Question on Big Ben handling

[DS]

Does anyone notice or have any input on handling with a Big Ben or balloon type tire? Especially on cornering on fast descents?

Reason I ask is, I just bought some Big Bens (26 x 2.15) for my Hunqapillar for mixed ride use. Took them out for a first ride a few weeks ago, had a bad crash while on a somewhat but not terribly fast descent on pavement, turning into a curve, though I'm 95% sure it was due to a way under inflated tire (I had a flat about 20 minutes before that on the trails and replaced tube but feel I did not inflate enough for the ride home). 

Today, went out with properly-ish inflated tires (34 front, 40 psi rear), but still felt like the bike was squirrely on turns and it felt like the bike was going to slide out underneath me on some moderate turns, so I took them pretty slow. But, it was also my first ride back since the crash, so maybe that had something else to do with it. Anyone else have any comments on the handling of these? Am I imagining things and being overly sensitive due to the crash and this is user error?

[hsmitham]

DS,

Really can't give any feedback as I'm in the same boat. I just mounted some BB'S on my Atlantis. My first ride will be this weekend. Looking forward to others feedback. Hope your okay. Poor cornering would have me freaked out.

Cheers,


~Hugh
Los Angeles, CA

[Kurt Manley]

I have Big Apples which are pretty similar and they corner great. Do you have them mounted on rims that are wide enough? I have had issues with stability when I mounted too wide of a tire on a narrow rim. Sheldon has a chart that is pretty good for rim width and tire size compatibility.

[Tony DeFilippo]

To-narrow rims could definitely be part of it. I found BA's to be fairly rolly below 30PSI on the old stock rims of my '93 MB-5.  I also relate to the post-crash 'oversensitivity/analysis' on everything bike related...  

[Jack]

I had 50 X 700 Big Bens on my Hunqapillar and did not notice any handling problems. I switched to the 40mm Little Big Bens to gain some fender clearance. They have the same tread design as the regular BB and they also perform very well. However, I ride mostly in flat country and haven't done what I would call a fast cornering descent.  

[David Stein]

Good point on the rims. I'll have to measure, but they're the stock wheelset rims (aeroheat)  that came w/ the hunqapillar outfitted w/ Smart Sam 2.1's, so I assume if they're wide enough for the smart sams they're wide enough for the 2.15 big bens.

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[drew beckmeyer]

i have 700x50 big apples on dyad rims. i think the dyad and aeroheat are the same width. no problems with the tires yet, and they are riv approved. that being said, the chart on sheldon brown seems to indicate that they are too large for the dyad rim width. the chart on the schwalbe site says it's no problem as long as they are inflated no more than 45 psi (if im remembering this all correctly.)  to my eye, which are more used to smaller tires, they look slightly too big for the rim. 

at any rate, they work. i ride them and i've had no problems, but i do have a semi anxious voice in the back of my mind about it sometimes. 

On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 2:29:09 PM UTC-8, DS wrote:

[David Stein]

The rivbike site doesn't seem to say anything about rim widths. And I'm too lazy to check my own right now. Are all the velocity wheelset rims one standard rim width? or can it vary?

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[comveo]

Hey there,

Just thought I'd share. I have 26 x 2.15 BB's on a pair of Velocity NoBS(same outer width as Atlas @ 25.4mm) rims on an old rigid Hardrock, and 700 x 2.15 BB's on Velocity Cliffhangers(~28mm wide) on my Hunqapillar. I really like these tires.

Although not exactly the same rim setup as yours, mine being wider, I have noticed some tire squirm on both bikes in even moderate speed turns when the pressure drops below about psi 35psi front/rear.

I'm about 185lb. 

It's a bit more pronounced on the Hunqapillar than the 26" bike, I feel. And that's with one of the widest rim-brake compatible rims still left on the market(Cliffhanger)....

I only really feel the squirm on pavement, but it's there for sure. Maybe since the Hunq is so stiff, it stands out more? Like a shovel stuck in a bucket of Jello..(that's an extreme exaggeration) Could just be dreaming...

On dirt though, it doesn't really bother me at all somehow. 

On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 5:29:09 PM UTC-5, DS wrote:

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi DS,

I have 26" Big Bens on my Hunqapillar. I find the cornering to-be squirrely on roads if the tire pressure is too low (and cornering speeds are somewhat high). Easily resolved by raising the pressure a bit. If you're going on a mixed terrain ride, I'd say pump 'em up a little more.

Shoji

On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 5:29:09 PM UTC-5, DS wrote:

[Hugh Smitham]

I concur with Shoji, that's been my experience thus far. A great rolling tire nonetheless.

Cheers,

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

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[David Stein]

Shoji and Hugh - what psi do you run at typically? understood that weigh of rider plus racks and bags and stuff can play into that. Thanks for the feedback though. Taking it out this weekend on an all pavement ride and will run at higher psi and be cautious on downhill turns. I also lowered my handlebars some which was also recommended.

[Jim Bronson]

Solid advice from Shoji and I think applicable to many tires, not just
the Big Bens. My LoupLoups get a bit squirrely on high speed
descending turns when pressure gets below 55 or so.

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

This is a bit of a quandary for me. I like high-volume (40mm+) tires as they provide a smoother ride at low pressure. But that low pressure in turn makes cornering unpleasant (at least for me). I dislike that squishy transition feeling that happens with low pressure at high speed turns. 

The obvious answer is to inflate them to a higher pressure, but that defeats the advantages of the high volume/low pressure tire. If I'm going to do that, I might as well stick w/ 33mm tires. 

Is this just me?

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hey DS,

IIRC, I ran mine ~20-35 psi. I'm about 155#, bike weighs ???, racks+bags+stuff ???, sometimes kid on a Burley Piccolo (whose weight keeps going higher) ... and the weight distribution changes for all those set ups.

TBH: I just pinch 'em now to make sure there seems to-be enough. There are a lot of potholes on my commute, and I prefer to protect the rim and prevent pinch flats than optimize for speed+comfort. But it still runs great! If the tires seem too hard (e.g., bouncing over small roots or rocks), then I'll bleed the air a bit. You will be able to tell when the pressure is too high; and the squirreley feel means it's too low.

I know this isn't very helpful information. But I think it is useful.

Get out and ride... carefully at first, and then you'll get a sense of what works for your setup, road/trail conditions, etc. Maybe risk a pinch flat to see how low to go. (Been there, done that. Sucks to have to change a flat on a commute.)

(Sorry if it sounds snarky-- that's not my intent.)

Enjoy the experience!

Shoji

[David Stein]

For me, really it's only been on these big bens. 2.1 smart sams and other various 40mm + tires have all seemed fine on pavement and cornering even at mid-thirties psi. Though it's only been 2 rides in on the big bens and I'm obviously way overthinking this in between rides ;) 

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[Marc Irwin]

I've been using 50-622 Big Ben's on my Hunq and have nothing but praise for them.  I'm using 40-60 lbs of pressure depending on the surface and 27mm Rhyno Lite rims.

Marc

[Tim Gavin]

I haven't tried Big Bens yet, but I run similar pressure on my 2.1" (55 mm) MK2 tires. They make a little noise and flex a bit in fast turns, but they never slide out on me. 

I've learned from riding my fat bike that soft, noisy tires can be ok (7-8 psi 4.5" studded tires). Of course, there's a washout point but I think it's below 20 psi for ~2" tires. I lower my front MK2 to ~25 psi for gravel, and it really floats without washing out. 35-40 psi should feel just right for Big Bens.

[Robert F. Harrison]

That's my setup on the Hunq as well. I find I'm most comfortable at around 45 on our roads here in Honolulu. I'll be honest though, I don't pay much attention, especially when I'm just riding in town. I generally pump 'em up to 55 and forget to do anything about it till they are noticeably soft. They have a big sweet spot, at least for me. 

I use my bike(s) for everything and tend to overload my bike when shopping and that's when I notice I'm a bit low. If cornering is soft when I have a couple of twelve packs (seltzer) in my hub area Sackvilles, a basket full of light items, and the rest packed away in my large Saddlesack I know it's time to top off the tires. 

Aloha, Bob

Robert Harrison

Honolulu, HI
rfhar...@gmail.com
statrix.com

Wu Name: Tha Eurythmic King of Nowhere

[Hugh Smitham]

David,

I've got some more feedback since I've been running em through the paces. Just did a mixed terrain ride up to Mount Lowe Trail Camp, about 50 miles & nearly 6000' elevation. About 70% was on pavement and 30% dirt rail trail with some technical sections with fist sized rocks, gravel & sand. So on the ride up my tire pressure was approximately 25-30 psi and the BB's handled like champs they really just floated over all of it. For a heavy tire weighing in at 760g they roll surprisingly fast.  

On the way down I deflated them to 20 psi if I thought they performed well at 30 psi they were even better at 20! The down hill off the mountain I rode is extremely steep with lots of curves & switch backs with loose hard pack. The asphalt had loose debris and is even steeper so I kept my speed down for safety, but I felt no discernible squirreliness on turns and yeah I know I contradicting my earlier comment above but I'm redacting that :) While riding on the hardtop they rolled fast and cushy. Here's the load I was carrying:

I'm 160# and carried a large sackville saddle bag weighing approximately 20 lbs and a shop sack up front weighing 6 lbs, plus 3 large water bottles.

My conclusion, these are really capable tires that I'll be using for a good long while.

Here's my Atlantis loaded:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pedalpusher61/15793428233/

Here's the terrain I/We rode.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37347002@N05/16413586922/

Here's the downhill asphalt section.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pedalpusher61/16413467805/

 Hope this helps.

Cheers,

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[DS]

Thanks for all the feedback, especially the detailed report from Hugh. I went out again today on a 27 mile all pavement ride with them pumped to about 40 psi (front and rear), still didn't feel comfortable with them, especially on the long fast twisty descents. Maybe its psychological (from the recent crash), maybe the rims (which i finally measured with a crude tape measure, look to be either 23 or 25mm on the outside, but still....fits 2.1 smart sams fine), but...I felt pretty uncomfortable with them, throwing the smart sams back on, they seemed to roll pretty well on the pavement anyway. 

Maybe the 2.0 Big Bens will be better than the 2.15's? Either way, not about to invest in new rims

If anyone wants to buy my 26 x 2.15 big bens let me know. 

[Jeremy Till]

One alternative thing to check before you completely give up on the big bens: are the tires evenly seated all the way around the rim?  Sometimes big, low pressure tires can have a bit of a wobble on the rim, caused by the bead being stuck down in the rim in parts.  I wouldn't be surprised if you could be feeling that wobbliness in cornering.  There is a line on the tire just above the bead called the "witness line." If you spin the wheel and examine the tire/rim interface as it's spinning, the witness line should sit just above the rim all the way around, not dive into the rim at any point.  

If you have any low spots, try pumping up the tire to maximum psi, or even a little bit higher, so see if you can get the bead to seat.  If there's still a low spot, deflate the tire and apply some soapy water between the bead in rim in the area where the low spot was before re-inflating to maximum psi (don't forget to wipe off your rim when you're done).  Once the tire's evenly seated, you can deflate back to your preferred riding pressure.

On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 2:29:09 PM UTC-8, DS wrote:

[David Stein]

Hey Jeremy - Good point. I have kind of given up already though and put the smart sams back on. I am pretty sure it was seated properly though, just because i kept having to reseat it due to the area above the valve not seating right and it taking a few tries of inflating and deflating to get it right, pretty sure I inspected the rest of the tire along the witness line as well.

Ultimately I think that a wider rim would help. I was eyeing some 29.5" Rhyno Light rims that Marc suggested. In the meantime I'll stick with the Smart Sams and look at wider rims in a few months and report back. The other alternative it to just keep the Smart Sam knobby tires on there full time for trail (or mostly trail riding), and trade up my Cheviot for a more road-y Sam Hillborne (hence my other post about a trade) for rides that entail mostly road and some trail riding and use my 650b Fatty Rumpkins.

I'm sure this is all user error, or personal preference, the tires seem to be successful for a bunch of people.

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