Ram as 650 tourer?!?

[alan lavine]

Hello to the group, I'd like to pick y'alls brains (sp?)

I have a 64 cm Ram that I bought used, and I'm trying to see how it fits into my stable.  I have Compass tires 700 x 32, measures 30, on it now, and I realize that I can either put larger tires on it OR fenders but not both.  I wanted both so that it could be used as my credit card touring bike...looking for 38's with full fenders.

Would a 650 conversion achieve that? Would it change the ride at all?  I've never ridden 650's before.  Besides new wheels and possibly brakes, depending on available reach, what other modifications are required?

The serial # is R038...any idea as to date of manufacture?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom. I've not been much of a contributor but I read this blog daily and always enjoy it and learn from it.

Alan LaVine

NYC

[David Banzer]

I converted my Redwood (less fancy Ram) to 650b. It currently has 48mm tires with room for fenders. Clearance is tight at the chainstays but doable so far.
Using long reach Tektros, you might need to file a little depending on rim and brake pads.
It easily is my favorite bike after the conversion.
David
Chicago

[Fullylugged]

Spec was 35 mm with fenders or 37 mm without. So you can put bigger tires on and stay at 700. Or you can convert and go much larger.  Your serial # indicates early production at Toyo.

[Joe Bernard]

It's feasible, but 650b conversions are usually done on bikes with short-reach brakes and higher-than-Riv bottom brackets. The Ram starts with medium-reach and a low BB, so getting long-range brakes to work is dicey, plus you're looking at possible pedal strike issues in corners.

[Tim Gavin]

Alan-

I really like my 650-converted Riv Road Standard, which had short-reach brakes but an even lower bottom bracket (80 mm drop).  It now fits 38 mm tires (fork legs and chain stays are tight) with 45 mm fenders, and rides great. 

I have scraped the pedal slightly in corners, so I'm very careful not to pedal through corners any more.  Seems a small tradeoff for wider tires, fenders, and a great ride.  The BB is so low that I feel more like a part of the bike than perched on top of it.  I'm careful to level out my pedals when riding over obstacles.

As others have stated, you may have issues finding effective brakes with enough reach.  Dia-Compe 750 centerpulls have tons of reach, and can be effective with good pads, good housing, and a low straddle cable.

Tim Gavin,

Cedar Rapids, IA

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's feasible, but 650b conversions are usually done on bikes with short-reach brakes and higher-than-Riv bottom brackets. The Ram starts with medium-reach and a low BB, so getting long-range brakes to work is dicey, plus you're looking at possible pedal strike issues in corners.

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[Leslie]

I converted my 60cm Ram to 650b:   https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/8351739256/in/album-72157623199721925/  (try looking forward and backward from that photo in the album).

When I originally built it, it was as a fendered 700c-32; had marginal clearance, but as I'm not a little guy, was getting occasional scrubbing (tire-shape-deformation as my weight moved around);  I switched down to 28's for a bit for the clearance, but, I really wanted bigger-not-smaller tires on there. 
Since I have a 650b Bombadil and could borrow its wheels, all I needed to buy to try the Ram out as a 650b was a set of calipers, went with the long-reach Tektros.   My original calipers were R538's, had to switch to the 559's. Front was fine, but on the rear, I needed to deepen the slots of the calipers to get the pads lower so that I wouldn't get the pad into the tire. 

Thing is, I went w/ Hetres, which are more like a 650b-41, fatter than a 38.   Thing is, the Ram has a low BB, so you run the risk of pedal strike if you go w/ a narrower 650b;  but a 650b-42 range tire is really close in height to a 700c-27. 

I'm running 172.5 cranks on this bike; I've not had any pedal strikes, but, I've contemplated switching to a 170, just for a margin of safety.  (I don't aggressively pedal through corners either;  but if you're CC-touring, I don't think you would be either?).

I don't carry a lot of weight on this bike;  a tube/patchkit/tools in the saddlebag, and stuff a jacket and a sandwich in the front bag.... If I have a load to carry, I'm taking the Bombadil instead...  


-L

[Leslie]

PS: http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html

Yours is an older orange Ram, correct?   Some of them had a high bridge, making the rear brake be a bit high;  that might be your limiting factor.

On Sunday, July 5, 2015 at 6:44:47 PM UTC-4, alan lavine wrote:

[alan lavine]

On Sunday, July 5, 2015 at 6:44:47 PM UTC-4, alan lavine wrote:

As usual, the group has responded in an exemplary fashion, thanks to all.

-I currently have 11 mm clearance at the closest point, which is where the end of the rear fender would attach to the frame between the chain stays.  Not much with tires that measure 30.

-Not too concerned about pedal strike, not sure if I even pedal thru a turn, but I'm not an aggressive rider to begin with.  If this works, I will be changing cranks anyway, so I can go from a 175 to 170.

-Currently have Riv silver brakes and the pads are at the highest position in the slot. Measuring, I can get the extra 19 mm needed for 650's in the the lowest point in the slot.  Front and rear are the same.

-Plan would be for 42 mm tires...any recs for a comfy tire? Flat protection not an issue.

So it seems with new wheels and tires, maybe crank, this can happen easily.  Any recs for wheels that won't break the bank?  The VO ones look quite nice.

Also, for a bit of background: I had a Surly LHT that I used for fully loaded touring, and it was excellent.  But with a light load, or none, the bike was rigid as hell and my aging, arthritic body and butt were not happy.  I stripped it, donated the frame, and put the wheels and components on a vintage Fuji Saratoga made with Ishiwata tubing.  More flexible yes, but comfy, and just fine for CC touring. I have 38 Compass tires on it, the largest I've ever used, and love it to death. So I'm just trying to maximize the possibilities with the Ram, and further explore the world of fat tires.

Again, heartfelt thanks to all.

Alan

-

[Tim Gavin]

The top choices for 650b tires (especially if you don't need extra puncture protection) are the Compass tires:

Babyshoe Pass 650x42

Loup Loup Pass 650x38

and their older Grand Bois versions:

Hetre 650x42

Lierre 650x38

My current favorite is the Panaracer/Pacenti Pari-Moto.  They're super fast and light, and only $32 each from Mike Kone at Boulder Bicycles.  650x38 gives you a little more room for a fender.

The above tires are the lightest tires with very low rolling resistance.  Other tires, with a bit sturdier casings:

Panaracer Pasela 650x42

Soma New Xpress 650x38

Panaracer Col De La Vie 650x38

Fatty Rumpkin green 650x41

and quite sturdy:

Fatty Rumpkin blue 650x41

Schwalbe Marathon 650x42

For fenders, the SKS P45 is easy to install, and has the least-obtrusive hardware.  On the VO fenders I have now, the stay attachment bolts intrude into the tire clearance.  SKS chromoplastic fenders have the stay bolts on the sides, out of the way.

For wheels, I built my own with Pacenti PL23 rims (on clearance for $40), a dynamo hub, and the VO Grand Cru touring cassette hub.

Tim

--

[Bruce Herbitter]

I've had good service with Velocity Synergy rims on Deore hubs. RBW sold some Velocity Twin Hollow rims on Deores a while back. Those rims are better for light weight riders, IMO. I have them and they work fine for me also. They're my back up set. I have Synergy rims on White IND hubs on a 650B converted Riv Road. (and to round out the report, 650B Velocity Aerohead 28s rims on old Japanese hubs on a TREK 660 conversion).

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[Leslie]

I would suggest trying the wheels first, then if it all works out, consider the crank, but no need to jump on the crank instantly, until you know whether the wheels will work or not.

I love my Hetres, but the Babyshoe is the 'new' version of them.   The Pari-Motos are supposedly great if a little smaller, but I've not tried them.  I have the 'force field' Fatty Rumpkins on the Bombadil; they are fine for that bike, but I wouldn't suggest them for a Ram, would totally kill the reason for going to a lighter bike... really tough tire, but, it feels it.    

My Bomba's wheelset came from Rich (Synergy rims), but I built up my own 650b wheels for my Ram, went w/ the A23 rim, really love it.  I would have gone w/ the Dyads (I have them in 700c), but the 650b version of the Dyads wasn't available at the time.

RBW used to have a 'budget' 650b wheelset, but it looks like they only have their standard set now...   You might try posting an ad for a 650b wheelset here, on the 650b group, iBobs, etc., to get a wheelset that you can verify that your calipers' slot is deep enough to get your pads to align on the rim without rubbing a tire.   I had to file to ensure I was clearing my tires, and mine is a late Ram, not an early one.   Yours is probably fine since you mentioned that your pads are at the top of the slot, but, I would hate to hear you report back that you had a rear tire blow out and discovered that the pad had been rubbing against the tire...  safety first!

-L

[Beardpapa]

What brakes did you use for the conversion?

[alan lavine]

Well, I think I'm gonna go for it.  Will report back in a few weeks.  Thanks!

[Leslie]

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 7:20:19 PM UTC-4, Beardpapa wrote:

What brakes did you use for the conversion?

I switched from 538's to 559's.

[Kieran J]

FYI - I've covered this in other threads on the topic, but the long reach Tektros would not reach a 650b A23 rim on my orange Ram. The front was fine but the rear wasn't, even if I had filed the slots.

I was forced to go with DC 750s (and I ultimately switched back to 700c as I preferred the bike that way).

KJ

[Leslie]

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 9:41:07 AM UTC-4, Kieran J wrote:

FYI - I've covered this in other threads on the topic, but the long reach Tektros would not reach a 650b A23 rim on my orange Ram. The front was fine but the rear wasn't, even if I had filed the slots.

I was forced to go with DC 750s (and I ultimately switched back to 700c as I preferred the bike that way).

KJ

Excellent point:  just because my Ram could, doesn't mean they all could... that rear brake bridge's location matters, can make it happen, or not happen.

I like my 42 650b tires on my Ram; when I was running it as 700c, the largest I ever ran was a 32, which was fine, but I like the 42s better.    If I needed to go back to 700c for some reason I would probably go up to 35's, but then have to remove the fenders...

If I was a hundred pounds lighter, I might not have as much of a preference for the 42's over the 32's, either.... 

Lots of things to consider....