[Evangelism] Re: Plone statistics

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Nate Aune

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Oct 20, 2008, 7:38:39 PM10/20/08
to Horak, Karl, Jon Stahl, ma...@netsight.co.uk, evang...@lists.plone.org
Hi Karl and Matt,

Great talking to you both at the Plone Conference about gathering
statistics about the size and scope of the Plone community. See this
recent discussion on plone.user on this subject:
http://groups.google.com/group/plone-users/browse_thread/thread/efbf35c618f02135/b0f733b1efd846e2?lnk=gst#b0f733b1efd846e2

> Regarding your Plone Census, that's a great idea. Making direct calls to validate and update Plone.net numbers would be feasible if we > did it by contacting a scientific sample. Then we could at least put error bars on our estimates.

Who would like to volunteer to make these calls to validate the
numbers? At the marketing session at the sprint, we also discussed
asking Plone vendors also if they would be willing to be the press
contact for their particular country/region/language. So we could kill
two birds with one stone when making these phone calls.

> In a similar but less formal vein, on my blog, I make an attempt to fish out interesting stats and track them over time. For example, I
> check the Amazon bookrank numbers every quarter. Attached is a spreadsheet in which I'm trying to accumulate values on a wide ?
> number of parameters relevant to Plone's acceptance, visibility, and programmatic health. Some of the difficult numbers might be
> easily found by someone with more access to Launchpad numbers. Others are just plain hard-to-get numbers.

Could you post this spreadsheet to the openplans area that I've set up
for identifying metrics and collecting/analyzing statistics?
http://www.openplans.org/projects/plone-marketing/metrics-and-statistics

We might also want to make this available as a Google Spreadsheet so
that others can contribute to it.

Would you be willing to the the team leader for the "Metrics and
Statistics" marketing working group?

> Also on my blog I've floated the idea of the "Great Backyard Plone Count," to be modeled after the Audubon Society's "Great Backyard > Bird Count." Dedicate a weekend for Plonistas to do informal surveys of Plone use and report in via a website. (BTW, the Audubon
> Society uses Plone for their annual bird count :-)

Jon Stahl (cc'ed) has used Surveymonkey.com in the past to conduct
surveys, mostly around the Plone conference 2006 in Seattle. I've also
used this service and found it to be quite good. We could come up with
some different surveys to gather statistics about things we would like
to know about the Plone community. Maybe we could offer a prize to one
lucky survey responder, and get sponsors to give something away to
encourage people to fill out the survey. For example, Packt Publishing
could donate a Plone book.

> Another approach is data mining like Lakomy's estimate of Plone use in England:
> http://www.llakomy.com/articles/plone-websites-in-uk/) This has promise if we can overcome some of the hurdles he faced, like
> limitations on search results brought back by Google.

Yes, this is an interesting study and one we should consider doing on
a more global scale.

Nate

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Hamilton <ma...@netsight.co.uk>
> To: sch...@swcp.com
> Subject: Plone statistics
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:27:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ma...@netsight.co.uk)
>> Hiya,
>> I just saw your stats blog from the Plone Marketing group on Open
>> Plans. I don't think i got a chance to meet you at Plone Conf this
>> year, but at the sprint afterwards we had a really good session on
>> marketing. One of the items I want to deal with is the perennial 'how
>> many people are using Plone?' 'how big is 'plone'?' etc... to this end
>> I want to try and create a set of re-usable statistics for marketing
>> purposes that we can revisit each year. My thoughts are some kind of
>> 'Plone Census'.
>>
>> I originally wanted to extract info from plone.net, as it has hidden
>> info on number of employees and turnover of each company. However
>> that data has probably not been updated since each profile was created
>> (and some profiles are of companies that no longer exist). In
>> chatting to Dave Shapiro of Pilot Systems in Paris who runs Plone.net
>> we had the idea of a slightly more in-depth Plone Census, which will
>> probabaly involve actually calling up each of the companies on
>> Plone.net and trying to extract a bit more info out of them. And also
>> maybe use it as a chance to plug the upcoming plone.net sponsorship
>> programme.
>>
>> Since you are interested in statistics, I was hoping you might have
>> some input on this process (so far we've only had a 15 min chat
>> outside the sprint, so feel free to blow holes in our ideas!).
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> --
>> Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk
>> Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver
>> http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901
>> Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location |
>> Hosting
>>
>>
>

--
Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com
http://nateaune.com (personal blog)
http://jazkarta.com (open source technology solutions)
http://twitter.com/natea (daily updates)

PondCMS: Fully managed Plone-based CMS solution
http://jazkarta.com/products/pondcms

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Tim Knapp

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Oct 20, 2008, 7:58:35 PM10/20/08
to evang...@lists.plone.org
Hi Nate,

We've got a similar idea[1] for World Plone Day, i.e. fill out an online
survey and win 1 of 8 books from PacktPub. Is there any way we could
colloborate on producing the survey?

Thanks,
Tim

[1] http://www.openplans.org/projects/plone-marketing/wpd-roadmap

T. Kim Nguyen

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Oct 20, 2008, 9:57:34 PM10/20/08
to Nate Aune, Horak, Karl, ma...@netsight.co.uk, evang...@lists.plone.org, Jon Stahl

On Oct 20, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Nate Aune wrote:

> Jon Stahl (cc'ed) has used Surveymonkey.com in the past to conduct
> surveys, mostly around the Plone conference 2006 in Seattle. I've also
> used this service and found it to be quite good. We could come up with
> some different surveys to gather statistics about things we would like
> to know about the Plone community. Maybe we could offer a prize to one
> lucky survey responder, and get sponsors to give something away to
> encourage people to fill out the survey. For example, Packt Publishing
> could donate a Plone book.

Is there a reason why we wouldn't try to use Plone Survey instead of
some crummy PHP app? ;-) UW Oshkosh has been using Plone Survey
successfully for some time now. Dog food, etc.

Kim

Nate Aune

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Oct 20, 2008, 10:07:11 PM10/20/08
to T. Kim Nguyen, Horak, Karl, ma...@netsight.co.uk, evang...@lists.plone.org, Jon Stahl
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:57 PM, T. Kim Nguyen <ngu...@uwosh.edu> wrote:
>
> On Oct 20, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Nate Aune wrote:
>
>> Jon Stahl (cc'ed) has used Surveymonkey.com in the past to conduct
>> surveys, mostly around the Plone conference 2006 in Seattle. I've also
>> used this service and found it to be quite good. We could come up with
>> some different surveys to gather statistics about things we would like
>> to know about the Plone community. Maybe we could offer a prize to one
>> lucky survey responder, and get sponsors to give something away to
>> encourage people to fill out the survey. For example, Packt Publishing
>> could donate a Plone book.
>
> Is there a reason why we wouldn't try to use Plone Survey instead of some
> crummy PHP app? ;-) UW Oshkosh has been using Plone Survey successfully for
> some time now. Dog food, etc.

I'm all for eating one's own dogfood if it is the best tool for the
job. I haven't looked at PloneSurvey for awhile so I'm not sure how it
stacks up to Surveymonkey.com. I don't really care which tool we use
as long as we can get relevant data out of it for analysis purposes.

Nate

--
Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com
http://nateaune.com (personal blog)
http://jazkarta.com (open source technology solutions)
http://twitter.com/natea (daily updates)

PondCMS: Fully managed Plone-based CMS solution
http://jazkarta.com/products/pondcms

_______________________________________________

Tim Knapp

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Oct 20, 2008, 10:26:18 PM10/20/08
to evang...@lists.plone.org
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 22:07 -0400, Nate Aune wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:57 PM, T. Kim Nguyen <ngu...@uwosh.edu> wrote:
> >
> > On Oct 20, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Nate Aune wrote:
> >
> >> Jon Stahl (cc'ed) has used Surveymonkey.com in the past to conduct
> >> surveys, mostly around the Plone conference 2006 in Seattle. I've also
> >> used this service and found it to be quite good. We could come up with
> >> some different surveys to gather statistics about things we would like
> >> to know about the Plone community. Maybe we could offer a prize to one
> >> lucky survey responder, and get sponsors to give something away to
> >> encourage people to fill out the survey. For example, Packt Publishing
> >> could donate a Plone book.
> >
> > Is there a reason why we wouldn't try to use Plone Survey instead of some
> > crummy PHP app? ;-) UW Oshkosh has been using Plone Survey successfully for
> > some time now. Dog food, etc.
>
> I'm all for eating one's own dogfood if it is the best tool for the
> job. I haven't looked at PloneSurvey for awhile so I'm not sure how it
> stacks up to Surveymonkey.com. I don't really care which tool we use
> as long as we can get relevant data out of it for analysis purposes.

+1 on Surveymonkey. I think we need a shared hosted service that we can
all get access to. Not a Plone site that we have to manage ourselves.

I've also had this conversation with Roberto already and we came to the
same consensus.

Thanks,
Tim

>
> Nate

Nate Aune

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Oct 20, 2008, 10:15:20 PM10/20/08
to duf...@kokorice.org, evang...@lists.plone.org
Hi Tim,

> We've got a similar idea[1] for World Plone Day, i.e. fill out an online
> survey and win 1 of 8 books from PacktPub. Is there any way we could
> colloborate on producing the survey?

Why don't you start a wiki page in the Plone Marketing area on
openplans.org, with some questions that you think should be asked on
the survey. Then we can open it up for suggestions and try to put
together a list that will become the definitive WPD survey.

I agree with Jon that using SurveyMonkey is probably our best best
since it's a hosted service and so we don't have to worry about
maintaining it.

Nate

--

Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com
http://nateaune.com (personal blog)
http://jazkarta.com (open source technology solutions)
http://twitter.com/natea (daily updates)

PondCMS: Fully managed Plone-based CMS solution
http://jazkarta.com/products/pondcms

_______________________________________________

JoAnna Springsteen

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Oct 21, 2008, 12:03:03 AM10/21/08
to Nate Aune, Horak, Karl, ma...@netsight.co.uk, evang...@lists.plone.org, Jon Stahl
> Who would like to volunteer to make these calls to validate the
> numbers? At the marketing session at the sprint, we also discussed
> asking Plone vendors also if they would be willing to be the press
> contact for their particular country/region/language. So we could kill
> two birds with one stone when making these phone calls.

I could take this on. Lets just figure out exactly what info we need
and I can make the calls. Coming up with a script seems cheesy but
it'd be easier if we make sure we ask the same exact questions and can
record data accordingly.

JoAnna

Jon Stahl

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Oct 20, 2008, 10:09:49 PM10/20/08
to Nate Aune, Horak, Karl, ma...@netsight.co.uk, evang...@lists.plone.org
Nate Aune wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:57 PM, T. Kim Nguyen <ngu...@uwosh.edu> wrote:
> >
> > On Oct 20, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Nate Aune wrote:
> >
> >> Jon Stahl (cc'ed) has used Surveymonkey.com in the past to conduct
> >> surveys, mostly around the Plone conference 2006 in Seattle. I've also
> >> used this service and found it to be quite good. We could come up with
> >> some different surveys to gather statistics about things we would like
> >> to know about the Plone community. Maybe we could offer a prize to one
> >> lucky survey responder, and get sponsors to give something away to
> >> encourage people to fill out the survey. For example, Packt Publishing
> >> could donate a Plone book.
> >
> > Is there a reason why we wouldn't try to use Plone Survey instead of
> some
> > crummy PHP app? ;-) UW Oshkosh has been using Plone Survey
> successfully for
> > some time now. Dog food, etc.
>
> I'm all for eating one's own dogfood if it is the best tool for the
> job. I haven't looked at PloneSurvey for awhile so I'm not sure how it
> stacks up to Surveymonkey.com. I don't really care which tool we use
> as long as we can get relevant data out of it for analysis purposes.
>
SurveyMonkey isn't PHP (it's a service, not an open source app) and it's
a LOT more powerful and easy to use for a complex survey than PloneSurvey.

Whatever, use the tool that feels right. But I think you'll find SM a
lot faster and easier. For me, it would be a no-brainer.

:jon

Matt Hamilton

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Oct 21, 2008, 4:32:09 AM10/21/08
to JoAnna Springsteen, Horak, Karl, evang...@lists.plone.org, Jon Stahl

On 21 Oct 2008, at 05:03, JoAnna Springsteen wrote:

>> Who would like to volunteer to make these calls to validate the
>> numbers? At the marketing session at the sprint, we also discussed
>> asking Plone vendors also if they would be willing to be the press
>> contact for their particular country/region/language. So we could
>> kill
>> two birds with one stone when making these phone calls.
>
> I could take this on. Lets just figure out exactly what info we need
> and I can make the calls. Coming up with a script seems cheesy but
> it'd be easier if we make sure we ask the same exact questions and can
> record data accordingly.


[been out of office yesterday, will respond to other emails today on
this]

I was chatting to David Shaipro @Pilot at the conference about getting
further info from what is on plone.net and yes we thought phone calls
would be the best way to validate the info. There are ~200 companies
on plone.net. Would also be a good chance to plug the plone.net
sponsorship plan too. So maybe we wait until they are in place.
Between us 200 people would not be too much of an issue. David's
company have French and German covered, we can do English, and if we
can get someone to do Spanish then I think that would probabaly cover
the vast majority of the list.

Just at the end of the sprint we setup an openplans project to co-
ordinate this. It is a private group, mainly as we might be
discussing sensitive information on here.

http://www.openplans.org/projects/plonecensus

-Matt

--
Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk
Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver
http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901
Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting

Horak, Karl

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Oct 21, 2008, 2:55:22 PM10/21/08
to Nate Aune, Jon Stahl, ma...@netsight.co.uk, evang...@lists.plone.org
Its great to see so much activity on the evangelism list recently. Excellent ideas are popping up every day.

> Re: Plone statistics thread at http://groups.google.com/group/plone-users/browse_thread/thread/efbf35c618f02135/b0f733b1efd846e2?lnk=gst#b0f733b1efd846e2.

I'll take it as an action item to go back through the event archives at Plone.org and count the various sprints, symposia, conferences, users group meetings, etc. Once they're all pulled into one table, we can ask the Old Guard to estimate attendance figures. Jon has already said that Seattle and Naples ran at 350--I heard 310 at DC.

> Re: Could you post this spreadsheet to the openplans area that I've set up for identifying metrics
> and collecting/analyzing statistics?
> http://www.openplans.org/projects/plone-marketing/metrics-and-statistics.


> We might also want to make this available as a Google Spreadsheet so that others can contribute to it.

I've set it up as a Google Apps spreadsheet at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=py-ZRibpWMZUYA8zTyMUlag&hl=en. I'll upload an Open Docs version to OpenPlans tonight.

> Re: Would you be willing to be the team leader for the "Metrics and Statistics" marketing working group?

Sign me up (I think you already did :-))

> Re: Drupal indicators blog.

I saw a msg thread about a blog that pulled a number of graphs together for the Drupal community. I've done approximately the same for Plone at http://plonemetrics.blogspot.com/2008/10/plone-indicators.html. Take these with a grain of salt, since web stats can be deceiving.

Enjoy!

David Sapiro - Pilot Systems

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Oct 21, 2008, 8:57:36 PM10/21/08
to Matt Hamilton, Jérémie Cayla, Horak, Karl, Roberto Allende, Jon Stahl, evang...@lists.plone.org
Hi Matt,


Le 21 oct. 08 à 10:32, Matt Hamilton a écrit :

>
> On 21 Oct 2008, at 05:03, JoAnna Springsteen wrote:
>
>>> Who would like to volunteer to make these calls to validate the
>>> numbers? At the marketing session at the sprint, we also discussed
>>> asking Plone vendors also if they would be willing to be the press
>>> contact for their particular country/region/language. So we could
>>> kill
>>> two birds with one stone when making these phone calls.
>>
>> I could take this on. Lets just figure out exactly what info we need
>> and I can make the calls. Coming up with a script seems cheesy but
>> it'd be easier if we make sure we ask the same exact questions and
>> can
>> record data accordingly.
>
>
> [been out of office yesterday, will respond to other emails today
> on this]
>
> I was chatting to David Shaipro @Pilot at the conference about
> getting further info from what is on plone.net and yes we thought
> phone calls would be the best way to validate the info. There are
> ~200 companies on plone.net. Would also be a good chance to plug
> the plone.net sponsorship plan too. So maybe we wait until they
> are in place. Between us 200 people would not be too much of an
> issue. David's company have French and German covered, we can do
> English, and if we can get someone to do Spanish then I think that
> would probabaly cover the vast majority of the list.

I confirm Jérémie will do the job for French and German-speaking
companies. Jérémie, let's talk about this buthe end of week.

For Spanish, I cc Roberto :) Any time for that Roberto?


>
> Just at the end of the sprint we setup an openplans project to co-
> ordinate this. It is a private group, mainly as we might be
> discussing sensitive information on here.
>
> http://www.openplans.org/projects/plonecensus

This is a place to work between us, and yes, the results will be sent
to the PF in order to have sponsorship information, then a report
will be published on either Jon's blog or an Open Plans page, don't
worry :)

Dave

>
> -Matt
>
> --
> Matt Hamilton
> ma...@netsight.co.uk
> Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop.
> Deliver
> http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117
> 9090901
> Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location |
> Hosting
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Evangelism mailing list
> Evang...@lists.plone.org
> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism


--
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Pilot Systems - 9, rue Desargues - 75011 Paris
Tel : +33 1 44 53 05 55 - http://www.pilotsystems.net
Hébergement Zope et Plone gratuit - http://www.objectis.org

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