120mm cassette hubs

[Bill Lindsay]

Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 5 and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing. That's a pretty exciting development for a lot of folks. They have the cog sets as well. I hope the freewheel hoarders aren't angry about it.

If I understand the manufacturing relationships, we'll probably see these hubs under a couple other labels as well

[Stephen S]

A wider range 5 speed cassette would be nice. I have a 14-28 5-speed freewheel on my 72' Bob Jackson and I'd hate to lose the climbing gears....

[Bill Lindsay]

That's not all that hard a problem to find a solution for.  You could buy their 14-28 six-speed cassette and just run an 8-speed chain.  I'm sure the rest of your drivetrain would take that, wouldn't you think?  Or, if you've stockpiled a bunch of 5-speed chains and want to stay period, they built those cassettes out of contemporary ones, so you could mix and match the cogs you want.  Their 14-24 five-speed is probably a 14-16-18-21-24 and your 14-28 five speed is probably 14-17-20-24-28.  It's a little work, but if the lack of rear wheel options has been keeping your fine Jack Taylor unridden, this has got to be a welcome development.  

[justin...@gmail.com]

While I love this and everything they do, I'm curious as to what the difference between this and the (already available, contrary to Jan's statement) Suntour hubs? Rebaged? Upgraded bearings? Anything?

-J

[Stephen S]

I'd have to either spread or cold-set the rear spacing and I'd like to keep it 5-speed for the time-being.

The rest of the drivetrain would be fine. I went from a 50-42 Campy Record crankset to a 53-39 Shimano Ultegra 9-speed crankset to get some lower ratios and I run a 9 speed chain.  

[Bill Lindsay]

stephen s

the 14-28 six speed cassette fits on the same 120mm hub. no cold setting needed. you are golden!

[Bill Lindsay]

Justin

Where can I buy a Suntour 120mm cassette hub?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Fortunately, most Rivs are 130 or 135 mm!

[justin...@gmail.com]

Ah,
Looks like they haven't made it over here yet. They're on their website and folks takes of importing them but I guess no one did. Probably due to a lack of cassettes unless there were undisclosed problems. I stand corrected about US availability unless these were just vaporware.

-Justin

[jandrews_nyc]

Couldn't this be a way for us Simpleone / Quickbeam riders to get geared for a hilly weekend?  I think you'd just need a bolt-on derailleur hanger attachment and a shifter cable guide.

Jason

[Ron Mc]

It's a great thing.  14-28 in a 5 or 6 is a great choice with the right chainrings.  On my 13-28 6-speed rear, I have a cyclotouriste triple with half-steps (47/42) and a 26T escape ring.  This gives me 4-inch steps from 26" to 95" with no overlaps.  

[Brian Campbell]

I used a Suntour Ultra 6 speed freewheel. I had no trouble finding one on ebay that was brand new for about $40. 46/42/28 triple up front. Not sure why you would need a whole new wheel set unless you wanted one.

[Ron Mc]

I think a lot of people are buying nice old frames and building up good bikes from them.  You can stretch a 126mm frame to fit a 130mm hub.  Can't really do that with 120mm frame.  

[Jeremy Till]

I wonder if the flange spacing would work out such that if they built a 130mm version of this hub with the 5/6spd freehub body, it would build into a practically dishless wheel, as is the case with the Phil 130/135 spaced freewheel hubs.  That would be a great way to build a bomber wheel without relying on the iffy availability of quality freewheels. 

[Bill Lindsay]

Brian

That supply of freewheels and even hubs does exist on the ebay market, but it will eventually dry up.  Now maybe even that market might get watered down and keep the prices low. 

Compass claimed these are aimed at people who own a nice 50s - 70s racing bike, which typically have great clearances.  You've got your classic racing bike set up correctly with tubulars.  The bike rides great but you are concerned about flatting out on the road or just damaging a nice tubular wheelset.  Now it's easier to set up a nice set of clincher wheels to make your classic racing bike both a rider and a display bike. 

They also make it possible for a maniacal Q-factor zealot to spec a custom frame around 120mm OLD and get an ultra narrow q-factor. 

[Brian Campbell]

All true. I run a 1978 Raleigh Pro w/ Challenge tires and 7 speed IRD freewheel, 46/30 TA crankset. It is a really nice ride. I get the concept and am a supporter. I just never thought the supply of freewheels was that low. I learn something each day!

[Garth]

http://www.compasscycle.com/hub_gb_hf.html

Note: The cassette bodies are made from aluminum, and should be used with high-end cassettes that have a carrier hub for all but the smallest three cogs.

• Shimano/SRAM-compatible
  (8-, 9-, 10-speed)
• Campagnolo-compatible
  (10-speed)
• 130 mm rear spacing

 

This is stating then it is for 5,6 or 7 speeds ?  It appears so.

Wish they had it in 135 though.

[Philip Williamson]

This is something I've been looking forward to (in a cheaper Suntour version) for a while, in order to quickly re-gear my fixed-gear porteur bike. Clamp on shifters, an adapter claw, and the 120 spaced cassette wheel would let me change between geared and fixed in two shakes of a lamb's tail. For extra cheapness, I could just have a short section of chain and a couple connector links, rather than a whole second chain. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

[Bill Lindsay]

Jim

Since you know the history as well as most people, let me ask your opinion on a hypothetical:

We both know Grant was an early low-Q-factor guy.  We both remember he resisted going from 126 to 130 on the RB's, and resisted going from 130 to 135 on the MBs.  He reluctantly went wider.  Rivendell pretty consistently has said that anything more than 7 cogs in back is unnecessary, and is even preferable if you want to use friction shifting.  

So, the hypothetical is:  

Assume 120mm, 126mm, 130mm and 135mm rear hubs were widely available at all price and quality levels

Assume all length cassette bodies were available for every number of rear cassette cogs from 1 to 11 cogs 

Assume cassette cogs were available to build all conceivable custom combinations 

Assume nice narrow Q-factor cranksets were available in singles doubles and triples at all price points and quality levels

If all those things were true, do you think Grant would be designing almost exclusively 135mm (Roadeo=130) rear end bikes?  Or do you think Grant would be saying that narrow Q-factor is valuable and you don't need so many cogs?  Would Rivendell be selling a 2x5 tenspeed?  Or a 3x5 15-speed?  I don't know for sure.  

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:52:59 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

It's hard to analyze Grant's mind, since we are not Grant, but I say that it is possible to have both more cogs and less Q since OL spacing contributes relatively little to Q. 

Q is determined mostly by crank arm angle and only relatively little by rear OL spacing. Hell, how wide apart your feet are is determined more by the type of pedal you use than by OL spacing -- after all, from 120 to 135 is exactly 1.5 cm or .6 inch, and a wide platform pedal compared to, say, the Dura Ace SPDs I use, is more than that. I've run a 145 mm Phil spindle on a 135 OL frame with stays wide enough for 60s + fenders + mud, and the Q was only 150.

I ran a 10 sp on my 130 spaced custom with a Q of 130. Now that was with a single ring on a Pro 5 Vis and a 113 mm bb spindl, but even a double would have meant a Q of no more than 115 -- and this on a rather wide stayed frame. Even the X2D or XD2 on the Fargo, which accepts 65 mm tires with fenders and gap, is only 160 mm, with room to take out at least 5 mm if not a whole cm, if only you could find the right bb and crank combination.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--

RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!

Certified Resume Writer
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

patric...@resumespecialties.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/

Albuquerque, NM

[Patrick Moore]

I meant to say: "... but even a double would have meant a Q of no more than 132 mm with a 115 mm spindle" -- which is what I have on my Ram.

I ran a 10 sp on my 130 spaced custom with a Q of 130. Now that was with a single ring on a Pro 5 Vis and a 113 mm bb spindl, but even a double would have meant a Q of no more than 115 -

--

[Ron Mc]

at some point it becomes all about what components are available.  The current norm of 11 to 32 9- and 10-speed cassettes, and 46/30 compact cranksets pretty much dictates your frame building.  I don't think we'll see 120mm wide road bikes back on the market.  

[rob markwardt]

I think these are realy cool looking and would work great, but I'd be more concerned about  the supply of the new 5 speed cassettes than I would old freewheels. There must have been millions of freewheels cranked out over the years.  I'm guessing the rush to buy this new hub will be limited at best and as much as I love my old 120mm spaced bikes I realize I'm in the huge minority. 

[Patrick Moore]

As long as you have the correct spacers, you can always buy loose cogs and roll your own. 

[Anton Tutter]

Exactly.  I sort of see these hubs as creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and in the process, ensuring there will be a problem down the road.

I honestly don't get why one wouldn't just build a clincher wheelset with NOS or used freewheel hubs and freewheels.  Keeps your old road bike more period sensitive, anyway.  Seems like there is a pretty regular supply of these on places like eBay.  The appeal of these hubs is going to be very limited.

Anton

[Bill Lindsay]

ONLY 150?  ONLY 160?  Any q-factor zealot worth their salt would give both of those numbers the same name:  "doing the splits!"  teehee!  :)  Joke!  Playful!  Grin!

You are mostly right that you can get pretty narrow with modern parts and wide tires.  I too have a 10-sp rear end 130 OLD bike, with 650x42B tires, metal fenders, 10mm clearance all around and 140mm Q (now that's deserving of an ONLY haha grin!).  But at some point the thing that stops you from going narrower is that your heel hits your R der or chainstay, or your crankarm is too close to the chainstay, both of which get a little more room with a narrower OLD.  The flipside is that you probably can go too narrow, at least for chainline.  

Trust me, I'm not in a big rush to order a custom 120mm rear end bike, nor am I going to go snap up a 1960s Cinelli and do a restoration.  I think what I was getting at was that Grant did stick with 6/7 cogs for a very long time, with B-stone and early Riv.  More than 7 was just stupid and superfluous.  8? ok, I guess that's only one too many, but 9 or 10 or 11?  that's just crazy (or so the thinking went).  My hypothetical was that if there were no component choice constraints, would he have stopped at 7?  I think he might have.  And if he did stop at 7, would he still gone to 135?  Maybe he would have, because it does yield a strong dishless rear wheel.   

Patrick, you love your racer-history:  Do you remember what Eddy Merckx' favorite freewheel cogs were?

[Philip Williamson]

Actually, it looks like the Compass version will be cheaper than the Sun XCD, judging by the equivalent 130mm hub on the SomaFab site.  

Soma has the full-width body 130mm Sun XCD cassette hubs for $240, and Compass will sell the rear short-body 120mm hub for $185, and a hub set for $265. I don't imagine the special 120mm hub from Sun XCD will be cheaper than the normal 130mm hub. 

Philip

www.philipwilliamson.com

[Garth]

If someone had the conviction to still build 7 speed cassette hubs in 135mm, I'd buy them today. Better yet, hubs that are customizable with different size bodies and axles. But the Mind is fickle .... I want more ... no , I want less ... I want this, that and the other.  Oh wait .... just what was it I wanted in the first place ?  Oh yes ... well , that wish has changed to this wish, then this to another that. And so the Mind goes round and round within itself.

Fickle ;)

No, I don't go along with "this is what the people wanted, or what the industry gave us or this or that trend" .  No excuses.... lol. Nope. It appears it's up to me as no one is going to give me what I want, but me ;)

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/23/2013 04:03 PM, Garth wrote:
>
> If someone had the conviction to still build 7 speed cassette hubs in
> 135mm, I'd buy them today.

What is your issue with using a 135mm cassette hub with a spacer and a 7
speed cassette? I've been doing that for years with my Kogswells, and
it works perfectly well.

[Bill Lindsay]

"Do you remember what Eddy Merckx' favorite freewheel cogs were?"

I read somewhere, but cannot corroborate on the interwebs at the moment, that Eddy liked to run a 13/14/15/15/16 five speed freewheel, or something really similar to that.  He ran two cogs of the same size in the middle for chainline reasons.  That always cracked me up.  Talk about a corncob freewheel!

[Garth]

Because One can choose !

If I prefer less wheel dish, and find the idea of a spacer redundant and unnecessary, that is my choice.

Do I have to buy any given frame someone makes as stock and try to "fit into it" ?  Of course not, I can choose it any way I wish. Why need parts be any different ?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/23/2013 05:40 PM, Garth wrote:

Because One can choose !

If I prefer less wheel dish, and find the idea of a spacer redundant and unnecessary, that is my choice.

Do I have to buy any given frame someone makes as stock and try to "fit into it" ?  Of course not, I can choose it any way I wish. Why need parts be any different ?

There are 7 speed freehub bodies available.  Do they fit?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I'm not too interested in assuming a bunch of hypotheticals and conjecturing based on those assumptions. I was really just pointing out that 120 mm cassette hubs aren't terribly related to Rivendell bikes. That product is probably more appropriate for somebody who wants the benefits of a cassette on a 40-year-old frame. I concede that some Riv people are into 40-year-old frames.

[Philip Williamson]

I have a seven speed cassette (with spacer) on my 135 OLD gravel roadster bike. Yep, works great. Better than the nine speed cassette: easier friction shifts and a wider range.

Philip
www.biketinker.come

[Philip Williamson]

Or people who want to kludge a Legolas out of their Quickbeam...

Philip
www.biketinker.com