SONdelux or Shutter Precision SV-8 Dynamo Hub?

[lungimsam]

Trying to decide on a dyno hub.

Which one has less drag and more power, and what else could be of concern?

I have read the blug about the Shutter, but it doesn't give definite stats on how it specifically compares to the SONdelux.

Since this is gonna be a big investment, I want to be sure I am getting something that's going to run lights really well, and not make noise, not make the bike vibrate, and keep the lights on after the wheel stops turning, etc. No flicker, no cutting out at low speeds, etc.

Thanks for any info.

[Chris Chen]

No flicker? Go back to batteries then.

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[Goshen Peter]

When you find this one wheel it must be destroyed in the fires from whence it came for surely it be evil.

[Noah Deuce]

Well, you're kind of talking about two different things:
1. I think the Shutter Precision (SP) vs the SON is a tough choice. I ultimately chose the SP and couldn't be happier. I've got thousands of miles on my first one, and it's still going strong. It's lighter, less drag, and more efficient than the SON. Maybe less durable - I'll let you know if I wear it out. OTOH, the SON has a longer warranty, more of a known quantity, and easier to get serviced (I believe). More retailers carry them, so it's easier to find a replacement/warranty if necessary.

2. When you talk about flickering and the light staying on, that's a light design issue. Some lights (e.g. B&M Cyo Premium) flicker at low speed but have a smaller standlight built in that stays steady at a light. Others (e.g. B&M Fly(?)) flicker at low speed and also don't have a standlight. They flicker because they don't have capacitors or a battery to take up the load when your wheel turns slowly and doesn't produce much power (true for all dynamos). Some (Exposure Revo) have a battery built in that smooths that out and keeps the steady (if slightly dinner) at slow speed. Others (k-lite) have some super capacitors that provide less power than a battery, but also prevent slow-speed flicker.

So, SP and SON - hard to go wrong.
Light to pair with it - you've got to figure out what your priorities and riding needs are. My favorite dynamo light (right now) is the Revo, but I do a lot of country biking - I want those 800 lumens on dirt roads. My favorite city light is the B&M Cyo Premium (or the eDelux II - optics are identical) because you won't blind drivers or people on paths.

Hope this helps!

[lungimsam]

Thanks for the very useful info!
Based on the first half of your reply, the SP looks like they way to go for my needs.

But the SP having less drag than the Sondeluxe is based on your experience or is this known from stats/studies?

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

Don't forget Shimano. I have nearly 10 years/15,000 miles on one of theirs, and I'm pretty pleased with it. Cheap and readily available and very reliable.

[BSWP]

I've been weighing dyno hub options, too. The SP has flanges that are 50 mm wide (outer face to outer face). The SON's flanges are also 50 mm apart. But the SONdelux "wide body" has 67 mm flanges, which should provide a stronger more stable wheel.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp

For my weight (230 pounds getting out of bed) I won't mind the very slight extra weight of the wider hubs is really no concern at all. But the price of the wide body, 3x the SP, yikes...

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Rick]

What size tire?  Rich said that on 700c that the SONdelux will cut out a bit at lower speeds, whereas the SON28 does not.  More resistance (marginal) on latter.

[lungimsam]

650b Sam and Bleriot.

 

Looks like fork mount or fork crown will be the way to go, though I think I won't like the wheels shadows from fork mounting.

 

Maybe I'll just have to pony up for a front rack after all!

 

Which leads to the next question - hanging or standing edeluxe? 

[Jim Bronson]

Ignoring the original question about the SP hubs and focusing on the
flickering that people are talking about....

I have the SON Deluxe Widebody with the Cyo Premium T. The light
flickers at approximately .001 MPH, but by the time you're going 3 or
4 MPH, the light is solid. Truthfully, so far I have not been able to
ride slow enough to make the light flicker while I am actually riding
the bike. I would be willing to bet money that any other modern LED
light would also operate well with this hub. I see many others riding
different lights with SON Deluxe hubs in the RUSA clubs in Texas and
elsewhere and nobody has a problem with flicking at realistic cycling
speeds that will keep you from falling off your bike.

I think this flicker issue is way overstated. You only need the SON
non-deluxe if you are using old school lights like the E6, or if you
are powering your phone and Garmin from the hub also. $0.02.

If you do any sort of riding that will require a water bottle to
maintain hydration, you will want the lower rolling resistance of the
SON Deluxe. The hub operation is barely perceptible. My
seat-of-the-pants opinion is that the old school SON28s and the
Shimano hubs have much more rolling resistance. I have owned all
three types and I put thousands of kilometers in brevets on both the
SON28 and the Shimano hubs and after having a SON Deluxe for a few
months, I would never go back.

The ones with more resistance are fine for just puttering around
within a few miles of your house.

Now, back to the original topic, I am intrigued by the Shutter
Precision hubs, but there they have a similar question between the
PV-8 and the SV-8 which has lower rolling resistance. I don't know if
it's similar to the SON28/SON deluxe, but I look forward to seeing
this question answered.

-Jim

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Jason Hartman]

FWIW, my circa 1996 son28 lights an old version of the edeluxe to full strength just walking the bike across the room. I have no experience with the deluxe version of the hub. I thought about upgrading last year, but decided to save my money for a new bike instead. 

Jay Hartman. 

[Patrick Moore]

When walking my 1st gen Edeluxe powered by SON 20R up a steep hill (fixed gear, OK?) it flickers slightly and the light, while almost steady, is dimmer than at, say, 4 mph. You have to slow to a crawl for real, discontinuous flickering. 559X32mm wheels.

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[blakcloud]

The Edelux 2 is brighter than the original Edelux and can be wired to a rear light. The updside down Edelux was not upgraded to the second version and you cannot hook up a rear light to it.

My experimentation with dynamo lighting was with a Shimano dynamo and the upside down Edelux and it works just fine. After owning it for six months, I wish I had bought the Edelux 2 and a rear light to be powered by the dynamo.

I attached it to a Mark's rack with the Problem Solver nut that was showcased in the Blug. Not a great photo but you can see it here.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/87106495@N07/14031552817/in/set-72157644324781978

[lungimsam]

Do you all get wheel shadow from mounting to the side of racks? Is it annoying? I once mounted a battery light to fork and it was annoying. Maybe up higher by the rack isn;t as bad.

Thanks for all this great info, you all. And I consider it Riv content because I wanted to hear from Riv riders on this since we have multiple mounting points on our bikes and because I think riv-riders are more likely than a mainstream USA biker to use dyno hubs.

I am learning a lot here, so thanks again.

Sounds like flicker is a non-issue nowadays.

[lungimsam]

I read online that:

PV-8 -  equivalent of the SON28, higher output, a little more drag than SV-8.

SV-8-  equivalent to the SONdelux. A little less drag, but a little less efficient if you use it to charge devices.

[ted]

I have mounted a light on a Paul Gino mount on the side of a nitto mini front rack. I did not care for the wheel shadow and off centre beam, so I moved the light to front center. I expect many others would have found the side mount fine.
YMMV

[Kieran J]

I run a B&M Lumotec Cyo on a porteur rack, at the front right corner, under a basket. The positioning is quite off-centre but in front of the wheel so no shadow or interference with the beam. Works great, no issues that I've experienced. 

To supplement others' comments, the light does flicker at low speed, but that's usually when I'm pulling up to a stoplight and the flickering usually gets people's attention, possibly more than a solid beam. I always see people's eyes drawn to the flickering light.

KJ

[Mark Reimer]

I have a SONdelux and an eDelux 2 light. I cannot feel any perceptible drag. No difference when riding with the light on (load bearing) vs off (no load). If I lift the wheel off the ground, it spins for ages before the resistance will stop it. In my opinion, tire selection makes a MUCH bigger difference in resistance than this dynamo hub.

I have not compared it to other dynamo's. I got the SON because of it's excellent reputation, and fantastic looks. I like my bikes to be pretty. 

The eDelux 2 is amazing. I have it mounted to a Nitto Campee front rack. There is a slight shadow from the front wheel but it has no impact on riding and I don't even notice it for that matter. 

Also, I have successfully charged USB battery packs with the SONdelux, though it does take a while. Charging an iPhone 5s from the hub directly is very finicky as I need to maintain enough speed to generate exactly the required output for the phone. I prefer to just charge a USB battery over a few hours, then charge my phone with it when I'm done riding and setting up camp. 

[William deRosset]

Dear lungimsam,

The SV-8 has the same power output characteristics (by design) as the SONdelux. I have found them to be very slightly higher-drag (within the range of other SON hubs I've owned, though, and I've had several--I maintain five hub generators on currently-ridden machines) with the lights on, but no buzzier. 

The "low speed cutout, flicker, and lights on after the wheel stops turning" criteria are largely a function of which LED light you choose and your definition of "low speed". With a Cyo or an Edelux, that cutout is just above strolling speed with either an SV-8 or a SONdelux. I like the Edelux II or its close relative, the Cyo Premium.  

What do you get with an Edelux that you don't with an SV-8 for the big upcharge? A pressure compensation system and possibly longer bearing life, nicer/lovely fit and finish, the option to have a wide-flange model, and made in Germany. I can't comment on aftermarket support one way or another, as I've only had one hub generator go bad (in 2002) in the fifteen years since I adopted the technology. Peter White fixed my heavily-used first-generation SON, and denied the warranty claim, though the problem was a known corrosion issue with the early SONs. I buy from others with more leverage with the distributor (PJW) rather than direct these days. 

You won't regret the choice either way.

Best Regards,

Will

William M. deRosset

Fort Collins, CO

[Patrick Moore]

Will: You say "I have found [the SV-8] to be very slightly higher-drag..." The syntax of your paragraph leaves me wondering: do you mean, "than the SONs"? Or than the SON Deluxe? Or than ...?

Second, how do you tell? The reviews, such as I've read, claim even less drag than at least some SONs.

My own experience (1 SON 28, 1 SON 20 R, 1 S something 8 SP, and 3 higher level Shimanos) is, for what it's worth, that the 20 R has least and the Shimanos and the SP whatever 8 are about the same. The SP has the most vibration: I was spinning the Open Pro/Parigi Roubaix front wheel on the Ram last night and noticed the vibration on the stand.

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 7:36 PM, William deRosset <wmder...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear lungimsam,

The SV-8 has the same power output characteristics (by design) as the SONdelux. I have found them to be very slightly higher-drag (within the range of other SON hubs I've owned, though, and I've had several--I maintain five hub generators on currently-ridden machines) with the lights on, but no buzzier. 

--

[Steven Frederick]

I sure did! (get a wheel shadow)  Didn't like it at all.  I now have it mounted in the front of my front basket on a Paul's stem cap mount-works pretty well.

Steve