Re: MLO 4.0 Update

[Holmes245]

I'm not sure if there will be an answer to this Wayne. I would like an update too but I think I hear Andrey in the kitchen over there banging pots and pans around. I think he's cooking up something good but I'm not sure if it's ready to come out of the oven yet.

Joel



On Monday, June 4, 2012 7:57:04 PM UTC-4, Wayne Mulqueen wrote:

Can we have an update please.

[Holmes245]

However, that said, it wouldn't hurt to have an "appetizer".  That's all we're asking for Andrey.

[daniel sekera]

I am not being critical or making a personal attack, just stating my perspective on this.

When I purchased this I was not promised any new versions at all.  Sure there is always that expectation but the reality is I purchased a fully functional product and all I can expect is for it to perform as designed at the point of purchase.

I also like the latest and greatest with everything, especially when it concerns productivity.  However the way I look a this is;  I have learned to operate with what I have and while there may be some little things that I wish it had or could do, it is still pretty good and makes my life easier.  I equate this to windows versions or mac versions or browsers or whatever.  I know they are developing a new windows operating system or I know they are developing updates or whatever but I am still using the version I have.  Until they are extremely close to launch you don't hear much about the latest OS and every single feature it will have.  Even then you can try to plan how it might improve what you do but until you actually get to use it much is still unknown.

So I just keep on using what I have the best I can someday it will happen or maybe someday it won't I can't influence that.  All I can do is keep working with the one I have which in the grand scheme of things is pretty darn good.

Until something better comes along.  I absolutely hope that the something better is a new version of what I have, but you just never know.

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 6:51 PM, motorwayne <wa...@family.org.nz> wrote:

Well, the thing is there hasn't been an update for a long time and I think we deserve one. Silence isn't golden.

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[Luc Poitras]

I really like the parrallel you make daniel with the Windows and Mac versions, and I have the big impression that this is what's happening here too. I have a Mac, and an Iphone, and I can see and feel in the blogs how Apple manages the output of info. when a futur product, or futur version is expected to come out on the market.

When Andrew and his team are ready, or close to get the mlo 4 on the market, with the acceptable level of perfection that satisfies them, we will certainly know, and all the excitment will come with it. 

But until then, people will put pressure as they always do in these cases...and life goes on!

Luc

Envoyé de mon iPhone

[m...@grantsmiths.org]

A small software shop like MLO has to face, daily, the fact that there are many important and worthwhile things that will not get done because resources are needed elsewhere. A huge shop can hire a marketing team to orchestrate and execute a series of briefings, leaks, and disclosures that keep everyone excited and engaged until the product finally reaches market. If MLO were to devote someone to that, it would probably involve some reduced effort going into preparing the next version, which would either come out later, or with fewer features. I think I would like MLO to spend a little more time on disclosing product roadmaps and schedules, but Andrey makes that choice and I will trust him to get it right. If MLO becomes like Blackberry and just abandons its customers, I’ll move on, but I don’t see that happening.

 

[robisme]

It's been over 7 months that this version was announced, creating a lot of expectation on the part of customers we all are.

It's REALLY time to communicate at least some major features they are working on.

That way, I could continue using MLO knowing that the next version will allow me some features I need, instead of looking for another tool that already has this features ...

[pottster]

The fact that this thread has had 168 views (and counting) and is the most viewed non-pinned thread since the group was formed suggests there is a lot of expectation out there. Whilst there is, quite rightly, a lot of goodwill and respect for Andrey, it's not a static marketplace and it would be a tragedy if people started looking elsewhere for solutions for the want of a short update. As England fans have been saying since they went out of the Euros 2012, the disappointment I can live with it's the hope that kills me.

[Holmes245]

Is anyone a part of the beta at all? I know a post went out for beta testers but has anyone actually started beta testing it that can confirm that it's in the works? This also makes me question exactly how big Andrey's team is. I'm sure it's a small development team but it's the non-communication that gets me. I continually see updates for my Android device but nothing regarding MLO v.4. If that continues in the next month or so, I'm going to be looking for another solution as well.

Joel

[Holmes245]

Correction: "Not in the works. I know it's in the works. I meant to say I was just curious if anyone could confirm, who's beta testing it, that it's coming along and possibly getting close to completion. Andrey's been talking about development at least since 7/2011 I know (I asked him about it in a post at that time). That's a bit too long IMO which leads me to think he's bitten off more than he can chew.

Joel

[CTenorman]

I'm not sure that's the case. I mean, when I compare the functionality and usefulness of MLO vs everything else on iOS, Android, Windows, etc., I'm continually blown away by what Andrey's done. If anyone can do it, I suspect he can.

However, if it is turning out to be more than he'd anticipated, then I'll at least put in my hat and say I'd be happy with a few extra features tagged on to MLO 3.x. I'd always love more of course (those sample drawings a while back looked quite interesting), but what's there is already so fantastic that enhancing that would keep at least this customer quite happy. It may not look stunningly gorgeous, but my gosh is it powerful!

[robisme]

I must admit that whenever I try another program, I quickly come back to MLO, which is incomparably more ergonomic and powerful than any other.

[Holmes245]

I do agree CTenorman, I have looked around only to come back because I have found MLO to be the most useful. Among all the to do list/personal task management software out there, whether install or download, I can't find anything that has matched MLO. I guess my real concern is whether or not very little communication means that the product isn't doing as well for him or not. I hope not because I personally have found it very very useful. I guess it's just that part of me that wants something new but I have to temper that with realizing that I am using the best task management software for me.

[Holmes245]

LORight, I've done that too. MLO is very lightweight and very powerful IMO.

Joel

[Bedrudin]

I really like this google group here. I've learned so much here and got so many ideas how to get out more from MLO.
From time to time somebody is asking about MLO 4.0, or in general when there will be a new release.
I propose the following: Stop asking about MLO 4.0 and start using the plenty features of MLO that are already there in Version 3.X. Buy a good book about organizing your work and time (Like Getting things done or something similar), read this google group (you may register for the daily mail notification), ask questions here, and you will be happy how good MLO supports and fits your needs already!

I'm personally not waiting for MLO 4.0. I use it since 2009 and there was constantly progress in development. Version 3 brought so many improvements compared to version 2 (since v3 editing of multiple items was possible, great!). Then the mobile versions came, one after another, great! The cloud sync was implemented, great! What would I have done with MLO 4.0 if there wasn't a mobile version for my preferred mobile phone? Going around with two devices, I think. But I can choose which mobile platform I want to use and for most OS there is a mobile MLO version, great! What would I have done with MLO 4.0 if there wasn't a cloud sync? Syncing at home with wifi sync only. What about my office PC then? But cloud sync is implemented, great! What would I have done, if cloud sync is buggy? What if we, the customers, ask for cloud sync (or any other feature), and want it fast, but then it comes out with lot of bugs? The features would be useless. Instead, Andrey tests each feature with the beta team and if a feature is stable, then it comes out. I'm working as a professional software architect/software developer, and I'm impressed how good MLO on all platforms with all its features works. Great work!

[Holmes245]

Yes, you're right Bedrudin. I have made a decision, as you have suggested, to stop inquiring because MLO as it stands now has  a lot more features than many personal task managers already have so I can be patient. Good point.

[pottster]

Glad that you're pleased with the current functionality. I value it highly too but I think you're missing the point(s).

1) Nothing can afford to stand still for long in the modern world - least of all software. If you look at the origins of MLO it's own successful birth came out of the neglect of a number of very similar products.

2) There is always competition. Look here for MLO alternatives  http://alternativeto.net/software/my-life-organized/  and this list is far from complete. Lack of development causes people to look elsewhere even if they end up returning. Eventually, if there is no change, people will stop returning if other products are in active development and MLO isn't.

3) Even if some are 100% happy with MLO as it is now I would suggest that the majority of MLO users would be classified as power users and always looking to improve and enhance their productivity systems. My evidence is the number of suggestions and votes on User Voice and the high level of activity on this forum. For non power users there are already numerous and, to be frank, far more elegant solutions in the app/cloud arena. Power users are the lifeblood and evangelists for MLO and they are the ones looking for continual improvement.

4) Concerns expressed are far from lack of patience but arise from the length of time between updates. Currently far longer than for previous versions.

5) No one wants a buggy release but that argument falls down as well when you consider how long it has been since an updated beta version has been available (or even news about one).

Asking for active development and communication is far from being disloyal or ungrateful towards Andrey as implied. It's actually the complete opposite on both counts. If the product doesn't improve and gain more users it dies and the product's success is based on the desktop version. Simple as that.

[Holmes245]

Pottster, I actually do get your point and understand and I have actually looked around, even on alternativeto.net and have yet to find anything with the matching power of MLO is all I meant. I may not be a power user (although recently I realized I haven't been using MLO as effectively) so I agree that if there is never any response or an update, people will leave including me. I'm just getting a lot of use out of it now so I can't complain too much is all I meant.

On that note, I did leave a comment on Andrey's MLO Facebook page inquiring about an update yesterday so we'll see if there's any response. I'm not going to ask anymore is all I meant. If I continue to see no communication, I too will move on.

That, being said, I'm assuming it would have to come out before the end of the year because Andrey posted in November that anyone who purchased MLO a year from the release of version 4 would get MLO v.4 for free. That doesn't fit my situation but would be bad business if he posted that, had people buy it from that point and did not release it before then. If that happens, I will be moving on myself.

Joel

[pottster]

This thread is now up to 337 views and is the most viewed thread in the history of this group. I would respectfully suggest that the need for an update is worth consideration.

[Greg.O]

+1 

Is the development team really comfortable giving the impression they don't care about their user base? How long does it take to put together a quick update post? 

It almost feels like Andrey's attitude is something along the lines of "oh, keep talking little people.. you're stuck with my glorious software anyway..". Sad...

[CTenorman]

I think we need to keep things in perspective here. First, there have been updates and lots of them - for the mobile platforms. And personally, I'm very glad that's where the latest updates have been landing. MLO is my LIFE organized, not just my work at my desk organized. Now, I've got 4 monitors and a monster desktop setup that I use extensively, so it's not as if I'm not someone who uses MLO for windows a lot - I am. But so much of what I do involves me doing other stuff in the world away from my desk. From remembering to ask my fiance about our dance routine for the wedding to ensuring that the boat gets an extra tie-down when I get to the cottage all let me relax and live in the moment. As David Allen would say, I can think about my stuff, not of it.

I'm not sure what updates the iOS platform has been getting, but the Android app has been receiving a series of very nice upgrades over the last year or so that really significantly change the way I live, not just work. Yes, work is included there, but now I can bring the power of GTD and MLO into every corner of my life, wherever I need it most. Tomorrow morning I need to take the garbage to the dump before leaving so bears don't break into my cottage. Instead of throwing notes madly around my cabin and hoping I'll remember to do it, I pull out my phone, from the lock screen tap the MLO microphone widget, tell it to bring the garbage and then add a context of @CottageDeparture, all in about 6 or 7 seconds. I always check my context's Departure context when I leave, so I know I won't forget anything. And I did that on the dock. I can't put a price on peace of mind like that. And the entire architecture of a brilliant mobile app, totally reliable sync functionality, and a great desktop client make it all possible.

Another example. I'm at the cottage and I want to do research for my Ph.D and and take care of a bunch of random tasks around the cottage. I look at all my active tasks and see the top Ph.D items I want to work on. I star them. Then in outline mode I go to the "Cottage tasks" folder. I then tap "zoom in" on that folder and flip to active tasks. The top tasks for the cottage, and nothing else, are sitting right there in computed order. I star the tasks I want to work on today  (maybe that order isn't perfect, but it's more than good enough for me to pick extremely quickly from) and then head over to the star view. I flip on "move" mode and begin dragging the tasks around in the order I intend to do them in, throwing the Ph.D. research right in the middle for a change of pace. I tap done. And because of the fantastic MLO widgets for android and configurable lock screens, the second I turn on my phone the list of tasks I have to do that day is sitting there in the lock screen in perfect order. I can mark a task as done my just tapping on the check box right from the lock screen. And I can know with certainty that I'm doing exactly what I ought to do with no stress, no hassle. I'm doing, I'm not thinking about doing.

MLO is really more of a system with various interface mechanisms. The interface mechanism when you're sitting at your desk is pretty potent. The potential in allowing access to that power literally anywhere is mind-blowing. MLO is getting updates. One particular interface mechanism, one which is pretty robust already, isn't getting updated at the moment. But if I had to choose where the development power was going, I'd MUCH rather it stay centred on bringing the power of the desktop platform to the mobile space until the two get closer to feature and user-performance parity.

Would an update on the update be good? Absolutely! But as a person who's doing a degree on open community interaction, I know first hand how much energy and time can be spent in hanging around the forums. They are fantastically good and useful, and I love spending time here myself. But when you're a designer and builder, it can be a tricky thing to manage well. Now, there's a medium between the two, and more information would be a good thing, even if it was just a brief update. But I don't think Andrey's sitting up in the clouds throwing software down from on high. :)

I genuinely think he cares deeply about his users, but he's probably deeply engaged or even obsessed with creating a brilliant new system and wants to stay in that mode. It takes an element of obsession and total commitment to create something as fantastically usable and rich as MLO. So many other systems look good and seem like they'll work, but when you push them hard when the pressure's on, they're not up to the task. MLO has all the right hooks and functionality to show that someone has tried living by the software and it works because they kept living by it and working on it until it finally worked to fit life.

A bold vision and obsession means that in the middle there can be very little to report. If you're trying to work through some obscure display mechanism that no one else understands the importance of, you want to keep hammering away at it until you get it instead of trying to explain some obscure programming problem to people who wouldn't necessarily see how it fits into the big picture. So I think an update would be appropriate, but the very quality and genius of the software sometimes demands periods of deep silence and toil as a new work emerges.

I'd love an update as well, but let's keep in mind that it's the brilliance of his creation that inspires such a passionate community. He's earned our trust for a while longer I think. :)

[robisme]

All this doesn't prevent to come and say "hello, I've heard you, but I'm working on iOs" in a 354 views thread, does it ?

We are not saying MLO is not useful, but developers attitude strikes us as strange.

By the way, I'd also like an huge enhancement on mobile platform (android).

But please Andrew, say us a quick hello.

[daniel sekera]

I guess I showed up testy today.  However everyone is entitled to an opinion so here is my opportunity to vent a small bit.  Should I offend anyone or they take this personally I'm stating right now it is not a personal attack on any one at all.

I can appreciate every ones point of view however I confess I cannot understand some.

I simply do not understand (and probably never will) this incessant "need" to have an update.  Just use what you have already.  seriously, how can it possibly make a difference in daily task doing knowing what the future of this software is going to be.  I bought it to use NOW!  I can either figure out a way to make what I have work or I can move along to something else.  the only thing that makes absolutely no difference what so ever in my life is the knowledge of what the software might do in the future.  I am not working in the future I am working in the here and now so all I need to know is what the software can do TODAY to make my life better or easier.  That is why I purchased it.  When I bought it there was absolutely zero guarantee that it would updated...ever...there is not any promise made or implied that anything in life that I purchase from anywhere or anyone is going to be improved, modified, will work for me in every possible scenario I might ever encounter, or even be around tomorrow....I might not even be here tomorrow how can I expect anything else will be.

What you have now either works or it doesn't work.  Everything that is being asked for honestly amounts to custom programming requests and all you are really doing is hoping enough other people think your special idea is so wonderful they will ask for it also and perhaps the developer will agree to implement it.  

180 views or 300 or 500 or whatever.  so what...all that means is time spent reading others complaints.  Probably the worst thing I did was sign up to receive an email every time someone adds a post because to me that means however many dozens of emails I have had to read from people complaining because they feel  unheard.

really,  write Apple or Microsoft and tell them what you would like to see in a future release, write a car company and tell them what you think their next car should do.  See what kind of response you get from that.  

I bought a product called motoactv earlier this year for my athletic training.  They finally just shut down their forum page after 42 pages of people asking for what seems like 100000 special little change requests so it can be absolutely perfect for THEM!  I wish it would do some of these things as well, however when I bought it I bought it for what it would do for me NOW!  TODAY!  I willingly spent the money for todays performance.  Should someone come out with something else I like better I'll simply switch to that

I bought MLO because of what it had when I bought it without any expectation of being able to actually contact the developer and have the developer custom program for me.  What I found instead was a company (or person) that actually does listen to its customers requests and actually does try to see the value in the requests and actually does try to implement some of them and for that he receives many dozens of posts basically telling him he is not working hard enough or fast enough or doesn't care.  Everyone, myself included thinks it is so very easy to make the software do this or that yet none of us has actually taken the time to develop our own product and bring it to market.  I wonder why that is.....

enough said my rant is over and I think I am going to go change my settings to stop sending me emails when people respond because I'm sure I am going to get flamed over this one but I DON'T CARE!  I have work to do and my opinion is no less valuable than anyone else.  Just stop worrying about what may happen someday maybe in the future if the stars align and the planets spin backwards and world peace is declared and instead devote your time and thought power to actually learning how to use what you already have.  You might just find it works pretty damn well which coincidentally enough might actually be the reason you decided to buy it in the first place..imagine that.

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[Holmes245]

Daniel, those are great points. We need to appreciate what we have from Andrey because MLO v.3 for Windows still rocks compared to most other personal task managers in my opinion. I would rather he take the time and not feel pressured to kick it out fast. When one steps back and looks at what he does offer on platforms, it's amazing because I really am hard-pressed to find anything from a small company like his (that isn't Microsoft or Apple) that still has offerings on several platforms.

Also, since you mentioned forums, he's being gracious enough to offer a forum here at all. I know of two or three developers who don't for that very reason. As CTenorman mentioned earlier, Andrey's busy working on it. I would rather he take more time and give us a more solid product than if it had been rushed. Besides, he did make a comment a few days ago in response to someone that he was busy working on it. I trust him. It'll come so like Daniel, CTenorman and some others said, I think we just need to be content with when Andrey feels comfortable giving an update. I'm sure there's some reason we haven't heard.

Anyway, good thoughts Daniel.

By the way, yeah, getting an email on every post would be too much for me. Change your settings. lol

Joel

[Richard Collings]

Thanks for an interesting and useful post.   As somebody who is just using Windows MLO, I also feel frustrated at the lack of news about Version 4  (I would kill for the ability to open multiple windows on the same outline so I can drag and drop stuff from my inbox to my outline and <whisper> then there is the ‘calendar’ feature </whisper>

 

But,  there are several factors which mean that I won’t be looking anywhere else:

·        I can see that having good versions for mobile platforms is essential to the long term survival of MLO

·        I am shortly going to take the plunge and get myself a smartphone (Samsung S3) so that I can start doing the sort of things that you are talking about below – which will be just great (and I suspect that once I get this, then I will want the same features there as I have in the Windows version).

·        I think Andrey covers an enormous amount of ground with the software he and his small team develop and its all high quality/robust stuff – and I wouldn’t want it any other way

·        I am confident that Andrey is listening even if he isn’t commenting

 

Richard

 

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[David R.]

I'm having a little bit of trouble with this thread.

First of all, I only looked in the thread because it mentioned a version 4.0 and I hadn't heard anything about that.  I thought I was going to see a thread created by Andrey and I certainly didn't think that my "view" would be counted as yet another user impatient for a new version.

Granted, I don't have the time to read details of every message here, but I scanned pretty closely and I didn't see a single message asking for a specific feature.  Is everybody here asking for a new version just to have a new version number?

I'm probably overly defensive because I have spent many years toiling in a small development shop and I know of the demands, so I'm sorry if I'm offending anybody.  I will plead, though, that nobody try to rush a new release just for the sake of having one.  When a developer rushes, the little tiny bugs that kill companies lay their eggs and start to hatch.

David

[Holmes245]

David, no offense (you are correct though) but I would recommend reading the thread before you post. It's been beaten to death and restating what's already been discussed only opens it up again. I think we're good on this.

Joel

[pottster]

Andrey's roadmap for 4.0 is here https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mylifeorganized/HtsjfdVatbs/discussion. This was published September last year so not really any "rushing" going on which is sort of the point of the thread. The fact that you are one of many who viewed the thread just shows the level of interest in the next version of MLO desktop. It's not really about being patient or impatient (a point which is lost on a lot people here) it's about the courtesy to users of raising expectation and then not providing even a very brief update on progress which, I suspect, would keep almost everybody happy. It's a five minute job to do that. Not doing so is hard to understand and risks alienating (some) of the loyal user base. Strange decision by Andrey which ever way you look at it.

[daniel sekera]

(a point which is lost on a lot people here)?

well then please explain since you are obviously so much more advanced. oh wait by asking that probably means it is lost on me as well........

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[pottster]

I'd love to respond but the sign says "Don't Feed The Trolls". Sorry about that.

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[Lisa Stroyan]

Okay everyone, as one of the group moderators I'd like to ask that this be taken off list. I think everything to say has been said. Please refrain from posting more on this topic and let's get back to talking about how we most effectively use MLO as it is now.

Thanks!

[daniel sekera]

no thats ok

not trying to necessarily provoke any response and you can call me troll anytime you want.  doesn't hurt my feelings, only words.  but comments do pique my curiosity.

you'll throw casual comments out about "lazy programming" and the like so it kind of lends itself to a perception that you are an acknowledged expert on these subjects so i figured I would ask is all

since I did wrote a post while I was in a testy mood and my post was definitely from the perspective of not understanding the need to have updates I was very upfront in stating that I did not have the understanding

so with your post I thought there it is exactly....a point was lost on me....so I simply figured I would ask for clarification and then perhaps I would understand the "point"

I purchased the software in 2007 so I definitely qualify as one of the long term users so it would only make sense that I feel I am missing something with not understanding the focus on the magical 4.0 version.

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[daniel sekera]

hmmm was writing my response before I read this message.

I'm just curious is all

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Lisa Stroyan <lstr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay everyone, as one of the group moderators I'd like to ask that this be taken off list. I think everything to say has been said. Please refrain from posting more on this topic and let's get back to talking about how we most effectively use MLO as it is now.

Thanks!

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[pottster]

Thanks Lisa. Agree 100%.