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How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion steering arm?
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Arlen Holder
Dec 21, 2020, 7:06:23 AM12/21/20
to
How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion
steering arm?
Please don't tell me it's dangerous, nor that it has to be replaced, nor
that you can do it yourself, nor that it will last only a day, etc.
My problem set is that I told someone they need to replace that badly torn
boot I found by looking, and they don't have the money or skills, so
they're gonna live with it (residential roads, California weather, which is
to say rain for three months and nothing but clean sunshine for the rest of
the year).
If you have never driven with a torn steering boot in a typical Japanese
sedan, then you won't be able to answer the question, as I can't answer it
either.
They asked me how long it would take before it fails, and I told them they
don't want to have it fail, but I'm stuck with what is so that's why I ask.
Again, if you've never driven with a torn boot, you can't possibly know the
answer to the question (unless you know of someone who did).
In that case, how long did the person drive before the link eventually
failed?
steering arm?
Please don't tell me it's dangerous, nor that it has to be replaced, nor
that you can do it yourself, nor that it will last only a day, etc.
My problem set is that I told someone they need to replace that badly torn
boot I found by looking, and they don't have the money or skills, so
they're gonna live with it (residential roads, California weather, which is
to say rain for three months and nothing but clean sunshine for the rest of
the year).
If you have never driven with a torn steering boot in a typical Japanese
sedan, then you won't be able to answer the question, as I can't answer it
either.
They asked me how long it would take before it fails, and I told them they
don't want to have it fail, but I'm stuck with what is so that's why I ask.
Again, if you've never driven with a torn boot, you can't possibly know the
answer to the question (unless you know of someone who did).
In that case, how long did the person drive before the link eventually
failed?
Xeno
Dec 21, 2020, 11:05:02 PM12/21/20
to
grit* out. By not replacing the boot post haste you risk premature wear
and abrasion of the steering rack internals. Be aware that as the boot
flexes it flows air back and forth. It will, in effect, suck in dirt and
grit though the tear. My friend's Benz had such a tear and the damage to
the internal rack components was significant. Minor tear led to a major
repair job and, worse, it was a *Power Rack*. All new pressure seals,
complete clean out of the entire hydraulic system, etc. etc.
My advice is - see a torn boot, replace it immediately. If the owner
cannot afford to fix such a simple issue then you have to question
whether they can afford to own and operate a car.
--
Xeno
Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
root
Dec 22, 2020, 11:33:08 AM12/22/20
to
Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> The boot keeps lubricant in and water out but it also keeps *dirt and
> grit* out. By not replacing the boot post haste you risk premature wear
> and abrasion of the steering rack internals. Be aware that as the boot
> flexes it flows air back and forth. It will, in effect, suck in dirt and
> grit though the tear.
There was a similar boot around the U-joints in a van I owned. I
> The boot keeps lubricant in and water out but it also keeps *dirt and
> grit* out. By not replacing the boot post haste you risk premature wear
> and abrasion of the steering rack internals. Be aware that as the boot
> flexes it flows air back and forth. It will, in effect, suck in dirt and
> grit though the tear.
modified the drive train on the van in a way that caused the
boots on the U-joints to flex and fail within a short time.
After replacing the boots a few times I decided to just wait
for them to fail before replacing the boots. The van went
tens of thousands of miles without the U-joints failing.
Literally YMMV
Xeno
Dec 23, 2020, 1:37:50 AM12/23/20
to
like a *bellows*. It is much more likely to suck in dirt, water, grit, etc.
Arlen Holder
Dec 23, 2020, 7:14:22 PM12/23/20
to
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 17:37:44 +1100, Xeno wrote:
> Not the same at all. As I intimated above, the steering boot acts more
> like a *bellows*. It is much more likely to suck in dirt, water, grit, etc.
Hi Xeno & root,
> Not the same at all. As I intimated above, the steering boot acts more
> like a *bellows*. It is much more likely to suck in dirt, water, grit, etc.
I do very much appreciate what you wrote and I will _try_ to impart this
information on the owner.
I care very much about this owner, but I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know
what pitfalls I might run into if I attempted to replace the boot myself.
It's a 2005 Camry LE where I just don't want to volunteer to replace it and
they end up with a car stuck on the blocks, so I feel pained that it's
gonna stay this way for now. Sigh.
I don't know what to do.
o If it were mine, I'd just replace it, but it's not mine.
Xeno
Dec 24, 2020, 1:25:15 AM12/24/20
to
On 24/12/20 11:14 am, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 17:37:44 +1100, Xeno wrote:
>
>> Not the same at all. As I intimated above, the steering boot acts more
>> like a *bellows*. It is much more likely to suck in dirt, water, grit, etc.
>
> Hi Xeno & root,
> I do very much appreciate what you wrote and I will _try_ to impart this
> information on the owner.
I wouldn't have thought it a difficult task at all. If you are careful
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 17:37:44 +1100, Xeno wrote:
>
>> Not the same at all. As I intimated above, the steering boot acts more
>> like a *bellows*. It is much more likely to suck in dirt, water, grit, etc.
>
> Hi Xeno & root,
> I do very much appreciate what you wrote and I will _try_ to impart this
> information on the owner.
and methodical you won't even need to do a wheel alignment afterwards.
>
> I care very much about this owner, but I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know
> what pitfalls I might run into if I attempted to replace the boot myself.
>
> It's a 2005 Camry LE where I just don't want to volunteer to replace it and
> they end up with a car stuck on the blocks, so I feel pained that it's
> gonna stay this way for now. Sigh.
>
> I don't know what to do.
> o If it were mine, I'd just replace it, but it's not mine.
>
> I care very much about this owner, but I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know
> what pitfalls I might run into if I attempted to replace the boot myself.
>
> It's a 2005 Camry LE where I just don't want to volunteer to replace it and
> they end up with a car stuck on the blocks, so I feel pained that it's
> gonna stay this way for now. Sigh.
>
> I don't know what to do.
> o If it were mine, I'd just replace it, but it's not mine.
>
Arlen Holder
Dec 25, 2020, 9:52:19 PM12/25/20
to
On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 17:25:08 +1100, Xeno wrote:
> I wouldn't have thought it a difficult task at all. If you are careful
> and methodical you won't even need to do a wheel alignment afterwards.
Hi Xeno,
> I wouldn't have thought it a difficult task at all. If you are careful
> and methodical you won't even need to do a wheel alignment afterwards.
Merry Christmas!
Thank you for always being purposefully helpful.
o You're a dream come true as you are, like me, a good person indeed.
I've never owned a FWD vehicle in my life, so I don't really know how to
work on them, but they sure look pretty jam packed in there down below.
I've done clutches on SUVs and cooling systems on almost anything, and
starter motors and BMW CCV valves (which was the hardest of all, given it's
_under_ the bimmer engine), etc.
For the drive train, long ago, when I was a kid, I did a drive shaft
U-joint on a Chrysler (my Dad was a Chrysler man), and the pitman arm,
idler arm, ball joints, and tie rod ends on a Dodge Dart (that's when I
learned that alignment shops charge you for an alignment and they don't do
a single thing - they lie and cheat and steal left and right).
When I was a kid, I did the motor mounts on that Dodge Dart (where I
learned that AAMCO lied and cheated and stole from people left and right
because they insisted I needed a new transmission and they put OLD OIL back
when I told them I didn't have the money and as it turned out, they lied).
A decade or so ago I did the struts on a Toyota SUV (the compression was no
more dangerous than when I did wound my garage door torsion springs)...
But... but... but...
1. I've never worked on a FWD car in my life, and,
2. It's not my car
3. So there are all sorts of pitfalls when working on someone else's car
Mostly people blame you for everything that goes wrong.
o I've learned this the hard way.
So unless it's changing the oil or brakes (where nothing really goes
wrong), I'm worried about putting a new boot on this 2005 Camry LE.
I just don't have the experience or knowledge of how to do it without
hiccups, I think, but I don't really know what it entails.
Steve W.
Dec 26, 2020, 5:21:43 AM12/26/20
to
outer tie rod off the end.
The basics are to get the car up so you can get under it. Then you pop
the tire off for room. Now lock the steering in position, either with
the key or a steering lock or whatever, you don't want it to be able to
move. Next take an accurate tape and measure from the stud on the tie
rod to a fixed point or two on the car, something like a bolt or control
arm mount. Then from the lock nut on the tie rod to another fixed point.
Then across from one tire to the other like you were setting the toe.
The next step depends on what method you want to use, I generally will
simply break the tie rod lock nut free after marking it's position with
a marker, then once it's out of the way make a mark on the tie rod where
the end is positioned. Then turn the tie rod and keep rotating it until
the tie rod end comes free. The inner joint is nothing but a ball and
socket like a tie rod turned on its side. Once they are apart, you
remove the remnants of the boot, then clean out the rack with a seal
safe solvent and keep flushing it until nothing comes out like grit,
dirt or anything else. Do not use high pressure as you could push crud
in past the seals. Once clean you put the new boot on apply a small bit
of the same power steering fluid the car uses into the rack to act as a
lube for the seals, but don't fasten the boot clamps yet. You still need
to rotate the tie rod to put the outer back on. Rotate the tie rod until
you get back to the mark you made before you took the rod end off, if
you were careful toy shouldn't even disturb the toe. Then put the
locknut back, and check that mark. Now verify that by using the
measurements you took to verify that it's back in the same spot.
Now that you have it all together rotate the steering wheel back and
forth a couple times, check that fluid isn't being pushed out of the
rack due to a bad seal, now center the steering and tighten the boot
clamps.
Put the tire back on, torque the lug nuts, return the car and collect
your fee.
If it's not rusted or totally jammed together the replacement
shouldn't take more than a 1/2 hour.
--
Steve W.
Arlen Holder
Dec 26, 2020, 10:31:37 PM12/26/20
to
On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:21:50 -0500, Steve W. wrote:
> It's not all that hard really. The hardest part is usually getting the
> outer tie rod off the end.
Hi Steve,
> It's not all that hard really. The hardest part is usually getting the
> outer tie rod off the end.
Thank God there are purposefully helpful people like you and Xeno on this
newsgroup, as I'm no mechanic (just a reasonably well educated engineer).
The last time I replaced tie rod ends was on that Dodge Dart, but it wasn't
bad, as I recall, as you unbolt one end and use the pickle fork on the
other, where I _still_ have that half-a-century old set of pickle forks!
Bang. Bang. Pop. As I recall, at least on the ball joint separation task.
> The basics are to get the car up so you can get under it.
stands, as I rotate tires all the time that way on sedans and SUVs.
When I removed the transmission from a Toyota SUV, I had enough space for
that too, but I had to remove the mid cross member to get the tranny out.
o Clutch bolts and locktite
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.autos.tech/c/wEVm6kdNo2o/>
> Then you pop the tire off for room. Now lock the steering in position, either with
> the key or a steering lock or whatever, you don't want it to be able to
> move.
wheel lock; but that's one tool I just jury rig with pillows & clamps.
> Next take an accurate tape and measure from the stud on the tie
> rod to a fixed point or two on the car, something like a bolt or control
> arm mount. Then from the lock nut on the tie rod to another fixed point.
> Then across from one tire to the other like you were setting the toe.
o Although with a helper, a tape measure to a marked center point works.
> The next step depends on what method you want to use, I generally will
> simply break the tie rod lock nut free after marking it's position with
> a marker, then once it's out of the way make a mark on the tie rod where
> the end is positioned.
o I've been meaning to get toe plates, a camber jig & a camber gauge...
> Then turn the tie rod and keep rotating it until
> the tie rod end comes free. The inner joint is nothing but a ball and
> socket like a tie rod turned on its side. Once they are apart, you
> remove the remnants of the boot, then clean out the rack with a seal
> safe solvent and keep flushing it until nothing comes out like grit,
> dirt or anything else. Do not use high pressure as you could push crud
> in past the seals.
> Once clean you put the new boot on apply a small bit
> of the same power steering fluid the car uses into the rack to act as a
> lube for the seals, but don't fasten the boot clamps yet.
> You still need
> to rotate the tie rod to put the outer back on. Rotate the tie rod until
> you get back to the mark you made before you took the rod end off, if
> you were careful toy shouldn't even disturb the toe.
> Then put the
> locknut back, and check that mark. Now verify that by using the
> measurements you took to verify that it's back in the same spot.
o You make it sound so simple! :)
> Now that you have it all together rotate the steering wheel back and
> forth a couple times, check that fluid isn't being pushed out of the
> rack due to a bad seal, now center the steering and tighten the boot
> clamps.
> Put the tire back on, torque the lug nuts, return the car and collect
> your fee.
> If it's not rusted or totally jammed together the replacement
> shouldn't take more than a 1/2 hour.
o I think you talked me into it, as I hate seeing them with that torn boot!
However, it _will_ take me a _lot_ longer than what anyone says it should.
Considering it took me a week (elapsed time) to replace the clutch (I had
to belatedly buy a flywheel and rear transmission seals in the process),
and considering I take, oh, I don't know, a couple hours just to change oil
(I take my sweet time and look about and clean up things), I'm sure it will
be an all-day job for me (nobody ever called me "speedy gonzales").
But if you think it's about a 1/2 hour job, a half day would be my expected
good turnaround time, with a full day as my failsafe time, which, if that
works out, it gives me the opportunity to make a few mistakes & recover
from them.
Based on what you wrote, I think I'll buy a boot for the owner and when
they next visit as I said I'd give them a Christmas gift of a repair.
So I'm already scheduled to replace their front brakes & oil & filter...
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fLhPShnR/brakes01.jpg>
So "maybe" I will have a steering boot waiting for them at the same time.
--
What I love about Usenet is good people purposefully help each other.
ForgottenNasalPassage
Feb 1, 2021, 11:03:08 AM2/1/21
to
after damage. You need to avoid contamination of the grease in the
joint, which is the main purpose of the boot.
Grease can be removed with solvent: acetone, alcohol, napthalene will
all work.
The repair is a tape-like product from the hardware store. it's not
tape, but a product that bonds to itself when stretched. Just about
any hardware store should carry it.
This is a response to the post seen at:
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=582443113#582443113
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