How are albatross and albastache bars for long distance riding?

[Daniel D.]

Day Dreaming about how I would build up a sam.  Thinking about why I want the sam realized it would be for fun long rides.  If I'm running errands I'd use my cheaper bikes.  Loaded touring I have a bike for that.  Are drop bars a safer bet for long distance riding?   Don't have much experience with upright bars.  Seems like the upright bars limit the options for hand position.  

[Mike Williams]

Daniel, bars are personal,  everyone has there preferences and i cant speak for Albastaches,   But I can for Albatross and for me,  they are just about the perfect mixed surface touring bar,  good for 100 mile days without even thinking about it.Ive tried drops,  never could get comfy.   This is why I like Albas,  they let you sit high and really see around you a bit more.   As for hand positions theres a solid 3 or 4 for me,  and also I set the bars at saddle height or a little higher and this takes pressure off hands/ wrists and Im not really wanting to move my hands around all the time.   I say give them a shot! you might love them or decide theyre not really your thing.  Gooood luck,   -Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 15, 2015, at 11:12 AM, Daniel D. <dddo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Day Dreaming about how I would build up a sam.  Thinking about why I want the sam realized it would be for fun long rides.  If I'm running errands I'd use my cheaper bikes.  Loaded touring I have a bike for that.  Are drop bars a safer bet for long distance riding?   Don't have much experience with upright bars.  Seems like the upright bars limit the options for hand position.  

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[Ron Mc]

Pressure (eliminating it) is the entire key to riding distance. . When we were young, we didn't lean on the bars, we pulled on them.  Even now, we should be supporting ourselves with our core muscles, not our hands and shoulders.  I've ridden over 100 mi for the week - longest stint was 38 mi - all on my upright.  .Long rides are where you figure out those slight position tweaks that will solve the circulation pinches (numbness) that your adjustments are very close to dialing out.  Not this week, but a few weeks ago the adjustment I was making was rotating the bar ends up, then adjusting the overall height back down on the stem.  Last adjustments were the opposite, as I'm slowly zeroing in on perfect wrist angles.  

The way my upright is set up, I have two hand positions.  The first is the equivalent of hooks, the second is slightly wider on the grips.  

On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 12:22:33 AM UTC-5, Michael Williams wrote:

.... and this takes pressure off hands/ wrists and Im not really wanting to move my hands around all the time.  

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/19/2015 07:04 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
> Pressure (eliminating it) is the entire key to riding distance. . When
> we were young, we didn't lean on the bars, we pulled on them. Even
> now, we should be supporting ourselves with our core muscles, not our
> hands and shoulders. I've ridden over 100 mi for the week - longest
> stint was 38 mi - all on my upright. .Long rides are where you figure
> out those slight position tweaks that will solve the circulation
> pinches (numbness) that your adjustments are very close to dialing out.

When you say "long rides," what sort of distance do you have in mind?
Was that 38 mile ride a long ride?

[Ron Mc]

Steve, I've ridden 55 and 65 mi on this bike this year, but a 38 mi ride is enough to find those little annoying circulation pinches.  

Long is relative.  Especially on an upright, add a good headwind (18-22 kt earlier this week) and 26 mi is a long ride.  

[Ron Mc]

(challenging others on the forum is not cool)

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/19/2015 07:29 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
> Steve, I've ridden 55 and 65 mi on this bike this year, but a 38 mi
> ride is enough to find those little annoying circulation pinches.
> Long is relative. Especially on an upright, add a good headwind
> (18-22 kt earlier this week) and 26 mi is a long ride.

I totally agree with that. It's all about your frame of reference. This
year, the randonneuring lists were all about getting ready for
Paris-Brest-Paris, and 1200 km randonnees; and fine tuning position
based on a 40 mile ride won't necessarily provide answers that will hold
up at that kind of distance - or, in my experience, even to the 80 - 100
mile range, never mind brevet distances.

Not that I'm suggesting I could do centuries on an upright, regardless
of the wind. I can't. For me, uprights are strictly short-range.

[Steve Palincsar]

That's not a challenge, it's a request for information, to understand your frame of reference.  

[Ron Mc]

fair enough - I tweaked my knee on the 26-mi ride earlier this week. climbing hard and steady against that headwind.  So I started out the 38-mi ride with a tweaked knee.  I did eat a motrin at my water stops, but made the ride without knee pain and, particularly nice, no saddle, shoulder or wrist numbness.  

[Ron Mc]

ps - both the 26 and 38 were wet rides with TS Bill fallout, and wet sandy pavement always loads you down

[Garth]

       Bars are bars , how you choose to use them is infinite :)   So is the frame , infinite ways to set one up .   So no one can fully answer your question but you , know thyself !  

       Think about pictures of Sam frames or Alba bars .  It seems most set them up all similar ways on the surface, but really no 2 are even close to alike . Weight distribution is something that rarely if ever gets talked about .  How you feel centered in the bike. It revolves around your core , if you take your hands off the bars briefly does it feel balanced front-to-rear ?  When it's "right" your arms and hands are extensions more for guidance, not support.  You can't really even put it into words, and you can't tell anyone what is good for them , you can only make suggestions if they ask for input because something doesn't feel right to them .

     Just because a bar is mislabeled as "upright" does not mean that is it's limitation.  You can use mtb or reverse brake levers. Many different shifters . Different angles, tapes , etc.  Set the high or low, near or far .  Same with a given frame .  Whatever works for you :) 

[Matthew J]

My tour bike has Albatross bars.  Set up with top of the stem slightly above the saddle and the bars angled slightly down.  This bike uses fore and aft low rider racks.  Other than my corpse and a small saddle bag to store my wallet, snack, and a map, no non-bike weight above the top of the rim.  

Longest tour I've done with this set up is 10 days, average 70 miles per day.  Experienced no wrist pain or muscle strain.  My right shoulder sometimes got a little sore, but this also happens on longer rides on my drops equipped road bike.  

[Steven Sweedler]

Matthew, any pics of your bike loaded up, epecially the rear low rider. Thanks, Steve

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Mark Reimer]

I found the Albatross bars on my Atlantis not really ideal for long distance for a few reasons:

- When riding at a casual pace, they are supremely comfortable. Very 'chill' one could say. I had them setup about 1cm above my saddle height. I had two good hand position options, and one more forward but less comfortable option.

- The very upright position placed all my weight on the saddle, in a very specific way. When I use drops, even when they are higher up, I find that leaning forward (not bending down, leaning forward. It's different!) gives me a few different ways to position my body on the saddle, which allows me to ride comfortably for over 200km at a time. With the abla's I had difficulty doing that and as a result would get a sore butt after a while. 

- The WIND! Not sure where you live, but where I am from everything is quite exposed. Riding with the alba's turns your body into a wall basically. There is no hiding from the wind, no drops to drop into to minimize the drag. Regardless if you don't care about going quickly, it's a real drag to fight the wind tooth and nail all day while you're in a very upright position (see what I did there..?)

- bar interference - when riding trails, I found the fact that the bars sweep back so far, they would hit my legs when trying to make tight turns. For that reason they are never an option when trail riding anything other than smooth flowy stuff. I had a few times when I couldn't make a corner because the bars were in the way.

Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE these bars! They are my go-to winter bar because they work very well with mitts. They are very stable on snow as well. For booting around town, they'd be the best bar ever. For rides around 100km where you don't give a hoot about how long it takes you, fantastic bar! But if I was on an extended tour where I wanted to hit a particular distance each day, and there was some exposure to the wind, I would be hesitant to use 'em. Just my two cents!

On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 8:27:34 AM UTC-5, Steven Sweedler wrote:

Matthew, any pics of your bike loaded up, epecially the rear low rider. Thanks, Steve

On Friday, June 19, 2015, Matthew J <matth...@gmail.com> wrote:

My tour bike has Albatross bars.  Set up with top of the stem slightly above the saddle and the bars angled slightly down.  This bike uses fore and aft low rider racks.  Other than my corpse and a small saddle bag to store my wallet, snack, and a map, no non-bike weight above the top of the rim.  

Longest tour I've done with this set up is 10 days, average 70 miles per day.  Experienced no wrist pain or muscle strain.  My right shoulder sometimes got a little sore, but this also happens on longer rides on my drops equipped road bike.  

On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 11:41:00 PM UTC-5, Daniel D. wrote:

Day Dreaming about how I would build up a sam.  Thinking about why I want the sam realized it would be for fun long rides.  If I'm running errands I'd use my cheaper bikes.  Loaded touring I have a bike for that.  Are drop bars a safer bet for long distance riding?   Don't have much experience with upright bars.  Seems like the upright bars limit the options for hand position.  

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[Kieran J]

These are basically all the reasons why I think the Albastache is superior to the Albatross as a drop-bar alternative. It is somewhere in between Albas and drops and - in my opinion - combines the advantages of both.

KJ

[Matthew J]

> any pics of your bike loaded up, epecially the rear low rider.

I fear I am the un-photographer and have not yet photographed the bike on the move.  Here are pictures right after the build.  I load the bags backward - Brooks Land's End up front, Smaller Ortlieb panniers on the back with the top hanging from the middle bar.

The Watson Ti bar looked cool, but was not my cup of tea at all.  I swapped for Albas after the first ride. 

[Ron Mc]

I agree with everything Mark posted, and also agree with Kieran that the 'stache should be a more versatile bar, because of a wider range of hand positions.  However, what I have found is those different hand positions don't change my back position - they just spread my arms around.  I have the older moustache bar on my utility bike, which I call semi-upright (I've ridden the bike 40 mi with a 2500' climb).  Not just the weight of the bike, but I find that I can go farther either on my drop bar bike or my fully upright bike.  It's more about back positions than hand positions, in fact, the moustache cockpit is my benchmark and I used it to take measurements setting up both of my other bikes.  But I find I have greater range of back positions on either the upright or drops than I do on the moustache.  The wind?  Not a wall, but a parachute.  

[Ron Mc]

wow Matthew, beautiful ride and great work

[Ginz]

I've done many 45 mile rides with the Albatross and Bullmoose and I rarely ride much further than that in one day.

I do not have a bike with drop bars.  I gave up on them years ago.  I'm 5'4".  My arms and torso are short, so the distance between the tops and the hoods is too great --- if one position is good, the other is way too close or way too far.  Even though I'm flexible, I could never be comfortable in the drops for more than two minutes --- my diaphragm gets squeezed by my thighs.  The hoods make my thumb joins sore. My hands are proportionally small so trying to brake from the hoods (where I would ride 90% of the time) was difficult, even with those Soma short reach brake levers.    When I see petite women with torsos and hands smaller than mine riding 700c bikes with drop bars, I wonder why they feel pressured to stick with drops.  Maybe they like the drops... I dunno...

What I'm trying to say is that unless you like drops and the various positions work for you, I wouldn't assume that Albatross bars are long distance poison.  In my case, they are the only bar that works.

Eric

  

[Matthew J]

> wow Matthew, beautiful ride and great work

Thank you.  There is (sort of) an RBWOB connection.  Eric used late '80s Ibis geometry as his starting point.  Our host Jim appears to be a fan! 

[Ron Mc]

The one thing moustache bar gives you over hoods is tremendous brake leverage, but you have that with albas, also 

[Matthew J]

I've heard a lot of good about the Albastache bars.  Think I will have to give them a try.

[drew]

I'm currently on day 3 of my first tour with albas. I did a short tour with drops and was very uncomfortable, so I switched to upright bars and the conversion felt great. To mark's point, the great feeling is really limited to casual riding. I'm finding that out. I can't find a position I like for long steep climbs, which is adding many hand position shifts and wiggling around to an already tough situation. The "on the curves" position, for me, is barely workable, since those curves angle down. 5 more days and I'm already thinking about an albastache swap when I get home

[EGNolan]

I haven't ridden the albastache, but love Alba's for commuting/around town riding. I honestly prefer the Bosco's for longer rides as they give the upright ride, but also multiple hand positions that are truly valid.

Best,

Eric

On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 11:11:52 AM UTC-4, drew wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/19/2015 11:11 AM, drew wrote:
> I'm currently on day 3 of my first tour with albas. I did a short tour with drops and was very uncomfortable, so I switched to upright bars and the conversion felt great. To mark's point, the great feeling is really limited to casual riding. I'm finding that out. I can't find a position I like for long steep climbs, which is adding many hand position shifts and wiggling around to an already tough situation. The "on the curves" position, for me, is barely workable, since those curves angle down. 5 more days and I'm already thinking about an albastache swap when I get home
>

Is it worth pointing out that drop bars, even more so than upright bars,
come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes, and that the details of
setup matter a great deal?

[Mark Reimer]

+1 

Personally, the older style drops where the bars drop down before you hit the hoods are totally not compatible with my hands. Think 70s and 80s road bikes. Modern drops where you have a nearly horizontal flat section right into the hoods, and then the bars drop, are fantastic for me. But the Noodle remains my all time favourite. Huge flat ramps, and the gentle bend just works for me. 

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[Matthew J]

> Is it worth pointing out that drop bars, even more so than upright bars, 
> come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes, and that the details of 
> setup matter a great deal? 

I've tried a lot of bars.  And, as I always carry at least my Park Y allen wrench with me, am not shy about readjusting to find the best fit for me.

After many years and many miles I have found that Albas are a great fit on my touring bike, Jitensha flat bars for commuting, and Nitto M176 for no to lightly loaded road riding.

Certainly I am happy enough with my configuration to suggest others give it a try.  No skin off my teeth if someone goes a different direction.

[franklyn]

I have ventured into non-drop bars--moustache, albatross, Sparrow, Jitensha bars, I find using non-drop bars keeps me in one back position and compresses my lower back. This is not an issue for short distance, but I really need to stretch my back out more (think downward facing dog). My wife, who rides as much as I do, is of the same opinion (after commuting on a 89 Trek 850 with Jitensha bar, she goes back to riding her bell-lap equipped 82 Trek 720 and said that it was much more comfortable). So all my bikes have drop bars, even my porteur that has a very large porteur rack and a large porteur bag (the Swift Industries Polaris). The fours different bars on my bikes are Nitto Randonneur (Jitensha version), Nitto Dirt Drop, Nitto Noodle (46cm), and Velo Orange Course bars.

Even for short distances I prefer them over non-drop bars.

Franklyn

Berkeley, CA

[Matthew Snyder]

I did a ~1200 mile tour with Albatross bars, set up just above saddle height.  I was riding ~80 miles a day and felt extremely comfortable. I particularly enjoyed the feeling of touring while riding upright -- looking around felt much more natural. I found myself less "fidgety" than I typically am on drops during >100 mile rides, where I change hand positions frequently as I start to get tired.  I used three hand positions on the Albas, and I typically stayed in each position for longer periods of time.  This was a relatively flat tour, though, and I might have felt differently if there had been a lot of climbing and descending involved.

Matthew Snyder

Seattle WA

[Tim Gavin]

I rode the entire RAGBRAI (~450 miles over 7 days) last year on moustache bars in a Nitto Dirt Drop 10 stem and bar-end Silver shifters.

My experience with moustache bars parallels the experience of Albatross/Albastache/Moustache users here.

I found the moustache bars to be excellent town and casual bars, but not great for faster riding or longer distances. 

The rearward, parallel extensions made a very comfortable place to ride upright or semi-upright.  Unfortunately, I didn't find either of the forward positions (inside the curves, or out on the brake hoods) to be very comfortable.  I find the forward positions to be too far forward, leaving my arms out like superman and my body core unsupported.

On the moustache bars, I found myself rotating between the three positions but unable to comfortably settle on one.  

I switched my Riv back to drops (Nitto B135 Randonneur) after liking them so much on my drop-bar-converted-KOM.

http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/Tim_Gavin/media/Rivendell/IMG_00411_zpscyqwe3pe.jpg.html

I currently have them close to saddle height in an 80 cm Nitto Technomic stem (Silver bar-ends again, after trying out old Campy Ergos and finding their triple shifting wanting. Nothing beats the Silver bar-ends for triple shifting).  

I find myself riding in the drops about 75% of the time.  My body core is supported, my posture is a mid-forward lean.  I can still ride on the bar centers or corners for casual upright riding, and the flats and lever hoods are comfortable as well.

I got frustrated with the moustache bars on rides like RAGBRAI because I felt like I couldn't keep up a faster pace on the moustache bars.  This made the long days on the road longer.  I average a ~2 mph faster pace with the drop bars compared to the moustache bars.

-Tim Gavin

Cedar Rapids, IA

P.S. If anyone is riding RAGBRAI this year and wants to meet up and/or ride some gravel on day 6, let me know.  I'm riding days 5, 6, and 7 this year.  We did the whole week last year, and I won't repeat that again unless I have a team and/or houses to stay in along the way.

[Ron Mc]

What should be obvious is that virtually  everyone posting on this thread has different experiences, and that is the only consensus.   I have no use for noodles, and like Cinelli 64 as my favorite drops.  

There are two post adjacent posts where one says alba is more comfortable than drop on long distance and the next says the opposite.  

In the end, you're going to have to dial it in and figure out what works for you - but that's the way this always works.  

On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 2:56:37 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:

...

My experience with moustache bars parallels the experience of Albatross/Albastache/Moustache users here.

...

[Clayton.sf]

Best "distance upright bar" for me is the bosco. You can get aero on them or upright the range is huge.

Personally I still like drops better for long spirited rides (200K plus), but have no issue riding a century with upright bars. 

The other thing to consider is that bars don't exist in a vacuum. Distance from saddle, saddle to bar drop, saddle set back, frame geometry, all play a huge role in how a bar feels and fits.. 

A long toptube and long chainstays are nice with bosco bars as it  won't feel like the bar is in your lap and you will still have weight distributed more "between the wheels" as you would on a short chainstay bike with a short top tube.

In additon, what is comfortable for 80 miles can be very different at 200 miles. I have no problem riding in carhartt shorts and cotton boxers for 50 miles or so, but would not think of doing a 300K brevet without "real" bike shorts and chamois cream.

The only way to figure it out for yourself though is to go further than is comfortable.

Also, make sure to make your changes and then ride them for a while. Some things may not feel right immediately but once you spend some time with it that can change. If you constantly fiddle with the setup you never get to perfect because your body takes a little to adapt. When I first got my Jones bike I loved it but hated the Jones bars and it was hard for me to ride them without constantly wheely-ing the bike when climbing. Took a few rides and Jeff Jones telling me to stick with it before it clicked. Now I think the bars are great, but they were not great right away.

Clayton Scott

SF, CA 

[hsmitham]

Read all the posts and agree with Garth. There are just so many variables. Here are my experiences.

On my 58cm Hilsen in 2013 I toured from SF to Paso with noddle bars and found it adequate, they really made it difficult on a slow loaded climb as it was difficult to keep the load under control, and I found I couldn't remain in the drops for long as back fatigue set in. Even so I was reluctant to go with an upright bar. I eased my way in with the Albastache bars on both my Hilsen and Atlantis. On the Hilsen I had a 9cm tallux stem but I felt slightly stretched out, I have some low back disk bulging (here is the first example of differentiation between people) so being able to sit fully upright is a benefit. So recently, on the HIlsen I switched to a 8cm dirt drop which obviously brought the bars up and back. That change seemed to be the sweet spot for now. I say for now because we are all in flux, so what feels good now may be different in the future.The Hilsen is now relegated to day rides between 15 & 30 miles, I hope to increase my miles but that's my reality these days.

My 56cm Atlantis had the Albastache bars coupled with a 12cm tallux stem and I did lot's of day rambles and overnights, no long tours, like the Hilsen I felt stretched out and on a long ride I had hand & wrist discomfort. Recently, as some of you may already know I traded out the 12cm for the 9cm (from the Hilsen) then  finally went to a 10cm tallux stem and believe, I'm almost certain I found the sweet spot. The bar clamp is just slightly above my saddle height with the bar ends angled down. I find I have three primary hand positions.

1. To the rear at the grips.

2. just fore of the brake clamp sometimes over the brake clamps.

3. In the so called hooks. 

All three give me great riding postures. The hooks I'm angled forward to cut into the wind, and the two rear positions give my back varying degrees of relief. In the full upright position I'm not gonna be pushing for speed, but I'm not real slow just a more leisurely attitude. In the hooks I feel more aggressive and can lean in for more speed.

Between the two different setups I have to say they're both entirely different! I love them both for completely different reasons. The Hilsen is light & nimble running with next to no load other than me, the Grand Bois Hetres are light, supple and quick adding to the fleet feeling and the Albastache bars have many of the positive attributes of drop bars, keeping the Hilsen more racerly 

The Atlantis with all the rack add on's feels like a 4x4 truck, solid, with great visibility and a sure footed vibe running the Schwalbe Thunder Burt's. By no means is the Atlantis a slug, I still feel the frame coupled with the TB's and the Alba' give back a supple comfortable ride without compromising too much on forward momentum.

So which one is the most comfortable? I have to say the Atlantis. Have I done rando miles? No. Have I put them to the test on a long tour? No. But based on my previous experiences I feel pretty confidant that they'll be great. I'm going on tour in July and will have more feedback on the Albatross bars and their merits or demerits.

In regards to Mark's points. Yes the bar ends can and do get in the way! Especially on tight turning. I've ridden my Atlantis on plenty of single track, tight vegetation and hairpin turns and never felt unduly hindered. There have been a handful of times when my knee knocked into the right shifter and gave me an undesired shift but never too bad. And on tight turns in awkward positions it probably made more sense to dismount or take it easy. IMO my Atlantis  weighs 30+ lbs I'm just not gonna be going fast anywhere. It's all about making a conscious prioritized compromise. What do you want to achieve in relation to your riding habits and experience. Funny how with bikes at least IME it takes time, money and patience. Hope some of this helps and good luck in your discovery process.

Tail Winds,

~Hugh with a head cold here typing and wishing he was going on the swift solstice camp out tomorrow.

  Los Angeles, CA 

[Jeremy Till]

I've had very good experiences over the past couple of years riding long distances (up to about 90 miles/day, and a week long, ~500 mile tour with plenty of climbing) with upright bars, mostly 58cm Boscos. I totally agree with Ron and Clayton: just like with drop bars, set up matters, and every body is different with regards to things like core strength, flexibility, limb and torso dimensions, etc.  Definitely, for me, long top tubes and stems seem to help me get upright bars feeling nice and "roomy."  

While I love my Boscos dearly, I've also had a pair of the current standard 55cm CrMo albatrosses that have moved between a couple of different bikes and umpteen different setups and the truth is, they haven't worked as well for me.  I think a lot of this is down to width; the bit of extra width on the Boscos really helps me be in a relaxed yet-secure position.  I was at Riv HQ this past weekend and riding one of their Hunqapillars with Alba's that felt better, and talking to Keven I discovered that in fact had one of the older, slightly wider (56cm) bars on it. I was surprised at the difference it made.  I think the bend was subtly different was well, such that it maintained more if its width closer to the forward curve. 

In terms of climbing, I actually feel like I climb better with Boscos, especially long climbs, since the position doesn't put as much strain on my lower back and hip areas.  My whole body is more relaxed, so more of my energy can be sent to power my legs.  If i do need more leverage or to shift my weight forward for a steep bit, I can grab the boscos on the forward curves. Furthermore, sitting up and looking around while climbing is an awesome way to pass the time while climbing. I've done many rides on upright bars that I had only previously done on drops and have been amazed by how many new things I've noticed: cool trees, interesting houses, little vistas that only emerge momentarily in passing.  I think that's especially nice when you're on tour and passing through new areas.

The headwind thing I think is fair.  Prior to the beginning of this year, I was living in a place where most rides involved a lot of climbing (Berkeley), but now I've moved to a flatter locale (Sacramento) where headwinds are more of a challenge, and I think about it a lot. If you're comparing my position to that of a racy drop bar bike I'm definitely presenting a larger surface area.  However, if you are comparing my real-world Bosco position to a drop bar position I might actually ride, I'm not so sure.  Over the weekend I was riding with a friend of similar height, whose bike was setup very similarly to my last drop bar position, before I sold my "road" bike: contemporary short-and-shallow drop bars setup roughly seat height and with a short stem.  At one point I was riding behind him when he was in the drops and noticed that with my hands on the forward part of the bosco grip area and my elbows only slightly bent, that my head was basically level with his, so overall our cross sectional area couldn't have been that different.  Even if there is a disadvantage to upright bars in terms of wind resistance, it's only a disadvantage in a headwind.  The second you have a tailwind, you're flying!  In general I don't really care about speed that much, although I appreciate being efficient.  I feel like upright bars give me more confidence to ride longer distances with more comfort, so even if there is a speed penalty I think it's worth it overall.  

I do totally get how swept back bars can be bit tricky in tight, low speed turns.  I've developed an instinct to deal with that: when I do have to go around a tight corner and rotate the bars a bunch, I kick out my inside knee, kind of like a moto GP rider, although I'm sure it looks funny since it's only at low speeds.

[Daniel D.]

lol you're my favorite poster on here.  I'm just trying to figure out the best set up to roll the dice on first.  At $90 a pop handlebar+possible stem change, experimentation can get expensive.  I feel the drop bars would be a safer choice for my tastes.  But the sam I test rode and liked had albastaches, but it was a short flat ride.  I don't think there's a drop bar 51cm sam available to test ride.

On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 6:02:08 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:

       Bars are bars , how you choose to use them is infinite :)   So is the frame , infinite ways to set one up .   So no one can fully answer your question but you , know thyself !  

40 miles is the magic number for me.  Below that I could wear or ride many things without complaint. Above is when I start getting picky.

 

  

On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 4:22:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

When you say "long rides," what sort of distance do you have in mind?   
Was that 38 mile ride a long ride? 

 

This matches my thoughts on what the differences might be. For me, seems drops are the safer bet.  While albastaches would be the whimsical go full riv choice.  thanks for the thoughts everyone.

[stonehog]

I personally wish I would have listened to the wisdom of the group when I joined this forum in '08.  I would have saved a lot of time and money... 

I originally had 46cm Noodles on my Hilsen, but found the drops unusable at the time as they felt 'way too low' and the 46cm was wide enough that my forearms hit the tops when I was in the drops - that was weird.  I was also coming from years of flat bar mtb riding, and hadn't ridden in drops since the 80s. I then went down the long slow spiral of "cockpit madness" trying porteur bars (liked, but numbed hands over 50 miles), albatross (weird curve angle for my wrists), moustache (nope - too few positions).  After several years of experimentation, when I started doing longer rides (100, 200km), going to Nitto 115 (plain old drops) I had the revelation that a narrow drop works really well. 

I ended up finally on 42cm Noodles (nirvana), but, on the recent Oregon Outback I tried 44cm Noodles on my Hunqa to get more leverage and, while they kept my hands happy like my narrower noodles, they didn't give me quite the leverage to feel in control on some of the fast gravel descents with a good load in low-riders.  Perhaps 46 or 48 Noodles - yes back to the beginning? I also realize that most of the time, my aero position is putting my hands on the flats close to the stem, bending my elbows, and dropping my body down.  I almost never use the drops, but they are nice when I'm doing a fast descent into the wind on gravel or road.  They also allow me to stretch my back out a bit more.

The following is a summary of some things I've learned:

1. Drops give you the more positions for your back and hand pressure relief, as well as allowing control and aero positions when you are riding into the wind
2. Narrow bars work well with "easier steering bikes" a-la low trail like my Toussaint, or when used with higher trail bikes on the groomed road with light loads
3. Gravel and higher trail requests more leverage (wider bars) for confidence, of which the Albastache is more ideal for me due to the brake position in the front (where hands are when descending fast), and the good wrist angle I get in the curves compared to the Albatross
4. I wasn't super comfortable in drops until started riding longer distances, and improving core strength helped a lot - pilates is good, easy, and doesn't require a gym membership or equipment
5. All this is my opinion only - you may have the opposite experience...

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA

[Deacon Patrick]

Albastache. Distances up to 90+ so far this year and loving it.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Kelly]

I find drop bars very comfortable if you fit them to your body -  right height etc.   If high enough you are able to ride in drops comfortably and use the hoods and front for upright riding as well.    I love them on my AHH.  I have the albatross on my Tour bike Bombadil... I've been riding them for 4 or 5 years .. during loaded touring I don't like riding more than 50 mile days though it does happen regularly .. :)   I have no problem in winds as I have gears... in big head winds I just prop my elbows on the ends .. drop my forearms over the hooks and go on... main riding is in the hooks.   I found the balance between getting them far enough out there to allow the reach I like .. like riding on hoods on drops to be critical for me and a bit to far means the upright ride puts to much pressure on hands.. once again the fit to your body and likes is important in my opinion.   

Note to the albatross has room for large Arkel Handlebar bag like drops for my DSLR camera with zoom.

For me... both bikes are comfortable at my distances 50-85 ish miles and I wouldn't hesitate to take either bike on rides of these distances and confident I would be comfortable.    

But to answer your question... event rides where distances are 60 to 80ish per day I'll take the AHH with drops.  

My opinion only :)

Kelly

[Surlyprof]

Like many on the list, I've had multiple drops, straight bars, Boscos, Mustache, Albatross and Albastache.  Boscos were too high up for me and lacked a range of hand positions.  I'm not a fan of drops finding that I rarely rode in the drop portion.  My Hillborne came with Albatross bars.  I really liked them but found them a little too casual for riding fast-ish.  I found myself riding with my hands on the curves a great deal of my riding time.  As Brian said, it is an ergonomically awkward wrist position twisting your hands toward your thumbs, not your pinkies.  I used to like a pair of mustache bars I owned previously but I wouldn't consider the lower drop much of an upright position.  I finally broke down and purchased an Albastache bar, as well as the stem and brakes that were needed since they are all different from an Albatross cockpit (As you said... not cheap!).  I have been thrilled with the results.  I love the more aggressive riding position for descents, trails and going fast(ish).  The wrist angle is much nicer than the fronts of the Albatross bars.  The bars also extend back farther and wider than my old mustache bars and don't drop as far.  This provides a nice, upright position which is a nice place to relax if my neck gets a little stiff.  Lots of hand positions as well.  Upright, front curves and even the brake hoods provide a lot of places to relieve/distribute hand pressure.  For now, the Albastache is the best bar I've ever ridden and I really love 'em.  I am holding onto my Albatross cockpit for later life (much later, I hope).  When I get old enough to not be able to ride comfortably in a lower position, I may go back.  Until then, it will be my Albastache Sam for me.

John

[Surlyprof]

One more thought... don't just daydream about building up a Sam... DO IT!!!   I didn't get mine until fairly recently and feel like I lost years of joyful riding.  It is, by far, the best bike I've ever owned.  Makes me want to ride it everywhere, all the time.  I love that bike!

Good luck with your build.

[Clayton]

I tried the 'Stache. I found the brake levers, which have to be mounted almost in plane with the bars, did not mesh with my weird wrists. I am one of those weirdo's who's ulna is longer than normal. Carpal tunnel surgeries didn't help. I run drop bars very high, with the plane of the seat about half way between the drops and the tops. Why run drops, if you can't get down in the hooks and stay there, comfortably? I see so many folks refusing to raise their bars due to fashion, "the experts", and outside influences in general. Your back, neck, wrists and smiles will all benefit. 

Clayton

[Daniel D.]

thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone.  Just discovered the riv catalog, good reading in there.  Wish I knew about it before my visit so I could've picked up a print version.