Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

[Jolly Roger]

Contrary to the gleeful claims of the resident trolls here stating the
iPhone 15 has a supposed hardware defect, Apple has confirmed that the
recent spat of iPhone heat complaints is the result of an *iOS 17 bug*
that will be fixed shortly in an update:

Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
<https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/09/30/apple-confirms-ios-17-fix-for-overheating-iphones-is-on-the-way>
---
The iPhone 15 overheating issue is being worked on by Apple, the company
has confirmed, with an iOS 17 bug and third-party apps blamed for some
of the hot iPhone reports. Following the launch of the iPhone 15 and
iPhone 15 Pro lines, Apple has had to face claims and reports about the
new smartphones overheating in various situations. On Saturday, the
iPhone maker has confirmed it is aware of the reports, and it's working
to solve the problem.

In comments received by Forbes on the matter, Apple states "*We have
identified a few conditions which can cause iPhone to run warmer than
expected.*" During the first few days of setting up or restoring a
device, Apple advises some warmth can be expected "*because of increased
background activity.*"

This activity can include the iPhone redownloading apps and bought
content, as well as a lengthy period of indexing all files for Spotlight
search.

Apple brings up software as a second port of call for the heat issue.
"*We have also found a bug in iOS 17 that is impacting some users and
will be addressed in a software update,*" Apple says without specifying
what the bug actually is.

"*Another issue involves some recent updates to third-party apps that are
causing them to overload the system,*" Apple continued. "*We're working
with these app developers on fixes that are in the process of rolling
out.*"

One prominent example of third-party app problems is Instagram, with it
claimed to not only overheat the iPhone but to also heavily consume the
battery for brief periods of time.

Testing via YouTube personalities determined that there were occasions
when using Instagram triggered overheating for up to 10 minutes at a
time.

While reports from the public focused on Apple's latest smartphone
launches, it seems at least for Instagram that it affects other models
too. Some iPhone 14 generation devices had the same heat issues as their
iPhone 15 counterparts, again using Instagram and after updating to iOS
17.

Apple didn't advise when it would issue a fix for the situation, but
there's a chance it could be incorporated into iOS 17.1.
---

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Jolly Roger]

Another choice quote:

---
There has been much speculation that this could be down to the new
titanium material that is one of the big updates on the iPhone 15 Pro
and iPhone 15 Pro Max. This never made sense to me, not least because
iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus users were reporting overheating, and
there’s no titanium in those handsets.

What’s more, Apple has been consistent about how titanium, in
conjunction with its aluminum substructure, is great at dispersing heat.
Better, indeed, than any previous stainless steel iPhone Pro model. The
design of the iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro is not causing
overheating, Apple says.
---

So much for that bogus claim...

[Oscar Mayer]

On 30 Sep 2023 17:46:00 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Contrary to the gleeful claims of the resident trolls here stating the
> iPhone 15 has a supposed hardware defect, Apple has confirmed that the
> recent spat of iPhone heat complaints is the result of an *iOS 17 bug*
> that will be fixed shortly in an update:

Is this the same bug you and Alan Baker insisted for days didn't exist?

[Patrick]

On 30 Sep 2023 17:46:00 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> with an iOS 17 bug and third-party apps blamed for some
> of the hot iPhone reports.

Apple blames the 'apps' (and not Apple's lack of testing them).

> "*We have
> identified a few conditions which can cause iPhone to run warmer than
> expected.*"

Apple blames the 'conditions' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

> This activity can include the iPhone redownloading apps and bought
> content,

Apple blames the 'redownloading' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

> as well as a lengthy period of indexing all files for Spotlight
> search.

Apple blames the 'indexing' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

>
> Apple brings up software as a second port of call for the heat issue.

Apple blames the 'software' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

> "*We have also found a bug in iOS 17 that is impacting some users and
> will be addressed in a software update,*" Apple says without specifying
> what the bug actually is.

Apple blames the 'iOS 17 bug' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

> "*Another issue involves some recent updates to third-party apps

Apple blames the 'updates' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

> One prominent example of third-party app problems is Instagram,

Apple blames 'Instagram' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

> it seems at least for Instagram that it affects other models
> too. Some iPhone 14 generation devices had the same heat issues as their
> iPhone 15 counterparts, again using Instagram and after updating to iOS
> 17.

Apple blames 'everyone but Apple' (but never Apple's lack of testing).

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

> There has been much speculation that this could be down to the new
> titanium material that is one of the big updates on the iPhone 15 Pro
> and iPhone 15 Pro Max. This never made sense to me

Apple has already blamed about a dozen (two dozen?) entities
for the overheating that you repeatedly insisted didn't exist.

About the only thing Apple did not blame - was the titanium.

The real problem is so obvious that even you should figure it out.
*Apple forgot to test the iPhone 15 with iOS 17 on it.*

Again. And again. And again. And again... Apple forgot to test it.

*It's really that simple.*

[Alan]

So you were completely wrong about it being a defect in the iPhone 15
itself, right?

[badgolferman]

The vague description of the problem will lead to a vague description of
the solution.

iOS 17 has been installed on my work iPhone 11 and I haven’t noticed any
problems, but then I only use Outlook to view email.

iOS 16.7 has been installed on my personal iPhone 14 and I will hold out
for the vague solution to be released.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2023-09-30, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Contrary to the gleeful claims of the resident trolls here stating the
>> iPhone 15 has a supposed hardware defect, Apple has confirmed that the
>> recent spat of iPhone heat complaints is the result of an *iOS 17 bug*
>> that will be fixed shortly in an update:
>>
>> Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
>><https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/09/30/apple-confirms-ios-17-fix-for-overheating-iphones-is-on-the-way>
>

> Another choice quote:
>
> ---
> There has been much speculation that this could be down to the new
> titanium material that is one of the big updates on the iPhone 15 Pro
> and iPhone 15 Pro Max. This never made sense to me, not least because
> iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus users were reporting overheating, and
> there’s no titanium in those handsets.
>
> What’s more, Apple has been consistent about how titanium, in
> conjunction with its aluminum substructure, is great at dispersing heat.
> Better, indeed, than any previous stainless steel iPhone Pro model. The
> design of the iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro is not causing
> overheating, Apple says.
> ---
>
> So much for that bogus claim...

Apple told Forbes that it will not be lowering the performance of the
A17 Pro chip as part of its bug fix related to iPhone 15 Pro
overheating.

Squirm, little troll bois! 🤣

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2023-09-30 11:56, Wally J wrote:
>> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>>
>>> There has been much speculation that this could be down to the new
>>> titanium material that is one of the big updates on the iPhone 15
>>> Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max. This never made sense to me
>>
>> Apple has already blamed about a dozen (two dozen?) entities for the
>> overheating that you repeatedly insisted didn't exist.

Blatant lie. Apple hasn't blamed anyone, and in fact this is their first
public statement about the issue.

[the rest of your weak drivel ignored]

Your trolls are as weak as your feeble mind, Arlen.

> So you were completely wrong about it being a defect in the iPhone 15
> itself, right?

Squirm, Arlen... Squirm.

[Jolly Roger]

Another blatant lie. I never said this issue didn't exist. What I *did*
point out was much more nuanced than your weak trolls can account for:

* many iPhone 15 owners report no heat issue
* numerous owners of older models report heat issues after installing
iOS 17

Your trolls are weak.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 12:21, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-09-30, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-09-30 11:56, Wally J wrote:
>>> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> There has been much speculation that this could be down to the new
>>>> titanium material that is one of the big updates on the iPhone 15
>>>> Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max. This never made sense to me
>>>
>>> Apple has already blamed about a dozen (two dozen?) entities for the
>>> overheating that you repeatedly insisted didn't exist.
>
> Blatant lie. Apple hasn't blamed anyone, and in fact this is their first
> public statement about the issue.
>
> [the rest of your weak drivel ignored]
>
> Your trolls are as weak as your feeble mind, Arlen.
>
>> So you were completely wrong about it being a defect in the iPhone 15
>> itself, right?
>
> Squirm, Arlen... Squirm.
>

Isn't it amazing how the "man" who claims he only writes facts...

...so often writes bullshit...

...and then crawls away?

:-)

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Patrick <pat...@oleary.com> wrote:
> On 30 Sep 2023 17:46:00 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>> with an iOS 17 bug and third-party apps blamed for some of the hot
>> iPhone reports.
>
> Apple blames the 'apps' (and not Apple's lack of testing them).

Actually, Apple blamed a bug in iOS itself, and also bugs in certain
third-party apps that need to be updated.

>> "*We have identified a few conditions which can cause iPhone to run
>> warmer than expected.*"
>
> Apple blames the 'conditions' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

Actually, all bugs have certain conditions that must be met for them to
appear. There's nothing abnormal about stating that Apple has noted the
conditions required for the bug to operate. Standard practice in any
software development process.

>> This activity can include the iPhone redownloading apps and bought
>> content,
>
> Apple blames the 'redownloading' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

Actually, it is well known that after any iOS update, the device will
spend time rebuilding caches and indexes as well as downloading updated
apps, during which time the device gets warmer, uses more energy, and
drains the battery faster. After this process is complete, performance
returns to normal.

>> as well as a lengthy period of indexing all files for Spotlight
>> search.
>
> Apple blames the 'indexing' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

See above.

>> Apple brings up software as a second port of call for the heat issue.
>
> Apple blames the 'software' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

Actually, this is indeed a software (and not a hardware) defect -
contrary to your baseless claims.

>> "*We have also found a bug in iOS 17 that is impacting some users and
>> will be addressed in a software update,*" Apple says without
>> specifying what the bug actually is.
>
> Apple blames the 'iOS 17 bug' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

Actually, bugs exist in all software created today. And in software
that is distributed to hundreds of millions of devices with varying
configurations and operating environments, it's a virtual certainty that
some unknown bugs will be found after deployment. That's just a fact of
life on this planet today.

>> "*Another issue involves some recent updates to third-party apps
>
> Apple blames the 'updates' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

Actually, Apple is stating that certain app updates have bugs that cause
excessive resources resulting in excess heat generation.

>> One prominent example of third-party app problems is Instagram,
>
> Apple blames 'Instagram' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

See above.

>> it seems at least for Instagram that it affects other models too.
>> Some iPhone 14 generation devices had the same heat issues as their
>> iPhone 15 counterparts, again using Instagram and after updating to
>> iOS 17.
>
> Apple blames 'everyone but Apple' (but never Apple's lack of testing).

Actually, Apple's very first explanation was a bug in iOS 17.

Your trolls are weak.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The vague description of the problem will lead to a vague description
> of the solution.

All that matters to people who aren't trolls is that they have located
the problem and are working on a fix.

> iOS 17 has been installed on my work iPhone 11 and I haven’t noticed
> any problems

Many others echo this. The bug does not effect most people.

> but then I only use Outlook to view email.

I don't see the relevance of this.

> iOS 16.7 has been installed on my personal iPhone 14 and I will hold
> out for the vague solution to be released.

Whatever floats your troll boat.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

> Apple hasn't blamed anyone, and in fact this is their first
> public statement about the issue.

Hi Jolly Roger,

What's consistent isn't so much Apple is incompetent at design, but that
Apple is so insecure about their incompetence that they blame everyone.

You yourself just said Apple blamed Instagram, Apple blamed iOS 17, Apple
blamed indexing, Apple blamed everything except the titanium, Jolly Roger.

It's _always_ the same with Apple... blaming everyone but Apple.
"You're holding it wrong!"

The real problem is the same today as it was in all the years past.
*Apple has never sufficiently tested _anything_ that they sell*

It's a proven fact now given Apple themselves clearly stated they forgot to
test the iPhone for the dozen or so things that they blamed caused it.
--
What's consistent isn't so much Apple is incompetent at design, but that
Apple is so insecure about their incompetence that they blame everyone.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 12:33, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> Apple hasn't blamed anyone, and in fact this is their first
>> public statement about the issue.
>
> Hi Jolly Roger,
>
> What's consistent isn't so much Apple is incompetent at design, but that
> Apple is so insecure about their incompetence that they blame everyone.
>
> You yourself just said Apple blamed Instagram, Apple blamed iOS 17, Apple
> blamed indexing, Apple blamed everything except the titanium, Jolly Roger.
>
> It's _always_ the same with Apple... blaming everyone but Apple.
> "You're holding it wrong!"
>
> The real problem is the same today as it was in all the years past.
> *Apple has never sufficiently tested _anything_ that they sell*
>

> It's a proven fact...

That you claimed it was a defect with the phone.

Do you deny it, Arlen?

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

> Apple told Forbes that it will not be lowering the performance of the
> A17 Pro chip as part of its bug fix related to iPhone 15 Pro
> overheating.

This is good news Jolly Roger, because that was the prior result of Apple's
long sordid history of never having sufficiently tested any product. Ever.

The facts remain...
*Apple consistently forgets to test their devices in the real world*

HINT: The real world has Instagram and iOS 17 and it has app indexing, JR.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 12:39, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> Apple told Forbes that it will not be lowering the performance of the
>> A17 Pro chip as part of its bug fix related to iPhone 15 Pro
>> overheating.
>
> This is good news Jolly Roger, because that was the prior result of Apple's
> long sordid history of never having sufficiently tested any product. Ever.
>
> The facts remain...

...you consistently claim you only write facts...

...but the fact is you regularly write bullshit.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

> I never said this issue didn't exist.

The real problem is the same today as it was in all the years past.
*Apple has never sufficiently tested _anything_ that they sell*

I wonder if it occurs to you, Jolly Roger, that Apple _blamed_ about a
dozen (or so) entities - all of which existed prior to the release.

So tell us all, Jolly Roger... since you seem to know so much about Apple.

*Why do _you_ think Apple forgot to test it in the real world?*

Again.

[Alan]

Where did I assert that...

...Arlen?

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 12:43, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> I never said this issue didn't exist.

> The real problem is...

...that you're nothing but a little weasel?

:-)

[Wally J]

badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote

> The vague description of the problem will lead to a vague description of
> the solution.
>

> iOS 17 has been installed on my work iPhone 11 and I haven┤ noticed any

> problems, but then I only use Outlook to view email.
>
> iOS 16.7 has been installed on my personal iPhone 14 and I will hold out
> for the vague solution to be released.

Hi badgolferman,

If we use our adult cognitive skills and our well-remembered history of
what Apple does to cleverly hide their (repeated) lack of testing...

*A pattern emerges*

Do you see the pattern?
I do.

What's patently obvious to any adult is Apple forgot to test this latest
device in the real world (which includes Instagram & iOS 17 for example).

Right?
That's a fact as had they tested it, this never would have happened.

So we have to agree - as adults - Apple didn't sufficiently test it.
That pattern has already been well established with Apple products.

Need I elaborate?
I hope not.

Now to the blame game that Apple _always_ plays.
*You're holding it wrong* and "The batteries that made me do it*.

It's a pattern with Apple to blame everyone but Apple, right?
Well lookey' here.

Apple just blamed a dozen (or so) entities for the problem, right?

Now, here's the adult question to ask of you (or anyone else)...
*How many of those entities that Apple blamed - did not exist prior?*

The answer is zero, right?
Right?

Every single entity that Apple blamed existed _prior_ to the release!
That's just a fact.

This means the real problem is as simple as what I've proven for years.
*Apple forgot to sufficiently test their design before releasing it*

It's really that simple, is it not?
Do you agree?

Or disagree?
Why or why not?

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

>> The vague description of the problem will lead to a vague description
>> of the solution.
>
> All that matters to people who aren't trolls is that they have located
> the problem and are working on a fix.

It's no longer shocking you missed the point of your own thread, JR.
You, yourself - said that Apple blamed something like a dozen things.
Right?

They blamed Instagram, for example, right?

Allow me to ask you a simple _adult_ question of your own words, JR...
*Did Instagram exist before the iPhone 15 released?* Jolly Roger?

>> iOS 17 has been installed on my work iPhone 11 and I haven┤ noticed

>> any problems
>
> Many others echo this. The bug does not effect most people.

First off, you're calling it "the bug" because Apple clearly tried to hide
the fact that Apple simply forgot to test the iPhone 15 before selling it.

There will _always_ be "the bug" in any iOS 17 release, which badgolferman
alluded to given Apple's sweeping response was that it was _many_ bugs.

Right?
Do you even comprehend your own threads, Jolly Roger?

Seriously.
What Apple did, which badgolferman understood, was blame almost everything.

What's really the issue here - and which always was the issue with Apple is
*Apple did not sufficiently test the iPhone 15 before selling it*

That's what this thread is about.

[badgolferman]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2023-09-30, badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>
>> but then I only use Outlook to view email.
>
> I don't see the relevance of this.
>

On my work phone I only use one app - Outlook. That means it is hardly
stressed to do anything intensive or render any graphics. There’s barely
any chance for it to get overheated. Maybe charging it is the only way for
that to happen.

[badgolferman]

Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> The vague description of the problem will lead to a vague description of
>> the solution.
>>

>> iOS 17 has been installed on my work iPhone 11 and I havenąt noticed any

Why should they put all those resources into testing their software when
there are millions of people available to do it for free? It’s not like
anyone is going to stop using the iPhone if they found a bug. The only way
most people would drop Apple is if they started losing trust in them…

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> Apple hasn't blamed anyone, and in fact this is their first public
>> statement about the issue.
>
> Hi Jolly Roger,

Eat shit, Arlen. 🙂

> You yourself just said Apple blamed Instagram

Actually, the record shows I *never* said that. i
You did, though.

> Apple blamed iOS 17

I also never said that.
You did, though.

And was it wrong of Apple to identify a bug in its on operating system
that contributed to excess heat generation in your dimwit opinion? 🤣

> Apple blamed indexing

I never said that either.
You did, though.

> Apple blamed everything except the titanium, Jolly Roger.

Explaining the cause of the problem and promising a software update to
fix the software defect isn't "blaming", little Arlen.

> It's _always_ the same with Apple... blaming everyone but Apple.
> "You're holding it wrong!"

Apple *literally* said the issue is a software defect in iOS along with
software defects in certain popular third-party apps.

Your lies are both weak and boring, little Arlen.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> I never said this issue didn't exist.
>
> The real problem

is that your lies are *easily* disproved.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

> Eat shit

Such an adult response to the fact that Apple forgot to test it (again).

> Explaining the cause of the problem and promising a software update to
> fix the software defect isn't "blaming"

Only badgolferman noticed (so far) that Apple blamed everyone but
Apple - and worse - Apple's blame was so sweeping it spanned the gamut
of possibilities - from the operating system to the apps on the phone.

All of which existed _before_ Apple sold the defective phone to customers.

>
>> It's _always_ the same with Apple... blaming everyone but Apple.
>> "You're holding it wrong!"
>
> Apple *literally* said the issue is a software defect in iOS along with
> software defects in certain popular third-party apps.

Everything Apple blamed existed _before_ Apple sold the defective device.
*That's a fact*, Jolly Roger... is it not?
--

> Your lies are both weak and boring

It's always the case that iKooks call all facts about Apple, lies, JR.

[Alan]

You have it precisely backwards.

It is because there are "millions of people" using their iPhones in
millions of different ways that there is no possible way that Apple
could test for all possible problems.

[Alan]

Well that's simply bullshit from the start.

There is literally no chance that you have never once used any app on
your work phone except Outlook.

[candycanearter07]

On 9/30/23 14:49, Wally J wrote:
> It's really that simple, is it not?
> Do you agree?
>
> Or disagree?
> Why or why not?

Agreed, this does happen a lot.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

>> The real problem
>
> is that your lies are *easily* disproved.

It's no longer shocking iKooks call all facts about Apple, lies.

Only badgolferman noticed (so far) that Apple blamed everyone but
Apple - and worse - Apple's blame was so sweeping it spanned the gamut
of possibilities - from the operating system to the apps on the phone.

All of which existed _before_ Apple sold the defective phone to customers.

Everything Apple blamed existed _before_ Apple sold the defective device.
*That's a fact*, Jolly Roger... is it not?

Would Apple have sold the defective iPhone 15 had they fully tested it?

[candycanearter07]

On 9/30/23 15:07, badgolferman wrote:
> Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>> It's really that simple, is it not?
>> Do you agree?
>>
>> Or disagree?
>> Why or why not?
>>
>
> Why should they put all those resources into testing their software when
> there are millions of people available to do it for free? It’s not like
> anyone is going to stop using the iPhone if they found a bug. The only way
> most people would drop Apple is if they started losing trust in them…
>

Because people expect polish?? What kind of argument is this? Ship now,
fix later is hated by consumers for a reason.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 13:27, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/30/23 14:49, Wally J wrote:
>> It's really that simple, is it not?
>> Do you agree?
>>
>> Or disagree?
>> Why or why not?
>
> Agreed, this does happen a lot.

Or the media is incredibly focused on Apple because it makes for great
headlines.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> The vague description of the problem will lead to a vague description
>>> of the solution.
>>
>> All that matters to people who aren't trolls is that they have located
>> the problem and are working on a fix.
>

> You, yourself - said that Apple blamed something like a dozen things.
> Right?

I never said Apple blamed anyone.

You said that, though.

What actually happened is Apple investigated the issue and found that
the culprit was a bug in iOS (contrary to your troll gang's claim that
it's supposedly a hardware defect) combined with bugs in some popular
third-party apps. Apple also explained that it is normal for iPhones to
get warmer after operating system updates, which is true.

> They blamed Instagram, for example, right?

Wrong. They identified a bug in Instagram that caused excessive resource
usage and in turn generated excessive heat.

> Allow me to ask you a simple _adult_ question of your own words, JR...
> *Did Instagram exist before the iPhone 15 released?* Jolly Roger?

Allow me to ask you some follow-up questions in response:

*Has Instagram been updated before and after iOS 17 was released?* Arlen?
*Do you understand that bugs can be introduced during updates?* Arlen?
*Do you know that Instagram has had previous bugs that caused excessive
resource usage in the past?* Arlen?

>>> iOS 17 has been installed on my work iPhone 11 and I haven¢t noticed

>>> any problems
>>
>> Many others echo this. The bug does not effect most people.
>
> First off, you're calling it "the bug"

It is a bug.

You are one of several idiot trolls here who wrongly claimed it was a
hardware defect That's on record. No way to change it now. You're just
making yourself look like the sad, little, squirming man-child you are.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 13:27, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> The real problem
>>
>> is that your lies are *easily* disproved.
>
> It's no longer shocking iKooks call all facts about Apple, lies.
>
> Only badgolferman noticed (so far) that Apple blamed everyone but
> Apple - and worse - Apple's blame was so sweeping it spanned the gamut
> of possibilities - from the operating system to the apps on the phone.

Apple admitted that there was a bug in iOS 17...

...so you're just lying again.

>
> All of which existed _before_ Apple sold the defective phone to customers.

And you've just lied by pretending you don't know the defect wasn't in
the phone.

>
> Everything Apple blamed existed _before_ Apple sold the defective device.
> *That's a fact*, Jolly Roger... is it not?
>
> Would Apple have sold the defective iPhone 15 had they fully tested it?

And again, and again.

[Your Name]

On 2023-09-30 18:52:04 +0000, Patrick said:

> On 30 Sep 2023 17:46:00 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> with an iOS 17 bug and third-party apps blamed for some
>> of the hot iPhone reports.
>
> Apple blames

<snip>

Another anti-Apple moron for the killfile.

[Jolly Roger]

Good luck.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> Eat shit
>
> Such an adult response

Your personal insults don't count, huh? Yeah, nah.

>> Explaining the cause of the problem and promising a software update
>> to fix the software defect isn't "blaming"
>

> Apple blamed everyone but Apple

That's a lie. Apple *literally* listed a bug in iOS 17 as one of the
causes in its official statement. The reason you are harping on this
"blame everyone else" false narrative is you *desperately* want to
deflect from the FACT that you and your little troll gang wrongly
claimed it was a *hardware* defect.

You're all a bunch of *clowns*. 🤣

>> Apple *literally* said the issue is a software defect in iOS along
>> with software defects in certain popular third-party apps.
>
> Everything Apple blamed

Apple didn't blame. They simply explained the cause and promised a fix.

Eat the shit you spew, Arlen. 🙂

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> The real problem
>>
>> is that your lies are *easily* disproved.
>

> facts about Apple

You have a proven track record of an inability to discern opinion from
fact, Arlen. Your trolls are weak.

> the defective iPhone 15

Still repeating that obvious lie. God, you're boring.

[Alan]

Except you have yet to demonstrate that any significant fraction of the
"millions of people" have been impacted by this issue.

[badgolferman]

Thank you for admitting out loud Apple doesn’t test their software.

[badgolferman]

My work phone has MDM and is tightened down severely. Maybe once in a while
I look at weather, but I don’t like the iOS weather app and mostly look at
my own phone for weather. Email is 99% of my usage on that phone.

And the only bullshit here is whatever comes out of your mind.

[Jolly Roger]

It's very obvious neither badgolferman or Arlen (Wally) have ever worked
professionally in a software team in charge of deploying software to
massive numbers of heterogeneous clients.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why should they put all those resources into testing their software
>>> when there are millions of people available to do it for free? It’s
>>> not like anyone is going to stop using the iPhone if they found a
>>> bug. The only way most people would drop Apple is if they started
>>> losing trust in them…
>>
>> You have it precisely backwards.
>>
>> It is because there are "millions of people" using their iPhones in
>> millions of different ways that there is no possible way that Apple
>> could test for all possible problems.
>
> Thank you for admitting out loud Apple doesn’t test their software.

He very clearly didn't say they don't test.

Your trolls are weak.

[Alan]

I didn't say anything like that.

You're either a liar, or your an idiot...

...and that's not a XOR.

:-)

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

>> facts about Apple
>
> You have a proven track record of an inability to discern opinion from
> fact

And yet, it's obvious that Apple did not sufficiently test the defective
iPhone 15 under the rather common circumstances you said Apple blamed.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> facts about Apple
>>
>> You have a proven track record of an inability to discern opinion
>> from fact
>

> the defective iPhone 15i

False.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

> I never said Apple blamed anyone.

Ah, but you did.
For example, you said that Apple blamed "Instagram" (among many others).

HINT: Apple is (rather slyly) almost certainly (cleverly) trying to hide
the real cause (which badgolferman understood) behind a long smokescreen.

> You said that, though.

No. You said it.
For example, you said that Apple blamed "indexing"(among many others).

> What actually happened is Apple investigated the issue and found that
> the culprit was a bug in iOS (contrary to your troll gang's claim that
> it's supposedly a hardware defect) combined with bugs in some popular
> third-party apps. Apple also explained that it is normal for iPhones to
> get warmer after operating system updates, which is true.

It's no longer shocking that you don't understand your own threads, JR.
You posted that Apple blamed pretty much everything that can be blamed.

BTW, the concept of _why_ Apple blamed a dozen things is too complicated
for you to comprehend - but adults know why Apple likely did that.

HINT: Apple is (rather slyly) almost certainly (cleverly) trying to hide
the real cause (which badgolferman understood) behind a long smokescreen.

>> They blamed Instagram, for example, right?
>
> Wrong. They identified a bug in Instagram that caused excessive resource
> usage and in turn generated excessive heat.

Apple blamed Instagram.

Did Instagram exist prior to Apple releasing the defective iPhone 15?
Yes? or No?

>> Allow me to ask you a simple _adult_ question of your own words, JR...
>> *Did Instagram exist before the iPhone 15 released?* Jolly Roger?
>
> Allow me to ask you some follow-up questions in response:

HINT: Apple is (rather slyly) almost certainly (cleverly) trying to hide
the real cause (which badgolferman understood) behind a long smokescreen.

> *Has Instagram been updated before and after iOS 17 was released?*

You're _desperate_ to blame Instagram, Jolly Roger.
Let's say it _is_ the fault of Instagram, then Jolly Roger.
OK?

Now why then did Apple provide a virtual litany of "other causes" then?
Think about that.

> *Do you understand that bugs can be introduced during updates?*

Again, it's clear how _desperate_ you are to blame anyone but Apple.
But let's again agree with you that "bugs were introduced", OK?

Now... why then did Apple blame one of those bugs as being in iOS 17?

Do you think maybe Apple _forgot_ to test the iPhone 15 with iOS 17?
Yes? or No?

> *Do you know that Instagram has had previous bugs that caused excessive
> resource usage in the past?*

That's a repeat of your initial desperate attempt to blame Instagram for
Apple having forgotten to sufficiently test the defective iPhone 15.

Do you think Apple simply _forgot_ to test the iPhone 15 with Instagram?
Yes? or No?

>>>> iOS 17 has been installed on my work iPhone 11 and I haven┤ noticed

>>>> any problems
>>>
>>> Many others echo this. The bug does not effect most people.
>>
>> First off, you're calling it "the bug"
>
> It is a bug.

Actually, your own words show clearly that Apple said it was a whole lot of
things that Apple happened to not test for before selling that iPhone 15.

An intelligent _adult_ might wonder (like badgolferman did), why exactly is
Apple so desperate to claim it was a ton of things - not just one bug?

I think I know why - because I know Apple's history of clever lies.
But time will tell why Apple said it was everything under the sun.

HINT: Apple is (rather slyly) almost certainly (cleverly) trying to hide
the real cause (which badgolferman understood) behind a long smokescreen.

> You are one of several idiot trolls here who wrongly claimed it was a
> hardware defect That's on record. No way to change it now. You're just
> making yourself look like the sad, little, squirming man-child you are.

I have clearly claimed that Apple themselves told us what the problem is.
*Apple did not sufficiently test the iPhone 15 on iOS 17 before selling it*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/YKdktNAV7vY>

For the intelligent adults on this newsgroup, I must point out that the
mere fact Apple stooped so low as to sleazily blame pretty much everything
that they possibly could think of to blame, that the real problem is far
more embarrassing to Apple - which - I predict - we'll find out over time.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-09-30, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> I never said Apple blamed anyone.
>
> Ah, but you did.

No, I did not.

*You* did, though. And the reason you are repeating this obvious lie is
because you are *desperate* to try to deflect from the FACT that you
falsely claimed the iPhone 15 hardware is defective. You're a clown.

> For example, you said that Apple blamed "Instagram" (among many others).

Liar. I never said that. You did, though.

>> You said that, though.
>
> No. You said it.

My god, you are such a weak liar.

I'm actually embarrassed for you.

[the rest of your outright lies rightfully ignored]

[Your Name]

No computer company on the planet does, nor can, terst their devices
against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware.
It's not remotely sensible for anyone to expect them to either.

[*Hemidactylus*]

badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-09-30, badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>

>>> but then I only use Outlook to view email.
>>

>> I don't see the relevance of this.
>>
>
>
> On my work phone I only use one app - Outlook. That means it is hardly
> stressed to do anything intensive or render any graphics. There’s barely
> any chance for it to get overheated. Maybe charging it is the only way for
> that to happen.
>

I noticed my iPhone 13 getting warm on occasion whether rapid charging or
in the car with summer sun blazing. That was before I updated to iOS 17.
Can’t tell if it has gotten much worse. Firefox has weird rendering when
typing replies to a blog I never noticed before the update.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> Contrary to the gleeful claims of the resident trolls here stating the
> iPhone 15 has a supposed hardware defect, Apple has confirmed that the
> recent spat of iPhone heat complaints is the result of an *iOS 17 bug*
> that will be fixed shortly in an update:
>
> Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/09/30/apple-confirms-ios-17-fix-for-overheating-iphones-is-on-the-way>
> ---
> The iPhone 15 overheating issue is being worked on by Apple, the company
> has confirmed, with an iOS 17 bug and third-party apps blamed for some
> of the hot iPhone reports. Following the launch of the iPhone 15 and
> iPhone 15 Pro lines, Apple has had to face claims and reports about the
> new smartphones overheating in various situations. On Saturday, the
> iPhone maker has confirmed it is aware of the reports, and it's working
> to solve the problem.
>
> In comments received by Forbes on the matter, Apple states "*We have
> identified a few conditions which can cause iPhone to run warmer than
> expected.*" During the first few days of setting up or restoring a
> device, Apple advises some warmth can be expected "*because of increased
> background activity.*"
>
> This activity can include the iPhone redownloading apps and bought
> content, as well as a lengthy period of indexing all files for Spotlight
> search.
>
> Apple brings up software as a second port of call for the heat issue.
> "*We have also found a bug in iOS 17 that is impacting some users and
> will be addressed in a software update,*" Apple says without specifying
> what the bug actually is.
>
> "*Another issue involves some recent updates to third-party apps that are
> causing them to overload the system,*" Apple continued. "*We're working
> with these app developers on fixes that are in the process of rolling
> out.*"
>
> One prominent example of third-party app problems is Instagram, with it
> claimed to not only overheat the iPhone but to also heavily consume the
> battery for brief periods of time.
>
> Testing via YouTube personalities determined that there were occasions
> when using Instagram triggered overheating for up to 10 minutes at a
> time.
>
> While reports from the public focused on Apple's latest smartphone
> launches, it seems at least for Instagram that it affects other models
> too. Some iPhone 14 generation devices had the same heat issues as their
> iPhone 15 counterparts, again using Instagram and after updating to iOS
> 17.
>
> Apple didn't advise when it would issue a fix for the situation, but
> there's a chance it could be incorporated into iOS 17.1.
> ---
>
I don’t use Instagram. I guess the coming update will be important
regardless. Good to see it might not be hardware afterall.

[*Hemidactylus*]

>>>>> iOS 17 has been installed on my work iPhone 11 and I havenąt noticed

>>>>> any problems
>>>>
>>>> Many others echo this. The bug does not effect most people.
>>>
>>> First off, you're calling it "the bug"
>>
>> It is a bug.
>
> Actually, your own words show clearly that Apple said it was a whole lot of
> things that Apple happened to not test for before selling that iPhone 15.
>
> An intelligent _adult_ might wonder (like badgolferman did), why exactly is
> Apple so desperate to claim it was a ton of things - not just one bug?
>
> I think I know why - because I know Apple's history of clever lies.
> But time will tell why Apple said it was everything under the sun.
>
> HINT: Apple is (rather slyly) almost certainly (cleverly) trying to hide
> the real cause (which badgolferman understood) behind a long smokescreen.
>
>> You are one of several idiot trolls here who wrongly claimed it was a
>> hardware defect That's on record. No way to change it now. You're just
>> making yourself look like the sad, little, squirming man-child you are.
>
> I have clearly claimed that Apple themselves told us what the problem is.
> *Apple did not sufficiently test the iPhone 15 on iOS 17 before selling it*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/YKdktNAV7vY>
>
> For the intelligent adults on this newsgroup, I must point out that the
> mere fact Apple stooped so low as to sleazily blame pretty much everything
> that they possibly could think of to blame, that the real problem is far
> more embarrassing to Apple - which - I predict - we'll find out over time.
>

We shall see, though I hold no bias here. And people who talk down their
noses at others as if adulting aren’t. How many sockpuppets have you
wielded recently uninteresting troll?

[badgolferman]

Do they test them against the most popular apps as rated on their own App
Store?

[Your Name]

> I don’t use Instagram. I guess the coming update will be important
> regardless. Good to see it might not be hardware afterall.

Instagram is one app that seems to have issues, but there are almost
certainly other apps that cause the problem - not sure if any others
have actually been named though.

[sms]

On 9/30/2023 1:07 PM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> Why should they put all those resources into testing their software when
> there are millions of people available to do it for free?

<snip>

There is just no way that they could test all the different apps in all
the different usage scenarios. It's expected that there will be issues
that don't turn up until the devices are in the hands of a very large
number of users.

What will be interesting to see is if the A17 benchmarks change once iOS
17 is updated to address overheating. Kuo stated that they'd have to
throttle the CPU in order to address the overheating, in which case the
benchmarks could be affected. "Those who must not be named" insisted
that there is no issue because not every user has reported overheating,
though they now are aware that the issue is real. The truth will come
out soon enough.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

[Alan]

In every possible use case? Probably not.

How could they?

[sms]

On 9/30/2023 4:33 PM, badgolferman wrote:

> Do they test them against the most popular apps as rated on their own App
> Store?

That is a good point. This is different than a "computer company" trying
to test "every single piece of third-party made software." The only
software for the iPhone is what is on the App Store. You'd think that
they'd at least test the most-used apps, including Instagram.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 17:48, sms wrote:
> On 9/30/2023 4:33 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>
>> Do they test them against the most popular apps as rated on their own App
>> Store?
>
> That is a good point. This is different than a "computer company" trying
> to test "every single piece of third-party made software." The only
> software for the iPhone is what is on the App Store. You'd think that
> they'd at least test the most-used apps, including Instagram.
>

Who says they didn't?

[Jolly Roger]

These Big Brain clowns clearly think that all bugs are always readily
evident with minimal testing.

[candycanearter07]

On 9/30/23 18:01, Your Name wrote:
>> Because people expect polish?? What kind of argument is this? Ship
>> now, fix later is hated by consumers for a reason.
>
> No computer company on the planet does, nor can, terst their devices
> against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware.
> It's not remotely sensible for anyone to expect them to either.
>

Isn't there only 5-10 models of iphones supported?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 19:55, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/30/23 18:01, Your Name wrote:
>>> Because people expect polish?? What kind of argument is this? Ship
>>> now, fix later is hated by consumers for a reason.
>>
>> No computer company on the planet does, nor can, terst their devices
>> against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware.
>> It's not remotely sensible for anyone to expect them to either.
>>
>
> Isn't there only 5-10 models of iphones supported?

You missed half of that sentence:

"against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware"

It's not just the number of iPhones that matters.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-30 11:52, Patrick wrote:

> On 30 Sep 2023 17:46:00 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> with an iOS 17 bug and third-party apps blamed for some
>> of the hot iPhone reports.
>

> Apple blames the 'apps' (and not Apple's lack of testing them).

>
>> "*We have
>> identified a few conditions which can cause iPhone to run warmer than
>> expected.*"
>

> Apple blames the 'conditions' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

>
>> This activity can include the iPhone redownloading apps and bought
>> content,
>

> Apple blames the 'redownloading' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

>
>> as well as a lengthy period of indexing all files for Spotlight
>> search.
>

> Apple blames the 'indexing' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

>>
>> Apple brings up software as a second port of call for the heat issue.
>

> Apple blames the 'software' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

>
>> "*We have also found a bug in iOS 17 that is impacting some users and
>> will be addressed in a software update,*" Apple says without specifying
>> what the bug actually is.
>

> Apple blames the 'iOS 17 bug' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

>
>> "*Another issue involves some recent updates to third-party apps
>

> Apple blames the 'updates' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

>
>> One prominent example of third-party app problems is Instagram,
>

> Apple blames 'Instagram' (and not Apple's lack of testing).

>
>> it seems at least for Instagram that it affects other models
>> too. Some iPhone 14 generation devices had the same heat issues as their
>> iPhone 15 counterparts, again using Instagram and after updating to iOS
>> 17.
>

> Apple blames 'everyone but Apple' (but never Apple's lack of testing).

Arlen... ...stick to one nym, please.

[Your Name]

On 2023-10-01 02:55:25 +0000, candycanearter07 said:
> On 9/30/23 18:01, Your Name wrote:
>>> Because people expect polish?? What kind of argument is this? Ship now,
>>> fix later is hated by consumers for a reason.
>>

>> No computer company on the planet does, nor can, test their devices

>> against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware.
>> It's not remotely sensible for anyone to expect them to either.
>
> Isn't there only 5-10 models of iphones supported?

Maybe, and only a couple of models that a few people reporting the heat
problem with ... but there are millions of apps which Apple cannot
possibly test nor be expected to.

[sms]

On 9/30/2023 4:33 PM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> Do they test them against the most popular apps as rated on their own App
> Store?

What is odd about the "fix" to iOS 17 to address the overheating issue
in the iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max is that if there really is some kind of a
problem with some of the apps that causes overheating by "overloading
the iPhone CPU" then why isn't the same issue occurring with the iPhone
14 Pro/Pro Max with the A16 Bionic?

It's likely that these apps, whatever they are, are causing the A17
Bionic to run at maximum power which is too much for the thermal
solution in the iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max to deal with.

It was also odd to see that claim that the titanium frame will conduct
heat out the phone better than the stainless steel frame in the iPhone
14 Pro/Pro Max since titanium is a poorer thermal conductor. And if it
did conduct heat better then the outside of the phone would get even
hotter but the inside would be cooler.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

>> Everything Apple blamed
>
> Apple didn't blame. They simply explained the cause and promised a fix.

I'm going to ask _adult_ questions of you, Jolly Roger... is that OK?

I wonder if it ever occurs to you that Apple clearly never sufficiently
tested the defective iPhone 15 until the shit hit the fan in the news.

When Apple was forced to test the defective iPhone 15 sufficiently...
Then Apple found a ton of things that were causing the overheating problem.

It doesn't even occur to you, Jolly Roger... that this is what happened?

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

>> the defective iPhone 15i
>
> False.

Hmmmm... if Apple sold it... and if someone bought it... and if it
overheats simply when that someone uses it or even just charges it...
then it's defective.

The fact it's overheating is what makes what they bought defective.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

> You're a clown.

That's your response to the fact that you have no adult response to the
fact that Apple failed to sufficiently test the defective iPhone 15 for
overheating under a variety of circumstances, including Instagram?

>> For example, you said that Apple blamed "Instagram" (among many others).
>
> Liar. I never said that. You did, though.

It's not just Instagram that you said Apple blamed the lack of testing on.
Apple also blamed "indexing" (among many other things Apple blamed).

> I'm actually embarrassed for you.

I wonder if you realize that Apple failed to sufficiently test the
defective iPhone 15 for a variety of overheating causes in iOS 17.

Then.... (just as Apple did with the Facetime bugs children found)...

When Apple was finally forced to test the defective iPhone 15 for the first
time - Apple found tons and tons and tons of causes for the overheating.

None of this occurs to you, Jolly Roger?

[Wally J]

*Hemidactylus* <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote

> We shall see, though I hold no bias here. And people who talk down their
> noses at others as if adulting aren't.

Hi Hemidactylus,

May I ask you an _adult_ question, please?

I wonder if you realize that Apple failed to sufficiently test the
defective iPhone 15 for a variety of overheating causes in iOS 17.

ADULT QUESTION 1: *Do you realize that's exactly what happened?*

Then.... (just as Apple did with the Facetime bugs children found)...

When Apple was finally forced to test the defective iPhone 15 for the first
time - Apple found tons and tons and tons of causes for the overheating.

ADULT QUESTION #2: *Do you realize that's exactly what happened?*

Or are you completely oblivious to all facts about Apple products?

[Alan]

Not the phone...

...which is what you claimed (while also claiming that you only write
facts).

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-10-01 01:32, sms wrote:
> On 9/30/2023 4:33 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Do they test them against the most popular apps as rated on their own App
>> Store?
>
> What is odd about the "fix" to iOS 17 to address the overheating issue
> in the iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max is that if there really is some kind of a
> problem with some of the apps that causes overheating by "overloading
> the iPhone CPU" then why isn't the same issue occurring with the iPhone
> 14 Pro/Pro Max with the A16 Bionic?

You expect the software package to be identical across different devices?

> It's likely that these apps, whatever they are, are causing the A17
> Bionic to run at maximum power which is too much for the thermal
> solution in the iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max to deal with.

Apparently no issue that can't be fixed in both iOS and some 3rd party apps.

>
> It was also odd to see that claim that the titanium frame will conduct
> heat out the phone better than the stainless steel frame in the iPhone
> 14 Pro/Pro Max since titanium is a poorer thermal conductor. And if it
> did conduct heat better then the outside of the phone would get even
> hotter but the inside would be cooler.

Let's see. There are a range of stainless steel alloys with varying
degrees of thermal conductivity. Per Apple they use "Surgical grade"
stainless in the iPhone 14. ( * ) below.

SS - 304 : 14.4 W/(mK)
SS - 347 : 14.3 W/(mK)
SS - 316 : 16.3 W/(mK) *
SS - 440 : 24.2 W/(mK) *
SS - 420 : 24.9 W/(mK) *

Titanium: 24.5 W/(mK) - better than SS 304,347 and 316. Same as 440
and 420.

This is in Watts per metre-Kelvin. Thus the thicker the material, less
the conductivity (obviously). For you non-metric folks, a Kelvin is a
difference of 1°C with 0K at absolute 0.

Finding 1)
So, Titanium is a better heat conductor in the kinds of SS that Apple
likly used (the 440/420 are very hard SS so not ones you'd want to
manufacture at large volume). And even if you used 440 or 420 it would
be the same thermal conductivity as Titanium.

*Denotes so-called "Surgical steel" - although there is no formal
definition of such.

Issue 2)
Further, It's not so much the thermal conductivity that matters as the
way the thermal management is designed: placing the hot components where
their heat has a pathway to the outside via conducting material or other
means.

Issue 3)
Further, since Titanium is stronger, you may need less thickness, thus
the heat transits across less of it - so more conductivity. This is
speculation on my part..

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

[Alan Browne]

SS - 630 : 18.4 W/(mK) * // also referred to as "17-4".

> Titanium:  24.5 W/(mK) - better than SS 304,347,316 630.  Same as 440

[Wally J]

badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote

> Why should they put all those resources into testing their software when

> there are millions of people available to do it for free? ItĄŚs not like

> anyone is going to stop using the iPhone if they found a bug. The only way

> most people would drop Apple is if they started losing trust in themĄK

Hi badgolferman,

I agree with what you have surmised based on current & past Apple history.

To an intelligent adult, the source of the defect is patently obvious.
*Apple forgot to test the defective iPhone 15 before selling it*
*Again*
*Then... Apple _blamed_ everyone but themselves for the defects!*
*Again*

We both own adult cognition which can recognize patterns where Apple never
changes the fact they spend their money on MARKETING & not on engineering.

I can't count the number of times Apple has released a completely defective
product which Apple only looked at _after the shit hit the fan_ in news.

Take the Facetime bugs that a mere kid found. Remember that? When Apple
finally looked at Facetime for the first time - they found scores of holes.

Same thing when Apple finally looked at their defective power-delivery
(where they tried to hide their design incompetence & got caught doing it).

It's no different here in that it's the _same pattern_ Apple always uses.

1. First Apple releases an untested (defective in this case) product.
2. Then the shit hits the fan (in the news).
3. Only then does Apple even _bother_ to think about testing the product.

Once Apple takes a quick look at the product, Apple finds issues
_everywhere_ (from Instagram to indexing to iOS 17 to charging, etc.).

Can you believe that?

Everything causes this defective iPhone to overheat according to Apple.
a. Instagram
b. Indexing
c. Charging
d. Gaming
e. Updating
etc.

If _that_ many diverse things cause these defective iPhones to overheat,
then it's pretty darn clear Apple did not sufficiently test the device.

A. Apple belatedly only tested it _after_ the shit hit the fan, and,
B. even then, Apple *blamed everyone but themselves* for the defects.

To an intelligent adult, the source of the defect is patently obvious.
*Apple forgot to test the defective iPhone 15 before selling it*

[Wally J]

Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote

>>> It's likely that these apps, whatever they are, are causing the A17
>>> Bionic to run at maximum power which is too much for the thermal
>>> solution in the iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max to deal with.
>>
>> Apparently no issue that can't be fixed in both iOS and some 3rd party
>> apps.

We can't count the number of times Apple has released a defective product
which Apple only looked at well _after the shit hit the fan_ in news.

Take the Facetime bugs that a mere kid found. Remember that? When Apple
finally looked at Facetime for the first time - they found scores of holes.

Same thing when Apple finally looked at their defective power-delivery
(where they tried to hide their design incompetence & got caught doing it).

It's no different here in that it's the _same pattern_ Apple always uses.

1. First Apple releases an untested (defective in this case) product.

2. Then, _after_ people pay for it, the shit hits the fan (in the news).

[Jolly Roger]

fAkE nEwS! FuCk YoUr ScIeNcE! Do YoUr OwN rEsEaRcH!!1! *spittle*

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-10-01, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> You're a clown.
>
> That's your response

Yes, because you are a clown.

>>> For example, you said that Apple blamed "Instagram" (among many others).
>>
>> Liar. I never said that. You did, though.
>
> It's not just Instagram that you said Apple blamed

Weak lies are all you have, Arlen. You're truly pathetic.

>> I'm actually embarrassed for you.
>

> Blah blah blah blah...

Bye now.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

>> That's your response
>
> Yes, because you are a clown.

It's interesting that the adults provide facts and the iKooks can't.

The facts about Apple products are always what the iKooks can't stand.
1. Apple produced a defective iPhone.
2. The fact it's overheating is the defect.
3. Apple never even once tested the iPhone for that defect.

Then... when the shit hit the fan such that Apple had to act...
A. Apple (for the first time!) tested the defective iPhone for overheating.
B. And Apple found (much to their surprise) lots & lots of reasons for it.
C. Such that Apple instantly _blamed everyone but Apple_ for those defects.

Not only are those incontrovertible facts about what happened, but the fact
is the iKooks _hate_ that adults not only noticed - but that adults
remembered this is a classic pattern for Apple over the years.

a. Apple _never sufficiently tested_ the defective iPhones
b. Apple was eventually _forced to test_ the defective iPhones
c. Apple _blamed everyone but Apple_ for the defects in those iPhones.

Such is Apple.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

>> Thank you for admitting out loud Apple doesn¢t test their software.
>
> He very clearly didn't say they don't test.

*Apple themselves openly admitted they didn't test it, JR*

An actual adult would instantly cognate that the iPhones are overheating,
and, when Apple was forced to look at why - Apple found myriad reasons.

The sheer astoundingly huge plethora of reasons Apple provided shows rather
clearly that there is zero chance Apple had ever sufficiently tested them.

Add that obvious fact to the fact that this happens all the time with Apple
such that it's clear Apple did NOT sufficiently test the defective iPhones.

Again.

[Alan]

On 2023-10-01 11:58, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> That's your response
>>
>> Yes, because you are a clown.
>
> It's interesting that the adults provide facts and the iKooks can't.

Please.

You're a clown.

That's a fact.

[Alan]

On 2023-10-01 12:06, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>

>>> Thank you for admitting out loud Apple doesn┤ test their software.

>>
>> He very clearly didn't say they don't test.
>
> *Apple themselves openly admitted they didn't test it, JR*

No, they did not, Clown.

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

>> It is because there are "millions of people" using their iPhones in
>> millions of different ways that there is no possible way that Apple
>> could test for all possible problems.
>
> It's very obvious neither badgolferman or Arlen (Wally) have ever worked
> professionally in a software team in charge of deploying software to
> massive numbers of heterogeneous clients.

Hehhehheh... ah... but we have.

Both of us have.

With extremely complicated software, Jolly Roger.

It's _you_ who hasn't ever worked with software as complicated as the
military grade stuff both badgolferman and I worked on for decades.

the most complex software you've ever touched, JR, is the toy Apple
operating systems - which have a millionth of the lines of code of teh
stuff badgolferman and I worked on for decades.

It's funny though that you think because we understand what happened, and
because you _hate_ what happened, that you blame us for what Apple did.

More to the point - you blame us for what Apple did NOT do.
*HINT: Apple forgot to sufficiently test the defective iPhones*

Again.

[Wally J]

Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote

>> Because people expect polish?? What kind of argument is this? Ship now,
>> fix later is hated by consumers for a reason.
>

> No computer company on the planet does, nor can, terst their devices

> against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware.
> It's not remotely sensible for anyone to expect them to either.

*All these excuses for a defective product mean Apple forgot to test it.*
*Again*

Maybe Your Name can be excused for ignorance in that Your Name probably
didn't get a chance yet to read all the excuses Apple recently provided.

How many things did Apple blame for the overheating anyway?
*A dozen? Two dozen? Three dozen?*

*How many _different_ things did Apple again forget to test this time?*

[Patrick]

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 17:48:50 -0700, sms wrote:
>> Do they test them against the most popular apps as rated on their own App
>> Store?
>
> That is a good point. This is different than a "computer company" trying
> to test "every single piece of third-party made software." The only
> software for the iPhone is what is on the App Store. You'd think that
> they'd at least test the most-used apps, including Instagram.

You'd think they'd test not only Instagram, but their own iOS 17 too.
They didn't.

[Patrick]

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 21:55:25 -0500, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> Because people expect polish?? What kind of argument is this? Ship
>>> now, fix later is hated by consumers for a reason.
>>
>> No computer company on the planet does, nor can, terst their devices
>> against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware.
>> It's not remotely sensible for anyone to expect them to either.
>>
>
> Isn't there only 5-10 models of iphones supported?

Not only are there a puny set of models but the software on them is limited
to the App Store where apparently Apple didn't know Instagram even existed.

[Patrick]

On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 17:46:58 +1300, Your Name wrote:
>>>> Because people expect polish?? What kind of argument is this? Ship now,
>>>> fix later is hated by consumers for a reason.
>>>
>>> No computer company on the planet does, nor can, test their devices
>>> against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware.
>>> It's not remotely sensible for anyone to expect them to either.
>>
>> Isn't there only 5-10 models of iphones supported?
>
> Maybe, and only a couple of models that a few people reporting the heat
> problem with ... but there are millions of apps which Apple cannot
> possibly test nor be expected to.

Damn Instagram.

Why is it always the app that nobody uses that makes the iPhone overheat.

[Alan]

On 2023-10-01 12:13, Wally J wrote:
> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote
>
>>> Because people expect polish?? What kind of argument is this? Ship now,
>>> fix later is hated by consumers for a reason.
>>
>> No computer company on the planet does, nor can, terst their devices
>> against every single piece of third-party made software and hardware.
>> It's not remotely sensible for anyone to expect them to either.
>
> *All these excuses for a defective product mean Apple forgot to test it.*

No, clown.

It doesn't.

[Wolf Greenblatt]

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 17:11:35 -0700, sms wrote:

>> Why should they put all those resources into testing their software when
>> there are millions of people available to do it for free?
>

> <snip>
>
> There is just no way that they could test all the different apps in all
> the different usage scenarios. It's expected that there will be issues
> that don't turn up until the devices are in the hands of a very large
> number of users.

Did you count the number of things that Apple didn't test until now?

> What will be interesting to see is if the A17 benchmarks change once iOS
> 17 is updated to address overheating.

Of course it will.
Apple cares so much about you that they'll again "extend the life" for you.

> Kuo stated that they'd have to
> throttle the CPU in order to address the overheating, in which case the
> benchmarks could be affected.

The benchmarks are bogus.
Even more so now that the iPhone performance will require cutting.

> "Those who must not be named" insisted
> that there is no issue because not every user has reported overheating,
> though they now are aware that the issue is real. The truth will come
> out soon enough.

Apple already said they have identified many causes for the overheating.
Which means they are overheating.
Which means anyone saying they're not is disagreeing with Apple's findings.

[Alan]

Except no one has denied that... ...Clown.

[sms]

iOS 17 has been out for a while. I'm on the Beta program so I've been
running it for quite a while. There haven't been any issues, that I have
heard of, with Instagram running on iOS 17 on earlier iPhone models.

There are definitely some apps out there that will max out the CPU if
they are allowed to do so, even when they are not performing what would
appear to be CPU intensive tasks. Instagram is one such app and it has
the same issue on Android devices.

Apparently there are ways for iOS to prevent excessive CPU usage and
ways to design the app to prevent excessive CPU usage, see
<https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/123975>. These come at the
expense of performance.

Since it's not possible to check over 1.6 million apps for using
excessive resources the solution is to stop the A17 Bionic from getting
so hot in the first place. Modifying the throttling temperature points
would do this. There's also the issue of the titanium frame having
poorer thermal conductivity which means more heat is being conducted out
through the glass back.

[Frankie]

On 1/10/2023, sms wrote:

> These come at the expense of performance.

The only way Apple can reduce overheating is at the expense of performance.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-10-01, Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> It is because there are "millions of people" using their iPhones in
>>> millions of different ways that there is no possible way that Apple
>>> could test for all possible problems.
>>
>> It's very obvious neither badgolferman or Arlen (Wally) have ever
>> worked professionally in a software team in charge of deploying
>> software to massive numbers of heterogeneous clients.
>
> Hehhehheh... ah... but we have.
>
> Both of us have.

No, you very clearly haven't.

[Jolly Roger]

Yes, yes. Fixing the bug that is causing excess resource usage is not an
option, guys. Frankie says so.

The pure idiocy on display here is staggering.

[sms]

On 10/1/2023 12:20 PM, Patrick wrote:

<snip>

> Damn Instagram.
>
> Why is it always the app that nobody uses that makes the iPhone overheat.

LOL, here are the iOS apps that are downloaded the most:
1. TikTok
2. Instagram
3. Facebook
4. WhatsApp
5. Telegram

I did see a complaint that Instagram causes Android phones to heat up as
well. It seems like Instagram will just use as much CPU power as it can
get. This is not really a bug in Instagram, the operating system should
be limiting the amount of resources that an app can consume.

[Alan Browne]

Since the fix is bug fixes in iOS and some apps, would you care to
elaborate?

[Wally J]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

> No, you very clearly haven't.

Well, both badgolferman and I have said we've worked on military grade
software for decades but you can choose to disbelieve what we say.

What you can't say is that we don't understand what happened, which is
a. Apple forgot to test the iPhone 15 for causes of overheating
b. When the shit hit the fan - only then did Apple bother to test it
c. After testing - Apple said it was tons (and tons!) of things that did it

Meaning...

*Apple forgot to sufficiently test the iPhone*

Again.

Worse...

*Apple is almost certainly going to decrease performance*

Because... (you fill in the blanks, Jolly Roger)...

ADULT QUESTION FOR JOLLY ROGER:

*How will Apple lower heat output from a CPU running too fast?*

[Frankie]

On 1/10/2023, Alan Browne wrote:

>>> These come at the expense of performance.
>>
>> The only way Apple can reduce overheating is at the expense of performance.
>
> Since the fix is bug fixes in iOS and some apps, would you care to
> elaborate?

The only way Apple can lower the heat output is to lower performance.
That means all the benchmarks to date are no longer valid.
They never were valid.

Apple sold an inherently untested product which turned out to be defective.
The benchmark results are on that defective product.

It's fast. But too hot.

The non-defective iPhone will be cooler.
And slower.

There is no other way to solve the problem without a complete hardware
redesign (which isn't what Apple said they would do to fix the problem).

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-10-01 16:38, sms wrote:
> On 10/1/2023 12:20 PM, Patrick wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Damn Instagram.
>>
>> Why is it always the app that nobody uses that makes the iPhone overheat.
>
> LOL, here are the iOS apps that are downloaded the most:
> 1. TikTok
> 2. Instagram
> 3. Facebook
> 4. WhatsApp
> 5. Telegram
>
> I did see a complaint that Instagram causes Android phones to heat up as
> well. It seems like Instagram will just use as much CPU power as it can
> get. This is not really a bug in Instagram, the operating system should
> be limiting the amount of resources that an app can consume.

Not at all. The OS cannot tell if badly written software is doing
something useless driving up power consumption.

Simple example - if there is a loop that goes

double x = 33333;

while (1) {
x = 4 * atan(1) / (44.7777 / x);
if (x < 0.002) {
x = 33333;
}
}

The OS would not know it was doing useless work and the app would run
until pre-emption ... and resume the endless loop when the thread was
re-turned. This is an over-simplified example but gets to the gist of it.

So a good app would not hog thread time if it had no real work to do,
but instead would call for a Thread Sleep.

In C: usleep(10000); // 10 msec

(Note there are a lot of "sleep" variants depending on platform.

eg: This would likely be: "Thread.sleep(forTimeInterval: 0.010)" in
Swift 2 the iOS "preferred" language)

So, you're talking out of your hat. Again.

[Alan]

Arlen... ...stop changing nyms, you Clown.

[Alan]

On 2023-10-01 14:13, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> No, you very clearly haven't.
>
> Well, both badgolferman and I have said we've worked on military grade
> software for decades but you can choose to disbelieve what we say.

That's convenient, Clown...

...because we do so choose.

[candycanearter07]

On 10/1/23 14:09, Wally J wrote:
> It's _you_ who hasn't ever worked with software as complicated as the
> military grade stuff both badgolferman and I worked on for decades.

You've coded operating systems?? That's awesome!
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom