New Winter Project: Another 650B conversion, thanks in part to you

[Bill Lindsay]

So I sold a few bikes to pay for a mountain bike.  You guys snapped up two of my three 650B bikes, and wanted the frames, but not the wheels.  

So I found myself with a surplus of 650B tires, and tried to sell off some, but you hardly bought any of them.  

So, it was irresistible, unavoidable that I buy a cheap vintage road bike to do a 650B conversion on.  Right?  Right!?

I worked at a Schwinn Shop through the mid 1980s, so I have a long standing softspot for mid-1980s Schwinn road bikes.  A standard ebay outing includes searches for Paramount, Peloton, Super Sport, Prologue, Circuit, Premis.  They were all made either in the US or Japan.  Many had Columbus or Prestige tubing.  They had great fork crowns for 650B, generally.  The only downer was that virtually all of them did not have fender eyelets.  A recent find had me looking through an archived scan of the 1985 Schwinn Catalog.  Flipping the virtual pages I was reminded of a model I had been overlooking: the Schwinn Tempo.  The 1985 Tempo was the number 4 model road bike (Paramount > Peloton > Super Sport > Tempo).  The Super Sport and Tempo both have a Columbus "Tenax" label, but the not-very-well-kept-secret was that Schwinn bought up a whole mess of cosmetic blem Columbus SL and SP at a discount and agreed to label it Tenax.  Thanks to the sneaky light tubing, the stock bikes were respectably light.  List weight of the Tempo was 22 lbs.  An added plus is that the Tempo was the only "Competition" road bike that year with eyelets for fenders.  

So, having added the Tempo to my standard search, I found one almost instantly on ebay.  It looks like a completely stock attic-find.  I got it at a half-way decent price ($249) and a horrible shipping cost ($95), but now I've got my Winter Project, again, thanks to you.  I'm going to do a 650B conversion on this nice 1985 Schwinn Tempo.

Anybody want to trade me or sell me a Nitto stem with a 25.4 clamp diameter and a 10cm or 11cm extension?

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Dave]

Sorry the list made you bill. I think I've got a stem in those extensions and live in n. Berkeley. Family's in town this week, but this weekend would work.

[Bill Lindsay]

Haha.  Thanks Dave. 

The auction just ended, so I'm in no particular rush.  Let me know if you find a stem offlist and I'll figure out how to take it off your hands. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Montclair BobbyB]

You crack me up, Bill !!! Those poor orphaned 650B wheels...  that looks like a gem of a frameset.  This past year I converted my 1980 Raleigh Competition from 27 to 650B (using long reach Diacompe center pulls).  Good luck!!

But oh... those poor orphaned 700c wheels...  (ah... the circle of life)... 

BB

[David Banzer]

The 1984 Tempo I used to have had Shimano B-type (I think that's what they're called) dt shifter braze-ons which aren't compatible with standard shifters. Not sure if the 1985 model had those or not. There's workarounds for sure. My '84 Voyageur with these stops became a single speed - easy solution.
Also, those decals I believe were applied over the clearcoat so they can be peeled right off if you're inclined.
David
Chicago

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, David, good call.  It's called A-type, but yes it's a special DT braze-on.  I have several ideas about that.  At first, I plan on just using the shiftlevers that are already there.  I had a similar situation with my last vintage 650B conversion, a 1985 Miyata 912 which had the braze on for the shifters on top of the downtube.  The shifters looked kind of like this:

I forget what that type of shifter was called.  A-type braze-ons give more choices than that.   

[David Banzer]

Now I'm missing the Tempo I had a few years back. I had it set up as a 1x8 - could've used a taller stem.
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz136/dabanzer/0dc2dd1d.jpg
David
Chicago

[Mark Reimer]

Nice!! I'm working on a similar project this winter. I've got a Gios Torino Super Record frame from 1982. Real similar to the ones Roger won Paris Roubiax on so many times. I'm positive I can fit at least 32mm 650b tires, probably 38, and fingers crossed for 42. Gotta test fit soon. I'll be adding fender eyelets and other goodies later. Keep this posted with photos, I'm curious to follow along! 

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 3:06:44 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

So David, your 1984 was a 27" wheel stock, and you converted it to a 700xChubby with medium reach sidepulls?   That's pretty sweet.  You could've had cantilever posts and maybe "normal" DT shift bosses brazed on and then you could have really caused some trouble!  

Mine has 700c wheels stock.  The 1985 catalog brags that you can upgrade to sew-ups when you get serious!  

Mark, I promise to photodocument the process.  The normal tight spot is between the chainstays, but that's squishable.  I'm planning on 38s.  I have a TON of 35-38mm 650B tires.  The first tires on my build might be my hoarded pair of the infamously unloved Grand Bois Ourson.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[John Hawrylak]

Columbus Tenax was Cromor.  Ref Nova Cycles, a long time Columbus distributor

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/COLUMBUS-2010-CHROMOR-ROAD-TUBESET.html

Here is their write up

This tubeset, Chromor/Thron has a long history that includes  Touring frames for Schwinn in the 80's and 90's with Prelude and Tempo models. Schwinn manufactured approximately 25,000 of these frames during this time using the name Tenax. We sold Chromor and later Thron as Columbus entry level pro tubes just below SL/SP.

I have an 88 Panasonic Schwinn Voyageur with Tenax, and I was curious as to the wall thickness.

Note, in 2010, they showed a TT/DT wall of 0.9/0.6/0.9.  I recently e-mailed Nova and asked if the 2010 specs were the same as the 80's.  I was interested since the 80's specs showed 1.0/0.7/1.0.  Their reply was to the point (they probably get these questions a lot):

Schwinn used both wall thicknesses and I do not know specifics of model to model for spec.

The 88 catalog lists the Voyageur at 24 lbs.  Also, catalog shows the SL Circuit 23" frames used SP down tubes, probably for extra rigidity.

My Voyageur probably has the 10/7/10 wall due to touring design and since the 84 Voyageur SP used the actual SP tubing (hence the 'SP' in the name) which was 10/7/10.  The 3 Road models probably had 9/6/9 per the lower overall weight.   

Cromor is a cold drawn, welded tube.  SL/SP were seamless.  Cromor still has respectable yield strength at 110 kpsi, higher actually than the Rivendell SILVER tubes on the Sam at 70 kpsi yield.

I am currently trying to get a 80's Tenax catalog spec.  Would you want the file also???

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Bill Lindsay]

Thanks John for the offer.  Since the history on the actual tubing of my Tempo is cloudy at best, I confess I won't be dwelling on the catalog spec of the tubing that my frame might be built out of.  I'm going to concentrate on executing a nice build and then try to have a good time riding it.  

If it isn't any trouble, I wouldn't mind seeing the Tenax catalog spec, but it's not critical.  Thanks again

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[El Sapo]

I still have a soft spot for the Schwinn Varsity that my dad bought me. It was orange, probably 1965 or 1966. Rode it really hard and 4-5 years later I broke the frame. The old man took me to the Schwinn shop to get it fixed and they gave me a brand new bike. Schwinn fan for life.   

[Lungimsam]

So are modern Schwinns of the same quality as the 60's-80's Schwinns?

[El Sapo]

If you appreciate lugged or steel bikes, 1988 -89 is probably the end of the era for Schwinn and the other industry leaders.

[KC]

Here's a listing I spotted on Craigslist for a Prologue https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/bik/5326703220.html    

I asked seller the size - "not sure, but he is 5' 7"

[Palmer]

That Prologue looks like a 19" frame. My wife has a Traveller that looks the same dimension wise. She is 5' 3" with long legs and I needed a technomic to get the bars high enough.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, that's a tiny one.  It's a fantastic price for a really nice small road frame.  

[Bill Lindsay]

New bike day!  My 1985 Schwinn Tempo arrived today.  Riv-content:  

1.  The build-plan includes the following parts bought from Rivendell Bicycle Works:  Tektro Big-mouth brakes, Newbaums tape, Noodle handlebars

2.  Obligatory clearance photos + an appreciative photo of the seat lug, showing a tasteful seatstay wraparound.  

On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 4:44:36 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:

[John Hawrylak]

what does the Columbus sticker on the fork say???  My 88 Voyageur (Tenax) does not have a Columbus fork, but a Tange.  maybe due to the cantilevers maybe.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Bill Lindsay]

Here are the tubing stickers on the fork and the seat tube:

[David Person]

For a second I thought the locker handle in the profile picture was some kind of new-fangled suicide brake lever, like they used to put on diacompe brake levers in the '70s and '80s.

David P.

[john.h...@verizon.net]

Bill

 

Attached is the 1980's Columbus data sheet for Cromor, which is Tenax.  I obtained it from Stan Cooper in CA from a post on Bike Forums about Tenax.  Stan contacted Nova Cycles and Columbus .  Here is the reply from Columbus

 

The Tenax was the tube-set made during the middle '80s, those were actually the 3 main tubes, made like the Cromor tubes in seamed 25 CrMo 4, and double butted.

 

Good result in term of stiffness but was not one of the light tubeset line.

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Andrea

COLUMBUS

 

Stan concluded:

* the idea Tenax was blemished SL/SP is incorrect, contrary to a Bicycling magazine article at the time stating "production run of SL/SP".  However, Schwinn did probably et a good price and made over 25,000 frames with it, so a little "story" probably was good

* it is Cromor, but only the 3 main tubes

* the seat tube is straight gauge, since it uses a 26.6mm seatpost, not 27.2mm,   28.6 - 2*0.9 = 26.8mm inner dia for a straight gauge 1-1/8" 0.9mm wall tube.  The extra 0.2mm gap allows a 26.6mm seatpost to fit.

 

It makes for interesting history.  It is not the thinnest, even for the time, as Columbus admits.  I was more interested in trying to understand what my 88 Voyageur actually had, to allow for comparison to current tubing.  I harbor a desire for a new frame, one to do regular rides and credit card touring and be able to minimally "plane" without shimmy.  So understanding what I have in the 88 was important.

 

But as you said, nothing to worry about and you plan on enjoying the ride.  The bike looks in great shape. 

 

I would be interested in how your Tempo rides in comparison with your Rivendells, and how does it "plane".  You ride a much larger frame than I do (21").  The Tenax (Cromor) main tubes in Std 10-7-10 tubing is slightly more flexible than OS 8-5-8 (which I think RBW uses for most frames) from a simple calculation of how much the tube flexes under a weight hung from the center.  So the Tempo may have more "planning" than the RBW's.

 

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/2WHBMoHGmTA/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Bill Lindsay]

Maybe I'm getting too good at 650B conversions, or maybe I have too many parts on-hand to make things go so smoothly.  Whatever the reason, I've got my 1985 Schwinn Tempo all ready to ride in its new 650B configuration.  I pulled the stock wheelset and replaced it with a Pacenti PL23 wheelset.  White Industries front hub and vintage Suntour Cyclone rear hub.  Shimano 600 6-speed freewheel 13-25, and very used Soma New Express 650x37B tires.  Tektro bigmouth brakes.  Stock seatpost, NOS vetta saddle.  Cockpit replaced with Nitto Pearl 11 stem.  Noodle 44cm bars, and SRAM S500 levers.  Ritchey/Sugino 44/30 crankset.  Stock Shimano "Z" shifters and derailers.  It's already set up with Front and Rear Sheldon Nuts, so fender install should be super quick.  I picked this Tempo partially because it has fender eyelets. 

Have a look if you like:

Flickr Album LINK

[WETH]

That is looking good. I am glad it is coming together easily.
All the best,
Erl

[true]

Bill, I really like what your doing with your Tempo.

 

It's particularly interesting to me on several counts as the first nice bike I had

was a new 1985 Schwinn Tempo but in the black color. 

That of course was decades back and I no longer have it but it introduced me to how a nice bike can transform one's cycling.

 

From time to time I had thought of my old Tempo and missed it and occasionally looked for another one online.

 

http://bikecatalogs.org/SCHWINN/1985/LightWeight/Tempo.html

 

http://bikecatalogs.org/SCHWINN/1985/LightWeight/1985_Road_Bicycle_Specifications_%28Page_1%29.html

 

My first attempt at a 650b conversion came a few months back with a former 27" wheel bike,

a Nishiki Int'l , which I am thoroughly enjoying.

 

In fact, so much, that I now have a 2nd in the works. It's a mid 80's Schwinn, a 1987 Circuit. (matte black)

 

The wheels are a bargain 650b set but I did not scrimp on the tires which are the Compass Baby Shoe Pass 650b tires.

 

The Tektro 559 calipers are what I am using as well.

 

I had the Circuit running earlier with Albatross bars and liked the bike quite a bit except for the max 700 x 28 size tires.

A true 30mm might have squeezed in there but I decided on the 650b route as fattish tires have totally spoiled me

with their advantages for my style of riding.

 

I look forward to a ride report after you have finished. Thanks for sharing.

 

Safe pedaling,

 

Paul in Dallas

 

 

[Bill Lindsay]

The Circuit was/is one of my standard ebay searches.  That's a pearl of a bike, and the matte black is fierce!

[Patrick Moore]

Those wheels look just right. How does it ride?

My first fixed converstion, circa 1996-1997, was a black 58 cm Tempo -- a very nice handling bike, though quite heavy. But I recall gently reshaping the seatstay bridge with a hammer to allow accommodation of a 700C X 26 tire -- there was a bit more room in front. I forgot what happened to it ...

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.

By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

Other professional writing services.

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*************************************

The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. Carthusian motto

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm not really riding at the moment.  I have a leg injury that makes it difficult.  I'm a mechanic first, anyway.  Cyclist is a distant second

[Lee Haines]

Paul,

Can you divulge the source of this budget 650b wheelset?

I have 2 mid '80s schwinn travellers ('86 in black and '88 in teal/white fade). I've converted the '86 to 700 x 37 paselas which fit but make fenders nothing but a pipe dream. I'm considering converting the '88 to 650b.

thanks!

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 7:40:24 AM UTC-8, truegolden wrote:

[true]

Sure Lee.

 

They came off ebay.

Note, I am no wheel expert.

 

I am guessing I may have 300 miles or so on them.

For my experiment with 650b they are working well.

 

I think he accepted $10 less which covered part of shipping so I don't have much invested

into my test but overall they seem decent enough

 

The rims are  Zac19 36 hole and the hub shells have no labels but look very similar to what I have seen labeled Parallax / Alivio / Acera.

 

The bearings seemed way too tight so I opened them up and added a bit of grease and adjusted them where they spin nicely.

They also currently spin true. I am unsure about longevity on wheels at this price point.

 

I measured the outside width at 23mm. I guess the 19m he list is the inside width.

 

I do not see 36 spoke wheels listed currently. You might send the seller a message to inquire when he expects more.

Clicking on new listing links directed me to 28 spoke wheels.

 

Here's his description:

Silver 650B / 27.5 wheels, 130mm rear, 100mm front,

double walled aluminum alloy rims, 1"wide, 7/ 8/9 Speed,

( I can provide for free an adapter to convert wheel to 7 speed, just ask),

36 DT IND silver spokes, Alloy hubs, quick release skewers included,

Schrader valve drilling, ERTRO 584 x 19mm

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WHEELSET-650B-26-x-1-1-2-27-5-SLVR-130MM-7-8-9-SPD-WEI-ZAC19-36-H-/252184203241?nma=true&si=k%252BCYE%252BPjmTBrli9puKzslmwV6Uc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Safe pedaling,

Paul in Dallas

 

 

 

-----------------------------------

 

 

Lee Haines

10:39 AM (1 hour ago)

[Tim Gavin]

I have a set of identical cheapo 650b wheels from the same eBay seller (uglyrm).  He doesn't have any available right now, but keep an eye out for them.

I bought the cheapo set when I first tried 650b on my Riv Road.  I put about 1000 miles on the wheels, with a decent load (my 240 lbs plus about 20 lbs of cargo).  No problems, no re-truing needed.

I replaced the cheapos with a set I built (original Phil hubs to Synergy rims), and moved the cheapos to a 650b conversion of a Bianchi for my daughter.

My girlfriend's Soma San Marcos 51 cm build also came with these cheapo wheels.  She's much lighter than me, but has about 1500 miles on them with no problems.

My only complaint:  The ZAC19 rim has a deep well, much like a Synergy, which makes it tough to get tires to seat properly the first time.  Soap on the beads helps a lot.

--

[true]

Tim,

 

If you posted about those wheels here or on the ibob list I probably learned of them from you.

 

I don't come up with much original but continually learn from the good folks on these lists.

There are so many willing to share their knowledge and help others. Thanks to you all.

 

Trying what many of you have found works well has enabled me to get a few cool bikes dialed

in that are a pleasure to ride.

 

If I occasionally get one to look pretty good in the process it just adds to the enjoyment.

 

I don't recall if I shared this but another bike I miss and probably about the loveliest bike I have ever owned

(and I have owned a bunch over the years) since that 1985 Tempo was a brand new 1999 Joe built Riv Road

assisted by Grant to pick a size.

That's one I would probably take out a loan to get back and kick myself for letting it go.

 

At the time I was in a 'lighter is better' frame of mind. Live and learn.

Somewhere I still have the tube set design sheet he sent me showing the mix and match of tubes and the frame design.

It was a gorgeous blue color with contrasting creme head tube and terrific looking lugs.

I have a few pics of it somewhere.

 

[Eric Daume]

All this talk of 650B conversions has me thinking about this again. Are there are any budget (<$200) 650B wheelsets that don't suck? ie, that offer easy tire mounting, no rim cracking, etc... somehow this minimum level of competence seems elusive in the 650B market.

Eric

Dublin, OH

--

[Jim Bronson]

I don't know of any sub $200 700C wheelsets that would fill that
billing, never mind 650B. Think the answer is probably: No.

I got my QBP/Handspun Deore LX/Synergies new for less than $250 IIRC
with front Shimano dynamo. Unfortunately, the back Synergy rim
cracked. Velocity replaced it free with an Atlas which has been rock
solid and is very aesthetically similar to the Synergy. I did peel
off all the labels so it wasn't as easy to notice the difference
between the front Synergy and the rear Atlas.

Problem is QBP now wants more for those same wheels than they did 2
years ago, think a set would be more in the $300-$400 range.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
signature goes here

[Bill Lindsay]

I finally had decent afternoon light to take a few shots of the final bike

ALBUM

[Paul]

Bill , the Tempo turned out really nice.

I like the combination of the tape, sidewall tires and fenders against the light blue paint of the frame.

It has me thinking of installing the Berthoud stainless fenders I have hanging in the garage on one of my bikes.

I hope you are able to enjoy riding it b4 too long after injuries are healed.

Merry  Christmas and Happy holidays and New Year. 

Paul in Dallas

[A CT Cyclist]

Bill, I noticed on in the Flicker album you stated that you were going to dimple the chainstays to get a bit more clearance. Can you explain how you go about doing this?

On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 7:44:36 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

So I sold a few bikes to pay for a mountain bike.  You guys snapped up two of my three 650B bikes, and wanted the frames, but not the wheels.  

So I found myself with a surplus of 650B tires, and tried to sell off some, but you hardly bought any of them.  

So, it was irresistible, unavoidable that I buy a cheap vintage road bike to do a 650B conversion on.  Right?  Right!?

I worked at a Schwinn Shop through the mid 1980s, so I have a long standing softspot for mid-1980s Schwinn road bikes.  A standard ebay outing includes searches for Paramount, Peloton, Super Sport, Prologue, Circuit, Premis.  They were all made either in the US or Japan.  Many had Columbus or Prestige tubing.  They had great fork crowns for 650B, generally.  The only downer was that virtually all of them did not have fender eyelets.  A recent find had me looking through an archived scan of the 1985 Schwinn Catalog.  Flipping the virtual pages I was reminded of a model I had been overlooking: the Schwinn Tempo.  The 1985 Tempo was the number 4 model road bike (Paramount > Peloton > Super Sport > Tempo).  The Super Sport and Tempo both have a Columbus "Tenax" label, but the not-very-well-kept-secret was that Schwinn bought up a whole mess of cosmetic blem Columbus SL and SP at a discount and agreed to label it Tenax.  Thanks to the sneaky light tubing, the stock bikes were respectably light.  List weight of the Tempo was 22 lbs.  An added plus is that the Tempo was the only "Competition" road bike that year with eyelets for fenders.  

So, having added the Tempo to my standard search, I found one almost instantly on ebay.  It looks like a completely stock attic-find.  I got it at a half-way decent price ($249) and a horrible shipping cost ($95), but now I've got my Winter Project, again, thanks to you.  I'm going to do a 650B conversion on this nice 1985 Schwinn Tempo.

Anybody want to trade me or sell me a Nitto stem with a 25.4 clamp diameter and a 10cm or 11cm extension?

[Bill Lindsay]

CT Cyclist

drill a 1" diameter hole in a 2x4
cut the 2x4 in half, right through the hole
That half-hole is the cradle for one side of one chainstay
Find some hard thing that you want to press into the inside surface of that one chainstay
Clamp the crap out of your sandwich hard thing -- inside of chainstay -- outside of chainstay -- cradle
Repeat on the other chainstay

I usually have a spare rear hub clamped at the dropouts so I feel better about not accidentally respacing my rear end while I'm doing it
The crankset and front derailer are off when you are doing all this
I sometimes wrap the chainstay with gaffer tape to try to protect the finish a bit

The "hard thing" you choose to press into your chainstay is kind of important.  If your hard thing is too flat, then you are pressing too large an area on the chainstay and it's really hard to squish it.  You want to focus onto a small enough area that you can depress it a few mm. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA