Quickbeam Tire and Gearing Recommendations

[Deacon Patrick]

I’ve pulled the trigger on a beautiful silver Quickbeam, so Lord willing and the creek don’t rise it should be here in a few weeks. I have a few questions as I gear up for her arrival...

Knobbie Tire:

Talking with Riv., they suggest I can go with up to a 40mm knobbie and still be able to swap rings in front. I’ll be on dirt roads and trails mostly, with some unavoidable sections of pavement. What do you all recommend? Both size and specific tire.

Gearing:

I plan on riding the stock gearing first, but what do you all recommend here for essentially a single speed cyclocross setup? Obviously, I’ll have to become a stronger rider, and have already started that on my rides by not shifting down as much. I did well on today’s 10 mile ride in 36/21, and my understanding is the low ring is 32, so possibly a Surly dingle cog, 17/21? I heard if you have even teeth up front you should have even teeth in the back, is that true?

Thanks! The bike therapy continues! 

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

www.OurHolyConception.org

[Shoji Takahashi]

Happy almost-new-bike day, Patrick.

RE: Gearing, AASHTA: http://sheldonbrown.com/chain-life.html

TL;DR-- go even/even teeth. But don't worry about it too much, either.

If you're riding fixed, you may want to calculate skid patches. (You're riding SS or fixed for the trail?)

Happy riding,

shoji

[Deacon Patrick]

Trail: definitely SS. Dirt road, I will likely play with fixed. Dos Enos free hubs by White Industries look intriguing.

[Mike Williams]

Ive got a QB and Ive never known about the even/ even gearing. Hmmm.   My gearing is 38/17 ( good for SF hills) for road and 32/19 fo dirt,  couldnt be happier, Im also lucky enough to have skinny-ish rims that allow me to run BG RnRs.  Hope this helps Patrick,  youre gonna love it!   -Mike

Sent from my iPhone

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[M D Smith]

On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:59:07 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

Trail: definitely SS. Dirt road, I will likely play with fixed. Dos Enos free hubs by White Industries look intriguing.

To which I reply:

Patrick-  Congrats on the forthcoming new steed!

I am very interested in hearing about your potential experimentation with riding fixed, considering your vertiginous condition.  It always takes me a minute or two for my legs to make the transition from riding free to fixed and I'm curious how it works out for you.  I spent a few years commuting exclusively on a fixed Trek.  Whenever I pulled the All 'Rounder (derailer bike) it always felt to me like something was dragging or rubbing in the drivetrain, slowing it (and me) down until my brain accustomed itself to the lack of inertia "pulling" my feet over the tops of the pedals.

Keep us posted-  (like I have to tell *you* that...)  I'm looking forward to seeing some nice shots in the high country!

Cheers- Mike in much less picturesque Htfd, CT

[djbardwil]

Congratulations on the new Quickbeam.  

Some folks told me when I bought mine in February that it might become my favorite ride and it certainly has become that.  My gearing is for (mostly) flat roads with an occasional hill and I settled on a 46t ring and an 18t White Industries freewheel equating to 66" gearing.  While that won't cut it for your style of riding, the thing to consider is the means of finding good gearing.  I used my 24 speed Atlantis and started with the top ring (46t) and worked to find the best all around rear cog (18t) and tried a ride, no shifting allowed, until I found the best gearing for the use I had in mind.  I also have a fixed gear on the flip flop hub at 19t - I tried it briefly and it is definitely different.  I put it back to the 18t freewheel and there it remains for now.

It is an awesome change of pace - enjoy it!

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, all! I'm excited.

DJ: Your description is exactly the "poser ss" I tested out today, and it went well enough. I may settle on 28/36 front rings with 18/20 rear.  But I will tray the default setup first to learn from a baseline.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Hudson Doerge]

On my simpleone I run 40x18 for general loaded commuting. If I were riding further and on more dirt I'd run a slightly lower gear. For tires I run marathon supremes with fenders, but for dirt I'd run either clement xplors or rock n roads if they fit, which I have seen fit on another simpleone.

[stonehog]

Clement x'plor mso - great 40ish knobby.

Brian Hanson
Seattle, Wa

[Pondero]

Deacon, congrats on the new bike!  It is pleasing to think about another able to experience Quickbeam joy.  It's just a hunch, but my guess is that you'll enjoy the fixed gear experiement.

[Philip Williamson]

Yes! Congratulations! I heartily recommend the the Surly dingle cog. I don't know if you have lockring threading on your rear hub, but I've used the "rotafix" method for years on my stock QB free/free wheels. If that sounds iffy, don't do it. Avoid cheap cogs; I've been happy with Surly, Dura-Ace and EAI. If it doesn't have a name, I won't use it; I've found cheap cogs to be a false economy.

White Freewheels are reputed to be much much longer lived than Shimano, but they might have a louder, King-like coasting buzz. The one I encountered years ago did, but it don't recall if the trials version I rode around the block a few weeks ago did or not. Mostly I was marveling at the Knard tire on that bike... Maybe people here can weigh in on the loudness of WI freewheels? My freewheel experience is limited to having two Shimano FWs used for a couple of rides and then die of neglect (literally) on the flip side of two different wheels.

I'm interested in what you find for knobbies. I used Panaracer Smokes, with the big side knobs cut off, but I'd go with normal narrower cyclocross tires if I set up a knobby wheelset now. I'm kind of re-centering from my tire greed, and being happier with narrower tires. I think the silver QBs have a little more clearance at the chainstays, but maxing out tire width of knobbies makes gear changes harder to plan and execute. Those MSOs look nice, with the knibbly tread, but I've never ridden them.

I've never heard about an even/even tooth count rule. 40/32 (and 42, and 44) with a 15t and a 17/21 dingle have made me happy for years.

I just love Quickbeams and everything about them! Are you putting albastaches on them? Again, congratulations!

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Philip Williamson]

Well dang! I did read that, many years ago. Interesting. Has anyone here done that? It seems like it ups the fussiness factor by 4 or 5. Now I want to do it!
"Honey, yes these Herse cranks, White freewheels and stainless chain cost a lot NOW, but they'll last forever! Plus I need a grinding wheel."

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, all! I'm excited to have a go-fast bike and looking forward to how both bikes will inform my riding for the other. 

It comes with the stock 18t Shimano freewheel and a new White Industries 17t freewheel. The flip-flop hub is freewheel on both sides, built on a 36 spoke Phil hub (I like the 36 spokes for what I do!). My current plan after spending way too much time on this is:

-- Try the WI freewheel. If I like it, possibly eventually get a Dos Enos 16/19.

-- Put a Dingle Cog 17/21 on the flip side. I don't plan on backpedal braking. (Philip, what is the "rotofix" method? Just snug it up by riding?). I've also wondered about adding a regular thread lock ring (if such a thing exists) as two nuts on a same thread have a locking effect. But that's a solution looking for a problem at this point. That will give a wide range with the 32/40 rings, but if I need to lower the range (but not narrow it), I can swap to a 30 or 28 and just not use the cross chain combos.

-- Brian -- Great to hear on the MSO's. They are at the top of my list. Second is the Speeds from Rivendell, but I'd like something a bit more aggressive for what I do.

-- Try the stock drop bars and see how I like them. Shift to Albastache if need be. (I may have to choose between the Dos Enos and Albastache till the budget allows!).

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Rotafixing: http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm

That looks like a great method since I won't be skid stopping (I have brakes, after all). Thanks, Philip!

With abandon,

Patrick

[Philip Williamson]

Ha! I just grabbed that link for you! 

I've used the rotafix method to remove a fixed cog that broke a shop's chainwhip, too. If you do install a cog this way, just put it on "tight," don't go "really tight" or "infinitely tight." 

I tried a BB ring as a jam nut, and it didn't work, but I've heard it works for other people. 

I slow down by pedaling slower, but I brake with brakes. Riding fixed with kids is great, if they tend to weave in front of you, or brake erratically. You just slow down without even realizing it. 

Also, I've found that a single drivetrain allows a higher "comfortable" gear than simply not shifting a derailleur'd bike. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

[Deacon Patrick]

Do you find this true of SS and fixed, or just fixed (due to wheel inertia pushing you along)?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Eric Norris]

In my experience, it's partly because you're stuck with that one gear. Like it or lump it.

--Eric N

www.CampyOnly.com

CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com

Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

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[Doug Litchfield]

Hello Patrick,

Wishing many happy miles on your new ride.

Were it I, I would go with a lower tooth count on the fixed side, with slightly higher  on the free side.

To me it feels easier to push a higher gear fixed.

And use the freewheel side for the rough stuff or the "spent" ride out/home!

In my experience the nine speed chain Surly suggests does not play well with the WI freewheels.

For a bike that was doing roughly what you propose, the setup I finally landed on was 42/40 in front and 17/19t dingle with a Dicta(?) 20t freewheel on the flip.... A gear to get there, a couple of choices to ride there, and a gear to drag my tired carcass home.

Yup, I walked up some hills but this spread worked for me.

Now the bike sports a Sturmey S3X.

I concur with Phillip, as I got stronger the free side went untouched for years!

Don't forget to factor dropout length in your tooth calculations..

Doug Litchfield

Rock Springs, WY

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[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks for the details, Dave. I presume that's supposed to be 32/40 in the front? Can an 8-speed chain be run on the Dingle Cog and Dos Enos happily?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Doug Litchfield]

?

....Dave's not here.

Au contrair mon ami!

42 it was.

The SRAM 8 sp. chain works okay.

I recall, somewhere on the interwebs, a blogger saying they used 1/8th inch chain with the Dingle, I seriously doubt that would work.

I stuck with the 9sp chain. No worries.

Pulled the WI freewheel and replaced with an ACS not Dicta freewheel.

Longevity? You can buy a lot of ACS freewheels for the price of the WI ones.

And it hardly got used!

Doug

[cyclotourist]

White's are louder than Shimano, but not overly so. I don't notice it unless I'm consciously looking for the noise. The chain on a single speed bouncing around make a lot more annoying noise IMHO.

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Deacon Patrick]

Och! I'm sorry, Doug.Thank you, for the great details!

I'll write Surly and WI and ask what chains work with their stuff and report back.

How is the SX3 working for you? How much use, on what type of roads/trails?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Doug,

White Industries said 8 speed is their recommended, but 9 works fine also, and 1/8 works if I'm confident in my chain line. I'm curious, though, did you try WI Eno freewheel with a 9-speed and it didn't work? Surly apparently doesn't answer phones, but I've an email into them.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Coconutbill]

Congrats, Deacon!

 that's one of my favourite looking bikes out there. Curious, are you going with your old Albatross bars ? 

[Deacon Patrick]

No, I'll be trying the noodles that come with it and see how I like them for the type of riding I do, and if not going with Albastache. It's a 66 cm, so the fit is nearly identical on paper to my Hunqapillar, with identical stand over height and TT length, so I've got a good reference for how it will fit already. I'll just have a bit less seat post showing because of the 2˚ upslope vs. 6˚ on the Hunqapillar.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

After email Grant and talking with Mark and Kevin at Rivendell today I've decided on a more conservative approach to fixed gear:

-- Get used to the bike and its pedal clearance with SS.

-- Try fixed after a while, once I know pedal clearance will work where I'm riding.

Basic message from both of them is: The QB is designed as a SS bike, not a fixed. If it was designed as a fixed, especially for rougher terrain, it would have bigger tires and higher BB to prevent pedal crashes in turns and on rocks/roots, etc.

While I'm curious to test how fixed and vertigo get along, I want to do so as safely as possible. This seems the prudent way to accomplish this.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Patrick Moore]

That sounds a very reasonable approach to me, given the QB's lower bb. Note that if you decide you like fixed off road, nice mtbs from the immediately pre suspension era are still relatively available and cheap, and with an ENO hub'd wheel and some 60 mm tires, you'd be all set. One of the nicest handling (of its kind, of course) bikes that I've owned is that very early '90s Diamond Back Axis Team that I blather on about so much, converted to fixed with Eno hub and sporting 60 mm Big Apples, a 64" gear, and Noodles.

Tho' I have to admit that while I love ss off road, I hated fixed off road.

As for gearing, you may well find that you develop a penchant for gears higher than you now anticipate. I know I'd rather stand, or walk, than twiddle futilely and despairingly in too low a gear on the flats. 

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Patrick Moore

Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

[Deacon Patrick]

I've been riding various short rides and their hills in "poser ss mode" that are shorter than many of the hills I ride on trails (that are still snow locked, so inaccessible), so they are a good analog for at least benchmarking where I am at the moment. My test gear is 46.8" (36-21) and I'm climbing them but barely (that no doubt will improve as I strengthen and learn). They're about as steep but shorter as the trails I ride. Sheldon recommends 35 inches for mountain biking SS, so I'm also using that as a benchmark, but my initial gearing will be:

32/40 front

17, 20/22 rear

That's a low of 39.7" and a high of 64.3. That should give me a lot of options for learning on this highly varied terrain around here, but I'm always open to suggestions. When I get stronger I can always reassess. But the reality also is you can only go so fast on the stuff I ride due to its technical nature, especially with 40mm tires.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

For comparison, my low gear on my Hunqapillar is 19.5", though I now have an 18.4" low since switching to a 9-speed cassette (but I'll likely not use that much -- I switched cassette to lower the range of the middle ring, a conversion which worked spectacularly). But I load the Hunqapillar down for all day or overnight and multi-day trips, which will no doubt be easier after riding the QB. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Wow. Just wow. I rode a loop with downhill single track after a hearty 8 mile climb in "poser SS mode" in one of my future middle gears on the QB: 32-17. I started off just figuring I'll do my usual 10 mile connector route to Woodland Park and back, but felt great so headed up Rampart to the top of Lovell Gulch. Some good hearty standing to climb for the last couple miles. Naturally the hardest was nearest the top. Grin.

Additional things I tested:

-- Single track climbing. Though short, it told me that I'll easily handle what I need to with 32-22 (for long technical climbs), and most of what I'll be doing with 32-18.

-- Fixed likely makes no sense on the trails, as there are just too many places that my pedals bashed in my brief testing on the downhill.

-- It's stunning how quickly the legs get used to climbing in lower gears when the mind tells them "this is all we've got." No doubt the weighted slo-mo rock squats I started doing a month ago help significantly as well. But Grant is right (shocker!) -- I really do shift way too much and I, at least, am far wimpier for it.

So my new gearing plan is to copy David Cyclotourist's 16-18 Dos Eno and 22 non-sealed freewheel. On a more esoteric note...

It was awesome! I loved it. Simpler. More like running. On a bike. Far easier to enter the contemplative. Awesome!

With wild grinning anticipatory abandon,

Patrick

[Patrick Moore]

To paraphrase Saint Sheldon: "Shifting is a pernicious habit."* Your ride description makes me want to resurrect a ss off roader.

*Originally: "Coasting is a pernicious habit."

-- 

[cyclotourist]

Ahhh... blush...

I have been trying to ride my QB a lot more recently. Even on rides I could benefit from multiple gears on. I still shift it plenty between the 16 & 18 cogs, and occasionally between the 40 and 32 chainwheels, but hardly ever mess with the 22T freewheel. If I really start putting some hours on it, I could see switching to just a 16T freewheel in back, which would let me shorten up my chain by a couple links and get my rear stay theoretical at 430mm. It's all about what you can get used to!

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal