71Hilsen on eBay

[Curtis]

Nice bike for the tall folks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivendell-A-Homer-Hilsen-71cm-randonneur-build-/221299081509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3386740125

Ride Safe,

Curtis

[Jim]

That is a sweet build.  I have to tell you, though, that I ride that frame, and it would be  looooooong way down to those shifters.   I wonder if the seller is having standover issues as well, I have barely enough room over the top tube, but run about double that amount of seat post ( I do have 38mm tires, vs. the 32mm on that bike.

 

Jim in Boulder

[Eric Daume]

I actually think the double top tube looks OK on that big frame.

Eric "but not for me" Daume
Dublin, OH

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[James Warren]

Surely you mean "just OK" as opposed to on all other bikes where the double TT looks great. :-)

- Jim "2TT is now my favorite" Warren

Sent from my iPhone

[hsmitham]

+one on looking great on all bikes. Benefits.  A good hand hold when picking  the bike up rather than grabbing a single tubed version with a frame pump in the way and a conversation starter.

just my .02.

~Hugh

[Christopher Chen]

Second Hugh's comment, except that I'm too short so they just make me envious.

"I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah

[Patrick Moore]

I have to say that I find double tts on any but the largest frames quite frankly, silly. An extra tube just for looks? Or to provide a handle?

Each to his own, but I know I am not alone in my sentiment.

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Christopher Chen <cc...@nougat.org> wrote:

Second Hugh's comment, except that I'm too short so they just make me envious.

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[Hugh Smitham]

Now Patrick who isn't alone in those.

-Hugh

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[Patrick Moore]

Y'know, I didn't have to make that negative remark -- I know may listers like the dtts. But, to justify my remark, as far as it needs to be justified, I feel rather sad that Grant seems to have put style (a weird one, admittedly) over function. Or am I wrong, and does a dtt on a 56 cm frame serve a real function?

Patrick "don't want to be negative, really" Moore

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[Peter Morgano]

I think there are far worse things to be rather sad about, a bit melodramatic isn't it? 

[Patrick Moore]

Not at all. Of course there are far worse things to be sad about, but if that were our only guiding principle for emotion we'd be unemotional about much that we, in fact, invest emotion in -- double top tubes, pro as well as con, for that matter -- and this list would not exist.

I admired Rivendell from the beginning for bucking style trends -- steel when the only good material for a frame was aluminum or titanium; friction when indexing was the only game; long rear-centers and shorter front-centers compared to crit geometries; frames that take wider tires and fenders and racks; and above all Grant's signature "feel" and handling qualities. He said himself, long ago (I signed up as a member in1994) that Rivendell was "product driven, not market driven". Now I don't think Rivendel today is market driven -- I think it drives its own little market, in fact -- but I have seen a trend toward style, albeit idiosyncratic, over function -- tweed mudflaps, dual top tubes on smaller frames, and so forth.

So, you say: go elsewhere. But I have emotion invested in Rivendell -- I've owned 5 over the years, not to mention huge quantities of other gear -- and therefore I feel sad when I see what appears to me to be unreasonable designs.

So, I believe I do have a right to my own feelings and opinions about Rivendell -- long may it reign!

[Peter Morgano]

I don't know if the Double TT is market driven, it seems to be a pretty divisive issue. Far be it for me to deny anyone their feelings about anything, especially Rivendell. But if the market is responding to what they are doing they would be fools to not jump on some of the trends.  I would hate to think that its like a vacuum in Walnut Creek.  I thin its like 51 flavors, something for everyone. I could personally take or leave the double TT, I am not smarts enough about geometry and planing and whatnot to know if it hurts or helps. I love the way my 56cm Bombadil rides, dunno if it would ride the same with one TT. It would be nice to offer people a choice, however, but that is probably cost prohibitive.

[Patrick Moore]

I'll just add this: IF I could afford a Bombadil or Hunquapillar, AND if the frame took disk brakes (I ride 44 mm boutique, lightweight, and expensive rims), I'd buy one in a NY minute, dtt or no. (Though I'd try to disguise the lower tt as a pump or somthing.)

[Peter Morgano]

I am imagining Patrick hiring a painter to mock up the lower tt as a pump, hahaha.  Good times.

[sameness]

I'd venture that we'd sooner see a third top tube (Quadrapillar!) than a disk Riv.

Jeff "Them's The Brakes" Hagedorn

Warragul, VIC Australia

[hsmitham]

Patrick,

Though I'd try to disguise the lower tt as a pump or somthing, Isn't that style? Your style. The beauty is that you have a choice. but I have seen a trend toward style, albeit idiosyncratic, over function -- tweed mudflaps, dual top tubes on smaller frames, and so forth "Sad" about "style" over "function" the two the two can be mutual, as far as I can tell "Riv" does a pretty good job of offering an alternative to the myriad of choices out there and as far as idiosyncratic, thank heaven for different...and sometimes a design even from the most heralded can fall short... I bow down to a mistake, for from doing thus I learn.

I don't intend to be snarky using red it's just late & I'm short cutting it.

~Hugh"Style" Smitham

[Curtis McKenzie]

I really like my DTT Hilsen. I hope everyone enjoys their bike as much as I enjoy mine. 

Ride Safe,

Curtis

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[Eric Platt]

Personally, I like the double top tube and think it is a fine marketing tool.  Makes the bikes look different enough from other modern steel bikes. (Surly, All City, Handsome, etc.)  Don't like the diagatube personally, but that is my own problem.  Still somewhat regret not getting a Hunq.  But am reasonably happy with my current two Rivendell bikes. And my SH does have a double top tube

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[Kelly]

There is lots of choice. Atlantis single top tube... Roadeo single top tube AHH up to 67cm stt
The mud flaps are actually very functional and I like them better than the heavy leather flaps I got from Peter white since they held shape and dragged on grass less aggressively.

I can't speak for other bikes but compare to previous stt bike my bomba 2tt handles the heavy loads I generally carry better. Especially when standing and climbing my old bikes felt noodle and the bomba just climbs like nothing is on it.

Seems to me riv offers selection, function and good looks meeting the taste through differing models to reach a large audience.

Kelly
Thinking of painting second top tube as air pump now.. Thanks Patrick

[Hugh Smitham]

Yep. That bout sums er up.

Best,

~Hugh

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[Patrick Moore]

On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:32 AM, hsmitham <hughs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick,

Though I'd try to disguise the lower tt as a pump or something, Isn't that style?

Actually, it was a joke. In real life I'd have it painted as a snake. That's a joke too, though it might be a stylin' modification, too.

 

I don't intend to be snarky using red it's just late & I'm short cutting it.

Not offended; in fact I'm rather color blind so didn't notice the red until I re(a)d your mention of it.

All you double top tuber lovers have great fun on your Rivs, and I'm glad. 

Patrick Moore, who hasn't ridden since last Friday because of work and a bad cold, the first in two years or more, and is bitter and morose in consequence.

[Hugh Smitham]

Patrick,

I dig ya dude...sorry to hear you have a cold and haven't ridden lately. 

Now I think you need a DTT so you can do the snake paint.

Best,

~Hugh

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[Deacon Patrick]

Sometimes a snake on a top tube is just a snake on a top tube. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick, for clarity, the mountain Patrick rather than the desert Patrick. 

[Jim Cloud]

It's fairly easy to mount a pump so that it doesn't conflict with picking up the bike and shouldering it to carry the bike.  Here's a photo that shows my Rivendell Road Standard with the pump (a Silca) mounted behind the seat tube using a Campy "umbrella" style pump holder.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37964304@N05/10299444896/in/photostream/lightbox/

I live in an upstairs apartment and carry my bike down every time I ride.  I'm personally not a big fan of the double top tube frames, but I suppose they may be needed for a frame as large as the H.H. listed on eBay (71 cm).  My frame is 65 cm, and I've never experienced any issues with frame rigidity (I also have a 26" Schwinn Paramount).

To each his/her own...

Jim

[rob markwardt]

Ah...my favorite Rivendell.  Every time the conversation turns towards the current Rivendell design..double top tube, diagonal tubes, curvy stays, beefy (my opinion).... I think about what drove me to Rivendell in the first place.  Simple, clean,classic, proportional lines. I can't remember the exact quote from an early reader and I may be paraphrasing but Grant said something to the effect that he liked bike frames to be "bird like". Jim's bike is it for me.