Comp.infosystems.gemini RFD

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noscript

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Oct 2, 2021, 8:25:04 AMOct 2
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REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: comp.infosystems.gemini

NEWSGROUPS LINE:

comp.infosystems.gemini, Discussion about new gemini internet protocol

RATIONALE:

The Gemini community largely exists in the form of a mailing list. A
newsgroup would be a natural compliment to the existing mailing list as
well as a mirror for newsgroup messages.

This topic has already been proposed to the mailing list community with
positive results. See:
https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2021/007227.html

CHARTER:

comp.infosystems.gemini is a forum for announcements and conversation
within the Gemini communitity. It is an unmoderated forum. Users are
encouraged to self-moderate via filters and kill files in their
newsreader software.

MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated

Plain Text

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Oct 2, 2021, 9:52:15 AMOct 2
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> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
> (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup:
> comp.infosystems.gemini

I agree with the proposal and would like to see this new newsgroup
created. Network News Transfer Protocol seems to me like a natural
companion for discussing anything related to the Gemini Protocol.
Generally I enjoy following newsgroups better than mailing lists.

Thanks

Jason Evans

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Oct 2, 2021, 10:03:23 AMOct 2
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noscript wrote:

> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
> (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup:
> comp.infosystems.gemini

I'm a member of this community also and would love to see a new newsgroup.
created.

__
JE

gemini://gemini.theuse.net

Adam H. Kerman

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Oct 2, 2021, 11:34:30 AMOct 2
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noscript <sept...@noulin.net> wrote:

>REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
>(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: comp.infosystems.gemini

>NEWSGROUPS LINE:

>comp.infosystems.gemini, Discussion about new gemini internet protocol
^
That is a syntax error. The comma MUST NOT be there. The group name must
be identical to the name of the group being proposed.

Could you please fix the Newsgroups file line description? It's a phrase
made up of key words. DO NOT repeat words from the group name.
"Discussion" is not a key word and shouldn't be there.

>RATIONALE:

>The Gemini community largely exists in the form of a mailing list. A
>newsgroup would be a natural compliment to the existing mailing list as
>well as a mirror for newsgroup messages.

Do subscribers want to move their discussion to Usenet? Do they want to
discuss on both the mailing list and Usenet? Can you find instances of
Gemini discussion taking place on Usenet?

>This topic has already been proposed to the mailing list community with
>positive results. See:
>https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2021/007227.html

>CHARTER:

>comp.infosystems.gemini is a forum for announcements and conversation
>within the Gemini communitity. It is an unmoderated forum. Users are
>encouraged to self-moderate via filters and kill files in their
>newsreader software.

That last sentence doesn't belong in a charter.

Uh, you want to tell the Usenet conmunity what Gemini is and include it
in the charter, else you aren't trying to expand your participants
beyond those who already know what it is.

Don't tell me what it is. Rewrite the charter to tell the Usenet
community what it is. Also, please don't refer to a newsgroup as a
forum. It doesn't tell us anything either.

>MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated

noscript

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Oct 2, 2021, 2:15:30 PMOct 2
to
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: comp.infosystems.gemini

NEWSGROUPS LINE:

comp.infosystems.gemini About a new internet protocol

RATIONALE:

The Gemini community largely exists in the form of a mailing list. A
newsgroup would be a natural compliment to the existing mailing list as
well as a mirror for newsgroup messages.

This topic has already been proposed to the mailing list community with
positive results. See:
https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2021/007227.html

CHARTER:

comp.infosystems.gemini is a forum for announcements and conversation
within the Gemini communitity. It is an unmoderated forum. Users are
encouraged to self-moderate via filters and kill files in their
newsreader software.

MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated

Adam H. Kerman

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Oct 2, 2021, 5:52:01 PMOct 2
to
noscript <sept...@noulin.net> wrote:

>REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
>(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: comp.infosystems.gemini

>NEWSGROUPS LINE:

>comp.infosystems.gemini About a new internet protocol

Please post all followups in the original thread so the reader can
follow the discussion.

Can you please put something descriptive in there and in the charter? It
would really be nice if you gave the casual reader a hint as to what is
Gemini to let him know the topic might be of interest.

D Finnigan

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Oct 3, 2021, 2:55:51 AMOct 3
to
On 2021-10-02 14:03:21 +0000, Jason Evans said:

> noscript wrote:
>
>> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
>> (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup:
>> comp.infosystems.gemini
>
> I'm a member of this community also and would love to see a new newsgroup.
> created.

I read the Gemini mailing list, and I would participate in a gemini
newsgroup if it were created.

noscript

unread,
Oct 3, 2021, 8:36:24 AMOct 3
to
On 10/2/21 5:34 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> Do subscribers want to move their discussion to Usenet? Do they want to
> discuss on both the mailing list and Usenet? Can you find instances of
> Gemini discussion taking place on Usenet?

The subscribers want to discuss on both the mailing list and Usenet.

noscript

unread,
Oct 3, 2021, 3:04:59 PMOct 3
to
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: comp.infosystems.gemini

NEWSGROUPS LINE:

comp.infosystems.gemini Internet Protocol and Hypertext System

RATIONALE:

The Gemini community publishes textual content to be served via the
Gemini protocol. Linking to other documents Gemini creates a hypertext
information system similar to the early World Wide Web. The protocol is
not to be extended per definition and community consent. Although any
content can be served over Gemini, the community mostly sticks to the
default content type text/gemini which offers a limited set of line
types to semantically structure the content and link to other resources.

Recently, Gemini was mentionend in comp.infosystems.gopher. Compared to
Gopher Gemini encrypts content in transport and probably offers easier
access to content published by the community due to clients created
natively for various operating systems, including graphical and mobile
(e.g. Android and iOS), that resemble well-known web browsers. Content
organization on the server side is more straight-forward e.g. having no
item types.

The Gemini community largely exists in the form of a mailing list. The
newsgroup would complement the mailing list and some IRC channels,
probably targeting casual readers not wanting to subscribe to a list by
mail. In the past, people unsubscribed from the list due to high traffic
then.

This topic has already been proposed to the mailing list community with
positive results. See:
https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2021/007227.html

The discussions would happen on both the mailing list and the newsgroup
as these would be mirrored.


CHARTER:

This newsgroup covers the Gemini internet protocol, the Gemini
information space and the tools created by its community.

Binaries should not be posted to the group.

MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated

Paul W. Schleck

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Oct 4, 2021, 8:07:54 AMOct 4
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In <sj9j2u$r08$2...@dont-email.me> noscript <sept...@noulin.net> writes:

>REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
>(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: comp.infosystems.gemini

>NEWSGROUPS LINE:

>comp.infosystems.gemini, Discussion about new gemini internet protocol

If this is a protocol, should it be under comp.protocols.* instead?
Maybe comp.protocols.* is for lower-level protocols and other
sub-hierarchies like comp.infosystems.* have traditionally been used for
application-level protocols. I see the update of the newsgroups line in
a later followup to the original RFD:

comp.infosystems.gemini Internet Protocol and Hypertext System

so possibly this is the best choice.

For example:

comp.protocols.appletalk Applebus hardware & software.
comp.protocols.dicom Digital Imaging and Communications in Medicine.
comp.protocols.dns.bind Berkeley Internet Name Domain (BIND). (Moderated)
comp.protocols.dns.std DNS standards activities, including IETF. (Moderated)
comp.protocols.ibm Networking with IBM mainframes.
comp.protocols.iso The ISO protocol stack.
comp.protocols.kerberos The Kerberos authentication server.
comp.protocols.kermit.announce Kermit announcements. (Moderated)
comp.protocols.kermit.misc Kermit protocol and software.
comp.protocols.misc Various forms and types of protocol.
comp.protocols.nfs Discussion about the Network File System protocol.
comp.protocols.ppp Discussion of the Internet Point to Point Protocol.
comp.protocols.smb SMB file sharing protocol and Samba SMB server/client.
comp.protocols.snmp The Simple Network Management Protocol.
comp.protocols.tcp-ip TCP and IP network protocols.
comp.protocols.tcp-ip.domains Topics related to Domain Style names.
comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc TCP/IP for IBM(-like) personal computers.
comp.protocols.time.ntp The network time protocol.

comp.infosystems Any discussion about information systems.
comp.infosystems.gis All aspects of Geographic Information Systems.
comp.infosystems.gopher Discussion of the Gopher information service.
comp.infosystems.harvest Harvest information discovery and access system.
comp.infosystems.hyperg The Hyper-G network hypermedia system and applications.
comp.infosystems.interpedia The Internet Encyclopedia.
comp.infosystems.intranet Intranet topics.
comp.infosystems.kiosks Informational and transactional kiosks. (Moderated)
comp.infosystems.search All aspects of search technology.
comp.infosystems.wais The Z39.50-based WAIS full-text search system.
comp.infosystems.www.advocacy Comments and arguments over the best and worst.
comp.infosystems.www.announce World-Wide Web announcements. (Moderated)
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi CGI Programming. (Moderated)
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html Writing HTML for the Web.
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.images Using images, imagemaps on the Web.
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.misc Miscellaneous Web authoring issues.
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design Web site design philosophy.
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets Layout/presentation on the WWW.
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.tools Programs to help authoring Websites.
comp.infosystems.www.browsers.mac Web browsers for the Macintosh platform.
comp.infosystems.www.browsers.misc Web browsers for other platforms.
comp.infosystems.www.browsers.ms-windows Web browsers for MS Windows.
comp.infosystems.www.browsers.x Web browsers for the X-Window system.
comp.infosystems.www.databases Web Database Integration.
comp.infosystems.www.misc Miscellaneous World Wide Web discussion.
comp.infosystems.www.servers.mac Web servers for the Macintosh platform.
comp.infosystems.www.servers.misc Web servers for other platforms.
comp.infosystems.www.servers.ms-windows Web servers for MS Windows and NT.
comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix Web servers for UNIX platforms.

Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) is even under news.software.*:

news.software.nntp The Network News Transfer Protocol.

- --
Paul W. Schleck
psch...@panix.com

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Jason Evans

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Oct 5, 2021, 7:06:17 AMOct 5
to
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:07:53 -0000 (UTC), Paul W. Schleck wrote:

>>comp.infosystems.gemini, Discussion about new gemini internet protocol
>
> If this is a protocol, should it be under comp.protocols.* instead?
> Maybe comp.protocols.* is for lower-level protocols and other
> sub-hierarchies like comp.infosystems.* have traditionally been used for
> application-level protocols. I see the update of the newsgroups line in
> a later followup to the original RFD:
>
> comp.infosystems.gemini Internet Protocol and Hypertext System
>
> so possibly this is the best choice.

Here's how the originators of Gemini describe it:


"Gemini is a new internet protocol which:

Is heavier than gopher
Is lighter than the web
Will not replace either
Strives for maximum power to weight ratio
Takes user privacy very seriously"

It is an internet protocol par with gopher or www. Since
comp.infosystems.gopher and comp.infosystems.www already exists, that
seems to be the best hierarchy for it.

Plain Text

unread,
Oct 5, 2021, 7:46:07 AMOct 5
to
On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 11:06:15 +0000, Jason Evans wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:07:53 -0000 (UTC), Paul W. Schleck wrote:
>
>> comp.infosystems.gemini Internet Protocol and Hypertext System
>
> Since comp.infosystems.gopher and comp.infosystems.www already exists,
> that seems to be the best hierarchy for it.

I agree (having brought up the thought of a joint newsgroup for gopher
and gemini under an alterative new name).

Adam H. Kerman

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Oct 5, 2021, 9:48:24 AMOct 5
to
I never raised on objection to the proposed name.

What can be done to get the proponent to put a proper description in the
group's charter, and a brief description on the Newsgroups file line,
that gives the rest of the Usenet community not already familiar with
the protocol some idea as to what it is?

"Heavier than" and "lighter than" still tells me as little as possible,
and "maximum power to weight ratio" sounds like automobile marketing.

Plain Text

unread,
Oct 5, 2021, 10:56:16 AMOct 5
to
On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 13:48:22 +0000, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> What can be done to get the proponent to put a proper description in the
> group's charter, and a brief description on the Newsgroups file line,
> that gives the rest of the Usenet community not already familiar with
> the protocol some idea as to what it is?

Building on noscript's post from Sunday, let me have another try. Thanks.


NEWSGROUPS LINE:

comp.infosystems.gemini Internet Hypertext System, Privacy, Accessibility.

CHARTER:

This newsgroup covers the Gemini information space served via the Gemini
internet protocol, related concepts and tools created by its community.

Gemini is an internet protocol to primarily serve human readable content.
Served content is not limited to text. Transfer is encrypted for privacy.

Most content served by Gemini is written in Gemtext, a primitive markup
language that contains a limited set of line types to semantically
structure text and link to other resources. Although the protocol is
content type agnostic, Gemtext is prevalent in the known information
space. As Gemtext can be read without the need of complex clients (such
as XHTML browsers) the published information space offers good
accessibility. The Gemini protocol and Gemtext content type are not to be
extended per definition and community consent.

--
Note: Top ten content types served by known resources as per 2021-10-04:

96737 - text/gemini
30132 - text/plain
6891 - octet/stream
6586 - application/x-mscardfile
5883 - image/jpeg
3621 - image/png
1435 - application/octet-stream
944 - text/x-patch
810 - image/gif
563 - application/pdf

gemini://geminispace.info/statistics
to be accessed in a Gemini client, e.g. amfora or lagrange or via proxy
https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/geminispace.info/statistics (for example)

Adam H. Kerman

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Oct 7, 2021, 3:38:19 AMOct 7
to
Plain Text <te...@sdfeu.org> wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 13:48:22 +0000, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>
>> What can be done to get the proponent to put a proper description in the
>> group's charter, and a brief description on the Newsgroups file line,
>> that gives the rest of the Usenet community not already familiar with
>> the protocol some idea as to what it is?
>
>Building on noscript's post from Sunday, let me have another try. Thanks.
>
>
>NEWSGROUPS LINE:
>
>comp.infosystems.gemini Internet Hypertext System, Privacy, Accessibility.
>
>CHARTER:
>
>This newsgroup covers the Gemini information space served via the Gemini
>internet protocol, related concepts and tools created by its community.
>
>Gemini is an internet protocol to primarily serve human readable content.
>Served content is not limited to text. Transfer is encrypted for privacy.
>
>Most content served by Gemini is written in Gemtext, a primitive markup
>language that contains a limited set of line types to semantically
>structure text and link to other resources. Although the protocol is
>content type agnostic, Gemtext is prevalent in the known information
>space. As Gemtext can be read without the need of complex clients (such
>as XHTML browsers) the published information space offers good
>accessibility. The Gemini protocol and Gemtext content type are not to be
>extended per definition and community consent.

That's very much improved.

noscript

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Oct 7, 2021, 6:58:04 AMOct 7
to
I agree with this charter. I was also thinking about moving parts of the
rational to the charter like you did.

Adam H. Kerman

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Oct 7, 2021, 2:23:31 PMOct 7
to
noscript <sept...@noulin.net> wrote:

>I agree with this charter. I was also thinking about moving parts of the
>rational to the charter like you did.

Please don't top post.

Having a rationale is neither here nor there.

You're the proponent. You need to be able to explain this to people, a
la The Elevator Speech. Promote the hell out of it and find an audience
ON USENET to discuss this.

The newgroup message is just the start of the beginning. Your job isn't
finished as proponent till there is sustainable on-topic discussion in
the group. Discussion isn't full-text quote of Web articles but things
people post to Usenet on the topic of the newsgroup that get followups,
themselves on topic.

Don't crosspost the early discussion because you want this group to find
its own audience unique from other newsgroups.

Seamus

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Oct 7, 2021, 9:35:18 PMOct 7
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