Ram as a light tourer-your experiences?

[alan lavine]

Hi to All,

As Spring approaches, and summer plans are formulated, I'm thinking how to best use my current fleet.  I have read, and firmly believe, that the Ram could be used for light touring.  I'd love to hear about your experiences with this.  What kind of terrain, your rack/pannier/bags/basket set up, tires, etc.  Pictures would be lovely, as well.  What do you think are reasonable limits in terms of weight?

All and any wisdom is much appreciated...I feel that someone on this list has already done anything I'm even contemplating, so why reinvent the wheel?

Thanks in advance,
Alan

[Kieran J]

I think the Rambouillet is basically a textbook example of a light tourer. Tire clearance with fenders is restricted and most lack mid-fork lowrider eyelets; otherwise, it's pretty great.

The Ram is not some superlight waif - I don't think it would take issue with some baggage attached. 

KJ

[ascpgh]

Alan, I bought my Rambouillet (orange) just for that use, using an invite on a cross country ride as an excuse to move on from my RB-1. Plenty of conversation with Grant et al at Riv HQ.

I convinced the others not to get carried away with the self-supported concept as it would have dictated new bikes and a lot of super lightweight and compact gear to buy. I proposed spending that money on cheap motels and diners across the country so we could mingle among locals rather than be isolated, out at a campsite. 

I headed out with a B-17, SKS fenders, three bottle cages, Carradice Nelson Longflap and a Bagman support under it. Also had the bligatory odometer, battery head and tail lights. More importantly, I headed out the night before meeting my colleagues in Yorktown, VA (My new bike didn't arrive until 4 pm that evening). I ranged probably 18-35 pounds, all rear load on that trip. Bike performed beautifully. In colder, wetter weather I added a bar bag on the front for Riv Rally East in 2012 on the Great Allegheny Passage. I've done that in parts and completely on the same bike. 

Terrain? Straight up and down in Appalachia, flat and long days in the midwest, more hills in MO, disappearing roads, gravel mud and question in SE Kansas...a bit of everything. Since then I've been on snow-covered trails, steep hills along the three rivers here and the very convenient and interconnected rail trails of packed limestone. I rode 28c tires across the country and currently have Continental "32s" which are more like 29 when measured. All good. 

My commuter is a Disc Trucker, specifically for the more lumbering handling giving confidence in the darkness, stoutness for unexpected potholes and bumps, and ability of discs to work in the most unfortunate of winter precipitation (more due tonight). I wouldn't choose it for a spirited trip across several hours or counties, specifically why I bought the new Ram. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 1:19:51 PM UTC-4, alan lavine wrote:

[Dave Johnston]

Andy,
That was a great writeup of the Ram. It is a great versatile bike.
I now feel guilty for under using mine. I have it set up as my "go fast" bike (no fenders, no racks, lower handlebar), but am rarely in the need to go fast so I usually choose something else to ride.

Dave Johnston
Virginia

[dougP]

Alan:

When you say "light touring", that sounds like lodging / restaurant /credit card.  I've done trips like that with 2 panniers plus front bag (food, day use stuff, jacket) and maybe a small saddlebag if I need to carry rain gear or something else I don't want to dig thru the panniers for.  I'll venture that pretty much anything Rivendell has built will handle that service with no worries.  Maybe a Roadeo or a super-light custom would be marginal but all their bikes are so versatile that a couple of bags (say under 30 lbs?) is what they're made for, no worries. 

What I would take a look at is your wheels & tires.  A good set of wheels with plenty of spokes & nice chubby tires are the ticket to touring bliss.  Bike tours are for photos & ice cream, not messing with breakdowns.  For racks look at Nitto, Tubus, something steel & stout. 

Once you get on the road & meet other tourers, you'll see people touring on everything you can imagine.  And having a good time doing it.  Plastic buckets for luggage, old MTBs, dad's old 10 speed, etc.  If you're on any Rivendell, you're better equipped than a lot of people.

dougP

[iamkeith]

I don't have a lot of insight to add to this discussion - mostly interested in reading other responses for my own benefit.  Here are a couple notes though:

1.  Here's Peter White's description and comparison of the Ram and Homer, from when they were both offered and he was a dealer, with specific emphasis on touring capabilities.  I've referenced this before in some other thread, but I still like reading it:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/rambouillet.asp

2.  My Ram was my first Rivendell.  Like Andy,  I bought it to augment my RB-1, specifically to use for light touring.  All things are relative and, compared to that bike, the Ram is really well suited.   As life has happened, I haven't used it quite the way I'd intended.  But I did set it up as something that would work for at least some luxurious credit card touring and have kept it that way.  I've loaded it to the gills for long day rides, family picnic outings and grocery errands, and taken it on a week-long supported tour in this configuration.   Neither I nor the bike has had any complaints whatsoever, no matter how much I load on it.  I'll try to attach a picture below, but basically:

-  I have a HUGE (Caradice Super C)  saddle bag, that could hold a several days worth of clothing and food, and a light bedroll. 

-  I have a medium-sized, high-riding handlebar bag, which I regularly load up with cameras, food, wallet, tools, phone, light, etc.  (This probably doesn't distribute the weight the same or as well as a lower bag like Riv sells would.  I don't know if this is a benefit or a detriment, for this particular bike, but the effect on steering hasn't bothered me - even coming down from an 11,000 ft mountain pass at 50 mph.)

-  I now use fenders and have bottles in all three cage locations.

-  I'm a fairly big guy at over 6'-1" and 200 lbs.

-  I'm still running 28c roughy toughies.  I'd imagine that Jack Browns would work even better, and it sounds like they'd fit but, honestly, it feels so good that I'm reluctant to mess around with it.

But here's the interesting thing:  A couple of  years ago, I got a used 26" All-Rounder, complete with full racks.  I thought I'd want to make THAT my touring bike, and make the Ram more of a go-fast bike.  But after spending lots of time on both, I feel completely the opposite.   The AR is more nimble and quicker, and the Ram is more stable and relaxed.   Every time I get on the Ram, I'm blown away at how steady it is.  (For me, I had to embrace the Rivendell fit philosophy, and set my seat back further than I would have previously, and I think that's critical for this particular bike, since they intentionally made the top tube short.)  So as my kids get older and want to participate, and loaded, self-supported touring becomes a possibility again, the Ram will be the bike I turn to first!  I  do wish it had some rack brazeons on the fork but, once again, maybe I stumbled into the correct setup and would be stupid to change it.   

[dougP]

I just remembered the attached file from way back when, posted either here or on the BOB list.  The author was the admin for the BOB list and uses the Ram as the ideal bike for light touring.  He covers a lot of ground, from bike to clothes to cell phones to etc., etc.  Most excellent info. 

dougP

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 10:19:51 AM UTC-7, alan lavine wrote:

[olof...@gmail.com]

 

 

Just my experience:

I have a custom Rivendell bought shortly before the appearance of the Rambouillet. Very,very like the Ram (I´m sure Grant had the Ram in his head when he designed it). Before I bought my beloved Heron Touring that you can see on the picture I put similar wheels and the same racks on it and went for a two week heavy loaded camping tour. The Riv, which was and is my go-fast with tubulars, smiled gently and said “well, you know I´m not really built for this”, but nevertheless carried me and my stuff – still smiling gently – over roads and trails in the most competent way. Amazing bike. You can do the same on a Ram I´m sure. And anything between. All Riv bikes are surprisingly versatile.

 

Olof Stroh

Uppsala Sweden

Who some time ago had the same Heron for sale on the list. You can still buy it.

 

 

[Tom Goodmann]

Thanks, all, for a discussion that confirms my current effort to buy a Ram frame and fork. I've been looking for a Heron Road, enjoying a Heron Touring model already (though not as carefully built up as yours, Olof Stroh).  I got no response to my replies to a CL post for a 58 Heron Road, but am now after a 60 Ram, getting ready to move on from an RB-T, as I think the Rambouillet will fit me better.  I plan to build it up lightly for longer local rides, anticipating the flexibility that it shares with other Rivs. Now, to close the deal!  --Tom (Miami, FL)

[alan]

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and experiences.  It confirms my belief that the Ram is perfect for my plans.  Can anyone get some Spring to the NE ?

Alan

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Tom Goodmann <tgoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, all, for a discussion that confirms my current effort to buy a Ram frame and fork. I've been looking for a Heron Road, enjoying a Heron Touring model already (though not as carefully built up as yours, Olof Stroh).  I got no response to my replies to a CL post for a 58 Heron Road, but am now after a 60 Ram, getting ready to move on from an RB-T, as I think the Rambouillet will fit me better.  I plan to build it up lightly for longer local rides, anticipating the flexibility that it shares with other Rivs. Now, to close the deal!  --Tom (Miami, FL)

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[Greg J]

Late to the discussion, but my wife and I rode down from San Francisco to Santa Barbara a few years ago, and she was on her Ram. We rode at a leisurely pace, stopping at motels on the way.  As I recall, she had a Riv/Carradice front bag and a set of rear panniers (although could have been a Carradice Nelson). We had no issues, not even a flat, and it was a great trip.  So I would not worry about whether the Ram is an optimal light tourer, though it is close.  At that time, we probably used 28s.

Also, FYI, her early Ram (orange) is now wearing Jack Browns, but no fenders.

Greg

[Patrick Moore]

I just disassembled, cleaned, and packed the Ram frame and discovered for the first time in 2 years that it has a 3d set of water bottle cage braze ons on the underside of the down tube.

As to weight: I used mine largely as a grocery bike, and I know it handles 30 lb in the rear, on a stiff rack -- Fly, in my case -- with aplomb. I've even carried 45 lb in a single rear pannier (bought more heavy stuff than I had planned for) and, while the bike waggled and tended to swerve to the loaded side during transitions from sitting to standing, it was, that apart, surprisingly docile. 

My Ram carried heavy rear loads better than my custom, which has longer chainstays, for what that's worth.

I daresay that with 30 lb evenly distributed in the rear and 10 or 20 lb evenly distributed in front, you'd have a very nice handling tourer.

Of the many, many bikes I've used for heavy rear grocery loads, the Ram is up there with the other one that stands out as exceptional, and it was, oddly enough, a lightweight all 531 1973 Motobecane Grand Record.

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[Anne Paulson]

My son has a Ram. Great bike, but I don't see it handling 50 pounds of
gear for a tour with aplomb, because I don't think 50 pounds of gear
will work well with the 28 mm tires which are the biggest his Ram will
handle.

-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

[Patrick Moore]

Mine (or rather Matt Isaccs's) fits 35s easily with room to spare. Obviously, at a certain point there was a design change.

Besides, I've used nominal 30s, actual 28s (IRC Tandems) for grocery shopping and carried 40 lb many times in addition to my 170 with absolutely no problems. (And my  brother who is at least 40 and possibly 50 lb heavier than I has often ridden 23s off road. And I used to commute and shop on rough pavement on 190 gram 559X23s -- busted rear spokes -- Revolution -- but never a tire. So there.)

That said, I agree that tires wider than 28 mm would be better for 200+ lbs.

[pb]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 1:00:31 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

... I don't think 50 pounds of gear

will work well with the 28 mm tires which are the biggest his Ram will
handle.

???   !!!   ???

I assume that bike must have fenders?  I'm on (fenderless) Ram number 3 (orange 58, blue 60, and now an orange 60).  All of them ran 33c with substantial room left.  I never tried bigger tires, but I would have expected 38c to work, so Anne's comment surprises me.  Maybe I'll see if my new 39c tires, which are installed on another bike, will fit my Ram. 

A year ago or so I rode Eugene -> San Francisco.  The great majority of the fully loaded bikes I saw touring down Hwy 1 were either UJB road bikes, or old mountain bikes, and the riders were all succeeding and having fun and getting on down the road.  Don't overthink it...  just do it.  Having said all of that, I think that Grant thought of the Ram as a rear loader, not a front loader (and the absence of lowrider fittings on the fork bears that out).  Put a rear rack and maybe a small front bag on your Ram, load it up, and go for a tour.  :-)

~pb   

[Anne Paulson]

Yeah, his bike has fenders, but I don't see room for 38s even with no
fenders. Besides, if you're touring with 50 pounds of gear, you
probably also want fenders.

My son is 6'4" and rides like an elephant. The Clem will be a good bike for him.

[pb]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 1:49:55 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

...if you're touring with 50 pounds of gear, you
probably also want fenders.

Maybe so, but the OP referred to "light touring".  Fifty pounds of gear, in my world, is not light touring.

Anyhoo....  I hope Alan will put a rack on the back of his Ram and go touring.  I think that going for a tour is preferable to thinking about what bike should be used to go for a tour. 

~pb 

[lungimsam]

I like these Ram threads.

When I first started scouting RBW models to buy, I thought the Blue Rams were the most beautiful. Bleriots, too. Never had a Ram. I saw one NIB green on ebay once about three years ago.

An NIB Blue 54 would be great.

[alan]

I'll drink to that....

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[Fullylugged]

The Mark's rack with P clamps lets you put a small bag on the front of a Ram. It's really not designed for a heavy bag so a bar tube is usually what I put there. It's long chainstays and low BB make it a comfy rider and it has very stable handling. A very good all day light tourer or brevet bike. Mine has 12k miles on it and I rode it in the hills of NW GA twice this week.