Rambouillet or San Marcos

[SeanMac]

Hi everyone,

I am searching for a new bike.  I currently have a go-fast(ish) bike, a Bob Brown custom, which can fit a tire no larger than 23 X 700.  I also have a Trek 520 Touring bike from the early 1990s.  I am searching for a bike to fit between these two models.

Years ago I nearly purchased a Rivendell Rambouillet (I got the Bob Brown instead), so I have a sentimental attachment to that bike.  Every now and then a Ram appears here on the list or on ebay - I always find these listings to be very tempting.  However, I wonder how much difference there is between a used Ram and a new San Marcos.  The paint finish and headbadge of the bikes do differ, but how much do the ride qualities differ?  At this point, is it a better value to invest $900 in a used Rambo frame or $900 in a new San Marcos?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Sean

[Patrick Moore]

Wouldn't the Ram be a 2000--2500 dollar frame if still made and sold today? I would immediately choose a nice condition Ram, as I was lucky to do a year ago.

At any rate, it's a very classy bike and in my garage fits a niche very like that you are trying to fill.

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[Bill Lindsay]

either should be great.  the tiebreaker should probably how you want it to fit.  Rambu has a nearly level top tube and the san marcos has a lot of upslope. 

another tiebreaker may come if you are in a size that would mean different wheelsizes between the two. 

finally there's just how patient you are willing to be

[cyclotourist]

I would say Ram, as I'm a Riv fanboy, not a SOMA one. Ram's are
getting fewer and further in between, I'd get one if you see one in
your size (don't settle for a poor fitting bike!).

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Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[bo richardson]

having two Rambouillets at present and anAtlantis and having
had an AHH I sold in favor of the Rambouillet, I come down hard on the
side of rhe Rambouillet.

My brother has a Rambouillet which he bought before i bought mine.
I bought mine on the basis of having ridden his. No regrets

Self interest notice
I am only keeping one Rambouillet. Should you be interested in a
green 56 Rambouillet with fresh new top quality parts we might have a confluence of interet.

thanks

Bo Richardson
Bellingham Wa

[Sean McAtee]

Thanks for all of your responses.  I must admit, I'm not terribly shocked that the Rambo is considered the way for me to go. 

Bo, I'm really intrigued by all that you said.  What made you sell the AHH in favor of a Rambo?  I'm curious because another option that I have considered is saving up my cash to purchase a new or used AHH.

Also, Bo, as far as your 56 Rambo, I wish I could help, but it is too small for me.  Whenever I measure my PBH I end up somewhere between 86 and 87 (I'm about 5 foot 11).  Based on those measurements I would be best fit on at least a 58 Rambo - perhaps even a 60.

By the way, if anyone has a Rambo that has a PBH similar to mine, I would be curious about your recommendation for size -- would I fit best on a 58 or a 60?

Sean

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[Eric Daume]

At your size, I think all the San Marcos frames are double top tubers. That makes the decision for a Ram easy for me.

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[cyclotourist]

Here's a 58cm looking for a new home: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331040514123

[Sean McAtee]

I tend to agree, Eric.  Still not sure if a 58 Rambo is the right size for me.  When I got fit for my Bob Brown custom, by a local guy using the Serotta system, I ended up with a bike that measures 56.2 to the center of the seat tube at a top tube length of 54.  This bike is great for rides up to about two hours.  Beyond that time I end up with a sore back and numb hands.  Therefore, I am looking for a bike that will be more useful / comfortable on longer rides.  I've lusted after a Rivendell for years, but never had the cash to buy one.  Now that cash is still a bit of a struggle, but I feel like I am in a position to pull the trigger if I get the right deal.  Since Buffalo, NY is a long way from Riv's world headquarters, I have no real opportunity to get sized by someone at Riv.  Thus, I waver on what size would be best for me.

Sean

[Sean McAtee]

I've had my eye on that since it was listed.  It has already cost me several hours of "research" on the internet!

Sean

[Ken Mattina]

Never is a word I seldom use, but I would never buy a bike with a double top tube.  Well if I was 7 feet tall maybe.

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[cyclotourist]

It's one of three really nice Rivendells fs at the moment. That blue
Ram sure is pretty though!

[Big Paulie]

I'm going to break with the other posters, and go with the San Marcos.

 

I'm 5'10'' with an 86.5 PBH, as measured by Grant. The 54 San Marcos fits me perfectly, with an 11cm stem.

 

I've owned both the Rambouillet and the San Marcos, and I find the San Marcos to be a better handling bike, when ridden with no "extras" like fenders and baskets and bags. Dead solid neutral. The Rambouillet, for me, was a touch twitchy. 

 

Plus, the San Marcos is available pretty much "on demand."

[Dave Johnston]

I have a 56cm Rambouillet and a 57 Bleriot and the Ram languishes while the Bleriot gets ridden. I love the ride and handling that the 38mm Parimoto 650b tires gives the Bleriot. The Ruffy Tuffy 28mm tires on the Ram just feel harsh and no faster to me. Also almost all of my rides involves some dirt roads even if I have to go seek them out, which I wouldn't do on 28s.

OTOH I would not want a second top tube, but my size San Marcos would be 650b and single top tube. Have you considered a used Bleriot? The frames were originally like $750 so might be quite a bargain used.

I'm not selling the ramboulliet thoygh as its such a lovely bike in near perfect condition. When I get some extra dough I'm gonna try some Grand Bois Cypress 700 x 32, to see if I can get some extra cush and speed.

[Kieran J]

I'm on a tall Ram with the Jack Brown Greens, and the ride is fabulous. I use a small saddlebag, and sometimes add a Loafer bag on the Mark's Rack. I would recommend 700x30 or 32 (or 33.333333) with the Ram, as long as you are not planning on fenders. With Berthoud fenders, I struggled to fit even a 28mm tire comfortably.

Not sure what the fender clearance is for the San Marcos.

KJ

[cyclotourist]

Jack Browns, GB Cypres, or Challenge Eroica all do great on hard-pack
dirt. None have slowed me down.

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[Sean McAtee]

I do appreciate all of the comments.  I don't anticipate riding much on dirt - more long rides on the road. 

I am looking for some help with sizing - especially sizing a Rambouillet.  Whenever I measure my PBH I end up somewhere between 86 and 87 (I'm about 5 foot 11).  I'm not sure whether I would do best  on a 58 Rambo or a 60. 

Sean

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/13/2013 06:29 PM, Sean McAtee wrote:
> I do appreciate all of the comments. I don't anticipate riding much
> on dirt - more long rides on the road.
>
> I am looking for some help with sizing - especially sizing a
> Rambouillet. Whenever I measure my PBH I end up somewhere between 86
> and 87 (I'm about 5 foot 11). I'm not sure whether I would do best
> on a 58 Rambo or a 60.

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html

[Patrick Moore]

I don't know from my PBH, but I am 5'10" with a looong torso and fit a 58 Ram just fine with 9 cm stem holding 42 cm Noodles (have sweepback) 1-1/2-to-2 cm below saddle. 

If I were taller, I'd consider a 60, though only if my arms were longer, too, since my size 33 sleeves don't like ttt's much longer than 57 cm.

Wunnerful bike, the Ram. It's a bit more sedate than my 3 customs, and IMO much nicer handling on pavement than the Sam. "Sedate": I can more easily sit up on a 30+ mph downhill, take one hand off the bar, and twist to look behind me -- no commotion, no worries, no anxiety. My customs are a bit quicker, I think, tho' I wonder if that is the 559 and very light wheels.

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Sean McAtee <sean...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Dan McNamara]

I have a PBH of 84.5 and can ride my 58 Ram comfortably. I am 5'9". 

The stem is 6cm and there is about 9cm of seatpost showing (side of tube to rail).

Seems like a 60 Ram would be a better bet. Just double checked the brochure and the 60 was recommended for PBH 87-89 and heights of 5'9"-6'1". 

The 58 is 5'7"-5'11" and PBH 84-86. 

A call to Riv is probably your best bet. 

Dan

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/13/2013 06:56 PM, Dan McNamara wrote:

I have a PBH of 84.5 and can ride my 58 Ram comfortably. I am 5'9". 

The stem is 6cm and there is about 9cm of seatpost showing (side of tube to rail).

Seems like a 60 Ram would be a better bet. Just double checked the brochure and the 60 was recommended for PBH 87-89 and heights of 5'9"-6'1". 

The 58 is 5'7"-5'11" and PBH 84-86. 

A call to Riv is probably your best bet. 

The two dimensions you really have to worry about are standover and top tube length, in that being way off on either of those can really mess things up.  People are built very differently: some with long legs/torsos have short arms, and some with short legs/torsos have long arms.   PBH by itself may give you the standover (as, of course, would a direct standover measurement) but it won't help with the reach.

[Sean McAtee]

Steve, thanks for the link to the geometry chart.  Dan, I appreciate your input also.  The way that I read the chart and Dan's comments, I am probably best on a 60.  However, I don't know whether I am better off being a bit big for a 58 or at the smallish end of a 60.  The 58 Rambo currently available on ebay is certainly attractive.  I am really tempted to bid on that one, but I hate to end up with a bike that is too small for me.

[cyclotourist]

Sean, do you like bars at/above/below seat height? As long as it's
below or at, the smaller size should be fine. Then at worst you'll
have an extra 2cm of seat post and stem showing, along w/ a 2cm longer
stem. Everything else would be pretty much the same. If the 58cm ends
up being a bit too small, you would be able to re-sell it pretty
easily, and maybe even find a 60cm to trade straight over for.

My $.02

On 10/13/13, Sean McAtee <sean...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Sean McAtee]

I appreciate your $.02.  The bike that I normally ride has the bars a few cm below the saddle.  This is probably one of the causes of the numbness that I have been having in my hands on longer rides.  I was just looking at the geometry charts.  My current bike has a top tube of 54 - the top tube of the Ram is 3cm longer.  Of course, the angles are a bit different on the bikes. 

In the grand scheme of things, when I look at the charts, a few centimeters does not seem like anything that cannot be adjusted by seats / seat posts and stems.  The 58 Rambo has a standover height of 82.1 versus 79.2 of my current bike.  This seems do-able

[Patrick Moore]

Before all else, you need to know what makes "good setup" for your body and riding style. Peter Jon White has some good thoughts on bike setup, here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm .

All elements of body type, condition, riding style, frame geometry work together, and you can't make a general rule about any one element. There have been those on this list for whom hand numbness was helped by *lowering* their bars. Others find comfort with bar high above the saddle.

But look at PJW, particularly about saddle setback. Grant tipped me off to a rearward saddle position back in ~ 1994, and it solved many of my problems. There are two wonderful things about my Rivendells: first, the way they handle. But second, and more important, even, is the way they "fit". 

[cyclotourist]

The head tube is _probably_ longer, so that'll let you raise them up a
bit, at least to saddle height.

[Nick Worthington]

For what it's worth, I have an 87 PBH, and ride a 61 ROMulus.  Not an exact 1-1 match, but very similar.  Rides really nice with GB Cypress, and just fits VO hammered fenders.  

Nick

[joe kelly]

hi
i think that it would be better to get the san marcos. given that you buy it from rivendell directly, your helping them stay in business. it can run fatter tires with fenders than the rambouillet too. all the qualities that the ram has in regards to resale, handling, beauty,etc. apply equally to the san marcos, i believe.
thanks
joe

[Michael]

If I had to choose between the two:

 

Rambouillet...

 

The thrill of a new bike may wear off, but a cream headtube lasts forever...

 

 

[Sean McAtee]

I do agree with that.  My Bob Brown custom is a deep burgundy red with a cream headtube.  It makes me smile whenever I look at it!

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[Michael]

Just make sure that whatever you get can fit the tire/fender combo you want.

 

[JL]

Like others have said, get a Ram. It is the bike you want.

Don't compromise on sizing. Wait and get a 60cm when one turns up.

Jason

[Perry]

More ingredients to stir into the pot…

A little dissent on the Ram. The asthetics of the contrasting paint and lugs on most Rivs are a bit too ornate for my taste so I actually like/prefer the riv/soma San Marcos. And the blue color is really nice (at least on the internets--never seen one in person). I thought hard about this bike when it came out. But alas, it has to be a 2 top tuber at my size and that breaks all deals for me. I think it has to get to 65 cm or larger before two tubes start to look right to my eye.

As for size, I've had many, many bikes that should have fit me according to charts, recommendations and such. All ended up being too small but I've never had a bike that was too big. I, however, like my bars above the saddle and I'm riding Albas. For what it's worth.

Particulars: I've been told I have very uniform, off the shelf proportions of torso/legs/arms. After repeated measurements, I read my PBH as between 34.5 inches (87.63 centimeters) and 34.62500 inches (87.9475 centimeters). The last bike I bought was a vintage trek which I thought would probably be too big. But for $100, what the hey! This is the best fitting bike I've ever owned (although I wouldn't go any bigger). It measures as follows: Seat tube: 24" C-T, Top tube: 23" C-C, Standover 34.5". When I straddle the bike at stops, the top tube is right up there in my business. And yet, after many miles, it's never been a real world issue. Because of the albas, a longer top tube would be fine. But this top tube measurement would definitely work with drop bars if I went that way. There's less than a fistful of seatpost showing--which looks fine to me eye. But I find too little seatpost showing preferable to too much…whatever the too little/too much designations even mean.

I have to personally thank Grant here. I wouldn't have looked at a bike this big in my lifetime had it not been for his well publicized opinions on the matter. Really opened my eyes. So all this is just some more data which may in no way apply whatsoever to you.

Good luck!
• Perry

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/14/2013 03:33 AM, Perry wrote:
> Particulars: I've been told I have very uniform, off the shelf proportions of torso/legs/arms. After repeated measurements, I read my PBH as between 34.5 inches (87.63 centimeters) and 34.62500 inches (87.9475 centimeters).

With this much variation in measurement due to technique, does it make
sense to cite a measurement with 4 or 5 digits to the right of the
decimal point?

[Bobish]

I didn't measure the greatly precise mm. I just did a conversion from the inch measurement and copied and pasted the results so the op could see the mm compared to his own pbh without having to do the math.

• Perry

[Perry]

PS. If it makes a difference, I was workig from original inch PBH measurements 34-1/2" and 34-5/8" for all my conversions.

• Perry

[naw...@comcast.net]

Sean,

I have the same measurements and pbh as you. Rivs I have owned: 61 Atlantis, 60 Rambouillet, 60 Quickbeam

Current Rivs in garage: 59 Rodeo, 60 Simpleone

The 60 Rambouillet was a great fit, no issues at all. Great for long road rides.

I rode a demo Ram 62 for a weekend when I lived near WC.  It was a bit large.

Also like the bars up above the saddle.

Dave Nawrocki

Ft. Collins, CO

---

From: "Sean McAtee" <sean...@gmail.com>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com, boru...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:29:30 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Rambouillet or San Marcos

Thanks for all of your responses.  I must admit, I'm not terribly shocked that the Rambo is considered the way for me to go. 

Bo, I'm really intrigued by all that you said.  What made you sell the AHH in favor of a Rambo?  I'm curious because another option that I have considered is saving up my cash to purchase a new or used AHH.

Also, Bo, as far as your 56 Rambo, I wish I could help, but it is too small for me.  Whenever I measure my PBH I end up somewhere between 86 and 87 (I'm about 5 foot 11).  Based on those measurements I would be best fit on at least a 58 Rambo - perhaps even a 60.

By the way, if anyone has a Rambo that has a PBH similar to mine, I would be curious about your recommendation for size -- would I fit best on a 58 or a 60?

Sean

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM, bo richardson <boru...@gmail.com> wrote:

having two Rambouillets at present and anAtlantis  and having
had an AHH I sold in favor of the Rambouillet, I come down hard on the
side of rhe Rambouillet.

 My brother has a Rambouillet which he bought before i bought mine.
I bought mine on the basis of having ridden his. No regrets

Self interest notice
I am only keeping one Rambouillet. Should you be interested in a
green 56 Rambouillet with fresh new top quality parts we might have a confluence of interet.

thanks

Bo Richardson
Bellingham Wa

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[Tony McG]

I have been very happy with my San Marcos.  I have never ridden a Rambouillet, but I have talked with people who have and the biggest difference that they have commented on is that the San Marcos frame is stiffer.  I am 6' tall with an 89 cm pbh and I am riding a 59 San Marcos with a 7 cm stem; the handlebars are level with the 79 cm saddle height.  It easily fits 33.3 Jack Browns, but I haven't tried them with fenders.  I have ridden the San Marcos about 2500 over the last year and a half, including two RAGBRAI.  It has been very comfortable and predictable, and it climbs hills like a goat.

[Michael Rivers]

Height 6' 1/2"
PBH 87cm
Saddle height 77cm
Ram 60cm
Quickbeam 60cm
AHH 61cm

I have never had any problems with standover on any of the bikes and the Noodles on the Ram are about 2cm below saddle. Currently the Ram is set up 650b, but I ran Jack Brown Greens happily as I weigh 196 lbs.

www.flickr.com/mrivers

[Kelly]

It seems to me that if you saved your money the Roedeo would be a closer alternative than the AHH. I love my RAM but, they don't make a Roadeo in my size so the RAM fit that nook for me.

Kelly

[iamkeith]

No opinion on the San Marcos, but some insight on the Ram - though it seems others have already confirmed this:  60 cm seems just right for you. 

 

I am between 6'-1" and 6'-2", but have a similar (87cm) PBH to you, with a long torso.   The stand-over with the stock 28mm rolly polly/ruffy tuffy tires is just perfect for me - basically "touches flesh" when flat footed but  no fear of banging into it whatsoever, in any kind of riding I'd ever do on this type of bike.  And you might remember from the original Riv flyer/catalog that they sized these with shorter than normal top tubes, specifically to encourage people to buy the larger of two workable sizes.   On that note, I do wish mind had a longer top tube to work with my odd proportions, but it's still the most comfortable and smoothest riding bike I've ever had (including two other rivs), and wouldn't sell it for anything.  I had some big bags on mine, before I found my all rounder, and used it more heavily loaded than it was intended for too, with no complaints.

[LBleriot]

Here are my two cents. I am 5'10" with an 85cm pbh. I owned a 58 Ram and found it to be a dream ride. Sort of the gateway drug to Riv philosophy for me. My Ram was destroyed in an incident with an elderly driver. It and 3 vertabrae were cracked. After several discussions with Grant over a AHH or Roadeo replacement (I went with the Roadeo) I bought a 56 San Marcos as a recovery bike. The "expanded frame" of the SM allowed me to get the bars up nice and high. The clearance also allowed me to experiment with 32mm tires and fenders. With the ability to add a rack, the SM is a bit more versatile for me than the Ram ever was. Bad roads, bad weather, a bit of gear to lug, it's all handled well by the SM. It's not the lightest or the prettiest Riv design, but for the bucks I
don't think it can be beat, even by the beloved Ram. Good luck with your search.

[Sean McAtee]

Again, I am very grateful for all of your comments and suggestions.  Temptation (as in the 58 cm blue Rambouillet frame now available on ebay - the one that I hear whispering my name) is a terrible thing.  The consensus seems to be that I would be better off on a 60 cm bike (or a 59, I assume, on a AHH). 

Just for the sake of asking, what would I notice if I decided to go after the 58 cm frame now on ebay.  How would being on a frame that is a bit too small affect the way that I feel on the bike.  Likewise, what improvement in feel would I gain by moving up to the 60 (or 59 AHH)?

Sean

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 5:09 PM, iamkeith <keith...@gmail.com> wrote:

No opinion on the San Marcos, but some insight on the Ram - though it seems others have already confirmed this:  60 cm seems just right for you. 

 

I am between 6'-1" and 6'-2", but have a similar (87cm) PBH to you, with a long torso.   The stand-over with the stock 28mm rolly polly/ruffy tuffy tires is just perfect for me - basically "touches flesh" when flat footed but  no fear of banging into it whatsoever, in any kind of riding I'd ever do on this type of bike.  And you might remember from the original Riv flyer/catalog that they sized these with shorter than normal top tubes, specifically to encourage people to buy the larger of two workable sizes.   On that note, I do wish mind had a longer top tube to work with my odd proportions, but it's still the most comfortable and smoothest riding bike I've ever had (including two other rivs), and wouldn't sell it for anything.  I had some big bags on mine, before I found my all rounder, and used it more heavily loaded than it was intended for too, with no complaints.

--

[Bruce Herbitter]

Took my Ram out yesterday for a club ride. The 37mm Paselas felt great. every time I get on the bike, I am surprised by how comfortable it is and how well it handles. I've had it with 28mm Contis, but always go back to fatter rubber.

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Dave Johnston <jdi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a 56cm Rambouillet and a 57 Bleriot and the Ram languishes while the Bleriot gets ridden. I love the ride and handling that the 38mm Parimoto 650b tires gives the Bleriot. The Ruffy Tuffy 28mm tires on the Ram just feel harsh and no faster to me. Also almost all of my rides involves some dirt roads even if I have to go seek them out, which I wouldn't do on 28s.

OTOH I would not want a second top tube, but my size San Marcos would be 650b and single top tube. Have you considered a used Bleriot? The frames were originally like $750 so might be quite a bargain used.

I'm not selling the ramboulliet thoygh as its such a lovely bike in near perfect condition. When I get some extra dough I'm gonna try some Grand Bois Cypress 700 x 32, to see if I can get some extra cush and speed.



On Sunday, October 13, 2013 5:13:59 PM UTC-4, Big Paulie wrote:

I'm going to break with the other posters, and go with the San Marcos.

 

I'm 5'10'' with an 86.5 PBH, as measured by Grant. The 54 San Marcos fits me perfectly, with an 11cm stem.

 

I've owned both the Rambouillet and the San Marcos, and I find the San Marcos to be a better handling bike, when ridden with no "extras" like fenders and baskets and bags. Dead solid neutral. The Rambouillet, for me, was a touch twitchy. 

 

Plus, the San Marcos is available pretty much "on demand."

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[Leslie]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:00:12 PM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:

Again, I am very grateful for all of your comments and suggestions.  Temptation (as in the 58 cm blue Rambouillet frame now available on ebay - the one that I hear whispering my name) is a terrible thing.  The consensus seems to be that I would be better off on a 60 cm bike (or a 59, I assume, on a AHH). 

Just for the sake of asking, what would I notice if I decided to go after the 58 cm frame now on ebay.  How would being on a frame that is a bit too small affect the way that I feel on the bike.  Likewise, what improvement in feel would I gain by moving up to the 60 (or 59 AHH)?

Sean

Might also want to keep an eye out for a 59 Romulus.    I have a 60 Ram that I converted to 650b, fendered and dyno-lights, etc.;   I ended up grabbing a 59 canti-Rom from the list here to become my 'gravel grinder', I like the Clement MSO on it....

But a 59 AHH wouldn't be a bad choice at all, either...  

If you're not opposed to 650b, you might also consider a Saluki or a Bleriot;   that would open up the used-bike selection, maybe get which one you come across first...

 

[Saturday Mark]

Sean,

Saturday Cycles has a very nice build Rambouillet in 60cm. Original full build cost was about 4k....selling complete for 2400

Frameset	Riv Ramouillet
Brake Levers	SRAM
Shifters	Silver DT
Crank	Sugino compact2
Bottom Bracket	SKF
Brakes	Pauls Center
Front Derailleur	IRD
Rear Derailleur	Ultegra
Cassette	Shimano HG80
Chain	KMC 9x
Stem	Nitto
Handlebars	Nitto Noodle
Tape	green
Headset	Ultegra
Wheels:
.--.Front Hub	SON
.--.Rear Hub	Phil Wood
.--.Spokes
.--.Rims, 36H	Synergy
Saddle	Brooks B17 CS Green
Seatpost	Nitto Crystal
Tires	Schwalbe Durano
Pedals
Tubes
Front Rack	Nitto Marks
Cage
Lamp	Edeluxe
Decalleur
Bag	Sackville sm

[Don Compton]

Wow, that's a nice build. No shortcuts. If I didn't have my Roadeo( a 59cm ), I would jump on that bike. I had a 60 cm Ram and it was slightly a better fit for me. But, for many reasons, I really like my Roadeo. In general, Rivs have a certain handling characteristic that fits me. I am a believer.
Don

[stevef]

How much clearance do you have around those big tires?  I've been thinking about setting my Rambly up with fatter tires and no fenders-tempted by the new, suppler Pasela descendent Soma is offering.  (it's a 38mm tire)  Got a pic of your bike?
Thanks, Steve

[Kieran J]

On the Ram, you might be pushing it with the 38mm C-Line, depending on what the final actual dimensions are.

There is a nice comfortable amount of clearance between the 33.3mm JBs and the brakes, but I'm not sure I'd want to puff out any further.

 

KJ

[mikel...@juno.com]

depending what color Ram you have. my orange has a higher rear brake bridge so pasela 37's fit fine with 47-57 brake but in front i need a Tektro 559 extra long reach to clear the tire

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[Sean McAtee]

Don, if you have a moment, I would love to learn more about the differences in handling characteristics that you perceive between your Ram and your Rodeo.

PS:  The Ram that Saturday Cycles has available sounds like an awesome bike.  Unfortunately, it is more $ than I am willing to spend right now (just ask my wife!).

Sean

[Patrick Moore]

Please add me to the "want to know" list. Others' have responded to this question before, to the tune of, "The Roadeo handles quicker" but I won't mind hearing it all again.

I love my Ram, but I've noticed that it is more leisurely in handling than my customs -- ideal, for me, since it makes the Ram a better (rear -- haven't tried front) load carrier than they.

And what geometrical, tubing, or other differences between the two models cause a difference in handling?

IF I ever do touring, it will be on the Ram -- unless it is dirt road touring, in which case I'll choose the Fargo.

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Sean McAtee <sean...@gmail.com> wrote:

Don, if you have a moment, I would love to learn more about the differences in handling characteristics that you perceive between your Ram and your Rodeo.

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Albuquerque, NM

[Don Compton]

Sean,
First, my 60cm Ram had a 1cm longer seattube and a slightly shorter toptube than my 59cm Roadeo.. The handling is so similar. I think because of the Roadeo's slightly shorter chainstays and slightly lighter tubeset, the Roadeo just feels a little livelier. The feeling of entering a turn is very similar.
I don't have racks and don't carry anything more than a couple of bottles and and a small Acorn "rollbag" with minimum tools and spares. However, I usually ride on 700x29 GB Cerfs at low pressures.
I ride club rides and a few centuries and really enjoy riding this bike on bumpy, hilly, back roads in many areas of Northern Cal.
Hope this helps.
Don

[Bruce Herbitter]

Steve: The bike was always spec'd to carry 37s max. Here's a picture with Pasela 37s. (Those are now replaced by a tan skinwall set in the same size, and tan bar tape.) http://www.flickr.com/photos/9535930@N07/4892602448/in/set-72157612148124190

[Kieran J]

I also have an orange one (66cm) and maybe 35mm Paselas would be the max, without resulting in only a few mm of clearance, which is a little iffy, expecially if mixed terrain is your game.

 

In looking for a used Ram frame, I'm not sure how one could know which brake bridge height you had (lower vs. higher), apart from the colour, which seems to be at least part indication of the frame's age (orange, then blue, then green I think?). Are there any existing data points, such as axle-to-brake bridge measurement, that distinguish the early and later Rams and their respective tire clearances?

 

KJ

[BykMor]

This is Steve. Owner of the Rambouillet referenced below.

Some pictures are available here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111496061371485598754/albums/5935804564746652129

Corrections: the bottom bracket is NOT an SKF :-( Outboard bearings by Sugino.

Have a nice day.

BykMor

[iamkeith]

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:27:38 AM UTC-6, Kieran J wrote:

 

 In looking for a used Ram frame, I'm not sure how one could know which brake bridge height you had (lower vs. higher), apart from the colour, which seems to be at least part indication of the frame's age (orange, then blue, then green I think?). Are there any existing data points, such as axle-to-brake bridge measurement, that distinguish the early and later Rams and their respective tire clearances?

 

 

 

 

Some Rambouillets (the earlier, I believe) had two sets of eyelets at the rear dropouts, for both fenders and rack mounting.  Others (the later ones, I believe) had only one set.  I'm not sure if this correlates with a brake bridge height change or not, but it might be a good clue.  

 

Another possibility to throw out there -  just in case it may be the source of the question (or confusion) as to whether there in fact WERE different heights (since I really don't know what's true):  Is it possible that only the 26" wheeled version that had lower brake bridge, while all of the 700c versions had higher bridges/more clearance?   I ask/suggest this because it's the case with my wife's and mine.  Her 50cm/26" has noticeably less clearance than my 60cm/700c, and they're both about the same production age (2006, blue).  (I always thought it was weird that the 26" "seemed" to have such minimal clearance, given the fact that 26" tires are so difficult to find in narrower widths, and am somewhat relieved to learn, from this thread, that  maybe I'm not crazy after all.)

[Steven Frederick]

Thanks, Bruce.  I had 35's on mine for a while (no fenders) and it rode pretty sweetly.