Seat Comfort - Re: [Randon] Digest for randon@googlegroups.com - 19 Messages in 7 Topics

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John Hughes

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May 24, 2012, 5:42:10 PM5/24/12
to ran...@googlegroups.com
Seat discomfort could be due to a number of factors:
  • Wrong saddle width. I've done dozens of fits with clients with Andy Pruitt at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine.  He sets up Cavendish, Leipheimer, and the Schleck brothers as well as randonneurs and RAAMsters.  He says that your sitz bones should sit on the saddle so that there is no pressure on the soft tissue nor chafing on your legs. He & Specialized have developed a tool for measuring the width of your sitz bones, since they vary by individual so you can get a saddle that fits. 
  • Poor bike fit.  Probably 25% of the people I see riding have their saddles too high ... their hips are rocking instead of stable .... and I know they are chafing!
  • Poor setup. If the saddle isn't level and you slide back and forth ...
  • Leg length discrepancy. Richard figured this out.  If one hip is dropping and the other is stable I suspect a leg length inequality.
  • Anatomical variations. If one or both knees are brushing the top tube instead of tracking straight up and down over the 2nd toe, then you may chafe.  You need to work on your gluteals on the outside of your buttocks.
There's an article on my website on Points of Contact problems:


If you are having saddle (or other physical) issues I strongly recommend getting a competent bike fit.  Specialized and Andy Pruitt have trained bike fit techs around the country.  Techs at a BG Fit Center have been through two courses at Specialized.  Certified Master Technicians have to do a fit correctly in front of Andy!

Yours for increasing comfort!
John
www.coach-hughes.com
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:35 PM, <ran...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Group: http://groups.google.com/group/randon/topics

    "Dan Driscoll" <dans...@flash.net> May 23 08:33AM -0500  

    I'm perfectly happy with the way RUSA has The Ultra Award set up, allowing
    credit for more than one series per year. I don't think changing the USA
    rules to match the United Kingdom rules would make The Ultra Award any more
    desirable or impressive, I think the opposite. For the overachievers, the
    RUSA rules allow them to earn credit for as many full series in a year as
    they like, not just one per year. If you only want to do one series a year
    and take the full 10 years to earn the Award, you can do it that way and
    RUSA allows for that as well. I'm pretty impressed with a guy named Gary who
    was able to darn near earn an Ultra Award (10 series) in one year. No matter
    how you slice it 9 full series in one year is very impressive. You could
    always see how many Ultra Awards you could earn in 10 years, there is
    nothing wrong with earning two or more Ultra Award in 10 years, or earning
    one Ultra Award in less than 10 years. How about earning 5 or more Ultras in
    10 years? It's actually happening, one Award every two years, for ten years.
    I think that has plenty of merit. I like the fact the USA Version of the
    Ultra Award is different than our United Kingdom's counterparts Award. If
    you need a bigger 10 year goal, how about the Galaxy Award ? J RUSA
    certainly has more than enough to keep us all busy. I miss Doris, too J. DD
     

     
    From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
    William Beck
    Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 2:52 PM
    To: ran...@googlegroups.com
    Subject: [Randon] Re: Virtual Randonee
     

     
    Damon,
     
    Thanks for the very nice video. That's certainly the first time I've heard
    Doris Day in many years.
     
    I wish the US Ultra Randonneur award required an SR series in 10 separate
    years. It would be a more desirable and impressive award that way IMHO.
     
    Bill Beck
     
    On Friday, May 18, 2012 10:28:34 AM UTC-4, Damon wrote:
     
    I'm not doing much this year. Last year was PBP, next year will be
    LEL, and I reached Ultra Randonneur status last year. That's an SR in
    10 seperate years in the UK. So I need something to keep the interest
    up.There's a 600k this weekend in Wales. I filmed the scenic bits of
    it in 2010.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxHWajFKfRU
    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxHWajFKfRU&feature=g-upl> &feature=g-upl
    The big unknown about Wales is the weather. The forecast is good, Most
    will reach Beddgelert at around 6pm.
    http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Wales/Beddgelert~2656049I'm
    <http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Wales/Beddgelert%7E2656049I%27m>
    a fan of Norwegian weather forecasting.
    I'm quite interested in some of the references to Parkway and Skyline
    Drives in US routesheets. We have the advantage of sea views with rock
    strewn mountains, when we can see them. I'd love to see a few scenic
    sequences of US rides to keep up my interest during a season when
    there are other priorities. Even though I'm not doing rides I like to
    be reminded of what they can be like.
     
    Damon.
     
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    William Beck <william...@gmail.com> May 23 09:35AM -0700  

    Dan,
     
    That's a perfectly reasonable way to look at it, and that must have been
    what the people who created the award had in mind.
     
    My point was that the current award doesn't require what I think is the
    most impressive aspect of the UK version -- being in condition to do an SR
    series in 10 separate years.That's more impressive to me (just my opinion)
    than doing them in fewer years since, once you're in shape to do a 600K,
    the number of SR series that you can do in a year is more limited by time
    and travel budget than by conditioning. Putting it another way, the UK
    version is like the US R-12 award where you have to do at least one 200K
    every month -- you can't just do 12 rides in the first three months of the
    year. I like that aspect.
     
    But, as you said, doing lots of SR series in a single year, or 10 in any
    number of years, is very impressive in its own way.
     
    Bill

     

    David Buzzee <d_bu...@yahoo.com> May 23 10:30AM -0700  

    Stretching the recognition over ten years does indeed relflect a long-term commitment to the sport. If the calculation has been done, what is the average tenure between someone joining RUSA and later abandoning the membership before ten years have elapsed?
     
    db

     
    ________________________________
    From: William Beck <william...@gmail.com>
    To: ran...@googlegroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:35 PM
    Subject: [Randon] Re: Ultra Awards - why just one every 10 years?

     
    Dan,
     
    That's a perfectly reasonable way to look at it, and that must have been what the people who created the award had in mind.
     
    My point was that the current award doesn't require what I think is the most impressive aspect of the UK version -- being in condition to do an SR series in 10 separate years.That's more impressive to me (just my opinion) than doing them in fewer years since, once you're in shape to do a 600K, the number of SR series that you can do in a year is more limited by time and travel budget than by conditioning. Putting it another way, the UK version is like the US R-12 award where you
    have to do at least one 200K every month -- you can't just do 12 rides in the first three months of the year. I like that aspect.
     
    But, as you said, doing lots of SR series in a single year, or 10 in any number of years, is very impressive in its own way.
     
    Bill
    --

     

    "Dan Driscoll" <dans...@flash.net> May 23 01:27PM -0500  

    Would love to know all the stats, on this and other questions, but I can't
    get that from the RUSA website (yet) J. I think a lot of RUSA members have
    already earned an Ultra Award the UK way (at least one series per year for
    10 years), and I know of at least one RUSA members that has earned a full
    series or more for all 14 years of RUSA. UK has a great programs, but in
    general the USA may have more overachievers, in terms of series per year and
    total K's per year, that's just one of the reasons I like the RUSA rules the
    way they are, but glad we can all respectfully disagree. RUSA could always
    add another Award for a series OR more per year for 10 years in a row Or any
    10 years in a lifetime. Many would already have it, it couldn't hurt, but
    not really necessary, but you could petition for it. The RUSA members that
    have done it or will do it, already know who they are, but it's fun to
    plant this seed with anyone that has not yet thought about it.
     

     
    DD
     

     
    From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
    David Buzzee
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:30 PM
    To: William Beck; ran...@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Randon] Re: Ultra Awards - why just one every 10 years?
     

     
    Stretching the recognition over ten years does indeed relflect a long-term
    commitment to the sport. If the calculation has been done, what is the
    average tenure between someone joining RUSA and later abandoning the
    membership before ten years have elapsed?
     
    db
     
    From: William Beck <william...@gmail.com>
    To: ran...@googlegroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:35 PM
    Subject: [Randon] Re: Ultra Awards - why just one every 10 years?
     

     
    Dan,
     
    That's a perfectly reasonable way to look at it, and that must have been
    what the people who created the award had in mind.
     
    My point was that the current award doesn't require what I think is the most
    impressive aspect of the UK version -- being in condition to do an SR series
    in 10 separate years.That's more impressive to me (just my opinion) than
    doing them in fewer years since, once you're in shape to do a 600K, the
    number of SR series that you can do in a year is more limited by time and
    travel budget than by conditioning. Putting it another way, the UK version
    is like the US R-12 award where you have to do at least one 200K every month
    -- you can't just do 12 rides in the first three months of the year. I like
    that aspect.
     
    But, as you said, doing lots of SR series in a single year, or 10 in any
    number of years, is very impressive in its own way.
     
    Bill
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    Iron Rider <100...@gmail.com> May 23 08:26AM -0700  

    Does anyone's butt not chafe/hurt after a 20+ hour ride? If so, what
    are you doing that I'm not?

     

    Ryan Watson <rswa...@me.com> May 23 09:56AM -0600  


    > Does anyone's butt not chafe/hurt after a 20+ hour ride?
     
    Mine doesn't :-)
     
     
    > If so, what
    > are you doing that I'm not?
     
    Brooks B17, Rapha Chamois, and Anti Monkey-Butt Powder!
     
     
    Ryan

     

    Jan Heine <hei...@earthlink.net> May 23 09:17AM -0700  

    At 9:56 AM -0600 5/23/12, Ryan Watson wrote:
     
    >> If so, what
    >> are you doing that I'm not?
     
    >Brooks B17, Rapha Chamois, and Anti Monkey-Butt Powder!
     
    I use a similar solution - Brooks Professional, real leather chamois,
    Sixtufit chamois cream (applied hours before the ride to let it soak
    in).
     
    Coasting on the downhills allows me to lift the behind off the saddle slightly.
     
    Also, interval training. The harder you pedal, the less weight is on
    the saddle...
     
    That said, even when touring with less power output, I usually don't
    suffer from saddle problems.
     
    Jan Heine
    Editor
    Bicycle Quarterly
    http://www.bikequarterly.com
     
    Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/
    --

     

    Jim Logan <jimlo...@gmail.com> May 23 12:17PM -0400  

    Mine is good for 48 hours ==>. Sella Anatomica saddle.
     
    I use a B17 on my century bike, and a Sella Anatomica on my ultra-distance bike.
     
    Jim Logan
     

     

    Mark Wolff <m_w...@ymail.com> May 23 09:19AM -0700  

    Pretty much the same thing here: B-17, Bag Balm and plenty of training miles....
     
    It takes some time to figure out what works best for you.
     
    MW

     

    "DistanceBiker.com" <Ric...@DistanceBiker.com> May 23 10:20AM -0600  

    After most 10+ hour rides my right side always had chafing. After battling
    this for two seasons I determined it is related to leg length inequality. I
    have now shimmed up the shoe on my short leg and the problem has mostly
    disappeared. I have also had to go with a leather saddle (Gilles Berthoud)
    as it compensates for such problems, unlike a plastic saddle (I'm a bit of
    a weight wennie so I prefer plastic IF they would suit me better).
    For an extensive blog report on my quest for the perfect saddle visit this
    page on RandoRichard.com <http://www.randorichard.com/hints-helps/saddles>.
    Cheers,
    Rando Richard
    RandoRichard.com <http://www.RandoRichard.com> (blog)
    Distance Biker <http://www.DistanceBiker.com> (roadie gear)
    eoGEAR <http://www.eogear.com> (rando & SUP bags)
    RUSA member # 4638 & UMCA member # 5305
     
    Does anyone's butt not chafe/hurt after a 20+ hour ride? If so, what

     

    "Jim House" <jho...@ccsol.com> May 23 01:34PM -0400  

    I use a Brooks Pro - I am on my second one -first lasted about 25 years and
    over 100,000 miles.
    I am on my third year of the replacement and my butt is almost broken into
    the new saddle.
    I did a 1000K on the new saddle after having it two months without any
    issues (and a lot of rain).
    I did PBP on the new saddle after 1 year of use without any issues
     
    I never use any creams.
     
    I will change bibs to a different brand of bibs every day - different seam
    pattern as well as different pads.
    First pick is Hincapie Emergence 9 panel bib
    Second is Santini 8 panel with a DuPont Cool Max Techno Pad (pro team
    quality with radio pocket)
    A close Second is Casttelli VELOCISSIMO EQUIPE 10 panel bib with the kiss
    pad
    I also love the Casttelli nickers and winter weight long leg bibs
     
    Keeping very clean down there is very important, I even go as far as to try
    NEVER to pass gas...
     
    Good luck in finding what work FOR YOU!
     
    Jim House
    Maumee, OH
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
    Ryan Watson
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:57 AM
    To: Iron Rider
    Cc: randon
    Subject: Re: [Randon] Seat comfort
     
     
     
    > Does anyone's butt not chafe/hurt after a 20+ hour ride?
     
    Mine doesn't :-)
     
     
    > If so, what
    > are you doing that I'm not?
     
    Brooks B17, Rapha Chamois, and Anti Monkey-Butt Powder!
     
     
    Ryan
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
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    "Susan Otcenas" <su...@teamestrogen.com> May 23 10:36AM -0700  

    >>Does anyone's butt not chafe/hurt after a 20+ hour ride? If so, what
    are you doing that I'm not?
     
    I can ride pretty much forever with little discomfort.
     
    Bucking the pervasive rando Brooks/Selle An-Atomica cult (I seriously
    dislike those things), I've found the Terry Butterfly to be the best
    thing since sliced bread. It's firm, has no hard edges, and doesn't
    require a break-in period. It's great from day one. There's a men's
    version (the Terry Fly) that's a little narrower than the women's
    butterfly.
     
    On long rides (I don't bother until 300K or so), I also find Lantiseptic
    to be a great preventative tool. It's tenacious (stays in place and
    doesn't disappear or require frequent re-applications) and purchased in
    bulk is quite inexpensive.
     
    It also helps to wear QUALITY cycling shorts, and to replace them
    regularly. News flash: cycling shorts don't last forever. Even the
    softest chamois fabrics become rougher and stiffer after regular use and
    many washings. Even the best quality fabrics lose their "recovery"
    properties, by which I mean that they stretch out over time and the
    fabric doesn't "recover" to it's former close fit. Shorts should fit
    snugly but without discomfort. Shorts that are too loose or have lost
    their compressiveness will not sit as closely to your body. If the
    chamois is not snug against your backside, it will subtly shift around
    and back and forth as you pedal. Over the distances we ride, that
    subtle movement will cause chafing. If your shorts are "wrinkly" when
    you're wearing them, or the chamois sags away from your butt, the shorts
    are TOO LARGE or are WORN OUT. Time to replace.
     
    I've ridden behind a few too many randos who *really* need to replace
    their shorts...
     
    Make sure you choose shorts with chamois that are appropriate to your
    body shape. Do you chafe from the chamois at the inside of the upper
    thigh? Perhaps you've chosed a short with a chamois that is too wide or
    bulky in the center. Do you chafe on the buttock, closer to where you
    butt cheek meets the upper thigh? Perhaps you've chosen a short with a
    chamois placement that is too fore or aft for your particular anatomy,
    so that the edge of the chamois is causing abrasion. Once you find a
    pair that works, buy another. Or two! Vendors tinker with this stuff
    all the time, so get another pair before they change it.
     
     
    Susan
     
     
    ***********************************************
    Susan Otcenas
    Team Estrogen, Inc.
    www.TeamEstrogen.com
    877-310-4592
    ***********************************************
    Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
    Look for "teamestrogen.com"
    ***********************************************

     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
    Of Iron Rider
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:26 AM
    To: randon
    Subject: [Randon] Seat comfort
     
    Does anyone's butt not chafe/hurt after a 20+ hour ride? If so, what are
    you doing that I'm not?
     
    --

     

    David Buzzee <d_bu...@yahoo.com> May 23 10:38AM -0700  

    Huh? Never pass gas? This concept boggles the mind (and other parts as well).
    db

     
    ________________________________
    From: Jim House <jho...@ccsol.com>
    To: 'Ryan Watson' <rswa...@me.com>; 'Iron Rider' <100...@gmail.com>
    Cc: 'randon' <ran...@googlegroups.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:34 PM
    Subject: RE: [Randon] Seat comfort

    I use a Brooks Pro - I am on my second one -first lasted about 25 years and
    over 100,000 miles.
    I am on my third year of the replacement and my butt is almost broken into
    the new saddle.
    I did a 1000K on the new saddle after having it two months without any
    issues (and a lot of rain).
    I did PBP on the new saddle after 1 year of use without any issues
     
    I never use any creams.
     
    I will change bibs to a different brand of bibs every day - different seam
    pattern as well as different pads.
    First pick is Hincapie Emergence 9 panel bib
    Second is Santini 8 panel with a DuPont Cool Max Techno Pad (pro team
    quality with radio pocket)
    A close Second is Casttelli VELOCISSIMO EQUIPE 10 panel bib with the kiss
    pad
    I also love the Casttelli nickers and winter weight long leg bibs
     
    Keeping very clean down there is very important, I even go as far as to try
    NEVER to pass gas...
     
    Good luck in finding what work FOR YOU!
     
    Jim House
    Maumee, OH
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
    Ryan Watson
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:57 AM
    To: Iron Rider
    Cc: randon
    Subject: Re: [Randon] Seat comfort
     
     
     
    > Does anyone's butt not chafe/hurt after a 20+ hour ride?
     
    Mine doesn't :-)
     
     
    > If so, what
    > are you doing that I'm not?
     
    Brooks B17, Rapha Chamois, and Anti Monkey-Butt Powder!
     
     
    Ryan
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
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    Old5ten <old5...@gmail.com> May 23 10:30AM -0700  

    skratch products are currently (for another day or so) on sale at the
    clymb. might be worth to check it out.
     
    elmar
     

     

    William Beck <william...@gmail.com> May 22 12:51PM -0700  

    Damon,
     
    Thanks for the very nice video. That's certainly the first time I've heard
    Doris Day in many years.
     
    I wish the US Ultra Randonneur award required an SR series in 10 separate
    years. It would be a more desirable and impressive award that way IMHO.
     
    Bill Beck
     
    On Friday, May 18, 2012 10:28:34 AM UTC-4, Damon wrote:

     

    David Buzzee <d_bu...@yahoo.com> May 23 09:29AM -0700  

    not a video but a still shot taken at dawn on our recent Central New York fleche showing four smiling riders with Niagra Falls behind them and the sun rising behind it all
    db

     

    "William D. Volk" <willia...@gmail.com> May 22 02:55PM -0700  

    An old RUDGE 3 Speed was my first bicycle. Saw one at 14:36 in the film. Very nice.
     
    William Volk
     
    On May 21, 2012, at 4:01 PM, dgoody wrote:
     

     

    John Hughes <coachjo...@gmail.com> May 22 03:03PM -0400  

    Andrea,
     
    Love the idea of dried potato flakes! Add something catsup and they're
    almost gourmet :-)
     
    Cheers,
    John
    SentViaDroid

     

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Emily O'Brien

unread,
May 24, 2012, 8:26:53 PM5/24/12
to John Hughes, ran...@googlegroups.com
While everyone's making the usual points about bike fit and how much they love their leather saddles, I'm going to put in a word for a little self-analysis and old-fashioned trial and error.  There are lots of choices and lots of variety.  Some have a huge difference between the width of the back and the nose, some taper very gradually.  Some curve over the top from side to side, some are flat.  Some have a bit of a dip in the middle, some don't.  Some have cutouts, and the cutouts vary too.  You can narrow the possibilities by picturing where you have a point of contact that bothers you, and looking for a saddle that's shaped differently in that area.  If a saddle solves one problem but creates another, try to figure out what aspects of its shape had those effects.  Some you can get an idea about just by sitting on for a short time; others you need longer to figure it out.  If you're friendly with your LBS, they might let you put your bike up on a trainer in the store and try out different saddles that were taken off of other bikes when someone swapped.  If they won't let you return saddles that you installed and tried out, you can order them from the various Nashbars of the world, who will let you return just about anything.  

I can be happy enough riding a century on most standard plastic road saddles.  But my winning combination was a saddle from a take-off bin at a bike shop, which has a good shape except that it has a cutout, which I don't like.  So I put a neoprene triathlon cover over it, which covers up the sharp-ish corners of the cutout, and I'm happy.  When it wore out, I went and bought three more just like it (fortunately it's not expensive.
FWIW, I don't like leather saddles AT ALL.  

Emily 

-----------------------------------
Dill Pickle
... gear for the extra mile

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