New to Me Rivendell Road (Standard)

[WETH]

The FedEx driver delivered my new-to-me Rivendell Road frame and fork on Saturday. There is nothing quite like the anticipation of a "new" bike. I had wanted something a bit different from my Atlantis and Surly LHT and decided this was it. This will be my winter project, and I hope to have it on the road come spring. Photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/86975051@N08/sets/72157646658697853/
So I have a question for the collective wisdom of this group. I have read Cyclofiend's page on the Rivendell Road Standard. How do I tell whether mine is a Road, Road Standard, or some other custom? I am at least the third owner. If I understand Waterford serial numbers, mine the 42nd frame made in July of 1996 (G96042). It doesn't matter to my riding enjoyment what model it is, but I am curious and take pride, like all of you, in my Rivendells. So, how to learn more about the frame?
Also, does anyone have photos of their Rivendell Road (Standard) bike to share? Looking for ideas and inspiration.
Thanks,
Erl

[Kieran J]

What's going on in that first picture there? Did the frame bring a ghostie with it? So spooky.

:-P

Oh, and the frame looks very nice!

KJ

[Deacon Patrick]

Beautiful bike! Hard to imagine two people choosing to let that go, but all the better for you!

With abandon,

Patrick

[Tony DeFilippo]

Wow! Looks great. I and help at all on your question unfortunately but I am curious what you are thinking with respect to the build?

I can't wait to check out that head badge in person!

[Pondero]

Pure class, and so much potential there. I'm looking forward to seeing the build. Enjoy!

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

[Don Compton]

That is a beautiful frameset. Hope you enjoy many miles on that bike.
Don

[WETH]

Thanks to all for the comments. I am looking forward to building-up and riding this bike.
Tony, the build is still evolving. The challenge and fun for me will be building-up a road bike designed for skinny tires; a slightly different endeavor than what I did with my Atlantis. At the moment, it will have noodle drop bars with a Brooks b17 saddle. I am still debating between a compact double vs a triple crankset, with a 9speed cassette and bar end shifters. The previous owner said the max tire size is 700 x 28 and with fenders 700 x 25. My goal will be 700 x 26 Grand Bois tires under a set of fenders. Beyond this I have not settled on part specifics. I am continuing to find and view photos of other Riv Road Standards.
I am always open to suggestions and "don't do what I did" comments. :)
Thanks,
Erl

[Tony DeFilippo]

That sounds cool Erl!  Funny to think of a Riv with clearances that small, as the narrow tires go in sure those GB tires are excellent.

Not as classic an accessory but have you thought of the retro shift/gevenalle/ird shifters on aero levers?  That's a mod I'm thinking about for the upcoming Bombadil...  :)

[Tim Gavin]

I love that colorway; some of the loveliest Rivs have a dark head tube.

My Road Standard is a '97 Waterford build, and the lugs look identical to yours.  Mine has the exact same clearances: 700 x 28c with about 1 mm to spare under the brake bridge. 



I converted my Road Standard to 650 x 38b and am much happier with the ride and handling on GB Lierres.  I have to be careful about the resultant extra-low BB, but the bike feels more Rivish to me on the wider tires.  But then I'm 220#, so I appreciate bigger tires on just about any bike.  :)

ATMO, the Road Standard 753 tubeset feels pretty stiff for a skinny tire bike.  Like a stout enough to tour on (which I do), but it can't fit a 700c touring tire.  I prefer a more compliant frame if I'm limited to high pressure tires. 

The GB Cerf is a great tire for a skinny-only bike; I use them on my gofast (Italian steel Giordana). The Giordana frame is pretty flexy; its tubing is some French heat-treated Excelle NiChrom in a crazy-thin profile.  Under my bulk, that flex gives it a great ride.  It planes on skinny tires, where the Riv gets closest to that feel with the added plush of the Lierres.  That said, the Riv frame will still be strong long after I've broken that Giordana frame, probably.

The first generation Road Standard and All-Rounder have those gorgeous Nervex-like lugs, and are probably the least-expensive frames you'll find with "Rivendell" on the down tube.

You made a great find on a beautiful bike!

[blakcloud]

Great looking bike, congratulations. If it were my bike I would go with the biggest tires that would fit without fenders. I am more into comfy tires than I am about getting wet or dirty.

Then I read Tim Gavin's Road being converted to 650 and liked that idea even better.

Have fun with it.

[Fullylugged]

Erl

With a 96 production date, yours is a road standard. About this time,iirc, they were switching to Italian dropouts. Technociclo or something like that. My road is running 650b and feels great. A rider from out of town came in on Sunday to test ride my road and my Saluki for comparison. The verdict is that both were nice, but the road has a livelier feel and is more desirable.

Enjoy the build process and then enjoy the ride!

Bruce

[Fullylugged]

Tim

What color red is your bike? Looks perfect for the next repainted I need to get started on.

Bruce

[Tim Gavin]

Bruce-

I'm not sure exactly what color it is.  It's in between garnet metallic and intense red on Waterford's current color swatch.  It has a light metallic sparkle in it, but it's lighter than their current garnet.  I met a gentleman on a recent 22 series Waterford in garnet (and a lovely Berthoud handlebar bag) on TOMRV, and we compared colors--his is about 2 shades darker.

And the dropouts are Campy 1010 horizontals.  Makes for tricky wheel removal with fenders, but a spring thing helps.

Tim

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[WETH]

Tim,

Thanks for the great idea of converting to 650.  I had pondered it, but I had figured the bb would be too low.  Glad to know it works, and I think I will go with 650 wheels as well.  A few questions if you don't mind: 

Do you use a 170 crank length?

Which brakes do you use with the 650 wheelset?

Do the 650 x 38b max out clearance under fenders?

Your bike is beautiful!  

Thanks again,

Erl

[WETH]

Bruce,

Thanks for the help identifying the frame.

On your road, what brakes are you using and what tire 650b tire size do you like?

Thanks again,

Erl

[Jim Bronson]

Seems very similar to my custom, probably of the same era.  I don't know, because I got mine used.  I had short reach brakes and infnitesimal clearance with 700x30 Grand Bois Cypres.  I'm now running 650Bx38 also with R559 brakes and cream Longboards and it works out well enough on clearance.  Also changed from 180 to 170 cranks and the clearance is acceptable although I have had a couple of light pedal strikes if I'm not careful about it.

Plus I found the 170s are much easier on my knees even though I felt more efficient on the 180s.

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Tim Gavin]

Erl-

I used Tektro R559 brakes, but recently received a set of Paul Racers in a trade and now use them.  They're both good brakes.  The Pauls feel stronger; maybe they're less flexy.

My Riv had a 170 Campy Racing Triple crank, and that's what I still use.  I tried and liked a 170 Stronglight 105, which was gorgeous but really tricky to shift well.  The Stronglight only worked with friction and a vintage double derailleur; any triple I tried had a sculpted outer cage that would hit the very low-Q crank.  I switched to Ergo shifters, so I put the Campy triple back on and got it some new rings.

650 x 38 b is the max you can fit between the forks and chainstays, horizontally.  It has decent fender room above the 38 tire.  SKS P45's mount easily, and fit well with pretty good clearance.  I picked up a stick and it folded up my rear P45, so now I'm running the Velo Orange "hammered" 650 x 45 mm fenders.  They are harder to mount and don't have as much clearance, but they sure are purty.  If you get the SKS fenders, put a safety release clip on the back too!  I'm installing PDW FMF safety tabs on my VO fenders this weekend for the safety release.

However, the BB gets real low after conversion.  The switch from 622 x 28 to 584 x 38 results in another 9 mm of frame drop.  That's why the wise elves in Walnut Creek don't recommend the Road Standard as a good candidate for 650b conversion.  But, as some of us have demonstrated, it works fine but you must be careful not to pedal when leaned over.  I've done singletrack on my 650b Road, but on a trail with very few log-overs or other "straddle" obstacles.

If you already are building it up 700c, then I'd recommend trying the Cerfs.  They ride really great for such a skinny tire.  Then keep an eye out for some used 650b wheels and R559 brakes on the list.  Without fenders, one could change between 650b and 700c with a wheel and brake caliper swap (assuming compatible gearing on both wheels).  Brake cable quick releases would make it a quick process.

--

[WETH]

Tim and Jim,

Thank you both for that great information on brakes, tires, fenders and wheels!  That is exactly the feedback I was hoping for.  I haven't started buying parts or building it up; it is a blank canvas at this point.  Do either of you have a photo of your bike from the side showing how the 650b wheels look on the bike?  

Time for me to do a bit more reading on 650b wheelsets and tires.

Thanks again,

Erl

[Tim Gavin]

Not the most recent picture, but here ya go.  

This was from last fall.  I've since:

Changed bars to Nitto B135 Randonneur

Changed stem to 80 cm Tallux

Changed shifters/brake levers to Campy 8sp Ergo

Changed rear derailer back to original Campy Racing T

Built wheels with original Phil hubs and Synergy Rims (OC rear)

Changed brakes to Paul Racers

Changed fenders to VO "hammered" 650 x 45 mm (the pictured rear SKS ate a stick and folded under the brake bridge)

Changed bottle cages to King Iris

Removed front rack, added rear Nitto R20 (Mt-Campee)

Removed Carradice, added panniers

I have a more recent photo on my camera at home (from Jim Thill's MN Country Bike Ramble); I'll post it when I download it.

I started my 650b conversion with a cheapo Weinmann wheelset I got from eBay.  There is a similar wheelset on offer for $140 right now.  A cheap way to try out 650b?  Once I confirmed that I liked 650b, I built up some Synergy rims on to the original Phil hubs (with new bearings).  I went with the OC rear rim because it made for a nearly dishless wheel.

[Bruce Herbitter]

Erl

I'm using text to 559s (the Riv silver brand is a polished version ) with cool stop salmon pads. I've had 38mm Pari Motos on it, but like the 36mm grand Bois Ourson instead (there is a new tire that replaces Ourson in their line up). 170 campy crankset. Mks touring lite pedals 

Bruce

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[WETH]

Tim, thanks for the photo. The wheels/tires look nice on the bike. It helps as I wanted to get a sense proportionally how the smaller wheels and larger tires would look on the frame.
Bruce, I appreciate your information too about brakes, tires and the conversion to 650b. I am pleased that three of you have done the conversion and like the results.
All the best,
Erl

[Tim Gavin]

Here's a newer shot, as promised. 

Wrong side, sorry.  We had just climbed up a steep, long grade across from St. Paul, so catching my breath came before aesthetics.

The sidewalls of the Lierres are more dingy a year later.  I commute a 1-2 days a week on this bike (1-2 days on other bikes), so the tires are getting some miles on them.  They're a great tire but not great for commuting; I get about 1 flat a month from glass shards.  The glass shards seem to get caught in the zig-zag tread of the Lierre; I think they wouldn't get caught as easily in the finer, file tread of the Loup Loup Pass.

The VO 650 x 45 mm fenders fit a little more closely than SKS P45's, and they have less clearance due to nuts inside the fender.  But they look nice, aren't noisy, and seem to hold their position well (maybe because they're metal vs. chromo-plastic).  You'd have more clearance with VO Zeppelin 650 x 52 mm fenders, and they should fit--but maybe with a little crimping at the fork crown.  Or just go P45's, they're pretty easy.

Enjoy the Road Standard, and share more pics when you have it built.  I absolutely love the lugs, head badge, and the ride.  And the fact that it says "Rivendell" on the down tube makes it easier to explain to people.

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[Ron Mc]

would have never though steel-blue tape on rust-brown paint - it looks great !!!

[WETH]

That is a gorgeous bike!  I do like the look with the 650b and fenders.  Thanks so much for sharing the photo.

I had read somewhere else about the tread pattern in the Lierre trapping bits of road flotsam and jetsam; I am sorry to learn they pick up glass on your commute.  I have ridden Compass 26 x 1.75 tires on my Atlantis for about 6 months, like how they handle, and have yet to have a flat.  

Thanks again for the helpful info and photos.

Erl

[Eric Platt]

Nice bike. Not sure I've seen it in person. Is the photo from the park at the end of the high bridge?

As to flats due to glass, I get them riding around St. Paul, too. Before switching back to Little Big Ben's back on the Hillborne,  had 3 flats due to glass on the Barlow Pass tires in three weeks.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[Tim Gavin]

Eric-

I'm not sure exactly where the photo was taken; we were visiting St. Paul for the Ramble last month.  It's on the west bluff.

I live and commute in Cedar Rapids, IA.  

You had flat problems with the Barlow Pass as well as the Lierres?  I have some Mitsuboshi Trimlines to try out once the Lierres are done, and I figured I'd try the Barlow Pass after that.

My other main commuter is a vintage Schwinn KOM on micro-knobby tires.  I get no flats on those tires, so who knows.

[Eric Platt]

Tim,
No, just the Barlow Pass. Don't have a 650B bike.  

Makes more sense. I was on a Surly Ogre at the river bottoms ride. Didn't make the Friday ride.

Eric Platt
St.  Paul, MN

[Eric Platt]

Forgot to finish my thought. The Twin Cities seems to have more glass on the roads than most places.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[hsmitham]

Erl,

Though late to the party, wanted to express how gorgeous your new to you road custom is. The photographs are superb. I personally know how enjoyable a Winter project is, looking forward to the build over the months I know it'll be a sweet ride.

Best,

-Hugh

[WETH]

While the winter project stretched a bit into spring, the Riv Road 650b conversion and new build is finally, almost complete.
Pictures here: https://flickr.com/photos/86975051@N08/sets/72157646658697853
Component specs:
Tektro R559 brakes
TRP brake levers
Kmc chain
Altus rear derailleur
11-32 shimano cassette
Shimano CSX-70 front derailleur
Shimano 8sp shift levers
Bb-un55 107mm
Crankset sugino wide low double
Nitto noodle 46cm
Nitto Technomic 280mm with 70mm reach
Wheelset: 650B, 130mm rear, 100mm front, polished Placenti PL 23 double walled rims, 36 DT-12.0 OSL SS silver eyeleted spokes, silver Shimano FH-2200 silver hubs
Pananracer col de la vie 650b tires
VO grand cru seat post
Brooks b17 saddle blue
Sks fenders
Bar wrap Cinelli cork-blue

A big thank you to Tom Allingham on a great transaction that brought me the saddle, bars and pedals. I also owe gratitude to Tony for the "loan" of the tires. Tony I think I am going to try the Hutchinson tires at Compass (http://www.compasscycle.com/tires_hutch_650_32.html), so hopefully I will return the panaracers in June.

The bike rides and handles so nicely. It has become the bike I want to ride before others, when I am not commuting.
Thanks to all who shared photos and information earlier in this thread (last year). I would not have undertaken this if not for the wealth of information so freely shared here.
Many thanks,
Erl

[Patrick Moore]

Very nice bike, but surely you are joking with that stem? It looks as if you are far above the minimum insert line.

If you are serious, and it works, then Kudos and enjoy it!

Patrick "il faut de tout pour faire un monde!" Moore, who just turned a brief PO run into a very nice 20 mile rt on his '03 Curt in breezy, springtime ABQ, NM.

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[Eric Norris]

I think you’ve taken “Raise the ‘bars” to an unprecedented level.  

Or maybe not: https://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/c-34.jpeg?w=700 

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[islaysteve]

Beautiful bike, Erl! I really like the blue bar tape with your paint scheme, that blue head tube is so nice with the silver. Two 650b Rivs in the neighborhood now! I will be riding again soon, was doing some tinkering on the bike today, can't wait to see your new one in person.
Steve

[WETH]

Patrick, I like my bars high. It helps me enjoy the ride. The stem is at the maximum but still allowable height. If your interested: http://americancyclery.com/products/nitto-technomics-280mm-1-quill-stem-26-0-clamp
Eric, had I not found the stem linked to above, it was the method in the photo you linked to or a dirt drop.
Steve, thanks and when you are recovered, I look forward to some riding.

[Fullylugged]

I'm with you on this Eric. I really really like the color scheme. Should be a nice ride!

[Tony DeFilippo]

What a stunner, love that color scheme and the build looks great!  You're photography on that set is particularly nice.

If you want to try out 650x32mm tires I've got some really worn Nifty Swifties you are welcome to try out.

[carne...@bellsouth.net]

picture as requested:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/carner/17283504245/in/photostream/lightbox/

[Bruce Herbitter]

I like it! A number of us have converted them to 650B it seems. Makes for a great riding bike.

Sent from my iPad

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[Joe Bernard]

Man, I don't know about that stem. You may be at the allowable height mark, but I think you're pushing your luck with the bending forces this will allow you to transmit through the part of the stem outside the frame. I really think you should consider dropping it at least an inch.

[WETH]

Dear Joe,

Thanks for your thoughts and concern.  For comparison purposes, when I was in the initial build stages I had the noodles in a Nitto Dirt Drop stem( 8cm); this current stem gets the bars to the same height and 1cm closer than with the dirt drop extended to maximum/minimum insertion line.  I will keep a close eye on the current stem and be ready to switch back to the dirt drop if I sense any issues.

With appreciation,

Erl

[islaysteve]

Just a thought, we've discussed here (re racks) how conservative Nitto is regarding weight, etc. it would seem likely that they wouldn't sell a tall stem if there was a safety concern.
Steve

[David Banzer]

Hi Erl,
I believe the Dirt Drop stem and the Technomic stem you have are made in different processes. The Dirt Drop is cold forged, while the Technomic Standard is not. This makes the Dirt Drop stiffer. Additionally, having less quill showing will have less flex.
Either way, it's your bike and you can set it up however you'd like! Looks great and if you're comfy on it, that's what matters.
David
Chicago

[WETH]

Dave,

Thanks. You are correct on the different processes from what I have read.  I will not be using the bike, as currently set up, for any off road riding.  However, I always try to keep the limitations of my equipment in mind and will take into account the limitations of this long stem as I ride.

With appreciation,

Erl

[Ryan Fleming]

That's a really nice bike...a dead giveaway to the relative age would be the Reynolds transfers but maybe the prior owner(s) removed them. I like that silver and blue colour scheme though, and it looks like it was very well looked-after. Enjoy!