MONK BRETTON, Rt Hon 3rd Baron 1924-2022

[Richard R]

From the Times of 30 May 2022: Lord Monk Bretton Died on 26 May 2022, much loved husband, father and grandfather. Memorial to be held in the Autumn.

He was s of 2nd Baron MONK BRETTON 1869-1933 and Ruth 1882-1967 d of Maj Hon Charles BRAND 1855-1912 (s of 1st Viscount HAMPDEN 1814-92) and Alice Emma Sturgis VAN DE WEYER 1854-1926 scion of that gentry family f/o New Lodge. He m 1958 Zoe Diana Mary Alicia b 1938 reg Q2 London d of Ian Douglas Murray SCOTT by his 1934 m reg Q4 London to Marjorie MEAD, and had two sons. The elder son succeeds him:

CHRISTOPHER MARK Dodson 4h Baron MONK BRETTON has yet to establish claim b 2 Aug 1958 m 1988 Karen L d of B J KCKELVAIN of Fairfield, Conn, USA, and had two sons and a dau:

SONS LIVING
Hon BEN b 14 Jan 1989 Los Angeles (Times 17 Jan)
Hon James Mark b 8 Mar 1994 (Times 9 March)

DAUGHTER LIVING
Hon Emma, b 1990.

BROTHER LIVING
Hon Henry b 1960

[Richard R]

The death announcement is in the TELEGRAPH of 30 May, NOT the Times

[Richard R]

Not doing well on this one! It's in the 31 May 2022 Telegraph, NOT 30 May!

[Ind_Duke]

The 3rd Baron Monk Bretton holds the record of having held the peerage for the longest time - (almost 88 years and 11 months). He was also the third eldest hereditary peer after Lord Saye & Sele and Earl Elgin. After his death, the present longest holder of a peerage is the 17th Viscount Gormanston who was born in 1939 and succeeded to the title in 1940 when he was just 7 months old as the result of his father's death in Dunkirk during the Second World War. 

[Ind_Duke]

He was also the last surviving peer or baronet to have succeeded to the title in the 1930s and also the last to have succeeded to the title before the onset of the Second World War. It is truly the end of an era at least in peerage circles. He might also have been one of the last surviving people who participated in the Coronation of King George VI. 
See https://groups.google.com/g/peerage-news/c/hgNmSba3NOc

[https:/www.maltagenealogy.com/LeighRayment/]

An addition to the ancestry of the 4th Baron Monk Bretton (see attachment). Mary Cardew was a maternal granddaughter of Richard Bethell 1st Baron Westbury.

ps: Alicia Lucy Murray was a granddaughter of Vice-Admiral Sir George Murray (1759-1819).

[BREMENMURRAY]

The last peer from the reigns of George V and Edward VIII.Although a peer in four reigns is not that unusual when you consider that any peer of 36 years standing in December 1936 had achieved five reigns 

[dpth...@gmail.com]

...and likely there were several who held their titles from before 6 February 1685 until after 11 June 1727, making six reigns, even if one counts William and Mary as only one.

[Ind_Duke]

I think the number of peers who had held their titles for 36 years as of December 1936 would have been much more numerous than the list of peers who held their titles from 6 February 1685 until after 11 June 1727 because of the following reasons:

1) in 1936, the British Empire was at its peak and there were many peerages created over the 19th and 20th centuries which would have have far outnumbered the total number of peerages in existence from 1685 - 1727. 

2) The lifespan of the peers in 1936 would have been much longer than the lifespan of peers in the period of 1685 - 1727.

[Ind_Duke]

Lord Monk Bretton's death also means that presently all the peers and baronets have held their titles only over the course of 2 different reigns ( George VI and Elizabeth II). The total reign of these 2 monarchs is around 86 years. When Queen Victoria's reign ended in January 1901, the total period of her reign and her predecessor William IV's reign was only around 70 years. On Victoria's death in January 1901, all the living peers had only held their titles over 2 reigns ( William IV & Victoria) but there were at least 2 baronets who had succeeded to their titles during the reign of King George IV. (James Campbell, 5th baronet who had succeeded on 13 Dec 1824 and died only on 27 Mar 1903 and  Warwick Charles Morshead, 3rd baronet  who had succeeded on  8 Jul 1828  and died on 17 Mar 1905). So, I think this present instance when all the living peers and baronets have held their titles only over the course of 2 different reigns is only the second occurrence in British history. The first occurrence was during the end of King George III's reign when a combined duration of  92 years  (total of reigns of George III and his predecessor George II was 92 years) meant that all the peers and baronets had held their titles only over the course of 2 different reigns.

[www.lordmountbattenofburma.com]

sad to hear that news... met him a few times at the South of England Show at Ardingly, W Sussex... he was always very kind and loved the countryside, farming, horses etc.... always wore a lovely hat to doff !  

[BREMENMURRAY]

Can anyone on this website identify any peer who did in fact hold his/her peerage from the reign of Charles II to George II

[dpth...@gmail.com]

It's hard to search through all the peers of that time, but just off the top here are two "almost":

1. Thomas Bruce, 2nd Earl of Ailesbury an 3rd Earl of Elgin, held those titles 20 Oct 1685-16 Dec 1741; so, just after James II took the throne into George II, for 5 reigns (if WIlliam and Mary count as only one).

2. Hugh Cholmmondeley, 1st Earl of Cholmondely (1706) was 2nd Viscount Cholmondeley from 22 May 1681 until 18 January 1725; so, also five reigns, just barely going before George II became king.

I'll keep looking as and when I have time.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Here is one: Thomas Herbert was 8th Earl of Pembroke and Montgomery from 29 August 1683 until 22 January 1733.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:16:05 PM UTC-5 BREMEN...@YAHOO.CO.UK wrote:

[dpth...@gmail.com]

another: James Graham, cr 1707 Duke of Montrose, was 4th Marquess of Montrose from 25 April 1684 until 7 January 1742.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:16:05 PM UTC-5 BREMEN...@YAHOO.CO.UK wrote:

[dpth...@gmail.com]

another: Charles Mordaunt, Earl of Monmouth 1689, and 3rd Earl of Peterborough since 1697, was 2nd Viscount Mordaunt from 5 June 1675 until 25 October 1735.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:16:05 PM UTC-5 BREMEN...@YAHOO.CO.UK wrote:

[dpth...@gmail.com]

more:

John Poulett was 4th Lord Poulett from 1679 until 28 May 1743.

Charles Seymour was 6th Duke of Somerset from 20 April 1678 until 2 December 1748.


I'm going to stop looking for now, but I think that's quite enough to show that there were several.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:16:05 PM UTC-5 BREMEN...@YAHOO.CO.UK wrote:

[dpth...@gmail.com]

I couldn't stop :)  Here are three more:

Hugh Clifford was 2nd Lord Clifford of Chudleigh from 17 October 1673 until 12 October 1730.

Thomas Tufton was 6th Earl of Thanet and 18th Lord de Clifford from 8 March 1684 until 30 July 1729.

John Fleming was 6th Earl of Wigtown from 8 April 1681 until 10 February 1744.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:16:05 PM UTC-5 BREMEN...@YAHOO.CO.UK wrote:

[dpth...@gmail.com]

one more:

William Ross was 12th Lord Ross of Halkhead from April 1682 until 15 March 1738.


and some maybes:

Charles Knollys was titular 4th Earl of Banbury from 14 March 1674 until 26 August 1740. No one had sat in Parliament for the title since 1660, but his claim to the title was never officially denied.

Donogh MacCarty succeeded as 4th Earl of Clancarty on 21 November 1676; he was attainted in 1691, but it is said that he might have been restored to his honours in 1721. He died 1 October 1734.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:16:05 PM UTC-5 BREMEN...@YAHOO.CO.UK wrote:

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Sorry for the separate posts. I have now compiled all my answers and list the following peers who were peers from the reign of Charles II into the reign of George II:


1. Thomas Herbert was 8th Earl of Pembroke and Montgomery from 29 August 1683 until 22 January 1733.

2. James Graham, cr 1707 Duke of Montrose, was 4th Marquess of Montrose from 25 April 1684 until 7 January 1742.

3. Charles Mordaunt, Earl of Monmouth 1689, and 3rd Earl of Peterborough since 1697, was 2nd Viscount Mordaunt from 5 June 1675 until 25 October 1735.

4. John Poulett was 4th Lord Poulett from 1679 until 28 May 1743.

5. Charles Seymour was 6th Duke of Somerset from 20 April 1678 until 2 December 1748.

6. Hugh Clifford was 2nd Lord Clifford of Chudleigh from 17 October 1673 until 12 October 1730.

7. Thomas Tufton was 6th Earl of Thanet and 18th Lord de Clifford from 8 March 1684 until 30 July 1729.

8. John Fleming was 6th Earl of Wigtown from 8 April 1681 until 10 February 1744.

9. William Ross was 12th Lord Ross of Halkhead from April 1682 until 15 March 1738.

There are probably more, but I have exhausted the easy ways of looking for them. :)


and some maybes:

Charles Knollys was titular 4th Earl of Banbury from 14 March 1674 until 26 August 1740. No one had sat in Parliament since 1660, but his claim to the title was never officially denied.

Donogh MacCarty succeeded as 4th Earl of Clancarty on 21 November 1676; he was attainted in 1691, but it is said that he might have been restored to his honours in 1721. He died 1 October 1734.

and a couple "almosts":

1. Thomas Bruce, 2nd Earl of Ailesbury an 3rd Earl of Elgin, held those titles 20 Oct 1685-16 Dec 1741; so, just after James II took the throne into George II, for 5 reigns (if William and Mary count as only one).

2. Hugh Cholmondeley, 1st Earl of Cholmondeley (1706) was 2nd Viscount Cholmondeley from 22 May 1681 until 18 January 1725; so, also five reigns, just barely going before George II became king.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:16:05 PM UTC-5 BREMEN...@YAHOO.CO.UK wrote:

[BREMENMURRAY]

Interesting that the present day holders of the Ailesbury/Elgin titles are in the top five oldest living peers 

[colinp]

Obit in Telegraph -  Lord Monk Bretton, hereditary peer and dairy farmer who stood for election to the reformed House of Lords – obituary (telegraph.co.uk)

EXTRACTS:

Lord Monk Bretton, hereditary peer and dairy farmer who stood for election to the reformed House of Lords – obituary

He was unsuccessful in his bid and warned that the House of Lords reforms were 'a Pandora’s box that may prove problematical for the future'

The 3rd Lord Monk Bretton, who has died aged 97, was the sort of Tory peer whose departure from the House of Lords in 1999 robbed the upper house of much of its rural colour and connections.

He succeeded to the peerage on the death of his father in 1933 when he was just nine years old, took his place on the Conservative benches of the House of Lords in January 1948 and made his maiden speech that March in a debate about the slaughter of animals, when he argued for the humane killing of domestic animals used for food....

In 1999, after 51 years as a member of the Upper House he was among the 208 hopefuls who put themselves for election by their peers to be among 75 hereditaries who would remain in a reformed House of Lords.

Lord Monk Bretton pledged that: “If selected, I am now able to shed outside commitments and increase both output and attendance. I see it as a duty that one should offer to serve.”

He was not surprised when he came in 95th, but warned that the Blair government’s reforms to the House of Lords were “a Pandora’s box that may prove problematical for the future”......

John Charles Dodson was born on July 17 1924, the only son of John William Dodson, 2nd Baron Monk Bretton, a diplomat, and Ruth, née Brand.

The Monk Bretton peerage had been created in 1884 for his grandfather, John George Dodson (1825-97) a Liberal MP for East Sussex and friend of Gladstone, under whom he served as Financial Secretary to the Treasury, President of the Local Government Board and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.

After succeeding to the title on his father’s death, Lord Monk Bretton was educated at Westminster and read Agriculture at New College, Oxford....

In 1958 he married Zoe Scott, and 10 years later they moved into “Shelley’s Folly”, an eight-bedroom Grade I listed Queen Anne house which his great-grandfather, Sir John Dodson, a judge, had acquired near Barcombe, East Sussex from the family of the poet Percy Bysshe Shelley.

The house, built in 1686-87 by Theobald Shelley, had acquired two Victorian wings, becoming something of a hotchpotch. Until the Monk Brettons took up residence in 1968 it had mostly been let out – most famously in 1915 to the Marchioness of Queensberry and her son Lord Alfred Douglas, who had scandalised polite society as “Bosie”, the lover of Oscar Wilde.

Before moving in, the Monk Brettons remodelled the house in character with its original appearance, appointing the architect Raymond Erith, a classicist best known for restoring and enlarging 10 Downing Street, to carry out the work....

A longtime member of the Country Landowners’ Association and the National Farmers’ Union, Lord Monk Bretton was appointed a Deputy Lieutenant for East Sussex in 1983 and was a stalwart of the South of England Agricultural Society show from its foundation in 1967.

In 2004 he and his wife sold Shelley’s Folly and moved to live in Switzerland on the shores of Lake Geneva.

They had two sons, of whom the elder, Christopher Mark Dodson, born in 1958, succeeds as the 4th Baron Monk Bretton.

Lord Monk Bretton, born July 7 1924, died May 26 2022

[BREMENMURRAY]

The Duchess of Portsmouth and the Duchess of Buccleuch both in their own right held their titles from the reign of Charles II to the reign of George II

[colinp]

The late Lord Monk Bretton was a peer for 88 years and 301 days. For Viscount Gormanston to overtake him he would have to live until 7 April 2029 at which point he would be aged 89 years and 139 days.

[colinp]

DPB online states the full forenames of the ha are Benjamin Charles 

[colinp]

From the House of Lords MInutes of Proceedings 16 November 2022:

Barony of Monk Bretton in the Peerage of the United Kingdom The Lord Chancellor reported that Christopher Mark Dodson had established his claim to the Barony of Monk Bretton in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. The Clerk of the Parliaments was accordingly directed to enter Lord Monk Bretton on the register of hereditary peers maintained under Standing Order 9(4).