Off-pavement riding

[ayjaydee]

What are your thoughts on this sudden "discovery" of the pleasures of off-pavement riding by the gravel specific bike manufacturers. It seems to me that they feel they have invented a whole new form of bicycle activity.

[Patrick Moore]

My ideas: to quote: "Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz".

Wha....?! Oh, sorry, you woke me up. 

More particuarly: I think it's great that the Market is offering another piece of pie beside the roadie and gnarly and comfort slices, but it's not new at all.

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 11:33 AM, ayjaydee <uta...@gmail.com> wrote:

What are your thoughts on this sudden "discovery" of the pleasures of off-pavement riding by the gravel specific bike manufacturers. It seems to me that they feel they have invented a whole new form of bicycle activity.

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Albuquerque, NM

[Deacon Patrick]

Wai... Wha? I could ride my bike off pavement? Gah! I wish I'd known sooner.

With abandon,

Patrick

[RJM]

I think the addition of "gravel grinder" or "cyclocross" into the big bike stores will be a welcomed addition to any rider's fleet, but the problem I have with really most of the bigger manufacturers is that they always sell through racing. Cyclocross is a race, gravel grinder is being sold as a race. I just don't get it or the allure of racing pushing bikes and using racing as a selling point.

 

 

That is one, and not really the biggest, reason I love Riv.

 

 

I got to ride with a friend who is getting into cycling this past weekend. We did a 15mph or so ramble through some flat country roads I know. He couldn't keep asking about my bike (sam hillborne with Pari Motos, quill stem, leather saddle, friction shifting ect...and why I picked a bike like that for riding. He was on a Motobecane road bike, 23mm tires and a saddle that hurts his behind. He complains about comfort on that bike and I just had to nicely school him on what makes a bike comfortable, why I chose the ride I had, why my bike is comfortable for 100  miles while he gets saddle sores and an aching back.  He just can't get the "you have to be fast or at least trying to be fast" when you are riding out of his head.

 

 

I think my next bike is going to be a Yves Gomez or some other riv with upright bars and some fatty wide tires, fully fendered, awesome looking....and I am going to ride it on the singletrack around here. I just love coming across people on their carbon wonderbikes and having them see, maybe for the first time, how you can be comfortable and carefree without needing to be racing all the time. You can actually have fun on the bike without having to race or look like you are racing.

 

Anyway, I am kind of ranting because I am bored at work and want to be riding my Riv.

 

 

In the end, bikes that will allow wider tires and be ridden on the road and gravel are always good. They probably will not be as nice as my Rivs though.

 

 

[Bill Lindsay]

"I just don't get it or the allure of racing pushing bikes and using racing as a selling point."

Seriously.  Pushing racing bikes on everybody made as much sense as pushing Formula 1 race cars on everybody, regardless of how they drive, and track racing cleats for everybody, regardless of how or where they walk or run.  Comparatively speaking, we are in a golden age of bicycles.  There's so much more variety today than there was 20 years ago.  Gravel grinders are just part of the story.  Things seem to be getting better and better, too.  IMO

[Rambouilleting Utahn]

Take a look at the history of recreational skis, 25 years ago every advanced skier skied on a ski that "racing" written on it somewhere. 

Now nobody takes racing skis off of the race course unless they are carving trenches on the groomers.

The technology still trickles down to the "all mountain" or "free rider" crowd.

Give it time, people just may see the light. In the meantime enjoy some of the technology that is making its way to "country bikes"

[Mike Schiller]

I think this is just the big companies trying to catch up with the little guys who've been doing this already... Like Riv or Salsa/Surly/Soma.

I'm hoping it will bring out more suitable tires and rims.   

And, of course this was  what mountain biking was all about in the 80's. Rigid steel bikes with lugs, comfortable for all kinds of riding, before shocks came on the market and the whole downhill thing screwed up everything.

~mike

[Anne Paulson]

I wish marketers would push the "country bike" esthetic in addition to
the cyclocross/gravel grinder esthetic. I end up riding my bike on a
lot of the same trails and fire roads that my husband hikes on. And
while people run on those trails, there is also a hiking equipment
market for people who just want to go for a nice walk: maybe a hat
with a full brim to keep the sun off your face even though it's not
aerodynamic, maybe hiking poles to support you on steep downhills even
though they are extra weight, maybe more heavy-duty pants because they
look good and are comfortable, and so forth. Nobody comes up to my
husband and says, "Isn't that hat HEAVY? Doesn't it slow you down?
Doesn't it catch the wind?" They know he is out there to enjoy
himself. But people often question my bike. Don't they realize I'm out
there to enjoy myself?

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-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

[Christopher Chen]

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Anne Paulson <anne.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

But people often question my bike. Don't they realize I'm out
there to enjoy myself?

I think the smiles on many of our faces pre-empt those questions much of the time. Honestly, when I ride my Hilsen, I'm beaming all the god-damn time. I feel sorry for people who look like they're in pain.

Now if I would only keep my eyes open while riding.

cc

 

--
"I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah

[Eric Platt]

I actually see it as a nice trend to help create a market for more wide tires.  And, yes, it's connected to racing, but like Mike said, this is more about informal racing that was part of the earlier years of mountain biking.  Not sure that it's that different that the bikepacking movement with frame bags and ultralight equipment.  All of it had been done in the past.   It's just things coming around again. 

 

Can't even say the fatbike movement is new since there were folks in Alaska and Wisconsin running double tires on bikes back in the 1980's.  And betting it existed in full form well before then.

 

Guess I'm one that thinks if it gets more folks out there on bikes, good.

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[cyclotourist]

I love the idea of this segment being promoted. I wish there wasn't an
emphasis on racing, but it seems the big bike mfgrs can't sell a bike
unless it has that racing aesthetic built into it.

The upcoming Raleigh Tamland looks like a great bike. I don't get the
sense that they're pushing the racing aspect on it, or they're at
least minimizing it. Discs are over-rated (says the dry SoCal rider)
but that's not a deal breaker on it.

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Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Peter Morgano]

Seems like someone should make some kind of I don't know "All Rounder" type bike you could ride on pavement, gravel, fire roads. They should make it so you can get the bars high for comfort, it should be able to take bigger tires and be made of lugged steel for looks and ride comfort, oh wait...

[Patrick Moore]

I know what you mean! A Fargo!

Patrick "it's actually quite Rivendellianesqueisticish" Moore

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Peter Morgano <uscpet...@gmail.com> wrote:

Seems like someone should make some kind of I don't know "All Rounder" type bike you could ride on pavement, gravel, fire roads. They should make it so you can get the bars high for comfort, it should be able to take bigger tires and be made of lugged steel for looks and ride comfort, oh wait...

[Peter Morgano]

Haha, Touche!

--

[justin...@gmail.com]

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/justinaugust/10179474074/

Love the versatility of a Riv frame with the newer tires on the market.

-J

[Leslie]

http://www.g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-open-source-naming-project.html

http://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2013/09/open-source-naming-project-open-letter.html

[Leslie]

http://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-pivotal-moment.html

[Garth]

While more choice of bikes is a good thing ... limiting them to disc brakes is not.  To me this just a way to promote disc brakes for road bikes ... lol.

[hsmitham]

I think I'm in the camp with Mike S. If it provides more tire options it's a wonderful thing! As far as the race thing goes...I read a thing from our very own Patrick ( Paraphrasing here) that he enjoys watching the BORAF and others but has no desire to actually race or dress like a racer, which I totally agree with. Racing has created some interesting technical develpoments that trickle down some good, some questionable.

And yes Chris the smile disarms all those wondering about the upright comfortable bike.

Quick anecdotal, while still riding Carbon I was in my LBS in Pasadena and I was looking at all the bikes (I was aware of Rivendell but figured they were out of my league) in the store and one of the managers approached me and asked if I need help? I asked him if ever they planed on bringing in any steel lugged bicycles with good tire clearances, he looked at me with such disdain ad said something to the effect that that's not their market and figure it never will be...I was floored by his arrogance. Soon after that I sold my Crapon bike and started the process of buying a Rivendell. Thank God Grant went contrary to the trends of the day.

~Hugh

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:33:50 AM UTC-7, ayjaydee wrote:

[cyclotourist]

I wonder why a reputable bike shop couldn't sell MCRBs... AND steel
bikes with fat tires?
My LBS has a Crosscheck and LHT or two tucked in there amongst all the
crabon fibre, and seems to be surviving financially.

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[hsmitham]

No doubt David but then Redlands has a strong off road contingent, Pasadena seems to be race bike and MTB downhill bombing centric. I suspect that people with the means to purchase a Steel lugged in Pasadena and Los Angeles perceive these bikes as either old fashioned or clunky, little do they realize just how off that perception is...further more shops like the one I mentioned leave a niche for bike stores like GSC Golden Saddle Cyclery in Silver Lake, so the tide continues to rise in a good way.

~Hugh

[cyclotourist]

Pass has a good deal of steel bike appreciation:
http://www.velo-retro.com/roseBowlVintRide.html :-)

On 10/10/13, hsmitham <hughs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No doubt David but then Redlands has a strong off road contingent, Pasadena
>
> seems to be race bike and MTB downhill bombing centric. I suspect that
> people with the means to purchase a Steel lugged in Pasadena and Los
> Angeles perceive these bikes as either old fashioned or clunky, little do
> they realize just how off that perception is...further more shops like the
> one I mentioned leave a niche for bike stores like GSC Golden Saddle
> Cyclery in Silver Lake, so the tide continues to rise in a good way.
>
> ~Hugh
>
> On Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:19:20 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I wonder why a reputable bike shop couldn't sell MCRBs... AND steel
>> bikes with fat tires?
>> My LBS has a Crosscheck and LHT or two tucked in there amongst all the
>> crabon fibre, and seems to be surviving financially.
>>

>> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

>> > To post to this group, send email to

>> > rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.

[Hugh Smitham]

Yes they like Steel & lugs with skinny tires, I've met some of these fellows and the criticisms can get annoying if your bike is not completely era specific...to each their own :-)

Best,

~Hugh

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[cyclotourist]

My 2001 Rivs are pretty much period correct!

[Hugh Smitham]

Yep, but I feel they don't need to be, I had a 90's era Pinarello Montello and it was pretty period with a few exceptions and I got an ear full. I totally appreciate what these guy's do it's fantastic, but I'm just not that into it. I can appreciate those bikes in others hands :-)

Best,

~Hugh

[cyclotourist]

That's funny. I didn't realize they were so obsessive. Everyone needs a hobby!

[Hugh Smitham]

Indeed.

Best,

~Hugh

[numbnuts]

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:33:50 AM UTC-7, ayjaydee wrote:

What are your thoughts on this sudden "discovery" of the pleasures of off-pavement riding by the gravel specific bike manufacturers. It seems to me that they feel they have invented a whole new form of bicycle activity.

Well, that's it! All of cycling is really just a long continuum, but marketing people want to focus us on a 'new' thing, which is really just a part of the continuum that was always there. Rarely, in cycling and most everywhere else, is something really 'new'. 

To me, personal watercraft were 'new'. At least until I looked into the other sorta similar water born personal propulsion thingamabobs. But to me, they were new. So maybe to some a 'gravel' bike will also be new. 

That said, bigger tires are good, and drop bar bikes that can ride in the dirt are good. So where's the rub?

Well, to me the rub is that marketing can serve to divide people into segments, or boxes, rather than to promote the bigger truth, which is that were all just part of one big continuum. I add to the already long list of cycling descriptors.......'Gravel Guy/Gal'. 

As in......

Dude: 'You ride?' 

Dudette: 'Yep, sure do.' 

Dude: 'Whatcha into?'

Dudette: 'Is that a trick question?'

Dude: 'Naa, just wondering what kind of riding you do.'

Dudette: 'Ahh, I'm a Gravel Gal.'

Dude: 'Oh, so you like to get dirty.'

Dudette: 'Go away!'

Smooth tracks,

Chris

Redding, Ca.

[Steven Frederick]

Tut, nothing really exists until it's been successfully marketed, accessorized and niche'd.  B-)

Steve

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:33 PM, ayjaydee <uta...@gmail.com> wrote:

What are your thoughts on this sudden "discovery" of the pleasures of off-pavement riding by the gravel specific bike manufacturers. It seems to me that they feel they have invented a whole new form of bicycle activity.

--

[Daniel D.]

 "Dude I've been riding fixed since '83!"