Ram versus Roadeo; trade?

[Patrick Moore]

I love the Ram; it just "feels" right -- in the sense that it "encourages" hard pedaling, while some bikes just feel as if they drain your effort. 

But it feels slightly more sedate than my customs -- slower to "turn in"; while the customs seem to have most of the Ram's straight line stability. That is to say, it's not as spritely as the ideal bike. Also, I really, reeeeeeely want a light, steel gofast. I really don't need the Ram as another commuter/errand bike, which is what it gets used as, since my '03 handles those duties. 

I am aiming for the moon, but just in case: would anyone care to discuss trading a 57 cm Roadeo frame for a 58 cm Ram? Ultegra headset included; and I could add things to the Ram side of the scale until the swap is fair. In particular, I have a SP dynohub that I'd not include in any Roadeo build.

My other option is to buy (cheap) the 60X57 very early '80s Bertin -- long stays, short front-center, tres leger, Vitus IIRC, that I sold my brother back circa 1998 and that he now is selling. But it's not a Rivendell.

--

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.

By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

Other professional writing services.

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

Patrick Moore

Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

*************************************

   "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.

"Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?

 "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried. "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of you can find it?”     -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  

[Don Compton]

Patrick,
I hope you find your Roadeo. I used to own a 60cm Ram and always regretted selling it. I eventually bought a 59cm Roadeo and it's my favorite bike. Only slightly lighter and the handling is just a little more responsive without losing the Rivendell stable feel that I really like on fast, bumpy, curvy downhills. Good luck.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Don. If you ever decide that your switch from Ram to Roadeo was mistaken, drop me a line. (Add smiley face to indicate that I am kidding.)

Actually, don't bother, because I need a 57. You're safe.

Seriously, the Ram is a wonderful bike. I does encourage me to push, unlike other bikes that seem to "mute" one's efforts. But I think to myself that, even more desirable would be a similarly fitting bike that is several lbs lighter and slightly more nimble in handling. The Ram is an excellent all rounder -- if our dirt around here wasn't so sandy as to require 2"+ tires, it would be a wonderful, more road-like "country" bike with 35 mm or fatter tires -- 35 mm Kojaks leave considerable space between tire and metal.

We'll see about that Bertin. I'd build it up as a stripped down gofast with a 1XN drivetrain or perhaps this would be the one to build up with a S3X hub run with a freewheel.

Actually, I'd do better to fret less and ride the bikes I have more.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Don Compton]

Patrick,
To your benefit, I think the 57's and smaller sizes use lighter tubing than the 59's and up. Also, threadless headsets save quite a bit of weight and are stiffer. I have a conventional quill stem, but I have lighter bikes if I feel the need.

[Dave Johnston]

26" wheel bikes like your customs have a feel all there own that you won't be able to duplicate with ANY 700c wheel bike. How much is the weight difference between the frames anyway? a half pound?

-Dave J

[Patrick Moore]

I want a bike that handles a bit more nimbly than the Ram. It need not handle like my 26-inch wheeled bikes which, however, handle in a very "normal" way, with the Rivendell signature straight line stability but nice turn in. They are so "normal" that I don't even consider their wheel size when considering handling.

Their "own" feel is simply Rivendelian.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Patrick Moore]

Where I *do* notice a difference with the smaller-wheeled bikes is in the sense of momentum, be this fixed or free. The Ram, for instance, just feels like it wants to "keep on going" once it is up to speed; the smaller, lighter wheels (with the weight closer to the axis of rotation, too) don't give that wonderful feeling.

The '95 did feel different, at least with 22 mm tires. It felt too quick, though with 32 mm Paselas it felt fine. But Grant got the '99 and the '03 just right; their geometry is considerably different -- much longer stays, slacker head, possibly other tweaks as well.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/07/2014 07:28 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

I want a bike that handles a bit more nimbly than the Ram. It need not handle like my 26-inch wheeled bikes which, however, handle in a very "normal" way, with the Rivendell signature straight line stability but nice turn in. They are so "normal" that I don't even consider their wheel size when considering handling.

How about one of these?

[William!]

I recently built up a Roadeo (purchased here from a list member) and it's about the most fun I've ever had on a "road" bike. It's as fast and responsive on the road as any bike I've owned, but if I decide to take a left turn and do some light trail/gravel/dirt riding – well, it handles that just fine too (riding Jack Browns). Only taken it on day rides so far, but it seems as comfortable as my Atlantis (it is set up very similarly – noodle bars, roughly the height of my saddle). We'll see how it does on longer rides – looking forward to some brevets and maybe some superlight (hammock/credit card) touring.

If you are into the Rivendell philosophy but still enjoy riding fast, pushing yourself a bit, etc – I think the Roadeo would be a really great fit.

William

[Dave Johnston]

A couple other things to consider.
1) When I switched from a slightly too big 58cm Ram to a slightly too small 56cm Ram,  I noticed that the smaller frame was noticeably more responsive, at all speed ranges. Not a huge change though. (I actually prefered the 58 but got used to the 56 pretty quickly)

2) For the past 10 yrs I've been running the 56cm Ram with 28mm tires and I recently switched to 31mm tires and those tires create more high speed stability, but I don't notice a low speed difference.

If you want light steel, you might consider welded as lugs add a half pound or so and Riv's aren't really going for light weight to begin with.

-Dave J

On Sunday, July 6, 2014 4:15:27 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

The perhaps unobtainable ideal would be the lightest possible Rivendell road bike, but I'd accept a bit of weight for the signature feel and handling which is the principal goal. My objection, such as it is, to the Ram is not so much the weight (IIRC, built but not accessorized it weighs 26 lb with rack, dynamo lighting, compared to ~23 for the errand custom similarly equipped -- but that is fixed, of course) but that the handling is a wee bit staider than ideal -- but "ideal" here is rather nebulous.

My brother ought to be bringing the old Bertin (60 X 57 or so) out with him, and perhaps that's the most reasonable option. He says it handles very well, and I know the frameset is quite light. But it's not a Rivendell, alas.

Move along there. Bertin (if I buy it) build: my idea at the moment is a 1X5 or perhaps a S3X with freewheel -- keep it very simple (and light) as befits a dedicated fw gofast. Or better yet, one of those (forget who makes them) 120 mm OL spaced cassette hubs for a 1X7.

I've got the build parts: frame comes with headset; plenty of TA Pro 5 Vis cranksets and rings, cogs, front hubs, a 7400 rd, very nice old 600 single pivots, 7400 DA levers, KEO Maxes, shift lever, original issue Flite. Will need bb, rims, tires, stem and bar ... oh dear, another build project.

We'll see. If I do buy a frame, of any kind, it will be to wait for good deals and gather parts slowly and cheaply. It's not as if I don't have enough bikes to ride as it is.

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Dave Johnston <jdi...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you want light steel, you might consider welded as lugs add a half pound or so and Riv's aren't really going for light weight to begin with.

-Dave J

[lungimsam]

Actually I don't see why they don't do eyelets a plenty on Roadeos for maximum options on a fast bike.

I don't think it defeats the purpose for light commuters, Randonneurs, or roadies.

What I don't get it the placement of the chain stay eyelet for rear fender. How do you fender that? Seems so far away from the tire, and in the tightest area if the stays, so looks like the fender won't fit between the status there?

[Shoji Takahashi]

I think the number of eyelets and braze ons are limited on the Roadeos because it is (1) purpose built as "go fast" and (2) weight!

I'm guessing that the weight issue was an important target for Grant/Riv: sub-20# steel bike. 

A full complement of frame braze ons can add a lot of weight (relatively speaking) to a light frame. Same goes for down tube shifter mounts (which were purposefully left off in order to use certain type of butted downtube). And the use of threadless stem compared to quill. 

The chain stay fender mount: yes, it is not optimal (from a fender installation point), but a long-ish spacer solves that problem. IIRC, the bottom bracket shell is not a Riv-bottom bracket. A different one was selected to use a particular seat tube. (I could just be making this up, so anyone with real info please speak up.)

Anyway: I'm pretty sure this isn't the first Roadeo having added braze ons. IIRC, someone had seat stay rack mount added, and Grant/Riv has written about putting downtube shifter mounts on Roadeos. If you're in the market for it, you should have that conversation with them-- I think they're quite accommodating (but there might be another bike that's better suited for your intended purpose). 

Happy riding!

Shoji

[Paul G]

I know this is an old thread but I thought I'd add some input for archival purposes. Who knows? It might help someone who's doing a search.

I had downtube shifter bosses and a chainstay-mounted chain hanger peg custom installed on my Roadeo. Each item (the two shifter bosses count as a single item) was $50 extra. According to Mark at Rivendell, the same downtube was used on my bike whether it was shifter bosses or cable stops that was chosen. He stated along the lines that if a different downtube had been used it would have been more expensive than the production flow of that model would have allowed.

I have seen photos of a Roadeo with fork blade rack mounts so that also appears to be an option.

The seat tube has a visible external butt as it rises out of the bottom bracket shell. The tube becomes skinnier about 2 inches above the shell. This could explain the possibility of a different (non-Riv?) BB shell that Shoji Takahashi mentioned.

As for fender mounting at the chainstay/BB area, I found that 35mm of spacers was just right for SKS fenders on my 61cm with Jack Browns.

Finally, I find my Roadeo handles a good deal more responsively when I use Grand Bois Cerf 28's when compared to Jack Brown Greens. The JB's are more cushy and stable feeling when cruising around and commuting, etc., but the GB 28's transform the bike into a more sporty feeling bike with stability-in-a-straight-line still, but noticeably more lively steering. More racy feeling. The ride of the GB's is also firmer when inflated to appropriately safe pressures (I can't run them as low as the Jack Browns). The JB's are currently on the bike for winter duty but I'll put the GB's sans fenders back on for summer.

[Don Compton]

Paul,
what psi are you running your Grand Bois 28 tires With my 23mm rims, I run 55front, 65rear.

[Paul G]

I weigh about 160 and use about 60 front and 70 rear on 23mm rims. I subtract about 15 psi each for the Jack Brown greens, but go longer between pumpings so they end up lower eventually.

The GB 28's are fantastic and I'd like to try the 32mm versions or Compass equivalents eventually.

[William Henderson]

This may have been covered, but has anyone tried the Barlow Pass tires on a Roadeo? This review says they fit, though I wonder with how much room to spare...

http://www.roadbikerider.com/product-reviews/wheels-tires/compass-barlow-pass-extralight-700-x-38-tires

—
William
Sent from my iPhone

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ERQpRseoHWw/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.