Stolen Car

[Tom Kunich]

They found my oldest stepdaughter's car in Blithe on the Arizona border. Condition is unknown but the driver was arrested. The Dealer insurance will tow it back here (Fremont), inspect and completely reservice the it.

[AMuzi]

On 2/1/2024 2:49 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> They found my oldest stepdaughter's car in Blithe on the Arizona border. Condition is unknown but the driver was arrested. The Dealer insurance will tow it back here (Fremont), inspect and completely reservice the it.

Bad move on his part. Arizona prosecutes criminals.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Catrike Ryder]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 15:09:20 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/1/2024 2:49 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> They found my oldest stepdaughter's car in Blithe on the Arizona border. Condition is unknown but the driver was arrested. The Dealer insurance will tow it back here (Fremont), inspect and completely reservice the it.
>
>Bad move on his part. Arizona prosecutes criminals.

How racist!

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 15:09:20 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/1/2024 2:49 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> They found my oldest stepdaughter's car in Blithe on the Arizona border. Condition is unknown but the driver was arrested. The Dealer insurance will tow it back here (Fremont), inspect and completely reservice the it.
>
>Bad move on his part. Arizona prosecutes criminals.

Blythe is in California.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blythe,_California>
California protects its criminals.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[AMuzi]

Racist? Color of the stolen auto was not mentioned.

And not only State differences. Merely crossing a county
line can bring wildly different enforcement:

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/chicago-man-high-speed-chase-stolen-vehicle-sentenced

The original radio report, after he was held over on a
$1000000 bond, quoted him as saying he had never been held
over for stolen cars before(!). The judge noted, "This is
not Cook County."

Note that not even in DuPage however was he charged for the
illegal loaded 9mm or as a felon in possession.

[Catrike Ryder]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 15:58:43 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/1/2024 3:35 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 15:09:20 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/1/2024 2:49 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> They found my oldest stepdaughter's car in Blithe on the Arizona border. Condition is unknown but the driver was arrested. The Dealer insurance will tow it back here (Fremont), inspect and completely reservice the it.
>>>
>>> Bad move on his part. Arizona prosecutes criminals.
>>
>> How racist!
>
>Racist? Color of the stolen auto was not mentioned.

Sorry.... I don't know that comment came from. Maybe I hesitated to
long on a far left news channel when I was surfing TV.

[AMuzi]

On 2/1/2024 3:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 15:09:20 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/1/2024 2:49 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> They found my oldest stepdaughter's car in Blithe on the Arizona border. Condition is unknown but the driver was arrested. The Dealer insurance will tow it back here (Fremont), inspect and completely reservice the it.
>>
>> Bad move on his part. Arizona prosecutes criminals.
>
> Blythe is in California.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blythe,_California>
> California protects its criminals.
>

Thanks I misunderstood that.

[Tom Kunich]

Also while the color of the stolen SUV was yellow, the guy said that he needed a ride to Arizona. He had an interview in Phoenix. Just think of that. He simply stole a car to get someplace when the cost of the gas alone would have bought him a plane ticket.

[AMuzi]

Tangentially, policy matters.

If we do not jail carjackers we get more carjackers.
Not prosecuting 'firearm used in an assault' gets you more
armed assaults
And so on.

These guys who attacked NYPD:

https://nypost.com/2024/02/01/metro/police-believe-4-of-the-migrants-arrested-in-nyc-cop-beatdown-fled-to-california/

Are illegals. Some with outstanding criminal complaints.
Under statute they ought to be deported but this
administration doesn't do deportations.

They never spent a night in jail (I have, several times, for
a lot less; I have never struck a police officer, and do not
intend to do so). They are now your problem, Mr Kunich, as
they bugged out to your sanctuary State. Anyone want to bet
on their appearance in court on the police assault charges
in NYC?

Meanwhile, where things go bad enough, policy changed:
https://www.theblaze.com/news/el-salvadoran-president-coolly-brushes-off-ilhan-omars-election-meddling-then-flips-her-critique


Astute readers of news may remember that the turning point
was when Mr Bukele told police to jail anyone with gang
tattoos on his face:

https://imagevars.gulfnews.com/2020/04/27/Copy-of-Virus_Outbreak_El_Salvador_10560.jpg-587df-1587981562702_171bb13b350_original-ratio.jpg

https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/230226031803-01-el-salvador-prisoner-transfer-022423.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_720,w_1280,c_fill


After which the murder rate dropped from 51 per 100K to 7.8.

(compare with Chicago, which hovers around 30. US overall
from under 5 in 2018, 2019 to about seven now).

Abrogation of due process? Probably. Support of the
citizenry? Absolutely. In any society, most people are not
criminals, they are prey. And they know it.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/1/2024 9:29 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Astute readers of news may remember that the turning point was when Mr
> Bukele told police to jail anyone with gang tattoos on his face:
>
> https://imagevars.gulfnews.com/2020/04/27/Copy-of-Virus_Outbreak_El_Salvador_10560.jpg-587df-1587981562702_171bb13b350_original-ratio.jpg
>
> https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/230226031803-01-el-salvador-prisoner-transfer-022423.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_720,w_1280,c_fill
>
>
> After which the murder rate dropped from 51 per 100K to 7.8.

Interesting. Do you suppose that strategy would work for the U.S.?

I have no tattoos, so anti-tattoo laws wouldn't affect me.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

I guess it was the gang tattoos than tattoos in general.

As ever show me simple solutions to complex problem and it will be wholly
wrong comes to mind.

Roger Merriman

[AMuzi]

We don't summarily imprison people without trial. Which is
good policy, IMHO. Magic spells for policy are in short
supply while the current practices deteriorate from prior
policies.

That said, this guy as so many others was out and about,
"...Adams had 32 contacts with the judicial system over the
years — including 11 assaults and 13 convictions. The judge
called Adams extraordinarily dangerous..." including beating
his own father to a broken hip.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/thug-who-beat-elderly-woman-so-badly-that-she-cant-walk-speak-or-recognize-her-husband-of-more-than-50-years-is-sentenced

a more sterile report:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/district-man-sentenced-eight-years-prison-aggravated-assault-senior-citizen

a brief perusal of overnight news, anywhere, any day, will
show this is more typical than unusual.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/2/2024 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> a more sterile report:
> https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/district-man-sentenced-eight-years-prison-aggravated-assault-senior-citizen
>
> a brief perusal of overnight news, anywhere, any day, will show this is
> more typical than unusual.

You and I disagree fundamentally on that point. To me, "typical" means
something like "happens to most people." It doesn't mean "one can find
some instances if one digs deeply enough."

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Maybe I should clarify .
I did not mean, "Your average USAian is
assaulted/robbed/raped/killed every evening."

I meant the most vicious of those crimes are by guys with
priors who are out either on 'no cash bail' or pleaded to a
'disorderly conduct' after a stabbing or shooting, out after
reduced sentence release or have outstanding warrants etc.
Guys who would be incarcerated until present policies swept
the nation.


Here are the first few of today's overnight all stars:

https://cwbchicago.com/2024/02/chicago-man-attack-service-station-attendant-electronic-monitoring.html

https://cwbchicago.com/2024/02/robbery-spree-suspect-released-on-electronic-monitoring-chicago.html

https://cwbchicago.com/2024/02/chicago-man-abducted-woman-in-november-made-her-work-as-a-prostitute-until-cops-rescued-her-this-week-prosecutors.html
(salient point not in headline. See last two paragraphs)

[#4 is about merchants installing rows of bollards to thwart
car-through-glass break ins/robberies]

then #5 today:
https://cwbchicago.com/2024/02/man-shot-by-chicago-police-sentenced-to-four-years.html
(salient point not in headline. See last two paragraphs)

Or pick a different day or a different city.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/2/2024 11:27 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/2/2024 10:10 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/2/2024 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> a more sterile report:
>>> https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/district-man-sentenced-eight-years-prison-aggravated-assault-senior-citizen
>>>
>>> a brief perusal of overnight news, anywhere, any day, will show this
>>> is more typical than unusual.
>>
>> You and I disagree fundamentally on that point. To me, "typical" means
>> something like "happens to most people." It doesn't mean "one can find
>> some instances if one digs deeply enough."
>>
>
> Maybe I should clarify .
> I did not mean, "Your average USAian is assaulted/robbed/raped/killed
> every evening."
>
> I meant the most vicious of those crimes are by guys with priors who are
> out either on 'no cash bail' or pleaded to a 'disorderly conduct' after
> a stabbing or shooting, out after reduced sentence release or have
> outstanding warrants etc. Guys who would be incarcerated until present
> policies swept the nation.

Well, whatever policies are in place were chosen for some reasons. In my
area, there have been times when perps were not jailed because there was
insufficient jail space. Building jails requires money, and money
requires taxes.

I'm not condoning every release of every accused person. But the U.S.
already sets records among prosperous countries for incarceration.
Apparently many other countries get better results using different
strategies.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

Now get this - the DEALER that allowed the car to be stolen claims that the eldest has top retreive the car herself so that they can service the car!

[Tom Kunich]

The typical Krygowski answer. "It doesn't happen here in Poland so it doesn't happen". The very fact that there are TikTok dares to see how many cars people can steal in one night makes Krygowski's claims look silly.

[Tom Kunich]

I can hardly wait to hear your story when that insufficient jail space ends up with your own assault.

[John B.]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 16:52:49 GMT, Tom Kunich <cycl...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I( wonder... did Frank ever stop to think. Perhaps the reason the U.S.
has so many incarcerated is because they have so many criminals?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

When you can simply take what you want from people weaker than you there is no limit to the numbers of criminals that will breed.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/20/2024 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>> On Fri Feb 2 12:03:13 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not condoning every release of every accused person. But the U.S.
>>> already sets records among prosperous countries for incarceration.
>>> Apparently many other countries get better results using different
>>> strategies.
>

> I( wonder... did Frank ever stop to think. Perhaps the reason the U.S.
> has so many incarcerated is because they have so many criminals?

I'm sure I've thought about this more than you, John.

Did you ever ask "_Why_ would the U.S. have so many more criminals than
comparable nations? And what could be done to improve that situation?"

For a fairly simple comparison, I'd look at data for the two sides of
the U.S./Canada border. The human beings on the two sides are not
different species. But both crime rates and incarceration rates are far,
far better in Canada. Ditto for most European countries.

One thing seems sure: America incarcerating a record proportion of its
citizens is _not_ making it into a low crime country. So at what point
should we look at alternative solutions?

"Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a
definition of insanity."

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Ryder]

One reason is that the USA has had a government policy of paying women
to have babies and paying them more if the kick any adult males out of
their home.

In spite of all the hype about how terrible we heterosexual males are
(especially "white" heterosexual "biological" males), having fathers
in the home is an important part of raising children.

[zen cycle]

wow...talk about straw men.....OF course we should expect that a proudly
and willfully ignorant dumbass from the dumbshine state would parrot
right-wing pabulum from his masters

>
> In spite of all the hype about how terrible we heterosexual males are
> (especially "white" heterosexual "biological" males),

aww....is the poor wittle tricycle rider being victimized again?

> having fathers
> in the home is an important part of raising children.

True, but the false narrative that the US government is paying women to
have babies and paying them more if adult mares are kicked out of the
home is really, really, fucking stupid, but par for the dumbass course.

[John B.]

I don't know about kicking men out of the house but I do know that
when I was stationed at Bangor Maine - about 1960, or so, an unmarried
woman with 3 children had enough free cash to buy her boy friend all
the beer he cold drink.

But Frank gets it wrong. The purpose of imprisonment is to penalize
the criminal. Not to increase or decrease prison inhabitants.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/ranking/murder-homicide-rate

Murder Rate- Canada (2017) 1.819
U.S. - 5.244



--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Mugging and robbery victims see the problem differently. As
do survivors of those killed.

[AMuzi]

Daniel Moynihan raised that alarm in the 1960s:
https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/moynihan-report-1965/

but no one listened and it hasn't gotten any better
https://singlemotherguide.com/state/

[AMuzi]

Change of policy can bring great change to outcomes:
https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/21/2024 5:50 AM, John B. wrote:
>
> But Frank gets it wrong. The purpose of imprisonment is to penalize
> the criminal.

Again, you seem to not have thought about this very deeply.

Explain why criminals are penalized by imprisonment.

The usual answers are 1) To teach the criminal to obey laws in the
future, and 2) to protect people from those who have not (yet?) learned
to obey laws.

But our system of imprisonment doesn't seem to achieve those goals. See
below.

>
> https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/ranking/murder-homicide-rate
>
> Murder Rate- Canada (2017) 1.819
> U.S. - 5.244

So the U.S. has a much higher imprisonment rate than Canada. If
imprisoning so many people taught criminals to obey laws and protected
people from crime, the U.S. would have much lower crime rates.

It isn't working. Doing the same thing over and over despite failure is

[Frank Krygowski]

Yes, aid exists. You haven't presented information proving women are
having babies and kicking out fathers for economic gain.

I know or have known several single mothers, a couple who did divorce
abusive husbands. Are you suggesting that a woman should stay in a
marriage and endure frequent beatings so your taxes are lower? Really?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Ryder]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 10:36:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/21/2024 5:50 AM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> But Frank gets it wrong. The purpose of imprisonment is to penalize
>> the criminal.
>
>Again, you seem to not have thought about this very deeply.
>
>Explain why criminals are penalized by imprisonment.
>
>The usual answers are 1) To teach the criminal to obey laws in the
>future, and 2) to protect people from those who have not (yet?) learned
>to obey laws.

To make potential criminals more fearful of committing a crime.

>But our system of imprisonment doesn't seem to achieve those goals. See
>below.
>
>>
>> https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/ranking/murder-homicide-rate
>>
>> Murder Rate- Canada (2017) 1.819
>> U.S. - 5.244
>So the U.S. has a much higher imprisonment rate than Canada. If
>imprisoning so many people taught criminals to obey laws and protected
>people from crime, the U.S. would have much lower crime rates.

Assumes "facts" not in evidence.

>It isn't working. Doing the same thing over and over despite failure is
>insanity.

Says the guy who repeated the same antigun nonsense for weeks and
weeks.

[Catrike Ryder]

Another Krygowski strawman...

What is "Straw Man" and Why Do Narcissists Use It?

The "straw man" technique is a common tactic used by narcissists in
order to discredit their victim's thoughts, feelings, and opinions.
This technique involves misrepresenting or distorting the victim's
point of view in order to create an argument that is easy for the
narcissist to win. Essentially, the narcissist creates a "straw man"
version of their victim's argument, which is a distorted and
exaggerated version of what the victim actually believes, and then
proceeds to attack and discredit that version of the argument.

Narcissists use the "straw man" technique in order to maintain control
over their victims and to avoid taking responsibility for their own
behavior. By misrepresenting the victim's point of view, the
narcissist can avoid addressing the real issue and shift the focus
onto the distorted argument they have created. They may also use the
"straw man" technique to make themselves appear more reasonable or
intelligent by attacking a weaker, exaggerated version of the victim's
argument.

https://www.standcoaching.com/post/unraveling-the-straw-man-recognizing-and-overcoming-narcissistic-deception

[AMuzi]

A bit of humor from this week's news:

https://nypost.com/2024/02/18/us-news/ok-man-steals-truck-towing-corvettes-to-get-ride-home-from-jail/

Or as your friend quipped, "They aren't geniuses, Frank."

This morning, the reconstruction of the KC parade mayhem
shows a bunch of armed idiots who began with "F you!" and F
you too!" and quickly descended into multidirectional
negligent discharges. Who thinks like that?

https://www.myarklamiss.com/news/morning-show/fox-14-your-morning-news-kansas-city-chiefs-super-bowl-parade-shooting-update/

[2 minutes]

Regarding public policy, the current laxity has real costs too:
https://cwbchicago.com/2024/02/cta-chicago-sentenced-two-shootings-on-felony-bail.html

https://cwbchicago.com/2024/02/chicago-cta-granville-robbery-charges-six-other-recent-arrests.html

And we have repeated dramatic examples of varying (effective
vs ineffective) policy:

https://cwbchicago.com/2024/02/chicago-dupage-county-catalytic-converter-theft-charges-hit-different.html

Even to details beyond general policy, Cook County and
Chicago have a 'no police pursuit' policy. Here's what the
DuPage State's Attorney says about that:

“Make no mistake, we will use every tool at our disposal,
including helicopters, drones and the assistance of
neighboring jurisdictions to arrest and charge anyone who
attempts to flee from police. Do not attempt to flee, you
will be unsuccessful.”

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/21/2024 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/21/2024 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> Again, you seem to not have thought about this very deeply.
>>
>> Explain why criminals are penalized by imprisonment.
>>
>> The usual answers are 1) To teach the criminal to obey laws in the
>> future, and 2) to protect people from those who have not (yet?)
>> learned to obey laws.
>>
>> But our system of imprisonment doesn't seem to achieve those goals.
>> See below.
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/ranking/murder-homicide-rate
>>>
>>> Murder Rate- Canada (2017) 1.819
>>> U.S. - 5.244
>> So the U.S. has a much higher imprisonment rate than Canada. If
>> imprisoning so many people taught criminals to obey laws and protected
>> people from crime, the U.S. would have much lower crime rates.
>>
>> It isn't working. Doing the same thing over and over despite failure
>> is insanity.
>>
>

> This morning, the reconstruction of the KC parade mayhem shows a bunch
> of armed idiots who began with "F you!" and F you too!" and quickly
> descended into multidirectional negligent discharges.  Who thinks like
> that?
>
> https://www.myarklamiss.com/news/morning-show/fox-14-your-morning-news-kansas-city-chiefs-super-bowl-parade-shooting-update/

Yes. Wow, who would have imagined that letting every yahoo in America
carry a gun everywhere might lead to so many mass shootings, right?

And did you note the firing rate heard from about 0:13 to 0:15 in that
video? "Let's make sure the idiots can empty a magazine in two seconds!"

> Regarding public policy, the current laxity has real costs too:
> https://cwbchicago.com/2024/02/cta-chicago-sentenced-two-shootings-on-felony-bail.html

As discussed over and over, there are well established legal and
financial reasons for our bail system - like "No new taxes!!!" for example.

You've presented nothing but individual anecdotes about shootings by
those out on bail. I suspect those particular perps are a very small
percentage of the problem.

But as always, you're welcome to present systemic solutions. Perhaps "As
soon as anyone is arrested, imprison him or her until trial. We'll raise
taxes to build the jail capacity. We'll do away with 'Innocent until
proven guilty' and remove judges' discretion."

And perhaps "All convicted felons will receive life sentences. We'll
imprison an even higher proportion of our population."

Never mind the fact that no similar strategy seems to be working. We
imprison more than anybody, and still suffer much higher crime rates
than similar countries.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Ryder]

Ten year minimum sentence for anyone who commits a crime, any crime,
while in posession of a gun. Add five years if the perp cannot legally
own a gun.

Pay for it by eliminating all the foriegn aid to countries who are not
allies.

[AMuzi]

Many (most?) States already have mandatory minimums for
felony while armed.

In many places, Cook County for example, a felon in
possession of a stolen firearm used in an armed robbery can
count on being charged with disorderly conduct and a
disappearance ticket.

[Catrike Ryder]

He'll probably get to keep the gun.

[Catrike Ryder]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 11:18:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> We
>imprison more than anybody, and still suffer much higher crime rates
>than similar countries.
>
>--
>- Frank Krygowski

Because we have more criminals.

[AMuzi]

Opinions vary and you're welcome to yours.

This just in from the Maricopa County prosecutor:

https://710wor.iheart.com/content/2024-02-21-arizona-prosecutor-refuses-to-extradite-suspect-in-nyc-hotel-slaying/

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/21/2024 3:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Opinions vary and you're welcome to yours.
>
> This just in from the Maricopa County prosecutor:
>
> https://710wor.iheart.com/content/2024-02-21-arizona-prosecutor-refuses-to-extradite-suspect-in-nyc-hotel-slaying/

The most consistent reason for our disagreements:

I'm a data guy. You're an anecdote guy.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Ryder]

"I worked with the guy. He used his solid model
animations of the gun mechanism to explain it to me while he was
designing it. The patent didn't involve that mechanism; it involved
other components and their innovative manufacturing. But the gun is
almost entirely his design."

FRank Krygowski

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/Zu_BtGgv8Fs/m/tk2Zbzx1BgAJ

[John B.]

Like ,many "not very intelligent" people Frank keeps repeating the
same thing over and over - "it don't work". So tell us Frank what is
your solution?

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

An interesting comparison of crime in Canada and the U,S
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime

It is rather simple to explain the incarceration rates between the
U.S. and Canada.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

The flood of daily examples are colorful and instructive. I
assumed everyone would be familiar with the trends:

https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/Chicago-carjackings-by-year/fbqm-xvt4

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/carjackings-in-oakland/3281776/
[skip to 1:00 for data trend chart]

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/pandemic-brings-sharp-rise-king-county-carjackings/PD4PZMG37FHNPDK3VHWLTINZFQ/

http://heyjackass.com/

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/21/2024 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 10:48:14 -0500, Catrike Ryder
> <Sol...@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 10:36:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Explain why criminals are penalized by imprisonment.
>>>
>>> The usual answers are 1) To teach the criminal to obey laws in the
>>> future, and 2) to protect people from those who have not (yet?) learned
>>> to obey laws.
>>

>>> But our system of imprisonment doesn't seem to achieve those goals. See
>>> below.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/ranking/murder-homicide-rate
>>>>
>>>> Murder Rate- Canada (2017) 1.819
>>>> U.S. - 5.244
>>> So the U.S. has a much higher imprisonment rate than Canada. If
>>> imprisoning so many people taught criminals to obey laws and protected
>>> people from crime, the U.S. would have much lower crime rates.
>>

>>> It isn't working. Doing the same thing over and over despite failure is
>>> insanity.
>>

> Like ,many "not very intelligent" people Frank keeps repeating the

> same thing over and over ...

:-) That's funny coming from you, John!

> "it don't work". So tell us Frank what is
> your solution?

You won't like it, because it's not simplistic, and it's longer than a
sound bite. But I'd begin by examining countries with similar economic
prosperity and evaluating what they do differently than the U.S.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

That page is evidence that the U.S. system of crime prevention is a
failure compared to Canada. That should be obvious.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/21/2024 3:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
>

> This just in from the Maricopa County prosecutor:
>
> https://710wor.iheart.com/content/2024-02-21-arizona-prosecutor-refuses-to-extradite-suspect-in-nyc-hotel-slaying/

From
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/nyregion/soho-hotel-murder-bragg-arizona.html

“It is deeply disturbing that D.A. Mitchell is playing political games
in a murder investigation,” Ms. Tuttle said in a statement. She also
noted that killings and shootings had dropped since Mr. Bragg took office.

“New York’s murder rate is less than half that of Phoenix, Ariz.,
because of the hard work of the N.Y.P.D. and all of our law enforcement
partners,” Ms. Tuttle said. “It is a slap in the face to them and to the
victim in our case to refuse to allow us to seek justice and full
accountability for a New Yorker’s death.”


--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

That post by Frank, sometime ago, probably does more to expose Franks
lack of mechanical knowledge then anything he has ever posted.

You see, a recoil operated hand gun has a minimum of moving parts and
certainly doesn't require a animated model to understand, if for no
other reason that it is, itself, an animated model.


--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Ryder]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 22:05:44 -0500, Frank Krygowski

In other words, he has no solution.

[Catrike Ryder]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 22:07:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski

<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/21/2024 8:18 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 14:55:04 -0500, Catrike Ryder
>> <Sol...@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 11:18:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We
>>>> imprison more than anybody, and still suffer much higher crime rates
>>>> than similar countries.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>> Because we have more criminals.
>>
>> An interesting comparison of crime in Canada and the U,S
>> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime
>>
>> It is rather simple to explain the incarceration rates between the
>> U.S. and Canada.
>
>That page is evidence that the U.S. system of crime prevention is a
>failure compared to Canada. That should be obvious.

[Catrike Ryder]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 14:44:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Of course, Krygowski has no friend who designs guns. It was just
another of his pathetic undocumented brags.

"there are others who have examined my
bicycling qualifications, tested me and proclaimed that I do, indeed,
know what I'm talking about regarding bicycling."
Frank Krygowski
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/phkWDoYngY0/m/sSpJLrQKvKQJ

[John B.]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 04:05:09 -0500, Catrike Ryder

"Well, so it's not simplistic and requires the study of other
countries are doing" .

Certainly proof that Frankie doesn't know what he is talking about as
about every law enforcement agency in the U.S. knows. The FBI even
publishes statistics.

But then, that's Frankly all over. When he doesn't know what is going
on just mumble a bunch of garbage and hope the other guy won't know
either.




--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 04:05:51 -0500, Catrike Ryder

<Sol...@old.bikers.org> wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 22:07:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 2/21/2024 8:18 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 14:55:04 -0500, Catrike Ryder
>>> <Sol...@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 11:18:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We
>>>>> imprison more than anybody, and still suffer much higher crime rates
>>>>> than similar countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>
>>>> Because we have more criminals.
>>>
>>> An interesting comparison of crime in Canada and the U,S
>>> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime
>>>
>>> It is rather simple to explain the incarceration rates between the
>>> U.S. and Canada.
>>
>>That page is evidence that the U.S. system of crime prevention is a
>>failure compared to Canada. That should be obvious.
>
>
>Assumes "facts" not in evidence.

More Frankie make believe. The page in references portrays the numbers
of criminal acts in Canada compare with the U.S. and has nothing to do
with cause.

But that's Frankie all over. When you don't know just throw a few lies
in the game and hope that someone will change the subject.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Zen Cycle]

On 2/21/2024 9:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/21/2024 4:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

>> On 2/21/2024 3:04 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 22:04:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/20/2024 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri Feb 2 12:03:13 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not condoning every release of every accused person. But the
>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>> already sets records among prosperous countries for incarceration.
>>>>>>> Apparently many other countries get better results using different
>>>>>>> strategies.
>>>>>
>>>>> I( wonder... did Frank ever stop to think. Perhaps the reason the U.S.
>>>>> has so many incarcerated is because they have so many criminals?
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure I've thought about this more than you, John.
>>>>
>>>> Did you ever ask "_Why_ would the U.S. have so many more criminals than
>>>> comparable nations? And what could be done to improve that situation?"
>>>>
>>>> For a fairly simple comparison, I'd look at data for the two sides of
>>>> the U.S./Canada border. The human beings on the two sides are not
>>>> different species. But both crime rates and incarceration rates are
>>>> far,
>>>> far better in Canada. Ditto for most European countries.
>>>>
>>>> One thing seems sure: America incarcerating a record proportion of its
>>>> citizens is _not_ making it into a low crime country. So at what point
>>>> should we look at alternative solutions?
>>>>
>>>> "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
>>>> is a
>>>> definition of insanity."
>>>
>>> One reason is that the USA has had a government policy of paying women
>>> to have babies and paying them more if the kick any adult males out of
>>> their home.
>>  wow...talk about straw men.....OF course we should expect that a
>> proudly and willfully ignorant dumbass from the dumbshine state would
>> parrot right-wing pabulum from his masters
>>
>>>
>>> In spite of all the hype about how terrible we heterosexual males are
>>> (especially "white" heterosexual "biological" males),
>>
>> aww....is the poor wittle tricycle rider being victimized again?
>>
>>> having fathers
>>> in the home is an important part of raising children.

>>
>> True, but the false narrative that the US government is paying women
>> to have babies and paying them more if adult mares are kicked out of
>> the home is really, really, fucking stupid, but par for the dumbass
>> course.
>>
>
> Daniel Moynihan raised that alarm in the 1960s:
> https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/moynihan-report-1965/
>
> but no one listened and it hasn't gotten any better
> https://singlemotherguide.com/state/

Funny how neither of those links support the strawman "the USA has had a
government policy of paying women to have babies and paying them more if
the kick any adult males out of their home."

--
Add xx to reply

[Zen Cycle]

On 2/21/2024 10:52 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 10:40:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/21/2024 9:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/21/2024 4:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:
>>>>
>>>> True, but the false narrative that the US government is paying women
>>>> to have babies and paying them more if adult mares are kicked out of
>>>> the home is really, really, fucking stupid, but par for the dumbass
>>>> course.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel Moynihan raised that alarm in the 1960s:
>>> https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/moynihan-report-1965/
>>>
>>> but no one listened and it hasn't gotten any better
>>> https://singlemotherguide.com/state/
>>
>> Yes, aid exists. You haven't presented information proving women are
>> having babies and kicking out fathers for economic gain.
>>
>> I know or have known several single mothers, a couple who did divorce
>> abusive husbands. Are you suggesting that a woman should stay in a
>> marriage and endure frequent beatings so your taxes are lower? Really?
>
> Another Krygowski strawman...

<eyeroll>
Another floriduh dumbass demonstration of willful ignorance. The
strawman is "the USA has had a government policy of paying women

to have babies and paying them more if the kick any adult males out of
their home. "

>

> What is "Straw Man" and Why Do Narcissists Use It?
>

<snipped-cut-n-paste>
<eyeroll>
ye another dumbass cut-n-paste he clearly doesn't understand

[Zen Cycle]

Floriduh dumbass spouts nonsense irrelevant to the discussion....taking
kunich lessons, are we?

[Zen Cycle]

I call bullshit - I can find no link to support "a felon in possession

of a stolen firearm used in an armed robbery can count on being charged
with disorderly conduct and a disappearance ticket."

I'll stand corrected if you can provide one.

[Zen Cycle]

Floriduh dumbass demanding others answer his questions again....

[AMuzi]

El Salvador's business climate, especially for small
businesses, has improved greatly with the removal of some
40,000 gang members to prison. Concomitantly their murder
rate plummeted which IMHO is a societal improvement as well.

[AMuzi]

His statement made sense to me.

Any basic firearm action (there are several current formats)
can be greatly improved by manufacturing process changes;
cold heading or SCM casting or sintering vs subtractive
machining for example. Economic improvements (faster cycle
time or reduced capital machinery) are real improvements
even where the basic action principles are unchanged.
Despite our USA high volume in the industry, manufacturers
regularly reorganize or are liquidated and one might say
that production cost is more important than which action
format is applied.

[AMuzi]

Overview:
https://www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11789988/clintons-welfare-reform

[AMuzi]

All day, every day. Do you read news regularly?
Incidents:

https://cwbchicago.com/2023/10/chicago-gun-charges-david-cervantes-traffic-stop.html

"Judge William Fahy sent him home Monday with a nighttime
curfew."

Armed juveniles are ipso facto guilty of illegal possession.
But seldom charged:
https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-west-pullman-halsted-news/13429286/

Overview:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/03/23/gun-violence-possession-police-chicago

In reference to a noted RBT contributor, this from that link:

“People are for ‘gun control’ but against ‘mass
incarceration,’” said James Forman Jr., a professor at Yale
Law School

[Zen Cycle]

From your link:

"But the program really did have deep problems. The three most common
criticisms made of AFDC were:

1. It caused poor adults who could work to not work.
2. It caused dependency; rather than using it as a temporary safety
net, some people embraced it as a way of life.
3. It encouraged having children out of wedlock and discouraged marriage.

The first of these claims was definitely true, the second was kind of
true, and the last might have been true but the effect was very, very
small."

Still no evidence that the program was a "policy of paying women to have

babies and paying them more if the kick any adult males out of their home. "

[Zen Cycle]

not chicago news

> Incidents:
>
> https://cwbchicago.com/2023/10/chicago-gun-charges-david-cervantes-traffic-stop.html
>
> "Judge William Fahy sent him home Monday with a nighttime curfew."

you wrote:
"a felon in possession of a stolen firearm used in an armed robbery can
count on being charged with disorderly conduct and a disappearance ticket."

1) cervantes isn't a felon
2) the firearm wasn't reported as stolen
3) He was charged with "felony aggravated unlawful use of a weapon by a
person under 21", not disorderly conduct
4) he wasn't issued a "disappearance ticket", he was given a curfew
(granted, seems light, but doesn't comport with your claim).

>
> Armed juveniles are ipso facto guilty of illegal possession. But seldom
> charged:
> https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-west-pullman-halsted-news/13429286/

Which still doesn't comport with "a felon in possession of a stolen

firearm used in an armed robbery can count on being charged with
disorderly conduct and a disappearance ticket."

besides, from your link

"the defense has a claim, a very strong one it seems, that the shooter
was acting in defense of his mother, who was being pummeled by an
assailant. That's a pretty hard case to bring on murder charges," said
ABC7 Legal Analyst Gil Soffer."

>
> Overview:
> https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/03/23/gun-violence-possession-police-chicago
>
> In reference to a noted RBT contributor, this from that link:
>
> “People are for ‘gun control’ but against ‘mass incarceration,’” said
> James Forman Jr., a professor at Yale Law School

Nothing in the Marshall Project links even remotely resembles "a felon

in possession of a stolen firearm used in an armed robbery can count on
being charged with disorderly conduct and a disappearance ticket."

Care to try again?

[sms]

On 2/22/2024 2:40 AM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> More Frankie make believe. The page in references portrays the numbers
> of criminal acts in Canada compare with the U.S. and has nothing to do
> with cause.
>
> But that's Frankie all over. When you don't know just throw a few lies
> in the game and hope that someone will change the subject.

We've seen over the years how "he who must not be named" will lie when
he has no data to support his beliefs.

Here's the reality: The U.S. has long moved past addressing the root
causes of crime.

The loss of living wage, blue collar, unskilled, union, manufacturing
jobs have ensured that crime will be here to stay. Frank should be well
aware of this, living near Youngstown.

Steel, shipbuilding, auto manufacturing, appliance manufacturing,
electronics manufacturing, etc., have been moving off-shore. Is it
easier to steal catalytic converters, and break into cars, than to take
a dull minimum wage job? Yes.

More prisons are now the long-term solution to crime. California got in
trouble for prison overcrowding and the solution was not building
additional prison space, it was to move low-level, non-violent criminals
to county jails. The county jails could not handle the numbers of
low-level criminals so "catch and release" became the norm for
misdemeanor property crimes.

It's not the dollar limit for misdemeanor versus felony since other
states have an even higher threshold than California, including Texas.
It's not the police. It's not the judges. It's not the district
attorneys. There is just not sufficient jail space to incarcerate all
the criminals. In fact, Gavin Newsom has been closing prisons to save
money. It costs about $100,000 per year per prisoner for incarceration.

There are also too many criminals in prison with life sentences that
pose no threat to society anymore but to release them would be
politically unacceptable. 25 years is long enough, even for murder, if
the criminal poses no threat.

Would voters support a bond measure for construction, and a tax measure
for the operation, of more jails and prisons? Because it's all about money.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

[AMuzi]

I'm old enough to remember when there were home visits by
welfare case workers, long long ago. They actually looked
for men's personal effects in the apartment, evidence of
male residence.

[Zen Cycle]

Which isn't "paying them more if they kick any adult males out of their
home". AFAIK it was to ensure the amount of money being distributed was
legitimate based on household income. IOW, If there was another male
person living there, why is it not shown in the records of the number of
people at the residence? contributions are being made by this additional
person, if any? An adult male living at the residence isn't an issue if
it's claimed properly. Note: AFDC means Aid to Families with Dependent
Children. "Families" does not automatically exclude men in that system.

[Tom Kunich]

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 11:22:37 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/21/2024 12:10 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Unfortunately here they are not charging people who commit felonies with guns. In fact, they are releasing them on cashless bail to repeat the same crimes. Yesterday I signed a petition to recall these DA's and the group trying to do this was black.

[Tom Kunich]

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 1:46:12 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/21/2024 3:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> > Opinions vary and you're welcome to yours.
> >
> > This just in from the Maricopa County prosecutor:
> >
> > https://710wor.iheart.com/content/2024-02-21-arizona-prosecutor-refuses-to-extradite-suspect-in-nyc-hotel-slaying/
> The most consistent reason for our disagreements:
>
> I'm a data guy. You're an anecdote guy.
>

> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Are you saying that a refusal to extradite a murderer is not a data point? There are literally dozens of cases like this in California in which the perpetrator is released on cashless bail. Just 10 years ago they could not release someone accused of murder. It was a matter of public safety which you talk so much about from your safe haven of Poland.

[Tom Kunich]

What is the largest complaint of EU countries? That open borders are bringing sharp increases in crime. But somehow you don't seem able to connect that with the problems in the US. You laugh when I tell you that Mexico emptied its prisons into the US. Even when Mexico City has become almost a heaven compared to what it was before the open borders. It is now so bad in the US that American's of Hispanic descent do not want to be recognized for their ancestry. And THIS is what you support whole heartedly and rather than the cause you blame guns.

[Tom Kunich]

"As far as I know" - that's about as smart as "I'm a real EE" coming from you. You're a great deal like Liebermann who took 6 years to get a 4 year degree. How long did it take you? 10 years?