Death of rec aviation

[Eric Bick (DY)]

While I understand all the traffic about Thunderbird, etc., it is self-defeating. The whole idea of the internet is simplicity, not trying to avoid spamming, scamming, phishing, etc. i will not load yet another app on my computer to filter all the spams rec.aviation.soaring is getting. From my perspective, the website is dead due to the spams, which are now 90% of what is being posted, probably by bots. Have fun guys. I'm gone.

[andy l]

It's odd. If I look at some uk telecom groups that I gave up reading ages ago, due to spam, there is now nearly no spam, and regular though though not frequent relevant posts

In those days you could report spam on Google Groups, and it would eventually disappear, albeit maybe 3 to 6 weeks later. But then the cleanups tailed off.

At the same time I disabled forwarding this email address to other gmail addresses, as there was spam there too, presumably from bots reading the email address

On ordinary forums, some moderators just hide posts, but others will search all posts by a username, delete them all off the platform in blocks, ban the user from more posts, maybe search on its IP address range to detect other suspects, including those not yet posting, and maybe ask the admin to bar an address IP range. That would be useful here, given some non Latin scripts implying common origins

Cleaning up here would take just a few minutes, but digressing as I suggest would probably delete tens of thousands of posts across other groups

I don't know if there is any way for such tools to be available to nominated persons on newsgroups. Presumably not

[Moshe Braner]

A newsgroup (such as RAS) is not a moderated forum. OTOH,
spam-filtering does exist. You just need to get your newsgroups feed
via a server that does that filtering, automatically.
Eternal-september, for example. Unlike Google. Your choice of
front-end software to view it on is independent of that. Thunderbird is
one option.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

IMHO

RAS has a rich and vibrant history and is a great reservoir of content. but in this day and age of TikTok, FB, Twitter (X), etc, etc, how can we help invite new soaring people to our RAS discussion forum? We need to provide them the easiest and fastest method possible. Basically, <CLICK HERE> and instantly get content.

We can easily provide a simple web link to get to RAS (i.e. https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring). Unfortunately, this current access to RAS has become almost impossible to view with so much chaff amongst the wheat. Every USENET group I used to view has become the same way. Very sad. Blame AI and bots? Who knows.

Our best solution thus far to remove the chaff is to use, and configure, a newsgroup viewing and filtering tool like Thunderbird. Based on my working with our club's membership this is simply too high of a hurdle for them.

Suggestions:

- Has anyone created an instruction manual (PDF) on how to download, install, update, and configure Thunderbird or the like?
- Does a simple link exist for the user to get directly to an already moderated "clean" version of rec.aviation.soaring?

I would think that these things could be created by our soaring techies. Heck, look at OGN and OLC to see what soaring technology can be brought to bear.

My $0.02.

John (OHM)
Founder of RAS_Prime (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime)

[Eric Bick (DY)]

I like the last part. IMHO, saying one has to use a this or that app does not resolve the issue. In the legend of the Dutch boy who put his finger in the dike to stop a leak was only a bandaid, and did not help the population as a whole. Saying one has to use some specific app, other than what they’ve been using for this one purpose is a loser. Yes, of course, these apps can be used for more than RAS, but how do you convince someone to change from what they’ve been using for the past 20 years? In years past, I loved implementing the solution to my similar problems, but this is, as John points out, a different world. For the population as a whole, email is a tool and most can’t get beyond setting it up, regardless of the app. Suggesting using Thunderbird seems to solve the issue for the one user, but not the population as a whole. There is no reason I can’t put thunderbird on my computer to solve the RAS issue for me, but why should I have to do that? RAS has been a valuable asset, but unless the basic issue is solved (and not bandaided over), users are going to start disappearing for reasons John specified. If you were to tell a newbie that RAS is a great tool, but they have to install AppFilterSpam, maybe some will, but most won’t, again IMHO.
Eric B. (No longer a user of RAS, other than to vent.)

[Ramy]

One must wonder why Google does not use spam filtering or servers like Eternal November to fix the issue not just for RAS but for all newsgroups accessed from Google? They already implement spam filters in their email servers so why not for newsgroups?

Ramy

[Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot)]

Well.....at least Google added the blue stop sign at the top of a post to report a thread. Saves a whole step in reporting.
Heading back over to prime.

[Sarah Anderson]

I just looked in on groups.google.com and r.a.s really is unusably bad. Pages and pages of repetitive spam.
Looking at a few other USENET groups at random in the rec.* branches, I didn't see this much junk.

Using the google page, there is a gear icon... one of the options there is "send feedback to google", which I did.
Worth a try, but I'm not holding my breath.

As far as a primer, I don't think it can be much easier than the following. There's just too much variability in platforms & ISPs
and preferences. There is probably more than one way to set up t-bird, I'll just describe what works for me.

I can't speak to phone/tablet versions since I don't use them for USENET. Others are.

-- --

1. Download and install an appropriate (free) version of mozilla thunderbird. You don't have to change whatever you're doing now
with email. Here: https://www.thunderbird.net/

2. Go to "https://www.eternal-september.org/" and "register", with your name, and an arbitrary userID and an email E-S can contact
you with. (Free). This email address, and userID are only used for contacting the E-S server and are not published. Once
registered, you should receive an email with a generated password and other instructions from E-S.

3. Start and configure thunderbird. "File -> New -> Newsgroup Account". At this point you will be prompted for a display name and
email address, which *will* be used for your public messages in the newsgroup. Select the new group you created and you should see a
page with setup options. Click on the top line "Account settings" and set thunderbird to point to the news server and port mentioned
in the email from step 2, above. The first time you connect, you will receive a pop-up prompt for the userID/password you
registered with E-S. If it helps, for configuration on os X I am using
Server Name: news.eternal-september.org
Port: 563
Connection security: SSL/TLS

To send messages, you will also need a "SMTP" SimpleMailTransferProtocol server. Look into your ISP documentation or current email
setup for what that needs to be. I am using my ISP:
Server Name: smtp.comcast.net
Port: 465
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: Normal password
User Name: MyCom...@comcast.net

4. "subscribe" to rec.aviation.soaring. (Free). The key press varies, but on OS X, a control-click on the newsgroup you created
brings up a pop-up menu including "subscribe". You can use this to check the box for R.A.S. and whatever else you want.


--Fin--

[Ramy]

I consider myself technical but with little patience for technology complexity. I spent over 30 frustrating minutes trying to set up ethereal September connection using iOS NewsTap app. I followed the instructions provided by eternal September (which matches the instructions above) yet all my attempts end with connection refused.I am sure I can figure this out with or without further help, but I reached the point of frustration and lost interest trying to make this work.
The best thing about RAS was that we got lots of participants from all over the world, my guess that only small percentage will continue using it this way, as such it lost the appeal. That’s too bad, I’ve been following it since I started soaring 25 years ago. I guess will need to read soaring magazines more now…

Ramy

[Dan Marotta]

In 1915 we had Birth of a Nation, 108 years later we have Death of a
Newsgroup.

Sarah, your description of using eternal-september.org was simple and to
the point.  But the young folks of today can not do much without being
spoon fed.

You and I and a lot of "Old Farts" will continue to use the old
fashioned, unmoderated, uncensored, text-based news reader and those few
who need to be coddled will move on.  I hate to see the split but I like
having the research capability we have and the decades worth of information.

Just yesterday, I saw a spam message on RAS.  I right clicked on the
return address (yes, we see the sender's email, real or fake), selected
"Create Filter From" (it was already populated with the right
conditions), and pressed "Enter".  I'll not see a message from that
sender ever again.  How hard was that?  I did not need to ask Google to
help me.

Haven't seen a soaring day in some time.  Good thing I've got my home
built gyro plane!

Dan 5J

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Dan,

It would be disingenuous of me if I were to say ]that I somehow knew ahead of time about what has now happened to RAS in the last 2 months. It is very sad indeed. I wish it were not so. But it is so.

But I think you are missing a point or two about what you said:

- You won't lose access to the legacy of useful information existing on RAS which is our collective tribal knowledge. It will remain there forever in RAS and accessible.
- You are used to, and continue to experience, the beauty of a clean RAS. But any new user who is shown RAS as it is right now will look at it with consternation and confusion. He will ask "Where is the information?". You will answer, "Click here, click there, install this, configure that, then remove these.". That doesn't welcome the unwashed to our favorite soaring forum.
- We were all "spoon-fed" at some point at the beginning of our use of RAS and flying gliders.
- Those "coddled few" you mention are actuality in the majority.
- You like "unmoderated and uncensored". I do too. RAS_Prime is "unmoderated and uncensored". Unless, of course, someone is a spammer.
- With RAS you can't add a picture to your post. With RAS you can't add a document to your post. These are valuable things and worth a thousand words.
- You talk about how you remove an offending email address with a few clicks. True, it is not too difficult. But, unfortunately this is a never-ending battle as spammers seldom use the same address twice to avoid deletion.

I feel that we must move on.

Regards, John DeRosa
West Dundee, IL

[Gijs]

Can't we get this under control again if everybody starts reporting all these messages as spam to google? I started doing that yesterday and think that if more people report it as spam google might actually realize it really is spam.

Regards, Gijs Doeglas

[metca...@gmail.com]

> Can't we get this under control again if everybody starts reporting all these messages as spam to google? I started doing that yesterday and think that if more people report it as spam google might actually realize it really is spam.
> Regards, Gijs Doeglas

I agree, it's at least worth a try. I started about a week ago, and went right back to the beginning of it ~6 weeks ago.
But could it be that Google isn't interested, because they are just mirroring some other site? Or is that an urban myth?
James.

[Dan Marotta]

Google is your friend.  Yeah, remember when they started up their motto
was (or included the phrase) "Do no harm"?  I think they dropped that...

Dan 5J

[Sarah]

It was "Don't be evil", and they still say that. It's just ...er... de-emphasized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks, Sarah.  Good to know there's still someone out there.

Dan 5J

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Interesting about this conversation is that RAS Prime was started long before the October 27 or so flooding of spam. I recently went back to the first posting of RAS Prime and noticed that one of the main objections to RAS was the content and not the abundance of spam. RAS Prime was first introduced over 18 months ago and as I have noted on several occasions the participation has been minimal to say the least. Moving forward to a more current timeline the spam on RAS has forced many including myself to seek the Prime venue. I do like some of the features of Prime, the picture posting is a nice feature, the format is pretty much the same as RAS.
My question is this, If RAS Prime is not about content then why was it introduced long before the deluge of spam? My own observation was that RAS Prime was a content control platform, please correct me if I am wrong. RAS Prime was NOT developed as an unmoderated or uncensored venue, not that I dislike the venue, I do think that it has advantages over the current RAS, but it was not hardly used until the current flooding of mushrooms, Zanax, penis worshipers, and other fruitcake indulgences. Old Bob, The Purist

[Gijs]

Who is the Admin of this group, because when I click on "About" of this group, it says that "anyone on the Web" can post messages? Isn't that easy to change?

[Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot)]

Yes, but you would need Google to do something. So far, they haven't.

[Sarah Anderson]

Internet news goes back to before dawn of the internet - back when there were mainly government, lab & university network nodes.
It's called "Usenet". It is completely unmoderated, decentralized, and not sponsored by a giant corporation. There is no
"administrator".

Google has their own group of news channels they call "Google groups" This is what RAS_Prime is.
That's where the references to administration & owners comes from.

The original Usenet groups are also distributed by Google, but support is poor. Particularly spam rejection.
The spam storm may pass when Google wakes up. Or not. They have little motivation for supporting Usenet.

I understand non-internet-savvy soaring pilots have little patience with figuring out how to access RAS with a proper news reader
that filters out the spam.

Some of the problems people have are because their ISP may block the default NNTP ports. As a last resort, try reader80
and port 80. They can't block '80', that's the one http uses.

The registration email you get from
eternal-september mentions other news servers that support other "port numbers". Worth trying both, and the unencrypted ones may be
simpler. I use "563" and enable SSL/TLS encryption, YMMV.

----------------------------------
Server name: news.eternal-september.org
----------------------------------
Port : 119
Port : 563 (encrypted)

----------------------------------
Server name: reader80.eternal-september.org
----------------------------------
Port : 80

----------------------------------
Server name: reader443.eternal-september.org
----------------------------------
Port : 443 (encrypted)




On 11/30/23 6:24 AM, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
....

[Jj]

This.....................

>
> Some of the problems people have are because their ISP may block the default NNTP ports. As a last resort, try reader80
> and port 80. They can't block '80', that's the one http uses.
>
> The registration email you get from
> eternal-september mentions other news servers that support other "port numbers". Worth trying both, and the unencrypted ones may be
> simpler. I use "563" and enable SSL/TLS encryption, YMMV.
>
> ----------------------------------
> Server name: news.eternal-september.org
> ----------------------------------
> Port : 119
> Port : 563 (encrypted)
>
> ----------------------------------
> Server name: reader80.eternal-september.org
> ----------------------------------
> Port : 80
>
> ----------------------------------
> Server name: reader443.eternal-september.org
> ----------------------------------
> Port : 443 (encrypted)
>
>

And This.............
หากคุณกำลังมองหาเกมสล็อตออนไลน์ที่เล่นง่าย แตกง่าย จ่ายจริง WY88 คือคำตอบของคุณ ที่นี่เรามีเกมสล็อตให้เลือกเล่นมากกว่า 1,000 เกม จากค่ายเกมชั้นนำทั่วโลก ไม่ว่าจะเป็น PG Slot, Joker123, JDB, 918kiss, เป็นต้น

look the same to me.

[Sarah Anderson]

Not for much longer I fear. The group is choked with spam and the few who switched to eternal-september seem to be a small minority
of RAS users.

My motivation to keep RAS alive is a deep distrust of large corporations and a desire to maintain Usenet as it is.
Decentralized, uncensored (except for spam), and optionally anonymous. Just like being in public, and not owned by Google.
Seriously, if corporations are people they tend to psychopathy.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 10:55:19 AM UTC-6, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> Not for much longer I fear. The group is choked with spam and the few who switched to eternal-september seem to be a small minority
> of RAS users.
>
> My motivation to keep RAS alive is a deep distrust of large corporations and a desire to maintain Usenet as it is.
> Decentralized, uncensored (except for spam), and optionally anonymous. Just like being in public, and not owned by Google.
> Seriously, if corporations are people they tend to psychopathy.
> On 11/28/23 4:48 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:

Sarah - rec.aviation.soaring will continue to live.

It will remain available as a great repository of all of our comments and (especially) questions/answers.

I can't count how many times during my early days of soaring I asked questions to RAS and received many great replies.

RAS will remain my first place to look asking those questions such as "why can I find a ... for an old ...".

- John (OHM)

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

P.S. (to Sarah),

You mention, "I understand non-internet-savvy soaring pilots have little patience with figuring out how to access RAS with a proper news reader

that filters out the spam."

Unfortunately, it isn't just the "non-internet-savvy" among us. It is also those "internet-savvy" millennials who do not have patience and which is exactly who we need to bring into the conversations.

My $0.02

- John (OHM)

[Moshe Braner]

I agree with your sentiments, Sarah. I was participating in Usenet
before "the internet" existed, let alone the "world wide web". So maybe
I'm sentimental and naive. But I miss those days when the participants
were voluntarily civil.

And I don't like Google owning everything and tracking everything about
us. RAS-Prime is set up on Google Groups, so it's still owned by
Google. I'd be a bit happier if it was on some other "platform" (such
as groups.io), but those are all centrally owned and may go "poof" at
any time. Usenet is not owned by anybody, and is distributed, so that
if or when any single repository goes poof it still leaves all the
others intact. Where else but on Usenet can you search for postings
from 20+ years ago? Note how Yahoo Groups got booted, with all the
posting history there lost, except for those groups that bothered to
copy all their postings to a new platform in time. The new platform
each such group chose cannot be counted on for the long term either.

This is also one of the many reasons I don't touch Facebook: besides
being commercial and spying on you etc, it is just not a long-term
strategy for a "collective memory". I keep wishing somebody would come
up with a decentralized model for "social media". Since each persons'
social connections are "localized" around that person, and only venture
farther out to a finite and diminishing extent, it seems that storing
the data locally (within the computers owned by the person, with copies
of relevant parts tending to be stored on that person's "friends") is a
possible model. I gather some young man was working on such software,
and mysteriously dropped dead a few years ago. Nothing to see here,
keep moving along...

[Dan Marotta]

My "Social Media" consists of my email address book.

I have a Facebook account because a decade or more ago my brother
convinced me to sign up.  I closed my account but they "keep your data
for a while in case you decide to come back".  The TV show, Southpark
did a terrific spoof of facebook and those poor souls who are trapped
within.

I wonder if that young man who mysteriously dropped dead had any
connection to Hillary Clinton...

Dan 5J

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

RAS has been a great place to hang the hat , I really love touting the motorglider knuckleheads. Old Eric always had an excuse, never really looked at soaring the way it was supposed to be. 2G, being the nutcase that is is would always come up with some reason as to why he was so brilliant, although he was far from the Mensa Society, probably better off in the animal rescue society. Things hopefully will get back to normality here on RAS, no moderation no curtailment of free speech, and opinions are opinions.
Well I guess the Clintons are hopefully gone from politics, kind of wish they were back, kind of miss all the laughable moments. Old Bob, The Purist

[Steve Leonard]

Well, I will agree that is simpler than the 212 page Guide to Civil Aircraft Registry Electronic Services. CARES, for those who love the government and their acronyms.

https://www.faa.gov/media/66806

If you can make it through all of that, well, they you can avoid sending in a paper Bill of Sale, Application for Aircraft Registration, and a check.

For those wanting to see if something can be done by reporting the spamming, try selecting the box top left to "select all on the page". Scroll down and uncheck any that are real, then, instead of "Report as Spam", select "Promotion of Regulated Goods and Services". Maybe that will carry a higher weight? Or, look to other than just "Spam".

Now, to really dream big, once I have reported it, Dear Google Group Viewer, can you please just hide it, and not show a place holder for it saying "This conversation is hidden because you reported it for abuse." That is the most useless POS answer I have seen, but why should I not expect it from Google? So good at some things, worthless as a wind driven generator on a calm night on so many other things.

Steve Leonard

[Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot)]

Steve, I like your "mass method" of reporting the spam. I was happy to see the blue stop sign on a thread and click that....saved some steps over reporting 1 by 1.

[Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot)]

Using "mass method", I just...
Well, I just spent the time to report over 1200 threads as "spam" or "other". In that, there were 3(?) valid threads for this group.
Oh, and it got me to 11/29/23

[metca...@gmail.com]

I've been continuing on a daily basis since my post on 28Nov - around 100 spams a day (and being careful not to knobble the occasional real posts).
Sad, I know, but it *is* raining ;-o)
With several of us doing this, perhaps we will (eventually) not be ignored by Google as nutters? !! ???
James.

[Dan Marotta]

...And all of this is because some (perhaps many) glider pilots can not
or don't want to learn how to use a newsreader.

Since I haven't seen much relevant glider-centric discussion in quite
some time and my tolerance of the motorglider vs. pure glider
controversy (?) is dwindling and my lack of interest in who's on the
world or national teams is growing, it won't be long before I say,
"Hasta la vista, Baby".

Dan 5J

[Eric G]

No, no, don't leave! Please say you'll be Bach!
Eric G

[Eric G]

On 12/7/2023 7:38 AM, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 10:45:07 PM UTC-5, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 3:49:19 PM UTC-5, Steve Leonard wrote:

......

>>>
>>> If you can make it through all of that, well, they you can avoid sending in a paper Bill of Sale, Application for Aircraft Registration, and a check.
>>>
>>> For those wanting to see if something can be done by reporting the spamming, try selecting the box top left to "select all on the page". Scroll down and uncheck any that are real, then, instead of "Report as Spam", select "Promotion of Regulated Goods and Services". Maybe that will carry a higher weight? Or, look to other than just "Spam".
>>>
>>> Now, to really dream big, once I have reported it, Dear Google Group Viewer, can you please just hide it, and not show a place holder for it saying "This conversation is hidden because you reported it for abuse." That is the most useless POS answer I have seen, but why should I not expect it from Google? So good at some things, worthless as a wind driven generator on a calm night on so many other things.
>>>
>>> Steve Leonard
>> Steve, I like your "mass method" of reporting the spam. I was happy to see the blue stop sign on a thread and click that....saved some steps over reporting 1 by 1.
> Using "mass method", I just...
> Well, I just spent the time to report over 1200 threads as "spam" or "other". In that, there were 3(?) valid threads for this group.
> Oh, and it got me to 11/29/23

I was also reporting the spam until the flood became a tsunami.
Eric G

[Charles Coyne]

Since I am unable to read the many foreign languages in the barrage, I'm assuming they are all hate mail, and reporting them as such rather than simple spam.

[Ramy]

Looks like Google found a “solution” to the problem. They removing newsgroups support all together.
“
Effective February 22, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical data will still be supported as it is done today.”

FWIW I have a feeling the reason for the sudden spams is someone started forwarding all spam’s to RAS.

We need a new moderated Google group, or groups.io. I believe very few folks still use newsreaders nowadays.

Ramy

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Ramy, sit tight, something new is coming, I think people will see it as a good solution, and not moderated by a Fuhrer. OBTP

[Dan Marotta]

For the love of God, we don't need moderation!  We just need adults who
can exercise the will to not read what they do not want to see.

Dan 5J

[Ramy]

Dan, Sure, the very few die hards who still use newsreaders can continue participate in RAS, expect the same number of participants as you seeing now, at best. Actually much less since Google will stop hosting newsgroups starting February. It is going to be very quiet.
Moderation does not necessarily mean content moderation, just spam control, like many Google groups and groups.io.
OBTP, I hope the new RAS you referring to is not yet another type of online forum which hardly anyone use. Google groups or groups.io is the way to go. I thought we already have RASPrime as a Google group?

Ramy

[Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot)]

Yes, there is, it's at...
https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime
It has started to pick up after the spam flood here.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 6:47:44 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:

Ramy, in the case of RAS Prime moderation means content control and intent to limit free speech. My phone call from DeRosa was just that, when you get to the point of defining content and displaying lack of candor then you have exceeded the true meaning of moderation. Moderation should be used to limit spamming not limiting speech and controlling content that is not spamming. The new site has been in the works for several months, will probably be Xenforo based and will be moderated by committee that will be rational in determination, and one will not receive a phone call complaining about Santa not flying a motorglider, some people need to get a life. OBTP

[Dan Marotta]

Ramy, I heard from a reliable source that a long time poster on RAS has
received a message from the "moderator" telling him that he shouldn't
say things that upset some folks.  Now, being an "old diehard", I recall
from my youth the type who will either toss out someone whom he doesn't
like or just "take his ball and go home".

I know of a moderated email group which requires application and
approval to get in.  They are word wide, have been operating for decades
and have a remarkable history to research for problem resolution.  I am
a member of that group and it is knowledgeable, helpful, and polite. 
Since it's an email group, there is no spam.  Maybe you could set up 
something like that.  You could create it, get the word out, and send
invitations before google drops the hammer.

It should not be too difficult to set up an email group focused on
gliding and I wish you luck should you, or anyone else who's interested
decide to take up the challenge.

Dan 5J

[Ramy]

Dan, Bob, I hear ya, yet I for one (and I suspect most) , prefer one common replacement for RAS such as yahoo groups or groups.io, vs yet another forum to join and follow. It’s enough that we now have 2 web sites to follow for flight traces from our friends (OLC and WeGlide) I sure hope I wouldn’t need to follow 2 RAS replacements, even if I may miss some of OBTP entertainment.
For now I’ll be following RAS_Prime.

Ramy

[Dan Marotta]

You left out skylines.aero (:-)), a flight tracking website that I use
since I can use knots, feet, and nautical miles (the unit I have flown
with for about 51 years).  They're also linked with weglide.  I have
found OLC to be a real pain having to enter my wife's birth date just to
mention that she was my copilot. Seriously, what is the purpose for
demanding so much personal information?

I'd be happy to switch to another platform so long as there's nobody
with the power to tell anyone what they can or can't say.

Dan 5J

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Dan and Ramy, I will tell you with confidence that there will be NO limiting what people can say! There will be a section called the Octagon, where you can voice dislike with many topics and discussions. I belong to a couple such forums and they are fantastic no participant would ever get a call from a moderator telling the individual that he dislike Santa Clause post even if he doesn't fly a motorglider. I use the term moderator only because it is the term most associated with forum control or management, in the recent case of the Santa Doesn't Fly a Motorglider, it personal dislike of the moderator was completely wrong and counter productive. I think my reply was a very effective way of saying kiss my ass. There has been a great deal of support the last few days for the development of a different place for many to hang their hats. we have nothing to lose in trying something new and more friendly, I will keep you posted. Old Bob, The Purist
Merry Christmas, and Santa would never fly a motorglider!

[Dan Marotta]

What???  Reindeer are engines for Santa's sleigh, hence, Santa *does*
fly a motor glider!  Oh...  And they're *green* since they run on bio fuel.

Dan 5J

[Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot)]

Good news I think. It appears Google is killing some of the spammer accounts. It didn't take me long to scroll back to 11/6/23 to find good pages.
Maybe they're just house cleaning before freezing this group.