GOLDGATE!!! "GLENN BECK WOULDN'T LIE TO ME,WOULD HE?"
cop welfare
Right-wing talkers go for the gold
By: Kenneth P. Vogel
December 5, 2009 06:42 AM EST
For years a certain strain of conservative thought has held that there
was one sure hedge against economic depression, civil disorder and
liberal rule – gold. Now that belief has led to a kind of harmonic
convergence between ideology and commerce.
Anyone tuning in to conservative talk radio or Fox News’s Bill
O’Reilly and Glenn Beck shows is bombarded by commercials for gold,
mainly in the form of collectible coins, with announcers intoning that
inflation and deficits caused by big government spending are devaluing
the dollar and making gold the best investment money can buy.
The dire tone sounded in the ads often echo the occasionally
apocalyptic economic forecasts of the shows’ hosts, many of whom have
endorsement contracts with the gold retailers, appear in their ads, or
have had their executives as guests to trash the economic course set
by President Barack Obama and congressional Democrats, and to preach
the attractions of gold.
“There’s a natural synergy between conservative talk radio listeners
and gold,” said Michael Smerconish, a Philadelphia-based conservative-
leaning talk show host who signed a deal to endorse Goldline
International, a Santa Monica, Calif.-based retailer when his show
entered syndication in January.
And it’s become an increasingly profitable synergy for everyone
involved - the retailers, the networks and an array of hosts including
O’Reilly and Beck, as well as radio talkers Mark Levin, Michael
Savage, Laura Ingraham, Dennis Miller, Fred Thompson and G. Gordon
Liddy.
This year, Goldline boasted it had become “the exclusive gold and
precious metals company” of both Levin’s show and the one hosted by
Thompson. Other Goldline endorsers include Beck, Ingraham, Miller and
Lars Larson.
The stable of pitchmen at Rosland includes O’Reilly and fellow Fox
News host Brian Kilmeade, Judge-turned-talker Andrew Napolitano and
Liddy, among others.
Since they all appear to view the future of the U.S. economy under
Obama as at best doubtful and at worst on the verge of catastrophe,
there is little difference between the views they express during their
shows and the endorsing they do during commercial breaks.
Pitching for gold retailer Rosland Capital, O’Reilly declares the
dollar “under attack at home, from a Fed that’s printing paper money
like it has no value, and from China, whose actions are tipping the
balance of the global currency system away from the U.S. dollar”
Beck, who has taken to comparing the state of the U.S. economy to that
of modern day Zimbabwe or pre-Hitler Germany, has been urging his
viewers to invest in gold, and bragging about his own gold investments
since at least last year.
“I know that you’ve been listening and watching my shows,” he said in
a promo incorporated into a “Beck talks” video on his website.
“If you’ve been watching for any length of time, and you still haven’t
looked into buying gold, what’s wrong with you? I was going to say
‘are you just a reporter for the New York Times?’ but I don’t think
they actually watch. They just write about it.
“I think you’re nuts. When the system eventually collapses, and the
government comes with guns and confiscates, you know, everything in
your home and all your possessions, and then you fight off the raving
mad cannibalistic crowds that Ted Turner talked about, don’t come
crying to me. I told you: get gold.”
But Beck has recently come under fire from liberals alleging a
conflict of interest. The criticism spiked after he used one of his
trademark blackboard illustrations to provide tips for weathering “the
three scenarios that we could be facing: recession, depression or
collapse.” In the case of a total collapse of the economic system, he
recommended that his viewers construct “fruit cellars” and rely on
what he called “the three G system. It’s God, gold and guns.”
The Democrat-aligned watchdog group Media Matters asserted the segment
was a “reward” to his gold advertisers, while liberal MSNBC host Keith
Olbermann charged that Beck is “in it for the money. He keeps trying
to sell people gold, largely because a disproportionate number of his
advertisers sell people gold.”
Peter Epstein, president of Merit Financial Services, which advertises
on Beck’s show, says gold retailers expect favorable coverage from
commentators on whose shows they pay to advertise. “You pay anybody on
any network and they say what you pay them to say,” said Epstein.
“They’re bought and sold.”
Beck, who through a publicist declined to comment for this story,
addressed the Media Matters allegation on his Thursday show, saying
“So, I shouldn’t make money?” And he made the point that he touted
gold before he became a Goldline endorser, and urges viewers to study
and pray before investing in it.
In fact, most of the gold ads in heavy circulation urge consumers to
do careful research before investing in it and to consider it as only
part of a diversified portfolio. But the ads and many of the shows on
which they air also play on, and feed, deep-seated conservative fears
that reckless government monetary policy could render the dollar
worthless, leaving gold as the only valid currency of the realm, and
potentially enticing the U.S. government to seize most private gold
supplies as President Franklin Delano Roosevelt did in 1933.
“It used to be that the right had an affinity for gold because gold
was the money of the British Empire and the British Empire was the
strongest empire in the world, and conservatives in the old days
identified with people in authority, the people who were more upper
class,” said Michael Kazin, a Georgetown University history professor
whose biography of William Jennings Bryan details the early debate
over whether the U.S. should remain on the gold standard.
When Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard, Kazin said
conservatives began embracing gold in a more populist way – as
something “not subject to the whims or the depredations of government
or central banks, which are seen by (populists) on the right and the
left as involved in conspiracies to help their friends.”
As Smerconish put it to POLITICO, “Those who are most concerned about
government growth are increasingly dubious about the value of a dollar
and look at gold as something they can see, feel, touch, appreciate.”
Financial analysts, investment advisors and precious metal experts
warn that the collectibles market can be among the riskiest ways to
invest in gold, and some blame aggressive advertising and the
boosterism on conservative shows for helping push nervous investors
into bad deals.
“This rich advertising campaign that has sprung up in the last year
has almost politicized gold and certainly has estranged it from what
gold investing is all about,” said Jon Nadler, a prominent Montreal-
based gold analyst for the precious metals dealer Kitco.
Nadler – who says gold can be a very effective “asset allocation
device, saving vehicle and long-term prudent insurance position” –
fled communist Romania in 1972 with gold ducat coins hidden in his
clothing, later using the coins to help pay for his son’s Ivy League
education.
But anyone interested in buying gold primarily as an investment
vehicle would be wise to avoid many of the big-advertising American
gold coin retailers, because they typically sell coins for many times
the value of the gold they contain, according to Nadler and Dennis
Gartman, editor of an eponymous financial news service.
Nadler’s firm, which does not advertise on U.S. television, sells
bullion that it can either store for, or send to, consumers, while
Gartman recommended investors buy the gold traded fund on the New York
Stock Exchange, which invests in physical bullion – but does not
provide it to buyers – and is intended to track the price of gold.
Other funds invest in gold mining and production companies, and gold-
intensive manufacturing.
Gartman said that many of the coin-selling firms that have increased
their television advertising this year as the price of gold has soared
(which stood near a record $1,200-an-ounce at the end of last week),
have a markup “so egregiously high the only thing you can call them is
shysters.”
Goldline, whose representatives did not respond to several interview
requests, advertises on CNN, as have some of its competitors. The
market for gold transcends political ideology, according to
conservative radio talker Mark Levin, another Goldline endorser.
“I don’t think only conservatives want to diversify,” Levin told
POLITICO. “With the spending and the deficits and so forth,
diversification is a smart thing, if it’s done wisely.”
But the retailers have nearly saturated some Fox shows, particularly
Beck’s ratings juggernaut, which this summer maintained a handful of
gold advertisers – including Goldline, Rosland Capital, Superior Gold
Group and Merit Financial – even as dozens of other advertisers joined
a boycott after Beck called Obama “a racist.”
“I could care less what people think of him,” Merit’s Epstein said of
Beck. “We advertise on Fox because it makes the phone ring.”
Though Epstein’s firm has advertised on CNN, he said gold resonates
more with Fox’s viewers “because it’s the angry white man audience -
it’s the conservative audience. … They are distrustful of the
government, of the regime.”
Bill Haynes, president of CMI Gold & Silver, a Phoenix-based precious
metal dealer believes prominent endorsers “are absolutely doing a
disservice to their viewers, listeners, fans and supporters. There’s a
little bit of paranoia in all of us who like gold – a lot of paranoia
in some people, a little bit in all of us – and they pander to people
who are really afraid.”
The Ripoff Report, a controversial website on which consumers can file
anonymous posts alleging mistreatment at the hands of businesses,
contains dozens of complaints filed since the beginning of last year
against a handful of gold retailers alleging deceptively high premiums
and misleading marketing techniques, some of which have prompted
rebuttals from the companies themselves.
In one such complaint, Mary Sisak of New Castle, Pa., wrote in August
that she contacted Goldline because she saw a television ad featuring
Beck, and online endorsements from Levin and Thompson. After spending
$5,000 on Swiss Francs, Mary said she learned she could have purchased
the same number of coins for $1,600 less.
“How could I be mislead by Glenn Beck, Fred Thompson and Marvin [sic]
Levin?" she wrote.
© 2009 Capitol News Company, LLC
FD HIDDEN DIV
edi...@netpath.net
> For years a certain strain of conservative thought has held that there
> was one sure hedge against economic depression, civil disorder and
> liberal rule – gold.
Invest in the real precious metal - LEAD. It was .22 ammo that was
the barter money of the 1930s "Great" Depression - because it could
get you food or defend you.
Ammo prices have consistently risen - even before Obama got elected.
http://www.Internet-Gun-Show.com - your source for hard-to-find stuff!
Chaos out of Order
Limbaugh or any other pundit on the air. I blame it on laziness or
the need to have one's false impressions reinforced. Anyone who has
done any research on the matter can see that most of these pundits lie
and bend the truth to fit their agendas. Why go to liars for
information unless you want to be lied to or are unaware of being lied
to. In either case, I blame the believers for allowing themselves to
be duped.
Christopher Helms
It's no surprise that conservative snake oil salesmen are shilling
gold to people who think the world is about to end, since
conservatives spend so much time telling people that the world is
about to end. This actually dovetails nicely with the corporate belief
that human beings are simply a resource to be strip mined by any means
available. "Scare the hell out of 'em and then sell 'em the cure" is a
common sales technique. Buy identity theft coverage or your life will
be destroyed. Buy Listerine or Gingivitis will make all your teeth
fall out. You don't want your baby to be killed on the road, do you?
Then buy Michelin tires. Or, from the 50's, the Russians could nuke us
at any moment. You don't want to die in a nuclear holocaust, do you?
Better buy a bomb shelter. They revised that one, after a fashion,
after 9/11.
HH&C
>
> Right-wing talkers go for the gold
> By: Kenneth P. Vogel
> December 5, 2009 06:42 AM EST
>
> For years a certain strain of conservative thought has held that there
> was one sure hedge against economic depression, civil disorder and
> liberal rule – gold. Now that belief has led to a kind of harmonic
> convergence between ideology and commerce.
>
> Anyone tuning in to conservative talk radio or Fox News’s Bill
> O’Reilly and Glenn Beck shows is bombarded by commercials for gold,
> mainly in the form of collectible coins, with announcers intoning that
> inflation and deficits caused by big government spending are devaluing
> the dollar and making gold the best investment money can buy.
You know, back whe we talked survivalism on this newsgroup, we talked
a lot about gold. Even the revered Winston talked about gold. Some
people wanted to have gold. Some people said you cannot eat gold, so
store food. Some people said you can't haul a bunch of food with you
when you are fleeing (name your disaster or political repression), so
it is a good idea to have both. You can buy things with gold that it
would be hard to buy with a wheelbarrow full of canned chili and
beans... say safe passage for you and your family across borders like
the jews in Nazi Germany.
Yes, we had lively discussions.
But now that you can attack Glenn Beck over gold, we learn that the
economy is peachy and there is no reason to fear economic collaps, and
there is no reason for Glenn to fear monger or promote gold. Glenn is
a bad person. Despite that Glenn has been promoting food storage
longer than he has been promoting gold.
So at the end of the day, you guys flip flop on your "core belief"
that the economy is in the toilet just so you can attack Glenn Beck.
Welp, we already knew that about you.
Fred B. Brown
"Chaos out of Order" <goof...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3723bc3f-cd13-44d4...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
You want to hear REAL liars, listen to Barak Obama, Nancy Pelosi
and Harry Reid. I don't hear that red telephone on Beck's desk ringing
with a call from the White House to correct anything Beck says.
Where is the transparency Obama PROMISED? Where is the open debate
on legislation on CNN Obama PROMISED? Will the Health Care bill be
posted on the internet for 72 hours as PROMISED by Obama? Or will
Harry Reid jam it through on Christmas Eve?
Wikking
Yet strangely, you supported a war that will ultimately cost the US
taxpayer $3 trillion, saw millions of jobs leave the country, saw the
worst terror attacks in US history because your party was asleep at
the switch, saw "Bush's Base" consume themselves, their employees, the
stockholders with hubris and avarice while sending the entire economy
down the U-bend. So now you're squealing like stuck pigs because the
Dems have the temerity to try and do something for the people to take
it back to what it was before it was a Neocon paradise?
--
}(:
It is clear that the "Birthers", "Teabaggers", politicians and media
hosts or pundits that purvey messages of resistance, insurrection and
don't want their kids to go to school to hear the words of the POTUS
have become the dupes and stooges of foreign intelligence services
that wish to see the US destabilized by a bunch of fools - they must
be laughing their heads off at these wingnuts who are so ready to be
their pawns...
Fred B. Brown
"HH&C" <hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0c78cdb5-d20a-46f1...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 18, 9:45 pm, cop welfare <cop.welf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=5D43B4E3-18FE-70B2-A8DE8D...
>
> Right-wing talkers go for the gold
> By: Kenneth P. Vogel
> December 5, 2009 06:42 AM EST
>
> For years a certain strain of conservative thought has held that there
> was one sure hedge against economic depression, civil disorder and
> convergence between ideology and commerce.
>
> O�Reilly and Glenn Beck shows is bombarded by commercials for gold,
> mainly in the form of collectible coins, with announcers intoning that
> inflation and deficits caused by big government spending are devaluing
> the dollar and making gold the best investment money can buy.
You know, back whe we talked survivalism on this newsgroup, we talked
a lot about gold. Even the revered Winston talked about gold. Some
people wanted to have gold. Some people said you cannot eat gold, so
store food. Some people said you can't haul a bunch of food with you
when you are fleeing (name your disaster or political repression), so
it is a good idea to have both. You can buy things with gold that it
would be hard to buy with a wheelbarrow full of canned chili and
beans... say safe passage for you and your family across borders like
the jews in Nazi Germany.
Yes, we had lively discussions.
But now that you can attack Glenn Beck over gold, we learn that the
economy is peachy and there is no reason to fear economic collaps, and
there is no reason for Glenn to fear monger or promote gold. Glenn is
a bad person. Despite that Glenn has been promoting food storage
longer than he has been promoting gold.
So at the end of the day, you guys flip flop on your "core belief"
that the economy is in the toilet just so you can attack Glenn Beck.
Welp, we already knew that about you.
The Left attacks anyone who opposes them to try and discredit them
anyway they can. They don't refute what Beck, O'Reilly or Limbaugh
say, they attack them for saying it. Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, and now
Andrew Breitbart's www.biggovernment.com and Michelle Malkin's
www.michellemalkin.com web-sites are exposing the corrupt Left
and the corrupt Obama administration and the Left does not like it.
cop welfare
>
> - Show quoted text -
yer a dummy.
nobody says the economy is peachy.
nobody as far as i can see is saying that it is completely wrong to
have gold.
the view i have come around to in the last couple of days is that beck
represents a crooked business practise firm.
there are companies that sell gold and there are companies that sell
gold.
you have to pay a premium when you buy gold or other metals, a price
over the market contentent of the coin or whatever.
what is a fair premium to pay.
35% ?
http://www.thepissedoffconsumer.com/goldline.com/view-details.html
Consumer Complaints Directory
Goldline.com
Submitted Byh.maloneVisited0Add to this complaintTell
SomeonePrintReportFedex money for 100 ounces of silver @10.36/ounce
called up goldline.com after 35 days complained about no delivery They
explained the process was incomplete due to their error they said the
price was $12.24/ounce But they were totally out of what i ordered
please wait 10 days for your money ba...@10.36/ounce So remember this
company has no consumer protection nor satisifaction Santa monica
based operation They claim they are monitored by a reputable outfit So
i did ask for their name and phone # of their monitor Of course they
refused to release that info Complaint Follow Ups (4)Will heed
warningbyanother investor, December 16, 2009 I've read some really bad
reviews on Goldline.com. In fact I was just curious and signed up
online to get information, not a phone call. I get a call, and the
person explains to me about some stuff, but then starts to ask me what
I had in my investments, how much, how much my wife had, etc... I made
up some numbers, but was curious about all the inquisitioning even
before getting the kit or even agreeing to invest. On the safe side,
I'll be trashing it even if it gets to me, which I doubt.
cop welfare
details.html
The Pissed Off Consumer!, The best consumer product reviews and
complaints site online. Been scammed, cheated, received terrible
service or something similar ? Post your complaint and share opinion
feedback with site members about products or services. Get the word
out today and have your voice heard!
Consumer Complaints Directory
Goldline.com
Submitted Byh.maloneVisited0Add to this complaintTell
SomeonePrintReportFedex money for 100 ounces of silver @10.36/ounce
called up goldline.com after 35 days complained about no delivery They
explained the process was incomplete due to their error they said the
price was $12.24/ounce But they were totally out of what i ordered
please wait 10 days for your money ba...@10.36/ounce So remember this
company has no consumer protection nor satisifaction Santa monica
based operation They claim they are monitored by a reputable outfit So
i did ask for their name and phone # of their monitor Of course they
refused to release that info Complaint Follow Ups (4)Will heed
warningbyanother investor, December 16, 2009 I've read some really bad
reviews on Goldline.com. In fact I was just curious and signed up
online to get information, not a phone call. I get a call, and the
person explains to me about some stuff, but then starts to ask me what
I had in my investments, how much, how much my wife had, etc... I made
up some numbers, but was curious about all the inquisitioning even
before getting the kit or even agreeing to invest. On the safe side,
I'll be trashing it even if it gets to me, which I doubt.
Report
investorbyscott, November 20, 2009 Thanks folks for the heads up! I
too was interested and emailed for the investor information kit,
expected in 3-4 days. I was surprised to get a call from a sales rep
the next day..I told him, I found it strange that he calls before I
even got the kit to examine and i asked if i'm now to expect high
pressure sales? He backed off.. still no kit, will trash it when
comes . Thanks again !
Report
Ms.byEve, September 9, 2009 I contacted Goldline in Sept 2009 to
inquire about buying gold. The sales man quoted me a 35% fee to buy
gold, which is claimed was standard in the industry. He said he was
doing me a favor by charging the fees up front. I contacted another
gold dealer and they quoted me ~1.5% fee. I have not purchased gold
yet, because Goldline has me very concerned about fraud. Please
research before making any purchases througt goldline.com.
Report
investorbyJim Headrick, July 15, 2009 After reading some of the many
complaints concerning Goldline, I have decided to not purchase any
product from them. I want to thank the previous "victims" for possibly
saving me some money and for their kindness in sharing their story
with other would-be investors.
-
Kris Baker
"Fred B. Brown" <fredb...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:4b2cfd06$0$256$bb4e...@newscene.com...
>
>
> You want to hear REAL liars, listen to Barak
Who?
Kris Baker
>
>
> But now that you can attack Glenn Beck over gold, we learn that the
> a bad person. Despite that Glenn has been promoting food storage
> longer than he has been promoting gold.
Please. Buy gold from Goldline.
Realize you're paying for coinage, not pure gold. Coinage and
designs do not increase in value.
AND....when you want to sell the gold back (per your contract),
you have to pay a 30-40% commission.....on a price based ONLY
on the price of gold. Not on the "value" of the "coinage".
Please. Do what Beck says. And keep putting all that food
storage in your home. The first place it'll be destroyed in.
http://usgoldlinescampetition.blogspot.com/2008/05/us-goldline-class-action-lawsuit.html
Kris
Kris Baker
http://jontaplin.com/2009/10/23/the-gold-scam-fear-merchants/
HH&C
> "Fred B. Brown" <fredbbr...@nowhere.com> wrote in messagenews:4b2d0005$0$273$bb4e...@newscene.com...
>
> Kris
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that Goldline had a corner on the gold
market. My mistake.
When did the US Mint quit selling gold?
HH&C
So it still sucks, the dollar keeps losing value against all other
currencies, and the USA economy could collapse, bringing down all
other economies with it?
No?
> nobody as far as i can see is saying that it is completely wrong to
> have gold.
Partially wrong?
> the view i have come around to in the last couple of days is that beck
> represents a crooked business practise firm.
The Franklin mint? The Danbury mint? The US Mint?
> there are companies that sell gold and there are companies that sell
> gold.
Hell, pawn shops sell gold.
> you have to pay a premium when you buy gold or other metals, a price
> over the market contentent of the coin or whatever.
> what is a fair premium to pay.
> 35% ?
I recall a gold seller making 3% over spot. And the Governor made 6%
for the pleasure of allowing him to do business.
One guy does the work, the other guy gets twice as much.
I don't remember you complaining.
> http://www.thepissedoffconsumer.com/goldline.com/view-details.html
>
> Consumer Complaints Directory
> Goldline.com
> Submitted Byh.maloneVisited0Add to this complaintTell
> SomeonePrintReportFedex money for 100 ounces of silver @10.36/ounce
> called up goldline.com after 35 days complained about no delivery They
> explained the process was incomplete due to their error they said the
> price was $12.24/ounce But they were totally out of what i ordered
> please wait 10 days for your money b...@10.36/ounce So remember this
> company has no consumer protection nor satisifaction Santa monica
> based operation They claim they are monitored by a reputable outfit So
> i did ask for their name and phone # of their monitor Of course they
> refused to release that info Complaint Follow Ups (4)Will heed
> warningbyanother investor, December 16, 2009 I've read some really bad
> reviews on Goldline.com. In fact I was just curious and signed up
> online to get information, not a phone call. I get a call, and the
> person explains to me about some stuff, but then starts to ask me what
> I had in my investments, how much, how much my wife had, etc... I made
> up some numbers, but was curious about all the inquisitioning even
> before getting the kit or even agreeing to invest. On the safe side,
> I'll be trashing it even if it gets to me, which I doubt.- Hide quoted text -
Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:
> nobody says the economy is peachy.
Yes, Gummer said the economy is peachy.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Republican, Suffering Builds Character
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HH&C
> try this again...http://www.thepissedoffconsumer.com/goldline.com/view-
> details.html
> The Pissed Off Consumer!, The best consumer product reviews and
> complaints site online. Been scammed, cheated, received terrible
> service or something similar ? Post your complaint and share opinion
> feedback with site members about products or services. Get the word
> out today and have your voice heard!
>
> Consumer Complaints Directory
> Goldline.com
> Submitted Byh.maloneVisited0Add to this complaintTell
> SomeonePrintReportFedex money for 100 ounces of silver @10.36/ounce
> called up goldline.com after 35 days complained about no delivery They
> explained the process was incomplete due to their error they said the
> price was $12.24/ounce But they were totally out of what i ordered
I could say the same thing about 380 ACP and 9mm. It's in very high
supply, but the demand is far, far greater.
Who should I complain about? Federal? Winchester/Olin? Remington?
CCI? PMC? Wolf?
Observer
Periodically. Generally when the price/demand spikes.
http://goldandsilverblog.com/us-mint-suspends-production-of-more-gold-and-silver-coins/
__
The last official act of any government is the looting of the nation.
PB
Don't you work for a corporation ? WTF ? It's a neutral legal
framework.
What exactly do you propose replacing corporations with ?
Have you been listening to too much Glenn Beck ? George Noury ? other
conspiracy mongers ?
I don't watch so i have no idea what you're talking about.
Oh, and I still haven't gotten an answer to my question, maybe because
it doesn't fit your 2-D view of the world.
If corporations are all so evil, maybe you should get another job as
an activist for an NGO. Oh, right, the cut in pay and all. Darn that
inconvenient truth. Pro sports TV pays pretty well too, are they
corporate ? The NFL ? Nah, couldn't be.
Wait, that's right, you're really a baseball fanatic, and MLB is the
only other industry that is exempt from anti-trust legislation in
America isn't it ? Irony.
Do as I say, not as I do, another BS hypocrite. You should run for
office. In the meantime, you can send me your overpaid ludicrous
corporate cheque for Xmas. You're apparently the mother of all court
jesters masquerading as a trojan horse.
A little reading for you. You're not the only one who can take things
personally.
Are we gonna see this on the show ? Bring in GE guys to discuss cap
and trade vs carbon taxes ? No ? GE doesn't stand to gain lots of
money from cap and trade ? Nah, couldn't be. That industrial pigpen
you work for has been treating the atmosphere like a carbon dump for
decades. Obama's subtle bailout. NBC's green logo. Nice, genius. Not
too much about East Anglia CRU emails either I noticed ? Might not be
good for ratings. Too busy pandering to smug liberal audiences for
that i guess. Why bother being a journalist and asking honest
questions when you have Tiger Woods cartoons ?
And, you made fun of Chris Wallace ? That's too rich, hysterical. He's
a real journalist, while you're an activist in a funhouse echo
chamber. Too funny.
Yale Professor William D. Nordhaus’s keynote address prepared for an
international meeting, Climate Change: Global Risks, Challenges, and
Decisions, in Copenhagen, in March 2009.
CARBON TAX CENTER ANALYSIS
CTC regards carbon taxes as superior to carbon cap-and-trade systems
for six fundamental reasons:
1. Carbon taxes will lend predictability to energy prices, whereas
cap-and-trade systems will aggravate the price volatility that
historically has discouraged investments in less carbon-intensive
electricity generation, carbon-reducing energy efficiency and carbon-
replacing renewable energy.
2. Carbon taxes can be implemented much sooner than complex cap-and-
trade systems. Because of the urgency of the climate crisis, we do not
have the luxury of waiting while the myriad details of a cap-and-trade
system are resolved through lengthy negotiations.
3. Carbon taxes are transparent and easily understandable, making
them more likely to elicit the necessary public support than an opaque
and difficult to understand cap-and-trade system.
4. Carbon taxes can be implemented with far less opportunity for
manipulation by special interests, while a cap-and-trade system’s
complexity opens it to exploitation by special interests and perverse
incentives that can undermine public confidence and undercut its
effectiveness.
5. Carbon taxes address emissions of carbon from every sector,
whereas some cap-and-trade systems discussed to date have only
targeted the electricity industry, which accounts for less than 40% of
emissions.
6. Carbon tax revenues would most likely be returned to the public
through dividends or progressive tax-shifting, while the costs of cap-
and-trade systems are likely to become a hidden tax as dollars flow to
market participants, lawyers and consultants.
Christopher Helms
I don't care what you think and I have no interest in correcting your
errors.
cop welfare
>
> - Show quoted text -
'i don't care what you think and I have no interest in correcting
your
errors.' - last words of marie antoinette
actually, you've no reply because you were nailed.
otherwise you'd be blathering your ass off as usual.
but i don't REALLY know.
hangover maybe.
PB
Why reply then ?
You're a fraudulent court jester masquerading as a trojan horse.
An anti-corporate corporate whore.
PB
Never challenge this man, he's not used to it, and he gets very very
angry when you ask him questions he can't answer.
HH&C
> Gold "investing" for dummies:
>
> http://jontaplin.com/2009/10/23/the-gold-scam-fear-merchants/
I look at gold as "panic" insurance. Have enough to bribe someone to
do something illegal, like let you out of the country instead of
marching you in to an oven. That kind of thing. I don't look at gold
as any kind of investment. I don't care much if the price goes up or
down. You either have it or you don't.
cop welfare
this thing seems hard to follow for some ppl.
reminds me of the vietnam war when everyone (so they say) got sucked
into whether it was right or wrong and ignored the possibility that it
was being grossly mis-managed.
the brass got a pass.
so to speak.
gold, on the other hand, is quite fine, but how much can you get for
it if you sell back to the dealer at the same world price?
the difference is called the premium.
there are premiums and there are premiums.
some premiums are excessive.
i believe this is called. ...
"screwing the public".
am i right or wrong?
HH&C
>
> > It's incredible that people believe in idiots like Beck or O'Reilly or
> > Limbaugh or any other pundit on the air. I blame it on laziness or
> > the need to have one's false impressions reinforced. Anyone who has
> > done any research on the matter can see that most of these pundits lie
> > and bend the truth to fit their agendas. Why go to liars for
> > information unless you want to be lied to or are unaware of being lied
> > to. In either case, I blame the believers for allowing themselves to
> > be duped.
>
> It's no surprise that conservative snake oil salesmen are shilling
> gold to people who think the world is about to end, since
> conservatives spend so much time telling people that the world is
> about to end.
Yep, that Global Warming, err, ahh, Climate Change is going to get us
all. All those conservatives out there pushing AGW. Heh!
> This actually dovetails nicely with the corporate belief
> that human beings are simply a resource to be strip mined by any means
> available.
Yep. Equal Rights made its greatest advancements under Republicans.
> "Scare the hell out of 'em and then sell 'em the cure" is a
> common sales technique.
TARP? Universal Healthcare? CAP & Tax?
Yep, all them conservatives out there scaring people.
> Buy identity theft coverage or your life will
> be destroyed. Buy Listerine or Gingivitis will make all your teeth
> fall out. You don't want your baby to be killed on the road, do you?
> Then buy Michelin tires. Or, from the 50's, the Russians could nuke us
> at any moment. You don't want to die in a nuclear holocaust, do you?
> Better buy a bomb shelter. They revised that one, after a fashion,
> after 9/11.
Kindly post your SSN, dumbass.
PB
My errors ? I', guessing you're the kind of guy who is always right
right ? Never wrong ? Always others making errors ?
And, dude, you replied to me at 4:00 am, if you don't care, why
reply ?
Strabo
1. A dealer's charge for selling or buying gold is typically the
spot price of gold plus a fee. Or the dealer might use his knowledge
of the market instead of the spot price. Either way his charge
competes with the charges of other dealers so if he wants the
business he'll have to charge accordingly.
2. The "public" is an abstraction, in this context its a nonsense
term. The "public" can't buy or sell anything. The individual
must know the value of what he wants to accomplish and how to
do it.
> am i right or wrong?
>
You don't know the basics of barter or trade or how to
determine value. This is wrong. But, you're a collectivist.
Collectivists are always wrong.
cop welfare
>
> - Show quoted text -
"You don't know the basics of barter or trade or how to
determine value. This is wrong. But, you're a collectivist.
Collectivists are always wrong. " - drank the kool-aid
and you're saying there's no possible way that dishonesty can occur
because the buyer paid a price determined by the market ie his
stupidity and the seller's guile.
and since you say i'm a collectivist or whatever i have to be wrong so
i'm wrong.
well, i say you are full of shit.
something is wrong with you.
Strabo
Caveat emptor.
HH&C
> On Dec 23, 7:05 pm, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 19, 1:13 pm, "Kris Baker" <parallelcoo...@ggmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Gold "investing" for dummies:
>
> > >http://jontaplin.com/2009/10/23/the-gold-scam-fear-merchants/
>
> > I look at gold as "panic" insurance. Have enough to bribe someone to
> > do something illegal, like let you out of the country instead of
> > marching you in to an oven. That kind of thing. I don't look at gold
> > as any kind of investment. I don't care much if the price goes up or
> > down. You either have it or you don't.
>
> this thing seems hard to follow for some ppl.
Shouldn't be.
> reminds me of the vietnam war when everyone (so they say) got sucked
> into whether it was right or wrong and ignored the possibility that it
> was being grossly mis-managed.
It was wrong. It was wrong for the north vietnamese, aided by China,
to wage war on the south.
They should have done it peacefully, like our own country is doing.
> the brass got a pass.
The brass follow orders. The problem was the rules of engagement
given to the brass by the people who failed at a political solution.
They got a lot of Americans killed.
> so to speak.
Sure.
> gold, on the other hand, is quite fine, but how much can you get for
> it if you sell back to the dealer at the same world price?
Could care less. You're still acting like it is in your 401K or
something, after having been told what it was for.
> the difference is called the premium.
> there are premiums and there are premiums.
> some premiums are excessive.
> i believe this is called. ...
> "screwing the public".
> am i right or wrong?
So go somewhere else and do business.
HH&C
Hmmmm? Wrong.
> You don't know the basics of barter or trade or how to
> determine value. This is wrong. But, you're a collectivist.
> Collectivists are always wrong.
It's nothing like buying a car. Once the deal is struck and you got
$4,935.00 off the sticker price, you still have no idea what the car
is worth.
At least with gold, you can look it up in the business section of the
paper.
snakehawk
Look at it this way: if the gold dealers are hawking gold to the
general public in television commercials, it means the big
institutional buyers and major investors and traders are not buying
gold anymore--the price is too high, the gold bubble is about to pop.
Most of the commercials are running on FOX because that's the major
audience composed of people dumber than mules.
The strategy of the people who bought gold way back when for less than
$200 an ounce is now to dump it all on the unsuspecting Beck-level
stupes who always seem to buy everything when prices are peaking. Once
a good portion of the available gold in in the hands of the ignorant
boobs at about $1200 an ounce, the price will collapse, as prices
always collapse when bubbles pop. The boobs will hold the gold for
emergency purposes--at least until the prices gets down to less then
$200 an ounce. FOX watchers fall for the same trick again and again.
Gunner Asch
I think we can safely assume that this poster has no gold, didnt get any
gold, and is pissed off about it.
Pity how stupid Leftwingers really are, isnt it?
Gunner
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
pyotr filipivich
<gun...@lightspeed.net> reported Elvis on Thu, 24 Dec 2009 22:08:37
-0800 in misc.survivalism:
Well, I'm not pissed that I didn't, my mistake. I was wasting my
money of food, fuel and utilities. And computer parts.
I wonder if these folks feel ripped off if they don't have to file
a claim on their insurance? (Assuming they have insurance.)
>
>Pity how stupid Leftwingers really are, isnt it?
Yep. I'd rather buy gold at 1100 an ounce and not need it, than
to wish I had a tangible asset like that.
If memory serves, the previous peak gold, 850 an ounce in Jan
1981, would be closer to 2022 today.
-
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
cop welfare
>
> - Show quoted text -
pyotr filipivichnik sez with alacrity about halliburton whom he
loathes.
"Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel. "
and you have tunnel vision, sludgemind.
when will someone address the question of whetHer 'tis better, far
far, to acquire gold at ,forsooth, WELL nigh the world gold price, or
to vainly scrapple in perpetuity, underwater, like the mortgage
morons, because, yea verily, they have paid about i/3 MORE than the
fucking gold is actually WORTH... or 1/3 MORE than the price that the
seller will PAY them for the SAME coins, the SAME day, at the SAME
world gold price.
FRAUD.
snakehawk
Heh heh . . . bought a lot of gold in response to those commercials,
did you? Well, you've already lost almost half of your money. If you
don't believe me, go ahead and try to sell some of it to someone,
anyone. The dealer you bought it from will not be interested in
taking any of it back--gold is about the worst investment anyone can
make right now.
But you will still be better off if you sell it now rather than wait
until the bubble pops like a giant balloon. I suggest you sell it to
one of your friends of the Beck-bunch while the commercials are still
running.. Just tell them you need cash and you are willing to sell at
a small loss. If you can get more than half of your cost, dump it all.
HH&C
> Heh heh . . . bought a lot of gold in response to those commercials,
> did you? Well, you've already lost almost half of your money. If you
> don't believe me, go ahead and try to sell some of it to someone,
> anyone. The dealer you bought it from will not be interested in
> taking any of it back--gold is about the worst investment anyone can
> make right now.
>
> But you will still be better off if you sell it now rather than wait
> until the bubble pops like a giant balloon. I suggest you sell it to
> one of your friends of the Beck-bunch while the commercials are still
> running.. Just tell them you need cash and you are willing to sell at
> a small loss. If you can get more than half of your cost, dump it all.-
But just 6 months ago we were told that there just wasn't any gold to
be had.
snakehawk
Right. And today they're selling gold on television like soap. 6
months ago, the big speculators were holding their gold and buying or
selling gold futures to hedge their positions hoping for even higher
prices. Now they want to sell their gold, but their peers, the other
speculators, want none of it--only uninformed fools buy when prices
peak. So now they are selling their gold to the FOX followers using
movie and television stars as bait. And, as you can see from the
posts in this newsgroup, the FOX fools are falling for it. They never
learn.
Gunner Asch
<snak...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think we can safely assume that this poster has no gold, didnt get any
>> gold, and is pissed off about it.
>>
>> Pity how stupid Leftwingers really are, isnt it?
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>
>Heh heh . . . bought a lot of gold in response to those commercials,
>did you? Well, you've already lost almost half of your money. If you
>don't believe me, go ahead and try to sell some of it to someone,
>anyone. The dealer you bought it from will not be interested in
>taking any of it back--gold is about the worst investment anyone can
>make right now.
Really? Buying at $185 and selling it at $1100 is a poor investment?
Or simply hanging on to it and watching it rise in price is a bad idea?
Really? Or should I hAave bought Government bonds at 3% interest?
>
>But you will still be better off if you sell it now rather than wait
>until the bubble pops like a giant balloon. I suggest you sell it to
>one of your friends of the Beck-bunch while the commercials are still
>running.. Just tell them you need cash and you are willing to sell at
>a small loss. If you can get more than half of your cost, dump it all.
Small loss? Which would that be? Far as I can see..its still going up.
Like the Housing Bubble the Democrats blew up?
Laugh laugh laugh
Gunner
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766
Gunner Asch
<snak...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>On Dec 25, 10:27锟絧m, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 25, 10:06锟絧m, snakehawk <snakeh...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Heh heh . . . bought a lot of gold in response to those commercials,
>> > did you? 锟絎ell, you've already lost almost half of your money. 锟絀f you
>> > don't believe me, go ahead and try to sell some of it to someone,
>> > anyone. 锟絋he dealer you bought it from will not be interested in
>> > taking any of it back--gold is about the worst investment anyone can
>> > make right now.
>>
>> > But you will still be better off if you sell it now rather than wait
>> > until the bubble pops like a giant balloon. 锟絀 suggest you sell it to
>> > one of your friends of the Beck-bunch while the commercials are still
>> > running.. 锟絁ust tell them you need cash and you are willing to sell at
>> > a small loss. 锟絀f you can get more than half of your cost, dump it all.-
>>
>> But just 6 months ago we were told that there just wasn't any gold to
>> be had.
>
>Right. And today they're selling gold on television like soap. 6
>months ago, the big speculators were holding their gold and buying or
>selling gold futures to hedge their positions hoping for even higher
>prices. Now they want to sell their gold, but their peers, the other
>speculators, want none of it--only uninformed fools buy when prices
>peak. So now they are selling their gold to the FOX followers using
>movie and television stars as bait. And, as you can see from the
>posts in this newsgroup, the FOX fools are falling for it. They never
>learn.
So you want to buy a California home, or a $100 grand worth of gold?
snakehawk
> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:06:25 -0800 (PST), snakehawk
>
> >did you? Well, you've already lost almost half of your money. If you
> >don't believe me, go ahead and try to sell some of it to someone,
> >anyone. The dealer you bought it from will not be interested in
> >taking any of it back--gold is about the worst investment anyone can
> >make right now.
>
> Really? Buying at $185 and selling it at $1100 is a poor investment?
$185!? Gold hasn't sold for $185 since 1978. You mean you have been
sitting on your little stash of idle gold for over 30 years? What in
heaven's name for? Have you enjoyed it? Have you gotten anything out
of it? My god, that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Gunner Asch
A bit of increase that no one can tax or touch is a bad thing?
Its like a fire extinguisher..costs a bit when you buy it..but when you
NEED it...its a life saver.
You dont think so?
pyotr filipivich
-0800 in misc.survivalism:
>
>>> But just 6 months ago we were told that there just wasn't any gold to
>>> be had.
>>
>>Right. And today they're selling gold on television like soap. 6
>>months ago, the big speculators were holding their gold and buying or
>>selling gold futures to hedge their positions hoping for even higher
>>prices. Now they want to sell their gold, but their peers, the other
>>speculators, want none of it--only uninformed fools buy when prices
>>peak. So now they are selling their gold to the FOX followers using
>>movie and television stars as bait. And, as you can see from the
>>posts in this newsgroup, the FOX fools are falling for it. They never
>>learn.
>
>
>So you want to buy a California home, or a $100 grand worth of gold?
Can I get a NINJA loan to buy the gold?
>
>Laugh laugh laugh
>
>Gunner
wmbjk...@citlink.net
The idea that gummer is hoarding gold is ludicrous. You are arguing
with an infamous pathological liar. See for yourself - a couple weeks
ago he was telling readers that his electricity was to be cut off any
day. About the same time he was discussing bankruptcy
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/7473676d8c1b302b,
which fits with his history of deadbeatitis http://tinyurl.com/d7hkkp.
He claims to own a business, but here's a customer report
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/msg/7ea5a4fb45355771.
And this is what the past 3 decades of his life is like in his own
words (for only the strongest of stomach readers).
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7f8dc0540354ade1
He's an investor in the same way that my cat is an astronaut.
Wayne