Should it stay or should it go?

[Mike K.]

Hi gang,

Well, I have some decision-making to do involving current bike arrangement. I have two bikes, but need to get rid of one to make room for a new one. I am getting a Surly Cross Check (would spring for a Sam, but unfortunately, can't afford it, now matter how I slice the pie).

My current bikes are both Centurions. One is an Accordo RS set up as a single speed, Tange Infinity tubing. The other is a Dave Scott Master, 14-speed with Shimano 600 group and Champion 1 tubing.

I have been thinking about just keeping the Dave Scott as is for group riding. I have a Brooks on it and could get a small saddle bag for tools, a small jacket, patch kit, etc. BUT, the top tube has a small dent in it. I am probably like the 4th or 5th owner, if not further down the line. If it was a "perfect" frame I probably wouldn't even consider discontinuing it in my line up. 

The other option is to put the Shimano 600 group on the Accordo and use that as my roadie, then sell all the single speed parts off of it to help buy the Surly and a few parts I still need. Only problem with that is I would have the other frame to sell, and I doubt it would sell as a standalone frame/fork with a dented top tube. Otherwise, that Dave Scott is responsive and really fun to ride. I had the Accordo set up as a road bike and it just didn't have the zip of it's big brother. The Accordo is a bit better looking, though, too. That sweet red paint job with white head tube and seat tube. The Dave Scott is a white with the funny lightning-storm graphics on the fork.

I like the Accordo a lot, and it has rear braze on for a rack, as well as a spot for a frame pump (Zefal #4 on the way!), but those would likely go on the Cross Check anyway.

I guess in the end, either one would leave me with a road bike with the parts I already have. I'm just sort of looking for a few more factors to consider to help me make the decision.

Thanks, all.

- Mike in Austin

[Aaron Young]

Hi Mike,

I don't know if I can help in making your decision, but I DO have a couple thoughts. 

After writing this I figured a summary might be helpful. :) Here's the short version: 1. Ride the snot out of that Dave Scott regardless if the tube is bent or not (in rhyme even!). 2. Skip the cross check and save, save, save for a Sam H (no rhyme).  

First, a dented top tube isn't necessarily an end of life issue for a good steel bike.  I still ride (and consider an all-time favorite type bike) a 1985 Trek 620 that was in an accident before I bought it. Both the down and top tubes are bent downward from the impact of the front wheel hitting something (a dog was the story I was told).  I didn't notice the dents before buying it and was dismayed to say the least when I finally noticed the bent tubes while cleaning it up at home.  Since the bike was bent I felt fine riding it year round including through four upstate NY winters with salty roads.  If it weren't bent I would likely have babied it and not ridden it as much.  So, just ride that Dave Scott if you like the way it fits and rolls.  Don't worry about the dent.  Put a top tube protector over it so you forget about it.  But inspect it only occasionally to make sure it's not getting worse or leading to tube fatigue and failure.  

As for the Cross Check vs Sam H dilemma, is it possible to hold off on that new bike purchase while you save enough to get a Sam?  The Cross check is a great bike, but it's a different bike than a Sam in a lot of ways.  I bought my Sam used off this list for a very reasonable price.  Maybe wait for one to pop up on the list?  In any case, Be patient and save for what you really want.  You will be happier in the long term.  

Just my opinions at no charge. Of course they are worth just about what you paid for them.  :)

Good luck,

Aaron Young

The Dalles, OR

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[Mike K.]

Aaron,

I don't have much time to save. I have just about enough in the Paypal account to buy the CC frame right now, and all the parts I need sitting at home that I took off my old Cannondale that was too small for me. 

I could put more money into a Sam, but we're saving to buy our first house in the spring, so I don't want to put extra money into a bike that could go to the down payment. You know? I would love the Sam, and hope to get one in the future. I was thinking I could get the Surly now, use it for a few years, then when I have the cash for the Sam (any leftovers from Riv or one off the list), get the Sam and sell the Cross Check. I hear what you're saying about them being different bikes, and I totally agree, but as far as doing what I'm looking for, the CC works. It even takes canti brakes, which I would prefer over sidepull. To be totally honest, I would rather have the Hunq than the Sam, especially if I have the Centurion as a road bike, so that prolongs the saving period due to the extra cost. 

I was smitten with the Hunq from the first time I saw it, maybe it's the head badge, who knows, but that's the ultimate bike for me. For now, though, I need something that can take a load, do day trips, handle camping, etc., and the Cross Check certainly can do all that.

- Mike

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[Bill Lindsay]

Adding to what Aaron said, it is a gargantuan bummer when you dent a bike you don't want to keep.  A top tube dent does nothing to the performance of the bike, but probably cuts its resale value in half.  It sucks.  Ask me how I know.  :-(

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[Christopher Johnson]

Mike,

I have a Cross Check that I use as my 'do everything' (lock-to-things/commute/dirt/recreational road) bike.  I live in a very metropolitan area (I do mostly road riding), and I ride 32 mm gatorskins with a 1x8 drivetrain.  I also keep a nice old road bike for go-fast rides.

Based on my experience, I recommend one of two options:

1) My setup.  Keep the Iron Man for go-fast road rides; it's a nice road bike, dent and all.  Set up the Cross Check so that it goes anywhere, but is best suited for the places you spend the most time riding. 

2) Get an extra wheelset or two to throw on the Cross Check when you want to radically change how it rides.  Depending on how picky you are, and how many wheelsets you want to own, you can use the bike for a lot of extreme riding situations (I did a 50 mile road ride one weekend, and 30 mile trail/single track ride the next; I used some knobbly tires for the trail ride).  Keep the Accordo as a grocery-getter that you can park anywhere, and backup bike that you can ride if the Surly needs work done.

Hope you enjoy the new bike,

- Chris

[dougP]

Mike:

I have a late 80s Panasonic DX-5000 that is indistinguishable from a Dave Scott Centurion (a friend has the Centurion & we compared).  My Panasonic has a dented top tube from some rough handling by a shipper.  This happened sometime back in the 90s.  It has gone thousands of miles "as is" and I could not detect any change.  Functionally, the dent is a non-issue.  As others have pointed out, it is an issue for a buyer.  It will be a question mark and a potential buyer can always wait until another rolls along. 

As to the rack issue, I had rear rack eyelets added to my Panasonic.  It's no touring bike but having the rack option is useful.  Food for thought.

dougP

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 9:56:45 AM UTC-7, Mike K. wrote:

[hsmitham]

Mike,

Aaron gives some great advice. The only thing I'd add is perhaps wait to see what Grant and Company come up with in regards to this new "Clem Smith Jr" complete bike.  

Lastly, this is easier said then done but what the heck...save, save, save for that dream bike. If you squirrel away a bit every pay check you'll be there in no time! Besides it sounds like you have a sweet bike to ride right now. Just my .02.

~Hugh

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 9:56:45 AM UTC-7, Mike K. wrote:

[Aaron Young]

Hmm, waiting for Clem Smith, Jr to show up is a great idea.  What's the time frame on that though? Anyone know?

That's interesting to hear about the Panasonic-Centurion connection.  I guess the Panasonic factories must have made bikes for quite a few brands.  I have a friend that has a mid 80's Scwhinn Traveler that was apparently made by Panasonic, too.  She calls it a "Schwinasonic".  Or maybe it's Schwinnasonic?  In any case, it too is a great bike just like that Dave Scott. 

Btw, the very first bike I purchased when I began to be more serious about riding was a Centurion Accordo.  Black paint and cool/dorky 80's graphics.  Centurions are great!

Aaron Young

The Dalles, OR

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[dougP]

Aaron:

For an update on Clem Smith, Jr. check today's BLUG.  They've got some prototypes they are tinkering with.  But they want to keep messing around with them so they are not for sale (yet).  So it's getting close.  I second Hugh's suggestion to be patient & save up.  Clem Smith, Jr is supposed to roll out the door in the $1,500 range, so if you're looking at a built up Cross Check you're most of the way there. 

dougP

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[Mike K.]

Thanks, everyone. I think  you've helped me decide what I was pretty sure I was going to do anyway. I'll keep the Dave Scott and put a small saddle bag on it for taking lunch and a jacket to work, then slowly part out the single-speed components and frame to boost the ol' Paypal account, and just slowly save for a Riv. It's what I want to do anyway.

Only problem for me with the Clem Smith is that I have pretty much all the components I want on a finished bike, so I really just need a frame. From the sound of things, the Clem won't be offered as a frame/fork, but who knows.

I have been riding the Dave Scott these last few days, and it's been glorious. We just got a good cold-front in Austin, so the morning temp is in the high 50's/low 60's. Couldn't ask for better weather right now. Only thing I may need to do in the not too distant future is get a saddle-bag support.

Anyway, if anyone has more thoughts, feel free to send them to me. Otherwise, I feel good about this decision. It's what I wanted to do, but felt hesitant to make the call in case there was something I hadn't thought about.

- Mike

[Hugh Smitham]

Hey Mike,

Glad to hear we helped some. I bought my Rivendell's post house purchase. Yeah being an adult has it's draw backs! 

Interesting, Austin is making news these day's as the most over-priced Real Estate market in the country?? It's supposedly even higher than the pre 2006 prices.  Go figure. I remember thinking if I lived in Texas Austin would be my choice! It seems great minds think alike ;-)

Back to bikes, I think it's likely that when your ready to plunk down the coin for a bike a Hungapillar will materialize. In the mean time good luck on the house purchase and I'll look forward to seeing the Hung pictures in due time.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

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[Mike K.]

Yeah, real estate is almost frighteningly expensive, but if we can make it happen, owning a house next year will be cheaper month over month than renting. Because the only thing growing faster than the number of people moving to Austin is the number of people trying to rent apartments and houses.

 

But we are planning on being here for a while, so it's time to make the investment. It's still reasonable in some parts of town, so it's going to be a matter of working with the realtor to find something near work. We share a car, and my bike is how I get to work. It's worked out well the last 4 years, so I don't want to buy another car if I can help it. Would much rather spend a little more on a house to live closer to work.

Thanks again! And I"ll post pictures once I have my hands on that dream bike.

- Mike 

[Dan A]

I may be the lone dissenter, but I think the cross-check is a great bike especially for the price. While the Rivendell might win on aesthetics in my opinion the Surly matches up well in all other respects. While I love my Quickbeam my Cross Check gets a lot more miles.

Dan Abelson

[Aaron Young]

Hi Dan,

I don't think anyone is bagging on the Surly.  In fact I would be happy to ride one myself.  My point is just that the Cross Check is a different bike than the Sam H.  Not better or worse, just different.  The CC is a cyclocross bike with extra braze ons, while the Sam H is probably closer to a sport touring bike of the mid 1980's. In my understanding at least.  If one wants what is offered by the Sam H, a CC might not live up to one's hopes.  

Depending on how they are set up a Quickbeam and Cross Check might be very different bikes as well, so perhaps not the most useful comparison.  It's good to hear support for the Surly, though.  

Really when it comes down to it the most important thing is not which name is on the frame, but that we are out riding.  Just Ride, right?

-Aaron Young

The Dalles, OR

On Friday, October 3, 2014, Dan A <d...@abelsons.net> wrote:

I may be the lone dissenter, but I think the cross-check is a great bike especially for the price. While the Rivendell might win on aesthetics in my opinion the Surly matches up well in all other respects. While I love my Quickbeam my Cross Check gets a lot more miles.

Dan Abelson

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[hangtownmatt]

Mike,

There's nothing wrong with the Surly. I think it is a great choice. Just be sure it fits.  I test rode the CC several times over a period of years.  I really wanted it to be the one, but it just never felt right.  I was always too stretched. Granted modifications can be made, but my Sam on the other hand, in an even larger frame size,  feels right with with drops and upright bars. It is very versatile.

I'll assume you are relatively young since you are buying your first house.  I'll also assume you are married.  If kids are in the future, combined with a new house, I can tell you from experience that you will probably never have more money than you do now.  Make sure you get a frame you can evolve/live with.  It might be a while before you get another chance.

Matt

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 9:56:45 AM UTC-7, Mike K. wrote:

[Tony DeFilippo]

If the CC is your placeholder for a Hunq have you looked at the VO Camargue? (http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/frames/camargue-frameset.html)

I only throw it out as it clearly is assume at the kind of heavy duty loaded trail rides the Hunq excels at. The CC is obviously great to, I found one on clist for a killer price when my Univega Metroprix was my only bike (only bike is such a funny concept there days!). Anyway I'd probably still have it if it wasn't several sized to small.

Keep us posted on the purchase and build!

Tony