Handling effects of a front rack/basket/bag....

[Chris Lampe 2]

How much effect does having a small front rack with either a basket or a bag on it have on a bikes steering?  

My primary concern is carrying capacity.  I want to be able to carry the usual wallet, cell phone, car keys, spare tube, tire levers and maybe some allen wrenches but I also want to move to higher performance tires and am considering carrying a spare tire since I'm a 400 lb rider and a damaged tire is probably more likely for me than others.  I've got a great little seat bag that will hold everything but the tire. 

A secondary concern is that my Devil is a perfectly suitable bike in every aspect except for the front-end handling.  I've been riding 700c bikes with MTB geometry since 1995 and I just can't get used to the Devil's 60mm of trail....even with 40mm tires.  Would the extra weight on the front make it handle more like a higher trail bike or would it just increase the wheel flop?  

[Deacon Patrick]

Obvious, but the more weight, the greater the effect on handling. On my Hunqapillar, I use a small trucksack when bikepacking for my food. That handles great.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Chris,

If you can rig it up, try the seat bag on the handlebar to test it out. 

My experience is that some bikes do great with front weight, some don't. I have a CC, Hunqapillar, and AHH. The CC doesn't handle well with front weight. The Hunqapillar is great with Wald+HUB+HAR. I have an acorn hbar bag on the AHH, but it's not loaded up.

Good luck!

shoji

[Scott Henry]

I have a Devil, its the 58cm Speedy, but with the same geometry.   I run it with either 700x35 or 700x40 tires depending on fenders or free.    I generally run it with a Louis Garneau Handlebar bag

http://www.louisgarneau.com/us-en/product/827752/1493799/RoadMTB_Cycling_Bags/BOX_H-7.5_CYCLING_BAG

And I am maybe not super sensitive, but can barely notice the with/without differences during normal riding.   I've never weighed it, but its 10"x8"x6" and generally full of powerbars, jacket, camera and tools.   It is extremely noticeable when riding slow however.   This bike basically serves as my beater/cyclocross/commuter.

Try it with front weight and you might end up liking it.

Scott

 

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[Kieran J]

I ride a Cross Check as my commuter beater bike with a porteur rack/big Wald basket combo on the front, usually carrying a big shoulder bag with my work schtuff. 

I can definitely feel the difference in steering characteristics. Unloaded, the steering is quick and precise. The bike handles sort of OK with a moderate front load and fairly terribly with a heavy one. It is most pronounced approaching a red light at low speed, as it will wander and dive towards the curb.

However, I have pretty much gotten used to it and am putting up with it until I replace it with something better, which is soon hopefully. I like the front load config enough that I'm tolerating the bad handling. Depending on your expectations, I think you'll adjust to anything (within reason).

KJ

[Tim Gavin]

In my experience adding weight to the handlebars will never improve handling, but then I've never ridden a "low" trail bike.  

Conversely, I've encountered better front handling when the load is carried in low-riders, like on a Campee Classic rack, Tubus Tara, or Rivendell Hub Area Racks.  A load on the bottom of the fork makes the steering more stable.  Unfortunately, this kind of setup requires some sort of front rack, and they can be tricky to fit up correctly.

[Tim McNamara]

> On Feb 6, 2015, at 8:11 AM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> How much effect does having a small front rack with either a basket or a bag on it have on a bikes steering?

Depending on the geometry of the bike, a lot to almost none. While we talk a lot about trail in this context, trail is not the only determining factor of how the bike will handle a front load. While it's generally accepted that a low trail bike (say 30 mm) will accommodate a front load better, a bike with a 70 degree head tube will deal with the load differently than a bike with a 75 degree head, even if trail is the same.

[Chris Lampe 2]

Do you have a photo of your bike with that bag on it?  I'm new to all this cargo stuff and it's not obvious to me where and how it attaches.  

To all, would a bag hanging from the handlebar feel any different than a bag or basket sitting on a rack attached to the front fender?    I will try some experiments this weekend and see how I can simulate the load I plan to carry and see how it feels.  I've got a couple of cheap Trek rear racks that came off used bikes I bought but I think I would prefer a front load.  

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

I have a VO Randonneur (production, not custom) and have carried as much a 10# in a front bag.  Other than the bike feeling heavier, I have not noticed very much of a difference in handling.

On Friday, February 6, 2015 at 9:11:14 AM UTC-5, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:

[Scott Henry]

Chris,

I don't have a good shot of the Speedy Devil all bagged up, but I am happy to take one tonight or in the morning.

Its a quick release mount so I'll try to get shots from a few angles for you.

Scott

[Tim Gavin]

To all, would a bag hanging from the handlebar feel any different than a bag or basket sitting on a rack attached to the front fender?    I will try some experiments this weekend and see how I can simulate the load I plan to carry and see how it feels.  I've got a couple of cheap Trek rear racks that came off used bikes I bought but I think I would prefer a front load.  

In my experience, the lower the better.  In order of worst to best:

A bag mounted to the handlebar (like Scott's example) is the highest and should increase front wheel flop. 

A bag mounted on a rack above the wheel (like a small trunksack, or most Randonneur-style boxy bags) will be high and will still affect handling, but not as severely as the same load on the handlebars.

Panniers on the side of the wheel, but hanging from the top of the rack (imagine side panniers on a Nitto Big Front rack, for example) should feel more neutral.  

A bag at the bottom of the fork actually stabilizes handling.  

My opinion/experience, YMMV.  But I don't think a bag mounted only to the handlebars would improve the handling of your bike.

[David Banzer]

The load that you describe (wallet, phone, keys, tools, tube, tire) would be a light load IMO and would have little effect on the handling even in a bag lashed to handlebars/stem.
Oddly, on my Redwood, the handling felt much better when carrying a load with a Riv Brand-V handlebar bag than a front rack/rando bag with a similar sized load (around 5 lbs.)
While geometry does play a factor, there is some rider sensitivity to handling it seems.
If you can, try and make a makeshift tool roll out of a piece of fabric, canvas, tarp, towel, &c. Put in everything you intend to carry and lash it to your handlebars with toestraps. Then lash it to saddle/seatpost and see what you prefer.
Easy, cheap experiment.

David
Chicago

[Matthew J]

In my experience adding weight to the handlebars will never improve handling, but then I've never ridden a "low" trail bike.  

Low trail handles front weight well, but not necessarily on the handle bars.  Porteur style loads above the wheel yes.  Handlebars not really.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Friday, February 6, 2015 at 10:33:13 AM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote:

Panniers on the side of the wheel, but hanging from the top of the rack (imagine side panniers on a Nitto Big Front rack, for example) should feel more neutral.  

I'll like to add that panniers hung on a front rack that is not balanced will adversely affect handling to a very large degree, much more so than unbalanced panniers hung on a rear rack, and even to a degree that the bike may be unrideable*.

Example: I have a low-trail Boulder All Road with a solid front rack, and it is a nice-handling bike, regardless of whether there is a rando bag up front. However, one time, I strapped a single-sided pannier up front (contains laptop) and the bike pulled way to one side, so much so that it was virtually unrideable; I turned back home after 1/2 block. I was surprised because I always ride my rear-racked commuter lopsided without any issue whatsoever. I tried balancing the pannier by adding another pannier but further experiments revealed that one needs to balance front panniers to within a T-shirt or two in order to not feel like the bike's pulling to one side. Yes, it is possible to ride lopsided front panniers but the constant need to counter the sideward pull will leave a knot in one's shoulders. Don't ask how I know.

* rideability is obviously subjective.

[Scott Henry]

Just for reference, I finally got around to taking some pictures of the Louis Garneau bag on my Handsome over the weekend.   Already I can tell that it wont be popular and the bag rides REALLY high.   You don't see it when you are riding it, but when I stepped back 10 feet to photograph it, I really noticed it too.   

Not enough to change it because I do like it and its easy to work with and is more than big enough for me.   I have a much lower decaleur mounted bag on another bike and don't really notice much difference in handling.    

The last picture of the mounting hardware might be of more interest to those that like STI levers and front bags.  I used two brake noodles to route the cable down and out of the way.   Its not and issue with ergopower, Sram or the new style STI levers.  But for the older levers this works great.

Scott

Side

https://www.flickr.com/photos/skenry/15860267914/in/photostream/

Front

https://www.flickr.com/photos/skenry/16456793346/in/photostream/

Seated

https://www.flickr.com/photos/skenry/16296890887/in/photostream/

Mounting hardware

https://www.flickr.com/photos/skenry/15862667023/in/photostream/

[Chris Lampe 2]

Thanks for the pics!  I just now realized they were there.  

I just did a little experiment where I zip-tied a 2.5 lb weight plate to my stem and rode around the block.  This made the front-end much more stable and much more to my liking.  More like the Treks I rode for so long.  I've been thinking about putting an inexpensive rack and basket on the front-end and using that instead of my small saddle bag.  

Any recommendations for a decent but inexpensive rack, preferably in black, that sets up well? 

[Scott Henry]

Well, for inexpensive I usually recommend these :
http://www.amazon.com/SUNLITE-Gold-Tec-Front-Rack/dp/B002MKHR6G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431695136&sr=8-1&keywords=front+rack

I have a few of them. Not high quality, but easy to bend and shape
to fit your specific needs.
Sometimes Nashbar even has them cheaper....
Scott

[Montclair BobbyB]

+1 on the Sunlite rack... CHEAP, compact and the perfect solution for light cargo.  Definitely lower-end, not in a class with Nitto, VO etc, but fine for lighter loads. I have installed lots of them and swear by them.  There's another inexpensive canti-mount decaleur rack that I bought on eBay.  I haven't mounted it yet, but I have a VO Campagne bag that I plan to stiffen with corroplast, then mount the top to this rack, probably with bolts and wingnuts.  I expect it will do the job nicely, and should carry slightly more weight than the Sunlite.  Lots of ways to get creative.  Good luck!!