new workgroup for Beall's List 2.0 / open resource development?

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Glenn Hampson

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Jan 23, 2017, 3:40:03 PM1/23/17
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Hi Folks,

 

As you recall, there was some chatter is the scholcomm universe last week about the demise of Beall’s list. And as you all know by now, it’s gone, and Cabell’s may try to create something similar. A few months ago I corresponded with Jeffrey Beall about the possibility of making his list public---about having OSI help create a Beall’s List 2.0 with transparent methodology, and where librarians and other interested volunteers could contribute to its upkeep (maybe through a Yelp type of structure). Now that his list is no more, this approach is moot and we may want to consider starting from scratch to figure out what to the what/why/how of such an undertaking, learning from and building on Jeffrey’s work, and taking into account what we’ve discussed on this list about micro and low-cost publishers.

 

I’m not sure if this project would fit under a current workgroup (like standards or rogue solutions)---if it does, great, but if it doesn’t and if there’s enough interest we can stand this up as a new project. In fact---and I’m stealing Eric Olson’s thunder here (sorry Eric)---there may be other related projects that become apparent between now and the conference. Eric suggested today that it would help to post an index on our website of open-related definitions. And last year, Dee started work on a reference list that might also be helpful for this community. So maybe all of these projects fall under the category of “open resources development” or some such, which could grow to include open publishing resources, open access resources, open ed resources, scicomm resources, fraud lists, and more.

 

How about this?: Let me know if you’d be interested in serving on a workgroup like this as your first choice (and if you’ve already submitted your workgroup choices, I’ll just bump your other choices down one notch). If there’s enough interest in this, we can add this workgroup to OSI2017. If not, maybe the standards team (for now, Adrian H., Dee M., Bryan A., Susan F., David M., Cathy W., Emma W., and Abel P.) can talk over whether this is a good fit for their team. And as a last resort, we can talk about including this workgroup in OSI2018. The Cabell’s effort will take time to unfold---it may be best to wait and see how they approach this before investing time and effort into a duplicate resource. On the other hand, there is some merit to starting from scratch on this---in putting this enterprise on broad, strong footing by ensuring that everyone knows what goes into this process and can make a clear connection between this process and the judgments that are rendered from it (and I’m not sure if this is what Cabell’s has in mind when/if they do go forward).

 

Thoughts?

 

Glenn

 

Glenn Hampson

Executive Director

National Science Communication Institute (nSCI)

Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

osi-logo-2016-25-mail

 

2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133

(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org

 

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Anthony Watkinson

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Jan 23, 2017, 4:41:01 PM1/23/17
to Glenn Hampson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

May I suggest that whatever we do we take into account and bring in to our discussions Lars Bjornhauge of DOAJ who has worked hard to provide an excellent white list. Beall produced a black list

 

Anthony

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Glenn Hampson

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Jan 23, 2017, 4:51:47 PM1/23/17
to Anthony Watkinson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

Great suggestion---thanks Anthony. And Lars is coming to OSI2017. I’ll forward your note to him and see if he wants to weigh in on this.

 

Glenn Hampson

Executive Director

National Science Communication Institute (nSCI)

Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

osi-logo-2016-25-mail

 

2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133

(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org

 

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Lars Bjørnshauge

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Jan 23, 2017, 5:03:44 PM1/23/17
to Anthony Watkinson, Glenn Hampson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com
Thanks Anthony!

Yes, here comes the disclaimer:

I am the Managing Director for DOAJ (www.doaj.org), and I will be in Washington to the meeting in April.

With our 8 paid staff and 15 DOAJ Ambassadors on the ground in China, India, Middle East, Africa and Latin America and dozens of volunteers donating some hours a week enables us to do very detailed evaluation of the more than 300 new applications we handle every month.

We wish we could process the evaluations faster and do an even better curation of the more than 9.000 journal in the DOAJ, But this all depends on the funding from the community. Luckily hundreds of university libraries, more than a dozen library consortia supports us, and virtually all the important publishers and aggregators sponsor the work we do - there are empty seats in the bus: https://doaj.org/membership

I will be happy to fill you in one way or another, when we meet in Washington in 3 months time.

Best wishes

Lars



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Mike Taylor

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Jan 23, 2017, 5:09:38 PM1/23/17
to Lars Bjørnshauge, Anthony Watkinson, Glenn Hampson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com
Maybe a better plan would be this: take the disappearance of Beall's list as an opportunity to focus from being blacklist-focussed to instead prioritising the whitelisting approach of DOAJ. I don't see that Beall's List needs replacing.

-- Mike.

Rick Anderson

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Jan 23, 2017, 5:33:47 PM1/23/17
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, for what it’s worth: blacklisting and whitelisting aren’t mutually exclusive, and we don’t have to choose between them. Each kind of list serves a different purposes, both important. I hope we (or someone) will take this opportunity to do a blacklist the right way: with transparency, accountability, consistency, and fairness.

 

---

Rick Anderson

Assoc. Dean for Collections & Scholarly Communication

Marriott Library, University of Utah

rick.a...@utah.edu

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Lars Bjørnshauge

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DOAJ

 

 

 

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Glenn Hampson

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Jan 23, 2017, 5:42:56 PM1/23/17
to Mike Taylor, Lars Bjørnshauge, Anthony Watkinson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

Interesting---thanks Mike, Lars. Well Mike, reading the email from Lars about how much work is involved, it may be completely impractical to think about creating a new blacklist anyway! Mike---how do you see a new whitelist differing from resources like SHERPA/RoMEO or Web of Science?

 

Glenn Hampson

Executive Director

National Science Communication Institute (nSCI)

Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

osi-logo-2016-25-mail

 

2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133

(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org

 

From: Mike Taylor [mailto:mi...@indexdata.com]

Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 2:09 PM
To: Lars Bjørnshauge

Cc: Anthony Watkinson; Glenn Hampson; osi2016-25-googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: new workgroup for Beall's List 2.0 / open resource development?

 

Maybe a better plan would be this: take the disappearance of Beall's list as an opportunity to focus from being blacklist-focussed to instead prioritising the whitelisting approach of DOAJ. I don't see that Beall's List needs replacing.

 

-- Mike.

 

On 23 January 2017 at 22:03, Lars Bjørnshauge <la...@doaj.org> wrote:

Thanks Anthony!

 

Yes, here comes the disclaimer:

 

I am the Managing Director for DOAJ (www.doaj.org), and I will be in Washington to the meeting in April.

 

With our 8 paid staff and 15 DOAJ Ambassadors on the ground in China, India, Middle East, Africa and Latin America and dozens of volunteers donating some hours a week enables us to do very detailed evaluation of the more than 300 new applications we handle every month.

 

We wish we could process the evaluations faster and do an even better curation of the more than 9.000 journal in the DOAJ, But this all depends on the funding from the community. Luckily hundreds of university libraries, more than a dozen library consortia supports us, and virtually all the important publishers and aggregators sponsor the work we do - there are empty seats in the bus: https://doaj.org/membership

 

I will be happy to fill you in one way or another, when we meet in Washington in 3 months time.

 

Best wishes

 

Lars

 

 

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 10:40 PM, Anthony Watkinson <anthony....@btinternet.com> wrote:

May I suggest that whatever we do we take into account and bring in to our discussions Lars Bjornhauge of DOAJ who has worked hard to provide an excellent white list. Beall produced a black list

 

Anthony

 

From: osi20...@googlegroups.com [mailto:osi20...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Hampson
Sent: 23 January 2017 20:40
To: 'osi2016-25-googlegroups.com'
Subject: new workgroup for Beall's List 2.0 / open resource development?

 

Hi Folks,

 

As you recall, there was some chatter is the scholcomm universe last week about the demise of Beall’s list. And as you all know by now, it’s gone, and Cabell’s may try to create something similar. A few months ago I corresponded with Jeffrey Beall about the possibility of making his list public---about having OSI help create a Beall’s List 2.0 with transparent methodology, and where librarians and other interested volunteers could contribute to its upkeep (maybe through a Yelp type of structure). Now that his list is no more, this approach is moot and we may want to consider starting from scratch to figure out what to the what/why/how of such an undertaking, learning from and building on Jeffrey’s work, and taking into account what we’ve discussed on this list about micro and low-cost publishers.

 

I’m not sure if this project would fit under a current workgroup (like standards or rogue solutions)---if it does, great, but if it doesn’t and if there’s enough interest we can stand this up as a new project. In fact---and I’m stealing Eric Olson’s thunder here (sorry Eric)---there may be other related projects that become apparent between now and the conference. Eric suggested today that it would help to post an index on our website of open-related definitions. And last year, Dee started work on a reference list that might also be helpful for this community. So maybe all of these projects fall under the category of “open resources development” or some such, which could grow to include open publishing resources, open access resources, open ed resources, scicomm resources, fraud lists, and more.

 

How about this?: Let me know if you’d be interested in serving on a workgroup like this as your first choice (and if you’ve already submitted your workgroup choices, I’ll just bump your other choices down one notch). If there’s enough interest in this, we can add this workgroup to OSI2017. If not, maybe the standards team (for now, Adrian H., Dee M., Bryan A., Susan F., David M., Cathy W., Emma W., and Abel P.) can talk over whether this is a good fit for their team. And as a last resort, we can talk about including this workgroup in OSI2018. The Cabell’s effort will take time to unfold---it may be best to wait and see how they approach this before investing time and effort into a duplicate resource. On the other hand, there is some merit to starting from scratch on this---in putting this enterprise on broad, strong footing by ensuring that everyone knows what goes into this process and can make a clear connection between this process and the judgments that are rendered from it (and I’m not sure if this is what Cabell’s has in mind when/if they do go forward).

 

Thoughts?

 

Glenn

 

Glenn Hampson

Executive Director

National Science Communication Institute (nSCI)

Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

osi-logo-2016-25-mail

 

2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133

(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org

 

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Lars Bjørnshauge

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DOAJ

 

 

 

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Mike Taylor

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Jan 23, 2017, 5:55:09 PM1/23/17
to Glenn Hampson, Lars Bjørnshauge, Anthony Watkinson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com
It is certainly true that blacklisting and whitelisting are not mutually exclusive. Of course we can do both -- and until a week ago, we did.

But there are plenty of people who feel that blacklisting is an inherently negative approach, and one that is bound to attract hostility -- such as the legal aggression that we assume was behind the takedown of Beall's List. Why would we not expect the same outcome for a new list? And why even try to play the blacklisting whack-a-mole game?

-- Mike.





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Lars Bjørnshauge

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DOAJ

 

 

 

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Barrett, Kim

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Jan 23, 2017, 5:57:07 PM1/23/17
to Rick Anderson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

As always, happy to agree with Rick.  I see too many students and even junior faculty who are confused/flattered/taken advantage of by emails from predatory OA journals.

 

Kim E. Barrett, Ph.D.

Distinguished Professor of Medicine, UC San Diego

Editor-in-Chief, The Journal of Physiology

Ph: 858 534 2796

Mike Taylor

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Jan 23, 2017, 5:59:03 PM1/23/17
to Barrett, Kim, Rick Anderson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com
If only those students were educated!

Here, for anyone who has not seen it, is a very short tutorial for avoid predatory publishers:

-- Mike.


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Lars Bjørnshauge

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DOAJ

 

 

 

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Rick Anderson

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Jan 23, 2017, 6:02:27 PM1/23/17
to Mike Taylor, Glenn Hampson, Lars Bjørnshauge, Anthony Watkinson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

I don’t want to try everyone’s patience with repetition, so I’ll just link to the answers to those questions that I’ve offered before:

 

https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2015/08/17/deceptive-publishing-why-we-need-a-blacklist-and-some-suggestions-on-how-to-do-it-right/

 

 

---

Rick Anderson

Assoc. Dean for Collections & Scholarly Communication

Marriott Library, University of Utah

rick.a...@utah.edu

 

From: <osi20...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mike Taylor <mi...@indexdata.com>
Date: Monday, January 23, 2017 at 3:54 PM
To: Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>
Cc: Lars Bjørnshauge <la...@doaj.org>, Anthony Watkinson <anthony....@btinternet.com>, "osi2016-25-googlegroups.com" <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: new workgroup for Beall's List 2.0 / open resource development?

 

It is certainly true that blacklisting and whitelisting are not mutually exclusive. Of course we can do both -- and until a week ago, we did.

 

But there are plenty of people who feel that blacklisting is an inherently negative approach, and one that is bound to attract hostility -- such as the legal aggression that we assume was behind the takedown of Beall's List. Why would we not expect the same outcome for a new list? And why even try to play the blacklisting whack-a-mole game?

 

-- Mike.

 

 

 

 

On 23 January 2017 at 22:42, Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org> wrote:

Interesting---thanks Mike, Lars. Well Mike, reading the email from Lars about how much work is involved, it may be completely impractical to think about creating a new blacklist anyway! Mike---how do you see a new whitelist differing from resources like SHERPA/RoMEO or Web of Science?

 

Glenn Hampson

Executive Director

National Science Communication Institute (nSCI)

Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

si-logo-2016-25-mail

si-logo-2016-25-mail

 

2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133

(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org

 

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Lars Bjørnshauge

Managing Director

DOAJ

 

 

 

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Margaret Winker Cook

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Jan 23, 2017, 6:04:05 PM1/23/17
to Glenn Hampson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

Hi Glenn and all,


This is a very important project and your proposal sounds like a useful approach (assuming you have good liability insurance, although transparent, objective criteria, with a defined process for appeal, should help address any challenges). I would be interested in serving on the workgroup, which dovetailscwith the underserved populations workgroup I'm already a part of (explained below). I've been working on predatory journals definitions and I was part of the group that developed the Transparency Principles (COPE, DOAJ, and OASPA as well as WAME;  http://www.wame.org/about/principles-of-transparency-and-best-practice ) that were intended to help expose predatory journals by setting out positive attributes that journals could adhere to, to avoid being wrongly characterized as predatory. It is very important to come up with an objective definition but also very difficult; many of Beall's criteria were subjective. As objective criteria are listed, predatory journals may change their websites to meet the letter of the definition of a legitimate journal but not the spirit. 


The most transparent approaches are also require considerable effort: journals could post the initial submitted manuscript, correspondence, and peer reviews (ideally with reviewer identities) along with the final published manuscript for anyone to view (with the inherent issues--and benefits--regarding open peer review); a certifying organization could require documentation of reviews and correspondence for randomly selected articles, or could ask authors to provide what they received from the journal. DOAJ certainly has more experience than anyone with the laborious process of differentiating good from bad. However, some journals in LMICs have a difficult time meeting DOAJ's requirements because of lack of resources, and they are less likely to appear in major indexes. Developing other criteria would be important for such journals. (Who cares about such journals, the skeptic asks? Such journals are important for LMICs because --among other reasons--they are in a position to publish regional and local approaches to care, to translate information for local clinicians, to improve the quality of country's research and evidence-based medicine, and to help develop a research community through editors, editorial boards, and peer reviewers.)

 

Another important issue that has come to light recently is that some authors, even some who are relatively senior, may be aware that the journal they're submitting to is not truly peer reviewed (see http://retractionwatch.com/2016/10/27/even-top-economists-publish-in-predatory-journals-study-finds/ ), likely because amassing large number of publications regardless of the journal can help boost some performance metrics. More careful attention by academic institutions to the quality of publications and the process could help. However, collateral damage needs to be avoided: in response to the predatory journals problem, the Medical Council of India declared that all e-journals were not acceptable for academic promotions, harming open access and under-resourced journals without funds for print publication (see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4782415/ ). 

 

Although some academics may be unaware they're listed as editors or on editorial boards of predatory journals, some academics may be willing accomplices. On a brief search of editors of Beall-listed journals I found one OMICs journal edited by a US professor at a mainstream institution who also spoke at an OMICs conference (another part of the predatory money making scheme; http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/dr-madhukar-pai/predatory-conferences-academia_b_12467834.html ). Presumably at some point the professor discovered that the organization and journal were not high quality, but the rewards of the roles made it worthwhile to him anyway. 


Academic institutions have a major role to play: they need to ensure that the publishing and editorial activities of their faculty are conducted with legitimate journals (assuming one can identify them). As a simple start, institutions could find via Google which journals a faculty member's name is affiliated with, and determine whether the listings are correct and the legitimacy of the journals/publishers. Compiling information from faculty experience regarding peer review processes and journal editing could be very valuable in identifying (il)legitimate journals. 

 

On a final note, ThinkCheckSubmit http://thinkchecksubmit.org has a useful tool for authors.  


Best wishes,


Margaret


Margaret Winker, MD

Secretary and Past President, World Association of Medical Editors (WAME)

Former Deputy Web Editor, JAMA, and former Senior Research Editor, PLOS Medicine 

-Views are my own and do not necessarily represent those of WAME.-




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Barrett, Kim

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Jan 23, 2017, 6:10:49 PM1/23/17
to Mike Taylor, Rick Anderson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

I clicked the link eagerly hoping for a resource I could share, but this is not helpful at all.  Indeed, with the snarky comment “So much talk that I can’t help wondering whether the phrase is being pushed by barrier-based publishers in another attempt to smear open access” it just continues to polarize rather than contribute to solving the problem.

 

These predatory journals go to great lengths to look and sound legitimate.  It’s no wonder that those who are new to the system can be taken in, especially if they are working in a setting where mentoring is hard to come by.  In fact, one of the saddest things is that those who can least afford to be taken in by these scams are the most likely to fall victim.

 

Kim E. Barrett, Ph.D.

Distinguished Professor of Medicine, UC San Diego

Editor-in-Chief, The Journal of Physiology

Ph: 858 534 2796

 

From: Mike Taylor [mailto:mi...@indexdata.com]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 2:59 PM
To: Barrett, Kim <kbar...@ucsd.edu>
Cc: Rick Anderson <rick.a...@utah.edu>; osi2016-25-googlegroups.com <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: new workgroup for Beall's List 2.0 / open resource development?

 

If only those students were educated!

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Mike Taylor

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Jan 23, 2017, 6:14:27 PM1/23/17
to Barrett, Kim, Rick Anderson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com
On 23 January 2017 at 23:10, Barrett, Kim <kbar...@ucsd.edu> wrote:

I clicked the link eagerly hoping for a resource I could share, but this is not helpful at all.


I beg to differ. It is literally all you need to know in order to avoid predatory journals.

This is not a complicated problem.

(By all means ignore the snarky opening paragraph. That is not really germane, and should probably have been left out -- although let the record show that in fact Beall WAS attempting to portray all open access in a bad light, as his own writings make plainly clear.)

-- Mike.

 

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Barrett, Kim

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Jan 23, 2017, 6:16:47 PM1/23/17
to Margaret Winker Cook, Glenn Hampson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

Thanks for the thinkchecksubmit link – that truly is a useful resource.

 

Kim E. Barrett, Ph.D.

Distinguished Professor of Medicine, UC San Diego

Editor-in-Chief, The Journal of Physiology

Ph: 858 534 2796

 

From: osi20...@googlegroups.com [mailto:osi20...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Winker Cook


Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 3:03 PM
To: Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>

Cc: osi2016-25-googlegroups.com <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: new workgroup for Beall's List 2.0 / open resource development?

 

Hi Glenn and all,

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Glenn Hampson

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Jan 23, 2017, 7:21:18 PM1/23/17
to osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

One perspective that hasn’t been mentioned yet is the damage being done to science by fraudulent publishers. This NPR article about John Bohannon’s experiment from a few years ago (where he submitted a fake research article 305 times and had a 61% acceptance rate) has some good insight into this (I’m sure there’s been deeper analyses since then): http://n.pr/2frPyAO. From this article:

Two big questions arise out of all this: What damage is done by publish-anything journals? And what can be done about it?

The potential damage is both far-reaching and difficult to quantify. Bohannan points out that universities and government agencies, particularly in developing countries, may hire researchers based on resumes packed with sleazy citations. Determining which of those CV entries is high-quality and which aren't is no easy task.

Beall notes that lawyers often use scientific citations in briefs and trials. Government officials draw on published research to set policy. Drug companies have a strong incentive to manipulate research to bolster their claims. And researchers may be led down futile paths on the basis of poor research.

As to what can be done, Beall says poor-quality research can probably only be driven out by naming and shaming.

Bohannan thinks there might be a sort of Consumer Reports to survey the quality of online journals and call out those that fall short. And he thinks maybe such an enterprise might regularly carry out stings like his to keep everyone in the field on their toes.

Of course, Randy Schekman and others have argued that the name-brand dominated journal system is also damaging science because this system rewards producing papers that are eye-catching (and even increases the temptation to bury negative findings as Ben Goldacre has argued). So I guess there’s plenty of ire to go round. But the larger point is that irrespective of who’s to blame for participating in the system the way it’s constructed---on either end of the system---journals are a vital conduit between researchers and between research and the public, and until/unless that changes, protecting the integrity of the system is quite important.

 

Best,

 

Glenn

 

Glenn Hampson

Executive Director

National Science Communication Institute (nSCI)

Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

osi-logo-2016-25-mail

 

2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133

(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org

 

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Barrett, Kim

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Jan 23, 2017, 7:34:02 PM1/23/17
to Glenn Hampson, osi2016-25-googlegroups.com

Rick also does a good job of addressing these issues in his Scholarly Kitchen piece.

 

Kim E. Barrett, Ph.D.

Distinguished Professor of Medicine, UC San Diego

Editor-in-Chief, The Journal of Physiology

Ph: 858 534 2796

 

Bev.A...@f1000.com

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Jan 24, 2017, 5:34:51 AM1/24/17
to osi20...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for the feedback Kim (and Margaret) - Speaking as one of the original founders of Think.Check.Submit (along with Lars) - if people can think of anything else we could be adding to the resource to make it even more useful, we'd be very happy to hear ideas from you. 


From: osi20...@googlegroups.com [osi20...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Barrett, Kim [kbar...@ucsd.edu]
Sent: 23 January 2017 23:16
To: Margaret Winker Cook; Glenn Hampson
Cc: osi2016-25-googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: new workgroup for Beall's List 2.0 / open resource development?

Faculty of 1000 and F1000 are trading names of Faculty of 1000 Limited. This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. Faculty of 1000 Limited does not accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of Faculty of 1000 Limited. No contracts may be concluded on behalf of Faculty of 1000 Limited by means of e-mail communication. Faculty of 1000 Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered number 3739756 Registered Office Middlesex House, 34-42 Cleveland Street, London W1T 4LB

Angela Cochran

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Jan 24, 2017, 6:56:13 AM1/24/17
to Bev.A...@f1000.com, osi20...@googlegroups.com
When I give a talk on guidelines for choosing the right journal, I start with "not all OA journals are predatory; but most predatory journals are OA." When I talk to people all over the world, they sight predatory journals as the reason to not only avoid OA journals but also online only journals. This is why publishers are doing well with Hybrid OA. I can also tell you that libraries all over the place were linking to Beall's list to provide guidance for students and faculty. Journals pop up all the time and I don't know how a white list will stay current. 

We need to continue to push Think.Check.Submit with the caveat that many of the fraudulent journals and conferences are having a fairly easy time if faking all the markers. 

Angela Cochran
Associate Publisher, ASCE
Sent from my iPhone

<image001.jpg>

David Wojick

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Jan 24, 2017, 7:51:12 AM1/24/17
to osi20...@googlegroups.com
Cabell's says they will launch their blacklist this spring, but of course that can change.

I am very concerned that any blacklist based on business practices will do much more harm than good. The journals on Beall's lists are publishing hundreds of thousands of articles a year, for very low APCs. Being blacklisted is seriously impeding the communication of this huge amount of research. It threatens the entire low cost publishing revolution.

David
Inside Public Access

<image001.jpg>

 

2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133

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David Wojick

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Jan 24, 2017, 8:00:04 AM1/24/17
to osi20...@googlegroups.com
The central question, which no one seems to be asking, is what fraction of the 12,000+ journals on Beall's lists are actually fraudulent? I suspect very few because of the huge number of legitimate articles being published. Everywhere I look I see people assuming that all of these journals are fraudulent (whatever that even means). This is wildly false and very bad for science, because a huge literature is being blackballed in the process.

Questionable business practices do not render the published science illegitimate. This is especially true if these practices merely reflect the ultra-low budget of the journal, which appears to be the case in many instances.

David
Inside Public Access

Annie Johnson

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Jan 24, 2017, 9:17:32 AM1/24/17
to osi20...@googlegroups.com
I have to say that my thinking has really changed on this issue. I
used to believe that it was fairly easy to avoid so-called "predatory
publishers." However, after managing our OA Publishing Fund, and
researching our faculty's OA publishing practices, I am convinced that
faculty and graduate students need a lot more education when it comes
to figuring out which journals to publish in or otherwise be involved
with.

I think the Library Loon's ideas for dealing with this problem are quite good:
http://gavialib.com/2017/01/roughing-out-a-new-system-for-identifying-useless-journals/

In particular, I agree with her that any "list" should focus on
individual journals, not publishers.

Best,

Annie
Annie Johnson
Library Publishing and Scholarly Communications Specialist
Temple University Libraries/Temple University Press
Samuel L. Paley Library
1210 Polett Walk
Philadelphia, PA 19122
215-204-6511
@anniekjohn

Rick Anderson

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Jan 24, 2017, 9:37:24 AM1/24/17
to David Wojick, osi20...@googlegroups.com

I don’t think anyone believes that a deceptive or predatory journal can never publish legitimate science. The problem isn’t that they produce only garbage, and the problem isn’t the size of their APCs; the problem that concerns us is when a journal engages in deceptive practices. When a journal offers peer review or editorial vetting for a price, but then doesn’t provide it; when it lies about the nature or makeup of its editorial board; when it misrepresents an affiliation with a scholarly society; when it lies about its Impact Factor (or about having one at all), and so forth, these are practices that should be called out regardless of whether the submissions it attracts represent legitimate science.

 

---

Rick Anderson

Assoc. Dean for Collections & Scholarly Communication

Marriott Library, University of Utah

rick.a...@utah.edu

 

Cochran, Angela

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Jan 24, 2017, 9:45:31 AM1/24/17
to Rick Anderson, David Wojick, osi20...@googlegroups.com

Or, they disappear and the authors are left with nothing because no one bothered to check that the content is being archived properly.

 

Angela Cochran

Associate Publisher, ASCE

 




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David Wojick

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Jan 24, 2017, 9:59:31 AM1/24/17
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First of all, and again, what fraction of the journals on Beall's list actually engage in these specific deceptive practices? I suspect the fraction is quite low. Many of Beall's criteria simply target low cost journals.

Second, if those journals that in fact using false advertising still publish large numbers of legitimate articles, how do we provide access and discovery for these articles, when the journals are being blackballed by the indexers, etc., for being blacklisted?

There is a huge scientific communication problem here, which I think dwarfs the predation problem. Millions of articles and researchers, mostly from poorer countries, are being adversely affected because their journals are on Beall's lists.

David
Inside Public Access

Danny Kingsley

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Jan 24, 2017, 9:59:48 AM1/24/17
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In response to Angela's comment "not all OA journals are predatory; but most predatory journals are OA." it might be worth noting that all is not shiny and clean on the non-OA side of the ledger. What exactly are we describing as predatory behaviour?

1. Publishing fake journals that are paid for by a commerical interest and dressed up to look like 'real' journals?
"Elsevier published 6 fake journals" - http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/27383/title/Elsevier-published-6-fake-journals/

2. Using 'peer review rings' to give the impression of a robust peer review process?
"17 retractions from SAGE journals bring total fake peer review count to 250"http://retractionwatch.com/2015/08/19/17-retractions-from-sage-journals-bring-total-fake-peer-review-count-to-250/

3. Or not doing any peer review at all, just waving articles through?
"How Gobbledygook Ended Up in Respected Scientific Journals" (Springer and IEEE) http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/02/27/how_nonsense_papers_ended_up_in_respected_scientific_journals.html

The Bohannon sting only sent the articles to open access journals, it did not send any to subscription journals. That in itself is not a particularly robust study.

I'm not defending Beall's list nor predatory publishers, I am simply pointing out that there are problems in the system everywhere.

Danny

Rick Anderson

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Jan 24, 2017, 10:04:51 AM1/24/17
to David Wojick, osi20...@googlegroups.com

I think we all agree that Beall’s List was seriously flawed, and that a blacklist is only as good as the legitimacy of its criteria and only as effective as the fairness, transparency, and consistency of its implementation.

 

So let’s create a legitimate set of criteria and manage the list fairly, transparently, and consistently. (Or support such a list if someone else does it.)

Angela Cochran

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Jan 24, 2017, 11:49:33 AM1/24/17
to Danny Kingsley, The Open Scholarship Initiative
Danny, I am really not interested in re-litigating what Elsevier did in 2009. The point is that authors in countries outside the US and Europe, who are under even more pressure to publish in journals, are being scammed by fly-by-night operations and larger operations that are purposefully misrepresenting themselves. They are getting spam emails every dang day about new journals. All that noise is shaping opinions about open access journals, online only journals, and new innovative models in general. If you want to tell them not to bother publishing in Elsevier, Springer, and IEEE and lump that all in with OMICS, that's really not fair.  

Angela Cochran

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Angela Cochran

Tee Guidotti

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Jan 24, 2017, 12:38:17 PM1/24/17