The Mysterious Homer

[Daniel Jackson]

Many other Rivs get a lot of press here, but I really haven't heard much on the Homer. Curious about the ride of this bike - it's liveliness as compared to an Atlantis or Hillborne. Is its tubing relatively lighter? Is it a softer feel? Is it more beautiful?

Considering one as my all round dirt road bike and looking for something springy with centerpulls and clearance for 38s with fenders.

[Tony DeFilippo]

Everyone with Homers/Salukis are just out riding! ;).

I don't know about smoother or more beautiful, Riv does a good job describing the frame on their own site. One way you could look at it is that it's the design niche Riv has left alone for the most part since it has been introduced. It's their 'hi end' Country Bike, roadish - but dirt capable, fastish -but light tour capable, and of course the classic good looks.

Back in Oct when Pondero made his DC visit and we met up on the C&O towpath we had 5 saluki's or Homer's out of 6-7 Riv's if I'm remembering correctly, and it would have been 6 if Pudge had brought his as well...

Mine is set up upright and racked/bagged for commuting and it is likely to remain my primary commuter for a very long time. It's smooth and gorgeous and all around extremely neutral in its handling. I think it's my 'best' bike. I think if 38mm/fenders or 42ish w/o works for you and you like the styling you'll be extremely happy with a Homer.

[Liesl]

I have a wee Saluki from the very first run. I whole-heartedly agree with Tony's comments.  Smooth, gorgeous, capable, spritely.

There are some very nice touches like double-tapered seat tube stays, lovely lugs (of course), pretty paint...I might say it's the elegant end of gorgeous.  And yet can play rough too.  If you go snooping around on flicker groups, lots of them are playing in the snow.

As a side question, anyone remember when the Saluki/Homer models were merged? Salukis were first and came out maybe 2005/2006?  My memory is that the sequence was: wilbury/mixtes as the first 650b, then salukis, then bleriots.  Then the Homers were added as a 700 wheel version of the 650b saluki, and then they were rolled into one model and all called homers.  Is this right? The one thing I can spot on the homer chart that's different from the saluki's is that salukis had a canti option (I know that is perhaps my one fact that I can verify because my bike has them) and homers add a second top tube for the big bikes.

Here's some shots of mine in her current boscoed tweed incarnation.

[Steve Palincsar]

The Saluki came first.

[Bill Lindsay]

The tubing of the Hilsen is lighter than the tubing of the Atlantis.  What's your height and weight?  Will this bike be used predominantly unloaded, like a road bike?

[Pondero]

+1 on what Tony said.

I had a Homer, sold it to pursue another project, and ended missing it and buying another to replace it.  It's my all-rounder.  I'm relatively light and can use it for mult-day touring.  I ride it often on some rugged gravel roads and some trails.  I've built it up with drop bars and  albatross bars and both work quite well for me.  For most of my range of cycling, it does everything very well...and its handsome.  Based on your (admittedly brief) description, I think it is smart to give it serious consideration. 

Chris Johnson

Sanger, Texas

[David Stein]

One thing about the Homer is it almost never shows up for sale. Homer owners must love it enough to not sell it (Chris's experience aside).

I am actually curious to how the Homer compares to some of the modern rando bikes (boulder all road, ocean air rambler, etc). Low train vs. mid trail handling and front load vs. rear load aside, i'm curious about the liveliness and spritelyness between them for long day rides and light touring/overnighters. They all seem to fill that niche of a do it all, wide tire with fenders, racks for bags, road to trail type bike.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/xeQPi8CKt_A/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I agree whole-heartedly with what Chris and Tony said.  I have a 61cm 700C Hilsen set up as a pure road bike, and I use it as my go-fast bike for group road rides (although it is sporting the 38mm Barlow Pass tires).  Everyone else on those rides is rocking some kind of expensive carbon bike, and they always ooh and aah over the Hilsen's looks before shaking their heads at how heavy it must be.  I mostly don't get dropped, though, and if I do it's definitely not Homer's fault!  It is an absolutely delightful bike to ride – utterly comfortable and laid-back, yet simultaneously very responsive to steering input and effort.

 

I also have an S&S coupled Saluki (59cm, and obviously 650B), which I intend to use as a credit card touring travel bike after my retirement (49 days and counting!).  It has the 48mm Switchback Hill tires (actual more like 50mm), and is marginally more comfortable and marginally less responsive than the Hilsen.  Both are wonderful bikes.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof.

Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request.

==============================================================================

[Tony DeFilippo]

I haven't ridden either back to back, but I have tried the OAC Rambler, a Rawland rSOGN and spent a year or so on a 650B'd skinny 531 tubed Trek, both set up similarly to my current Saluki.  My impression is they aren't all that different.  My impression is the Saluki is a bit more stable/neutral in handling overall and that at least for my purposes the front end geometry easy to forget once you are on the road.  I regularly carry my work clothes in a shopsack in front wald basket and have no problem with handling. Once parked or when moving the bike around the front wheel/basket combo does flop around really easy but I've had that issue on every front loaded bike I've tried unless I mount a spring retainer (VO sells them).

I find the Saluki to respond well to higher effort and it's easy to stay in rhythm once your moving but it isn't as quick off the line as I remember the Rambler, rSOGN or Trek.  Could be more the bags and racks I've got or the upright handlebars.  

I'm still a bit low trail curious just because I enjoy messing around with bikes but I'm sure the Saluki isn't holding me back from pretty much any biking adventure I could imagine.  

[MartyG]

Takes me back. This from the old A.H.H. website - long forgotten...

The Resurrection of A. Homer Hilsen

 

There it was, there it sat.

Bars akimbo, tires flat.

 

Cluster missing, saddle worn.

Dangling hemp-wrap. Dusty. Torn.

 

Rubbed the down-tube, read the name:

A. Homer Hilsen – of Rivendell fame.

 

I knelt to worship and wondered why.

Lost, or stolen? Left to die?

 

Who would leave it? Could I? Could You?

I asked around, nobody knew.

 

I felt linked like a chain to its ultimate fate,

the local bike shop was open ‘till eight…

 

They told me the story of a man dressed in wool.

He lived in the country, his glass always half full.

 

The bike was his passion, his comfort, his dream.

Fittings for Mark’s rack, lugs filled with cream.

 

But no one had seen him, at least for a while.

The man had moved on. My lips cracked a small smile.

 

I asked the police what the policy was.

They showed me the poster: Auction by Fuzz.

 

I showed up quite early, on the day of the deal.

Misty and quiet, the sky painted like steel.

 

I noticed the Hilsen being eyed by a punk,

mixed in with the lawnmowers, car parts and junk.

 

He grabbed a brake lever and gave it a tug,

Spat on a pedal, then moved on with a shrug.

 

The auction moved slowly, through toilets and tools,

Something for everyone: the dealers, the fools.

 

And then it was up there, wheeled up by a cop.

The pads squealed on the front rim. It came to a stop.

The bidding began with the auctioneers’ pitch:

“A handsome blue bike for the not quite so rich!”

 

It was me and the punk, and a man I could see

who was standing alone near a lone Redwood tree.

 

It had to be mine. I just had to win.

To let Homer go home without me was a sin! 

 

The punk shrugged again when three figures were spoke.

Fished through his pockets, confirmed he was broke.

 

I looked near the tree, heard the faint ping of a bell,

The auctioneer paused, raised the gavel. It fell.

 

“It’s mine! Can’t believe it!” My grin ear to ear.

I cashed out in seconds, lost a fight with a tear.

 

I wheeled Hilsen homeward and vowed to be kinder.

Put him up on my work stand and loosened the binder.

 

I thought about fate, how I won, how I got’m.

Flipped the frame in the stand to examine the bottom.

 

As soon as the upside was more downside than most,

A small rolled up paper fluttered out from the post:

 

“I’m happy you own me, the pleasure’s all mine.

That punk would’ve stripped me and sold me for wine.”

 

“Now we can share them, those days on the road.

Losing all count of the friendships we sowed.”

 

“You see, I’m attracted to people like you;

People who dream of a journey or two.”      

          A.H.H.

 

I’m sure when I’m older, my legs tired of turning,

I’ll think of this day; of the joy and the yearning.

 

I’ll pass it along to a like-minded good soul;

dusty and weathered, but ready to roll.

 

The bike will live on, with new stories to tell;

new owner, new road, and the faint ping of a bell.

[William R.]

That's awesome. I don't recall seeing that before. Get one if you can!

Bill in Westchester, NY

[Liesl]

thank heavens for cyclofiend's riv pages!

homer introduced in 2006 as a big frame/700 wheel
Saluki rolled into the homer line in 2008

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I have a Homer, Ram (650b for brevets) and a Roadeo, so I am leaning to the lively side of Riv bikes. I weigh 150 and have a 54 cm 650b Homer. I have ridden it on a 600k brevet with PariMoto tires and it did great.  After I converted my Ram to 650b (with 42 mm Hetres), I converted the Homer to my deluxe commuter with rear rack etc. I find the Homer rides with some spring and flex when I load it up with about 20 lbs of groceries/commute bags, so I suppose if you weigh 170, the Homer could be ideal (although the weight distribution would be different than with rear bags).

Much like the Sam, I think the Homer fits between the brevet/club bike and the credit card tourer.  A wonderful bike no doubt!!

Toshi

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 3:04 PM, William R. <wrom...@optonline.net> wrote:

That's awesome. I don't recall seeing that before. Get one if you can!

Bill in Westchester, NY

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Daniel Jackson]

Thank you all for your considered ideas on this bike - its great to hear more about it. 

I'm considering it among the Riv lineup as a potential dirt road randonneuring/pass hunting bike. I live and ride at the top of VT in the Northeast Kingdom - if you look at a map, there aren't really any major roads. Its a very rural area, I'm sure there aren't any other Riv bikes, and every ride I do is 95% dirt road. I want something that works well with a front load (15 lbs. or so) and has responsive, flexible tubing. I'm long and lean at 6' 3", 175 lbs. 

I'm attracted to the Homer because it seems like it might be the bike in Riv's lineup that has the lightest tubing for a bike with good tire clearances ( at least 38 is mandatory for the roads I ride) and center pulls.

Any other ideas? If I want a Riv, is this the bike for me? 

With a PBH of 90, should I go for the 61 or the 63?

Thanks folks. Always wonderful having the list's input.    

[ted]

I have a 56 Homer I bought through this list. As others have said the AHH is a really lovely bike. Whether or not its what you are looking for may depend on what you mean when you say "springy" or "responsive flexible tubing". If you are wanting the flex of a standard tube diameter thin wall frame that some associate with "planing", then the Homer may not be for you. 

The AHH tubing is somewhat lighter than the Hillborne or Atlantis. I think mine weighs about 7lbs (frame, fork, headset and binder bolt), which I believe is about 1.5 lbs more than a Rodeo. Like other Riv's the tubes are "oversized". I think my bike is quite lively and very responsive, but I don't think the folks who wax on about planing and thin walled standard sized tubes would favor the AHH. 

I used to ride a late 70's Nobilette built frame with then standard sized 531 tubes (still have it just don't ride it much). When jumping or climbing hard I believe I felt the frame flexing. I didn't really feel one way or the other about that. I really liked that bike.

My next frame was an ~1980 Gios that had a shorter wheelbase and short beefy stays. I was struck by how direct and immediate the connection between the pedals and the contact patch of the rear tire was, and I really liked that. The handling was also very precise and very responsive, which was kinda great (particularly riding crits and such). I immediately much preferred the Gios for the riding I was doing at the time, though it was kinda unforgiving and perhaps not so great (still have that bike too). 

When I got my Homer the first real ride I took had me thinking of Will Smith in 4th of July yelling "I have got to get me one of these". It was (and still is) comfy. It's handling was (and still is) responsive and precise without seeming the least bit twitchy, and the sense of immediate and direct connection between pushing on the pedals and the bike jumping foreword was (and still is) every bit as strong and solid as the Gios. Since I changed tires from 32s to 42s the handling seems a bit more stable or slightly less quick but I still like it a lot. The next tires I buy for it will probably be 38s.

I frequently ride with a group in which my AHH is the only non MCFRB. Sometimes one of the guys will say its amazing what I can do on that bike. I tell them the bike is not a handicap, though my fat belly is. I also ride it wherever I want. Paved roads, fire roads, wide trails, single track. The MCFRB guys I ride with seem unwilling to venture off the pavement on those bikes. Once when I said I had ridden a route they were saying you couldn't do on a road bike the response was "yea but that bike goes anywhere".

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:40 AM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:

Many other Rivs get a lot of press here, but I really haven't heard much on the Homer. Curious about the ride of this bike - it's liveliness as compared to an Atlantis or Hillborne. Is its tubing relatively lighter? Is it a softer feel? Is it more beautiful?

Considering one as my all round dirt road bike and looking for something springy with centerpulls and clearance for 38s with fenders.  

[Eunice Chang]

I sort-of inherited a 61 cm Homer that I named Thumper Buttercup.

My only problem with it was that it rode so well and beautifully that it practically sang, and got me to buy another Rivendell, a QB. So that's my warning about Rivs, it's a slippery slope and then it's like trying to pick your favorite child when you go to your bike stable. First world problems, I know.

But seriously, it's a great all-rounder - I've used it for short distance, long distance, errands with heavy loads, being a lousy ride leader (I kind of left my followers behind). It's my most comfortable bike in the stable. And it grows on you- and I suspect like most of us who have AHH, it becomes a part of us.

And it's very, very photogenic. Here's proof:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ejchang/albums/72157644207754985

E. 

[Tony DeFilippo]

90pbh as well and the 60cm Saluki fits me like a glove. As does the 56cm Bombadil with its slopping top tube...

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/xeQPi8CKt_A/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Chris Lampe 2]

My only experience with Rivendell bikes is via internet photos and owner's reports but the A. Homer Hilsen was the bike that really fired my enthusiasm for RBW.  I then discovered that RBW's philosophy wasn't far from what I had been doing for the past 12 or so years and became a dedicated fan.  A series of e-mail conversations with Grant educated me on the Rivs that would work best for me and now, the 56cm Atlantis is my idea of the ideal bike and if I ever buy a Riv, it will be an Atlantis and if I ever have a custom frameset built, it will be based on the Atlantis.  But it all started with A.H.H. and it's still the quintessential Rivendell for me and the most beautiful.  

[Brian Campbell]

I have a 61cm AHH. My PBH is 87. I just did my first brevet on it back in October. 12 hrs in the saddle and no issues regarding fit or comfort, I am running 38mm Barlow Pass EL tires w/ 50mm VO fenders, generator hub, lights etc.

All in, (saddle, pedals, empty water bottles and cages, minus the repair kit) the bike weighs in at just over 26lbs. It is light enough to feel like it is ready to go when needed and versatile enough that it can be configured to do most any type of riding, short of straight up racing or extreme touring. My AHH replaced a collection of 9 other similar road bikes. I do not miss one of the bikes sold to buy the Riv. My only suggestion is to buy one.

[Surlyprof]

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/88710677759/the-sam-in-many-ways-a-few-ways-is-the-best

I thought Grant's take on the Hillborne compared to the A.H.H was interesting.  One of the things I read over and over before buying my Hillborne.  That said, my dream would be to own an A.H.H. with Barlow Pass ELs or Bon Jovi ELs (has anyone ridden those?) and a Bombadil on something fat and knobby.  For now (and maybe always)... I'm very happy with Sam and a couple of wheelsets (although that Appaloosa is plaguing my thoughts as of late).

John

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:40 AM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:

[David Stein]

I remember seeing that blog post and that has really stuck out in my mind about Grant saying the Sam is meant to ride like the Homer and he can’t tell which bike he is on when riding. Has anyone else had that experience between the two? I had a Sam briefly and like the way it rode ok but I actually thought it was too similar to my Hunqapillar (when setup as a road bike with compass tires) so I sold it and just do two wheelsets on the Hunq. 

[blakcloud]

If I had to do it all again I would have bought the bike that I had my heart set on and that was the AHH. I purchased the Sam because I got a deal on it, demo model and it was the last 52 cm before they switched over to the new sizes.

As much as I like the Sam, the sloping top tube is something that I don't find pleasing to look at. When I ride the bike the sloping top tube becomes irrelevant.

I love the utility of bicycles but I also see bicycles as works of art and so it has to be pleasing to my eye. In this regard, the Sam just doesn't work for me but the AHH does.

For the last year I have been unable to ride a bike due to a medical condition but if I am ever able to ride again, the I will buy a AHH.

[ted]

John,

I think that Appaloosa would be a great Bombadil stand in to complement your Hillborne as AHH stand in.

The Appaloosa may even fit fatter tires than the first generation Bombadil.

So Sam and Joe v.s. Homer and Bombadil could be all the function at a much lower cost. Why just dream of the one when you could be riding the other?

If you can spare the dollars perhaps you should stop that Appaloosa from plaguing your thoughts by pre-ordering.

[ted]

regarding sloping top tubes,

Doesn't anybody else like to rest their backside against the top tube while the group is chatting before or after a ride?

Before the carbon craze it seemed like this was a common thing, you set the bike cross wise behind you, tip it a bit, and lean your but back against the top tube as sort of a lean to stool. Very relaxing for lazy people like me who can't be bothered to stand up.

But it doesn't work for me with sloping top tubes. The aesthetics don't bother me, but I do miss that stool sometimes so I prefer the horizontal (or 1 to 2 degree) top tubes to the ~6 degree slope.

Just another little detail that makes me like the AHH a bit more than the Hillborne.

[Kainalu]

Maybe I'm asymmetrical, but my sloping top tube is very comfortable as a seat for the sideways chat and beyond. I sit on my rear brake cable under tension for a more stable footing/tiring.
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[Surlyprof]

The thing that has always drawn me to the Bombadil is the 650b wheelset.  For road riding, I love 700c but when riding in the dirt, I've found 700c/29 to be a bit clumsy and 26 to be a little on the small side.  650b in the dirt just strikes me as the perfect middle ground.  Both the Hunq and Appaloosa use 700c in my size (85pbh).  I know this points me in the direction of a 52 Clem (which I thought was great) but the Bombadil is just so darn beautiful!

As for sloping top tubes, I never thought of the tt as a temporary stool.  I agree about the aesthetics but I was introduced to a sloping tt on a 59 Bianchi Veloce and fell in love with the long stable head tube, higher bars and standover clearance.  It would have been a fun bike to hang onto if it wasn't for the tire width limitations (25 was even getting tight).  The sloping tt on the Hillborne works great and puts everything where I want it and nothing where I don't.  Even then, the aesthetics of the A.H.H. with only a 2 degree slope does look better to me and any test rides I've taken on one have been amazing.

John

[ted]

John,

I concur, 650b seems just the right size. Particularly for the size bikes I ride, which luckily for me is a touch smaller than you. As I am lucky enough to have a 1st generation Bombadil, I'm not looking at a Joe Appaloosa as a Bombadil stand in. But if I were, my ~83 pbh would probably put me on a 51 which of course is 650b. Too bad for you that you are too tall.

I was just up at RBW WHQ and the Appaloosa protovello and a bunch of Clems were in the "showroom". Running up there to do some test riding and in person size assessing would probably be good fun (you do live just ~30min south don't you).

ted

[Christopher Murray]

When the Homer was new it seemed it was all anyone talked about- especially Grant. There was a separate website, hats, shirts, coin purses, and others. I think now the Homer isn't new and it isn't old so has become the forgotten middle child. It is a beautiful bike in person. I think the blue is about perfect. I think you'd have to look high and low to find someone to say something negative about the Homer.

So get into the internet way back machine and dig up some old readers and I think you will find more than enough on the Homer. I love the bike but admit to feeling a tad happy we have moved on to other topics.

Cheers!
Chris

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I have one of the early Homers, built by Toyo.  It's a 59.  I ride it everywhere.

Back a while ago, Brian Eno was interviewed and spoke his ideal band.  He cited the melodic sense and attention to timbre of Kraftwerk, mated to the rhythm section of Parliament/Funkadelic.  Arguably, he got close during the "Stop Making Sense/Remain In Light" period of Talking Heads.  

That idea has always been how the Hilsen feels to me.  

Perhaps the more appropriate analogy would be a Ferrari with Hummer suspension.  When GP was riding the East Bay Hills on the bike which was not named Honus Wagner - https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeromehaines/189470883/in/album-72157594198990353/ - 32 mm on a "road" tire was pretty honkin' big. (...and the 650B was fairly fringe, and GP had recently self-stitched a 603 together to experiment).  

At the time, I was doing CX races, and really wanted to see about obtaining a Legolas.  I wanted some lever-shiftable gears as an alternative to the Quickbeamm which I was riding everywhere and enjoying much, much more than my multi-geared, soft-nosed mtb. When I visited the RBWHQ&L, Grant  pushed me out on this new bike, on tires which he warned me were "too small" (Rolly Polly 28's) and I came back a believer.  Since I'd been riding my CX-specific bike on mixed-terrain rides,  I had something to compare it to.  The Hilsen just outclassed that bike, handled better and gave me a much more comfortable ride. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/sets/72157602016418451/

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html

I rode, raced (CX), centuried and brevet-ed with the Homer, and do not think anything of riding it from A to B with strong vectors toward any terrain that interests me.  I'm kinda partial to JB Greens.  Though I've run knibblies on it as well.  But, I like the ride with the JB's, and the aesthetic of running them on trails, rocks and whatever. 

As far as the Sam, I do recall when Grant was tweaking that design.  My recollection is that he viewed it a notch closer to Atlantis than the Hilsen, mostly because they had the Roadeo/San Marcos, which a notch the other way.  Like many things, the design itself suggests refinements, and he's always thinking about how to make something more of whatever it is. 

As with most of Grant's designs, the tuning, the tweaking and the refinements are all for you to do.  What you'll find is that whatever idea you might have, you can probably do it with the Hilsen.

- Jim / cyclofiend.com

https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=93409214%40N00&sort=date-taken-desc&text=hilsen&view_all=1

[John Hawrylak]

What is the diameter and wall thickness of the main tubes?  Could not find it on Cyclofiends's website or Rivendell

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ