the shocking numbers that a natural infection of the unvaccinated gives you up to 97% protection for a year and at least 3 years before that immunity drops to 30%. The BEST immunity from the vaccines is 30% and sinking to -10% in three months. That means that the vaccines make you both more liable to get covid-19 if you are vaccinated and more likely to get both long term and serious covid-19. Talking about masks in a largely unvaccinated population doesn't get you anywhere. And remember, more than half the people are asymptomatic infected and the rest other than a very small group only suffer symptoms very like a cold. My infection was symptomatic for 3 days and then perhaps another 4 days feeling punk.

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say? That having a disease
gives you immunity? If that is what you are going on about then Yes,
and having "cow pox" makes you immune to "small pox".

Or is it that Covid doesn't cause death? If so then what did the
1,136,779 people in the U.S. die from?


--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

I don't carry too often. Only when I'm going to or through a higher
crime area. If I had a business with public access, I'd carry every
day, and just like on the bike, concealed, but still obvious.

[Tom Kunich]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:42:34 AM UTC-8, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 12:08:48 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
> >funkma...@hotmail.com <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:17:16 AM UTC-5, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 5:31:07 AM UTC, pH wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Masks can pre-warm air when BICYCLING in cold weather....ON TOPIC!
> >>>>
> >>> And that's what makes them lethal when they fog up your spectacles at
> >>> 50kph on a potholed downhill. -- AJ
> >>>>
> >> Which makes it pretty clear you've never descended any hill at 50KPH,
> >> potholed or not. Moving at even a moderate speed on a bicycle creates
> >> enough airflow to prevent glasses from getting fogged up. Yes this is
> >> from experience - mountain biking in the woods in the winter wearing a
> >> 'gator' mask for warmth, transitioning from single digit paces to much
> >> higher - once you're moving the glasses clear. IOW - you know little more
> >> about cycling than you do about....pretty much anything.
> >>
> >Or used a correctly fitted mask to be honest, if your glasses are misting
> >up it’s fairly obvious that the mask isn’t fitted right, might need to try
> >a different mask even if lower level if that fits correctly.
> >
> >But yes might get running eyes, but not misting at speed!
> >
> >Roger Merriman
> I could barely tolerate the damned things during the two months my
> county required them in grocery stores. I don't understand how anyone
> could wear them as they ride bikes.

Since I have a breathing problem they couldn't force them on me.

[AMuzi]

Right.
I have never worn a mask, didn't sign up for old people's
'benefits', never borrowed money for tuition, never went on
relief and as far as I know I've never been pregnant.

Here in Columbia county WI and at girlfriend's place in
Richland County that mask thing never caught on. When bars
and restaurants were ordered closed, the urban places obeyed.

There's a chinese aphorism, "The mountain is high and the
emperor is far away."

[Catrike Rider]

I haven't seen one out on my bike rides for quite a while, now, but
every now and then I'll see someone wearing one all alone in their
car.

[John B.]

I was replying to Andrew's reference to "pre-socialist
civilization":-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Why has covid-19 killed extremely low numbers in Africa that also has almost no vaccinations? How many times have I expla8ined that perhaps ALL of the excess deaths were caused by 1. the 0.01% that have extreme sensitivity to respiratory diseases, generally via several heart diseases or 2. the vaccines. Every study is turning up more and more fatalities from the vaccines. If you actually believe that covid-19 killed over a million people when it is so minor that over half of the people that contract it don't even know they have it and most of the rest have only mild flu-like symptoms.

How many medical authorities have to say that the vaccines are causing the excess deaths before you believe them?

Have you been vaccinated and are so afraid that the vaccines may kill you, that you want to deny it? At this point aren't you old enough that it doesn't much matter?

[John B.]

:-) But you referred to a"pre-socialist civilization" not to
individual idiosyncrasies.

But that aside I had read that "social security and Medicare taxes"
were mandatory?


--
Cheers,

John B.

[Radey Shouman]

+1

Masks were above all a signal of obedience to authority, which is
probably why authorities liked them so much. A dog collar, pink tutu,
or brand on the forehead saying "I'm not a troublemaker" would have done
just as much to contain covid.


--

[Catrike Rider]

+2

[John B.]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 16:24:44 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

Yes, I've had the two shots vaccination, but more to the point in
Thailand some 82% of the population has received one shot and 77% have
received the full immunization. Singapore 92% of the population is
fully immunized, Chile has completely immunized 90% of the population
and China has fully immunized 91% of their population.

So, if your thesis that the immunization causes deaths is correct then
the roads in those countries must be littered with dead bodies.

But they aren't and in fact fully immunized Chinese are flooding into
Thailand for their holidays. 300,000 expected in the first 3 months
this year :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

The County line near me is as dramatic a cultural break as
at Checkpoint Charlie.

[AMuzi]

Oh, I paid the taxes (both sides and on huge payrolls for
several decades).

I didn't sign up for the SSA payments or the Medicare racket
either.

[AMuzi]

>> [2] Dr Fauci, Mar 8, 2020, “There’s no reason to be walking around
>> with a maskâ€

>> [3] Dr Fauci, January 25, 2021,"Two face masks are better than one."
>> Also that date, "CDC recommends that people wear masks that have 'two
>> or more layers of washable, breathable fabric.'
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/fauci-emails-show-his-flip-flopping-on-wearing-masks-to-fight-covid/
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2021/01/25/fauci-wearing-two-masks-is-better-than-one/
>>
>> This is exemplary disinformation and effective social control but it
>> is surely unrelated to scientific inquiry.
>
> +1
>
> Masks were above all a signal of obedience to authority, which is
> probably why authorities liked them so much. A dog collar, pink tutu,
> or brand on the forehead saying "I'm not a troublemaker" would have done
> just as much to contain covid.
>
>

+1

The whole point is to visibly sort those who will obey, no
matter how ridiculous a mandate, from those who will not.

[AMuzi]

Hmm. Let's score China's Sinovax:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20993635/satellite-pics-china-covid-death-toll-25000-a-day/


Sinovax is among the least effective shots and almost none
of them[1] are actual vaccines (vaccine = something which
prevents disease and/or contagion).

Redefining the word 'vaccine' is not a scientific inquiry,
it's propaganda. Sinovax, Pfizer mRNA jab etc.

[1]J&J is an attenuated adenovirus but more effective
against the similar Wuhan bioweapon virus than the mRNA
approach for prevention and contagion:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abk0172

[John B.]

I hesitate to poke fun at your reference but the number of deaths in
China, annually, reference
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1098319/china-number-of-deaths/
seems to be 10.41 million, or 28,520.5 deaths per day and we should
believe that only 12% were due to non-Covid causes?

>
>Sinovax is among the least effective shots and almost none
>of them[1] are actual vaccines (vaccine = something which
>prevents disease and/or contagion).
>
>Redefining the word 'vaccine' is not a scientific inquiry,
>it's propaganda. Sinovax, Pfizer mRNA jab etc.
>
>[1]J&J is an attenuated adenovirus but more effective
>against the similar Wuhan bioweapon virus than the mRNA
>approach for prevention and contagion:
>https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abk0172

You seem to be arguing the effectiveness of various vaccines here
which I have knowledge of, however I did look up the "effectiveness"
of Sinovax and it is stated to be:
"51% against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, 100% against severe
COVID-19, and 100% against hospitalization starting 14 days after
receiving the second dose"
https://tinyurl.com/2p94e2kp

Which, would appear to be considerably safer then no vaccination at
all.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Roger Meriman]

I guess if they are sharing a car? This said it’s such a close airspace
don’t think it’s going to help.

Or possibly to save taking it off and on?

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

Here this is known as "virtue signaling" where those who have trampled on everyone beneath them can prove they didn't

[Tom Kunich]

I just explained that if, indeed, the vaccines are causeing transision to DNA and reproducing the spike protein (which now a couple of studies confirm) it will act like AIDS.

"How long does it take to develop full blown AIDS?
HIV infection, however, takes a very long time to develop into full blown AIDS. The virus begins to replicate in the body within the CD4 cells and begins to destroy the immunity. The time taken for development of AIDS from HIV infection may range from 6 months (very rare) to 15 years."

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/7/2023 10:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> The whole point is to visibly sort those who will obey, no matter how
> ridiculous a mandate, from those who will not.

If that were "the whole point," they could have achieved it with yellow
badges, or mandatory neckties, or mandatory tattoos.

That doesn't explain why my physician (who owns his practice) and all
his staff insisted on masks. It doesn't explain why my research
virologist friend approves of them. It doesn't explain why John's
Thailand had much more diligent masking and far fewer COVID problems.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

It doesn't matter in the least what sort of mask they're wearing unless it is a perfectly fitting oxygen respirator. The question then is - With a virus 10,000 times more infectious than any others, where did they get clean O2? Not that this isn't possible - you use an oxygen concentrator and pass it though multiple chambers with strong UV shown into the chamber. I've never seen on like that.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/7/2023 10:46 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/7/2023 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 17:58:45 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have never worn a mask, didn't sign up for old people's
>>> 'benefits', never borrowed money for tuition, never went on

>>> relief and as far as I know I've never been pregnant. ...

>>
>> But that aside I had read that "social security and Medicare taxes"
>> were mandatory?

>
> Oh, I paid the taxes (both sides and on huge payrolls for several decades).
>
> I didn't sign up for the SSA payments or the Medicare racket either.

Hmm. Your choice, of course. But ISTM you're voluntarily turning down
money the government owes you. What is your practical objective?

If it's a protest of some sort, it's not going to be effective. I can't
imagine Medicare saying "Andrew's not getting benefits! We must shut it
all down!"

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/7/2023 11:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Redefining the word 'vaccine' is not a scientific inquiry, it's
> propaganda.

You seem to have a personal definition of "vaccine" that does not match
the common definition.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Please don't wish for yellow stars again. They're come soon
enough, on present trend.

[AMuzi]

That racket will expand (unto national suicide) with or
without me.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/7/2023 6:18 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
>
> [1] Dr Fauci, Feb. 4, 2020, "I do not recommend that you wear a mask"
> [2] Dr Fauci, Mar 8, 2020, “There’s no reason to be walking around with
> a mask”
> [3] Dr Fauci, January 25, 2021,"Two face masks are better than one."
> Also that date, "CDC recommends that people wear masks that have 'two or

> more layers of washable, breathable fabric.' ...

>
> This is exemplary disinformation and effective social control but it is
> surely unrelated to scientific inquiry.

I think some of that was due to understandable uncertainty when dealing
with a very new phenomenon, one with potentially catastrophic
consequences. In February and March of 2020, ERs were overflowing, masks
were in short supply, we didn't know if COVID would take out half the
population.

At that point in time, if Fauci had said "I strongly recommend masks,"
the mask shortage would have suddenly been extreme, meaning high risk
medical staff would have been without them.

(FWIW, about then I had somehow been given a pack of about a dozen. I
phoned the county and offered to donate them. They drove out to pick
them up. That's not a normal occurrence.)

The final "two layer" advice may still be correct, when infections are
rampant. Two may be better than one.

Really, not every rock has an evil conspiracy beneath it.


--
- Frank Krygowski