Otis Elevator Tube Hivac 425A2

[mjrippe]

Greetings folks,

I haven't been too active lately, but I read the digest every day.  Although I am starting to thin out my collection, I ran across a fun piece today - a Hivac 425A2 made for Otis Elevator.  Octal base, but only six pins.  It appears to be a touch sensitive neon switch like some other part numbers which I am forgetting right now.  A bit of googling did not bring up anything useful.  Does anyone have a data sheet so I can fire it up?

Thanks,
Mike

[kay486]

That sounds quite interesting, could you upload here few images maybe?

[Dekatron42]

It is similar to QT1257 by EEV which you can find a datasheet for here: http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/084/q/QT1257.pdf and the Sylvania / CETRON 2040 tube, a similar tube was manufactured by Cerberus, called GK11, which you can find data on here: http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/174/g/GK11.pdf. The Otis tubes are usually marked with a number like 70, 72, 72 or 73 which is the voltage drop that they have when activated. It was important to replace a tube with another one with the same voltage drop so that the circuit would work properly as they were connected in parallel and it did not work properly otherwise. The internal design is identical (as far as I know) to RCA 1C21 tubes, which are painted black so they won't be activated by touch or other external fields, which they will be if you remove the paint (although there might be some difference in the touch sensitive area on the glass). I have a few 425A2, 2040 and also 1C21's that all work by touching them.

 

/Martin

[mjrippe]

Much obliged, Martin!  2040 was the number I couldn't think of.  Besides the date code, there is a paper sticker with a number (72 I think but the tube is at my shop).  I will try it out and post results/photos soon!

Mike

[John Rehwinkel]

> I haven't been too active lately, but I read the digest every day. Although I am starting to thin out my collection, I ran across a fun piece today - a Hivac 425A2 made for Otis Elevator. Octal base, but only six pins. It appears to be a touch sensitive neon switch like some other part numbers which I am forgetting right now. A bit of googling did not bring up anything useful. Does anyone have a data sheet so I can fire it up?

http://www.vitriol.com/pdf/otis-tube.pdf

- John

[Dekatron42]

The datashet that John linked to is stuck onto the end of the datasheet for the QT1257, I never found it as a separate datasheet before when looking for it several years ago.

 

I also forgot to say that it seems to me like these tubes were actually named 425 or 425A as the last number varies with the voltage drop, at least it does so on my tubes - so 425A2 is 72V, 425A5 is 75V for the ones I own, but for the 2040's and 1C21's the voltage drop is closer to the 80V stated in the datasheet for the QT1257, and they don't have a sticker or any printed number for the voltage drop. There is one 425A5 at Radiomuseum: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_2040.html which also has 2040 printed on the glass. I guess these tubes were tested at the factory where they were measured and then were either printed or had a sticker with the voltage drop glued to them so they could be used as the correct replacement for the circuit.

 

/Martin

[Joseph Bento]

Here's a video of a guy getting really excited over the touch buttons:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUFRoBb3nGQ

 

I certainly remember these.  Very common 20 years ago, but I'm certain I've rode in elevators with these touch sensitive buttons over the past few years.

 

Joe

[Nick]

On Monday, 30 September 2013 04:05:22 UTC+1, Joseph Bento wrote:

Here's a video of a guy getting really excited over the touch buttons:

Ummm. I thought that we were pretty sad liking cold-cathode stuff that much, but I think that this guy need professional help !

Nick

[Quixotic Nixotic]

Yes, and do remember people, its easy to get hooked on them like that and lifts/elevators can go down as well as up,

John

[Tidak Ada]

I have here a typewritten paper from OTIS, describing the principles and schematics and a leaflet from Lift components Ltd

 

Further some newspaper articles about the panic concerning radioactive elements inside the tube

 

May be there is interest?

 

eric

---

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dekatron42
Sent: zondag 29 september 2013 9:47
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Otis Elevator Tube Hivac 425A2

The datashet that John linked to is stuck onto the end of the datasheet for the QT1257, I never found it as a separate datasheet before when looking for it several years ago.

 

I also forgot to say that it seems to me like these tubes were actually named 425 or 425A as the last number varies with the voltage drop, at least it does so on my tubes - so 425A2 is 72V, 425A5 is 75V for the ones I own, but for the 2040's and 1C21's the voltage drop is closer to the 80V stated in the datasheet for the QT1257, and they don't have a sticker or any printed number for the voltage drop. There is one 425A5 at Radiomuseum: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_2040.html which also has 2040 printed on the glass. I guess these tubes were tested at the factory where they were measured and then were either printed or had a sticker with the voltage drop glued to them so they could be used as the correct replacement for the circuit.

 

/Martin

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[Tom Nolan]

Tim Laing (who sold some 2040's to me) had some info on the radiation
furor which he sent me with the tubes. Unfortunately, I'm on the road
and don't have access to it right now. From memory there was an
overblown article in a newspaper that cited the radiation from the
2040's as being a danger.

The real danger, here, is that these tubes - like many of the low
voltage trigger tubes - will not work very much longer as the radiation
sources decay and raises the trigger threshold.

I still really like them.

Tom

[Smiffy]

> The real danger, here, is that these tubes - like many of the low
> voltage trigger tubes - will not work very much longer as the radiation
> sources decay and raises the trigger threshold.

I wonder if these could be resurrected by attaching a radiation source 
to the envelope. I'd guess that the envelope would probably block 
alphas, so no point in taping an Am241 source from a smoke detector to 
the envelope, but possibly a small, exempt size beta source of Sr90 
might get one back in action?

Greater health risk from the B+ on the tube than from such a tiny 
radiation source.


-- 
Matthew Smith

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ABN 16 391 203 815

[Tidak Ada]

It concerns Co60

 

eric

 

 

---

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Smiffy
Sent: maandag 30 september 2013 12:29
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Otis Elevator Tube Hivac 425A2

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[Tidak Ada]

Vancouver Sun and BBC News

I have some info from Lud too.

eric

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From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On

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[Nick]

Some years ago I tried to do some tests on this (I have some 2040s).

As a general issue, nixies and neon trigger tubes also don't fire well in the dark - they utilise stray photons to help initiate ionisation. If you wanted reliable triggering, adding a small radioactive source helped greatly 

So, I did some ad hoc tests in the dark using uranium glass balls (very very low level of radiation - 10 - 15 microRems/hour) which showed some minor increase in repeatability of firing at a given voltage. Its an experiment I should have taken further.

Nick

[Instrument Resources of America]

Kind of lends new meaning to "getting off from the elevator".  ;))  Ira.      Also, maybe HIS elevator doesn't quite make it to the top floor any longer.   LOL

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[Tidak Ada]

Much of the radiation is blocked by the glass envelope. Therefore a source inside a tube may be much smaller than outside.

 

eric

---

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Sent: maandag 30 september 2013 15:50
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Otis Elevator Tube Hivac 425A2

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[John Rehwinkel]

> Some years ago I tried to do some tests on this (I have some 2040s).
>
> As a general issue, nixies and neon trigger tubes also don't fire well in the dark - they utilise stray photons to help initiate ionisation. If you wanted reliable triggering, adding a small radioactive source helped greatly

Adding a source of stray photons works too - a blue LED aimed at a gas tube stabilizes it nicely. However, that might detract from the glow, if it's used in a visible way. Perhaps a near-UV LED would do the trick. Easy enough to try out.

- John

[Joseph Bento]

I've always had a soft spot for nixies, perhaps because of their true number displays, with Numitrons and VFDs a close second. 

[Tidak Ada]

There are even LED's down to 245 nm. Unfortunately the price goes up
exponentially. To 340 nm they are payable... [
http://www.roithner-laser.com/led_deepuv.html ]

eric

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[Tidak Ada]

Sorry, I meant 355 nm

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hx705MuX20yCpp0vvCgAAAEAAAAD2MPY8/7FFAoegE8mnSirEBAAAAAA%3D%3D%40zeelandnet.
nl.

[mjrippe]

Back on topic...I hooked up the tube today and it works!  Thanks for all the info folks.  Here is a quick iPhone YouTube video of my test:
http://youtu.be/kXbaP88k6EY

Mike

[Charles MacDonald]

I worked for years in a Governement building in Hull Quebec (Place du
Portage) that had OTIS elevators with this style touch buttons. Most of
the staff thought they were heat activated and were worried that if
there was a fire they would call to the fire floor.

(several years later there was a mandatory refit of all elevators to
have a "Fireman" key and they were connected to the fire alarm so that a
fire would automatically put them in service mode and call them to the
lobby, where only the fireman�s key would make them work.)

I can recall on frustrating days I found that a wave of the hand was
sufficient to fire all the buttons on the way off the elevator.

--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca Just Beyond the Fringe
http://Charles.MacDonald.org/tubes
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

[Nick]

Radiation exposure chart to put it all in perspective!

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

Nick

[Tidak Ada]

Not afraid of radiation. I worked several years in a C-lab and my wife is radiological worker.

 

I did mention the commotion about OTIS lifts only as a curiosity...

 

eric

---

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Sent: donderdag 3 oktober 2013 14:52
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Otis Elevator Tube Hivac 425A2

Radiation exposure chart to put it all in perspective!

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

Nick

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