Klean Kanteen Conversion Questons

[Deacon Patrick]

What is your experience with insulated/uninsulated Klean Kanteen bottles. Has anyone used the insulated as a camping mug? Used the single-walled one as your water boiling pot? Carried a 40 or 64 oz one in the velcro on/Irish strap secured cage manner?

More details:

I am now converting to using Klean Kanteen bottles (from the “glass” lined things Specialized makes) after 2/3rd of my bottles popped out of my standard cages last fall and I need to replace then anyway, as well as hearing the reports from folks here of how much better Iris cages hold bottles on trails, washboard, etc.

Between insulated and single-walled, and the larger bottles there seem to be some great options for various uses., I’m thinking:

(1) insulated 20 oz. bottle: mostly to help keep things cool in summer (I drink very little when it’s below freezing, and so seldom that it would be frozen anyway on a longer ride, without being inside my jacket. Also as my coffee/tea mug when bikepacking.

(2) uninsulated 28 oz. bottle: for daily ride increased volume of capacity, and for boiling water over the firebox when bikepacking.

(1) uninsulated 40 or 64 oz. with velcro on cage using Irish straps to secure it for bikepacking and extra water capacity. Suggestions on wear to strap this beastie?

On the Hunqapillar, this gives me up to 76 oz. for daily rides, 140 oz. capacity for bikepacking (plus a 100 oz bladder if needed, but it’s hard to use and tastes plasticy.)

Thoughts, suggestions?

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

www.OurHolyConception.org

[Mark Reimer]

Patrick,

I use both these on a daily basis, have been for about six months straight now. 

I use the 27oz/800ml for water. Never tried using it for boiling. Am I understanding you correctly that you would use the actual bottle as your boiling pot? I Couldn't do that as I have painted/colored bottles. That'd get nasty. I suppose with the unpainted ones you could probably do that, provided you had some thick gloves to pick it up. Anyway, no complaints. I love them actually. Drinking water from a wide-mouth bottle is delightful after squeezing water through a spout.

I use the insulated ones as coffee mugs. Klean Kanteen makes a HORRIBLE coffee lid which will turn it into a nice mug. I say horrible because it is in no way close to leak proof. Just walking around with it can cause leaks. But if you're just sitting around having a cup, no problem. I'm sipping coffee from one as I type actually. 

They come with a 'normal' lid, which is great and 100% leak proof. I can keep my coffee hot for 8 hours with that lid. 

I did experience an odd after-taste with the insulated ones, which lasted for about two weeks. It's totally gone now. A few good scrubs and a lot of coffee cured it of that. 

I've yet to try the larger size un-insulated, but plan on buying one to store under the down-tube in the third bottle cage of my Atlantis. I think Velo Orange just released a new cage for these. I've seen photos of other people fitting these bottles down there, should work. Alternatively you could just keep it in your saddle bag, or strap some cages to your fork legs, like how the Salsa Fargo's, Pugsleys, etc have. 

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Mark. Yes, I'd be using the brushed stainless uninsulated bottle as my pot. I've had this as a plan for years and am just getting to the conversion now. For the mug, I'd just be drinking out of the insulated metal bottle (removing the standard top). I'd be getting the sport top for the two uninsulated 28 oz. bottles.

My main concern with the 40 or 64 oz. bottles (I'm thinking the 64 will fit just in front of the rear tire on/behind the seat post tube.) is the weight torquing the bottle mounts off, even with additional straps. That's what I like about the velcro option is that with rubber tubing under it is should be fairly stable, but also not have a frame welded failure point.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Mark Reimer]

Can you elaborate on this?

"I've had this as a plan for years and am just getting to the conversion now."

Is there something special you've got to do to use a K.K. as a pot? 

I doubt you'd ever torque the bottle mounts off. You could definitely break a bottle cage though. The straps/velcro seem like a good idea.

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[Deacon Patrick]

Very exacting technique is required to boil water in a KK:

1. fill water into brushed stainless bottle.

2. place bottle on or above heat source (try this at home kids!)

3. wait for it to boil

4. use gloves or pot holder (tangier works well) to prevent cooking your hands when removing bottle.

5. prepare favorite hit beverage for yourself and all your friends.

6. allow the warmth of the sun stored in the fuel you burned to warm you as you sip your favorite hot beverage.

Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Mark Reimer]

Ooohhhh.... I'm going to have to try that one day!

[Deacon Patrick]

Here's the firebox I use:

http://www.fireboxstove.com/5-inch-folding-firebox

With abandon,

Patrick

[Liesl]

Hi Deacon Patrick!

Erin and I have used the 18 ounce insulated KK as a mug for a bunch of years at this point—at least 5.  Camping, biking, overseas, air travel, car travel, boring conferences, etc.  We've both come to regard them as constant companions.  About 3 years ago while we were in the Boundary Waters, Erin's rolled off and bounced down a 30 foot cliff into a lake.  She retrieved it and found a 2-3 inch dent but no damage to threads, etc, so she still uses it regularly.  The spot where the dent is doesn't insulate so well any more (you can feel hot/cold through it) so overall it doesn't keep things hot for as long as my undented one does, but this doesn't bother her.

I agree about the "coffee" lid being not at all spill proof, but I do find it handy in the car.  My favorite lid has a metal ring that flips up and down; makes the unit more compact. The ring, though, is noisy in a water bottle cage on a bike; the standard lid wouldn't be.

I drink coffee with cream in it, and if it goes for 8+ hours without a rinse, it can get funky.  Suggestions for funk reduction:  always take a moment to rinse it as soon as you can.  Use a wash cloth or similar when you wash it.  Occasionally remove the silicone gasket in the lid and clean it.  Occasionally let it stand overnight with a bleach/water solution.  Erin drinks tea with no dairy in hers, and doesn't have funk issues.

My only real nit is that an Aeropress is too big to fit on the opening.  So my main morning mug at home and occasionally when I travel is a double-walled Snowpeak 600 mug, which does work with an Aeropress.

Hope this is helpful.
-rcw

[Mark Reimer]

Solution for aeropress! - Use the step-down funnel it comes with. I make coffee in my insulated bottle everyday with an Aeropress. Works perfectly!

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[velomann]

I use the KK bottles all the time now, insulated and uninsulated. My personal favorite is the smallest size 12 oz insulated bottle. It's what I brew into for the Coffee Outside excursions, and I find generally the perfect size for when I'm not sharing coffee. We also have the next two larger sizes that get regular use in my family. And I agree that they mate well with the Iris cages. I also carry the 20oz insulated bottle in my Iris cage, though I haven't done a lot of gravel/trail riding with this set up so can't guarantee a full 20oz won't rattle out. But it seems snug.

I also really really like the Snowpeak double wall titanium mugs. The 300 and 450 have nice lids, but these are's hook on your bike travel thermoses, but carry in your front bag awesomeness. My personal favorite right now - which I hear may be discontinued - is the 200 size without handle. It has a feel in the hand that's about perfect IMHO. Like this: http://snowpeak.com/products/ti-double-h200-stacking-mug-tw-124?variant=671161349

Mike

[Deacon Patrick]

Excellent, Liesl! Thank you for the great report. Yeah, I'm thinking of going with a wire cone/bandanna filter system, which would make the pre-ground coffee system wondrously small and something I would actually take and use. I love the aeropress, but it is on the bulky side for ultra compact (I can't really say ultralight when I'm hauling that firebox around with a hatchet. Grin.).

With abandon,

Patrick

[Liesl]

Mike, thanks for most excellent funnel tip for the Areopress!  And yes, the Snowpeak stacking cups are fantastic (and hard to find and pricey). 

Correction:  ours are the 12 ounce size.  Rarely if ever feel like I need a bigger size and like the more compact size for a backpack, trunksack/keven's bag etc.

Deacon Patrick, I like the wire cone/bandanna model; might try it.  I think when one carries some heavy stuff, it's nice to carry some ultra light stuff too so it all balances out in the wash.

[Bob E]

Patrick,

 

I use the KK 20-oz. insulated bottle; it does tend to fall out of those "standard" bottle cages -- it's bounced along the road a few times and has the dings to show for it -- but it's pretty resilient and it has held up well. In the Iris cage, however, it is very secure -- it hasn't popped out yet over various road and trail surfaces.

 

Bob E

[Shawn Granton]

I've been using Kleen Kanteen for years, both uninsulated for bicycle water bottles and the insulated for a coffee mug (and yes, hate the "coffee mug lid" so I just use the regular screwtop.) I also use Hydro Flask, which are also good. Haven't used them for boiling water, though.

As for bottle cages, I find what works best is...the Kleen Kanteen black plastic bottle cages. Yes, I know, they don't look as "nice" as metal ones, but they don't rattle, and to me, that's what matters more. They are pretty durable, but not as durable as metal. But Kleen Kanteen is good in the warranty dept, and have replaced all the ones I've broke without hesitation.

-Shawn

[Ely Ruth Rodriguez]

Insulated klean kanteen is the bomb.
My wife had one, gave it to me, then I bought her a larger one for xmas. It's really nice and fits in my plastic bottle cage with no rattles.
I usually use metal cages for my plastic bottles.

[Patrick Moore]

Patrick: VO seems to have you covered: http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/mojave-cage.html

 

On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 7:08:39 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:

(1) uninsulated 40 or 64 oz. with velcro on cage using Irish straps to secure it for bikepacking and extra water capacity. Suggestions on wear to strap this beastie?

On the Hunqapillar, this gives me up to 76 oz. for daily rides, 140 oz. capacity for bikepacking (plus a 100 oz bladder if needed, but it’s hard to use and tastes plasticy.)

Thoughts, suggestions?

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

www.OurHolyConception.org

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[john elliott]

I've never cooked with one of these bottles, but if I make a coffee and fill my insulated bottle up to the top and seal it, I have good luck with it being hot for a long time.  At least 8 hours, and if you don't drink half of it, I think it lasts longer.   It would be at least warm the next morning.

They work great on hot days too.  I throw a few ice cubes in and they are still banging around in there on a hot day hours later.  I can usually refill from my uninsulated bottle and reuse the ice.

On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 7:08:39 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Ron Mc]

I dig your firebox Deac - really nice.  

[Peter Adler]

I have no experience riding with Thermos-y bottle,s but I have a lot of experience riding with Thermos-y travel mugs, which seem like a relevant addition to this thread. 

My go-to "riding around with hot coffee" mug is the OXO Good Grips LiquiSeal Travel Mug: Double-walled stainless steel, 14oz, silicone seals to prevent spillage, and a sealed plastic top where the sipping hole opens/closes by clicking a button. The mug fits perfectly into the handlebar-mounted mug holder rings that are readily available (the cheaper single-wall version of this mug was packaged by SOMA as the Morning Rush Coffee Mug/Bike Holder before everyone and his brother started selling the handlebar brackets; SOMA now limits themselves to just the mounting ring, which will clip into the common Cateye mounting clip). $20 full retail.

http://www.amazon.com/OXO-Grips-LiquiSeal-Travel-Stainless/dp/B0001YH1LG%3Fpsc%3D1%26SubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB0001YH1LG

If you're doing something long-range enough to require brewing your own coffee, the Bodum line of 15oz French-press travel mugs also fit the common cup holders. The idea is, the mug is its own French press, with a filter/plunger. You brew in the mug, plunge the grounds to the bottom, then drink the coffee on top. The top doesn't have the slick locking mechanism that the OXO does, because the plunger takes up all the space. Both the plastic and stainless models are double-walled for insulation, but really: Why would you go on the road with plastic, when you could have steel? These run $20-$30, depending on the model.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Abodum%20travel%20press

The one key drawback I've found to the Bodum mugs is that the plunger shaft really isn't long enough to do a full extraction of the grounds, unless you've got a huge amount of grounds in it. The plastic top of the steel plunger fits under a flip-tab when you open up the sipping hole, so the shaft may have been shortened to accommodate that. I suppose that if I had a plastic mug instead of stainless, it would be easier to see if I had enough grounds to solve the problem. I've thought of having a machine shop make me a threaded shaft 1-2cm longer, to see if I get better results; the risk is poking out my eye.

For grinding, Hario makes a variety of smaller packable manual grinders.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_0_19?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=hario+coffee+grinder&sprefix=hair+coffee+grinder%2Caps%2C215&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ahario+coffee+grinder

Peter "I'm a mess if I don't get that coffee in my system" Adler

Berkeley, CA/USA

[Deacon Patrick]

The new Iris cages arrived, are installed, and holy smokes! are they secure and yet easy to access. Snug, rattle free, and interestingly the steel on steel in and out feels good and isn't grating. I trusted all the input I've gotten from folks (including Riv, by web) that the Iris were more secure than the standard. But in person it is quite clear just how secure they are, and rather surprising. The design looks like it should be less secure to my untrained eye. I look forward to not losing my soon to arrive new KK bottles despite brought trails and roads, as well as having a "zero weight" water pot and a "zero weight" insulated mug. Grin.

Thanks to all for your input! I am looking forward to even more multi-use items than I had before. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Chris Chen]

Yeah, they've always worked great for me! Congrats, and it's always nice to have a little bit of Colorado on your bike :)

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[Deacon Patrick]

Replacing King with King, the Colorado ratio didn't shift any. However, judging by the dirt, I've got a lot of Colorado on my Hunqapillar. Plus the heaviest part is Colorado native. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Chris Chen]

The King is dead! Long live The King!

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[Leslie]

I love the King Iris cages.    Regular plastic water bottles, KK's, my Thermos bottles, they hold them all, just fine....

[ted]

Patrick,

Once you get your KK bottles, don't be shy about bending those Iris cages to fine tune the fit. It's certainly not necessary, but I prefer the more tailored fit I get with just a bit of judicious bending. Without it the long tongue like part juts out at an angle instead of laying right along the bottle.

ted

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Ted. Yeah, I put my wives old KK bottle in to test the sturdiness as I rode a freeze/thaw/freeze MUP, so a LOT of jouncing and bouncing. Solid. As. A. Rock. And that's without any fine tuning. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[ted]

Yes they work very well. I suspect the fine tuning is really only cosmetic.

[Roger]

Klean Kanteens are very versatile and durable. My wife and I use them daily, in several ways:

• drinking water around the house in uninsulated bottles
• keeping coffee hot for hours, poured fresh out of the French Press
• holding tea for sipping slowly over an hour's time
  

In addition, I use the pair of an insulated and uninsulated for making coffee while on a ride or camping. I made a caldera-style stove for using the uninsulated as a kettle, and make the coffee, Russ Roca style, in the insulated bottle.

There are a few pictures showing the setup and how everything (except the Trangia stove "puck") stores away in the two bottle cages here.

[Deacon Patrick]

Russ Roca style?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Benedikt]

I use a 16 oz insulated for my coffee on my daily commute most every day. I do use the sippy cup lid with no problems but it needs to be on the seat tube bottle rack or yes it will leak. I also use some of the 27 oz water bottles. Not insulated. Both the 16 oz insulated and the 27 oz uninsulated fit absolutely wonderfully in my King Cage Iris water bottle cages.

I LOVE the King Cage Iris water bottle cage. Regular plastic water bottles fit super snug. It's beautiful, well made. Made in the USA.

On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 7:08:39 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Roger]

Yep. It's got a Youtube (click here) and everything:

[Roger]

On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 7:08:39 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:

...Used the single-walled one as your water boiling pot?

Patrick,
Did you ever try using the Klean Kanteen for boiling? It can be a tippy affair if set on a flat surface stovetop. I found my Trangia plus Clikstand to require a great deal of care: find a flat surface, don't bump it, and then grasp, lift and pour very carefully.

I regularly boil water in mine, but with the sturdiness of a caldera style surround.

What's been your experience?

[Deacon Patrick]

I have not yet, Roger. We have a trip in April, and will test it then. I use a firebox, which holds it up.

With abandon,

Patrick