All turned around bout rims [SOS Help!]

[hsmitham]

Hey I need the collective wisdom of this group. First, how does rim width affect tires overall width, height, ride? Does it even make a difference between 22.5 mm and 27.5 mm?

What are your thoughts on these rims for a loaded tour/S240 rig:

Sheldon Brown 26" rims.

Which of these would you go for especially if your attempting to keep the costs down? Other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,

~Hugh

[cyclotourist]

The current thinking seems to echo that of tire design: Wider = better

I would say 22.5 to 27.5 is a significant difference and would go wider all else being equal. 

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

wider rim = wider tire… as in the same tire will be wider on the wider rim. There is a noticeable difference between 22.5 and 27.5… 22.5 is probably close to what's on your Homer. 27.5 will be more like a rim on a beach cruiser. 

Those all look like double wall rims w/ eyelet's… any of them are probably fine for your purpose. 

I would probably go with the Rhyno Lite (27.5) just for the extra width. 

--Smitty

[dougP]

Hugh:

Are these for the Atlantis?  What tires are you planning to use? 

My personal approach is "wider is better & heavier is better".  There's only a hundred grams difference so that's a non-issue.  Price is reasonable for any of them.  A couple of friends have used the Mavic with good success but I'm sure the others are equally good. 

dougP

On Thursday, January 16, 2014 5:00:38 PM UTC-8, hsmitham wrote:

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

FWIW… I see the Rhyno Lites on cargo bikes all the time. 

--Smitty

On Thursday, January 16, 2014 5:00:38 PM UTC-8, hsmitham wrote:

[Mike Schiller]

I would agree wider rims flatten out the tire and increase width.  I'm not that excited about Sun rims though.  They seem to have more rim to rim height variation than others ( tire fit). And Mavics seem to crack at the eyelets a little more than average.  I like the the Velocity noBS rim  http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/nobs-559   or Atlas for a few more $$.  Both are MUSA and mid width at 25.4 mm.  You won't see much diff between 25.4 and 27.5 in tire width.

oh yea... I'd go with 36h rims as well.

good luck

~mike

[Hugh Smitham]

Michael, thanks for the offer, however I'm after something a bit different. Be good to ride with again at the RSR.

David, that's the vein I was moving towards.

Smitty, good to hear the Rhyno lite's are used on Cargo's says volumes about their strength.

Doug, Ah could be...I think wider seems to be the consensus. And as you say the price is reasonable. 

Funny, I assumed this would devolve/evolve into a high tech thread with wind tunnel dynamics and such, see what I get for assuming. Thanks all  for unraveling my grey matter on this subject and keeping it simple.

I'm gravitating toward the Sun rims and...hold on incoming from the Bigshill.

Mike,  I like Velocity rims (Riv digs them) but do they come in black? And the price is a bit more. I was hoping to keep the total cost down.

So since I'm leaning toward the Sun Rhyno Lite's has anyone personal experience with these?

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

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[Mike Schiller]

Hugh...most people say wheels are not where you scrimp.  The noBS rims are about $60 each so kinda mid range.  

The Rynolites are used on a lots of MTB bikes too and are pretty burly.  They are also one of the cheapest rims on the market though, made in China. 

Maybe you should talk to your wheel builder and see what they say.  

~mike

[Hugh Smitham]

Mike,

Does cheap translate into poor performance?

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Mike Schiller]

can't really answer that one  Hugh.  I'd go with a little lighter rim even for off-road s24o's.  100 gms of rotating weight per wheel ( 1/4 lb) is a lot to deal with unless you are carrying super heavy loads or jumping off cliffs.

This is what I would get.... Velocity Aeroheat is the 26" version of the Dyad and it comes in black. Great rims, very durable for touring and in black!   http://www.modernbike.com/itemgroup.asp?igpk=2126174428&TID=367&gclid=CL-h5dOxhLwCFQVbfgodkUUAOw

I have Dyads on my Matthews and also had them on my Soma I toured with.  They are the go-to rim for touring.

mike

[Christopher Chen]

Big thumbs up for the dyads. I have 'em on the front, got 'em when I got the SON28, and I'll be building up a rear wheel soon.

Manny has 'em on his Hillborne, and that has to count for something*

*Yeah, it counts for HEARSAY

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[Hugh Smitham]

Mike,

Your link didn't work? Does Velocity make the Dyad in a 26" rim?

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Andy Schmidt]

try this… http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims#sizes-tab

[Christopher Chen]

No Dyad in 26" but the Aeroheat looks incredibly similar: http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/aeroheat-559

try this… http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims#sizes-tab

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[Hugh Smitham]

How about these?

http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/nobs-559

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Hugh Smitham]

Right they don't make a Dyad in 26" 

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Mike Schiller]

hmmm link worked for me.   The Aeroheat uses the same extrusion as the Dyad.  I don't know why they don't call it a Dyad?   

Shop around, you can buy them for around $50 per rim.  

~mike

[Andy Schmidt]

BigSchill Mike already mentioned the NoBS. it lacks eyelet's, but I imagine they've beefed it up accordingly. 

FWIW… I was contemplating the Velocity Cliffhanger (559) for my tandem… it's like an over wide 26" Dyad. 

[Hugh Smitham]

Oh my! I'm going back and forth between a rabble and sanity.

No really thanks Andy I'll check it out. But first.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:16 PM, Andy Schmidt <54c...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Hugh Smitham]

Got it Mike. I'll check them out and talk to the wheel builder.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Mike Schiller]

The noBS is what I suggested before. But I really  think it's too heavy for most uses except for really heavy loads, tandems and larger riders.  The Aeroheat is exactly the same rim geometry as the Dyad. They both come from the same extrusion die.  For some reason when they roll at 26" and smaller they call it an Aeroheat.  

~mike

[Hugh Smitham]

Thanks Mike.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[grant]

The early mountain bikes had 32mm rims for the 50mm or so tires they had. The tire and rim with were proportional. Mtn bike tire rims got skinnier when Keith Bontrager (this is not a knock, he has been a hero) cut down Mavic road rims (MA-2, 20.5mm) to mtn bike 26 size, and big rim  makers and bike bike product managers wanted to be nearly as cool, so followed that move and made skinnier rims, and we've never recovered.
The ISO (international standards org) recommends much rider rims than almost anybody uses...for fat tires. They don't enforce rules or oversee or anything. They're a bunch of engineers who recommend. The older wider rims are more in line with their recs for fatter tires.

The only drawback to a wider tire is weight. It holds a lower pressure tire better, it provides slightly more height and width, and especially in the case of a sidepull or centerpull, it gives a fatter tire a better chance to escape btw the pads when the arms are released. With canti or V, this isn't a big deal, but if the fork blades are wide and the   canti posts are set wide and the rim is skinny, the pads will arc down at the contact point, which...can't be great.

Wider is also much stronger laterally, but...blah blah blah...

I think in our catalogue we have tire recs for rim widths. I don't have one here and I won't be within 122 miles of one for a few days, but basically...if your tire is fat your rim should be...not skinny. I don't think I'm surprising anybody with that statement, but I apologize for using so many words to get to it.
G

On Thursday, January 16, 2014 5:00:38 PM UTC-8, hsmitham wrote:

[Hugh Smitham]

I know Grant you are a chatty sort. But really thanks for the explanation with some history behind it...history is always fun stuff in my book! Lesson and all. 

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

--

[ascpgh]

<... and talk to the wheel builder.> 

That's my advice. Quality products usually come from quality companies. Before lacing up a wheel for a customer, the builder observes the rim to be warped slightly and /or out of round, they won't want to spend their time to see if it might work. How that adjustment goes between them and the manufacturer says a lot. Most wheel builders have opinions on this point, they usually indicate the truth about product commitment. 

"Light, strong, cheap. Pick two." -Keith Bontrager

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Patrick Moore]

I'm still using, or at least own, Sun M14A and Trek "Mountain Aero" rims in the 559 size that were sold 20 years ago as mtb rims and measured only 19 mm outside. They are a bit iffy even with the 32 mm (actual) Kojaks or Paselas I run or used to run on the '03 -- much more sensitive to pressure below a certain threshold. But I used to run your typical 1.95s on them back in the day. Apart from being narrow, both these rims are bullet proof. I am using them because I have so many of them, they are strong and light, and blowouts are, thank God, rare. If I ever get a lot of $$, I'll rebuild with a nice 23 mm rim.

The Rhyno Lites measure 27 mm outside, IIRC, but they are not light -- front wheels identical except for the rims, 27 mm RLs, and the 44 mm SnoCat SLs, weighed exactly the same, to the gram, on a digital scale! (Ie, heavy.)

The same 622X60 Big Apples (not the LiteSkin model) on the SnoCats measured 65 mm; on RLs, 60 mm.

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 11:23 PM, grant <gran...@gmail.com> wrote:

The early mountain bikes had 32mm rims for the 50mm or so tires they had. The tire and rim with were proportional. Mtn bike tire rims got skinnier when Keith Bontrager (this is not a knock, he has been a hero) cut down Mavic road rims (MA-2, 20.5mm) to mtn bike 26 size, and big rim  makers and bike bike product managers wanted to be nearly as cool, so followed that move and made skinnier rims, and we've never recovered.

.... 

The only drawback to a wider [rim] is weight. It holds a lower pressure tire better, it provides slightly more height and width, and especially in the case of a sidepull or centerpull, it gives a fatter tire a better chance to escape btw the pads when the arms are released. With canti or V, this isn't a big deal, but if the fork blades are wide and the   canti posts are set wide and the rim is skinny, the pads will arc down at the contact point, which...can't be great.

Wider

--

Burque (NM)

 

Resumes that get interviews:

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

[Patrick Moore]

BTW, I am NOT defending skinny rims, just adding historical support for G's "skinny was fashionable" information. 

Patrick" scrupulous" Moore

[Chris Lampe 2]

On his website, Peter White talks about his experiences with rim quality and which ones are almost always "good" and which ones have some variability.  I remember for sure that Velocity was in the "good" category and I think Mavic was as well.  Some others that I commonly see were in the "variable" column.  

[qwerty]

For what it's worth, I recently built a wheel set for a Trucker Deluxe
with Rhyno Lites. They built up fine, and are certainly stout and on
the heavy side (what I wanted for a loaded tourer). I also have a
Schmidt hub built with a Mavic X517 for winter riding on this bike. I
have noticed a greater difficulty in mounting and dismounting my
stiff-walled Schwalbe Duremes on the Rhyno Lites. (Takes 2 of 3
levers on the Rhyno Lites, but only 1 lever on the X517s.) I
attribute this difference to either a shallower spoke bed or a
slightly larger diameter on the Rhyno Lites. Sun has had a reputation
of running on the side of slightly larger diameters. Still, I'm
completely satisfied with the Rhyno Lites, at least as long as I can
keep the flats to a minimum.

Mike G.

On 1/17/14, Chris Lampe 2 <clamp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On his website, Peter White talks about his experiences with rim quality
> and which ones are almost always "good" and which ones have some
> variability. I remember for sure that Velocity was in the "good" category
> and I think Mavic was as well. Some others that I commonly see were in the
>
> "variable" column.
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 17, 2014 3:53:27 AM UTC-6, ascpgh wrote:
>
>> <... and talk to the wheel builder.>
>>
>> That's my advice. Quality products usually come from quality companies.
>> Before lacing up a wheel for a customer, the builder observes the rim to
>> be
>> warped slightly and /or out of round, they won't want to spend their time
>>
>> to see if it might work. How that adjustment goes between them and the
>> manufacturer says a lot. Most wheel builders have opinions on this point,
>>
>> they usually indicate the truth about product commitment.
>>

>> "Light, strong, cheap. Pick two." *-Keith Bontrager*

>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Friday, January 17, 2014 12:34:37 AM UTC-5, hsmitham wrote:
>>>
>>> Got it Mike. I'll check them out and talk to the wheel builder.
>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
>>> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep

>>> moving." -- Albert Einstein

>>>
>>> http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:22 PM, Mike Schiller
>>> <mikey...@rocketmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> hmmm link worked for me. The Aeroheat uses the same extrusion as the
>>>> Dyad. I don't know why they don't call it a Dyad?
>>>>
>>>> Shop around, you can buy them for around $50 per rim.
>>>>
>>>> ~mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:16:31 PM UTC-8, Andy Smitty Schmidt
>>>> wrote:
>>>>

>>>>> try this... http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims#sizes-tab

>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:07 PM, Hugh Smitham
>>>>> <hughs...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your link didn't work? Does Velocity make the Dyad in a 26" rim?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~Hugh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep

>>>>>> moving." -- Albert Einstein

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[Tex69]

I'll throw my 2 cents in that I've been rolling a 26" Aeroheat now for around 4 years, built by Jim Thill, and have had no problems to speak of. I then had a rear wheel built last year with an Aeroheat that already had a spoke break, but to no fault of the rim. I'm a solid Clydesdale and have used my front wheel on an LHT, Troll, and now on an Atlantis. I'm a fan.

Tim S

[Leslie]

@ Mike Schiller: I could be mistaken, but I think the Aeroheat came first; Velocity decided to roll it as a touring/29'er tire afterwards, but wanted to separate it so people wanting the usual 26" MTB rims wouldn't order the wrong one....

[Aaron Young]

Hugh,

I just finished reading through this thread. But how does it end?  Did you decide on a rim? Which one and what do you think of it?

I'm resurrecting this thread because I'm researching 26" rims for my first go at wheel building.  I was leaning toward the Aeroheat before coming across this thread, and will likely go in that direction. 

Hope your wheels worked out well.

-Aaron Young

The Dalles, OR

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[Chris Chen]

Aeroheat good. Sure you don't wanna go 650B?

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[hugh flynn]

I snapped up a pair of NOS Mavic M261 559 rims (silver, box section, double eyelets) that at 26mm wide are a very nice match for my Compas 559x1.5 and 1.75 tires. I wouldn't want to go any narrower for 1.5 and above tires if I could help it.

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Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

[Aaron Young]

Sounds like a good rim, Hugh. 

Chris, the rim wall on my rear wheel is getting pretty thin and I keep getting this thought that it's going to fail pretty soon. I'll do a 26" set first (maybe just the rear) and do a 650b set next. Might go with Aeroheats on that build too. 

-Aaron

[Hugh Smitham]

Hey Aaron,

I did have a wheel set built.  DT Swiss rims 4_ _ ? double butted DT spokes SON 28 Black hub with an XT rear hub Black.  I originally wanted a set of Velocity Synergy's in black with MSW's but apparently they don't make the Synergy's in 26" so I went with the DT rims as they had a similar cross section to the Velocity's. The wheels are laced 32 front & rear as I'm about 155 lbs and don't figure on carrying excessive gear/weight (no more than 40lbs but more likely in the 30 lb range) and compromised with a bit less rotating weight. I'll get the specific's on the rim model later. I'd like to do my own build but life has conspired to limit my time these days.

Which bike are your wheels intended for? Look forward to what you build and hope to get a ride in with you this Summer.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Aaron Young]

Ditto on the summer ride, Hugh. 

This 26" set will be for my "rough stuff" Koga Miyata Valley Runner. Currently it's set up with Albatross bars, but I'm planning on going to Albastache bars because I feel like I can be more aggressive on downhills with the brakes up front.  I have regular moustache bars (Moustace Classique?") on my Sam H. and I love those on downhills.  Ideally, the Koga Miyata will also be my camping bike and might possibly do some touring depending on how racked I can get it (and if I can ever get my act together enough to actually do a tour). So wheels-wise I want to cover those bases.  I was thinking the Velocity Atlas might be overkill so that's what lead me to the Aeroheat. 

-Aaron

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[Montclair BobbyB]

For 26" rims, I swear by Alex DM24 (26" x 32mm wide)... Double-walled, eyeletted... INEXPENSIVE.  I have used these on the last 5 or so builds (and so far they have been flawless).
These are currently my favorite go-to rim at the moment... 

As for Ryno-Lites... I have owned these in the past, and while they were relatively inexpensive and durable, CHANGING TIRES has always been a chore with the RLs... Something in the Sun sizing... don't know if they've fixed this problem, but they had the same issue with other rims in their lineup... I generally avoid Sun for that reason... (hopefully they've since fixed the sizing issues).

BB

[Bruce Herbitter]

I ride on Rich Lesnik built Velocity Aeroheats. Stay dead nuts true no matter what so far and are a great fit with 38 mm tires.

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