Elephant National Park Explorer

[Montclair BobbyB]

http://www.elephantbikes.com/stock/

Interesting bike... Rivish in several ways, skinny tubing, really cool fork (reminds me of Wes Willits' Wow fork) and it accepts disc brakes!!!!

Stretching the possibilities...

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Very cool looking bike, Bobby.

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[Tony DeFilippo]

It's an exciting looking bike, makes you think of the places you could go.

I've not really felt the need for disc brakes so far but they did it w/out messing up the aesthetics of the bike and I know it's a big deal to some.  Does the super long, housed run of the RD cable impact shifting performance in any way?  I haven't snagged my shift cables on the DT so far (knock on wood) but I suppose I haven't done the kind of extreme terrain this bike was intended for.  Bottom line is that when I look at this bike, once the 'shiny-new-thing' wave passes I say... my Bombadil could DEFINITELY do that!  :)

I think the NFE strikes a strong chord with me to, though my first thought w/ that label is my not so successful attempt to go lumberjacking with my Saluki last summer!

[Joe Broach]

Hi Tony,

The full housing runs are mostly about keeping grit and grime out of cables. They also allow for hydraulic lines if one goes that route for braking. An advantage of the top tube cable routing on a front loader like this is a clear downtube to grab, the best point for lifting a front-heavy bike over obstacles.

No doubt your Bomba is ready to E the NFs, too! The mission statements are a little different, though. The stock NFE has the same tubing as my Romulus (and, I think similar to the Hilsen in the current lineup, amybe a notch lighter than your Saluki even). It's not a full on tourer like the stouter Rivs. I'm curious whether the disc fork is as smooth as the one on my Rom, expect it to be a little harsher.

I got in on the initial run but haven't gotten to build mine yet. Eight years in the Pac NW has convinced me that discs are worth a try. A neat advantage is the ability to try a 26" wheelset with the Rat Trap Pass tires when they come out.

Best,

joe broach

pdx or 

[Hudson Doerge]

I absolutely love my first batch NFE. The tubing is perfect for my weight, uses, and riding style. The fork is more supple than my previous rawland rsogn and my simpleone, but all things aren't equal so it's pretty hard to say with certainty. As I understand it, it's possible to make a supple disc fork, but very difficult in a production setting. Glen had special mounts machined locally to keep the fork as compliant as possible. All I really know is that the bike rides wonderfully and was a killer value for a domestically made frame. Highly recommend.

Hudson in atx.

[Mark Reimer]

There were a ton of the NFE on the Oregon Outback and I have to admit I was envious. Many were setup just like I had my Atlantis - front panniers, rando boxy bag, and a saddle bag. They can fit 2.35 knobbies, or 42 slicks with fenders. On the wet descents with the loaded bike, I definitely wanted their disc brakes. I have Paul touring canti's with kool stop salmon and they were all but useless when we got up to 70km/h with wet rims. The finish on them is very good, and they're very light. I'm actually planning on buying one next season, but keeping the Atlantis for the real heavy lifting. 

[ascpgh]

I tried my own hand on that format ten years ago:

Always a fan of under biking and getting out in the woods via the miles of great and lonely access roads.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Daniel Jackson]

Anybody out there have an XL Elephant? If so, might you report the standover?

Thanks much,

D.

[Jim Bronson]

I don't know what the XL standover is but the Elephant folks did offer to work with me on a full custom NFE frame since the stock sizes in their production run will not fit me.  I promised not to divulge any specifics so I won't, but I would recommend calling or emailing them and talking to them about it.

I didn't end up getting the frame built, but it wasn't due to a lack of want - the reasons were primarily financial on my side.  I ended up buying that 68 Redwood that was on eBay a while ago - but the Redwood is definitely more of a compromise for the intended task than the NFE would have been.

I would contact them and see if they will work with you, if you don't think the stock XL would fit.  Nice folks.

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Dan]

I'd be interested in folks' experience with the XL size too. This frame is really really close to my ideal; recently I've even come to think discs are a good idea on this type of bike.  At this point my biggest hesitation is the wheel size, even though I thought the wheels on my 29er felt TOO big, 650B still scares me for some reason.

Dan

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/02/2015 12:56 PM, Dan wrote:
> I'd be interested in folks' experience with the XL size too. This
> frame is really really close to my ideal; recently I've even come to
> think discs are a good idea on this type of bike. At this point my
> biggest hesitation is the wheel size, even though I thought the wheels
> on my 29er felt TOO big, 650B still scares me for some reason.

You should try to figure out what exactly frightens you about 650B.
Perhaps trying to enumerate them might help you decide one way or the other.

[Mike Shaljian]

For this price you can get more bike than you'd ever know what to do with in the Jones Plus. 2.1" max tire seems awfully limiting to me when 3" tires give you the ability to do real mountain biking and fly down loose gravel descents with confidence. Pretty MUSA bike though!

[Anne Paulson]

Speaking of the Jones Plus, how short can a person be and still fit
it? It looks like a big for tall people, even in the smaller size.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Mike Shaljian <mikesh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For this price you can get more bike than you'd ever know what to do with in the Jones Plus. 2.1" max tire seems awfully limiting to me when 3" tires give you the ability to do real mountain biking and fly down loose gravel descents with confidence. Pretty MUSA bike though!
>

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-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

[Mike Shaljian]

I consulted a friend of mine who is 5'6.5" and she is very happy with the Jones Plus. To my surprise, she even maxxed out the 250mm seatpost I recommended (and she's running a 70mm, 0º rise stem, as per Jeff's recc.). She hasn't ridden it with 29+ tires yet, but on Super Motos she is more than comfortable with the standover height, and I expect she'll be fine with 3" tires. It seems like 5'6" is the lower height limit, depending on proportions.

[Anne Paulson]

In the pics the Jones Plus looks huge, but the standover height for
the smaller model is 31", which is barely bigger than the standover
height for my Surly Krampus in size small.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Mike Shaljian <mikesh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I consulted a friend of mine who is 5'6.5" and she is very happy with the Jones Plus. To my surprise, she even maxxed out the 250mm seatpost I recommended (and she's running a 70mm, 0º rise stem, as per Jeff's recc.). She hasn't ridden it with 29+ tires yet, but on Super Motos she is more than comfortable with the standover height, and I expect she'll be fine with 3" tires. It seems like 5'6" is the lower height limit, depending on proportions.
>

[Mike Shaljian]

Yeah, I think one of the big features of Jeff's geometry is that the 24" or 25" ETT models can fit basically anyone from 5'6 - 6'6, given different seatpost/stem combinations. He also makes a point that the 24" Plus starts with the same reach as a small (I think) ECR, and you just go from there with changing the components to optimize fit. I can't conceive of a more versatile and fun bike, the hype you see about Jones bikes on the web is very real in practice.

[Clayton.sf]

I have a standard steel Jones Diamond. It is nothing short of amazing. Would love to have a plus too.

[Christian]

Hi All, 

Let's see if I can link the NFE, the Jones, and Rivendell sufficiently to make this on topic. I sold my Hunqapillar to fund my Jones. I really liked the Hunq, but I love the Jones. Very different bikes so not really fair to compare, but for my purposes the Jones is the better option. I use it mostly for singletrack and have put in up to 9 hour trail rides on it. It's an exceptional bike. But it's not the same thing as the NFE (not that Mike was saying this explicitly) so I don't think I'd choose one or the other for similar purposes.   

So, I will have both. 

I really loved my Terraferma, but always felt the fit was slightly off. I'd become a convert to 650B, however, and so when I learned of the NFE I made plans to sell my Terraferma. The disc brakes were a major selling point for me. After getting back into mountain biking a couple of summers ago (to which I credit the Hunq) and trying discs I was blown away. I know there's been lots of discussion here about the merits of cantis but FOR ME there's no contest. BB7s are incredibly simple to set up and are far superior--IN MY EXPERIENCE--to the Paul Toring cantis I had on the Terreferma (to be honest, the 15 year old $10 Deore V brakes on my LHT are better than the Pauls--heresy, perhaps). I know some will disagree and that's fine. 

I'll use the NFE (should be here in a few weeks) in the same way I used the Terraferma: for mixed terrain road riding as well as paved only rides. And if I return to randonneuring I'll use it for that too. For me, the Jones is best left as a mountain bike. But it for sure could be set as a capable all arounder with different wheels. For now it's set up as a fat front. https://www.flickr.com/photos/cwmcmillen/16710535399/in/dateposted-public/  

One thing that's neat about the Jones is that it takes a little wind out of the sails of those--like me, for a time--committed to thinking fit was some sort of magic. After all, they only come in one size! Just tweak here and there, listen to Jeff's advice, and you're all set. He asked me how tall I am, whether or I wanted to sit up a bit or be in a more agressive position. He then told me what stem he thought I should get. That was it. Bike fits fantastically.

Anyway, hope all the Riv folks don't mind the digression!

Christian 

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

Great review and insight into your thought process, Christian! NFE and Jones both look like great bikes!

[Christian]

Thanks cyclotourist!

[Mike Shaljian]

Thanks for your insight, Christian, and very well said. I apologize if I've hijacked threads off-topic this time around and in the past with some Jones gushing, but I am, in fact, still a Rivendell owner!

However, my Sam Hillborne no longer serves the kind of riding I prefer to do, which tends to consist now of singletrack, rough gravel, dirt and indeed a decent amount of pavement. When I lived in a sprawling east coast city, the Hillborne served me well for 10,000+ miles of fun road riding (mostly commuting). Now that I find myself in more adventurous terrain in Eastern Washington & surrounding, I kept wanting to push the limits of what was possible for an All-Rounder, and finally arrived at it after a few long conversations with Jeff Jones. I had very seriously considered a Hunqapillar, but decided that the 29+ platform was just too damn enchanting to pass up, and I'm glad I went that way, especially given my underdeveloped technical proficiency as a new mountain biker (rolling over pretty much everything with aplomb is great!).

The thing I love about the Jones is the versatility and how it never seems like a "compromise bike" (in the way a Hillborne with Rock N' Roads might be). I'm about to get a second wheelset to go along with my 3" tires, which will be running tubeless Super Motos. It is pretty amazing to me how the Jones transforms from super capable mountain bike to very damn fast All-Road bike with just a wheelset swap (rode tubed Motos when I first got the bike). I should point out that I've never been especially "go fast" in my riding, as indicated by my love for my Sam (which I know many on here find sluggish on the road). I'm more of a rambler who likes to go hard in waves, and never in a competitive sense (e.g. rando rides). I guess the point I was trying to make is that if you can afford two (or three) beautiful bikes, that's great! The NFE and a Jones obviously are best suited to different goals. But if you had to choose one bike to tackle the greatest diversity of exploration, I can just say that I've been amazed at the fun and confidence a Jeff Jones bicycle inspires in a bunch of settings.

+1 on what Christian said about the "fit mystery" also. It really is very, very damn simple with Jeff. Call him up, discuss some basic proportions and what you want to do, and he'll set you up right.

-- Mike

[lukeheller]

I have had my NFE for 2 years and many happy miles. It replaced my 63cm Romulus as my primary brevet bike and everyday bike. Well, I still have the Romulus but somedays can't figure out why when I typically just ride the Elephant anyhow.

My NFE is for 700c wheels and canti-brakes. I got it on the NFE before Glen started the stock run of the NFEs. I needed custom geometry anyhow; my NFE has a 71.5 STA. Makes my heart smile.

I primarily run 700x35's + fenders and a front rando bag.

I took it on an 8 day tour down the pacific coast hwy. Handled well though not a sure footed when loaded as a dedicated stout touring rig.

And I run BG Rock ,n Roads on it every now and again.

For a moment, I wished I had gotten it with discs so I could try out 650b wheels. That moment passed.

That's interesting that Joe B said the NFE and Romulus have the same tubing... those have been my 2 primary bikes for 4 years or so now. I'll say that I still much prefer the ride of my NFE but I don't know that it's due to tubing... I can't really say I notice any difference there. What I notice is...

The Romulus has toe overlap with fenders -    the NFE has 0 toe overlap with my size 13 hooves and fenders

The Romulus has more twitchy handling -       +1 for the NFE, stable handling, love it

Glen really dialed in the geometry perfectly on my 700c NFE. No toe overlap. No pedal strike. STA is perfect, may ass sits right where it wants too (Rom is slightly too far forward). 

[Tony McG]

Would the NFE make a better 100+ mile gravel grinder than my Atlantis?  At 170 lbs, I really don't need such a stout bike, and I would probably be in better shape at the end of the day on something lighter and sportier. The geometry is different, but it looks like I would be able to get the handlebars level with my 79 cm seat height on a stock x-large.

I am currently riding a 61 cm Atlantis.

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/WFRTony/RivAtlantis0520015.jpg

[Mark Reimer]

Depends what you consider 'better'. I'm 160 LBS and ride my Atlantis on 100+ mile rides and enjoy it. However, I agree it is way more bike than you need for something like that. I want a NFE because I have a fair bit of trouble staying with my riding buddies when I'm on the Atlantis. These are people I can easily ride with when I'm on my CX or road bike. I love my Atlantis, but it's more of a pontoon boat - built for cruising around and enjoying the sites. I know a few guys with NFE's now and they all say the bike hauls. Maybe it's the lower weight, more compliant tubing, who knows. I think it would be a great bike for fast rides on mixed terrain where you still want a somewhat upright position and the capability to carry a light load. 

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[Joe Broach]

Hi Luke,

Funny, my daily rider has been a 63 canti-Rom for years, and I'm looking forward to trying out my XL stock NFE.

Didn't mean to imply that tubing was identical between stock NFE and Rom. Both are 8-5-8 OS though. The non-stock NFE's like yours might be different.

My main motivation was more tire clearance and a chance to ride all these 650B tires.

Best,
joe broach
pdx or

Caveat lector. Sent from a phone.

[hangtownmatt]

Speed kills!!  I was in a racy mood comming home from work today and damm near rear ended a car stopped where it had no business being stopped.  I like your comment "built for crusing and enjoying the sites", but you young'ins have a hard time with this and I understand. Some old guys do too.

Matt

[Daniel Jackson]

FYI Folks:

No more custom frames from Glen for at least a year. I inquired recently and got the big negative. 

[Carl Otto Wollin]

Is it possible to run the Rat Trap Pass with 26 x 2.35 with fenders?

What is the max tires with fenders to squeeze in the rear and front of the NFE. 

The NFE looks lika an interesting rig as a commuter for all round use with studded winter tires and fat pair of slicks. 

One rig to mention in this debate are Joshua Bryants new NFD http://www.cyclesjbryant.com/

http://bicycletimesmag.com/spotlight-cycles-j-bryant-nfd-bikepacking-bike/ as an alternative to the Jones with 650 B plus tires.

[Joe Broach]

Hi Carl,

Obviously no one has the tires yet, but the Rat Trap pass should be a good fit on the NFE. Clearances are set for 650bx42 + fenders, and the RTPs are supposed to be the same diameter. There aren't a ton of fender options wide enough, but there are a few from Honjo and others. I'm definitely planning to pick up a set of 559 wheels so I can try them out.

Best,

joe broach

pdx or

[Christian]

Hi everyone,

Reporting back now that I have had the NFE for a week.  It's been great so far!

Thought I'd share my build and a few pics here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cwmcmillen/sets/72157656605491545

WHEELS: WTB KOM i25 rims/Compass Babyshoe Pass EL tubeless/SP dynohub/Hope Evo Pro 2/VO Noir 650B fenders (only front installed; got lazy)

DRIVETRAIN: White Industries VBC crank 42x26/11-36 XT casssette/XT rd and CX 70 fd

RACK etc: Haulin Colin for NFE/VO decaleur/Berthoud GB28. I used a Berthoud decaleur for 5 years on my Terraferma and thought it was great. But I decided to try the much cheaper VO decaleur.  It's easy to set up (so is the Berthoud) and works well.  

Eriksen Ti Sweetpost/Brooks C17 

COCKPIT: started with VO rando bars I had around--too much reach to the breakes, for me; now 46cm Salsa Cowchippers on a Salsa 25 degree/8cm Guide Stem--so far awesome.

Did I miss anything? 

Best wishes,

Christian in Charlottesville 

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/31/2015 02:38 PM, Christian wrote:

Hi everyone,

Reporting back now that I have had the NFE for a week.  It's been great so far!

Thought I'd share my build and a few pics here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cwmcmillen/sets/72157656605491545

WHEELS: WTB KOM i25 rims/Compass Babyshoe Pass EL tubeless/SP dynohub/Hope Evo Pro 2/VO Noir 650B fenders (only front installed; got lazy)

DRIVETRAIN: White Industries VBC crank 42x26/11-36 XT casssette/XT rd and CX 70 fd

RACK etc: Haulin Colin for NFE/VO decaleur/Berthoud GB28. I used a Berthoud decaleur for 5 years on my Terraferma and thought it was great. But I decided to try the much cheaper VO decaleur.  It's easy to set up (so is the Berthoud) and works well.  

Eriksen Ti Sweetpost/Brooks C17 

COCKPIT: started with VO rando bars I had around--too much reach to the breakes, for me; now 46cm Salsa Cowchippers on a Salsa 25 degree/8cm Guide Stem--so far awesome.

Did I miss anything? 

Could you be more specific about the derailleurs & the cassette?  E.g. - is this an 8, 9, 10 or 11 speed drivetrain?   Also, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear more, with more detail, about the nature of the greatness you've been experiencing.

[Patrick Moore]

Good to see that you're having success going tubeless with Compass EL tires. I want to try that myself.

Purty bike, BTW.

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[Christian]

Steve,

Happy to oblige. It's a 10 speed with a 10-36 cassette and XT long cage, clutchless mtn RD shifted by 10 speed Dura Ace bar end shifters.  Shifts great.  The CX70 shifts flawlessly b/w the 26-42. 

On the nature of greatness: Well, it's as zippy my Terraferma ever was--climbs amazingly, descends beautifully, rides well with a front load or without.  

The Compass tires feel fantastic on and off pavement and, Patrick, they were pretty simple to set up tubeless. With my Trek Flash Charger pump (a VERY cool item) the bead popped right on. They hold air very well. 

Any other questions, ask away!   

[Christian]

BTW: The Radavist has a great review of the NFE: http://theradavist.com/2015/07/elephant-bikes-national-forest-explorer-with-gevenalle-shifting/#1

[Jeff Lesperance]

Great looking bike and build. Those cowchippers look like a compelling design - where is the 46cm measured - across the top of the bar or at the flared ends of the drops? What size frame is that?

[Christian]

Jeff 

The bars are measured center to center from the hoods. I really like them so far.  The hooks were nice yesterday while cranking up some steep trails. The frame is a medium--equivalent to a 56cm effective top tube.  Here's the info page with the geometry chart from Elephant:  http://www.elephantbikes.com/stock/

[Daniel D.]

Nice looking bike. Seems to tick off a lot of boxes on my list. But reading this part of the NFE blurb gave me pause, "for experienced riders who prefer nimble handling and light steering input".  Sounds like it may not have the nice easy going stability I'm seeking.

On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 11:56:57 AM UTC-7, Christian wrote:

Steve,

[Steve Palincsar]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "nice easy-going stability" but I like what Alex Wetmore had to say on the subject 5 years ago on the iBOB list:

Archive-URL: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=internet-bob.11001.0138.eml
From: Alex Wetmore <alex(AT)phred.org>
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:44:33 +0000
Subject: Re: [BOB] More Handling Terms Thoughts

From: Mann, Dave [damann(AT)mitre.org]
> I (perhaps incorrectly) tend to think of this stuff
> in terms of how we talk about skis.

I'm not much of a skier (although I'm probably going skiing today), but it 
seems like the dynamics of skis are different enough that the language 
might not cross over.  Doesn't the side cut on skis give them an optimal 
turning radius that basically matches that side cut?

A longer bicycle may not make sharp turns as easily as a shorter bicycle, 
but it isn't like a bicycle is designed to only turn a 20' radius and the 
tires are scrubbing if you make a tighter or more open turn.

I think your terms are closer to the ones used for sea kayaking, where 
stability is almost always described (even by manufacturers) in terms of 
primary and secondary stability.  Primary stability is how stable does the 
kayak feel in the water, do small body movements easily rotate it.  
Secondary stability is how easily does the boat actually flip over when 
you are near the lean limits.  Kayaks such as my Mariner Max are designed 
with low or moderate primary stability because you use the lean to steer 
the kayak.  The secondary stability is high to make them resistant to 
rolling when you didn't intend in.  In contrast our tandem kayak has high 
primary and secondary stability because almost all tandems are steered 
more with the rudder than with leaning (and are often used by 
inexperienced paddlers too).  Kayaks for beginners often have moderate to 
high primary stability because inexperienced paddlers think that tippy 
kayaks (even though they might have high secondary stability and don't 
easily go over) are more likely to roll.  River or play kayaks may have 
low primary and secondary stability to make it easier to roll them. 

I think of my low trail bikes as having similar characteristics to a low 
primary stability, high secondary stability kayak.  The handlebars turn 
easily and have a light feel to them, but the bike is very stable and easy 
to ride no hands.  A high trail bicycle is more like a kayak with high 
primary and secondary stability.  I think that your proposed vocabulary 
encompasses this (and I like that the terms are similar to the ones used 
for kayaks).

One difference with bicycles compared to kayaks is that speed is larger 
factor in bicycle stability than kayak stability.  A kayak doesn't fall 
over just because you aren't moving, but a bicycle does.  A high trail 
bicycle which has high primary and secondary stabililty at riding speeds 
(say 15mph) can be very unstable at lower speeds.  We've all seen that 
when watching a newer cyclist climbing a hill at low speed and weaving all 
over the road.  The same bikes can have that "riding on rails" feeling 
when descending at 40mph down a hill.  I don't see this represented in the 
vocabulary.

I've been thinking about this recently because I'm considering rebuilding 
the front triangle of my wife's bicycle.  I'm trying to consider what the 
best geometry is for it.  Right now her bike has a high trail geometry 
(26" wheels, around 71 degree HTA, around 45mm fork offset, for a trail of 
~65mm.  When she is climbing or riding at slow speeds the bike tends to 
weave around.  I'd love to put her onto a low trail bike and see if the 
same is true, but there aren't production low trail bikes in her size.  
I'll just have to build one.

alex
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[Jim Bronson]

Daniel,

The Elephant NFE is a low trail bike, meaning it is meant to have a load in the front.  Unloaded in the front, the steering will be somewhat light depending on the exact amount of trail it has in millimeters.  Jan Heine has done some testing on the handling characteristics of various amounts of (low) trail.  35mm trail is said to be best with a 5-10 lb weight in front.  Not sure exactly what the NFE has, as their site does not give an exact number on the amount of trail.

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--

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/31/2015 05:27 PM, Jim Bronson wrote:

Daniel,

The Elephant NFE is a low trail bike, meaning it is meant to have a load in the front.  Unloaded in the front, the steering will be somewhat light depending on the exact amount of trail it has in millimeters.  Jan Heine has done some testing on the handling characteristics of various amounts of (low) trail.  35mm trail is said to be best with a 5-10 lb weight in front.  Not sure exactly what the NFE has, as their site does not give an exact number on the amount of trail.

Perhaps that might be better worded "35mm trail is said to be best with a front load of no more than 5-10 lb, and no less of a load than a bag and contents of 2-3 lb."  

When I went to the LBS to pick up my 1st gen Kogswell P/R I went for a little ride around the parking lot.  Handling felt shockingly weird -- strange enough to make me exclaim out loud.  Next time I rode the bike I had a bag with a wallet, keys, I think a small bag of tools with an allen wrench set and some tire levers, a couple of tubes -- total with the bag and the stuff in it probably no more than 2 lb -- and handling was totally normal feeling.  Yes, light; yes easily steered; no "lock in on a line" while cornering.  But unexceptional.  Just normal.  No need to go up to 5-10 lb for it to feel "right," a bag with nearly nothing in it was enough.

[cyclotourist]

Hi Christian, I'm half-way kicking myself for not getting one of these
from the last round. Might have messed up there...

Anyway, Cowchippers are currently in my Jenson cart, although trying
to make Woodchippers work. I'm wonding how you find the feel of the
CCs singletrack? The WCs are great(!) there, but not so great
everywhere else. I'm playing around with stem, tilt, height combos
trying to get them to work, but thinking that CCs are in my future...

[Christian McMillen]

I love the Cowchippers so far. Hardly any fussing with them. I rode them on singletrack the other day--a pic or two in the Flickr--and really like the shallow drop, width (46cm) and flare when it came to cranking uphill. But then today I did a four hour road ride and they were great there too. Sounds to me like the woodchippers need to go!

> On Aug 1, 2015, at 1:49 AM, cyclotourist <cyclot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Christian, I'm half-way kicking myself for not getting one of these
> from the last round. Might have messed up there...
>
> Anyway, Cowchippers are currently in my Jenson cart, although trying
> to make Woodchippers work. I'm wonding how you find the feel of the
> CCs singletrack? The WCs are great(!) there, but not so great
> everywhere else. I'm playing around with stem, tilt, height combos
> trying to get them to work, but thinking that CCs are in my future...
>
>

> Them

> On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Christian
> <christian....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jeff
>>
>> The bars are measured center to center from the hoods. I really like them so
>> far. The hooks were nice yesterday while cranking up some steep trails. The
>> frame is a medium--equivalent to a 56cm effective top tube. Here's the info
>> page with the geometry chart from Elephant:
>> http://www.elephantbikes.com/stock/
>>
>>> On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 3:04:53 PM UTC-4, Jeff wrote:
>>>
>>> Great looking bike and build. Those cowchippers look like a compelling
>>> design - where is the 46cm measured - across the top of the bar or at the
>>> flared ends of the drops? What size frame is that?
>

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[Justin August]

Flickr link?

-J

[cyclotourist]

Thanks, Christian. I figure some will end on my Gryphon sooner rather
than later! I have some Cowbells on my Salsa, and really like those a
lot BTW.

Justin: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cwmcmillen/19956632478/in/datetaken/

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--
Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Carl Otto Wollin]

Hi Christian 

Looking good. 

Is it possible to use this frame with 26 inch wheels, with the coming Rat Trap Pass tires https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/04/04/the-enduro-allroad-bike/

and you have better availability of studded winter tires. 

As a commuter and a compliment to my low trail Randonneur bikes. 

Regards

Carl Otto Wollin 

---

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 11:38:47 -0700
From: christian....@gmail.com
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
CC: christian....@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Elephant National Park Explorer

[Christian McMillen]

Carl,

I cannot see why not. The disc brakes  would allow for 26" wheels I imagine. In fact, I might have read somewhere on the Internet of someone riding a prototype of those tires on the NFE--but it could have been the also forthcoming 650x48 Compass tires. I'm eager to get the Rat Traps on my LHT. 

The Cowbells and Cowchippers are more similar than either are to the Woodchippers. 

Riv content: I bought by Cambium from Riv. 

Christian 

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

From my phone. Apologies for typos and brevity. 

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[Mike Schiller]

John, one of the guys behind the stock NFE's is running the Rat Trap pass tires on his NFE.  Looks like they fit just fine and are the same diameter as a 650B x 42 mm wheel.

~mike

[Carl Otto Wollin]

Sounds Good 

Are the Rat Traps available?

Thanks for the pics looks like good clearence in the rear https://www.flickr.com/photos/cwmcmillen/19620023613/in/album-72157656605491545/

Is it enough to use the Rat Traps with a pair of fenders, is it possible to fit a pair of 60 mm Berthoud on the NFE. 

It looks like a very nice rig to use as a commuter.

Carl W

 

---

Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2015 19:21:10 -0700
From: mikey...@rocketmail.com
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

[Christian]

Rat traps are not yet available.  Check with Compass for info. I really don't know whether they will fit with fenders nor do I know if 60mm Berthouds will fit.  I would siggest contacting elephant.  The photo does suggest lots and lots of clearance. 

It would make a great commuter, I'm sure  

[Justin August]

On the latest blog they predicted end of August. Knowing how customs, shipping, et al work, I'd estimate end of September. Not a shot at them, more at the offloading, customs, processing process for imported goods.

-J

[Ginz]

How much does 'light and responsive' matter once you'd put a handlebar bag on a bike and loaded it with food and gear?  I understand a light wheelset.  But, if you want a light bike for gravel roads, why the disc brakes (more of a rhetorical question.  I know why).  Nice, but my Hunqapillar does that...doesn't it?

[Philip Kim]

In the meantime,  you can try Kojaks. Very nice tire, and same size as the Compass tires will be.

I've been thinking of getting an NFE, but after riding my Sam last night, that feeling diminished a little : )

I just wish the Sam had a few mm of clearance, but limited mostly due to the Paul racers.

The versatility of different tire sizing for the NFE still has me interested. Anyone ride a Sam and NFE and can shed some light on the ride differences? Do disc brakes really make a difference? I'm about 150lb, and Paul Racers stopped on a dime last night when a car unexpected merged into the bike lane to park on a downhill.

[Christian McMillen]

Yes, for sure, the Hunq can do all that.  I had one for a year; no doubt a capable bike. For me, the Hunq felt too much like my stiff and heavy LHT. The NFE feels much more like my Terraferma. It carries a load in my Berthoud very well. As far s loading it up with stuff I’ve only used the Berthoud so far.  Would it be slow and less responsive all loaded up?  Probably.  But then 99% of the time I’m just using the GB28. I’m happy. 

On Aug 4, 2015, at 9:38 AM, Ginz <the...@gmail.com> wrote:

How much does 'light and responsive' matter once you'd put a handlebar bag on a bike and loaded it with food and gear?  I understand a light wheelset.  But, if you want a light bike for gravel roads, why the disc brakes (more of a rhetorical question.  I know why).  Nice, but my Hunqapillar does that...doesn't it?

[Mark Reimer]

Saw this online yesterday, thought I'd share:

Rat Trap Pass tires WITH fenders on an Elephant.