RSX-11: Bizarre KEDIT Issues

[Eric N]

I've had a perfectly working RSX-11M system running for the last year, including the ability to edit files with KEDIT.  I use PuTTY on Linux and Terminal on Mac in VT100 emulation and I've re-mapped appropriate keys for saving files.  Zero issues.  And then today...

Every text file I try to open with KEDIT opens but then I get garbage on the screen like the ctrl characters aren't mapping properly (e.g. the screen won't clear like when you normally launch KEDIT).  It happens regardless of which terminal client I use to "screen" into PiDP with.  I've restored to older images that I know worked previously and the problem is still there.  KEX with my RT11 image is still working normally and it uses the same mappings.

My boot.ini file is unchanged and here are the terminal settings from RSX-11.  I'm at a loss as to what I might have done.  Does anyone have any ideas?

$ show term
TT0:    [USER]      [200,1]   30-DEC-2018 09:30   1     A. USER
        CLI   = DCL     BUF   = 80.     HFILL = 0
        LINES = 24.     TERM  = VT100   OWNER = none
        NOPRINTER_PORT  NOPASTHRU       NOSERIAL
        LOWER   NOPRIV  NOHOLD  NOSLAVE NOESC   CRT     NOFORM  NOREMOTE
        ECHO    NOVFILL HHT     NOFDX   WRAP    NORPA   NOEBC   TYPEAHEAD
        NOCTRLC AVO     ANSI    DEC     NOEDIT  NOREGIS NOSOFT  NOBLKMOD
        NOHSYNC BRO     NOABAUD TTSYNC

Eric N.

[Johnny Billquist]

KEDIT? Is that some editor in RSX I don't know about, or did you mistype
something?

Anyway, I can't see that you have anything wrong based on just the
settings inside RSX. Could you paste what the screen actually looks like
when you start the editor?

Also, it whatever terminal program you use have a function to log all
the output to a file, that would also be helpful to see what ends up in
there.

But I only use xterm myself, so I don't know if other programs have it,
or how you would invoke it.

Johnny

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Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[Eric N]

I'll add that EMACS works fine and I have full WYSIWYG editing with this program.  It's just KEDIT that seems to have gone wonky.

[Mark Matlock]

All,

  I forgot to send this reply also to the list and thought others may be

interested in this RSX-11 KED problem.

Mark

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mark Matlock <Ma...@MatlockFamily.com>

Subject: Re: [PiDP-11] RSX-11: Bizarre KEDIT Issues

Date: January 8, 2022 at 6:57:34 PM CST

To: Eric N <eric...@gmail.com>

Eric,
   The is a very subtle difference between RT-11 KED and RSX11M KED.
When RT-11 KED sends an <Escape> sequence to your terminal it ALWAYS
sends Octal 033. In RSX11M KED sometimes sends <Escape> as a
233 octal (high bit set) instead of a octal 033. This will cause the problem
you describe.

   All DEC terminals will accept the 233 as an escape but many terminal emulators
don’t see it as an <Escape> character. I am a huge fan of KED and struggled finding
a terminal emulator that worked with RSX KED for me. Finally I was able to
diagnose the cause of this issue with a HP 4957A serial communications analyzer.

  My solution was to use the ZOC terminal emulator and in its settings for RSX sessions
have the high bit stripped from incoming data.

  I’m not sure how things worked for you at one time and then quit working
but here are some possibilities. In simh there is a command:

sim>set tto 8b

that might have an effect. Also in RSX:

SET /CHAR_LENGTH=TI:7 or 8

may have an effect on this issue. Also, thanks to Lee Gleason for recommending
the HP 4957A.

Good Luck,
Mark

On Jan 8, 2022, at 5:57 PM, Eric N <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've had a perfectly working RSX-11M system running for the last year, including the ability to edit files with KEDIT.  I use PuTTY on Linux and Terminal on Mac in VT100 emulation and I've re-mapped appropriate keys for saving files.  Zero issues.  And then today...

Every text file I try to open with KEDIT opens but then I get garbage on the screen like the ctrl characters aren't mapping properly (e.g. the screen won't clear like when you normally launch KEDIT).  It happens regardless of which terminal client I use to "screen" into PiDP with.  I've restored to older images that I know worked previously and the problem is still there.  KEX with my RT11 image is still working normally and it uses the same mappings.

My boot.ini file is unchanged and here are the terminal settings from RSX-11.  I'm at a loss as to what I might have done.  Does anyone have any ideas?

$ show term
TT0:    [USER]      [200,1]   30-DEC-2018 09:30   1     A. USER
       CLI   = DCL     BUF   = 80.     HFILL = 0
       LINES = 24.     TERM  = VT100   OWNER = none
       NOPRINTER_PORT  NOPASTHRU       NOSERIAL
       LOWER   NOPRIV  NOHOLD  NOSLAVE NOESC   CRT     NOFORM  NOREMOTE
       ECHO    NOVFILL HHT     NOFDX   WRAP    NORPA   NOEBC   TYPEAHEAD
       NOCTRLC AVO     ANSI    DEC     NOEDIT  NOREGIS NOSOFT  NOBLKMOD
       NOHSYNC BRO     NOABAUD TTSYNC


Eric N.

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[Johnny Billquist]

Note.
0233 might, or might not be accepted as an escape characted by DEC
terminals. It is ESC with the high bit set. If you are running in 7-bit
with any kind of parity, it is an ESC. If you are running with 8 bits,
it's not. If 8-bit control characters are enabled, 0233 is actually CSI,
which most DEC terminals understand. But that is not the same as ESC.
But it can mess things up if you have something that do not understand
8-bit control characters.
This is what the /EBC attribute on the terminal in RSX is for.
But it was turned off for Eric, so I don't think that is the case here,
but some more information would help...

Johnny

On 2022-01-09 05:37, Mark Matlock wrote:
> All,
>   I forgot to send this reply also to the list and thought others may be
> interested in this RSX-11 KED problem.
>
> Mark
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>

>> *From: *Mark Matlock <Ma...@MatlockFamily.com
>> <mailto:Ma...@MatlockFamily.com>>
>> *Subject: **Re: [PiDP-11] RSX-11: Bizarre KEDIT Issues*
>> *Date: *January 8, 2022 at 6:57:34 PM CST
>> *To: *Eric N <eric...@gmail.com <mailto:eric...@gmail.com>>

>>> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.

>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/3f108e1e-0969-49a3-8ff7-78a287c9e2a5n%40googlegroups.com

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/3f108e1e-0969-49a3-8ff7-78a287c9e2a5n%40googlegroups.com>.

>>
>
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[Eric N]

Thanks y'all.  It looks like it had something to do with the escape sequences.  My boot.ini originally had "8b" for the simh set tti and tto commands.  I changed the settings to 7b and that fixed the problem:

set tti 7b
set tto 7b

And it turns out my RT11 system had 7b in the boot.ini settings which is why the KEX editor still worked for it.  I still have no idea why it just started out of the blue.  I rebooted the Pi recently so that may have been a contributing factor.

To answer Johnny's question above on the editor in RSX, it is the KED editor which also launches if you type KEDIT.  This editor works just like the KEX editor in RT11.  There is another thread in the group on the key mappings required to use the editor if you don't have a numeric keypad if anyone is interested.  You can't exit the KEX and KED editors without two of the commands:

https://groups.google.com/g/pidp-11/c/-PCYlgknmzo/m/x9yHl4zbBgAJ

Eric N.