What is the advantage of expensive hubs?

[Jim Bronson]

Pricing out parts for my build, the cost difference in hubs between the bling hubs and say Shimano hubs are pretty noticable.  A Chris King, Phil Wood, et. al, are quite expensive, $350ish in the case of the Chris King, $400+ in the case of the Phil.

On the other hand, I found Tiagra 4600 rear hubs for as little as $24.45 online, and 105 5700 rear hubs for $43.45.  Now we all know that Shimano hubs are loose ball bearing hubs, but in practice what is the functional deficiency if the bearing preload is properly adjusted?  Some people seem to think the 105 hub is better sealed than the Tiagra and if so would be worth $19 to me.  But if not...?  Rivendell sells 105 5500 hubs on their site, so they must not be that bad.

To give some more background, I have a Chris King hub on a frame I was planning on selling.  The plan was to re-use the CK hub on my new build.  Different wheel size, so I would need to start over with new rims and spokes either way.  But if I could sell the CK for $200 or more, and replace it with say a 105 or even a Deore hub, that would help me get my build together faster.  The new frame is spaced 132.5 so can take 130 or 135.

I also don't love the fact that the CK hub needs to be taken apart and re-lubed yearly.  I had an issue before with the lube drying out and causing the hub to be sticky on transition from pedaling to coasting when my service interval was too long.  That being said, the polished silver CK is a bit more aesthetically pleasing than the dull silver Shimano hubs.

My main criteria is that the hub is sealed well against water intrusion and rolls down the road easily.  Low maintenance is a plus.  A difference in weight of 100 grams is not meaningful to me.  Bling is nice, but my priority is function over form.  It does need to be silver, of course.

Replacing the CK with a mid-priced cartridge bearing hub might be another option.  The Velo Orange hubs look pretty nice.  I'm guessing they would probably would require less maintenance than the CK hubs and if the cartridge bearings are of good quality they would probably be well sealed.

-Jim

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[eflayer]

the law of diminishing returns does set in at some point:

 

"The law of diminishing returns is a classic economic concept that states that as more investment in an area is made, overall return on that investment increases at a declining rate, assuming that all variables remain fixed. To continue to make an investment after a certain point (which varies from context to context) is to receive a decreasing return on that input."

 

You might consider moving up a notch, but not all the way to bling. Maybe cartridge bearings and lower weight would be fun to play with, and...

 

The bikehubstore.com seems to have a fine reputation for selling good stuff and providing good service. All that said, if you don't care about weight and mostly about utility, then I think you won't experience any level of disappointment with nearly anything from Shimano....and they are famous for not making that aggravating pawl click noise found in even the most expensive.

 

http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/144.htm

[Garth]

I use Phil FW hubs and they are zero maintenance , which is exactly why I chose them for 2 sets of wheels (so far) .  I was done cleaning and adjusting cup/cone hubs in the early 80's when even my Stumpjumper came with Specialized cartridge bearing hubs . The Phil CS hubs looks pretty easy to dismantle, as does the VO, not so much the White .  Phil and King and likely White you'll be able to get parts for long term if you need them , VO I doubt . Velocity does make CS hubs also , and I suspect they would offer some long term support as well .

For me, it's all about little or no maintenance .  Every quality hub these days is going to roll well , and have great sealing from water , so it just comes down to asking yourself , do I want a cup/cone hub and regular maintenance, or cartridge bearing hubs with little or none .

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, May 5, 2014 9:05:58 AM UTC-7, eflayer wrote:

the law of diminishing returns does set in at some point:

 

"The law of diminishing returns is a classic economic concept that states that as more investment in an area is made, overall return on that investment increases at a declining rate, assuming that all variables remain fixed. To continue to make an investment after a certain point (which varies from context to context) is to receive a decreasing return on that input."

 

You might consider moving up a notch, but not all the way to bling. Maybe cartridge bearings and lower weight would be fun to play with, and...

 

I don't know, for the biggest "bang for the buck," it is hard to beat Shimano. Yes, they have loose ball bearings that require periodic maintenance and Shimano hubs are not the lightest. But for durability and quietness, nothing beats them.  I usually get Dura Ace or Ultegra hubs, but that is because I *think* their cups and cones and better polished and should last longer. Further, if you buy from one of the UK retailers, DA/ultegra hubs are substantially cheaper than most of the boutiques like King,Phi, White, DT, etc. Good Luck!

[Mojo]

Hi Jim,

I would argue, cheap hubs work just as well as the most expensive hubs, so any modern-designed, clean hub will maximize function. Maintenance of a loose bearing hub is ~15 minutes, once a year or so, so I would argue that is trivial too. Then it comes down to what appeals to you for its cool/bling/status factor. I like interesting different front hubs and have an old Mavic and three Suntour front hubs, Rivendell used to sell for $25, that I like to look at when I am not riding but am staring at my own bikes. I can say I never think about my hubs when I am riding.

I like to put my money into more expensive frames, cranks, rims, tires, and saddles & handlebars that fit. 

Chains, hubs, derailers, cassettes, bottom brackets, headsets are where I cut costs when needed. 

[Chris Chen]

I chose to go with White Industries T11 for my latest build, not particularly for utility, but because I wanted to maximize my bicycle's domestic content, and I have the means to do so.

But DAMN SON THAT STUFF'S SHINY

cc

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[Patrick Moore]

Some of the smoothest hubs I've ever ridden were old Campy Record that, as far as the owner knew, hadn't been serviced for a decade or more. 

The corollary to that experience is that I often look for older, used, high quality hubs and buy them when they are cheap. (This method also pretty much ensures that the hubs are always nicely polished silver.) Old 6 and 7 and 8 speed Ultegra and Dura Ace, old Campy. 

I put many dry but dusty commuting miles on one of those $25 Suntour hubs that Joe mentions and it was a great hub, but it was also the one hub in living memory, mine at least, that required bearing replacement before I trashed, sold, or got tired of the wheel.

My unserviced Phils have 12K dry/dusty miles -- actually, the front replaced a SunTour and was well used; I have no idea how many miles on it; and I can't notice any difference from new. Ditto the many Phil bottom bracket bearing assemblies I've owned.

And the old, higher-end Shimanos also seem to go thousands of unserviced miles without getting rough or loose.

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:03 AM, 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

. I like interesting different front hubs and have an old Mavic and three Suntour front hubs, Rivendell used to sell for $25, that I like to look at when I am not riding but am staring at my own bikes. I can say I never think about my hubs when I am riding.

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[Mike Schiller]

I have Miche Racing box hubs on two of my bikes. They are pretty quiet, use cartridge bearings and are made in Italy.  The skewers are kinda of an eyesore(for me, but easy to replace) but the hubs have seen a lot of dirty rough miles without an issue. The SRAM/shimaNo version is only available from Euro retailers but it easy to get and they run about $100 a set.  http://www.wiggle.com/miche-racing-box-pair-of-hubs/

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Ryan]

Gotta agree with you there. Old Campy hubs seem to roll smoothly virtually forever. I also  like the older (early to mid nineties Mavic 501's) and those XC9000 suntour hubs Riv was blowing out.

 

I've also used older 600, RX100 and 105 hubs from Shimano and I can't complain about them at all. I bet newer shimano sealed hubs work just fine, depending on what gearing configuration you are using. Probably any hub works OK if the wheel's well-built

[Philip Williamson]

Engagement is the only issue I find between Shimano hubs and "boutique" hubs, but my experience of cassette hubs is pretty limited, due to a long-lasting fixed gear obsession. 

My Bontrager/King hubs have only been serviced once, about 10 years ago, but the "ring drive" engagement is a real joy compared to the Shimano Deore hub that I've put a lot of miles on. I don't consider the Deore hub to be a mountain bike hub at all, and I'm not considering Shimano hubs for my 'dream' wheelset for the New Gravel Roadster. I want White, King, or Hope hubs for that, a choice that comes down to "have a connection to" vs "have the money for." 

But... I just bought a $75 CL wheelset with "Concept" hubs, so expedience wins. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

On Monday, May 5, 2014 8:14:15 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:

[Jim Bronson]

I have a Deore LX hub on my Rivendell right now and the engagement is not an issue.  I had some older bikes a while back with Shimano hubs, a Cannondale with 9 speed Ultegra everything on it and my Paul Taylor with some older vintage DuraAce from the 90s and on both of those bikes it was more noticable than the higher end hubs I had kicking around such as Chris King and DT Swiss.

I don't know if a 2013 Deore hub has more pawls as compared to a 2004 vintage Ultegra hub or late 90s Dura Ace but I don't notice slack in the pickup like I did.  Or maybe I'm just a much more mellow rider than I was 10-12 years ago.  Being over 40 does that to you ;)

I have the opposite problem with the Chris King, it gets sticky when you transition from pedaling to coasting, and the chain whacks the chainstay.  If it's been a while since it's been serviced, the problem gets worse. It's never really been quite right.  In that light I have been disappointed with the Chris King, which is why I am looking at not going forward with it on the new build.  I have thought maybe I'm putting on the quick release too tight but going looser didn't really make a difference.

On the flip side, I do enjoy the bumblebee noise ;)

I do have some Campy rear hubs sitting around but I have made the decision not to use Campy stuff if I can avoid it because Campy parts are expensive.  I can buy two or three Shimano cassettes for the cost of a Campy cassette, for example.  There's also the fact that Campy 9/10/11 hubs have more offset and build a weaker wheel.  Not good for a 270 lb rider.

Of course, if someone made a Shimano freehub body that fit on a Campy hub, it might be a consideration...I have a brand new early 2000s Chorus hub just sitting in my parts bin.  Also have a used Record hub of about the same vintage, the rim it was laced to got too out of whack to ride anymore.

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[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, May 5, 2014 3:16:36 PM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:

I do have some Campy rear hubs sitting around but I have made the decision not to use Campy stuff if I can avoid it because Campy parts are expensive.  I can buy two or three Shimano cassettes for the cost of a Campy cassette, for example.  

 

I agree that if you buy Campy cassettes, they can be very expensive, especially anything with ti cogs!  However, since cassettes are consumables, I don't need anything ti and I found that Centaur/Veloce level cassettes ordered thru the UK dealers to not be too bad. For example, I still run 9 speed and a Campy Veloce 9 spd 13-28 cassette is about $49. In contrast, they also sell an off-brand called BBB and its 9 speed 12-27 cassette sells for $36. Not too bad.

 

There's also the fact that Campy 9/10/11 hubs have more offset and build a weaker wheel.  Not good for a 270 lb rider.

 

The offset doesn't build that weak a wheel, but I agree that if you're 270lb, it is best not to chance it! 

Of course, if someone made a Shimano freehub body that fit on a Campy hub, it might be a consideration...I have a brand new early 2000s Chorus hub just sitting in my parts bin.  Also have a used Record hub of about the same vintage, the rim it was laced to got too out of whack to ride anymore.

 

I would be interested in either hub if you want to sell! Email me off-list if you do. Thanks!  

[Ron Mc]

My daughter's go-fast has a 1400g wheelset built on bikehubstore hubs with Kinlin rims by Hoops (nice guy and builds nice wheels).  If how long it will free-spin on the bikestand counts for anything, these hubs are more efficient than my Phil wheelset.  

What is the advantage of the Phil?  If you buy a used wheelset, you know it's got many miles left in it

[Ron Mc]

I'm riding C-Record/ Moskva rims on my go-fast and it's a heavy wheelset, but is very nice.  I put in new Boca ceramic balls and adjusted the cones in place on the frame.  I've never been on a quieter ride.  

[Lynne Fitz]

when I was spec'ing out my Sweetpea build, I specified the same component set as the Bleriot - the shiny silver curvy Shimano compatible gruppo :-) Bleriot has a Shimano rear hub of some variety; still going strong after 13000 miles.

For Sweetpea, the builder suggested several hubs, and I was leaning toward the Suzue Classica, until I looked at the White H3. Shinier. Curvier. Lighter. MUSA. a bit more expensive, but at this point I was beyond worrying about that. 14500 miles. One overhaul after being drowned on a flooded road. Still very, very shiny. The wheel still spins forever. Worth every penny.

[Michael Hechmer]

Lots of interesting posts here, although rather off topic.  I'd like to come back to the OP original question.  How much value does the buyer get from hi end vs. low end hubs?

There are a number of variables - how much maintenance, how long the life expectancy, how smooth the bearings, how big the price differential?  And, I think its fair to ask how much of the original low cost comes with exploitation of the people who make the parts.  I ride a bike to feel good, not to practice denial about my fellow wo/man.

I agree the old campy SR & NR hubs, which were expensive to buy actually turned out to be a great value because they lasted one day shy of forever.  I have only recently retired my last NR hub when the threads for the freewheel gave out after tens of thousands of miles.  They did need to be overhauled regularly, but this was a pretty easy process, requiring 13 & 14 mm cone wrenches. They have a well designed lock washer which makes adjustment really easy.

My experience has been that Ultegra hubs also have a pretty long life expectancy but are not quite as easy to overhaul or adjust as the campys.  However my experience with 105 hubs has been less than satisfactory.  I bought a pair for my commuter.  Admittedly my commute was more hub challenging than most - 30 miles round trip, including 10 miles of dirt roads, and life in green and rainy Vermont.  The 105 hubs did not seal as well as either the campy or ultra hubs and required much more frequent overhaul than them.  Further, for some reason I never fathomed they did not hold there adjustment.  I would meticulously adjust them only to find them a bit loose a month later.  It wasn't just me, a local pro mechanic chastised my hub adjustment but I found his faulty the next time I checked them.

Over the past few years I have gone exclusively to White Ind hubs.  My tandem, my rambouillet and my trek all have WI hubs.  Only my Saluki has the the XTR hubs it came with.  These hubs are about $100 less than Phil Wood, about the same as Ultegra, have never required a minute of maintenance, will no doubt will out live me, and were made by people being paid a living wage and working in a safe environment.  

My professional career included a stint as a cost engineer for IBM.  I learned that virtually everything has a cost performance curve with one or two sharp breaks in it.  Quality improves rapidly up to a certain point, then cost rise much more rapidly than value add.  And off course there is individual utility.  If you are heading out for Terra del Fuego then by every penny spent on a phil wood hubs will yield 10 fold in piece of mind.  OTOH if all you are doing is going 3 miles across town to the office, 105 is no doubt the way to go.  If you only ride three times a year then the only argument left against $25 hubs is the life of the worker, not the life of the hub.

Michael

[Tom Harrop]

Hi Jim & others,

Thought I'd share my experience. I'm not planning to buy boutique hubs again, mainly because service is difficult to come by outside the US. I had a Phil Wood hub go bad within about 3–6 months (failed ratchet ring). The tools for replacing the ratchet ring are apparently not available to bike shops, so only Phil Wood HQ could fix it. The hub was out of warranty when I finally contacted them (it took me ages to work out the problem was coming from the hub). They told me that I should've been servicing it regularly, and quoted $165 plus shipping from Australia to the US and back.

Long story short, after I asked again they agreed to look at the hub, and after I returned it to them they sent me a new hub for free. The bike was out of action for several weeks while the hub was being shipped back and forth but I really appreciated that they gave me a new hub when they weren't obliged to.

Unfortunately, the new hub is now starting to show the same symptoms as the old one. I guess it's just bad luck—they're really nice hubs and I know most people have decades of trouble-free service from them, but I'll eventually just replace it with a Shimano LX or XT or something rather than go through the whole procedure of returning it again.

Tom

[Jim Bronson]

Michael,

I enjoyed your post quite a bit, but the one part I would have to quibble with is the cost of Ultegra hubs vs. White Industries' hubs.  You said they were on par.  I can get an Ultegra for about 1/3rd of the cost of the White Industries hub.  For example,

http://www.ebikestop.com/shimano_ultegra_6800_36h_11_speed_rear_hub-HU6713.php

This is the least expensive White Industries' hub I found in a few minutes of Google searching, my application has 132.5 spacing so I do either, this one is 135.  (The T11 road hub is more  $$):

https://www.benscycle.com/p-3723-white-industries-m15-rear-hub.aspx?zmam=67843234&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=9308&gclid=CO2P16CKmL4CFUQF7AodjFcA2g

Your discussion of 105 vs Ultegra is pretty interesting also and got me to thinking about what could be different.  I guess it depends on what series we are talking about.  It seems that Shimano practices a sort of technology trickle down of sorts.  For example this generation Ultegra integrates features that were new on Dura Ace's last generation, and 105 integrates features that were new on Dura Ace two generations ago, and so forth.  Of course, neither applies to fancy metals like titanium and so forth, those are probably always going to be a Dura Ace only feature.

Shimano has some pretty extensive technical documentation, so I found the doc for the exploded view of the 5600 series 105 rear hub.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/FH/EV-FH-5600-2458C_v1_m56577569830728267.pdf

It seems that the seal ring(s) are the same part that are used on the 6600 series Ultegra, but that other parts of the "lock nut unit" differ.  I don't know which one of those that differ would cause it to not hold adjustment.  Being that the seal unit is the same though, the hubs not sealing as well is a bit curious.

Perhaps then, you were using a 6700 series Ultegra?

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/FH/EV-FH-6700-2932_v1_m56577569830670816.pdf

This unit seems to have much less in common with the 6600 and 5600 units.  The SKUs for the lock nut unit and the seals are not interchangeable with the 6600/5600 units.  There also seems to be less individual components to the exploded view of the lock nut units on these hubs.

Now, the current production 105 hub is the 5700 series.  It appears to be more similar to the 6700 series Ultegra hub, but unfortunately compatibility is only listed in the tech document between the 5700 and older 105 series hubs.  So you have to manually compare SKUs.  The left hand seal unit is the same on the 5700 and 6700 hubs.  The right hand unit has a slightly different part number.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/FH/EV-FH-5700-3006A_v1_m56577569830702943.pdf

Anyway, I guess my conclusion would be, I'm thinking you were not comparing hubs of the same technology level, maybe a 6700 versus a 5600, or a 6600 vs a 5500.

Sorry this is so long, just thought it was interesting.

-Jim

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[Bill Lindsay]

For rear hubs, if I want to go the best I can possibly get for UBER-cheap, I like to go used Shimano M737.  $25-$30 used.  Tremendous value, and they come with one of the best QR skewers of all time. 

If I'm sparing no expense, White Industries.  I have sworn off aluminum cassette bodies forever. 

On Monday, May 5, 2014 8:14:15 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:

[Jim Bronson]

I saw one of those M737 hubs NOS on fleabay and also some used ones.  They look nice and high-polish shiny.  I assume they are 8/9/10 compatible, yes?  Info was not available on the Shimano techdocs website :(

I think they purge anything document related that's more than around 3 or 4 generations old.

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[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, M747s are 8/9/10 compatible.  I use them on several bikes using 8 and 9.  My only 10 speed rear end has a White T11 (with a spacer!).  haha

[Michael Hechmer]

Thanks, Jim.  I'm not sure which version of 105 hubs I had.  They came on my Rambouillet, circa 2004??  It's been a long time since I bought an ultegra hub, but I remember paying  about $200 for the rear and the last White hub was about $250.T15 I think.  I haven't priced them recently.

Michael

[Hugh Flynn]

Starting a new thread with this as I'm heading off on a slightly tangental path: 

How frequently do folks overhaul their cup/cone hubs? 

I have too many bikes to make this a yearly task, so I just check my hubs periodically and replace bearings/cones/grease if something starts to feel gritty or otherwise unpleasant. I have some wheels that haven't required attention in 10 years (curiously, they were all built with the Suntour XC front hubs Riv had on sale about 10 years ago…). Others, like those my winter bike, require yearly maintenance after the snow/salt bath that is New England winter cycling. 

Freehub lubrication is something I haven't been able to get right yet though. Are the freehub bodies that are sold on non-shimano hubs easier to service than shimano freehub bodies? 

I have an Ultegra freehub that has seen better much better days, but I have not been able to figure out a good way to get grease/oil into the thing. Perhaps it's time to consider an oil bath like we used to do with freewheels. 

Hugh "dry ride" Flynn

Newburyport, MA

[kwhiner]

Agree with the idea of using older XT hubs have been using XT M730 hubs I found on fleabay and converted w/8910 speed freehub body. Can use spacer for 7 speed or 8,9,10 speed cassettes w/o. Presently set for 9 index, fiction otherwise.

[Bruce Herbitter]

The 105 hubs on my Ram needed service at about 7,500 miles. 

[Ron Mc]

Hugh, I rolled 20,000 miles on Zeus GS hubs rebuilding them about every 5000 miles.  Just this year I noticed a gritty rear cone.  I'm taking the approach with my used C-Record hubs of rebuilding them every year, and replacing the balls, and using ceramic - this is my go-fast, and a high-mileage bike for me.  

For lower mileage, I would recommend rebuilding them every 3-5 years for the sake of the grease - it will slowly decompose to wax and mild acid over time.  

[Hugh Flynn]

Many thanks for the input. 

It looks like I'm past due for overhauls on a few of my wheels then. They still roll smoothly, but could probably use a greece refresh. 

Next question: Where are people buying bearings? I used to order mine through loose screws, but I see they have left the business. 

Hugh Flynn

Newburyport, MA

[Ginz]

Regarding M737 hubs, this is a good resource for researching older MTB parts -- especially shimano and suntour.  Whenever I want to see if parts are compatable, what configurations they came in or what sizes were available, i just search for the model number.  Sometimes, there are even catalog scans that show you the whole parts group for the era.  

http://mombat.org/Shimano.htm#1996

[Ron Mc]

I buy BOCA bearings, and from his mailing list, he'll send you discounts and sales all the time (that's when I buy them, to keep the cost down...)

Here's the place for cones

http://www.bikeman.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BIKEMAN&Category_Code=Campagnolo_Cones&CpField=&CpValue=&SortBy=name-asc&show=500

[Hugh Flynn]

Bikeman - nice. 

I've actually been to the Bikeman shop as they are  semi-local to me (if you count a shop two states away as semi-local). I hadn't thought of them as a source for bearings. Back in the day they used to be a great source for discontinued "classic" mt. bike parts. 

Thanks. 

[Scott Henry]

I would be hard pressed to find a LBS that couldn't get you bearings.

QBP lists over 20 different loose ball bearing items in different sizes and grades.

[Jim Bronson]

Regarding this discussion, one of my hub criteria was that it was well sealed against water intrusion.  Maybe it's something a lost cause?

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part4/section-2.html

Perhaps the question should be not which is best sealed, but rather that which is easier to re-lubricate?

[Ron Mc]

agree - they come in Big jars.  I've been to bike shops to buy bearing balls to rebuild antique fishing reels in the past. 

this is how I buy bike parts - repairing OPs antique fly reels.  

[Ron Mc]

Jim, BOCA makes a sealed bearing set for that application  

http://search.bocabearings.com/search?w=shimano%20xt%20bottom%20bracket

[Montclair BobbyB]

Love to find deals on Shimano m730s and older Suntour hubs... in fact, here's a smokin' deal on a set of NOS XC hubs on eBay (if you like 32H hubs... personally I prefer 36H):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Suntour-XC-Pro-Grease-Guard-Hubset-32H-Rare-Free-shipping-in-the-USA-/321298346476?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acedfb1ec

Admittedly I run Kings and Hadleys on my mountain bikes... They're expensive, but light, reliable and extremely high quality.  But I'm still a sucker for deals on the older Japanese hubs. 

[Jim Bronson]

Those are for bottom brackets.

3/16th ball bearings for Shimano cup and cone...

http://search.bocabearings.com/search?w=shimano+xt+hub

[Ron Mc]

sorry, I thought that was the question 

[C.J. Filip]

When I upgraded the stock LX/Rigida wheel set on my Saluki to a Schmitt (Son Delux wide) and ~1998 XTR-centered hubs, the choice on this medley was made by a mixture of bling, the best I could afford, current technology and aesthetics.

I splurged on the dynamo, got a great deal on NOS XTR hubs and they both just happen to be sexy.

[Jim Bronson]

I tried to grab an old school XTR off of eBay and someone outbid me with 2 seconds left.  :(  

Granted, I had outbid them with 15 seconds left...oh well, guess it takes two to tango. 

I gave up and just got a silver FH-T780 current gen XT hub.  It doesn't look as nice and shiny as the old school one but who knows when another NOS XTR will come up...and I need to build my wheel.  I suppose I could have the hubshell powdercoated in shiny silver, I know that is possible ;)

So to answer my own question, no, I don't perceive an advantage to the bling hubs.  The price differential was just too much for me.  Some of the more affordable cartridge bearing hubs either didn't come in 135 (many), or 36h (bikehubstore.com), weren't available in silver (silver) or had some other undesirable aesthetic characteristic (miche and their red axles, for one).  I set a max price of $100.  The XT I got was $49+tax with free shipping and I'm satisfied.

I guess the next question would be, what's the best grease for loose ball bearing hubs ;)  I stopped into Performance today to pick up some various stuff and their shop guys like the DuraAce grease.  It says on the tube that it's made in Germany.  Interesting because you would think most Shimano stuff is produced in Asia.

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:40 PM, C.J. Filip <c.j....@hotmail.com> wrote:

When I upgraded the stock LX/Rigida wheel set on my Saluki to a Schmitt (Son Delux wide) and ~1998 XTR-centered hubs, the choice on this medley was made by a mixture of bling, the best I could afford, current technology and aesthetics.

I splurged on the dynamo, got a great deal on NOS XTR hubs and they both just happen to be sexy.

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[Bill Lindsay]

the dark green park polylube stuff is fine. 

[Anton Tutter]

On Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:56:28 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:

I tried to grab an old school XTR off of eBay and someone outbid me with 2 seconds left.  :( 

Almost everyone uses proxy bidders, aka sniping software, to automatically bid at the last moment.  There were probably several snipes being made all in the last couple of seconds. You can't gauge how high something will go by what the current bid is.  It's irrelevant.  

[Mike Schiller]

something to add to the discussion,the LX hubs are considered a better hub than the newer XT's.  The XT' went to an aluminum axle and smaller balls. Less durable than the the LX.  

The LX model is a little shinier too, they are built for the Euro trekking market and not that available in the US.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca.

[Jim Bronson]

It has smaller ball bearings, but more of them, 13x 3/16ths bearings versus 9x 1/4 ths bearings.  I don't view the aluminum axle as a liability.  This bike will be ridden on road exclusively, and with 650b x 42 mm tires, so not exactly a harsh operating environment.

I looked at the tech documents before making my selection.  On paper the XT looks superior to my eyes.  But I'll have a good point of comparison, I own one of the LX hubs also.

[Tom Harrop]

Forgive the minor thread hijack, but actually I'd love to hear some more opinions on XT vs LX hubs. I couldn't work out which are 'better' because there are (of course) different criteria for different purposes. For my purposes, weight is completely irrelevant. I want the better sealed, more durable hub that will be able to take my considerable weight when ridden off-road. Does anyone know if one is better than the other in this case?

[Brewster Fong]

On Friday, May 9, 2014 1:43:05 PM UTC-7, Tom Harrop wrote:

Forgive the minor thread hijack, but actually I'd love to hear some more opinions on XT vs LX hubs. I couldn't work out which are 'better' because there are (of course) different criteria for different purposes. For my purposes, weight is completely irrelevant. I want the better sealed, more durable hub that will be able to take my considerable weight when ridden off-road. Does anyone know if one is better than the other in this case?

 Alex Wetmore warned of the problems with the XT (M770) hubs that have aluminum axles:

 

"There is one major problem with the LHT wheels. *They are using the
FH-M770 rear hub, which has smaller bearings (3/16") than standard
Shimano rear hubs (1/4") and uses aluminum axles with easy to strip
threads.

I knew about the smaller bearings, but just learned about the aluminum
axle this weekend with a friend visited with a "broken" one. *When he
took it apart in my shop he discovered that the end cap had stripped
the threads in the axle. *I took a photo which you can find here:

http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Shimano-XT-Aluminum-Axle/10997988_eTAGA#768940509_7GQHt

The axle in the rear is a standard 10mm steel Shimano hub axle. *You
can see that the thread pitch and the height of the threads is the
same on each.  He had not adjusted the bearings from the Shimano
factory before having this failure. *I personally think that this is a
silly place to save weight on a touring bike and would recommend LX
hubs over XT ones for touring and commuting wheelsets. *Since the end
cap is also used to preload the bearings it will not be fully threaded
onto the axle. *In this case it looks like it was being held on with only two or three
threads.  I was disappointed to see this "development".

*XT has almost always been light in smart ways, so that it ends up a
little lighter than LX without giving up any durability. *Now it looks
like LX is the durable group and My heavy duty city/tour wheelset is
built on plain Deores. The bearing feel is phenomenal compared to even
five years ago. The seals are magnificent. They just need a little
touch of the cone wrench out of the box."

On the other hand, there are several shop owners out there, who see alot more XT hubs than Alex or myself and will swear that the XT hub is reliable. Do you homework and decide. Good Luck! 

[justin...@gmail.com]

I got a new LX hub as part of a Handsoun wheel set and I like the shiny borderline Suntour gold vibe I get from it.

-J

[Mike Schiller]

real usage data is the best way to compare durability for these hubs. The XT has had a lot more axle breakage reports since the switch to aluminum. Yes it is a larger diameter axle to compensate for the much lower  yield strength, but the incidental data I've seen ( mostly MTB related) shows a much higher failure rate. Larger ball sizes increase lifespan as well BTW

Considering your weight the heavier LX hubs would most likely be more durable.  

~mike